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Gariuys
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.31 09:28:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 31/07/2006 09:24:03
Originally by: zerb'liar
and TBH, I'm not a masochist.
I paid the price he asked (to be precise 127 millions) because I was flyin a ship that was fitted with more than that... that was good business for him and good decision for me.
In order to be relatively coold regarding this kind of events the key is "ISK".
If you have little and get ransomed/destroyed u get mad. If u have a lot and have "incidents" in your career, you just try to learn from those 'incidents'.
I don't thank lofty (I even will eventually try to get my money back in a way or another) but well. I'm pragmatic .. he outsmarted me / or I was too little informed about rules / too confident about my own power...
We are all masochists because we pay monthly fees and learn how to enjoy giving and receiving pain. Eventually, we will all learn pain is fun. Killers give pain to non-killers, non-killers give pain to killers through expensive T2 prices.
Remember, only the paranoid survives.
Embrace the pain... for only then will you ehm.... feel really ****ty cause it HURTS!!!! mommy it hurts.
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zerb'liar
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Posted - 2006.07.31 09:30:00 -
[32]
Yes ... that is how it goes... Pirates break ships / got shot / use ammo => it creates the economic animation we all need to sell anything on the market and maintain the prices (or raise them) => get our money back...
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2006.07.31 09:37:00 -
[33]
Q: When aggressed, does the 15 min timer start? Like it does if an NPC engages, even if you don't return fire. Which in return means that if the timer does not start, he starts shooting at you and you simply quit the gang - the aggressor gets concordokken?
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.07.31 09:41:00 -
[34]
Erm, no, that was not a war/aggro timer.
That was a gang operation timer, which is 30 seconds. You cant jump or dock for 30 seconds after completing any gang operation - that includes joining or leaving a gang, resigning leadership, etc etc.
The fact that you left the gang in-warp and tried to dock was what killed you. Also the fact that you didnt insta probably didnt help, as you may have been able to tank out the gang op period if you'd been on top of the station to dock afterwards.
Scrapheap Challenge Forums |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.31 09:44:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Erm, no, that was not a war/aggro timer.
That was a gang operation timer, which is 30 seconds. You cant jump or dock for 30 seconds after completing any gang operation - that includes joining or leaving a gang, resigning leadership, etc etc.
The fact that you left the gang in-warp and tried to dock was what killed you. Also the fact that you didnt insta probably didnt help, as you may have been able to tank out the gang op period if you'd been on top of the station to dock afterwards.
My own reaction would have been to leave the gang in warp too... I think lofty gets alot of kills this way. People think its safe to just leave the gang if there is trouble. Seems its not that easy.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
zerb'liar
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Posted - 2006.07.31 09:50:00 -
[36]
the timer starts something like 30 secs after joining the gang... and is active for 15 minutes. It shows the same "countdown agression" as when u kill a faction ship in a mission.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.31 09:51:00 -
[37]
KB
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.31 09:52:00 -
[38]
Almost nobody seems to know exacly how the flagging system works in all situations... 
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.31 09:53:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Almost nobody seems to know exacly how the flagging system works in all situations...
When in doubt, assume it is 15 minutes plus another 5 minutes for server/client latency.
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
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Mona Lou
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Posted - 2006.07.31 09:53:00 -
[40]
Lofty is doing that in Ours for quite a long time already. Poor noobs there, I think they wont get much help thanks to his "tactic". 
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zerb'liar
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Posted - 2006.07.31 09:55:00 -
[41]
and I can tell u that the key here is the ability of lofty to jump on your heels to the right location (would I have jumped to another location than original station I wouldn't have been glued).
The second thing is that the only way to survive lofty's agression is be flying a domi with a lot / lot / lot of cap and an equivalent setup in terms of NOSFERATU in order not to run out of cap and be able to tank forever.
I will buy myself a DOMI .. brutix class ships (even tech II) are outpowered in 1vs1 versus a BS fitted to drain power and if the said BS comes under 30 km range.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.31 09:57:00 -
[42]
Domi is a solopwnmobile in this patch. 
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
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zerb'liar
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Posted - 2006.07.31 09:58:00 -
[43]
Edited by: zerb''liar on 31/07/2006 09:59:24
.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.07.31 09:58:00 -
[44]
Originally by: zerb'liar
and I can tell u that the key here is the ability of lofty to jump on your heels to the right location (would I have jumped to another location than original station I wouldn't have been glued).
The second thing is that the only way to survive lofty's agression is be flying a domi with a lot / lot / lot of cap and an equivalent setup in terms of NOSFERATU in order not to run out of cap and be able to tank forever.
I will buy myself a DOMI .. brutix class ships (even tech II) are outpowered in 1vs1 versus a BS fitted to drain power and if the said BS comes under 30 km range.
Untrue. When he highlights you before you warp out, there's a vector pointing towards your warp destination.
--*=*=*--
Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment. |
zerb'liar
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Posted - 2006.07.31 09:59:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Domi is a solopwnmobile in this patch.
What do u mean by that ?
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.31 10:01:00 -
[46]
Originally by: zerb'liar
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Domi is a solopwnmobile in this patch.
What do u mean by that ?
One very sick and hard to kill ship. Alone, it can kill a gang of hostiles if lucky.
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.31 10:03:00 -
[47]
Stupid game mechanisms like nos and ecm are making Domi almost unbeatable.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Asnar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.31 10:05:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Almost nobody seems to know exacly how the flagging system works in all situations...
Yeah it's a spot complicated.
 And how exactly do you adapt to potentially getting killed by everybody you kill? -Nero Scuro
If I miss you, it will be because my tracking is a little off. - Grey Area |
Samirol
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2006.07.31 10:45:00 -
[49]
lets fix flagging by making everything 0.0. problem solved
but you know what i really hate?
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Captain Thunk
Explode. Now. Please.
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Posted - 2006.07.31 11:38:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Captain Thunk on 31/07/2006 11:38:56
I don't see how using an alt to setup a fake war can be considered a legitimate use of game mechanics. When used this way CONCORD end up protecting the aggressors not the victims.
Unfortunately we're seeing more and more of this 'no risk for maximum reward'* strategy, this isn't good for new players and it's not good for the evolution of the game. I agree that nowhere should be safe, but as indicated in this thread there are very few people who know the full ins and outs of can flagging and war rules.
*while the victims get the right to fight back, in each and every instance lofty or the instigator gets to choose his victim - if by chance he does lose thats just his misjudgement, unlike in low sec no-one can come to the victims aid without being concorded.
It's quite clear this is not what CCP intended when they introduced war rules and the situation or being trapped by a fake war is quite absurd.
CAPTAIN THUNK
If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...The ENP-Team. |
zerb'liar
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Posted - 2006.07.31 11:51:00 -
[51]
Overall and having some experience on different uses of game mechanism to "steal" from the innocent, the answers you generally get from CCP is the following : if, in the game, there is a way to prevent this usage (in this case the information that the guy you gang with is at war with someone - imbedded in the gang message warning), then CCP doesn't consider this as an abuse.
Only issue I see is that this information is somewhat "insufficiently advertised" as the message looks like a normal gang window message.
In order to protect the "noobs" and allow less "paranoia" there should be a first window saying like "the party you are about to join is at war with xxxx" do u want to proceed ? and then get the gang window.
Would that be considered as a valid enhancement request ? (it goes in the good way : i.e. helping new players integrate eve and developping inter-player collaboration).
Waiting for CCP feedback
I do agree upon the fact that I think this technique is "border line".
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Captain Thunk
Explode. Now. Please.
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Posted - 2006.07.31 12:02:00 -
[52]
I don't see why being in a gang with someone at war should make you vulnerable at all, to my mind this is a relic from an age long before my time and would be better removed entirely.
Ultimately I don't think it matters, I was trying to say earlier that more and more people are stopping actually playing the game and looking harder at how to exploit the rules to garner them risk free combat or ISK.
It's advisable not to have any contact at all with people you don't know, chances are they've got some lame plan in mind if they are convo'ing you or asking for help in local - which for a MMO game is the beginning of the end if left unchecked.
The fact Lofty is so vocal of his risk free rewards pretty much sums the situation up for me.
CAPTAIN THUNK
If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...The ENP-Team. |
Asnar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.31 12:15:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Captain Thunk
I don't see why being in a gang with someone at war should make you vulnerable at all, to my mind this is a relic from an age long before my time and would be better removed entirely.
Ultimately I don't think it matters, I was trying to say earlier that more and more people are stopping actually playing the game and looking harder at how to exploit the rules to garner them risk free combat or ISK.
It's advisable not to have any contact at all with people you don't know, chances are they've got some lame plan in mind if they are convo'ing you or asking for help in local - which for a MMO game is the beginning of the end if left unchecked.
The fact Lofty is so vocal of his risk free rewards pretty much sums the situation up for me.
CAPTAIN THUNK
It was made that way cause of gangs with mixed war/non war targets causing a lot of problems... it's much better this way.
And how exactly do you adapt to potentially getting killed by everybody you kill? -Nero Scuro
If I miss you, it will be because my tracking is a little off. - Grey Area |
zerb'liar
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Posted - 2006.07.31 12:17:00 -
[54]
regarding the kind of behavior one must have in order to avoid trouble : you are right BUT, I'm playing a MMO rather than a "network free" game in order to have some kinds of interactions whith others.
CCP should try to act in order to maintain this interaction.
Sometimes things should be done not to frustrate players due to the long learning curve (been playing for 2 years and i'm still learning - which is good).
Once again. What I regret is the fact that there is a risk that people don't help newcommers due to risks such as this story. This is bad for the game because the "lawfully" aligned dudes will suffer from this somewhat favorizing the development of the evil side ...
If CCP could give a look at my request ... and give a status .. that would be a little change for something valuable for all (I think)
What do you guys think (about the 2 steps gang phase) ?
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Asnar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.31 12:20:00 -
[55]
Why? How many legit newbies will have a ongoing war???? That's right... NONE don't help people with a active war, unless you know who the war is against, and there's no danger... OR accept the danger.
And how exactly do you adapt to potentially getting killed by everybody you kill? -Nero Scuro
If I miss you, it will be because my tracking is a little off. - Grey Area |
Captain Thunk
Explode. Now. Please.
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Posted - 2006.07.31 12:21:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Asnar
It was made that way cause of gangs with mixed war/non war targets causing a lot of problems... it's much better this way.
Odd how the clear label of the red star in overview isn't a good enough game mechanic resulting in these absurd situations
CAPTAIN THUNK
If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...The ENP-Team. |
nahtoh
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.31 12:28:00 -
[57]
Make it that the non waring party gets first shot in? Instead of the waring party?
Or would that break things even more?
=========
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Captain Thunk
Explode. Now. Please.
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Posted - 2006.07.31 12:30:00 -
[58]
My advice is that lofty and his ilk should get more alts in with T1 support cruisers as they do not aggress when transferring shields/armour/energy. He can then tank absolutely anything 1vs1 and probably most small fleets. People on WoW forums can then point and laugh at Eve for the absurd and stupid rules that we endure in our quest for maximum reward without ever taking any risk.
CAPTAIN THUNK
If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...The ENP-Team. |
zerb'liar
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Posted - 2006.07.31 12:31:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Asnar
Why? How many legit newbies will have a ongoing war???? That's right... NONE don't help people with a active war, unless you know who the war is against, and there's no danger... OR accept the danger.
What I say is that very few people (I personally didn't) know that the gang window does have an information about this war thing. Even fewer people would know that ganging with a guy at war would expose you to being considered as a valid target by the oppsoing party.
Would one be fully knowledgeable about risks you can be sure that no foolish decisions would be taken.
And this is said by long time players. Just imagine the level of knowledge of new players... What you say does reinforce my feeling that the information is just not clear enough. But If I'm the only one to think that, then I'm wrong. And if I'm wrong, I'm not legitimate to ask CCP a modification.
C'mon what do new players think, let's go for a poll :
1 / Did you know that entering a gang would make you a legitimate (i.e. no CONCORD sanctions) target for corps being at war with the other gang member ?
2 / Did you know that the gang window contains some information about parties being at war with your potential gang partner ?
Thanks for feedback
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Asnar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.31 12:33:00 -
[60]
REad the gang window, it has all the info in very clear and short english for all to read. IT leaves absolutely no doubts regarding the situation at hand.... you do have to read it though.
And how exactly do you adapt to potentially getting killed by everybody you kill? -Nero Scuro
If I miss you, it will be because my tracking is a little off. - Grey Area |
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