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zerb'liar	Posted - 2006.07.31 08:54:00 - [1] lofty29 has been bragging around on the fact he ransomed 150 Millions ISK in OURS yesterday. It happens that I'm one of the victims. The aim of this post is not to say how sad I'm but to understand how it could happen. Here is the story. I was in Ours yesterday. Leaving station. A noob convoed me and asked for help in L2 mission. TBH I was surprised by how familiar a 5 days old player was with game concepts like creating gangs and such. yet, I didn't listen to my 6th sense and told to myself that noobs should be helped. I entered his gang and warped to him on mission site. This being said I warped to the guy with a 40 km distance in order to be away from warp scramble range "just in case". The noob and Lofty29 were here. Lofty targeted me / I targeted him but didnt shoot. At the same time I warped back to ours 3 (what lost me was the fact that I didn't use my insta).. i warped to 15km of station. While warping I quit the gang. That's where I don't understand what happened ... I briefly saw a message saying "you are not done with the gang activities or such ... " don't remember .. was very brief. Lofty arrived on my heels and locked me (he had dominix & I had eos); used large nos on me + drones + webber + ECM. My cap was rapidly eaten (I think he has several NOS or NEUTRALIZER on highs, it was fast) and I could do nothing .... but try to convo the dude and ask for mercy... Which he accepted.... What I don't understand is the following : how come a guy which was not originally in the GANG i formed with the fake noob could target me and fire at me without being destroyed by CONCORD ? I didn't fire @ him (just auto targetted back). Did he join the gang after I quit and used a game mechanism to be allowed to be agressive toward (a kind of timeout on the gang) ... pls help me understand
Avon Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 08:58:00 - [2] The guy you ganged with would have been at war with lofty29. That makes you a valid target. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Gariuys Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:00:00 - [3] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire What Avon said^^. OTOH, what were you flying that made you pay 150M? kitted EOS. says so in the post...
Gariuys Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:00:00 - [4] Cheap tactic, but valid.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:00:00 - [5] What Avon said^^. OTOH, what were you flying that made you pay 150M? ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:01:00 - [6] Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Jenny Spitfire What Avon said^^. OTOH, what were you flying that made you pay 150M? kitted EOS. says so in the post... Ta. Read it as NOS. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Tachy	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:02:00 - [7] Forming a gang takes about 30 seconds. Do not warp to your gangmate right upon entering the group. Dock and wait for that half minute to run out. The client doesn't check if all work is done but just got that 30 seconds timer running instead. The same philosophy is implemented in a lot of situations in EVE. Ship changes, S&I, coming contract system ... They all got the 'Not finished when the job's done because the server would have to track the stuff on its own - finish the **** by yourself or qwait until a timer has run its course'. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:02:00 - [8] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 31/07/2006 09:02:02 By joining the gang, you became a valid target because Lofty is at war with his alt. When joining the gang, it was seen by the game as you were helping the alt vs Lofty, so you became a valid target. I think thats how it works. Lofty talked about it before, but I might not have understood it correctly. Im not sure why you couldnt leave the gang though (sounds like you couldnt from that message). Edit: Woa.. so many replies before me. Im getting old and slow. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:03:00 - [9] Originally by: Jim McGregor I think thats how it works. Lofty talked about it before, but I might not have understood it correctly. Im not sure why you couldnt leave the gang though (sounds like you couldnt from that message). He left the gang but he still had war/aggro timer active. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:04:00 - [10] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire He left the gang but he still had war/aggro timer active. Thanks Jenny. How long is the timer in that situation? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Tachy	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:05:00 - [11] Oh, and the fake noob ganged his alt he's at war with after you joined the gang. That happens for a long time ... like 3 years - since CONCORD was invented. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
CodeR70	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:05:00 - [12] He uses this trick for months now. What happens is that you joined a gang (corp) that is in war with the gang (corp) of lofty. This is also stated in the warning message when you accept the gang invitation. You are not the first, and probably not the last who falls for this trick. Afterwards he is braging a lot how uber he is.
Gariuys Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:05:00 - [13] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 31/07/2006 09:02:02 By joining the gang, you became a valid target because Lofty is at war with his alt. When joining the gang, it was seen by the game as you were helping the alt vs Lofty, so you became a valid target. I think thats how it works. Lofty talked about it before, but I might not have understood it correctly. Im not sure why you couldnt leave the gang though (sounds like you couldnt from that message). Edit: Woa.. so many replies before me. Im getting old and slow. Lol but 4 *****s in a row, so no harm done. ;-)
zerb'liar	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:06:00 - [14] Edited by: zerb''liar on 31/07/2006 09:07:08 IS there a way to know who is at war with who ? In this case that means that the fake noob was in fact controlled by lofty and declared a fake war in order to use this game mechanism... How much is a war worth ?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:07:00 - [15] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 31/07/2006 09:07:59 Well, its a lame tactic, but after running around lowsec for 6 hours without finding a target, im beginning to understand why people do stuff like this. Same thing with gate sniping/camping. It might be lame, but hey, dont blame pirates. Blame the game. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:08:00 - [16] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Jenny Spitfire He left the gang but he still had war/aggro timer active. Thanks Jenny. How long is the timer in that situation? AFAIK, 15 mins. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Gariuys Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:09:00 - [17] Originally by: zerb'liar Edited by: zerb''liar on 31/07/2006 09:07:08 IS there a way to know who is at war with who ? In this case that means that the fake noob was in fact controlled by lofty and declared a fake war in order to use this game mechanism... How much is a war worth ? A war is 1mil a week or so, cheap. and you get a warning message when joining the gang...
zerb'liar	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:09:00 - [18] So basically the fact that the guy you join is at war with someone appears in the gang warning message before accepting to enter the gang ?
zerb'liar	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:10:00 - [19] and I blame no one but meself on that situation : if there is a way to know, that is not an exploit... that is the game...
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:10:00 - [20] Originally by: zerb'liar So basically the fact that the guy you join is at war with someone appears in the gang warning message before accepting to enter the gang ? Well, message says that someone COULD be at war with the guy I think. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:10:00 - [21] Originally by: zerb'liar Edited by: zerb''liar on 31/07/2006 09:07:08 IS there a way to know who is at war with who ? In this case that means that the fake noob was in fact controlled by lofty and declared a fake war in order to use this game mechanism... How much is a war worth ? Yes. Read gang dialog before accepting it. Yes again. Alts are the bane of EvE. CCP should have made the client single instance on a machine. 0.0 and empire warefare are lame because of alts. Empire is the worst though because you can abuse Concord. War is cheap. A few millions. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Gariuys Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:12:00 - [22] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: zerb'liar So basically the fact that the guy you join is at war with someone appears in the gang warning message before accepting to enter the gang ? Well, message says that someone COULD be at war with the guy I think. It warns for active wars IIRC. And ganging with a valid wartarget is taking a risk no matter if lofty is waiting for you or not.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:12:00 - [23] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 31/07/2006 09:12:17 Originally by: zerb'liar and I blame no one but meself on that situation : if there is a way to know, that is not an exploit... that is the game... EvE is a masochistic place for sadistic players with malevolent desires. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
zerb'liar	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:12:00 - [24] Thanks to all of you for that info... Fly safe...
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:13:00 - [25] Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 31/07/2006 09:12:17 Originally by: zerb'liar and I blame no one but meself on that situation : if there is a way to know, that is not an exploit... that is the game... EvE is a masochistic place for sadistic players with malevolent desires. So that's why you fit right in? ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Gariuys Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:13:00 - [26] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 31/07/2006 09:12:17 Originally by: zerb'liar and I blame no one but meself on that situation : if there is a way to know, that is not an exploit... that is the game... EvE is a masochistic place for sadistic players with malevolent desires. So that's why you fit right in?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:13:00 - [27] Originally by: zerb'liar and I blame no one but meself on that situation : if there is a way to know, that is not an exploit... that is the game... Yep, its the game and you are right. But I think it shows a bigger problem with piracy in itself. Its so hard to find people, and its so easy to avoid pirates. Thats why people do stuff like this. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:14:00 - [28] Originally by: Gariuys It warns for active wars IIRC. And ganging with a valid wartarget is taking a risk no matter if lofty is waiting for you or not. Aye, thanks for clarification. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
zerb'liar	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:19:00 - [29] and TBH, I'm not a masochist. I paid the price he asked (to be precise 127 millions) because I was flyin a ship that was fitted with more than that... that was good business for him and good decision for me. In order to be relatively coold regarding this kind of events the key is "ISK". If you have little and get ransomed/destroyed u get mad. If u have a lot and have "incidents" in your career, you just try to learn from those 'incidents'. I don't thank lofty (I even will eventually try to get my money back in a way or another) but well. I'm pragmatic .. he outsmarted me / or I was too little informed about rules / too confident about my own power...
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:22:00 - [30] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 31/07/2006 09:24:03 Originally by: zerb'liar and TBH, I'm not a masochist. I paid the price he asked (to be precise 127 millions) because I was flyin a ship that was fitted with more than that... that was good business for him and good decision for me. In order to be relatively coold regarding this kind of events the key is "ISK". If you have little and get ransomed/destroyed u get mad. If u have a lot and have "incidents" in your career, you just try to learn from those 'incidents'. I don't thank lofty (I even will eventually try to get my money back in a way or another) but well. I'm pragmatic .. he outsmarted me / or I was too little informed about rules / too confident about my own power... We are all masochists because we pay monthly fees and learn how to enjoy giving and receiving pain. Eventually, we will all learn pain is fun. Killers give pain to non-killers, non-killers give pain to killers through expensive T2 prices. Remember, only the paranoid survives. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!

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