Rhavas posted a couple on twitter.

(hope these links work)

https://twitter.com/EVE_Rhavas/status/507778949745623040/photo/1

https://twitter.com/EVE_Rhavas/status/507778625974710272/photo/1

these are cap kills though

Rhavas posted a couple on twitter.

(hope these links work)

https://twitter.com/EVE_Rhavas/status/507778949745623040/photo/1

https://twitter.com/EVE_Rhavas/status/507778625974710272/photo/1

these are cap kills though

Clearly this graph with 2 months of data is the definitive answer we have all been searching for. I am sure the fact that there are only 2-3 weeks of high numbers compared to the last 2 weeks means nothing at all. I am also sure the 3 week decline preceding Hyperion are related to Hyperion as well.

Before you all grab your already overused pitchforks can we not use this lopsided small batched graph to ask CCP for more data to be released?

CCP Fozzie could do an amazing blog with all the WH data they have i am sure, but why would he want to with the level of hate that has been on these forums lately.

Clearly this graph with 2 months of data is the definitive answer we have all been searching for. I am sure the fact that there are only 2-3 weeks of high numbers compared to the last 2 weeks means nothing at all. I am also sure the 3 week decline preceding Hyperion are related to Hyperion as well.

yeah, im sure the trend is completely unrelated.
in fact, it's probably due to ROLO moving to nullsec....
give us a break mate

CCP Fozzie has some numbers. but thats obviously NDA

It is only NDA at their whim.

It is NDA because they know Hyperion was a failure of a release, and they don't like admitting they are wrong.

It is only NDA at their whim.

Its NDA cos its on the csm forum area. If it wasnt for the fact CCP Fozzie said he had got some data already I wouldn't even be able to say that much. Which really sucks. Hopefully I'll be able to say more soon, as I really dont like hiding stuff behind NDA.

I don't think numbers really show the true impact, there are none the less also going to be some players who use the new mechanics to their advantages which may offset some, even all of the trend - doesn't mean its a good thing.

Keep grasping at your pitchfork man, it's comments like this that are the reason they would have no incentive to release them.

The majority of you would spin any data to your already pre conceived conclusion about Hyperion.

I mean surely all of the high school and college kids returning to school, so they can't play all day had no impact because none of them live in WHs, right? No need to compare the numbers from last year to this one. Nah, that couldn't be it at all. It is 100% Hyperion.

Dunno about you. But my corp has actually seen an increase in activity since the summer holidays has ended, because people arent buggering around in the outernet.

So if the data shows what you want then it is good data, but if it doesn't prove your claim the data must be flawed because data be damned this is a bad thing. And like Win says you guys wonder why CCP doesn't tell you anything.

1 + 1 = 2
Pre-Hyperion cap kills vs post hyperion cap kills = numbers are down.
Don't know how you can spin the truth. Maybe make it a super truth? Better yet, spin it into cotton candy.

Learn statistics. You have an inconclusive sample without any dataset to compare it to for annual trends.

It shows a possible trend in that there is a drop that occurs at the same time as Hyperion. But without the previous years data sets, as well as data through the year we can't show if the trend is actually going to continue, or if the previous few weeks to Hyperion were in fact the exception and post Hyperion we have simply returned to the lower average value

We also don't know how much of this is actually due to the mechanics, and how much is due to player rage causing them to simply not even try regardless of the actual mechanics impact.

In short, insufficient data to make any meaningful conclusions.

We also don't know how much of this is actually due to the mechanics, and how much is due to player rage causing them to simply not even try regardless of the actual mechanics impact.

In short, insufficient data to make any meaningful conclusions.

CCP Fozzie could do an amazing blog with all the WH data they have i am sure, but why would he want to with the level of hate that has been on these forums lately.

Because if CCP had numbers that refuted the naysayers they'd release them in a heartbeat ... and the protests would come to an end (other than Dinsdale types of course) because the vast majority of players want Eve and CCP to succeed.

If numbers are truly down then hopefully CCP will change course, or be right in their belief that the short term pain will be worth it in the long run.

I watched a corp haul their **** out of W-space this weekend. Sad, and their killboard wasn't bad -- lot better than mine. They were in a C4 of course. :(

Actually not the case at all, we have been whining for a long time that nobody mines in WH space in the numbers they used to and they could have refuted us at any point on that and CCP Fozzie only used it as a reference point in the WH Townhall.

I think they are quite happy ignoring idiots.

Yeah that's my point though, nobody expects a CSM to be able to release it without approval. Am only asking CCP Fozzie to do the blog he said he might be able to come up with when he spoke at townhall.

i too would love to see a CCP blog regarding this but the reality is this is unlikely to happen if the numbers make them look bad which is pretty understandable tbh.

out of interest, what you you expect these numbers to show?

1 + 1 = 2

Pre-Hyperion cap kills vs post hyperion cap kills = numbers are down.


Don't know how you can spin the truth. Maybe make it a super truth? Better yet, spin it into cotton candy.

You need to math harder or i need to count like you.... 1+6-2x2=2? Right?

No correct answer is 3

Depends.

(1+6-2)x2=10
1+6-(2x2)=3
1+((6-2)x2)=9

A side note can also be that x denote a unknown and not multiplication.

1+6-2*x*2=2
If so then:
x=4/5

This should be spammed, retweeted, and rammed down cccp's (hehe) throat

I've heard about countless engagements that just didn't happen because of patch

#dontCensorMe
#becauseOfpatch

I'll be over in Iceland for the summit in a week so That may be a good chance to get alot of data and I'll be able to talk to them then and there about it.

As much as i dont like various changes there won't be any knee jerk reaction till we have solid information to attually act on

Can you also ask them to show comparative graphs between incursion NPCs killed in hisec, lowsec, and nullsec vs sleepers killed in each class of W-space, starting a year before incursions were introduced up to the present?

It might also be interesting to see a comparative graph between npcs killed in Nullsec regions for a year before the ESS to present and sleepers killed in each class of W-space over the same time, combining the graph with the incursions data as well.

Overall, while some of the Hyperion changes suck, they aren't bad enough to drive people out if the income was still good here. But if people were already thinking about moving out, these changes could have made up their minds for them.

The Hyperion changes aren't the problem, though they don't help. The problem is people starting to consider moving out in the first place.

Can you also ask them to show comparative graphs between incursion NPCs killed in hisec, lowsec, and nullsec vs sleepers killed in each class of W-space, starting a year before incursions were introduced up to the present?

It might also be interesting to see a comparative graph between npcs killed in Nullsec regions for a year before the ESS to present and sleepers killed in each class of W-space over the same time, combining the graph with the incursions data as well.

Overall, while some of the Hyperion changes suck, they aren't bad enough to drive people out if the income was still good here. But if people were already thinking about moving out, these changes could have made up their minds for them.

The Hyperion changes aren't the problem, though they don't help. The problem is people starting to consider moving out in the first place.

Before you all grab your already overused pitchforks can we not use this lopsided small batched graph to ask CCP for more data to be released?

CCP Fozzie could do an amazing blog with all the WH data they have i am sure, but why would he want to with the level of hate that has been on these forums lately.

Where's the point to look at comperative graphs on differnt kind of NPC kills?

Food chain.

PvP oriented players hunt each other, but more frequently hunt those running PvE sites. As the quantity and quality of PvE sites diminish, so do the numbers of those running them, and so do the numbers of PvP oriented players to feed on them.

You don't see this kind of thing in Hisec, for obvious reasons. And you really don't see it in Null as much as you'd think. Lowsec has long claimed PvP starvation. It seems to be happening in W-space as well.

If there is a strong correlation between increasing incursion or nullsec NPC kills and a simultaneous decline in W-space NPC kills, that might indicate that Corbexx's W-space income numbers need to be looked at far more seriously than I expect they'll look at them. Maybe, just maybe, it might mean they don't give incursions yet another buff, if the data indicates they are a problem, and instead buff W-space.

Fozzie said income potential in (high-class) W-space is the highest in the game. But if numbers there are declining in favour of elsewhere, it's not just raw numbers that need to be looked at. The income NEEDS to be high to provide incentive to be here after offsetting any costs to replace losses. Even if you have high income, if you're losing more and having to replace enough such that either you lose in time or ISK, you will leave. Too many people doing this hurts the rest of us.

Many people have accused incursions of hurting W-space. Is it true? This data that I'm asking about can be a potential indicator to help confirm or deny such accusations. We probably won't see this data, but hopefully the CSM (ie: Corbexx) can take it, mix it with the data he is generating regarding W-space income, and MAYBE guide CCP's hands a little bit so they stop playing with the food chain quite so flippantly, if that is what's happening.

Food chain and WOT

I would like to point out that hyp launched at almost the exact same time ALOT of ppl started to go back to school as summer was ending. These "numbers" are most likely affected by this.

Because obviously everyone will leave Wspace straight to incursions

If people seriously think incursions are easy isk they will do what any normal person in eve will do and put an incursion alt in them. If people were that risk aversed that they safe closed all the time to rat then what exactly has wspace lost? People like that get snagged probably once or twice a year and have farmed 10's of billions of isk for them not to care when it does happen. So I wish them personally a fond farewell.

For all those saying "Hey let's not get too hasty on a few weeks of stats" isn't this EXACTLY what the new multiple expansion system was touted as being for? For seeing immediate stats effects and being able to reverse them on a dime if necessary if the short-term data showed it was a flop?

Seemed to me that was what every single guest dev at the AT was saying was singularly the best part of the new system.

I would like to point out that hyp launched at almost the exact same time ALOT of ppl started to go back to school as summer was ending. These "numbers" are most likely affected by this.

Where is Proc to politely tell this gentleman to post with his main.

I recall before we even left w-space, which was before Hyperion was even announced, that we would rage roll for HOURS finding nothing, or have chains that had 20+ systems in them with nothing. Some people act like every w-space system was occupied pre-Hyperion, which isn't true. Yes, Hyperion has likely made it worse, but much of that is just because of people who refuse to even give the changes a chance, and decided before anything bad even happened that they were done.

yes I can certainly ask that.

Actually not the case at all, we have been whining for a long time that nobody mines in WH space in the numbers they used to and they could have refuted us at any point on that and CCP Fozzie only used it as a reference point in the WH Townhall.

I think they are quite happy ignoring idiots.

Winthorp, you might consider joining ccp to gather all that data.