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Can CCP admit theycan't handle 300 players in a system?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:48:00 - [211] Originally by: Anglyson how does Jita handle 500+ characters at once i know they aren't all shooting at each other but there are plenty of modules running (cargo/ship scanners apparently) and a whole lot of targeting It's because of the n-squared issue. 500 people in the same grid gives a load factor of 500500 = 250,000. 500 people in 10 groups of 50, each group in a different grid, gives a load factor of 5050*10 = 25000. The number of players in a system is actually a very poor indicator of how much load that system is generating - it depends far more on how those players are grouped together, and what they are doing. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Testicular Testes	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:49:00 - [212] Originally by: Asnar Originally by: Dinique Originally by: Avon Originally by: Dinique [ And to they hypersensitive, overexcited Sessho Seki over there, no one asked that ALL the resources should be handed over to one group of people. Just some resources reballanced properly to accomodate alliance warfare. Which would mean one node dedicated to the particular system. That doesnt mean the rest of EVE gets screwed, take the resources from the systems where those 600 players are NOT. Oveur listed the attached nodes. All of those systems would then be sharing different nodes, but the whole server cluster would have one less node to balance over. The people in those other systems would experience worse gameplay, and it would have a knock-on effect. Hence my suggestion that in that case, a few additional nodes be acquired to be used specifically in cases such as these? How many engagements on this scale is ongoing at the same time in EVE currently? 2 or 3 perhaps as a maximum? 3 Servers that exist for this purpose could make big alliance warfare so much more fun, in that case. Nodes that during 95% of the time havenothing to do... not exactly a good way too spend your cash IMO Making customers happy is a great investment. Of course it needs to work before a risk like that is taken ;) The real question is - ETA on Dragon ? (Aka Unicode drama build)
Indomitus Rex	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:00:00 - [213] Edited by: Indomitus Rex on 02/08/2006 21:01:23 I don't really know why any of you expect CCP to fix this problem. The only people that get affected by such horrid lag are the people involved in huge fleet battles in 0.0. Correct? So, CCP knows that people who are participating in huge 0.0 fleet battles are already committed to the game and their characters and won't quit anyway, regardless of the lag. So, now the question is, shoul CCP fix the lag issue for a small portion of the overall player base for a small portion of the gameplay? Of course not. This would inevitably cost them money if they really wanted to fix it for good by purchasing more servers, etc. Instead, CCP can continue to pump out new content and goodies and whatnot and attract more people to the game while keeping everyone already in the game playing. . .and it doesn't add to their overhead. So until a majority of the subscribers become involved in major 0.0 fleet battles with crippling lag, CCP isn't going to go out of their way to fix it thoroughly. This is one reason why attempting to push players out to 0.0 through empire nerfs, etc. is IMHO a bad idea. Once all these people get out to 0.0 and into alliances and into these fleet battles the lag will just get worse. Deutschland.
Miss Overlord	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:15:00 - [214] keep htose fleett battles coming guys its affecting the game overall - this will lead to improvements
Sirkill	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:53:00 - [215] Problam is CCP have fixxed this problem in the past. It used to be impossible to have 50 V 50. Then came the server upgrades, what happened? Alliences just increased the size of their fleets to fill the server capacity. And it will happen again, if CCP let 150 V 150 be possible people will push the numbers up to 250, which will be laggy. The allience fleet are a gas that expands to fill the avliable volume
Tristan Acoma Caldari The Eleventh Commandment	Posted - 2006.08.02 22:51:00 - [216] Originally by: Sirkill Problam is CCP have fixxed this problem in the past. It used to be impossible to have 50 V 50. Then came the server upgrades, what happened? Alliences just increased the size of their fleets to fill the server capacity. And it will happen again, if CCP let 150 V 150 be possible people will push the numbers up to 250, which will be laggy. The allience fleet are a gas that expands to fill the avliable volume Unless, of course, they expand capacity to the point that they have no more ships left to throw into the fight. Who here wants to see a 8,000 v 8,000 ship battle? \Tristan sticks his hand up in the air \\slashies!
PeeWee Pee	Posted - 2006.08.02 22:57:00 - [217] Originally by: Tristan Acoma Unless, of course, they expand capacity to the point that they have no more ships left to throw into the fight. Who here wants to see a 8,000 v 8,000 ship battle? me dude. who wouldnt want to see that n00b. all dose ships to be sold and insurance to be collected.
Ezok Lyrad Minmatar SANDMADI EXPLORATION AND EXTRACTION KOMPANY	Posted - 2006.08.02 23:03:00 - [218] Originally by: Hanns Choibman Edited by: Hanns Choibman on 29/07/2006 01:59:16 Can CCP make some kind of official anouncment that if you are in an 0.0 system with 300+ players that their game will simply not be playable at all Or make some kind of recomendation that fleet battles do not work so if you want to be in an alliance you may as well quit. Do CCP realise that their game opens up possibilities for things that it cannot handle. Becasue I am a paying customer that plays by the rules and CCP's fine print basicaly states if our service can't handle it you are screwed in game. Besides the original incident of the game clagging up so bad I lost my precious T2 Raven, I am now in a pod with 800 billion cargo contianers in my overview repeatedly blowing up and appering in the same spot. I can't access any menus in game not even ESC menu, re logging or anything, and 300 people in system are all stuffed. A big banner or FAQ telling people to not to play with a group of friends larger than 10 in any system should be implemented soon I hope. The irony of my sig is not lost on me now, I think I have reached a new level of understanding ******************************************************* *******************************************************
Miss Overlord	Posted - 2006.08.03 02:01:00 - [219] Originally by: Tristan Acoma Originally by: Sirkill Problam is CCP have fixxed this problem in the past. It used to be impossible to have 50 V 50. Then came the server upgrades, what happened? Alliences just increased the size of their fleets to fill the server capacity. And it will happen again, if CCP let 150 V 150 be possible people will push the numbers up to 250, which will be laggy. The allience fleet are a gas that expands to fill the avliable volume Unless, of course, they expand capacity to the point that they have no more ships left to throw into the fight. Who here wants to see a 8,000 v 8,000 ship battle? \Tristan sticks his hand up in the air \\slashies! now that sounds interewting mmmmm
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.08.03 06:37:00 - [220] Originally by: Tristan Acoma Who here wants to see a 8,000 v 8,000 ship battle? you mean a 16,000 person insta-pop fest? nothanks. I doubt fleet fights are fun even right now. how fun can it be knowing that you could go in with a dread in siege mode, capital booster/reps, and officer hardeners, and still die instantly to the focus fire from the enemy fleet?
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2006.08.03 07:51:00 - [221] Originally by: Tristan Acoma Who here wants to see a 8,000 v 8,000 ship battle? Even if the server could handle it, I'd be impressed if there was a home PC out there that even stood a chance of actually rendering that scene in something that could be described as frames per second, rather than seconds per frame. Fleet command would also be a nightmare - there's no way you could pick your targets effectively from a list of 8000, it would have to reduce down to marching down the list by range/alphabetically/ship size etc. Also, consider the physical logistics of this. 16000 players fighting together is going to get very crowded. Assuming everyone will be trying to stay within 200km of everyone else, the most optimal packing would give a spacing of about 10km between ships. But the chances of getting 16000 players co-ordinated like that is very slim, especially when they'll be going at each other rather than cooperating. Probably wouldn't need bubbles, the bumping would effectively scramble everyone. It would be an impressive achievement, but I doubt it would actually be much fun. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.03 08:00:00 - [222] Originally by: Dinique Originally by: ParMizaN Spamming a thread will get you nowhere, CCP know the problem, and you know it too. Stop making the biggest fleets possible and spamming bubbles or whatever. Speak with your opponent and sort out something which will reduce the lag a bit. Are you serious? Take a moment, if you will, and consider how well THAT would work. If you really are serious, you need a reality check. Works better then taking fleets you know the server can't handle and then *****ing on the forums when it doesn't handle them.
Nina Mires Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.07 21:07:00 - [223] With the amount of people buy GTC's for real money i'm sure you can all chip in for another IBM blade (one without ide laptop hard-drives) so you can have a node for yourself. Nina ---------
Laendra	Posted - 2006.08.09 11:15:00 - [224] I would hope that future optimizations of the load balancing code would include the ability to efficiently and effectively indicate a number of systems that are known ahead of time to be major fleet battle sites, and seamlessly dedicate resources on the days indicated by the alliance leaderships. This single bit of code would eliminate a TON of issues related to fleet battles and make the game more playable and more enjoyable for everyone involved (except those that use exploits/game mechanics to purposely INCREASE the lag in the target system to make it harder on the other side), as I am sure that nobody likes to lose their ship because they were blown up before they ever loaded up after warping/jumping into a location...(isn't there a way to make someone invulnerable/untargetable until they load up???) -------------------
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.08.09 13:19:00 - [225] Edited by: FireFoxx80 on 09/08/2006 13:22:00 Originally by: Oveur However, I emphasize, a node needs more load than a couple of hours of 300 pilots one day a week to get any serious escalation in load factor, so this isn't going to solve the very sporadic battles, but should help systems which get regular fleet battle usage. So having battles in predictable places, or having our fleets hanging around in the same systems; will gradually cause the cluster to assign more resources to us? Edit: Actually the geeks amongst us would love to see the average loads for the systems... say over the previous 12 months? You could probably publish the data as Kali1 hits, the new 8 regions are likely to shift 0.0 balances somewhat, so the data would no longer be tactical.
coldplasma	Posted - 2006.08.09 14:08:00 - [226] lol I think it's quite funny how all of the noobs and traders are clustered around the one dreaded system, Jita. As far as the Goons are concerned, the only thing I have to say is that is it's kind of ironic that the people who run around regularly with huge unneccessary fleets, are now complaining about the amount of people in local systems. ____________________________ See you in 0.0 kids...
Boonaki Caldari Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.08.09 14:59:00 - [227] Originally by: Nina Mires With the amount of people buy GTC's for real money i'm sure you can all chip in for another IBM blade (one without ide laptop hard-drives) so you can have a node for yourself. Nina You know, I'd buy my own node if CCP gave me the chance. Pick a system I'm going to be in. Tell them I want the resources of said node applied to that system. Imagine an alliance fund raiser, everyone donating $5.00 extra to CCP for their own nodes that the resources would be dictated by the fleet commanders. I know it would never work, the fleet commander with the deep pocketed people would always win as the agressor. Fear the Ibis of doom!
Kylania Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:05:00 - [228] Originally by: FireFoxx80 Actually the geeks amongst us would love to see the average loads for the systems... say over the previous 12 months? I'm guessing that those numbers wouldn't be as bad as you think they will be. A few hours, even dozens of hours, of heavy load over the course of 12 months is nothing. Just at the time it sure seems like it is! -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap \| Visual Building Guide (Both work in game too!)
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:21:00 - [229] Originally by: Kylania Originally by: FireFoxx80 Actually the geeks amongst us would love to see the average loads for the systems... say over the previous 12 months? I'm guessing that those numbers wouldn't be as bad as you think they will be. A few hours, even dozens of hours, of heavy load over the course of 12 months is nothing. Just at the time it sure seems like it is! Yup (23 * 365) / (fleet-battles-time).
Nedia	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:46:00 - [230] we have focus attacks because we have a cool overview where its really easy select your target, if overview doesnt exist then will be impossible do focus attacks ^^
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.09 17:04:00 - [231] Originally by: Nedia we have focus attacks because we have a cool overview where its really easy select your target, if overview doesnt exist then will be impossible do focus attacks ^^ That does not really make sense. Any targetting system which enables you to target one player, regardless of the mechanism used, will enable everyone else to target the same player. Focused fire won't reduce. Diminishing return on focused fire, a 'stacking penalty' for targetting if you will, is a far more attractive option which WILL result in a huge change to fleets. Perhaps we will develop more sophisticated tactics than sitting at 160km popping single ships as fast as possible. Which everyone knows is boring an unrewarding PvP.
Cindy Marco Solar Storm Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.09 19:08:00 - [232] Originally by: Tristan Acoma Originally by: Sirkill Problam is CCP have fixxed this problem in the past. It used to be impossible to have 50 V 50. Then came the server upgrades, what happened? Alliences just increased the size of their fleets to fill the server capacity. And it will happen again, if CCP let 150 V 150 be possible people will push the numbers up to 250, which will be laggy. The allience fleet are a gas that expands to fill the avliable volume Unless, of course, they expand capacity to the point that they have no more ships left to throw into the fight. Who here wants to see a 8,000 v 8,000 ship battle? \Tristan sticks his hand up in the air \\slashies! I wonder if CCP will sell the Tickets, I want to be able to say I was there, when Tranquility caught on fire.
Shamad Conde Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.08.09 19:59:00 - [233] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Nedia we have focus attacks because we have a cool overview where its really easy select your target, if overview doesnt exist then will be impossible do focus attacks ^^ That does not really make sense. Any targetting system which enables you to target one player, regardless of the mechanism used, will enable everyone else to target the same player. Focused fire won't reduce. Diminishing return on focused fire, a 'stacking penalty' for targetting if you will, is a far more attractive option which WILL result in a huge change to fleets. Perhaps we will develop more sophisticated tactics than sitting at 160km popping single ships as fast as possible. Which everyone knows is boring an unrewarding PvP. If you bring diminishing returns into targetting you will simply force ppl to warp in snipe 1-2 targets and warp out again. Problem solved. Less fun, less battle, no thanks. There is no easy way to solve the focused fire issue simply because it is wanted player interaction. Otherwise we could simply make a system similar to autopilot (battlepilot B) which you push and lean back. Eve always should be about skill, coordination and experience. Even in huge fleetbattles not every bit of information is explained lenghly (i.e. jamming targets for 10+ scorps). Most huge fights has a few names called and thats it, lets not mystify it.
Jotan Veer Wings of Turul Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.11 11:52:00 - [234] Originally by: Oveur However, I emphasize, a node needs more load than a couple of hours of 300 pilots one day a week to get any serious escalation in load factor, so this isn't going to solve the very sporadic battles, but should help systems which get regular fleet battle usage. How about adding more triggers than just pilot count? Like dreads starting to shoot a POS or 20+ capital ships jumping into the same system is a pretty good indication that there is a siege going on. If it takes 300 pilots to basically live in a system for days to get the servers' load balancing thingy to take notice then you will make the surprise capital ship attacks impossible, or at least very costly and ineffective.
Lazuran	Posted - 2006.08.14 18:40:00 - [235] Originally by: Nedia we have focus attacks because we have a cool overview where its really easy select your target, if overview doesnt exist then will be impossible do focus attacks ^^ Wrong, they could just add an /assist command ;-) (= target whatever the gang mate I've currently selected is targeting, for those who haven't played WoW)

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