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Can CCP admit theycan't handle 300 players in a system?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Idara Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.29 03:10:00 - [31] Originally by: Mi'zuro YOU CANNOT DO THAT WHILE WARPING!! HEY! You obviously hacked my account and stole my logs! I'm petitioning you!
Tonkin Omega Corp	Posted - 2006.07.29 03:12:00 - [32] Originally by: Crivens Originally by: Tonkin yea well worth 20 pound a month What? I pay about ú8.50 a month. (buy timecodes in US$ so the exchange rate works for you - goons helping allies :) ) 2 accounts bud will kill anythin for the right price
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2006.07.29 03:16:00 - [33] Nothing in eve should be free and easy. If you dont want lag, you better train Client Stabilization V and Spontaneous Node Reinforcement IV. I heard that GM connections is bugged right now.
Hanns Choibman GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 03:23:00 - [34] Edited by: Hanns Choibman on 29/07/2006 03:23:12 And still no offical response - Do CCP read their own forums? ---------------------------------------------- The D2 I win Button
Tekka Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.29 03:28:00 - [35] Why would you need CCP to say it? We all know bad stuff happens when lots of people go to one system, yet people keep doing it. »»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»

Abdalion	Posted - 2006.07.29 03:32:00 - [36] Originally by: Hanns Choibman And still no offical response - Do CCP read their own forums? Yes they do, but they generally don't let people know that they are reading them. Moral of the story I just told is, don't expect an official CCP response because you posted a statement or question on the forums. Another thing that makes sense to me is that the majority of CCP people who read the forums are most likely asleep as it is the middle of the night in Iceland, not to mention that its the weekend as well, which to me makes the chances of an "official" CCP reply close to nil. Email [email protected] perhaps they can help, they never sleep and work weekends I hear. ___

Infinity Ziona ISK LLC	Posted - 2006.07.29 03:41:00 - [37] I hate that I am missing 'the real game' in 0.0 right now.
Ryoko Hunter	Posted - 2006.07.29 03:41:00 - [38] lol. So many people are complaining, but when you think about it you guys are creating the problems yourselves and can easily circumvent them. Why has combat suddenly become a competition who can group the largest ammount of ships in a single system? Why not, if you must fight in large groups at all, fight over a series of systems? Or if that wont work to reduce lag and allow actual warfare, over a series of nodes? A competent commander could use this forced dispersal of forces to their advantage - ammassing in one place is not the only strategy that yields victories, even in eve. Fleet battles between even the largest alliances are still possible, just get out of that rediculous mindset that numbers in system = win. Besides, if the enemy is dumb enough to ammass in one position (thusly draining resources from other positions), why don't you break your fleet up into a number of smaller fleets and attack them on all fronts? What is so important about XZH that you must deploy the largest force you can apparently ammass? If you do it right, even if their massive "blob" were to attack each of these smaller fleets, by the time they actually got you out of their territory, the damage to their infrastructure would be extreme (Destroy their POS's to hurt them economically, sevre reinforcement lines so when you actually pop someone they don't come in an identical replacement ship 5 minutes later, and cause general mayham in their territory while avoiding their massive fleet altogether.) And if the enemy resorts to the same tactics, not only is the problem solved, but it opens up a whole new system of war for you, one that doesn't involve "800 billion cargo containers" from 300 ships =). Also, people claim that this isn't "M"MORPG if they can't send masses of players to the same point, but in almost any game that's as intensive as this one, if you group large numbers of players in a single area it will cause extreme lag. Imagine if a large % of the population of WoW all went to Durotar at the same time. Can you imagine the lag? It's the same thing here.
McDeth187 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 03:57:00 - [39] Originally by: Ryoko Hunter Stupid Words You do realise you just asked us to eliminate the lag by not playing the game, right?
Ryoko Hunter	Posted - 2006.07.29 03:58:00 - [40] Originally by: McDeth187 Originally by: Ryoko Hunter Stupid Words You do realise you just asked us to eliminate the lag by not playing the game, right? ...evidently there has been a misunderstanding. I suggested that you use different tactics, I never once even hinted that you should quit. Did you even read what I had to say?
Hanns Choibman GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 03:59:00 - [41] Edited by: Hanns Choibman on 29/07/2006 04:00:11 Originally by: Ryoko Hunter words Somethings you don't understand is that; 1) Commanding lots of smaller fleets requires lots of fleet leaders, I agree this is a good idea but if the opposition has a bigger gang they can destroy each smaller gang and move on to the next one. Forcing players to use substandard tactics is not fun. 2) The one system we are fighting for is important to us becasue that is our first claim to conq space, if we were to spread out into systems with no strategic importance, there would no point and we may as well not even try 3) Our side was the side that had spent the time digging in and we are defending it. The game functionality is what is beating us, not our opposition. Finally CCP have a lot of unhappy players and customers right now and those players are discussing "in character" terrorist attacks in Empire en mass as a protest and then they will lose customers and $30,000 a month if they are not carefull. I know data centers and thats enough money to buy harware that can handle more information than they currently claim they can and fail at. This is a customer service issue ---------------------------------------------- The D2 I win Button
Ryoko Hunter	Posted - 2006.07.29 04:17:00 - [42] Originally by: Hanns Choibman Edited by: Hanns Choibman on 29/07/2006 04:00:11 Originally by: Ryoko Hunter words Somethings you don't understand is that; 1) Commanding lots of smaller fleets requires lots of fleet leaders, I agree this is a good idea but if the opposition has a bigger gang they can destroy each smaller gang and move on to the next one. Forcing players to use substandard tactics is not fun. This is the problematic mindset I was speaking of. Yes, a smaller gang will be defeated by a large one, but are you saying that you could not inflict any damage on the enemy in the time it would take for them to jump, system to system, POS to POS and eliminate each gang in turn? If they are moving in a large mass, they could only eliminate each gang one at a time, whereas you could be inflicting damage in a widespread area. And if you find a system of little or no strategic importance ignore it, bypass it, or just cut across it without wasting time there. "Blitzkrieg" (island-hop, storm through, whatever you would like to name this military strategy) to their important (or better, vulnerable) systems and hurt them in that fashion. Quote: 2) The one system we are fighting for is important to us becasue that is our first claim to conq space, if we were to spread out into systems with no strategic importance, there would no point and we may as well not even try You're saying that you refuse to give up a territory simply because it was the first one you successfully conquered? I'll just say that that is not a wise mindset for someone at war. You are giving far too much importance to the system - who cares where your incursion began if holding it means delaying or even failing in your incursion? Wars of conquest are best won by crippling your opponents ability to defend themselves, then invading, not fighting inch by inch, generating massive targets for which massive fleets would be usefull. Quote: 3) Our side was the side that had spent the time digging in and we are defending it. The game functionality is what is beating us, not our opposition. How much damage are you doing to the enemy by holding this territory? How much more could be done if you attacked others and simply abandoned this territory? Or better yet used the best delaying tactics you could employ to stop them from reinforcing other areas? I might be out of my depth, applying too many real world concepts to a game that defies the laws of real world warfare, but as I see it you are defending a target of little significance. There are other ways into their territory, so it is not as though this were normandy and you are forced to defend it or die. Quote: Finally CCP have a lot of unhappy players and customers right now and those players are discussing "in character" terrorist attacks in Empire en mass as a protest and then they will lose customers and $30,000 a month if they are not carefull. I know data centers and thats enough money to buy harware that can handle more information than they currently claim they can and fail at. This is a customer service issue It's my suggestion that you circumvent the issue instead of throwing in the towel. It's like the US surrendering to Japan because you didn't have enough land on an island to stuff the entirety of both armies on. I realize that this has angered you and I respect your feelings on the issue but I really hate to see people wanting to quit over something like this. PS: I don't have any idea why each of my points seems to contain a WW2 reference. I suppose I ought not to have put it on the military channel in that moment of boredom earlier...
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2006.07.29 04:31:00 - [43] Ryoko Hunter, whatever you do in eve, i wish you that it stopps working for a full week. entirely. And i wish you that smart people who actually have no clue about what they are talking about will come in tell you to do something entirely else, because obviously, its your fault that it stopped working in the first place. I actually dont wish you that - by the simple fact that it might be the same thing i am doing ;)
Fuk Mi	Posted - 2006.07.29 04:33:00 - [44] Originally by: Zosh Let's have 2600 people all cancel subscriptions at once maybe that'll finally get their attention! and the other 200k people will laugh and be happy all the alliance people are gone and 0.0 is free again!
Torm Ilmater Shadow Company Alektorophobia	Posted - 2006.07.29 04:38:00 - [45] Originally by: Zosh Let's have 2600 people all cancel subscriptions at once maybe that'll finally get their attention! That might actually be a good idea as a demonstration to CCP that it is VERY serious. Cancel and then Resub immediately to show them that if it isn't fixed they'll have to deal with a few less subscribers. ::shrug:: Maybe that'd get some actual headway on the matter.
Ryoko Hunter	Posted - 2006.07.29 04:38:00 - [46] Originally by: Argenton Sayvers Ryoko Hunter, whatever you do in eve, i wish you that it stopps working for a full week. entirely. And i wish you that smart people who actually have no clue about what they are talking about will come in tell you to do something entirely else, because obviously, its your fault that it stopped working in the first place. I actually dont wish you that - by the simple fact that it might be the same thing i am doing ;) You've used "you" in too many places to make sense on the first reading, but I can get the gest of what you are saying. If you bothered to read all of what I said, you might notice the quote "I might be out of my depth, applying too many real world concepts... ect". I did not, in any way shape or form, mean to sound as though I knew better than people with years of experience (and simply put: I don't), I simply suggested a possible work around and defended it with logical arguments. Are you really saying that someone with little experience should never make a suggestion? Often times it is those who are not hidebound in tradition and defacto procedures that come up with the most suitable inovations. As a side note, I have a habit of letting my words run away with me, quite litterally, so if it seems that my feathers have been ruffled - they haven't, I just have a naturally defensive posting style, and I react to almost everything.
Hectic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.29 04:55:00 - [47] People are you asking for CCP to give you a fix to the 'lag' problem? If so, first sit and think about the current gaming industry. Are there any other games out there that can handle 400 people all directally interacting with eachother, in the same scene (grid) without any lag? If you can fing a game please let me know and i'll subscribe so that I can indeed see this technical miracle at work. The truth of the matter is that, current computer and server hardware, network software, and game interfaces cannot handle this kind of load. It is simply impossible. Therefore if you choose to engage in this sort of conflict in EVE, then you are basically signing the contract saying that yes, I am willing to add to the lag, and suffer from it myself. I myself have gone into situations where I knew lag would play a desciding factor in the outcome of the battle, and went forth with the intention not to complain when this happens. Please just give CCP a break, your monthly fee (whatever the hell it is) cannot change the current state of industry. TYVM, RIP MGRL
Hectic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.29 04:59:00 - [48] Oh, and blackmail is bad mmkay!
Torm Ilmater Shadow Company Alektorophobia	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:03:00 - [49] Edited by: Torm Ilmater on 29/07/2006 05:04:53 Planetside seemed to handle itself pretty well in largescale battles with a couple hundred people and that was a FPS. Sure there was some lag but it wasn't too bad and was playable. Lag will always be around but the extent of the lag that can appear in EVE is just a tad excessive. A few seconds of module delay, acceptable (for me at least), staring at a frozen screen (or worse one that's not frozen just totally unresponsive for 10, 20, 30 minutes)...not acceptable. Seems to make sense to me.
Kree Jaffa	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:05:00 - [50] Distributing your fleet into multiple systems will just allow you to get picked off. On another note, what sort of voodoo magic is CCP using on serenity? Last I knew their target capacity is over double TQs. Plus the CN get together in groups larger than what we do here. So how are they managing to pull things off without that cluster going down in flames?
Hanns Choibman GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:13:00 - [51] Originally by: Hectic People are you asking for CCP to give you a fix to the 'lag' problem? If so, first sit and think about the current gaming industry. Are there any other games out there that can handle 400 people all directally interacting with eachother, in the same scene (grid) without any lag? If you can fing a game please let me know and i'll subscribe so that I can indeed see this technical miracle at work. The truth of the matter is that, current computer and server hardware, network software, and game interfaces cannot handle this kind of load. It is simply impossible. Therefore if you choose to engage in this sort of conflict in EVE, then you are basically signing the contract saying that yes, I am willing to add to the lag, and suffer from it myself. I myself have gone into situations where I knew lag would play a desciding factor in the outcome of the battle, and went forth with the intention not to complain when this happens. Please just give CCP a break, your monthly fee (whatever the hell it is) cannot change the current state of industry. TYVM, If thats what you want to believe then what does it matter, lag is a managable/playable issue but this was something worse. The whole system went haywire for about 2 hours, in a critical conflict. But hey you are the captian of what is possible and impossible so thanks for your exciting input. ---------------------------------------------- The D2 I win Button
turnschuh Eye of God	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:13:00 - [52] Originally by: Hectic People are you asking for CCP to give you a fix to the 'lag' problem? If so, first sit and think about the current gaming industry. Are there any other games out there that can handle 400 people all directally interacting with eachother, in the same scene (grid) without any lag? Planetside? I had battles with easly 400 people, sure there was lag but maybe 600-800ms not 40minutes :p
Torm Ilmater Shadow Company Alektorophobia	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:18:00 - [53] Originally by: Hectic Oh, and blackmail is bad mmkay! I wouldn't see it as blackmail but more of a valid capitalist response to the percieved or actual deficiency of a product that the EVE player continues to 'invest' money in via their subscription fee. While I'm not advocating everyone quit and go play Sudoku, a good way to express displeasure and make sure that those feelings are noted is to express those feelings with your wallet, even if it's just in a demonstration where you cancel/resub almost immediately. EVE developers are usually quite close to the pulse of their subscribers so it shouldn't be needed but it would show them that it's gone to a point past just complaining on the forums and a few funny sigs.
Swedish Bob	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:24:00 - [54] Originally by: Hectic Oh, and blackmail is bad mmkay! I'd hardly call it blackmail. Speaking with your wallet is one of the few things companies understand. I believe lineage 2 manages to do several hundred players fighting on the same node. Especially during castle sieges. I think the biggest error is trying to cram 300 players on a small slice of a single machine. This games seems to have broken or non-existent load balancing. It should be moving the slices the other nodes occupy off the machine if there are 300 people fighting in one system. That doesn't seem to happen without Dev Magic(tm) happening. Plenty of ways the lag could be solved, but really CCP has been focusing on where it can get more money. There are far more carebears maining in empire. So I'm not expecting things to really improve anytime soon despite promises to the contrary. Hell we can't even copy BMs with any reasonable speed yet.
Torm Ilmater Shadow Company Alektorophobia	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:32:00 - [55] Think there are a few other games out there that I could name as well but I haven't seen how well they handle situations this large so I won't bring them up. The truth is that the almost total lack of a system of load balancing that a game like EVE should have is fairly unacceptable. Should EVE continue to grow that'll just become even more apparent. It's not that it's "impossible" to put that many ppl together it's just that as EVE is currently coded (from what I understand) it's just damn near impossible. Gamers accept lag as unavoidable but the game should be made so that it is still playable (and most importantly, enjoyable) with whatever lag it is likely to experience.
Lord XSiV Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:32:00 - [56] Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Hanns Choibman And still no offical response - Do CCP read their own forums? Yes they do, but they generally don't let people know that they are reading them. Moral of the story I just told is, don't expect an official CCP response because you posted a statement or question on the forums. Another thing that makes sense to me is that the majority of CCP people who read the forums are most likely asleep as it is the middle of the night in Iceland, not to mention that its the weekend as well, which to me makes the chances of an "official" CCP reply close to nil. Email [email protected] perhaps they can help, they never sleep and work weekends I hear. So basically what you are saying is that CCP people have a social life. Good for them. When CCP grows to over 1k employees, then we should really complain. But while they are still around the 100 mark, cut them some slack. Blizzard has way more issues and way more people to deal with them but they still take a lot of time to resovle.
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2006.07.29 05:32:00 - [57] Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 29/07/2006 05:33:08 The problem is not that the current hardware doesnt handle 400 people in one "scene". I can play chess perfectly fine with just 2. The problem is that i have not seen a single change or design concept that would make it a smart idea to split into gangs of 1-5 and roam backwater systems meeting the enemies gangs of 1-5 and have fun firefights) instead of both parties blobing up in one to protect their 50 dreads sieging and counter-sieging the 89 POS that have been put up at every moon. Maybe the new contract system is going to fix this in the way that alliances will need all the paid account slots they can get to keep the logistical functionality they currently have (training up rank 14 skills that allow you to place +1 contract per level ;) ), and there simply wont be enough pvp accounts left to cause node death.
Weirda Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.29 06:26:00 - [58] Edited by: Weirda on 29/07/2006 06:30:21 maybe they were just sharing a node with one of those bookmark escrow spammers copying their wares for the weekend... Originally by: ouveur blog 286 Since we're talking about examples, lets not forget bookmarks. We've seen a lot of speculation that they possibly can't be a server load. Well, they sure are. Copying a couple of hundred bookmarks takes serious CPU time on SOL and SQL servers, so take this as a hint. If you're doing thousands, you might be killing a couple of pour soul in combat somewhere. __ Weirda Join QOTSA Now
Avon Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:23:00 - [59] Is it just me that is enjoying the irony of the Goons moaning about this? As to them cancelling their 2600 accounts .. don't tease. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
MysticNZ GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 07:46:00 - [60] Wish you all the best :) Sadly I cannot play this weekend -=====-

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