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Timm3h
Blue-Fire
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 19:42:00 -
[151] - Quote
The most disappointing aspect of the wormhole changes is that they were formulated almost exclusively by people living in nullsec, and it shows.
Before wormholes, people experienced lawless space, or nullsec. "Lawless" might have been the appropriate word for the first handful of years, but you can tell by looking at it today that 0.0 is far from lawless. With the exception of Providence (and possibly another area I'm missing), there is one ultimate law:
1) If it isn't blue, shoot it.
The folks that have played the game/lived in the region long enough have seen how 0.0 has developed, and the thing they have noticed above all else is that it seems to be slowing down. A region of space known for its lack of laws seems a lot less chaotic than we expected it to be. When I think lawlessness, I think of a couple of bad dudes looking for a good time, rolling through a bunch of gates just looking for something or someone to kill. We don't get that nearly as often as we should, because the law states "If it isn't blue, shoot it". However, when you live in nullsec these days, what isn't blue? Roaming gangs floating around and creating chaos do not happen (often enough), because the proliferation of supercapitals and the mechanics of a sov grind do not reward the concept of lawlessness. The only thing that is rewarded in nullsec is the blob: as the number of supercapitals continues to climb, player skill will cease to be a necessity and all that will remain is a contest of numbers.
Okay, so I wasted your time talking about something that isn't wormholes. What does any of that have to do with wormholes? Well, until a few days ago, none of it had to do with wormholes. Wormholes too were initially showcased wielding the same lawlessness associated with nullsec, and to what looks like CCP's sorrow, ended up rather far away from anything that could be described as the lawless they had hoped for. The only law of wormholes is that content is lifeblood, and there are a handful of ways to generate content in wormholes. The most obvious (especially these past few days with all of the uproar about jump distance changes) is rolling your holes. For the vast majority of veteran wormholers, rolling your static is (was) the go-to content generator. A few guys in big ships would pop the hole, and the group waits to find the next static and hopefully the PvP beyond it.
With 3 of the changes to wormholes this patch (jump distance, more wandering wormholes, low-mass/high-limit regen holes), W-Space ceased to be an area viable for small or medium-sized corporations. The smaller corporations that want to roll a hole due to either being overwhelmed by a larger entity or having found no content at all are now at an extreme disadvantage. To larger corporations/alliances, this variance in jump distance is a minor speed bump on the way to rolling a hole in search of content because these people will always have enough to defend their roll squad. Smaller corporations that do not have the man power to protect vulnerable assets as they roll a hole away will cease doing so, which causes content creation to be impossible for the most part. Initially, more wandering wormholes seems to be the solution to hole rolling being denied to smaller groups. Having more access points means more possibilities for content somewhere across a chain, but this also creates a tremendous workload for smaller groups.
I know a handful of people spread across multiple small corps residing in wormholes, and they all report the same thing: the new amount of wandering holes is wearing them down very quickly. When you're one of two or three online, and the only one scanning out hole connections in search of content, it could take hours to find something to fight. Smaller corps undoubtedly have a thinner engagement profile due to numbers, which means that if you were lucky enough to find something to fight, you need to be even luckier to have it be something small enough for you and your mates to engage. Scanning for hours on end is not the content we are looking for; gameplay like that is readily available in K-Space, and I'm sure most if not all of the people living in wormholes are doing so because they wan't something that isn't K-Space. Finally, the new low-mass holes. These, above anything else, are the most dangerous to small corporations in search of content. Not because of their restrictions, as nobody will be sieging towers using frigates and destroyers; it is their allowances that make them such deadly opponents of small group content. A hole that is virtually impossible to roll means that the larger group has an impossible-to-close connection to a smaller group, where the little corp will be scouted and promptly blobbed if they attempt to move out of their force fields to find content that's more their size. None of this is exciting gameplay, for any party involved. The small groups that can't handle it will stay inside of their fields, waiting for the larger groups to get bored and roll their own holes. The larger groups will keep hunting, and the smaller groups will keep hiding. People will get bored, and holes will be left behind in favor of the K-Space these players were so excited to get away from. Only the largest groups will be left hunting for content, anything less than the largest having been pushed out due to a lack of content their size. W-Space will become a region where you play with the biggest, or you don't play at all.
Sound familiar? |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
474
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 20:01:00 -
[152] - Quote
Jez Amatin wrote:Spugg Galdon wrote:Gosti Kahanid wrote:We are a small WH-Corp living in a C5. At the moment we have 10 Pilots logged in max.
For the last few days we experimented how to close C6 and 0.0-WHs with less risk as possible. To close those, we use a Dread, an Orca and a Battleship. Both Dread and Orca are now fitted with 3-4 Overdrives and a 100MN MWD. It-¦s important that the Dread jumps first so he doesn-¦t spawn more than 15km away from the WH. With its MWD on it flies about 400m/s so he reaches jumprange in about 30 seconds. Orca, as a smaller/lighter Ship is even faster.
So after adapting a little bit we can still close a WH in about 30 Seconds. I really don-¦t see the big problem here. Ok, if someone was already lurking at a WH then you have a problem with your Dread 10km away from jumprange, but this was already a risk before the change. The only difference now ist that the Dread will be trapped on the other side, but this is the Risk when living in a WH... This guy gets it.... everyone else is crying like babies so wat if ur in a lowclass wh with no cap support, and u try closing a C5 wh in battleships, knowing u can be dread blapped once u spawn too far from the hole. of course, its so much easier to go all HTFU when as far as i can tell you do very little / no pvp in w-space. Im in agreement we need to be patient to see how changes play out, but there are some serious concerns that have not been addressed. If we wait for lots of corps to leave then it will make w-space more empty than it already is, and as far as i can tell i cant see corps queuing up to move in.
As I said before, I used to live in a WH and you don't need to use BS's.
A HIC fitted with a 100MN AB and a bubble has an enormous mass for a cruiser.
Online the bubble and the AB and your mass blooms. Jump through the WH. Rinse and repeat. You also get to control the mass of you ship going through very well which is handy. Your ship is also very fast compared to a BS and super tanky. So you can burn back to the WH easily.
Adpation is easy. |
Anize Oramara
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
263
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 20:10:00 -
[153] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:Jez Amatin wrote:Spugg Galdon wrote:Gosti Kahanid wrote:We are a small WH-Corp living in a C5. At the moment we have 10 Pilots logged in max.
For the last few days we experimented how to close C6 and 0.0-WHs with less risk as possible. To close those, we use a Dread, an Orca and a Battleship. Both Dread and Orca are now fitted with 3-4 Overdrives and a 100MN MWD. It-¦s important that the Dread jumps first so he doesn-¦t spawn more than 15km away from the WH. With its MWD on it flies about 400m/s so he reaches jumprange in about 30 seconds. Orca, as a smaller/lighter Ship is even faster.
So after adapting a little bit we can still close a WH in about 30 Seconds. I really don-¦t see the big problem here. Ok, if someone was already lurking at a WH then you have a problem with your Dread 10km away from jumprange, but this was already a risk before the change. The only difference now ist that the Dread will be trapped on the other side, but this is the Risk when living in a WH... This guy gets it.... everyone else is crying like babies so wat if ur in a lowclass wh with no cap support, and u try closing a C5 wh in battleships, knowing u can be dread blapped once u spawn too far from the hole. of course, its so much easier to go all HTFU when as far as i can tell you do very little / no pvp in w-space. Im in agreement we need to be patient to see how changes play out, but there are some serious concerns that have not been addressed. If we wait for lots of corps to leave then it will make w-space more empty than it already is, and as far as i can tell i cant see corps queuing up to move in. As I said before, I used to live in a WH and you don't need to use BS's. A HIC fitted with a 100MN AB and a bubble has an enormous mass for a cruiser. Online the bubble and the AB and your mass blooms. Jump through the WH. Rinse and repeat. You also get to control the mass of you ship going through very well which is handy. Your ship is also very fast compared to a BS and super tanky. So you can burn back to the WH easily. Adpation is easy. Actually, no, if you online the bubble your mass goes DOWN. a 100mn prop mod only gives you 50mill. a cruiser, plated is around 20.
A prop mod BS is 150mill+ so a 100mn HIC is half that of a BS.
A C5/C6 WH is 3 BILLION mass.
SO thats 40/20 trips with a HIC and 20/10 with a BS.
Take into account 5min polarization, unless of course you have 20 HIC pilots online, it will take 1h 40min to collapse a hole.
I'm going to go with no. |
Anize Oramara
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
265
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 21:04:00 -
[154] - Quote
So I find this rather interesting. CCP Falcon asked us to give feedback in this thread because I dunno, the other official feedback thread wasn't official enough. Looking at this thread there was a lot of Dev communication, right up to the point where we started giving feedback on WHs. Then, nothing.
I wonder if in a few more pages there will be another official feedback thread that will be even more official that we will need to go give feedback in where everyone will guarantee us that our feedback will be looked at.
No seriously, for realz this time. |
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights Galactic Skyfleet Empire
63
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 21:08:00 -
[155] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote: As I said before, I used to live in a WH and you don't need to use BS's.
A HIC fitted with a 100MN AB and a bubble has an enormous mass for a cruiser.
Online the bubble and the AB and your mass blooms. Jump through the WH. Rinse and repeat. You also get to control the mass of you ship going through very well which is handy. Your ship is also very fast compared to a BS and super tanky. So you can burn back to the WH easily.
Adpation is easy.
As the guy above me just pointed out the mass goes DOWN when you activate the hic bubble..... you have clearly shown a lack of knowledge in this subject and to honestly think it's acceptable to have corps jumping 40 times with 2 minute timers on every pilot who does it is beyond asinine.
I don't like him but i'm going to quote a very space important person here...
"you are the virgin offering advice on how to get laid. Like a virgin, you probably genuinely believe that your opinion matters and that the mere fact that you have no personal experience on the topic shouldn't invalidate your opinion, while everyone else listening to you is quietly shaking their head." |
Ahost Gceo
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
188
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 21:49:00 -
[156] - Quote
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:Spugg Galdon wrote: As I said before, I used to live in a WH and you don't need to use BS's.
A HIC fitted with a 100MN AB and a bubble has an enormous mass for a cruiser.
Online the bubble and the AB and your mass blooms. Jump through the WH. Rinse and repeat. You also get to control the mass of you ship going through very well which is handy. Your ship is also very fast compared to a BS and super tanky. So you can burn back to the WH easily.
Adpation is easy.
As the guy above me just pointed out the mass goes DOWN when you activate the hic bubble..... you have clearly shown a lack of knowledge in this subject and to honestly think it's acceptable to have corps jumping 40 times with 2 minute timers on every pilot who does it is beyond asinine. I don't like him but i'm going to quote a very space important person here... "you are the virgin offering advice on how to get laid. Like a virgin, you probably genuinely believe that your opinion matters and that the mere fact that you have no personal experience on the topic shouldn't invalidate your opinion, while everyone else listening to you is quietly shaking their head." How can you not like Corbexx? He's vying to fix this ****. I'm a friggin' banana. |
jani pancar
Tigers in the Snows Suddenly AFK
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 22:50:00 -
[157] - Quote
hello everyone i haw a huge problem im no computer geek or somehting i cant log back to game it says that it cant download the patch notes or somehting from some eve site
please if some one can help me tnx |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
474
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 23:22:00 -
[158] - Quote
Ahost Gceo wrote:Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:Spugg Galdon wrote: As I said before, I used to live in a WH and you don't need to use BS's.
A HIC fitted with a 100MN AB and a bubble has an enormous mass for a cruiser.
Online the bubble and the AB and your mass blooms. Jump through the WH. Rinse and repeat. You also get to control the mass of you ship going through very well which is handy. Your ship is also very fast compared to a BS and super tanky. So you can burn back to the WH easily.
Adpation is easy.
As the guy above me just pointed out the mass goes DOWN when you activate the hic bubble..... you have clearly shown a lack of knowledge in this subject and to honestly think it's acceptable to have corps jumping 40 times with 2 minute timers on every pilot who does it is beyond asinine. I don't like him but i'm going to quote a very space important person here... "you are the virgin offering advice on how to get laid. Like a virgin, you probably genuinely believe that your opinion matters and that the mere fact that you have no personal experience on the topic shouldn't invalidate your opinion, while everyone else listening to you is quietly shaking their head." How can you not like Corbexx? He's vying to fix this ****.
Apologies if I got it wrong or maybe something has changed but we used to do it like that.
We had 5 HIC's, 100MN and Bubble up and our mass went through the roof. We would colapse WH's very quickly. Maybe something has changed over the last couple of years or something wasn't working as intended. I dunno.
Still, I don't think it being "easy" to roll a WH should be a thing. It should be a pain in the arse. |
OMEGA REDUX
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
23
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 23:49:00 -
[159] - Quote
Ahost Gceo wrote:Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:Spugg Galdon wrote: As I said before, I used to live in a WH and you don't need to use BS's.
A HIC fitted with a 100MN AB and a bubble has an enormous mass for a cruiser.
Online the bubble and the AB and your mass blooms. Jump through the WH. Rinse and repeat. You also get to control the mass of you ship going through very well which is handy. Your ship is also very fast compared to a BS and super tanky. So you can burn back to the WH easily.
Adpation is easy.
As the guy above me just pointed out the mass goes DOWN when you activate the hic bubble..... you have clearly shown a lack of knowledge in this subject and to honestly think it's acceptable to have corps jumping 40 times with 2 minute timers on every pilot who does it is beyond asinine. I don't like him but i'm going to quote a very space important person here... "you are the virgin offering advice on how to get laid. Like a virgin, you probably genuinely believe that your opinion matters and that the mere fact that you have no personal experience on the topic shouldn't invalidate your opinion, while everyone else listening to you is quietly shaking their head." How can you not like Corbexx? He's vying to fix this ****. the quote is from the mittanni not corbexx, corbexx was quoting mittani earlier when he said it |
Shaklu
Pride Rock
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 23:52:00 -
[160] - Quote
Sadly I still have payed time on this game. Will keep up training queues out of habit. WH space is what I loved, and now it's ****. My small corp disbanded the moment the proposed changes were released, and I'm sure many others have as well. Peace out - ED and SC will be out soon enough, and Destiny is landing in a few weeks.. screw this game with devs that ignore players and do the exact opposite that they ask of them. |
|
Makkuro Tatsu
The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
18
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 23:53:00 -
[161] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:Still, I don't think it being "easy" to roll a WH should be a thing. It should be a pain in the arse. Would you mind explaining why, in your opinion, one of the most often performed actions in W-space to give access to game content - be it PvP or PvE - should be "a pain in the arse"? If you find yourself with sh*tty wormhole chains, what else should you do but roll the holes and hope for better connections? POS up or logoff and wait until the wormholes reach their natural end of life?
As for rolling with small ships: C5/C6 holes requires an awful lot of mass to collapse. I think it is not unusual to roll, for example, the static connection repeatedly three or more times in the hope of finding a good chain. The smaller the ships, the more boring and tedious this becomes, and I would like to know how many W-space dwellers refrain from bringing out the big tugs now that the Hyperion mass/spawn changes have gone live. I don't have access to these numbers of course, but I am sure CCP could conjure them up. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights Galactic Skyfleet Empire
376
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 02:01:00 -
[162] - Quote
The only obvious part of this whole discussion is that the garbage is likely to stay because people that don't live in wormhole space are making the rules and telling us that they know better than the people currently living in wormhole space.
Our black hole had 5 wormholes today - and as we get a fleet ready to close a c5 connection - it turns out that it's a frigate hole. So we have an uninterruptible connection to c4 space (another frig wh) and c5 space. Why in the world would we run sites and roll our static to do some 'farming' in the connecting hole? Not that we close all the holes when we run a c4 but there's a difference when you're hitting D-scan with 2-3 possibly open holes in a system that your ninja running sites on the inhabitants and the reality of wandering into a hole with 15 sigs (spending 30 minutes scanning - I never said I was good), and having 5-6 wormholes plus the 2 in your own hole.
With a group of 3-4 guys and a couple of alts there's no god damn way I'm going to throw ships at that mess. In short - screw this. We're going to ninja gas mine and talk about what failscading looks like for us.
Also, why do we have 7 gas sites? So rather than throw data/relic which some of us would consider running we're just going to spawn gas until it's worth as much as nano ribbons?
I've been pretty upbeat about every change so far, even when it wasn't in my best interest and as an avid L4 mission runner (because I actually don't mind shooting at red dots and can help new players earn some isk) - the continual nerfs have made pretty much anything I do worthless.
How about you share your grand vision for wormholes so we can understand how our suffering will lead to better content? What's the 2 year plan here? Rebalance ships?
Sometimes it makes you just want to head-butt a kitten. |
Kusum Fawn
State Protectorate Caldari State
520
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 02:02:00 -
[163] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:Ahost Gceo wrote:Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:Spugg Galdon wrote: As I said before, I used to live in a WH and you don't need to use BS's.
A HIC fitted with a 100MN AB and a bubble has an enormous mass for a cruiser.
Online the bubble and the AB and your mass blooms. Jump through the WH. Rinse and repeat. You also get to control the mass of you ship going through very well which is handy. Your ship is also very fast compared to a BS and super tanky. So you can burn back to the WH easily.
Adpation is easy.
As the guy above me just pointed out the mass goes DOWN when you activate the hic bubble..... you have clearly shown a lack of knowledge in this subject and to honestly think it's acceptable to have corps jumping 40 times with 2 minute timers on every pilot who does it is beyond asinine. I don't like him but i'm going to quote a very space important person here... "you are the virgin offering advice on how to get laid. Like a virgin, you probably genuinely believe that your opinion matters and that the mere fact that you have no personal experience on the topic shouldn't invalidate your opinion, while everyone else listening to you is quietly shaking their head." How can you not like Corbexx? He's vying to fix this ****. Apologies if I got it wrong or maybe something has changed but we used to do it like that. We had 5 HIC's, 100MN and Bubble up and our mass went through the roof. We would colapse WH's very quickly. Maybe something has changed over the last couple of years or something wasn't working as intended. I dunno. Still, I don't think it being "easy" to roll a WH should be a thing. It should be a pain in the arse.
Just as a note here : A 100mn ab Dual (t2) bubbled Broadsword has a natural mass of 14 820 000 kg(A). With the Prop mod active that goes up to 64 820 000 kg(B) (the prop mod adds 50 000 000 kg as previously noted) Turning on one bubble (with the ab active) brings this mass down to 12 964 000 kg(C) Second bubble brings this further down to 2 592 800 kg (D) turning off the prop mod but keeping both bubble active drops you down to 592 800(E) And finally single bubble brings this to 2 964 000
The same stats for a phobos In order A. 15 080 000 A-DP. (Dual t2 1600 plated) 20 705 000 B-DP. 70 705 000 C-DP. 14 141 000 D-DP. 2 828 200 E-DP. 828 200 F-DP. 4 141 000 a dual plated, double bubbled 100mn ab phobos is also some 400+ MW over on powergrid and thus not a very viable fit.
A dominix (no plates) A. 100 250 000 B. 150 250 000
An Orca (no plates) A. 250 000 000 B. 300 000 000
to collapse the most common type of wh (which is the +/- 10% 300 GJ / 2000 GJ) it would take: 29-35 jumps for the Broadsword (~15-17 passes) 25-32 jumps for the Phobos (~12-16 passes) 12-15 jumps for the Dominix (~6-8 passes) 6-8 jumps for the Orca (3-4 passes)
With a ~4 minute polarization timer this is approximately 60-68 minutes of polarization for broadsword 48-60 minutes phobos 24-32 minutes dominix 12-16 minutes orca
This does not include the warp time or the time to align back to the hole with the new mass-distance changes. For the purposes of your experience previously, using Hics was not a particularly efficient way of rolling any wh and it remains a not particularly exciting prospect for the future
*A single plate devoter has a mass of 18 950 000 and is useful for collapsing C1 wh which have a jump limit of 20 000 000 kg adding a bubble (or two) is useful for collapsing WH that are on the Verge of Collapse (under 25% mass remaining) Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
|
OMEGA REDUX
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
23
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 02:51:00 -
[164] - Quote
polarization timer is exactly 5 mins |
Nadine Jones
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 08:07:00 -
[165] - Quote
Buffing risk free highsec incursions whilst nerfing wormholes even further.... makes total sense. How about shutting down Concord in incursion areas next patch? |
Gosti Kahanid
GANOR Deep Space Explorers GANOR INC.
60
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 09:46:00 -
[166] - Quote
Nadine Jones wrote:Buffing risk free highsec incursions whilst nerfing wormholes even further.... makes total sense. How about shutting down Concord in incursion areas next patch?
or at least reduce the reaction-time of Concord so they need at least ten times as long as in a System without an Incursion. It would make sense because Concord would be slowed down by the Sansha-Incursion |
Makkuro Tatsu
The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
18
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 10:12:00 -
[167] - Quote
Nadine Jones wrote:Buffing risk free highsec incursions whilst nerfing wormholes even further.... makes total sense. To be fair, incursion scout site rewards used to hardly even cover the cost of ammunition spent, so a little buff seems appropriate (or the sites might aswell not exist because they're not being run).
I see this weird mirage that after expansions/patches people no longer need to discuss which group of EVE players and which playstyles got nerfed, trampled over or ignored by CCP the most. Instead I'd like to see cheerful faces and pilots discussing how enjoyable life in New Eden has become, with long-standing bugs removed and all that.
Pipe dreams, but I actually play EVE - and pay for it - to have fun. |
Worrff
Viziam Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 12:08:00 -
[168] - Quote
Makkuro Tatsu wrote:Nadine Jones wrote:Buffing risk free highsec incursions whilst nerfing wormholes even further.... makes total sense. To be fair, incursion scout site rewards used to hardly even cover the cost of ammunition spent, so a little buff seems appropriate (or the sites might aswell not exist because they're not being run). I see this weird mirage that after expansions/patches people no longer need to discuss which group of EVE players and which playstyles got nerfed, trampled over or ignored by CCP the most. Instead I'd like to see cheerful faces and pilots discussing how enjoyable life in New Eden has become, with long-standing bugs removed and all that. Pipe dreams, but I actually play EVE - and pay for it - to have fun.
Same here, or rather it used to be...
I used to look forward to logging on straight after work and playing all night, but over the last few years CCPGÇÖs attitude have slowly been beating the enthusiasm for this game out of me.
Now I log on more from habit than anything else. I still enjoy parts of the game, but the constant addition of crap, along with the arrogance of the DevGÇÖs who just refuse to listen, is slowly making it more of a chore than anything else. It will not take much more just to walk away, which is a real shame as I used to love this game.
I pay for my 5 accounts with real money, and it wonGÇÖt make much of a difference to CCP but it will to me, I can then spend it on a game I enjoy.
And before someone asks, my stuff dies along with the accounts :)
|
Moloney
Mass Effect Enterprises
96
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 12:17:00 -
[169] - Quote
3 accounts cancelled.
All 3 have been paid with irl money from day 1.
I am not paying you to **** up my game (WH) and not produce any of the fixes or features that were actually asked for. |
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights Galactic Skyfleet Empire
65
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 13:28:00 -
[170] - Quote
Ahost Gceo wrote:Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:Spugg Galdon wrote: As I said before, I used to live in a WH and you don't need to use BS's.
A HIC fitted with a 100MN AB and a bubble has an enormous mass for a cruiser.
Online the bubble and the AB and your mass blooms. Jump through the WH. Rinse and repeat. You also get to control the mass of you ship going through very well which is handy. Your ship is also very fast compared to a BS and super tanky. So you can burn back to the WH easily.
Adpation is easy.
As the guy above me just pointed out the mass goes DOWN when you activate the hic bubble..... you have clearly shown a lack of knowledge in this subject and to honestly think it's acceptable to have corps jumping 40 times with 2 minute timers on every pilot who does it is beyond asinine. I don't like him but i'm going to quote a very space important person here... "you are the virgin offering advice on how to get laid. Like a virgin, you probably genuinely believe that your opinion matters and that the mere fact that you have no personal experience on the topic shouldn't invalidate your opinion, while everyone else listening to you is quietly shaking their head." How can you not like Corbexx? He's vying to fix this ****.
That quote is from The Mittani. Corbexx himself quoted it and modified it to be relevant to wh's.
|
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Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
182
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 15:43:00 -
[171] - Quote
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:Ahost Gceo wrote:Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:Spugg Galdon wrote: As I said before, I used to live in a WH and you don't need to use BS's.
A HIC fitted with a 100MN AB and a bubble has an enormous mass for a cruiser.
Online the bubble and the AB and your mass blooms. Jump through the WH. Rinse and repeat. You also get to control the mass of you ship going through very well which is handy. Your ship is also very fast compared to a BS and super tanky. So you can burn back to the WH easily.
Adpation is easy.
As the guy above me just pointed out the mass goes DOWN when you activate the hic bubble..... you have clearly shown a lack of knowledge in this subject and to honestly think it's acceptable to have corps jumping 40 times with 2 minute timers on every pilot who does it is beyond asinine. I don't like him but i'm going to quote a very space important person here... "you are the virgin offering advice on how to get laid. Like a virgin, you probably genuinely believe that your opinion matters and that the mere fact that you have no personal experience on the topic shouldn't invalidate your opinion, while everyone else listening to you is quietly shaking their head." How can you not like Corbexx? He's vying to fix this ****. That quote is from The Mittani. Corbexx himself quoted it and modified it to be relevant to wh's.
Still relevant. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
726
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 15:44:00 -
[172] - Quote
Nadine Jones wrote:Buffing risk free highsec incursions whilst nerfing wormholes even further.... makes total sense. How about shutting down Concord in incursion areas next patch? this is one areas where both pro-spawn and anti-spawn communities can unite in agreement
lets see it happen ccp |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
726
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 15:49:00 -
[173] - Quote
Gosti Kahanid wrote:We are a small WH-Corp living in a C5. At the moment we have 10 Pilots logged in max.
For the last few days we experimented how to close C6 and 0.0-WHs with less risk as possible. To close those, we use a Dread, an Orca and a Battleship. Both Dread and Orca are now fitted with 3-4 Overdrives and a 100MN MWD. It-¦s important that the Dread jumps first so he doesn-¦t spawn more than 15km away from the WH. With its MWD on it flies about 400m/s so he reaches jumprange in about 30 seconds. Orca, as a smaller/lighter Ship is even faster.
So after adapting a little bit we can still close a WH in about 30 Seconds. I really don-¦t see the big problem here. Ok, if someone was already lurking at a WH then you have a problem with your Dread 10km away from jumprange, but this was already a risk before the change. The only difference now ist that the Dread will be trapped on the other side, but this is the Risk when living in a WH... see this is what's great about the change, you've got the people who can't think mass unsubbing while the smaller cleverer corps take their place |
Snakes-On-A-Plane
41
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 16:07:00 -
[174] - Quote
Well, a T3 chasing another T3 through a hole can now be up to 24km away from his target. 10k deviance, for both players, plus the width of the hole itself, =24km or so.
With a slight head start, that can be out of even long point range.
Yay? |
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights Galactic Skyfleet Empire
65
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 16:12:00 -
[175] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Gosti Kahanid wrote:We are a small WH-Corp living in a C5. At the moment we have 10 Pilots logged in max.
For the last few days we experimented how to close C6 and 0.0-WHs with less risk as possible. To close those, we use a Dread, an Orca and a Battleship. Both Dread and Orca are now fitted with 3-4 Overdrives and a 100MN MWD. It-¦s important that the Dread jumps first so he doesn-¦t spawn more than 15km away from the WH. With its MWD on it flies about 400m/s so he reaches jumprange in about 30 seconds. Orca, as a smaller/lighter Ship is even faster.
So after adapting a little bit we can still close a WH in about 30 Seconds. I really don-¦t see the big problem here. Ok, if someone was already lurking at a WH then you have a problem with your Dread 10km away from jumprange, but this was already a risk before the change. The only difference now ist that the Dread will be trapped on the other side, but this is the Risk when living in a WH... see this is what's great about the change, you've got the people who can't think mass unsubbing while the smaller cleverer corps take their place
Ok i'm going to address a couple things here. First off Gosti. Your method is not as sound as you think. 30 seconds...... you think that is fast? 30 seconds is still a ridiculous amount of time for a dread (which o btw is completely defenseless with your fit listed) to get back to a wh. Second. i can't wait to see you get a ship stuck in a wh because of the order you just listed. When closing the higher c5+ holes you always do orca and bs FIRST because only then do you know if it is safe to bring the dread through which is known if the wh has not had it's first shrink. Since the jump range is determined off the wormhole status after the jump the dread will always have a large randomness to it's range. In the order you just listed short of a brand new hole once you jump the dread out trying to determine how much mass is left on the wh is near impossible because of the range which a crit or first shrunk wh could have.
Finally,Retar do you live in a wh? or are you just a null sec bear who rats with a local open at all times... Given your corp i'm going to assume the later so don't go complimenting something which you probably have no knowledge of. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
726
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 16:20:00 -
[176] - Quote
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote: Ok i'm going to address a couple things here. First off Gosti. Your method is not as sound as you think. 30 seconds...... you think that is fast? 30 seconds is still a ridiculous amount of time for a dread (which o btw is completely defenseless with your fit listed) to get back to a wh. Second. i can't wait to see you get a ship stuck in a wh because of the order you just listed. When closing the higher c5+ holes you always do orca and bs FIRST because only then do you know if it is safe to bring the dread through which is known if the wh has not had it's first shrink. Since the jump range is determined off the wormhole status after the jump the dread will always have a large randomness to it's range. In the order you just listed short of a brand new hole once you jump the dread out trying to determine how much mass is left on the wh is near impossible because of the range which a crit or first shrunk wh could have.
Finally,Retar do you live in a wh? or are you just a null sec bear who rats with a local open at all times... Given your corp i'm going to assume the later so don't go complimenting something which you probably have no knowledge of.
i was one of the first people in wormholes, a founding member of Wormfleet which produced many of the first tengus ever made and I have been consulting with querns, one of the goonswarm economic cabal's resident wormhole experts
however our massive list of impressive credentials is unnecessary here because what we can see here is that while 95% of the posters are raging and trying to force ccp to maintain the system exactly as it is, the reason for that is an unwillingness to adapt. wormhole space has been static long enough that many residents have learned little for themselves, and are instead merely applying knowledge passed on from more adventurous types. the rage is not that this change is a bad one: it is that this change forces people to adapt and the people who can adapt and thrive are busy adapting and thriving rather than posting
don't worry: i'm sure the knowledge they discover will eventually filter out as well but you will not do nearly as well as if you do the discovery yourself and steal a march on your more simpleminded collegues |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
433
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 16:20:00 -
[177] - Quote
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:Gosti Kahanid wrote:We are a small WH-Corp living in a C5. At the moment we have 10 Pilots logged in max.
For the last few days we experimented how to close C6 and 0.0-WHs with less risk as possible. To close those, we use a Dread, an Orca and a Battleship. Both Dread and Orca are now fitted with 3-4 Overdrives and a 100MN MWD. It-¦s important that the Dread jumps first so he doesn-¦t spawn more than 15km away from the WH. With its MWD on it flies about 400m/s so he reaches jumprange in about 30 seconds. Orca, as a smaller/lighter Ship is even faster.
So after adapting a little bit we can still close a WH in about 30 Seconds. I really don-¦t see the big problem here. Ok, if someone was already lurking at a WH then you have a problem with your Dread 10km away from jumprange, but this was already a risk before the change. The only difference now ist that the Dread will be trapped on the other side, but this is the Risk when living in a WH... see this is what's great about the change, you've got the people who can't think mass unsubbing while the smaller cleverer corps take their place Ok i'm going to address a couple things here. First off Gosti. Your method is not as sound as you think. 30 seconds...... you think that is fast? 30 seconds is still a ridiculous amount of time for a dread (which o btw is completely defenseless with your fit listed) to get back to a wh. Second. i can't wait to see you get a ship stuck in a wh because of the order you just listed. When closing the higher c5+ holes you always do orca and bs FIRST because only then do you know if it is safe to bring the dread through which is known if the wh has not had it's first shrink. Since the jump range is determined off the wormhole status after the jump the dread will always have a large randomness to it's range. In the order you just listed short of a brand new hole once you jump the dread out trying to determine how much mass is left on the wh is near impossible because of the range which a crit or first shrunk wh could have. Finally,Retar do you live in a wh? or are you just a null sec bear who rats with a local open at all times... Given your corp i'm going to assume the later so don't go complimenting something which you probably have no knowledge of. sounds like he is making isk and doing wormholes just fine while you and yours cry an ocean of tears because the entire nexus of your gameplay experience is rooted in cargo culting someone else's innovations
don't need a degree from the university of wormhole phoenix to understand that |
Laughable Xhosa Girl
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 16:43:00 -
[178] - Quote
Nadine Jones wrote:Buffing risk free highsec incursions whilst nerfing wormholes even further.... makes total sense. How about shutting down Concord in incursion areas next patch?
insha'allah |
Kusum Fawn
State Protectorate Caldari State
522
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 16:57:00 -
[179] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:Gosti Kahanid wrote:We are a small WH-Corp living in a C5. At the moment we have 10 Pilots logged in max.
For the last few days we experimented how to close C6 and 0.0-WHs with less risk as possible. To close those, we use a Dread, an Orca and a Battleship. Both Dread and Orca are now fitted with 3-4 Overdrives and a 100MN MWD. It-¦s important that the Dread jumps first so he doesn-¦t spawn more than 15km away from the WH. With its MWD on it flies about 400m/s so he reaches jumprange in about 30 seconds. Orca, as a smaller/lighter Ship is even faster.
So after adapting a little bit we can still close a WH in about 30 Seconds. I really don-¦t see the big problem here. Ok, if someone was already lurking at a WH then you have a problem with your Dread 10km away from jumprange, but this was already a risk before the change. The only difference now ist that the Dread will be trapped on the other side, but this is the Risk when living in a WH... see this is what's great about the change, you've got the people who can't think mass unsubbing while the smaller cleverer corps take their place Ok i'm going to address a couple things here. First off Gosti. Your method is not as sound as you think. 30 seconds...... you think that is fast? 30 seconds is still a ridiculous amount of time for a dread (which o btw is completely defenseless with your fit listed) to get back to a wh. Second. i can't wait to see you get a ship stuck in a wh because of the order you just listed. When closing the higher c5+ holes you always do orca and bs FIRST because only then do you know if it is safe to bring the dread through which is known if the wh has not had it's first shrink. Since the jump range is determined off the wormhole status after the jump the dread will always have a large randomness to it's range. In the order you just listed short of a brand new hole once you jump the dread out trying to determine how much mass is left on the wh is near impossible because of the range which a crit or first shrunk wh could have. Finally,Retar do you live in a wh? or are you just a null sec bear who rats with a local open at all times... Given your corp i'm going to assume the later so don't go complimenting something which you probably have no knowledge of. sounds like he is making isk and doing wormholes just fine while you and yours cry an ocean of tears because the entire nexus of your gameplay experience is rooted in cargo culting someone else's innovations don't need a degree from the university of wormhole phoenix to understand that Glad to see the goonswarm cabal is here to protect the game from the rest of us, seeing as how you guys have done such a bangup job working to fix nullsec, im sure these wh changes you like so much is really gonna make Wh better Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
|
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
433
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 16:59:00 -
[180] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:Glad to see the goonswarm cabal is here to protect the game from the rest of us, seeing as how you guys have done such a bangup job working to fix nullsec, im sure these wh changes you like so much is really gonna make Wh better confirming that the bogeyman is after you |
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