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deadEd	Posted - 2006.07.29 11:22:00 - [91] Originally by: Shirei I guess GF are learning that lag goes both ways... Actually they've been pretty much trying to hammer that point down since the earliest days of XZH (and likely before).
Shirei Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.29 11:26:00 - [92] Originally by: deadEd Originally by: Shirei I guess GF are learning that lag goes both ways... Actually they've been pretty much trying to hammer that point down since the earliest days of XZH (and likely before). You have been missing my point though. In POS fights, lag always favours the defender. Initially, GF were effectively the defender since D2 and friends had barely any POS in system to keep sov. Now this has changed and GF would have to attack - which they can't effectively due to lag.
Shiraz Merlot Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.07.29 11:45:00 - [93] Originally by: Shirei Initially, GF were effectively the defender since D2 and friends had barely any POS in system to keep sov. Now this has changed and GF would have to attack - which they can't effectively due to lag. Grand Theft Starbase probably doesn't help them much either :D
insolace GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 11:45:00 - [94] Edited by: insolace on 29/07/2006 11:46:55 lag killed the entire system for 8 hours (of our primetime). in previous encounters the lag has ended at the end of the engagement. This is the first time I've been in a situation where for 4 hours NO ONE in system (from either side) could move, whether they logged and relogged or not, and then for the next 4 hours they would lag out every 20 seconds. we were winning the battle at the 9-4 gate when everything freezed. We had been fighting successfully for 2 minutes before the lag began. Why would we try to intentionally lag the system when we were about to win the battle, take the gate, and begin our dread assaults? Instead we lost the ability to do any work for our entire primetime.
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.29 12:42:00 - [95] Edited by: Fred0 on 29/07/2006 12:42:13 Originally by: insolace we were winning the battle at the 9-4 gate when everything freezed. We had been fighting successfully for 2 minutes before the lag began. Why would we try to intentionally lag the system when we were about to win the battle, take the gate, and begin our dread assaults? Instead we lost the ability to do any work for our entire primetime. Dude, in the beginning of an engagement you will always think you are winning simply because the odds look so stacked by the number of goons. I'm sorry but it takes more than 2 minutes to kill a whole uncoordinated rabble. It's the end of fleetbattles that counts and that's when we normally come out on top against you fellas atleast.

Ivan Kirilenkov	Posted - 2006.07.29 13:08:00 - [96] Please note that you need to have your alliance/corp status shown in order to participate in this forum, as per the rules. Also, there is a difference between the paid CCP-staff who are responsible for servers etc, and the volunteers that are responsible for moderating the forums (CRC, aka. mods).

Guatama GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 13:34:00 - [97] Edited by: Guatama on 29/07/2006 13:34:42 Whoever was winning or losing is irrelevant to the fact that the server going haywire destroyed any opportunity for either side to put their plans in the action. I aplaud D2 for the stand up fight they were giving us at the gate, and it seemed like it would have been a prelude to more excellent combat to come over the weekend. Instead, thanks to the fact that XZH was completely dead, all of our plans to attack their POSs and maintain sovereignty (and no doubt their plans to stop us) went out the window. Whether we would've been succesful is unimportant, thanks to the server issue we weren't even allowed to make the attempt, and it's a shame that that's how it went down.
Gramtar GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 14:40:00 - [98] It's dissapointing that the most fun I've had in an MMORPG (battling for CR over the last month), ends this way. On many occasions in the short time I've played EVE, I've seen Tranquility (or messages about specific regions being) rebooted. Apparently, last night's problems didn't warrant any action by CCP server technicians. CCP owes D2, GoonSwarm, and our allies an apology, and an explanation why nothing was done to correct the problem before downtime. CCP owes all EVE players what their plans on to support fleet engagements over conquerable space, given the design of those systems today (XZH-4X has 80 moons, and at least one other system in Prelle has an obscene amount as well). Also, CCP needs to clarify how they support a worldwide game when hundreds of people file "stuck" petitions in 1 system and nothing is done except waiting for downtime. If no one in authority is available to make a decision about rebooting between 0300 and 1100 on a weekend, they should reorganize their support department or stop marketing their game worldwide. These are my personal views and do not represent my Corporation or Alliance
eddie valvetino Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.29 14:42:00 - [99] think it's bad today having really bad issues logging on (\_/) (O.o) (> <)
Yeep GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 15:53:00 - [100] Originally by: Shirei I guess GF are learning that lag goes both ways... When it was them holding more POS and D2 had to destroy them, lag gave GF a few successes. Now that D2 has the POS advantage, it is them who get the advantage from the lag. How is this anything other than a troll? If you had read the thread you would have seen that no POSes were being sieged and that both sides are frustrated and upset with what happened.
Plutoinum Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.29 17:19:00 - [101] Edited by: Plutoinum on 29/07/2006 17:19:47 Good thing is, the more people experience it, the less people will call you 'whiner' next time, when you just mention the word 'lag' in a single sentence. I've experienced those things myself in fleet battles at POS, like not being able to navigate, target anything, activate modules for minutes or still getting combat messages, after the fight has already been over for a long time etc.
Zimi Vlasic F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.07.29 17:28:00 - [102] Last night the gang I was in didn't even bother trying to get into XZH as we were getting regular updates as to the horrors in that system. I finally got bored and logged after about 2 hrs.
Myal Terego PAX Interstellar Services Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.07.29 17:34:00 - [103] Fleet battles are a mess anyways, you get more than 50 on each side, and you can expect a complete lagout most of the time. We all blame each other of bookmark bombs and all that other crap, but im pretty sure its just the client was never initially desgined to handle that kind of load in one location. Perhaps if they ever get us a new engine or total redesign of the client it will work alot better, until then I wouldnt put much faction gear on, when your about to have a 100 vs 100 fleet fight. Just the after fight scavengers from both sides are going to get it hehe.
Deichel	Posted - 2006.07.29 18:26:00 - [104] Edited by: Deichel on 29/07/2006 18:27:59
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Faaip De Oiad	Posted - 2006.07.29 18:29:00 - [105] Originally by: Deichel Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov Please note that you need to have your alliance/corp status shown in order to participate in this forum, as per the rules. Also, there is a difference between the paid CCP-staff who are responsible for servers etc, and the volunteers that are responsible for moderating the forums (CRC, aka. mods). Sad part is that instead of addressing the issue, you harp about forum rules, LOL hilarious, I have an idea, instead of making stupid card games fix the damn gameplay issues. Unbeleivable. do you seriously expect that the gamecard-designers have a clue about the cluster structure/hard- and software?? ... and ISD mods are only (voluntary) forum moderators .. so be nice to 'em ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Ilvari GoonFleet	Posted - 2006.07.29 21:09:00 - [106] In the end it's just ridiculous from a technical standpoint. The lag doesn't even seem to be network congestion, because there's no way TCP would back up packets by the 10 minutes the game sometimes takes to react. It looks more like the server is coded in such a shoddy way that a few hundred players in a node overwhelms the software, queues up instructions and from then on the game is just dead. Something like that isn't even that hard to fix, but given CCPs track record of fixing bugs (sorting in escrow is still bugged after 3 years despite Quicksort being an exercise for first semester IT students) they will probably never get the game working properly in fleet combat I don't know why that is. It certainly doesnt look like their programmers are busy with something else, Kali has been in development for like 2 years too.
Sorja Les amis de Marcel	Posted - 2006.07.29 21:57:00 - [107] I suggested like 7 monthes ago that when a lot of people are in a system they are all moved to a dedicated 'arena server'. How would this work? - only for 0.0 - when more than 150 pilots are in a same system, all pilots receive a warning that they are going to be teleported and no high slot module can be activated anymore. - five minutes after the warning, all pilots in the system and all pilots entering the system jump to the arena system instead of the crowded system. - the arena system has a single gate, to get out of it you must go through that gate. Logging off in the arena system blows the ship up.
Yeep GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 22:07:00 - [108] Originally by: Sorja - the arena system has a single gate, to get out of it you must go through that gate. Logging off in the arena system blows the ship up. This is stupid. You want to punish people for crashing or having to go deal with real life by destroying their ship? How about if this magical arena server also lags and people want to go do something else they have to sacrifice their ship. Not to mention that by forcing any 0.0 system with more than 150 people you completely remove the ability of alliances to accomplish things relevant to the system itself. Believe it or not, there are other reasons for having that many people in one place besides fleet battles.
goze GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.29 22:08:00 - [109] Some of you really don't understand the extent of the lag. I've seen fleet battle lag, and I think everyone who was at that fight has experience with fleet battle lag and accepts that it will happen. This was not fleet battle lag. This was "hey guys we broke the server" lag. This was "I know that I've been lagged for at least an hour because if I divide the distance I am from the gate by my ship velocity I see that I've been going 3700 m/s for 70 minutes now" lag. This was "oh look, it's over four hours later and everyone in the system is still intermittently crashing over and over ever few minutes" lag. Something flat out broke last night, and it'd be nice to get an explanation even if this isn't the forum for it.
Furnok Dorn Jita Highway Patrol	Posted - 2006.07.29 22:20:00 - [110] The Jita Highway Patrol is investigating this incident and will soon have the culprit brought to swift groin-grabbingly delicious justice.
duckmonster GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.30 00:08:00 - [111] yesterday was a big of a disapointment. I log on to join the fun and the ships there, Im not getting any client-side fps lag or anything like that, but nothing worked ON LOGIN, and Im stuck 1au from the POS unable to do anything except look at my ship. What I saw last night wasnt lag, it was a genuinely broken system. Interestingly, both our boys and the D2/Iron guys had a nice friendly chat, with no smack or anything, and after all this unfortunate drama lately, that was refreshing to see folks being good people to each other for a change. Big ups to D2/Iron for that.
Archonon Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.30 00:41:00 - [112] Originally by: Sorja I suggested like 7 monthes ago that when a lot of people are in a system they are all moved to a dedicated 'arena server'. How would this work? - only for 0.0 - when more than 150 pilots are in a same system, all pilots receive a warning that they are going to be teleported and no high slot module can be activated anymore. - five minutes after the warning, all pilots in the system and all pilots entering the system jump to the arena system instead of the crowded system. - the arena system has a single gate, to get out of it you must go through that gate. Logging off in the arena system blows the ship up. Do that with the 400ppl in JITA ! put them all in an arena or anywhere in the galaxy. Lag wawe was detected in tribute where locals wasn't able to fire on smthg even if we were able to lock at 25 a.u Strange phenomen _______________________ Exitus Acta Probat
insolace GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.30 00:51:00 - [113] Edited by: insolace on 30/07/2006 00:53:11 Edited by: insolace on 30/07/2006 00:51:50 http://eric.frap.net/eve/XZH%20lag%20-%20at%20the%20battle2.wmv There's footage of the lag during the battle. As you can see there is 0 client side lag. In the video I am stuck at 0.0m/s, I can activate modules but i cannot move or change directions. I zoom in on an enemy fighter which is suspended in space, perfectly animated, not actually moving anywhere. I then zoom in on D2, same situation - you have ships just frozen, one of which is stuck targeting me. These conditions lasted for THREE HOURS and did not clear up. Logging off and back in did not change the stuck situation. These conditions were experienced by everyone in system and on grid, and they lasted for THREE HOURS. When a GM finally moved me to station, undocking produced the following results: http://eric.frap.net/eve/XZH%20-%20moved%20to%20station,%20undocked2.wmv no that video is not broken. I sat there doing the undock dance for 10 minutes before relogging, to find the EXACT SAME CONDITIONS. Finally something "happened" and people found themselves to move, for about 20 seconds at a time before having to relog, at which point they could move for another 20 seconds at a time, before having to relog again for another 20 seconds of flight. These conditions lasted until downtime. Total time lost - 8 hours during goonswarms primetime, during a weekend op that was crucial to us potentially keeping XZH.
Sorja Les amis de Marcel	Posted - 2006.07.30 02:29:00 - [114] Originally by: Yeep Not to mention that by forcing any 0.0 system with more than 150 people you completely remove the ability of alliances to accomplish things relevant to the system itself. Believe it or not, there are other reasons for having that many people in one place besides fleet battles. Good one Since you can't do nothing because the servers can't (and probably will never) handle fleet fights, it's either that or live with the lag. If overloaded systems are transfered to dedicated heavy load systems, once the fight is over then you can do what you have to do, be it defend or attack. The exit gate will only open if there are less than 150 people in the arena at which point the original system will open again. About losing your ship, I understand your frustration but I had my share of fleet battles where I received a loss killmail while still trying to fight in my ship, so it's much better to lose a ship because of a connection lost than losing it to lag. And it would happen less often. Way less! I wrote that because if players disconnecting don't lose their ship the system could lead to exploit, but these are just rough ideas, other implementations are of course possible. Feel free to add your own, and no 'fix the bloody servers' won't cut it, it's been worse and worse since Exodus. Castor was, IIRC, the last client where fleet battles were ok, maybe because we were less than 10.000 players at that time, CCP's techies know the answer.
Esaam DeVries Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.07.30 02:38:00 - [115] Edited by: Esaam DeVries on 30/07/2006 02:38:55 Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony. I'm enjoying every line of this thread. -- TRUST Shop : from T2 to Captital ship(yard)s. Shop smart, shop T-shop.
Toffles GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.30 02:54:00 - [116] Edited by: Toffles on 30/07/2006 02:54:32 Originally by: Esaam DeVries Edited by: Esaam DeVries on 30/07/2006 02:38:55 Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony. I'm enjoying every line of this thread. Troll somewhere else.
Esaam DeVries Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.07.30 03:01:00 - [117] Originally by: Toffles Edited by: Toffles on 30/07/2006 02:54:32 Originally by: Esaam DeVries Edited by: Esaam DeVries on 30/07/2006 02:38:55 Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony. I'm enjoying every line of this thread. Troll somewhere else. Dear sir, I do not believe your in position of giving me advice about trolling or Internet ethic. Yet, I could start to explain how when we did have serious issues in xzh all we heard was "acktivate petitionbooster" but I sense -somehow- it would be only a loss of time for both of us. Only thing you can do about it is petition your loss I guess and hope you don't get banned in the process. Good night and good luck. -- TRUST Shop : from T2 to Captital ship(yard)s. Shop smart, shop T-shop.
Tsanus Ilacante GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.30 03:31:00 - [118] Originally by: Esaam DeVries I do not believe you are in position of giving me advice about trolling or Internet ethic. Yet, I could start to explain how when we did have serious issues in xzh all we heard was "acktivate petitionbooster" but I sense -somehow- it would be only a loss of time for both of us. Only thing you can do about it is petition your loss I guess and hope you don't get banned in the process. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be offensive but at what point during the fighting did XZH crash completely and leave everyone unable to move for several hours? We know you had lag issues and so did we but there was absolutely nothing of this scale.
shivan Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.07.30 04:15:00 - [119] Just so everyone knows this is meant as a joke. I blame the lag on BoB. I'm not there and I don't know what it's like, but I have experenced it before. And it's not nice. But the lag does seem to follow those guys around. /me puts the colander on his head ----------------------------- Need a new sig. Mail me with offers and ideas. 50mill isk to the sig that I use.
Constantinee Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.30 04:24:00 - [120] Damn no ownder we couldent find any of you goonies in empire today....scratchs head Want a Cheap sig?

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