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PropanElgen
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Posted - 2003.10.05 18:31:00 -
[61]
Ahhh. Potential gamekiller this is.
All the angels and the puny men of god looked away...
Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.10.05 19:18:00 -
[62]
 Quote:
Ahhh. Potential gamekiller this is.
What a wonderfully insightful addition you have made to this discussion. I doubt you've even read a quarter of the replies, as you might have something more to say than adding a completely useless remark that says and explains nothing.
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Harliquin
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Posted - 2003.10.05 20:42:00 -
[63]
Quote:
You keep saying people want to control the market. You keep ignoring the fact that in order to control the market you have to put forth some effort. Right now the market is in the crapper because people are controlling it with next to no effort. It takes no effort for someone to manufacture in a single location, load up the goods into industrials and undercut everyone in 5 different regions.
No I think you are getting confused, in one breath your saying i'm ignoring the fact it takes effort to control the market (I'm not) then the next line says ppl are controlling the market with little or no effort - well which is it?
Alternativly if you & your corp buddies put in a little effort you could visit all 5 regions and buy up all the stuff being flogged cheaper than yours - then re-market it at your price.
But hey that requires a weeny bit of effort on all you whining corps part - much better to bring in protectionism and carve out the five regions between the mega-corps eh????
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.05 20:56:00 -
[64]
Quote:
Quote:
You keep saying people want to control the market. You keep ignoring the fact that in order to control the market you have to put forth some effort. Right now the market is in the crapper because people are controlling it with next to no effort. It takes no effort for someone to manufacture in a single location, load up the goods into industrials and undercut everyone in 5 different regions.
No I think you are getting confused, in one breath your saying i'm ignoring the fact it takes effort to control the market (I'm not) then the next line says ppl are controlling the market with little or no effort - well which is it?
Alternativly if you & your corp buddies put in a little effort you could visit all 5 regions and buy up all the stuff being flogged cheaper than yours - then re-market it at your price.
But hey that requires a weeny bit of effort on all you whining corps part - much better to bring in protectionism and carve out the five regions between the mega-corps eh????
Which is it? Sorry I wasn't clear. Currently all the effort needed to control the market in several regions is manufacture more and hop a highway. You can attempt the "Buy out and reprice" method, but you'll find that really doesn't work as whoever you bought out will thank you and manufacture more to the point you can't buy out them out. But you'll have a hell of a stockpile.
After the implementation of tolls, the situation will not change in a person's local region much. If they're capable of controlling the market locally where they manufacture, they will continue to do so easily. It might improve slightly as remote manufacturers are removed from the market (like a friend of mine who used to export MWD from Metropolis to Genesis) providing for new manufacturing lines to spring up locally.
It will definately hinder region specific loot from underpricing the same loot being produced locally. Which again provide local manufacturers the opportunity to go get the blueprint and create a local manufacturing line for those products.
But if a person who has their manufacturing base setup in Metropolis wishes to control the price of 650mm Artillery all the way to Tash Murkon, they will have to put forth an extraordinary amount of effort to bypass the highway tolls and stay profitable. They will have to create a manufacturing base in those regions, dividing their manpower and attention which will allow for perceptive people to profit if they slip. Or they will have to abandon the idea and give those players those regions a chance to manufacture themselves.
The effects on the trade goods market don't need such an explanation, do they?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Harliquin
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Posted - 2003.10.05 21:47:00 -
[65]
Jash, I really think we are going to have to agree to differ on this one, our views on the subject are diametrically opposed.
I can see your points but I cannot agree based on your thinking and my understanding of the effects the changes will have.
The only thing I think we can both agree on is whatever they decide to do one of us will be happ the other won't
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.05 21:54:00 -
[66]
Quote:
Jash, I really think we are going to have to agree to differ on this one, our views on the subject are diametrically opposed.
I can see your points but I cannot agree based on your thinking and my understanding of the effects the changes will have.
The only thing I think we can both agree on is whatever they decide to do one of us will be happ the other won't
Fair enough. Agreeing to disagree is easy enough given your style of discussing the matter (lack of flames, childish attempts to insult, presenting arguments with supporting reasons) 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Qandor
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Posted - 2003.10.05 21:54:00 -
[67]
Quote:
5 million isk toll is really the only way to make tolls a viable option.
Let's see. It cost 10,000 isk per month to rent a station office with unlimited storage and hangar space and we should have a toll booth charge 5 million isk? I'll go along with the 5 million isk toll, if they just raise office prices to 100 million isk per month. We need to keep things in balance. 
There isn't going to be any 5 million isk toll or 1 million isk toll either. If they were going to go that far they would just remove the highway system which apparently (thank god) they aren't prepared to do. So let's just see how this shakes out. There will be plenty of time for whining afterwards.
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.10.05 22:02:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Cao Cao on 05/10/2003 22:04:10
Quote:
Quote:
5 million isk toll is really the only way to make tolls a viable option.
Let's see. It cost 10,000 isk per month to rent a station office with unlimited storage and hangar space and we should have a toll booth charge 5 million isk? I'll go along with the 5 million isk toll, if they just raise office prices to 100 million isk per month. We need to keep things in balance.
There isn't going to be any 5 million isk toll or 1 million isk toll either. If they were going to go that far they would just remove the highway system which apparently (thank god) they aren't prepared to do. So let's just see how this shakes out. There will be plenty of time for whining afterwards.
That's my point. They will likely make it a 50k toll at which point it is completely useless. Just restrict the damn things to shuttles or remove them altogether.
EDIT: on second thought, maybe they will be daring enough to implement the 5 million isk toll. After all, it is possible to go from Amarr homeworld to Minmatar homeworld in about 5 minutes, both of which are mortal enemies to each other.
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Lliad
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Posted - 2003.10.05 22:04:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Lliad on 05/10/2003 22:04:35
The only reason office rent is so low is to allow the small corps to rent it. I would have no problem if you put it to 100mil a month. But then only a small number of corps could afford it.
Wheras with the traveling the superhighway is optional so they can introduce any price they want. And i have re-thought my pricing.
shuttles should be free.
frigates probally 500k ish
1 mil for cruisers
3 mil for bs
5 mil for indys.
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Xelios
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Posted - 2003.10.05 22:05:00 -
[70]
If they are removed altogether I'm quitting EVE today, I have no intention of spending 3+ hours a day jumping from system to system just to pick up a few items and I'll even go so far as to say I'm not the only one who feels this way.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.05 22:06:00 -
[71]
Quote:
Quote:
5 million isk toll is really the only way to make tolls a viable option.
Let's see. It cost 10,000 isk per month to rent a station office with unlimited storage and hangar space and we should have a toll booth charge 5 million isk? I'll go along with the 5 million isk toll, if they just raise office prices to 100 million isk per month. We need to keep things in balance.
There isn't going to be any 5 million isk toll or 1 million isk toll either. If they were going to go that far they would just remove the highway system which apparently (thank god) they aren't prepared to do. So let's just see how this shakes out. There will be plenty of time for whining afterwards.
Heh...you don't want me to start that thread do you? 10k per month for office rent is stupidly low and part of the reason why getting offices in good locations is a pain in the ass. Corps have offices they haven't seen in months. And they have no incentive to fly out to them and release them at 10k isk per month. Probably don't even notice the bill when paying others.
But unless the toll carries a fairly good sting to it per jump, it'll solve nothing. The cries about the n00bs is a smokescreen. How many new players have a ship where the toll would become prohibitive based on its mass? Mammoths and other top tier industrials are the biggest vessels if I'm not mistaken. You don't just hop into a Mammoth straight from character creation.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Lliad
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Posted - 2003.10.05 22:08:00 -
[72]
Quote:
If they are removed altogether I'm quitting EVE today, I have no intention of spending 3+ hours a day jumping from system to system just to pick up a few items and I'll even go so far as to say I'm not the only one who feels this way.
why do you travel so much? if you are buying things all the time, you must be buying pure crap. Buy the bp instead and make your own. And even with the gates i still travel upwards of 60 jumps a day. it takes like 20 mins to jump 30 gates. Hardly much.
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Harliquin
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Posted - 2003.10.05 22:09:00 -
[73]
Quote:
Fair enough. Agreeing to disagree is easy enough given your style of discussing the matter (lack of flames, childish attempts to insult, presenting arguments with supporting reasons)
Indeed - It does seem to be a fairly emotive subject though 
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Xelios
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Posted - 2003.10.05 22:15:00 -
[74]
Lliad, were you here at release? The reason they put in the superhighway gates is because everyone was annoyed at the travel time. 30 jumps takes longer than 20 minutes in anything but a shuttle, and you can't always drive a shuttle around. And no I'm not buying pure crap, I'm buying things like rare pirate loot, mostly things off the trade channel, things that you can't just buy on the market.
Like I said, I've spent a month without highway gates before and it's not something I'll do again. I'm paying for this game to have fun, not to stare at the screen for an hour while I make the 60 jump trip to Molden Heath or wherever it is I need to go.
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Lliad
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Posted - 2003.10.05 22:18:00 -
[75]
Quote:
Lliad, were you here at release? The reason they put in the superhighway gates is because everyone was annoyed at the travel time. 30 jumps takes longer than 20 minutes in anything but a shuttle, and you can't always drive a shuttle around. And no I'm not buying pure crap, I'm buying things like rare pirate loot, mostly things off the trade channel, things that you can't just buy on the market.
Like I said, I've spent a month without highway gates before and it's not something I'll do again. I'm paying for this game to have fun, not to stare at the screen for an hour while I make the 60 jump trip to Molden Heath or wherever it is I need to go.
Yes i was hear at release. And anyone intending to do long jump trips can make their ship go much faster than a shuttle. so 30 jumps in 20 mins is a perfectly realistic time. Also why dont you just save your isk and do it once a month. Or else have some fun and go get it yourself for free.
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Cptn Stardust
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Posted - 2003.10.05 22:42:00 -
[76]
i would go against the toll idea, unless they could come up with a good idea 'what all that toll money is spent on'
in the meantime, i favour:
getting rid of the highway systems
putting 0.0 dangerous space in-between the empire regions
player piracy was always meant to be a part of this game, and why should all the player pirates be kicked out to 0.0 systems (there ain't hardly anything out there) - They can't pirate out there, just fight amongst other pirate corps
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Agent Red
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Posted - 2003.10.05 22:50:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Agent Red on 05/10/2003 22:50:42
Quote:
i would go against the toll idea, unless they could come up with a good idea 'what all that toll money is spent on'
i pay $8 every time i cross the george washington bridge to nyc. god knows where all that money goes. the answer is into the black hole called government "revenue."
kthx
agent red |
Fester Addams
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Posted - 2003.10.06 00:14:00 -
[78]
Ok, a bunch of people want there to be a toll on the super highways.
Fair enough however like most people agree if there is to be a toll it has to be large enough for people to actually care.
Lets say they put the toll at 5k, noone not even the newbies will care, sure its isk but noone travels enough to make such a charge anything to bother about.
Lets say its 50k, this will not affect 90% of the player population one bit, Im not wealthy like many other players but I would cough upp the 50k for the convenience of it being one jump rather than 10, the last 10% however will be devastated, the newbies, untill you can get a cruiser 50k is alot of cash, why block them out.
Then its the fantasy numbers, 500k, 5M and so on... why would there be such a charge, its not reasonable.
So in short, IF and I do say if a toll is implemented it will become an anoyance but nothing of real importance to all but the new players and why punish them?
My guess is there will be no tolls.
Naturaly if you look at some of the posts you can see alternate motives.
Easiest one to spot is pirates wanting the highway systems shut down as then people would have to fly past a number of less secure systems and thus become potential targets for their piracy...
It is understandable that they are frustrated that the actions of a few of them has created the situation we have today with high restrictions on their activityhowever I cant see why I should have to spend 4-5hrs or more going the scenic route when the game has already had superhighways implemented just to satisfy their bloodlust.
As for the idea with 0.0 space between the "empires", Im all for that IF the 0.0 systems are not chokepoints like the EvE universe is created now. Now if you locate a strategicly well placed system then you can be sure it has the lowest security rating there is (with the exeption of the superhighways).
Then we have the argument that the superhighways are killing the market, this is false, the market is flawed on the lowest level, the superhighways do very little to worsen that situation and most of us know this.
so what have we, implement a toll to make life alot harder for the players that are harming noone in favor of players who vocaly state that the object of their game is to attack other players... Im sorry pirates you have no case.
My guess is there will be no toll on account of the new players.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.06 00:20:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Jash Illian on 06/10/2003 00:21:33
Quote:
...
My guess is there will be no toll on account of the new players.
Quote:
[ 2003.10.01 23:00:45 ] Jash Illian > Is anything planned to restrict 'Highway' access to smaller ships, such as shuttles, to counter the negative effects the highways are having on the market? (homogenization of market prices, the limited demand across multiple regions now easily accessible by the same manufacturers, the trade market being cornered by fewer individuals due to far less travel time).
[ 2003.10.01 23:01:56 ] TomB > You want that shuttles don't have access to the Highway jumps?
[ 2003.10.01 23:02:26 ] Jash Illian > actually I'd prefer if only shuttles had access to the highways. the regions are too close together now
[ 2003.10.01 23:02:49 ] TomB > Ok, yes we have plans for something like that
[ 2003.10.01 23:03:10 ] TomB > But not really restricting specific ships for it
[ 2003.10.01 23:03:26 ] TomB > But rather toll players for using them, based on mass of the ship.
The ships a new player has access to are miniscule in terms of mass.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
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