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Shaelin Corpius Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.30 22:23:00 - [151] You know why you've never experienced this kinda lag before? Cause you have been playing eve for about 5 minutes. The lag you speak of is totally normal when you stack 300+ in one system. And yes its your fault. Your blob with 200 people at all times mentality has forced your opponents to counter your super lag tactic with the only defense, more lag. You see there is a circle of lag and it can work in your favor untill you bring it to the right level. In which the lag crosses the threshold full circle to bite you in the bum. Quit the zerging. Drop your force sizes down. Come to an agreement between sides. GS best 20 v D2 best 20. Oh wait thats right, GS would get spanked. You rely on the zerg lag, pure numbers with minimal skills. Valid tactic, but you get what you ask for. We vets have witnessed this lag many a many time, as bad and worse as you speak of. So either A. stfu and deal with it, or B. Don't bring 50000000 people in a system and complain about lag.
eaglerare GalacTECH Unlimited	Posted - 2006.07.30 22:27:00 - [152] Marshalled python objects FTL. This is a typical example of consumer demand outweighs developer and system/network engineer incompetence. Will it get fixed? Sure, but on their own timeline. They know that you will keep paying every month and that your love for the game gives them an almost infinite timeline to solve the issues. As far as admitting there was lag, it is not in their advantage to do so.
Arath Veduran Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.30 22:34:00 - [153] Originally by: Shaelin Corpius The lag you speak of is totally normal when you stack 300+ in one system. And yes its your fault. Your blob with 200 people at all times mentality has forced your opponents to counter your super lag tactic with the only defense, more lag. Both sides had large amounts of people in system. In US prime time, we outnumbered D2 and friends. In Euro prime time, they outnumbered us. Yet somehow, it's always our fault.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.07.30 22:37:00 - [154] Originally by: Shaelin Corpius The lag you speak of is totally normal when you stack 300+ in one system. No it's not.
Nova Cygni GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.30 22:50:00 - [155] Edited by: Nova Cygni on 30/07/2006 22:51:33 Edited by: Nova Cygni on 30/07/2006 22:50:32 Originally by: Shaelin Corpius Edited by: Shaelin Corpius on 30/07/2006 22:27:35 You know why you've never experienced this kinda lag before? Cause you have been playing eve for about 5 minutes. The lag you speak of is totally normal when you stack 300+ in one system. And yes its your fault. Your blob with 200 people at all times mentality has forced your opponents to counter your super lag tactic with the only defense, more lag. You see there is a circle of lag and it can work in your favor untill you bring it to the right level. In which the lag crosses the threshold full circle to bite you in the bum. Quit the zerging. Drop your force sizes down. Come to an agreement between sides. GS best 20 v D2 best 20. Oh wait thats right, GS would get spanked. You rely on the zerg lag, pure numbers with minimal skills. Valid tactic, but you get what you ask for. We vets have witnessed this lag many a many time, as bad and worse as you speak of. So either A. stfu and deal with it, or B. Don't bring 50000000 people in a system and complain about lag. Btw that comment of "I've had lag and could warp out" and we were stuck for 5 hours. BIG DEAL. You ain't seen **. thats nothing. Wait till your stuck for like 2-3 days then tell me you know something of this OMG problem you speak of. Most of us don't give a rats ass because we've been there, done that, had it way worse than what you are *ing about. You broke the system, and this is what happens, now go play WoW untill they fix it. Your "epic battle" isn't anything new. You did it to yourself. Are you playing the same game as the rest of us? Are you reading this same forum? Are you off in some mystical other universe? We have been having fleet battles OVER this size in XZH FOR A MONTH. Try to think about that before you go "HUuuurrrrr, its your fault for brining in such a big fleet, hurrrrr" You dont know anything about this conflict, you dont know anything about XZH as made perfectly clear by your post, and apparently you play 'lala eve' where you are prefectly welcome to click on threads made about problems and flame them without even knowing in the slightest what you are talking about. Heres a hot tip, why did you even read this thread if you have no interest in reading it? How did you make it to page 5? Why do you think alliances that number in the thousands should '20 v 20' to decide something the whole alliance will use? Seriously, go back to high fiveing fmercury and **ing over how rad you guys are, or something. "we vets"... ha. Ive been playing for 6 months and i already know more than your 'hardcore vet' ass about lag in this area. Thats pretty pathetic. How about you let D2/RZR/YouWhat/GS/SMASH/OC deal with this, since we were there. Whodathunkit!
Yeep GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.30 23:02:00 - [156] While fielding numerous 50 man gangs across various systems might be fun, its inevitable in alliance warfare that someone will jump a 150 man fleet into one of your 50 man gangs, lagging out the system to the point where none of your other 50 man gangs are able to reinforce them. When the objective is to take or hold a system, do you really expect alliances to jump in equal numbers in order to obtain the unobtainable "fair fight"?
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.30 23:33:00 - [157] Originally by: Nova Cygni rwoar! That's some good e-rage there, goon Seven hour lag beginning at the start of a cruical op for us does indeed suck, but whatever - it happened and it sucked and someone who wasn't there told us to deal with it. That's hardly ohnoes.
Shiraz Merlot Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.07.30 23:58:00 - [158] Originally by: eaglerare Marshalled python objects FTL. This is a typical example of consumer demand outweighs developer and system/network engineer incompetence. Will it get fixed? Sure, but on their own timeline. They know that you will keep paying every month and that your love for the game gives them an almost infinite timeline to solve the issues. As far as admitting there was lag, it is not in their advantage to do so. Go away and come back when you've read Eve's backend protocol specification.
Shiraz Merlot Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.07.30 23:58:00 - [159] Edited by: Shiraz Merlot on 30/07/2006 23:58:39 edit: doubleposts ftl
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.31 00:07:00 - [160] Originally by: Shaelin Corpius The lag you speak of is totally normal when you stack 300+ in one system. And yes its your fault. Your blob with 200 people at all times mentality has forced your opponents to counter your super lag tactic with the only defense, more lag. Instead of throwing random bullcrap i invite you to XZH. Today, tomorrow - whenever you wish. Enter, look at local=100 or so, FEEL the lag. Yes - that system is STILL broken after 2 downtimes and lag is VERY heavy all around it. Undocking from 9-4 station took me abt 2-3 minutes where even in Jita with 600ppl local (lookit! jita had more ppl than XZH!) it takes abt 10 seconds TOP. Also maybe you are too young to know but there were some similiar or even larger battles (the one i best remember is BKG from D2 vs ERA times) - also 300+ ppl, ALSO goons were there but actually we COULD fight! Surprise! So 300ppl =/= 300ppl? new maths?
eaglerare GalacTECH Unlimited	Posted - 2006.07.31 01:40:00 - [161] Originally by: Shiraz Merlot Originally by: eaglerare Marshalled python objects FTL. This is a typical example of consumer demand outweighs developer and system/network engineer incompetence. Will it get fixed? Sure, but on their own timeline. They know that you will keep paying every month and that your love for the game gives them an almost infinite timeline to solve the issues. As far as admitting there was lag, it is not in their advantage to do so. Go away and come back when you've read Eve's backend protocol specification. You must work for Lucent Technologies. Way to use condescending yet irrelevant statements to blow smoke over an issue.
eaglerare GalacTECH Unlimited	Posted - 2006.07.31 01:41:00 - [162] Edited by: eaglerare on 31/07/2006 01:41:10
Shaelin Corpius Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.31 02:37:00 - [163] Oh really? Im not an elite vet who hasn't been there and done that? And Im getting this from anyone in GS? 3+ solid pvp years doesn't constitute a veteran then were all a bunch a **in noobs First off, I've been ingame since the beginning, I've been involved in a majority of every important war this game has seen. Im sure the system is borked. But its not the first time its happened. It sucks to be stuck and one of your main objective war fronts basically unplayable. But seriously. How many 0.0 systems do you know of that act like this when more than 50 people jump in it? Answer: ALOT. Especially systems with stations and a number of POS. GO jump 100 people into BWF with the 50 large pos and station, tell me you don't get crazy bugs lag and what not. Don't *** at me when you know both sides are at fault for breaking it. You have people crying at ccp. Broken systems have been around for years. You just happened to drop a big gang in em and live there. I guess no one remembers having to petition for stuck all the damn time back in the day. And sometimes get freed early and sometimes had to wait for days. Just because I wasn't there doesn't mean I haven't had that EXACT same experience before. Oh btw GS you suck. <img src="http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/bdci-geis/Shaelin_Corpius_%5BCONIN%5D_-_Friends.jpg">
ShadowImage Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.31 02:55:00 - [164] Originally by: Shaelin Corpius Oh really? Im not an elite vet who hasn't been there and done that? And Im getting this from anyone in GS? 3+ solid pvp years doesn't constitute a veteran then were all a bunch a **in noobs First off, I've been ingame since the beginning, I've been involved in a majority of every important war this game has seen. Im sure the system is borked. But its not the first time its happened. It sucks to be stuck and one of your main objective war fronts basically unplayable. But seriously. How many 0.0 systems do you know of that act like this when more than 50 people jump in it? Answer: ALOT. Especially systems with stations and a number of POS. GO jump 100 people into BWF with the 50 large pos and station, tell me you don't get crazy bugs lag and what not. Don't *** at me when you know both sides are at fault for breaking it. You have people crying at ccp. Broken systems have been around for years. You just happened to drop a big gang in em and live there. I guess no one remembers having to petition for stuck all the damn time back in the day. And sometimes get freed early and sometimes had to wait for days. Just because I wasn't there doesn't mean I haven't had that EXACT same experience before. Oh btw GS you suck. Way to be a troll. You weren't there, so you don't know what you're talking about. This was not normal "too many people oh god slow load" lag. The system completely collapsed for over 8 hours. GMs spent many of those hours moving people out of the system to other regions, because it was that broken. Please go away and leave this thread be. By the by, news flash for you, RAZOR Alliance is not part of GoonSwarm. Regardless of how you feel about GS, though it seems you feel the need to point it out here, this thread was a discussion of a serious problem by both sides of the fight. It was not a matter of GS vs D2. This was GS and D2 reporting a serious problem to the staff and other players who may experience it.
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.31 03:04:00 - [165] Originally by: Shaelin Corpius Oh really? Im not an elite vet who hasn't been there and done that? And Im getting this from anyone in GS? 3+ solid pvp years doesn't constitute a veteran then were all a bunch a **in noobs Goddamn you have a large ego for a guy playing a computer game. I bet my tetris score is higher than yours. Quote: Don't * at me when you know both sides are at fault for breaking it. You have people crying at ccp. Broken systems have been around for years. You just happened to drop a big gang in em and live there. The systems being broken for years doesn't make them right, or it be ok that they're not fixed. This thread has just been made because the enjoyment of both sides in this game was ruined by some "broken systems that have been around for years". People playing a game a way it's perfectly allowed to play it and then to be peanalized by the "broken system" is a pretty good reason to "cry" to the company that you pay to play the game on. This having happened before doesn't make it ok now. Quote: Just because I wasn't there doesn't mean I haven't had that EXACT same experience before. If I understand your argument, it's "because this has happened to me before, you're not allowed to complain about it". Well, that's a pretty crappy line of reasoning, friend. Quote:** Oh btw GS you suck. no u
Gonger Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.31 03:47:00 - [166] Originally by: Shaelin Corpius words Basically, I think he's saying that CCP should just close down new player registration because none of us will ever have as many skillpoints as he does, and thus we don't deserve to play the game. or something.
Degaal Valen Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.31 03:53:00 - [167] Originally by: Shaelin Corpius Oh btw GS you suck. Game, set and match. Well played. Touche.
Ben Derindar Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.07.31 03:56:00 - [168] Edited by: Ben Derindar on 31/07/2006 03:57:31 Originally by: Crivens This having happened before doesn't make it ok now. Nor should it suddenly be much more important now that it's happening to you for the first time. Shaelin's point is that yes, this has happened in the past, and yes, much forum whinage happened on each occasion then as well, and no, not much resulted from it. Welcome to Eve. EDIT: grammar /Ben
Shaelin Corpius Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.31 03:59:00 - [169] And you call me a troll? Im just stating the facts of how systems tend to break. And its caused normally by an overload into the system. But your forum spam and twists of anything anyone says is amazing. You referenced me as a new player who hasn't done anything or didn't know what happened or hasn't had this same thing happen to me before. Therefore I responded with no Im not a n00b. I earned my goddamn stripes. At what point did I say for CCP to not allow new players and crap like that? Pure waste of text on your part, and nothing more than a troll. If you looked a little closer into the post. This is what it means. "Please chill out, they are trying to fix this. This isn't anything new thats never happened, so your not gonna get special treatment. You pay the same $ as everyone else, so don't ask for node memory that they have to take from other places in which other people may be using. Stop trying to kill this game for everyone else."
Shaelin Corpius Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.31 04:01:00 - [170] Originally by: Ben Derindar Edited by: Ben Derindar on 31/07/2006 03:57:31 Originally by: Crivens This having happened before doesn't make it ok now. Nor should it suddenly be much more important now that it's happening to you for the first time. Shaelin's point is that yes, this has happened in the past, and yes, much forum whinage happened on each occasion then as well, and no, not much resulted from it. Welcome to Eve. EDIT: grammar /Ben Thank you!!!! Someone who's been there, done that as well. Now go grief some other MMO Goons.
Cincle Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.31 06:31:00 - [171] Originally by: Shaelin Corpius If you looked a little closer into the post. This is what it means. "Please chill out, they are trying to fix this." Yes, all the "NO you broke the system with your blobs! Perhaps you should have played longer than 5 minutes! Perhaps you'll need to fight fair in smaller groups, oh no you can't you'll get SPANKED" sure sounds a lot like "Please chill out, they are trying to fix this."
Toffles GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.31 07:05:00 - [172] Edited by: Toffles on 31/07/2006 07:05:30 argh, my post.
Toffles GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.31 07:18:00 - [173] Originally by: Shaelin Corpius And you call me a troll? Im just stating the facts of how systems tend to break. And its caused normally by an overload into the system. But your forum spam and twists of anything anyone says is amazing. Uh, no you are trolling. No need to twist anything with choice quotes like this: "You know why you've never experienced this kinda lag before? Cause you have been playing eve for about 5 minutes." "And yes its your fault. Your blob with 200 people at all times mentality has forced your opponents to counter your super lag tactic with the only defense, more lag." "Oh wait thats right, GS would get spanked. You rely on the zerg lag, pure numbers with minimal skills." "You broke the system, and this is what happens, now go play WoW untill they fix it." "Your "epic battle" isn't anything new. You did it to yourself." "Oh btw GS you suck." "But your forum spam and twists of anything anyone says is amazing." "Stop trying to kill this game for everyone else" "Now go grief some other MMO Goons." Basically in a thread that has nothing to do with you, or your corp, you come in here and bring in flames, condescending "ur a n00b, u dont know anything" crap, and good old fashioned trolling. By the way the whole "this lag is totally normal u noob" argument is completely wrong. Oveur visited XZH today and was telling us that something was wrong with the system and that the programmers needed to look into it. He said the server wasn't prioritizing the system the way it should, and it wasn't getting the resources it was supposed to. So, uh, yeah I guess you could argue your points with Oveur but he'd probably just make you look stupid.
kleine biene	Posted - 2006.07.31 10:57:00 - [174] @ goons It looks like u get Killed by your own Tactics.. and start whining now that u had loose XZH Or u dont have launch all drones to produce such a lag that it was easy to kill ? mmh no clue
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.31 11:19:00 - [175] Originally by: Ben Derindar Nor should it suddenly be much more important now that it's happening to you for the first time. Whether it's more important or not does not mean that two alliances made up of many corporations should be trolled for posting about an issue in the corporation and alliance discussion forum about an issue which spoiled their enjoyment of a game they paid for. Neh? Quote: Shaelin's point is that yes, this has happened in the past, and yes, much forum whinage happened on each occasion then as well, and no, not much resulted from it. That's a point I can get behind. Some vets should have come in here and told us newer players about some epic battles from the past, ones when servers crashed and empires changed hands and there was much wailing and knashing of teeth. These things are great to read about. To come in here telling newer players running into an issue for the first time to "stfu noob" is unconstuctive and insulting. Frankly, "vets", if you're going to claim goons are runining your forums, then you either need to be better than us or stop being hypocritical.
Vulcyrik Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.31 11:21:00 - [176] Edited by: Vulcyrik on 31/07/2006 11:22:07 Originally by: kleine biene @ goons It looks like u get Killed by your own Tactics.. and start whining now that u had loose XZH Or u dont have launch all drones to produce such a lag that it was easy to kill ? mmh no clue Yes you discovered our master plan to lag out the entire system right before we needed to bring in dreads to knock out POSs to avoid loosing Sov. Cause we all know how much lag helps the dreads in a POS killing attempt. Also, note above where it is mentioned even the Devs have surveyed the server activity and concluded that the resource allocating software is not working and the XZH node was not getting the resource priority that it should have. This is of coures the goons fault, as we have obviously paid off a programmer to cause us to loose our own prime-time eliminating any chance of keeping the XZH system.
DeadDuck Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.31 11:33:00 - [177] Nobody is to blame about the lag in XZH... Both sides were filling the biggest numbers possible there during this weekend... it was the last chance to Goons before they the loose sov. there, D2+RZR+YW+friends filled a very big fleet there to oppose Goons attack. The cluster didnt manage to handle the numbers.. quite simple
Maxim Powers GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.31 18:50:00 - [178] Since this went a little off topic with flaming and such, I'd like to steer it back towards the important points of this whole discussion, is that large fleet battle lag is normal- I've participated in many large scale battles and the lag is bad, but expected. The problem with XZH went beyond this, in that even after the battle, the system remained broken for hours, and problematic until downtime. Truly, for 2+ hours after the big engagement at the gate, you could not do ANYTHING in system and were met with the 'you cannot do this while warping' message. After that problem had gone away, every few times you'd warp from one grid to another you'd run into the same bug and have to relog to fix it. If you were there, it was entertaining because we went from fighting each other to the shared camraderie of being stuck together with the common enemy of the server. I think i said it in another thread, but it was like being stuck in an elevator with strangers. The problem of the system being broken goes beyond any typical fleet battle lag, and should definately be looked into by the code-slinging monkeys at CCP.
Shaelin Corpius Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.31 18:51:00 - [179] I apologize for the abrupt trolls towards the members involved in this. I was just reading through the posts and noticed that the vast majority of posts were about how this is such a singular event that has never happened before and we need some special treatment. My reply may have been a little harsh and for that I'm sorry. In the meantime. This does happen and will continue to happen throughout eve, so you do need to get used to it. Like everyone else your petition has to sit in line behind the next guy until the problem gets solved. CCP won't favor you just cause your bigger and feel more important. I remember an eve system crash in which a bunch of us involved were inable to play for a couple days while other eve denizens wen't on in other places. 50 Topics and 5000 posts later solved nothing and turned into a big troll fest which is what is happening here. I urge you to read back a couple years into the forums and find how many times this situation has happened. I"m sure you'll find a few dozen of them.
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.01 09:28:00 - [180] A weird thing was though that it didn't get fixed at downtime or so. Yesterday after DT I was gonna take my ship out of system. 30 people on local it was and it was still a 4 second module lag experience. I really do wonder if POS aren't a crucial factor in this.

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