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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
503
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 01:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
What's it gonna take? With all things being as they are, Hyperion and all... what will make you happy? What do you wanna see happen(ing) that you won't ***** about?
It's only obvious, and sad, that CCP broke wspace for the majority of its residents, so suppose they're not really giving a **** about trying to revert it... What can the player base do to reignite this bicth? Snipped signature for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne |
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
490
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 01:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Siege long standing wh corps out!
/troll
People could stop being bitches and take a risk now and then... example We knew were most likely gonna lose that carrier but YOLO. Plus it was hella fun fight Blue-Fire Best Fire |
Lakshata Chawla
Blue-Fire
98
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 01:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Well I mean moving out before the changes are in effect because you're outraged isn't/wasn't the right solution. I think people just need to stop being bitches, the changes aren't bad at all. |
J3rz11
Hard Knocks Inc.
114
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 01:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aquila Sagitta wrote:Siege long standing wh corps out! /troll People could stop being bitches and take a risk now and then... exampleWe knew were most likely gonna lose that carrier but YOLO. Plus it was hella fun fight
to busy playing Archeage atm |
Dyscordia
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
29
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 02:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
I Googled it and it brought me back to this thread. Is this thread just a metaphor for a circular argument? |
Juris Macto
B0rthole
1
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 03:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
At first, my corp didn't like the changes just for the way CCP seemed to be going about it. Now that we have seen it action... meh. It didn't really affect us much, if at all. |
Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
689
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 03:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
EIther you don't know what gentrification means, or OP is worded poorly, or both because HiddenFremen.
Gentrification in the WH sense is already happening, and was happening before Hyperion even happened. If we look at the definition of gentrification:
Merriam Webster wrote: influx of middle-class or affluent people into deteriorating areas that often displaces poorer residents
Except since this is a video game, replace "affluent people" with large entities and "poorer residents" with "smaller entities". The "deteriorating areas" part doesn't really apply here, as that would most likely refer to low class WHs, which we know not many people wish to live in. The definition works with that swap, but also with rich and poor, as the larger power blocks are often a fair bit richer than their smaller counterparts. The gentrification of WH space would effectively mean corps continuously solidifying into larger entities so that they can be large enough to protect themselves against the threat of eviction. The result of this, though, is far more empty holes as small corps move to merge with larger ones. You would most likely end up with stalemates when two large entities fight, and the main deciding factor being the friends that either side brings.
What you'd actually want is the reverse gentrification of WH space, this being larger corps splitting into smaller entities and populating many of the empty holes that exist. However, since people want to win fights and not just whelp T3 fleets, they naturally conglomerate into the large blob entities that we currently have.
Unless of course you mean the repopulation of WH space... If you want that you should probably keep what you have there already instead of getting rid of it vOv
/one serious post of the month now back to being a shitter If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy |
Bree Okanata
Perkone Caldari State
112
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 03:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
J3rz11 wrote:Aquila Sagitta wrote:Siege long standing wh corps out! too busy playing Archeage atm
Can't be true. The 12 hour queues to get into the game are atrocious. |
Ageudum
Nanashi no Geemu FOX.HOUND
8
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 03:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Andrew Jester wrote:EIther you don't know what gentrification means, or OP is worded poorly, or both because HiddenFremen. Gentrification in the WH sense is already happening, and was happening before Hyperion even happened. If we look at the definition of gentrification: Merriam Webster wrote: influx of middle-class or affluent people into deteriorating areas that often displaces poorer residents
Except since this is a video game, replace "affluent people" with large entities and "poorer residents" with "smaller entities". The "deteriorating areas" part doesn't really apply here, as that would most likely refer to low class WHs, which we know not many people wish to live in. The definition works with that swap, but also with rich and poor, as the larger power blocks are often a fair bit richer than their smaller counterparts. The gentrification of WH space would effectively mean corps continuously solidifying into larger entities so that they can be large enough to protect themselves against the threat of eviction. The result of this, though, is far more empty holes as small corps move to merge with larger ones. You would most likely end up with stalemates when two large entities fight, and the main deciding factor being the friends that either side brings. What you'd actually want is the reverse gentrification of WH space, this being larger corps splitting into smaller entities and populating many of the empty holes that exist. However, since people want to win fights and not just whelp T3 fleets, they naturally conglomerate into the large blob entities that we currently have. Unless of course you mean the repopulation of WH space... If you want that you should probably keep what you have there already instead of getting rid of it vOv /one serious post of the month now back to being a shitter
This is the only intelligent post Jester will make in this subforum until the new year.
<3 |
Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
690
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 03:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bree Okanata wrote:J3rz11 wrote:Aquila Sagitta wrote:Siege long standing wh corps out! too busy playing Archeage atm Can't be true. The 12 hour queues to get into the game are atrocious.
Be not a poor and it's not a problem If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy |
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Henrayyyyy Andven
Origin. Black Legion.
73
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 03:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Confirming Fremen wants the equivalent of N3 and CFC in WH Space, I heard it from Jester |
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
492
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 04:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
If you're trying to make corps smaller and more numerous in wspace you need to fix the Apex fleet problem. T3's are the best by far and the only reliable counter to them is to bring more T3's. If there was more of a rock/paper/scissors style fleet engagements would be more interesting. It wouldn't be an arms race to get more t3's in fleet. Until T3s are rebalanced/nerfed nothings gonna change.
CCP needs to make it possible for a small group to take on a large group in wh's. Then you'll get smaller groups populating wspace. Blue-Fire Best Fire |
Henrayyyyy Andven
Origin. Black Legion.
74
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 04:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
The solution is to simply remove all other wormholes and have frigate only wormholes. |
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Disavowed.
151
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 05:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
Can't fix apex fleet, if you adjust it, you will just create an other new apex fleet.(nerf t3's and we will get a command ship apex fleet,... ) We just need to get more people in w-space. |
Hatshepsut IV
Cascading Failure Un.Bound
265
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 05:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Let's have all wormholes delete/randomize all overview settings every jump. I'm sure that will get things stirred up. You too can start failing today! Reddit-áad | Cascading Failure Public Channel | Aspiring Failure
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Andiedeath
Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance
276
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 06:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
lol the changes havent really changed our day to day life. Rolling wormholes is easy, running sites is easy... The population and activity has been down but we are starting to see people come back and explosions happening again.... As per previous posts I think once people actually try out the changes they will find that if anything wormhole space is better.
The chains are also MUCH MUCH longer! and lol we are finding wormhole chains intersecing much more often... No need to role WHs unless they are EOL or you are extremely bored!
The new effects will also be a good change. Director Swift Angels Alliance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3247397#post3247397 INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public |
Icarus Able
Revenant Tactical
482
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 08:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hatshepsut IV wrote:Let's have all wormholes delete/randomize all overview settings every jump. I'm sure that will get things stirred up.
That would possibly be the most hilarious/frustrating april fools joke ever. |
Winthorp
2727
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 08:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
Honestly Hidden i am not trolling you when i say this.
What makes you think WH space wasn't broken before Hyperion in all honesty Wh space really needed a major shake up to how people interact with each other.
While i fully supported Hyperion changes as i have said before i would rather they listened to our years of discussions on Wh mechanics and ideas before instituting changes with no consultation with us, they could have done so much more with Hyperion and done further changes after Hyperion but i am not holding my breath as i imagine the next few patches after Oceanus to revolve around nullsec. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
701
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 08:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Gentrification is about as much a thing as a SSC guy engaging without backup... "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
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Axloth Okiah
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
500
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 09:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
that hurts dude, we go way back... :( W-Space Realtor |
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Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
503
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 09:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
Title changed because it mattered more than my OP... I'm trying to facilitate the spreading of ideas so that people spend less time complaining and more time doing.
I'm not focusing on anything in particular. This is not a Hyperion post. Reread OP.
WTB ISD moderation. Snipped signature for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne |
Kira Hhallas
Very Drunken Eve Flying Instructors Brotherhood Of Silent Space
400
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 09:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
So if CCP dont RollBack with the chnages they made, they should male it more worth to go into W-Space. It is only a game of how much ISK you ern in W-space. (Like everywere in EVE).
Thats why Player move out of the W-Space. Becasue the Risk is to high for what they get out of the W-Space. I Think the People will move Bach into the Holes if more Sleeper Sites Will Spawn. Or more Belts will spawn. Or they bring more stuff in W-Space like. - T2 Materials Belts for Harvesting them , like the normal Belts. - ICE Belts..... (Why not ?) - Sansha Sites ? (Because the Sansha start there Incrusion out of the W-Space ) - Different Sleeper Loot for every WH-Class. So every Wormhole has there Sleeper Loot, and you need Products from all WH Classes for the Production of T3 Ships.
Okay... many of These ideas are from other Player and Corps. As i said , if they encrease the Income in W-Space Player will move back.
Sorry for my bad english.
Greatings from Austria
Kira Hhallas - Austrian EvE Community - ingame =+ûsterreich= -
Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare |
Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
503
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 09:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
What can players do to make it better, if anything at all? This isn't a thread for CCP. Snipped signature for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne |
Agrippa Arkaral
Vertical Rebirth
13
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 09:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
Xtrah > *dont evict PVP entities*
Scrapping this would be better since it now is basically farm 24/7 and if your sites are out you look for pvp, makes for a stale and boring environment.
Gotta go afk now, sry. |
Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
503
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 10:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Agrippa Arkaral wrote:Xtrah > *dont evict PVP entities* Define PvP entities. Snipped signature for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne |
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
109
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 10:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
Go into corp contacts. Delete all Blues. Congrats you have X more targets. |
Carlos Agathon
Grumpy Bastards No Response
19
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 10:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
BayneNothos wrote:Go into corp contacts. Delete all Blues. Congrats you have X more targets.
Because most wh enteties even have blues in the first place. As far as I knew, this wasn't nullsec (yet).
And how about we quit complaining and try to adapt to a changing environment. Wormholes should be the kind of community that gets **** on again and again and says "Well thank you CCP, may I have seconds?".
Will be interesting to see how much activity increases once summer is over.
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Darren Fox
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
54
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 10:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
(Everything expressed is my personal opinion)
I think we need to look at the game as a whole, not just w-space in isolation.
Fewer players log into the game now compared to the peak period with Retribution. This also affects w-space. At the same time, 0.0 is stagnant and offers vast amounts of "safe" areas to farm in. Even though the potential isk/hour is higher in w-space, 0.0 is considered more convient and has less constraints on skillpoints required, group size etc. Lowsec has also seen some love recently.
Hyperion brought some changes, most of them good, but none of them offered significant incentives for new groups to venture into W-space. There was no "fountain of youth" to lure the colonists to undock.
The Corp and POS mechanics is a major barrier. Sure, it ensures that trust is extremely important for wormholers, creating tight bonds and friendships that last a long time. It also requires the player to make a greater leap than going from highsec -> Low/0.0. "How many do I have to trust?...."
W-space can easily sustain 2x or even 3x the current inhabitants before living/farming space becomes an issue. Everyone that wants to, and can group up, has access to the best sites/anoms/"plex" in the game. Sure, most of the desireable effect/static combinations are occupied, but "we have grown out of our current system, and need to fight our way up" isn't really happening a lot.
Higher numbers would create tension and conflict in itself. I don't see that happening unless wormholers organized a major effort to get pve+pvp corps to move in so that we eventually could fight them. Even doing that would most likely not have a noticable impact.
Bottom line - suggestions: -Wait for a replacement for the current POS', help give feedback to ensure it is less player-hostile than it currently is -Ask/support efforts for actual new content in w-space, i.e. sites & loot you actually want to scout and fight for. The ghost sites offer too little of a total reward. Imagine instead a few sleeper home systems, only connectable by roaming wormholes. Moonless, so you stay in your ship or get out while you can. -Wait for Corp/alliance overhaul, so roles/security are improved -Ask that new K-space (New new Eden) is separate from existing K-space, only accessible through wormholes. Build stargates between the New new Eden systems. |
Jay Joringer
United System's Commonwealth
396
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 10:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
I donGÇÖt think there had been any doubt to the simplest way of improving or environment: Get more people in more systems. While there are things we can do as a community to this end, those things are very limited and have very little personal incentive. At the high end, we know the rewards are enough, but also understand that the environment can be brutally punishing.
HereGÇÖs where there is a big contrast. Lower classes do not provide income enough to offset these risks. Looking at it from a purely financially rewarding point of view (rather than how rewarding the gameplay is), it makes more sense to stay in highsec and run incursions or even level 4GÇÖs. Fledgling WH groups with ambitions to expand also have the problem of thefts and awoxing, which proportionally, hurts them more than a C5/C6 group who can shrug off a multi-billion ISK loss in short order. So, in short there needs to be better incentives to be in C1-C4 space so that groups can expand, while they are able to safeguard their assets.
As for high-end groups, we seem to see a cyclical fracturing and reforming of large entities. ItGÇÖs been alluded to somewhere else that itGÇÖs human nature to flock together like this, but I have always been of the opinion that in this environment, not only is it unbalanced and unsustainable, but self-defeating. People donGÇÖt like getting blobbed, so they band together with another group to form their own blob then complain when no one wants to fight them GÇô because people donGÇÖt like getting blobbed. ThereGÇÖs no easy solution here, but like the rest of eve, a small number of people in the leadership of every entity has an influence on these attitudes. This is an un-quantified observation (and quite possibly a very oblique reference), but I would estimate that there are more wormhole pilots both inside and outside of WH space than there are good leaders within the environment GÇô what I mean by this is that people have let the environment become more stagnant than it needs to be by always taking the safe option. ThereGÇÖs no magic pill for this, but the environment needs more people to take a risk and create new, smaller groups and commit to make them work. -All that made sense in my head, anyway.
The point of the rant? -Lower classes need better incentives. Some people have said rebalancing blue loot, but I maintain that a new T3 line will re-inflate nano-ribbon prices. Worried about PvP balance? Make them T3 industrials. -Lower classes need better POS security. -Higher end population tends to be too clustered
Always bet on stupid
http://smug-bastard.blogspot.co.uk
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1872
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 10:57:00 -
[30] - Quote
Hidden Fremen wrote:What's it gonna take to please you? With all things being as they are, Hyperion and all... what will make you happy? What do you wanna see happen(ing) that you won't ***** about?
It's only obvious, and sad, that CCP broke wspace for the majority of its residents, so suppose they're not really giving a **** about trying to revert it... What can the player base do to reignite the love for wspace?
I'm moving to a C2. If CCP aren't going to add new content to make wormholes interesting again, it makes more sense to live in a wormhole that has easier access to k-space, as that's where CCP's focus is.
Hidden Fremen wrote:What can players do to make it better, if anything at all? This isn't a thread for CCP. Next to nothing, it's pretty much all on CCP. One group can't bring about change with happy thoughts and telling everyone to play the way they say... Unless you want a big CFC style coalition to dominate wormhole space. +1 |
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Xtrah
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
186
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 11:54:00 -
[31] - Quote
Agrippa Arkaral wrote:Xtrah > *dont evict PVP entities*
Scrapping this would be better since it now is basically farm 24/7 and if your sites are out you look for pvp, makes for a stale and boring environment.
Gotta go afk now, sry.
Well, that's some way to quote out of context. I said this in Disavowed public channel back in May this year, in a discussion with Krath Argus which I assume is your main or another alt. You were pissed off on how some entities policed W-space and stopped evictions from happening. The discussion was fairly good until you meant a single lone armor Moros without support could stand a chance against a subcap fleet. @Xtrah_ - http://www.youtube.com/NoHolesBarredEVE
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Borsek
Incertae Sedis
250
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 12:06:00 -
[32] - Quote
Honestly? Without CCP?
Pull your corp apart, designate 5 leaders, people who are the best, and have the most patience. Make them form 5 corps, and divvy up the members between those corps. Each will then have a fleet size of 5 to 10. Now comes the hard part - make every corp recruit about 20 newbros, and train them up. Take people with +- 10M SP. Teach them how to make ISK, teach them how to pvp effectively. After about a year, about 10 newbros from each corp will make good pilots, and the rest will either quit or still be bad.
Congratulations, you have created 4more decent entities, thereby creating content. This post is not aimed parricularly at fremen, but I'm sure lazerhawks are large and experienced enough to be able to do something like that.
But yeah, since hyperion, holes are rolled by battleship. |
Angela Martin
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 12:53:00 -
[33] - Quote
Darren Fox wrote:
The Corp and POS mechanics is a major barrier. Sure, it ensures that trust is extremely important for wormholers, creating tight bonds and friendships that last a long time. It also requires the player to make a greater leap than going from highsec -> Low/0.0. "How many do I have to trust?...."
As someone that was in a small lower class WH until just recently, this was by far our biggest barrier. Corp settings and POS's are a nightmare. This stopped us from ever feeling like we could recruit.
The other factor, I feel, is a lack of interesting solo content. I think there is enough isk in the lower class WHs, but if you log on and no one else logs for 30 minutes, you go play something else. Due to the isk flowing in WHs, solo PvP is very rarely a real option. In a small corp of 3, 4, 5 people, these combined issues can make growth very difficult.
In the end, half our corp left, the other half joined a larger entity. Less people in lower class WHs, higher class WHs get more bloat and fleets get bigger as a net.
In regards to the calls for more isk, I don't know if that is the answer. Nullsec is the perfect example of this. Having folks that POS up and log when they see a Buzzard on scan is not what we need.
Right now, the only reason for PvP is PvP. There is no real conflict drivers, no REASON to PvP other than liking PvP. That's fine for some, but not for all. While Faction Warfare has it's issues, the activity and PvP in those areas exploded and continues to be a hive of activity for PvP. I'm not suggesting we need FW buttons, but a reason to fight other than epeen will bring more appropriate players than increased rewards.
I don't know how to makes these things happen, but I feel these are the issues. That, and the ten T3s jumping Drakes in C2s.
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Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
694
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 13:18:00 -
[34] - Quote
Hidden Fremen wrote:Title changed because it mattered more than my OP
Don't use big words to try and seem smart if you don't know what they mean.
Hidden Fremen wrote:What can players do to make it better, if anything at all? This isn't a thread for CCP.
Like Borschty said, split players up. Break down the massive corps into smaller entities so that people will be more likely to fight. Right now, if a small corp rolls into HK or LZHWK, it'll be an instant close. If either of those groups was a more manageable size, then there's a higher chance they'd fight. If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy |
CivilWars
Rolled Out Triumvirate.
192
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 13:44:00 -
[35] - Quote
At the end of the day it is all about content. If I enjoy PVP why would I choose to scan a 20 hole chain that is empty when I can live 3-5 gates, or one bridge, from people to shoot? Yes, there are some answers to that which make w-space "better" than null/low(no TiDi, supers, blobs are a few), but for the most part, for me at least, it just got to the point that it wasn't worth it. In the final days of my time in both SKY and RLLO we would scan long chains or rage roll and end up in one of three most common scenarios; empty, occupied with people to scared to actually fight us, or maybe some tasty ganks. Eventually that gets old. I am sure many of the larger groups are facing the same problems, and that is why HK spends so much time in null now because there are very few entities in w-space willing/able to fight them.
What can WE do? I know the common answer is to break up the 200+ pilot corps, but I think more important than that is we need more corps with content creators/FCs in them in w-space. More content would bring more residents, and the pendulum would begin to swing back the other way. We Re-Rolled. Stop by public channel Rolled Out to join the fun.
Hidden Fremen liked your forum post:... |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1873
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 13:50:00 -
[36] - Quote
^ You sure love "content" but what do you mean by "content"? +1 |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
819
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 14:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
Main change (or enhancement) I want to see is keeping it so that smaller entities can manipulate the terrain to survive against larger ones in day to day activities.
Another change I've been mulling over would be to add some frig only systems (without anchorable moons) and move some of the frig connections to and from those - could be interesting for both PVP and PVE aspects with less of an impact on the main area of w-space. |
Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
877
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 14:25:00 -
[38] - Quote
Hidden Fremen wrote:Title changed because it mattered more than my OP... Title changed because gentrification doesn't mean what you thought it meant Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
Axloth Okiah
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
500
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 14:25:00 -
[39] - Quote
Its been said already: better POS security and roles management would spur growth in lower classes. Thats been known for ages now. Asking big groups to voluntarily dissolve is incredibly naive and unattainable, never gonna happen. We have better chance harassing CCP to fix things or at least give us PSMAs...
btw alliance BMs might help things a little bit too - each tower different corp... but they might also allow the current top end to grow too W-Space Realtor |
MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
53
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 14:31:00 -
[40] - Quote
So, firstly it would be nice if CCP would make WH pvp into more of a rock-paper-scissors sort of game as Eve is supposed to be. There should be a highly mobile platform to counter the T3 gangs. Right now the Ishtar is a fairly decent counter, but only if you can get them to jump into you.
This is why I support the idea that maybe the speed you are going when you hit "enter wormhole" should somehow determine your distance from the other side. This could perhaps allow an Ishtar gang to hit the WH at 1.7 km/s and then maybe spawn on the other side ~35km from the hole or something? That's about a 1:20 modifier. Of course at that ratio frigs could spawn at 100km+. Obviously there would need to be some sort of negative logarithmic curve to the distance so you didn't have extremely remote spawns.
More changes like this would be great, but they require CCP intervention. The current pvp meta is so stale. Lets hope the upcoming T3 rebalance works as intended.
As for what we can do as players, I say we need to just bring in more people. INSRT is trying to be a good citizen of WH space by accepting adorable newbros who will hopefully go out and shoot/get shot at by people. In the end what we really need is more people who really live in wormholes, not just farm their home sites. Even groups that farm down the chain are fine with me because at least then there's a reason for gank fleets to go out scanning and pewing.
Farmers > Gankers > Apex Pvp fleets.
This is why CCP should make WH static farming more enticing somehow. At the same time, I think that there should be more NPC's that point in these sites, so that the farmers can be violenced more often.
Since we now have frig holes, perhaps we could have frig-only sites in wormholes? This idea would be an anom similar to the burner missions that would limit the hull type and be reasonably lucrative to run. Perhaps they could be Anoikis-wide and occur in a similar fashion to the ghost sites (i.e. random) but be much more common?
Finally, we should come together as a community to create content. The "Danger Zone" roams with HK were alot of fun, and we all got to meet and hang out. Perhaps we could arrange more content along these lines for wormholers? Perhaps someone could schedule another thunderdome event for people to come to a certain WH and PVP?
Most important though is that we have our WH CSM reps sing for us. Corbexx has majestically sang a Tribute for us, now it's the new guy's turn. Hit me up in-game for Ts3 info. If you tell me what song ahead of time, I'll get you background music. |
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chris elliot
Yoyodyne corporation Shadow Cartel
401
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 14:42:00 -
[41] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Main change (or enhancement) I want to see is keeping it so that smaller entities can manipulate the terrain to survive against larger ones in day to day activities.
Another change I've been mulling over would be to add some frig only systems (without anchorable moons) and move some of the frig connections to and from those - could be interesting for both PVP and PVE aspects with less of an impact on the main area of w-space.
It exists already, it's called lowsec faction warfare, and it's terribly boring. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
819
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 14:53:00 -
[42] - Quote
chris elliot wrote: It exists already, it's called lowsec faction warfare, and it's terribly boring.
lol wondered if someone would reply with something like that, not sure if there would be enough distinction to make it worth doing but I'd be more tempted to role a couple of alts for a frig limited sub-set of w-space than to join up with FW though :S |
Bluetippedflyer
Space Jerks
95
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 15:17:00 -
[43] - Quote
as a former wh resident (moved out a year ago) whats changed thats made it worse? i remember getting into fights inside holes every now and then but most of out fights came from nullsec entities. Life was good no complaints. |
Sith1s Spectre
Rolled Out Triumvirate.
1235
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 15:45:00 -
[44] - Quote
I think you guys are forgetting one main important thing.
People.
I mean I could list at least a dozen great other groups/leaders/content creators who simply aren't around or have moved on.
Sure, there are up and coming groups within WH space who have filled a couple of the voids as of late but when you have so many people leaving the game (and or WH space) it still leave a big gap.
I think that it's happening not just within WH space, but Eve in general and unfortunately I don't really have a solution to that problem Rolled Out 2.0 is back. -áBut not in the way you're probably thinking-á
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Hatshepsut IV
Cascading Failure Un.Bound
266
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 15:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
W-space does not need more arbitrary limits governing what you can an can't do that have no relation to playstyle/mechanics of w-space at large.
Things of that nature are bad gameplay and teach people habits at best that are useless elsewhere and worst leave them horrendous targets that will cause them to die in a terrible fire and not come back.
What me need IMHO is a better way to draw in people slowly to give them a chance to daytrip/explore and decide they like it and then settle in a wormhole. I've said it often, w-space has a very small pool of regular people to draw from, we basically recycle a lot of the same folks from group to group until boredom siphons them off. Like it or not new blood is what will get things to a state where is not 20 empty systems before you find stuff.
You too can start failing today! Reddit-áad | Cascading Failure Public Channel | Aspiring Failure
|
Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
504
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 15:53:00 -
[46] - Quote
I had an idea what gentrification meant, then I Googled it and read the first half. Thread was born. Was drunk when posted. My corp can confirm. Could probably get confirms from others, too, as I was very chatty and posting pics of my ale and chalice. Snipped signature for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne |
Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
695
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 16:10:00 -
[47] - Quote
Sith1s Spectre wrote:I mean I could list at least a dozen great other groups/leaders/content creators
IM GOING TO BE SO OFFENDED IF IM NOT ON THAT LIST
Hidden Fremen wrote:I had an idea what gentrification meant, then I Googled it and read the first half. Thread was born. Was drunk when posted. My corp can confirm. Could probably get confirms from others, too, as I was very chatty and posting pics of my ale and chalice.
You get brownie points if it was a Belgian drank out of the proper glass.
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy |
Borsek
Incertae Sedis
253
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 16:26:00 -
[48] - Quote
Sith1s Spectre wrote:I think you guys are forgetting one main important thing.
People.
I mean I could list at least a dozen great other groups/leaders/content creators who simply aren't around or have moved on.
Sure, there are up and coming groups within WH space who have filled a couple of the voids as of late but when you have so many people leaving the game (and or WH space) it still leave a big gap.
I think that it's happening not just within WH space, but Eve in general and unfortunately I don't really have a solution to that problem
At first I wanted to call this bullshit, but numbers haven't been as low as now since 2008, and there were probably less alts back then.
http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
Also, solution for low population might be a sov reset to shake things up in null, that's why the focus is on null, atm. Inb4 eve goes f2p but you need to buy CCashPoints to pour directly into skills. 10000$? Instant 120M SP character! |
Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
504
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 18:12:00 -
[49] - Quote
Andrew Jester wrote:You get brownie points if it was a Belgian drank out of the proper glass. Back on topic! Snipped signature for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne |
chris elliot
Yoyodyne corporation Shadow Cartel
401
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 18:22:00 -
[50] - Quote
Rroff wrote:chris elliot wrote: It exists already, it's called lowsec faction warfare, and it's terribly boring.
lol wondered if someone would reply with something like that, not sure if there would be enough distinction to make it worth doing but I'd be more tempted to role a couple of alts for a frig limited sub-set of w-space than to join up with FW though :S
It's the same terrible cancer, the location isn't going to make it any better.
|
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Billy Hardcore
Jaded.
171
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 18:29:00 -
[51] - Quote
Aquila Sagitta wrote:If you're trying to make corps smaller and more numerous in wspace you need to fix the Apex fleet problem. T3's are the best by far and the only reliable counter to them is to bring more T3's. If there was more of a rock/paper/scissors style fleet engagements would be more interesting. It wouldn't be an arms race to get more t3's in fleet. Until T3s are rebalanced/nerfed nothings gonna change.
CCP needs to make it possible for a small group to take on a large group in wh's. Then you'll get smaller groups populating wspace.
T3 BATTLESHIPSSSSS #BillyFleet |
Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
697
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 19:06:00 -
[52] - Quote
Hidden Fremen wrote:Andrew Jester wrote:You get brownie points if it was a Belgian drank out of the proper glass. Back on topic!
Back off topic, how was it? I have a bottle of that sitting in my fridge. If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy |
CivilWars
Rolled Out Triumvirate.
193
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 19:38:00 -
[53] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:^ You sure love "content" but what do you mean by "content"? There is only one brand of content that means anything to me, and that is mutually consensual PVP. I know many people say we need to boost industry in w-space to recruit more bears to harvest, but to me that is just Rapier*, and we all know that is a bad thing, mkay. Content to me is our chains magically meet, we lock eyes, and both say(in our best Marvin Gaye voice), "Let's get it on." Brawl happens, and we both return home to a smoke satisfied and fulfilled no matter who "won".
Look how many people started playing EVE (again) after Asakai, B-R, etc. W-space needs "epic battles" like that to attract new blood to it. Epic battles can be something as simple as 10-15 T3s with cap support, or someone going balls deep. It doesn't have to be trillions of isk lost in a battle that lasted 3 days in game, but only 30 minutes in real time. Good fights lead to interest, interest leads to recruitment, recruitment leads to more people to pew with/against, which leads to more good fights, and thus the cycle repeats. People POS spinning and/or logging of at any sign of danger leads to people leaving w-space, and that cycle also continues.
*You are smart, you figure it out. We Re-Rolled. Stop by public channel Rolled Out to join the fun.
Hidden Fremen liked your forum post:... |
Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
504
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 20:22:00 -
[54] - Quote
Andrew Jester wrote:Hidden Fremen wrote:Andrew Jester wrote:You get brownie points if it was a Belgian drank out of the proper glass. Back on topic! Back off topic, how was it? I have a bottle of that sitting in my fridge. I drank two. It was delicious.
Snipped signature for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne |
Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
504
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 21:03:00 -
[55] - Quote
Flavor of this thread is: smaller corps.
Epic battles are epic because large corps can field epic fleets. And without an CCP implemented corp size cap, downsizing for ideals is not gonna happen. Yes, human nature, sure, but also because it's too much work monitoring/managing a limit on your numbers while managing activity, too. You turn off recruitment, you member base slowly begins to quiet, suddenly, you're inactive. Bump recruitment again for new blood.
The only thing that'd fix the swell is a coded corp number limit. We all used to enjoy stories of two giants duking it out. These days, our giants are too gentle.
I might be wrong because #hiddenfremen...
Another thing some wanted changed was the no-evictions thing. Again, not gonna happen. We want more people, but people still need to fear they'll lose their home one day. It's ******* wspace. You know, the place we all boast about being sooo dangerous? Snipped signature for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne |
Leoric Firesword
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Redux
84
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 21:17:00 -
[56] - Quote
I used to live the the WH the corp I'm in owned. I moved out. Why? lack of content. We're in a C2 (small corp) and 1 motivated pilot can keep the system completely clean of sigs to run (other than ore, that usually takes 2 pilots). The rest of the time you have to go to lowsec or nullsec to find any type of content and well, it just wasn't worth it for me.
This keeps the corp from being able to get more pilots out there because that same 1 or 2 motivated pilots can clean out the close LS systems or our neighboring WH and everyone else is left standing around with their thumbs up their butts.
Since we can't get more people out to the WH because of lack of content we can't move up to a higher WH with escalations or more group oriented PvE/PvP.
C1's need to be able to support 1-5 active pilots, C2's 6-12 active pilots and right now they just can't. A C1 isn't worth jumping into for anything other than PI and a C2 can only keep 1 pilot active. |
Pro TIps
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
45
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 21:33:00 -
[57] - Quote
CivilWars wrote:There is only one brand of content that means anything to me, and that is mutually consensual PVP. As a new guy here, I've read many of your posts and respect your opinion. However, why do you prefer to leave carebears (like myself) alone? I mean, I don't want my POSes bashed or anything (and spent a lot of money on things that are useless to me unless that happens) but I'd never be upset that someone killed me in W-space.
I think the economy and game-play in W-space would benefit if asteroid anoms turned back into sites that have to be scanned. It would give me something else to do there with less risk. Now that ore compression is better (you can haul a shitload of veldspar & scordite to w-space in a t2 hauler) it would be nice if I could construct more ships locally. I'd be more willing to lose them if I was building them in W-space with mostly-native mats instead of spending time to haul **** in.
CivilWars wrote:Look how many people started playing EVE (again) after Asakai, B-R, etc. W-space needs "epic battles" like that to attract new blood to it. Not to tread on the "discussion of forum moderation" too much, but there was a cool thread the other day from Lazerhawks that was entirely about a W-space siege and it got kicked to some other sub-forum.
Yet two weeks ago, CCP partnered with that eve-bet site to basically manufacture a rare super kill with hopes of generating some interest in both the event (clearly successul as 4000+ in system) and maybe in getting people to re-subscribe or whatever.
How does the CCP PR machine not communicate to ISD that a thread about sieging someone's hole is fun and interesting to read; and the kind of thing some players might aspire to participate in? They should want to elevate news like this, not bury it in a different sub-forum to cut off discussion.
So my point here is, they spent a bunch of dev effort basically trying to promote more W-space PVP, but there is a thread telling about a siege and instead of going, hey, here is players having fun (at least the Lazerhawks side) they fail to recognize the potential upside of that and actually bury it. |
Proclus Diadochu
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
1849
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 21:35:00 -
[58] - Quote
Hidden Fremen wrote:What can players do to make it better, if anything at all? This isn't a thread for CCP. Probably the worst and best thing we ever did was organize wormhole groups. It's twofold, as it proves the successful and determined effort and capability of the playerbase, but at the same time, there are channels, third-party services, diplomats, "blues", loose coalitions (more like groups that will work together at a whim), forums, help threads, and all the other nonsense that comes along with organizing a variety of random groups, which destroys the mystery of the frontier.
The friendships exist now, so saying "get rid of it all, close the channels, kill the mappers, and nuke standings from high orbit" will likely be ignored, even if players made an active effort to agree to a plan. That alone would require organization and "rules".
Hyperion didn't create the problems that have caused the increasing (relative) boredom (for some) in wormholes, and that boredom isn't across the board. Some groups still get fights/fun, and some don't. Many of the players who find wormholes dead/dying are the ones that don't have any "mystery" or fun left to have in the current iteration. For guys like Fremen, the fun is in the friends and enjoying the game with those friends, shooting targets when available and being a leader in a community. This is where I was for a long time, since wormholes lost the fun that drew me to them years ago, "the unknown".
The only fix is for newer players without the experience and knowledge to rise and enjoy the mysteries and fun, until they reach that sacred place where there is none left to experience, then their continuation and/or enjoyment in wormholes/Eve will depend on the friends they have and the fun that they can make from wherever they are when things become known.
tl;dr - The sandbox is only as fun as the people you play with, and that determines how long the fun lasts before it becomes boring.
**Irrelevant-á| Twitter: @autoritare | [email protected] My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/ | The Diogenes Club |
Pro TIps
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
45
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 21:36:00 -
[59] - Quote
Leoric Firesword wrote:I used to live the the WH the corp I'm in owned. I moved out. Why? lack of content. Man that's every low-class hole. My corp has a C4 (which we dont go to much since Hyperion) and we farmed our static. We don't do that lately as the risk increased a lot, but before frig holes and such, if we didn't have content in our system we'd roll our static a couple times and find a neighboring system full of goodies, and go get them. Sometimes we'd roll into a PVP gang by accident, oops, that's life; but it is all fun. |
Alundil
Isogen 5
666
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 21:59:00 -
[60] - Quote
Leoric Firesword wrote:I used to live the the WH the corp I'm in owned. I moved out. Why? lack of content. We're in a C2 (small corp) and 1 motivated pilot can keep the system completely clean of sigs to run (other than ore, that usually takes 2 pilots). The rest of the time you have to go to lowsec or nullsec to find any type of content and well, it just wasn't worth it for me.
This keeps the corp from being able to get more pilots out there because that same 1 or 2 motivated pilots can clean out the close LS systems or our neighboring WH and everyone else is left standing around with their thumbs up their butts.
Since we can't get more people out to the WH because of lack of content we can't move up to a higher WH with escalations or more group oriented PvE/PvP.
C1's need to be able to support 1-5 active pilots, C2's 6-12 active pilots and right now they just can't. A C1 isn't worth jumping into for anything other than PI and a C2 can only keep 1 pilot active. If you limit your definition of "content" to PVE sites and refuse (apparently) to look for that same kind of "content" in the wh connections adjacent to you then yes. It's entirely possible for a very small number of active pilots to deplete all of that "content" in the home system. You imply that this is a low class wh issue but the reality is that it is entirely possible for the same low number of pilots to deplete PVE sites in any class of wh system. If you're using a wh for nothing other than ISK generation via sleeper sites but fail to run those in your static and then roll/repeat you're missing the true income potential in wspace c4 and below. the ISK is literally in the static.
With that said, if you're trying to get new people to move to "any part of EVE" for the PVE content alone then you are really doing them a disservice as EVE's PVE is the absolute worst out of any MMO that I can think of...ever (potential exceptions are the new burner missions).
The "content" that most ppl here are looking for is of the "I shoot you, you shoot me and x number of explosions occur" variety. That is the missing part of wspace in EVE and has been on the decline for quite some time. Having had numerous conversations with Civilwars (and others) about this very thing we've agreed (basically) that there's not really anything that we, the players, can do as a group to effect a change. Human nature tends to look for groupings that are beneficial to the members of said groupings. That means that groups will tend to always gain more pilots rather than actively shed pilots (unless the leadership has a strict idea on active numbers caps and engagement profiles).
In essence; 1. If there are no penalties to large corp/alliance sizes then there will be very few groups that willingly choose to remain small. 2. If there are no compelling reasons to do battle with a neighbor (such that have an effect on their home/membership/income), there will be a low frequency of battle. 3. If there are no game reasons to move into wspace (engaging new CCP content, higher realized income potential, specialized equipment/items/etc) then the number of pilots willing to move in will remain low.
Some of these, CCP might be able to look into. Some of these are related to human nature and the general desire of status quo that many people desire as well as varying degrees of risk taking/aversion. In my mind, #s 2 and 3 are the most pertinent, but also the most difficult to address.
Wspace is still my favorite type of space. However, at this point I'm pretty certain that it's my favorite type due to nostalgia and not because there are more fun things/people to do/shoot.
Until some of those things change, this will likely be the status quo for wspace.
I'm right behind you |
|
CivilWars
Rolled Out Triumvirate.
194
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 22:23:00 -
[61] - Quote
Pro TIps wrote:CivilWars wrote:There is only one brand of content that means anything to me, and that is mutually consensual PVP. As a new guy here, I've read many of your posts and respect your opinion. However, why do you prefer to leave carebears (like myself) alone? I mean, I don't want my POSes bashed or anything (and spent a lot of money on things that are useless to me unless that happens) but I'd never be upset that someone killed me in W-space. I think the economy and game-play in W-space would benefit if asteroid anoms turned back into sites that have to be scanned. It would give me something else to do there with less risk. Now that ore compression is better (you can haul a shitload of veldspar & scordite to w-space in a t2 hauler) it would be nice if I could construct more ships locally. I'd be more willing to lose them if I was building them in W-space with mostly-native mats instead of spending time to haul **** in. CivilWars wrote:Look how many people started playing EVE (again) after Asakai, B-R, etc. W-space needs "epic battles" like that to attract new blood to it. Not to tread on the "discussion of forum moderation" too much, but there was a cool thread the other day from Lazerhawks that was entirely about a W-space siege and it got kicked to some other sub-forum. Yet two weeks ago, CCP partnered with that eve-bet site to basically manufacture a rare super kill with hopes of generating some interest in both the event (clearly successul as 4000+ in system) and maybe in getting people to re-subscribe or whatever. How does the CCP PR machine not communicate to ISD that a thread about sieging someone's hole is fun and interesting to read; and the kind of thing some players might aspire to participate in? They should want to elevate news like this, not bury it in a different sub-forum to cut off discussion. So my point here is, they spent a bunch of dev effort basically trying to promote more W-space PVP, but there is a thread telling about a siege and instead of going, hey, here is players having fun (at least the Lazerhawks side) they fail to recognize the potential upside of that and actually bury it. Don't get me wrong, my killboard is littered with mining barges, sleeper site running ships, hole rolling caps, and even the infamous PI Rorq. I will take any and all kills that present themselves. However, that being said, if the only PVP content in w-space is ganking PVE pilots with limited situation awareness that gets old pretty quick. My favorite moments in w-space were the fights we had with HK, LZHX, Ixtab, NoHo, Whale Girth, etc where both sides willfully put billions on the field, and both sides felt there was a chance for victory or defeat.
As for moving the topic I am not allowed to discuss moderation, so this portion or entire reply may be deleted, but I think it was a bad decision. We Re-Rolled. Stop by public channel Rolled Out to join the fun.
Hidden Fremen liked your forum post:... |
Pro TIps
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
46
|
Posted - 2014.09.20 00:09:00 -
[62] - Quote
CivilWars wrote:My favorite moments in w-space were the fights we had with HK, LZHX, Ixtab, NoHo, Whale Girth, etc where both sides willfully put billions on the field, and both sides felt there was a chance for victory or defeat. I believe you are giving examples of why I think W-space is a great (if unnoticed by CCP) alternative to nullsec because of three things:
- no cyno'ing in a cap/super fleet that can burn down anything in its path at 0 risk to itself
- significant effort required to even get reinforcements/allies/hired mercs to your system
- defending a system you invest in becomes relatively easier than attacking that system, through a combination of pilots and capitals
These are the kind of things CCP wishes they could fix about nullsec to promote more competition, yet they fail to understand it already exists in W-space. They just need to make it more attractive for people to spend time in W-space. The obvious way to do that is by buffing up ISK and maybe access to materials.
I know that you already know this, but if anyone who doesn't reads, if someone attacked my corp's hole and began bashing our POSes, we'd have several advantages. We would be able to defend with capitals we built there, while the attackers could not (low-class) or they'd likely have fewer of them (C5/C6.) Our ships already are optimized to take advantage of our system's environmental effect, but an attacker would need to spend time fitting ships, or else we have another edge. We have plenty of ships in our SMAs and towers to organize in, while an attacker may not have such things (unless they haul in a tower for their siege, in which case, we would attack it.)
Even if our numbers were smaller and our SP less, we have a few home-turf advantages. Can we expand that advantage to more and more solar systems? No, not really, because the logistic effort of fueling towers in more low-class systems is not worth it; and the "land" is not really worth it either. I would imagine the wormhole corps/alliances who have hundreds of active members do have more than one system, but they don't have effective control of half of nullsec, nor do they have the kind of income that comes with it.
Point being, I wish CCP would recognize some of the qualities of W-space as being good, and build on them. They have tried and I believe failed with Hyperion, as the negatives seem to outweigh the positives. That doesn't mean W-space can't be "fixed" or made more attractive to players. It just means their first attempt wasn't as successful as they hoped.
CivilWars wrote:As for moving the topic I am not allowed to discuss moderation, so this portion or entire reply may be deleted, but I think it was a bad decision. I guess it's fair to say that we agree CCP could have gained from promoting news of Lazerhawks' siege and they didn't realize it. That seems like a better way to frame the discussion. |
Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
505
|
Posted - 2014.09.20 01:43:00 -
[63] - Quote
https://plug.dj/lazerhawks Snipped signature for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne |
Proclus Diadochu
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
1851
|
Posted - 2014.09.20 04:04:00 -
[64] - Quote
Hidden Fremen wrote:https://plug.dj/lazerhawks +1 **Irrelevant-á| Twitter: @autoritare | [email protected] My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/ | The Diogenes Club |
Ilaister
Task Force Proteus Protean Concept
99
|
Posted - 2014.09.20 11:55:00 -
[65] - Quote
Feel like it's a mixture of a good deal of what OPs have already said. They key is more and smaller groups.
1: Content Creators - No WH group is brimming with scanners/scouts/FCs/logisticians. Each has a few, the rest remain relatively casual and live in w-space for the quality of the kills and the nature of the space. If these people wanted to split off and form their own groups they would already have done so (several have, most don't fancy that amount of ballbreaking graft every time they log in).
2: Garbage POSes - Thefts almost killed us several times over, from C3 home to C2/C4 home, from 5 members to 30. The only reason to pick up the pieces with the same group is meta (your friends, your vision, your desire to make a name for yourselves or say fuckyou to the thieves).
3: Self-Imposed Limits - What does cause a corp/alliance to seek to grow past 200/300/400 members? I don't buy the argument that they must, lest they fear 'the blob'. Groups this size are few and far between. IMHO it's not even mainly risk aversion (who would steal from/attempt to burn HK?) instead I'd refer to #1. A corp missing a few key members quickly becomes part of someone else's corp so the casuals can stay casual and still have something to do. We saw a great deal of it this past summer, even we had several corps looking to join us due to missing CEO's/'the one guy that scanned got married'/chunks of their memberbase moved to null.
In the end we have to be careful what we wish for. Either we accept that most groups will follow the cycle of begin/grow/move up/burn out/move out and the failures will litter w-space with their dead sticks - those that couldn't motivate their members to reach into their own wallets or rat for the group to recoup theft losses, or even, in the end, just log-in. Or we're saying that something has fundamentally changed and the old style evolution of w-space groups is no longer possible. |
MaxDEL
Quantum Explosion E X P L O S I O N
112
|
Posted - 2014.09.20 12:49:00 -
[66] - Quote
Offered crank RMT operation with our isk, put all together and hire a hitman to kill CCP Fozzie) Then other developers come to their senses and will listen to the community of players, and do not spit in our face as he did. |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
358
|
Posted - 2014.09.20 13:10:00 -
[67] - Quote
Sith1s Spectre wrote:I think you guys are forgetting one main important thing.
People.
I mean I could list at least a dozen great other groups/leaders/content creators who simply aren't around or have moved on.
Sure, there are up and coming groups within WH space who have filled a couple of the voids as of late but when you have so many people leaving the game (and or WH space) it still leave a big gap.
I think that it's happening not just within WH space, but Eve in general and unfortunately I don't really have a solution to that problem
The problem is that EVE is boring. After enough time a person just settles in to a pattern and then gets bored and leaves. This is especially true for solo players.
Some people will make the functionally redundant statement about EVE being an MMO, teamwork, etc. No children, MMO doesn't mean you have to cooperate with people, it just means there are other people around to be mindful of.
How do these two points correlate? Simple, EVE's playerbase is toxic and through the feedback loops incessant ganking and hotdropping etc people are actively killing their own game. Evictions aren't content, it might serve a purpose if you actually intend to profit from it but long term it doesn't really give you anything.
Same thing goes with perma-camping players in lowsec with hotdrop alts. Oh that's a stroke of genius, jesus christ, removing valuable gameplay options through convincing another player to just outright quit and play another game entirely is so clever. Well done Einstein, for a vision of your empty game jump on SISI and go for a cruise somewhere.
Pretty fuckin boring. Tonight I logged in and scanned two systems in my k-space base. Found 7 or 8 wormholes, all of them too high catagory for me to play in and then the local goons started entering system checking on who it was that dared to show up on the eve-map 30minute activity timer. So I just docked up and logged off again. First time logging in for 16 days and this is the bullshit I find. The same stuff that made me take a breather to begin with. No content that facilitates PUGs or any analogy of PUGs, every player is so desperate for action they will just kill you because they NEED to for some unknowable reason.
I don't feel like a victim, I'm just bored. I can't carry enough gear in my T3 to warrant deep-diving in WH space and finding a better location, my cerb in the same location would just be a flying coffin. **** that ****. Lowsec has its own problems with people flying hotdrop alts. Highsec is terrible too, since you're only permitted to retaliate to aggression even though you're being inhibited through hostile force to start with. Nullsec is the worst of the lot. Nullsec combines everything bad about every other part of space and then adds capitals and supercapitals in to the mixture. There is literally nothing worthwhile to do in nullsec. Nothing.
Give me 1000m3 of space in my tengu and I might actually start living in WH the way I want to. Which is solo. I can't justify carrying so much bullshit that my cargo is 99% ancillary mods just to get me in and out of a WH without being severely hindered or outright unable to cloak or scan. The fact that mobile depots are scannable when wrecks and cans are not is also deplorable. Scan down my ship, depots should NOT be scannable. That is the single worst feature about depots today. They actively work against the thing they were designed for by introducing too much vulnerability.
Without anything for solo pilots to do (read, 92% of the games population by headcount) is it any surprise that they're dropping off like flies?
Aside from making depots non-scannable as an immediate and vital fix for them, larger T3 cargo bays so they can actually carry more than one complete fitting and some ammo, I really need a reason to even run low class sites. They're pathetic. If CCP wants to focus on k-space more that's fine, but there's quick and immediate actions that can be taken *right now* to plug holes in the game design that would encourage more use especially of wormholes instead of giving me another night of "oh look, C3/C4 wormholes, too bad I can't do anything in them". https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
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Borsek
Incertae Sedis
254
|
Posted - 2014.09.20 13:30:00 -
[68] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:A very long post.
While your points are kind-of valid, you're forgetting eve is a game of alts. Even CCP knows that, they're advertising the power of two on your account management page. If you're a single pilot, you need friends, or, if you are solo, you need alts. That's the way eve has always been.
There are things you can and things you can't do. Turning eve into a cuddly wuddly mmo where if your ship gets blown up you respawn in a station, in the same ship, or where a ship can fit multiple roles very well - scanner, PvE, PvP, hauler, even with things like mobile depots, is a step in the wrong direction.
TL;DR Get alts or friends, and the game will be more fun. It's you vs. the world, and it seems to go a lot better if there's a lot of you's or you+friends. |
Winthorp
2733
|
Posted - 2014.09.20 13:45:00 -
[69] - Quote
MaxDEL wrote:Offered crank RMT operation with our isk, put all together and hire a hitman to kill CCP Fozzie) Then other developers come to their senses and will listen to the community of players, and do not spit in our face as he did.
Reported.
Pretty sure that's a paddlin. |
Ilaister
Task Force Proteus Protean Concept
99
|
Posted - 2014.09.20 14:04:00 -
[70] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
The problem is that EVE is boring. After enough time a person just settles in to a pattern and then gets bored and leaves. This is especially true for solo players.
I get the impression from your post your idea of a non-boring time is shooting at sleepers in a low class WH. That's not setting the bar very high at all.....
Agree with you on T3 cargo however. My ghost running T3 is barely capable of a halfway decent refit after depot etc. are loaded up.
Depots can be made harder to scan, buy a Yurt :) |
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ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
192
|
Posted - 2014.09.20 14:07:00 -
[71] - Quote
A few reminders to keep this thread on topic and productive:
Quote:2. Be respectful toward others at all times.
The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.
31. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.
CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties.
Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts. I have removed a few rule breaking posts as a result. ISD Decoy Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Hatshepsut IV
Cascading Failure Un.Bound
267
|
Posted - 2014.09.20 14:17:00 -
[72] - Quote
Ilaister wrote:Very well said things.
I don't even nesscarily thing all the big groups have to split up and become small corps either. Large groups are excellent targets for joint ops and thing of that sort.
Your first point hit it on the money, we get some new new people of that ilk coming in to try w-space and having it stick for them. Eves a game with a huge learning curve and w-space has a huge gulf between hay let's try this and the professional sharks of bobs little ocean. You too can start failing today! Reddit-áad | Cascading Failure Public Channel | Aspiring Failure
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Incindir Mauser
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
445
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 17:57:00 -
[73] - Quote
Hidden Fremen wrote:What's it gonna take to please you? With all things being as they are, Hyperion and all... what will make you happy? What do you wanna see happen(ing) that you won't ***** about?
It's only obvious, and sad, that CCP broke wspace for the majority of its residents, so suppose they're not really giving a **** about trying to revert it... What can the player base do to reignite the love for wspace?
It's not so much about CCP kissing our collective derrieres to make us "happy".
CCP is going to do what the hell they want, when the hell they want, and damn the consequences because W-space residents don't occupy enough of a bloc that is willing to unsub enmasse and hit CCP where it really hurts. The wallet.
Hyperion fulfilled it's purpose, it shook up W-space in ways that we did want, and in ways we didn't want. CCP impacted W-Space most significantly with the changes to Incursions, essentially catering hand and foot to the PvE neckbeards. CCP made Incursions more convenient and consistently more profitable than they have been in a couple of years. Why would bears put significant assets, risk losing expensive ships all the time, and deal with the hassle of setting up, maintaining, and fueling POSes when they can fly around in blingy ships in Hisec and brag about their DPS like WoW raiding dropouts? (As if it really matters.)
I would prefer benign neglect to active integration of features that undermine and detract from our chosen playstyle.
There are always going to be the big corporations, if it's not Lazerhawks or Hard Knocks, it'll be someone else that is the "Dirty Dirty Blobbers" that everyone is jelly about and hates on because they're on top and have a good teamwork. There is nothing we can really do to make W-space more attractive because the underlying reasons to live out here have been sabotaged by CCP's changes elsewhere in the game.
It's pretty safe to say that we play Eve because of the people we know. For the last two years we've been running around kicking each other in the balls with invasions. It's not a great strategy to keep people around, but what are you supposed to do when that smack-talk gets a little too personal? It's not risky and exciting if everyone agrees to not invade and burn each other out. There definitely needs to be consequences for unacceptable behavior.
We choose to live in W-space because it's profitable and it allows us to kill each other in really expensive ships in a degree of freedom unsupportable elsewhere in New Eden.
Right now it's easier to go make money shooting Sansha in Hisec than it is to run anoms in W-space. Most people want to logically maximize what they like to do and avoid things that are needlessly banal and boring.
CCP's idea of making something interesting and challenging is to make it needlessly hard for what appears to be only for complexities sake.
People will flock back to W-space when the hassle of living out here is worth the risk and annoyance. Right now it's not.
W-space has maximum risk.
W-space should have maximum reward. Full stop. |
Thomas Hurt
Future Methods
320
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 21:42:00 -
[74] - Quote
Hyperion was Good, IMO. |
Arcturus Gallow
Three Stars Association
6
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 01:41:00 -
[75] - Quote
What can players do to reignite the love for Wspace?
That cannot be the signle ultimate solution, but I think what we do in my corp is a good example that some people could follow. 6 month ago we were highsec carebears. We took a little over 2 month to teach our group about basic pvp, scanning and wormhole mechanics, as well as skilling. Then we moved to a C4>C4 and lived there 4month, learned the ropes, improved as a group, make money and feel the environment of wormholes in general. Three weeks ago we proceeded to leave our C4, and after a few logistical issues, Bob offered us the exact C5>C5 we were looking for.
And we totally love wormhole space and the adventures we have here. We may have the newbie syndrome, as we are far from experienced compared to most wormhole groups, but still our current situation is very appreciated by us as a group. We could make a lot more money, we could have more PvP, we could be way better at it. And we are trying to go that way.
I think what you guys in big and old corp and alliances miss that feeling: you guys already make mad isk, you already know the best way to find fights and ganks, you already have a sufficient playerbase, with enough skills to have super efficient fleet most of the time. You already can crush anyone like my corporation, you just have to decide it. You do not have much challenge to overcome. You are bored of you former love. And Wspace in general is not as lively as it could, so you miss lesser entities to fight. You lack stuff to achieve, you lack equally strong rivals. And finally you seem to lack a bigger goal, something you have not yet achieved that could drive motivation in your group. I feel it is very important to have a greater goal for a group. A next mountain to climb collectively. If you dont, people will start to go back home, and leave you alone and bored at the top of your already climbed mountain.
Me and some corpmates could have join one of these groups, and enjoy the protection that comes with the membership of such a group, enjoy the knowledge, the skill and organization, and the big income opportunity. But I honestly think that if I had, I would be bored of wspace by now, and I would not have learn so much, because I would not have any need to. No need to learn to FC if I have an already really good one in my corp. No need to learn how to farm efficiently if I already have people letting me join perfectly run cap escalations with really clear and precise explanation on what to do when.
Finally, we feel that a fleet size of 15 is perfect for a good pvp experience, and still having a lot of different kind of engagement open. We are a single timezone group, and to have regularly 15 people in fleet, you do not need to have more than 30 active players in you group which roughly equate to less than 100chars in corp.
Being more is too much according to me. If you have more than 30 active people, you will start to have a lot of people that do not know each other in the group. You will start to meet groups that just dont have the number to fight you. You will waste some potential, as you only need one or two FC per group, one or two skilled scouts/tackler etc.
It is not reallistic to ask bigger groups to split. But I think it is possible for smaller group around the size I mentioned to compete with them at some level. If we have enough "medium" groups like this in wspace it could be really more interesting to live in wspace for everyone.
And it does not take that much to have this. Helping people to form new groups, making a complete guide/wiki with how to run pve fleets, how to manage group income, pos living, corp security. Show that a group of noob with only a few experienced players willing to lead a bit is able with a bit of work to become a respectable wormhole entity. I think even without taking people by the hand, just making known that you do not have to join the top dogs to have a nice experience in wormhole space, and that you do not need to be 300 to live in C5. You do not even need to be able to run cap escalations to make decent money as a group etc. Encouraging people to try, and being generally helpful with wormhole newcomers is the way to go.
Just as a conclusion: early during our C4 days we met a fleet of ~15 guys in T2/3 cruisers from a bigger/older wormhole entity. We engaged with our 8-10 man battlecruiser and t1logi gang, and got obliterated, but the guys warmly congratulated us and gave us a bit of isk as a wormhole welcoming. Even if we lost, and monetary wise it was hurtful at that time for us, we felt respected and encouraged to keep fighting. This is the right kind of attitude to have if you want to have people to fight with.
|
Rei Moon
Murderous Inc
65
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 02:29:00 -
[76] - Quote
Arcturus Gallow wrote:What can players do to reignite the love for Wspace?
That cannot be the signle ultimate solution, but I think what we do in my corp is a good example that some people could follow. 6 month ago we were highsec carebears. We took a little over 2 month to teach our group about basic pvp, scanning and wormhole mechanics, as well as skilling. Then we moved to a C4>C4 and lived there 4month, learned the ropes, improved as a group, make money and feel the environment of wormholes in general. Three weeks ago we proceeded to leave our C4, and after a few logistical issues, Bob offered us the exact C5>C5 we were looking for.
And we totally love wormhole space and the adventures we have here. We may have the newbie syndrome, as we are far from experienced compared to most wormhole groups, but still our current situation is very appreciated by us as a group. We could make a lot more money, we could have more PvP, we could be way better at it. And we are trying to go that way.
I think what you guys in big and old corp and alliances miss that feeling: you guys already make mad isk, you already know the best way to find fights and ganks, you already have a sufficient playerbase, with enough skills to have super efficient fleet most of the time. You already can crush anyone like my corporation, you just have to decide it. You do not have much challenge to overcome. You are bored of you former love. And Wspace in general is not as lively as it could, so you miss lesser entities to fight. You lack stuff to achieve, you lack equally strong rivals. And finally you seem to lack a bigger goal, something you have not yet achieved that could drive motivation in your group. I feel it is very important to have a greater goal for a group. A next mountain to climb collectively. If you dont, people will start to go back home, and leave you alone and bored at the top of your already climbed mountain.
Me and some corpmates could have join one of these groups, and enjoy the protection that comes with the membership of such a group, enjoy the knowledge, the skill and organization, and the big income opportunity. But I honestly think that if I had, I would be bored of wspace by now, and I would not have learn so much, because I would not have any need to. No need to learn to FC if I have an already really good one in my corp. No need to learn how to farm efficiently if I already have people letting me join perfectly run cap escalations with really clear and precise explanation on what to do when.
Finally, we feel that a fleet size of 15 is perfect for a good pvp experience, and still having a lot of different kind of engagement open. We are a single timezone group, and to have regularly 15 people in fleet, you do not need to have more than 30 active players in you group which roughly equate to less than 100chars in corp.
Being more is too much according to me. If you have more than 30 active people, you will start to have a lot of people that do not know each other in the group. You will start to meet groups that just dont have the number to fight you. You will waste some potential, as you only need one or two FC per group, one or two skilled scouts/tackler etc.
It is not reallistic to ask bigger groups to split. But I think it is possible for smaller group around the size I mentioned to compete with them at some level. If we have enough "medium" groups like this in wspace it could be really more interesting to live in wspace for everyone.
And it does not take that much to have this. Helping people to form new groups, making a complete guide/wiki with how to run pve fleets, how to manage group income, pos living, corp security. Show that a group of noob with only a few experienced players willing to lead a bit is able with a bit of work to become a respectable wormhole entity. I think even without taking people by the hand, just making known that you do not have to join the top dogs to have a nice experience in wormhole space, and that you do not need to be 300 to live in C5. You do not even need to be able to run cap escalations to make decent money as a group etc. Encouraging people to try, and being generally helpful with wormhole newcomers is the way to go.
Just as a conclusion: early during our C4 days we met a fleet of ~15 guys in T2/3 cruisers from a bigger/older wormhole entity. We engaged with our 8-10 man battlecruiser and t1logi gang, and got obliterated, but the guys warmly congratulated us and gave us a bit of isk as a wormhole welcoming. Even if we lost, and monetary wise it was hurtful at that time for us, we felt respected and encouraged to keep fighting. This is the right kind of attitude to have if you want to have people to fight with.
For the low class wormholes, I just know that a group with ~10 people can have a very nice experience living in a hole with a C3 or C4 static. And all of this doable in battlecruiser. Wspace may be really hard for solo players or 3-4 man corps, but with a little bit of organization, it seems perfectly fine to me for a 6+ man group to live in wspace with such statics.
Finally if you just play eve for the rewards, run incursions. You will die of boredom after two weeks, and realize that this game is not really about isk. In my opinion, living in C4 was a incredible gaming experience compared to running incursions, even if I made much less money there.
1v1 next time. Don't even consider rolling again! #) <3
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2303
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 09:33:00 -
[77] - Quote
Pro TIps wrote:Not to tread on the "discussion of forum moderation" too much, but there was a cool thread the other day from Lazerhawks that was entirely about a W-space siege and it got kicked to some other sub-forum.
Yet two weeks ago, CCP partnered with that eve-bet site to basically manufacture a rare super kill with hopes of generating some interest in both the event (clearly successul as 4000+ in system) and maybe in getting people to re-subscribe or whatever.
How does the CCP PR machine not communicate to ISD that a thread about sieging someone's hole is fun and interesting to read; and the kind of thing some players might aspire to participate in? They should want to elevate news like this, not bury it in a different sub-forum to cut off discussion.
So my point here is, they spent a bunch of dev effort basically trying to promote more W-space PVP, but there is a thread telling about a siege and instead of going, hey, here is players having fun (at least the Lazerhawks side) they fail to recognize the potential upside of that and actually bury it. Yes, it was an interesting thread, yes it concerned Wormhole play. That said, I would hardly call moving it to Crime & Punishment 'burying', as that part of the forum is at least just as active as the Wormhole section, if not more. If the OP of that thread did not want it to get moved or at least severely edited, he should not have included the killmails. If you think the forum rules on posting killmails are somehow wrong or obsolete, please feel free to post a proposal for change of those rules in the Features & Ideas Discussion part of the forum, keeping you proposal firmly away from discussing (specific) forum moderation. CCL does not make the rules, we enforce them.
On that note, if CCP were to post a thread about a fight containing killmails in the OP and it would not have been posted in C&P (or in CCP's case, also not in EVE Information Portal), it would just as well get moved by me. Or have those killmail links removed.
I have written this rather uncommon explanation as I have witnessed some antagonism against forum moderation in the Wormhole section of the forum lately, quite often originating from posters having only a marginal understanding of the forum rules. Please do not continue discussing forum moderation in this thread, or on any part of the forum. If you are perceiving a problem with ISD behaviour on the forum or are disagreeing with the way (your) posts are being moderated, please feel free to read the CCP policies and follow the procedure found under the header 'Complaints'.
Besides, next time I see any of you in W-space while logged in with my playing main, I will do my utmost best to sacrifice you to Bob. Or, of course, die trying.... ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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ISD Atomic Dove
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
45
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 10:04:00 -
[78] - Quote
I've cleaned this up a bit but please remain respectful, on topic and avoid discussing forum moderation.
ISD Atomic Dove Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Rengas
Origin. Black Legion.
404
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 10:35:00 -
[79] - Quote
CCP are about as good at wormhole PR as they are at generating Revenant killmails |
Alicia Stormbringer
xLegion of the dammedx. Moose Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 20:44:00 -
[80] - Quote
Ever considered the possibility CCP are screwing up wormhole space to slow isk making so people use real money to pay to play?
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Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
32
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 20:53:00 -
[81] - Quote
Alicia Stormbringer wrote:Ever considered the possibility CCP are screwing up wormhole space to slow isk making so people use real money to pay to play?
I dont see them screw up isk making in incursion, so not really, no..
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Nancy Wayke
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 21:01:00 -
[82] - Quote
CivilWars wrote:Don't get me wrong, my killboard is littered with mining barges, sleeper site running ships, hole rolling caps, and even the infamous PI Rorq. I will take any and all kills that present themselves. However, that being said, if the only PVP content in w-space is ganking PVE pilots with limited situation awareness that gets old pretty quick. My favorite moments in w-space were the fights we had with HK, LZHX, Ixtab, NoHo, Whale Girth, etc where both sides willfully put billions on the field, and both sides felt there was a chance for victory or defeat.
You might not prey on mining barges and such as a primary target, but some people do. And then other groups prey on them, and then they are in turn preyed on by other groups, until you get to the force sizes and coherent doctrines that larger wormhole entities bring to the mix. There is a food chain of PvP; if you don't have any Krill, you end up with starving Great Whites. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
702
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 21:59:00 -
[83] - Quote
Nancy Wayke wrote:CivilWars wrote:Don't get me wrong, my killboard is littered with mining barges, sleeper site running ships, hole rolling caps, and even the infamous PI Rorq. I will take any and all kills that present themselves. However, that being said, if the only PVP content in w-space is ganking PVE pilots with limited situation awareness that gets old pretty quick. My favorite moments in w-space were the fights we had with HK, LZHX, Ixtab, NoHo, Whale Girth, etc where both sides willfully put billions on the field, and both sides felt there was a chance for victory or defeat. You might not prey on mining barges and such as a primary target, but some people do. And then other groups prey on them, and then they are in turn preyed on by other groups, until you get to the force sizes and coherent doctrines that larger wormhole entities bring to the mix. There is a food chain of PvP; if you don't have any Krill, you end up with starving Great Whites.
Would prefer an analogy like a lake with only ten starving northern pikes of varying sizes in it. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
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CivilWars
Rolled Out Triumvirate.
196
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 22:12:00 -
[84] - Quote
Nancy Wayke wrote:CivilWars wrote:Don't get me wrong, my killboard is littered with mining barges, sleeper site running ships, hole rolling caps, and even the infamous PI Rorq. I will take any and all kills that present themselves. However, that being said, if the only PVP content in w-space is ganking PVE pilots with limited situation awareness that gets old pretty quick. My favorite moments in w-space were the fights we had with HK, LZHX, Ixtab, NoHo, Whale Girth, etc where both sides willfully put billions on the field, and both sides felt there was a chance for victory or defeat. You might not prey on mining barges and such as a primary target, but some people do. And then other groups prey on them, and then they are in turn preyed on by other groups, until you get to the force sizes and coherent doctrines that larger wormhole entities bring to the mix. There is a food chain of PvP; if you don't have any Krill, you end up with starving Great Whites. I will say in all my time in w-space I caught someone trying to catch someone else, other than actual paid merc contracts, maybe once. Either way, in your analogy the people looking to gank miners, or the people looking to gank people ganking miners, are not looking to have an actual brawl, so they would still hide or log off at the sight of any real fight. You don't get more fleet battles by bringing in more farmers, you get them by bringing in more FCs. We Re-Rolled. Stop by public channel Rolled Out to join the fun.
Hidden Fremen liked your forum post:... |
Nutmegpainter
Whale Girth Grand Sky Wizards
71
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 00:03:00 -
[85] - Quote
R.I.P. w space
edit: i mean the nice commit 3 caps into somebodys home fights, not low-class gankage
reviewing kbs, when was the last time this happened? compared to pre-hyperion i wonder if overall kills in wpsace has gone up or down? same question for the amount isk killed...
I wonder how many people are flooding the market with their safely farmed nanoribbons..
at least blue loot prices wont be nerf-d (knocks on wood)
lmao because thats next on CCCP's list |
Nitshe
Whale Girth Grand Sky Wizards
8
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 00:13:00 -
[86] - Quote
The Problem is CCP is also doing all this changes and doesn't ask wormhole people.
You guys tell me
Any of you vote on and changes?
Did you guys give any ideas to ccp ?
We suppose to have representative for WH Space in CSM. Are these CSM people ask our opinions ?
They don't ask our opinion about changes or how changes coming alone. They just decide deliver with CSM and thats it.
First think needs to change is we need to able to put our opinions and decide what is next for wormhole space. Not somebody else.
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Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
510
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 00:34:00 -
[87] - Quote
CCP did ask us, though. Look what happened as a result :P
And I'm pretty sure we've thrown caps in for PvP through a WH post-Hyperion. Snipped signature for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne |
Nitshe
Whale Girth Grand Sky Wizards
9
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 00:58:00 -
[88] - Quote
That's good because we did not vote for anything. :P
Yeah we can't chain role anymore:P that wormhole needs to be spawn closer again. :P
Other changes are fine I think I can live with but that jump spawn kill our rolling events :P
Hidden Fremen wrote:CCP did ask us, though. Look what happened as a result :P
And I'm pretty sure we've thrown caps in for PvP through a WH post-Hyperion. |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
1634
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 01:10:00 -
[89] - Quote
nanoribbons are climbing in value. QED, wormhole space is losing population.
Frigate holes, when was the last time you went through one or interacted with one? That's right - the day of the patch, or at latest, the day before they changed the k162 description to read "small ships only". I found 6 in 3 wormholes last night and used none of them.
I think what players can do is stop being lazy mealy-mouthed cowards and join smaller corporations. One problem linked to the atrocious state of POS security is the paranoia which people exercise in recruitment, and also exercise in their efforts to be recruited. people will not recruit toons with colourful or somewhat lengthy employment records, and the corollary of that is that people are afraid to join smaller corps and give it a try, because they think they are putting dirty great fingerprints of unreliability all over their rap sheet. So they hold out to join a big corp.
objectively, this may seem like a good move. You get reflected prestige, glory, and get content creators and buds to fly with. But realistically, you have just as much chance of fitting in, finding a niche, making spacebuds you will fly with for 6-12+ months at a time, and having fun.
But speaking as a content creator, the glory you get to bask in which i shed is just as valuable and far more hilarious than you'll get by being Random Member 421 in SSC, or Random member 322 in hard knocks. Being Valued member 32 in BUGRY or any other decent, small, PVP corp in w-space is that you get to participate in just as much PVP, more often, via more and more nefarious means. I mean...people will still attack my bait haulers. They wouldn't even bother if they saw the SSC, LZHX or HK tags.
So there is as much an onus on the recruit as the recruiter to make a good decision. New bros can and should join smaller corps, even if it is to do mining or gassing or PI. Speaking for myself only, i will willingly let you welp a Slasher day and night just because it distracts a guy for 10 seconds from DPSing my boat. That might not sound like glory, but if you prostitute yourself onto a T3 killmail and lose a 5m ISK frig in the process, your killboard will look red hot after the twentieth one.
That said, since CCP is about gifting limitless free ISK in Incursions, they really DO need to address wormhole ISK especially in low-class wormholes where you can't magically escalate more money out of nothing. C4 mags and radars (relics, data w/e) have Incursion level DPS from the 4 Safeguards and you make 125-ish million from a site which doesn't respawn infinitely.
In fact, wormhole space is the only space where the only limitless ISK is the PI, and that's not spectacular.
People are just being rational about it, and funding hours of wormhole boredom by putting up with incursion neckbeards. J's before K's. Sudden Buggery is recruiting w-nerds and w-noobs. Mail your resume in today! http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
|
Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
510
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 02:16:00 -
[90] - Quote
Venturing out on your own, taking a chance on a smaller corp, starting your own corp; all good things. Snipped signature for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne |
|
Andiedeath
Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance
277
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 07:01:00 -
[91] - Quote
Personally I am not for evicting corps from wormholes as we need the population to stay although I am for whatever generates content. We want MORE PVP communities in wormhole space. We do also want to get a new breed of PVE toons. I say start finding and spamming wormhole advertisements. I've already gotten 2-3 bites from small PVE groups for a reasonable Class 2 wormhole.
Lets get a new breed of wormholer in to wormhole space! Director Swift Angels Alliance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3247397#post3247397 INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public |
Nancy Wayke
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 08:06:00 -
[92] - Quote
CivilWars wrote:I will say in all my time in w-space I caught someone trying to catch someone else, other than actual paid merc contracts, maybe once. Either way, in your analogy the people looking to gank miners, or the people looking to gank people ganking miners, are not looking to have an actual brawl, so they would still hide or log off at the sight of any real fight. You don't get more fleet battles by bringing in more farmers, you get them by bringing in more FCs. I think I have attacked people setting up a gank probably 10-20 times during my time in wormhole space - but I didn't mean things quite so literally.
I wasn't referring to people being in the same system at the same time; I was talking about people having the confidence in themselves to engage a group that is 'better' than they are and that they won't be slaughtered to a humiliating extent.
My group won't take on NOHO, nor will we take on AE, if we have the choice. They are too high up the ladder for us to reach. We can do nothing to them; all we can do is die in a fire.
We have, with careful scouting, taken on The Red Circle. They bloodied our nose, but we fought them to a standstill after taking some losses, and both groups stood down with 'good fights' on both sides.
Groups less competent than us have taken a risk in trying to get us to engage. We have beaten them on many occasions, but on a few it has turned out less well than we expected.
There is a food chain.
You need the Krill. |
Kira Hhallas
Very Drunken Eve Flying Instructors Brotherhood Of Silent Space
402
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 08:22:00 -
[93] - Quote
To much letters for me....
As i already said, give the people more possibilities to earn ISK. PVP is coming from alone.
And well we adapt to the new changes. And well not all is bad. Yes, there are More Wormhole Connections. Yes, you need more People for Farming C4s.
So, CCP give the People the chance to make ISK in Lower WH Classes, and a bunch of people are willing to move into the WH Space. -> More People in WH Space - > More PVP in WH Space
I live since four- five years in W-Space, I cant really remember when I moved into W-Space in my first C2. But I can remember, at the golden day of w-space, in a C2 you were able to buy two - three PLEX per month. And have fun with three or four People.
So what happen over the Time ..... out of my point of view.... cant tell what is the situation in higher WH Systems. ISK Income in lower WH Systems droped.
Well bigger Corps in Higher WH system made there money with Cap eskaltions, etc.... But for smaller Corps rise the risk for earn some ISK to high.
Why should they go into W-Space, If they have Blue Heaven in NULL sec.
In NULL Space its much easier to make ISK. I don't think I have to explain why. Lokal, Intel, Site spawning.... etc...
And as I said at the beginning of my post, rise the income and people will come back.
Okay that's my point of view, if I am wrong please so tell me.
Kira Hhallas - Austrian EvE Community - ingame =+ûsterreich= -
Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare |
Mithandra
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
145
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 08:27:00 -
[94] - Quote
Nitshe wrote:That's good because we did not vote for anything. :P Yeah we can't chain role anymore:P that wormhole needs to be spawn closer again. :P Other changes are fine I think I can live with but that jump spawn kill our rolling events :P Hidden Fremen wrote:CCP did ask us, though. Look what happened as a result :P
And I'm pretty sure we've thrown caps in for PvP through a WH post-Hyperion.
Still in a C5 and still rolling holes. How we do it has changed but its still going on.
Maybe you need to get out of your comfort zone and I dunno, experiment? Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
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Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
33
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 09:24:00 -
[95] - Quote
Kira Hhallas wrote:Well bigger Corps in Higher WH system made there money with Cap eskaltions, etc.... But for smaller Corps rise the risk for earn some ISK to high.
Just because you live in a c5 or c6, doesn't mean you are stinking rich. A system can only support so many people really. And you can't fully cap escelate in c5/c6 static (you can partial, but at a much higher risk).
Also remember, when you run cap escelations, you field like a 20b+ worth. If you get ganked, it will take you around 8 hours of grinding sites to recoup the loss, assuming you have the sites to do it. (and if you have like 2 sites spawning for a entire week, well good luck with that). If you lost a tengu or similar running sites in a c3, you probably would spend just as long grind sites in a c3 to recover that as well.
If it was just about isk, I would just stick to industry in high sec.
Also there is a limit of how many sites you really feel like running. I look at it as a need to cover bills and loss's not to get as much in your wallet as possible. Although any month where more come in than out is a good thing, but been on both side of the fence there. |
Kira Hhallas
Very Drunken Eve Flying Instructors Brotherhood Of Silent Space
402
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 10:45:00 -
[96] - Quote
I think the risk is no so high, bigger corps have more Scouts, have more options how they react. So if you close your Static in a C5 / C6 I think you will have a realy peacefully day with PVE.
I get reports from our other WH Corps, since Hyperion , they have more then five holes at day,.. that's not so funny for smaller corps. And with the new frigs holes, what can happen in a C5/C6... a Frig fleet will never go into a Site with Caps and Sleeper in it. Frig-Fleets looking only for Prey in Lower WH System and NULL sec for prey. With ten frigs you can kill a Tengu but not a carrier or a dread.
So if you field 20b+ in a Cap escelations, the other side need also bring more stuff to gank you out of your ships. Or do you want to tell me 4 Carrier and 2 Dreads + Supports are easy to kill? A Small Corp will never engage you. They will try to combat close there WH. Only bigger Corps with 15 - 25 People in the Fleet will fight.
So i think, you have more loss, if you get ganked, but lesser RISK to be ganked. Or i am wrong in this point ?
And i think its just about the ISK / RISK Factor for many players / smaller corps. They calculate in this way. To many Wormholes = to much risk = more time to close the WH = lesser income -> moving out the W-space
... i wish to write in german, in English i feel like i am argumenting like child..... grrrr...... Kira Hhallas - Austrian EvE Community - ingame =+ûsterreich= -
Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare |
Nancy Wayke
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 11:15:00 -
[97] - Quote
Kira Hhallas wrote:... i wish to write in german, in English i feel like i am argumenting like child..... grrrr...... You make your point well enough - you don't want to see me trying to say anything in German...
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Axloth Okiah
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
501
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 11:40:00 -
[98] - Quote
Why is this debated mostly by NPC alts and nullseccers? W-Space Realtor |
Kira Hhallas
Very Drunken Eve Flying Instructors Brotherhood Of Silent Space
402
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 11:47:00 -
[99] - Quote
I am not a nullseccer, i life only in a C3 with Static NULL,.. more fun for everyone *g* Kira Hhallas - Austrian EvE Community - ingame =+ûsterreich= -
Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare |
Winthorp
2739
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 11:58:00 -
[100] - Quote
Axloth Okiah wrote:Why is this debated mostly by NPC alts and nullseccers?
Why is it that people that never get involved in discussions like to rabble rabble while they pos spin in their WH waiting for a jabber content ping to go out? |
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CivilWars
Rolled Out Triumvirate.
196
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 13:57:00 -
[101] - Quote
Axloth Okiah wrote:Why is this debated mostly by NPC alts and nullseccers? Because w-space is ded? We Re-Rolled. Stop by public channel Rolled Out to join the fun.
Hidden Fremen liked your forum post:... |
Kira Hhallas
Very Drunken Eve Flying Instructors Brotherhood Of Silent Space
402
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 14:06:00 -
[102] - Quote
Come on, dont be so dramtic.... it still twitches...... Kira Hhallas - Austrian EvE Community - ingame =+ûsterreich= -
Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare |
Axloth Okiah
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
502
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 14:15:00 -
[103] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:Axloth Okiah wrote:Why is this debated mostly by NPC alts and nullseccers? Why is it that people that never get involved in discussions like to rabble rabble while they pos spin in their WH waiting for a jabber content ping to go out? If thats aimed at me, then its just hilariously misguided...
W-Space Realtor |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
702
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 14:49:00 -
[104] - Quote
Axloth Okiah wrote:Why is this debated mostly by NPC alts and nullseccers?
People still think they'd be invaded for having an opinion. And tbh, there is only a tiny gap between nullseccer and wormholian, wormholians usually get away with even less pvp skillz tbh.
"I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
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Aryex
Bastard Children of Poinen
2
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 15:58:00 -
[105] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:I think what players can do is stop being lazy mealy-mouthed cowards and join smaller corporations. One problem linked to the atrocious state of POS security is the paranoia which people exercise in recruitment, and also exercise in their efforts to be recruited. people will not recruit toons with colourful or somewhat lengthy employment records, and the corollary of that is that people are afraid to join smaller corps and give it a try, because they think they are putting dirty great fingerprints of unreliability all over their rap sheet. So they hold out to join a big corp.
I wonder if it's time to rethink the permanent corp history.
Make it like a resume, where everything more than a year old just drops off, except perhaps for your initial newbie corporation.
Combined with finer grained access controls on SMAs, and the ability to kick an undocked player from your corporation, and I think that you'd have a major improvement in the ability to recruit new players to your corporations without quite as much paranoia. Sure the newbro could be a spai who awoxes you on an operation, but they wouldn't necessarilly have the rights to completely empty your SMA, and if traveling in hisec, they could be booted instantly thus stopping an awox in progress against anyone who doesn't already have a timer.
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Mithandra
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
146
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 18:37:00 -
[106] - Quote
Aryex wrote:Trinkets friend wrote:I think what players can do is stop being lazy mealy-mouthed cowards and join smaller corporations. One problem linked to the atrocious state of POS security is the paranoia which people exercise in recruitment, and also exercise in their efforts to be recruited. people will not recruit toons with colourful or somewhat lengthy employment records, and the corollary of that is that people are afraid to join smaller corps and give it a try, because they think they are putting dirty great fingerprints of unreliability all over their rap sheet. So they hold out to join a big corp. I wonder if it's time to rethink the permanent corp history. Make it like a resume, where everything more than a year old just drops off, except perhaps for your initial newbie corporation. Combined with finer grained access controls on SMAs, and the ability to kick an undocked player from your corporation, and I think that you'd have a major improvement in the ability to recruit new players to your corporations without quite as much paranoia. Sure the newbro could be a spai who awoxes you on an operation, but they wouldn't necessarilly have the rights to completely empty your SMA, and if traveling in hisec, they could be booted instantly thus stopping an awox in progress against anyone who doesn't already have a timer.
Sorry, but no. Paranoia and a robust recruitment policy keeps corp assets where they belong... in corp.
I like paranoia, I am the most paranoid recruiter you will ever find. I consider other paranoiacs to be far too liberal, and yet I am still managing to recruit quality players. I would not be happy with corp history being truncated at the one year point. Too many ways for eve players to exploit that and steal my corp stuff.
Grab their interest by the throat and they will come. Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
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Incindir Mauser
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
455
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 21:30:00 -
[107] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Axloth Okiah wrote:Why is this debated mostly by NPC alts and nullseccers? People still think they'd be invaded for having an opinion. And tbh, there is only a tiny gap between nullseccer and wormholian, wormholians usually get away with even less pvp skillz tbh.
People do get invaded for having an opinion. Especially if it is to declare yourself Kings of W-space after moving out. You can also get invaded and burned out for using too many "Your momma is so fat.." jokes in local. It's a legitimate fear. Talk **** to the wrong people, they might just gather some friends and burn your house down with you sleeping inside.
We can't have just any insane ruffians hanging about in systems with J-tags... they need to be cultured space barbarians.
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Cosmic Scanner
Temnava Legion No Holes Barred
90
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 23:43:00 -
[108] - Quote
I actually kinda think reducing the amount of high end wormhole systems would be good change. This could make w-space less empty and more valuable. It would probably leave less room for the sheer amount of farmers there are at present. I would probably look to reduce the amount of wormholes to something like:
C4 = 300 (from 505) C5 = 200 (from 512) C6 = 50 (from 113)
It might mean you bump into the same people more often but it will likely mean less empty systems and more day to day action. Or CCP brings more players in somehow, but i don't see it happening soon.
Cosmic Scanner / muu lufragga |
CivilWars
Rolled Out Triumvirate.
197
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 23:58:00 -
[109] - Quote
Incindir Mauser wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:Axloth Okiah wrote:Why is this debated mostly by NPC alts and nullseccers? People still think they'd be invaded for having an opinion. And tbh, there is only a tiny gap between nullseccer and wormholian, wormholians usually get away with even less pvp skillz tbh. People do get invaded for having an opinion. Especially if it is to declare yourself Kings of W-space after moving out. You can also get invaded and burned out for using too many "Your momma is so fat.." jokes in local. It's a legitimate fear. Talk **** to the wrong people, they might just gather some friends and burn your house down with you sleeping inside. We can't have just any insane ruffians hanging about in systems with J-tags... they need to be cultured space barbarians. So if I put a new POS up and post the J-sig will you and your momma come burn my house to the ground? Please.
Long live the kings. We Re-Rolled. Stop by public channel Rolled Out to join the fun.
Hidden Fremen liked your forum post:... |
Calmatt
Rolled Out Triumvirate.
125
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 00:34:00 -
[110] - Quote
Incindir Mauser wrote:Tears
Who are you? Oh....adhoc.
I guess you're relevent. In 2009.
Kings of wormhole space, signing off. |
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Pancake King
Bookmark Both Sides Exit Strategy..
53
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 00:35:00 -
[111] - Quote
Cosmic Scanner wrote:I actually kinda think reducing the amount of high end wormhole systems would be good change. This could make w-space less empty and more valuable. It would probably leave less room for the sheer amount of farmers there are at present. I would probably look to reduce the amount of wormholes to something like:
C4 = 300 (from 505) C5 = 200 (from 512) C6 = 50 (from 113)
It might mean you bump into the same people more often but it will likely mean less empty systems and more day to day action. Or CCP brings more players in somehow, but i don't see it happening soon.
100% this. |
Incindir Mauser
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
457
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 01:54:00 -
[112] - Quote
CivilWars wrote: So if I put a new POS up and post the J-sig will you and your momma come burn my house to the ground? Please.
Long live the kings.
Wow. That was totally taken the wrong way. Perhaps my phrasing was misinterpreted? It wasn't a personal attack, or even a comment against Blue-Fire as I rather enjoy getting my **** blown up by them. At least they fight. Hell, Lazerhawks stopped by the other night and caught us with our pants down around our ankles and relieved our site-running fleet of a handful of caps. We mourned our losses, bitched about being careless morons for half an hour, and went back to business as usual with no hard feelings for Lazerhawks or SSC. Why? They were nice about it and didn't act smug or **** up local. Jokes were exchanged and we had to admit to ourselves that it was fun losing billions worth of caps.
W-space needs more of that kind of mutual respect, no matter how big or small they are. How "relevant" or "irrelevant" they are perceived to be.
People have more fun when the atrocities are served with a chaser and a breath mint.
Corps have, and can lose their homes to being obtuse, over-confident, and downright insulting. It's life out here. Anyone that suggests that big corps should voluntarily break down into smaller entities is a little thick between the ears. It's better to attract and hold the interest of new people than to cut off your right hand because your neighbor has sprained his wrist. The fact that we have to be so hyper paranoid about theft and who we can recruit contributes greatly to the declining population in general.
Yes. People can get evicted for having opinions. If it weren't a threat it wouldn't be exciting and things would look more like the current null sov cold war. That was the point I was attempting to make.
P.S. My momma is so fat she keeps her diaphragm in a pizza box. |
Alundil
Isogen 5
670
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 02:04:00 -
[113] - Quote
Incindir Mauser wrote: P.S. My momma is so fat she keeps her diaphragm in a pizza box.
Sheesh
TMI
I'm right behind you |
blackish person
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
21
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 03:20:00 -
[114] - Quote
Cosmic Scanner wrote:I actually kinda think reducing the amount of high end wormhole systems would be good change. This could make w-space less empty and more valuable. It would probably leave less room for the sheer amount of farmers there are at present. I would probably look to reduce the amount of wormholes to something like:
C4 = 300 (from 505) C5 = 200 (from 512) C6 = 50 (from 113)
It might mean you bump into the same people more often but it will likely mean less empty systems and more day to day action. Or CCP brings more players in somehow, but i don't see it happening soon.
Iv all ways thought there were too many c5s but I don't think there are too many c6. If the c6 number got much lower then running sites in c6 would be death and that would make all the farmers just move to c5. I like having farmers in c6 because it gives us something to kill. With out something to kill the pvp groups would likely move out of c6 as well.
If you halved the amount of c5s the player density would be higher so there would be more pvp happening and also the risk in running cap escalations will go up a bit. People would have more success rolling and therefor would roll more. I don't think people would stop running sites because the rewards are pretty damn high especially if you multi box it.
Don't know about you guys but this sounds pretty good to me. |
Ilaister
Task Force Proteus Protean Concept
101
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 03:57:00 -
[115] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:nanoribbons are climbing in value. QED, wormhole space is losing population.
Frigate holes, when was the last time you went through one or interacted with one? That's right - the day of the patch, or at latest, the day before they changed the k162 description to read "small ships only". I found 6 in 3 wormholes last night and used none of them.
These = patently untrue.
Ribbon prices are growing because of a combination of factors, including farmers that have stayed farming less due to the number of open conx and T3s gaining some popularity back in PvP. We get kills through frigholes. Mostly frustration. But some kills.
The bit after that about people being cowards and smaller groups being more fun and low class WH ISK makes much more sense though. |
Kira Hhallas
Very Drunken Eve Flying Instructors Brotherhood Of Silent Space
402
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 06:58:00 -
[116] - Quote
to reduce WH Systems is not solving the problem with W-space. It is only to treat the symthoms of the Problem.
And the only one how can do is, is CCP. We can make our suggestions how to fix it.
It look like that every discussion will end in a Flame war, so people be constructive. I am not interested to **** of some people, I am interested in solutions ...... Kira Hhallas - Austrian EvE Community - ingame =+ûsterreich= -
Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare |
Kirasten
No Vacancies
86
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 08:43:00 -
[117] - Quote
Ilaister wrote:Trinkets friend wrote:nanoribbons are climbing in value. QED, wormhole space is losing population.
Frigate holes, when was the last time you went through one or interacted with one? That's right - the day of the patch, or at latest, the day before they changed the k162 description to read "small ships only". I found 6 in 3 wormholes last night and used none of them.
These = patently untrue. Ribbon prices are growing because of a combination of factors, including farmers that have stayed farming less due to the number of open conx and T3s gaining some popularity back in PvP. We get kills through frigholes. Mostly frustration. But some kills. The bit after that about people being cowards and smaller groups being more fun and low class WH ISK makes much more sense though.
I have not interacted with any frigate holes since the description change unless it attached directly to the home system. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
705
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 09:00:00 -
[118] - Quote
Ilaister wrote:[...] and T3s gaining some popularity back in PvP.
Wonder if there is a connection to the currently hilariously low build prices for T3s. Mean, they've become cost efficient over time!
(cost efficient here: 260-300mil for a t2 tengu compared to the 200-220mil for a proper cerb :o, XLASB cerb with it's 270mil prictag even looks costly next to a tengu doing more or less the same job) "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
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Kira Hhallas
Very Drunken Eve Flying Instructors Brotherhood Of Silent Space
402
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 09:04:00 -
[119] - Quote
In our C3 / 00, we had some of them. Many connections from 00 -> C3 or back; some C3 -> C2; I think since the change we had more the ten time frig. holes. And well we had also fun with the frig. Holes in our System and other.
Kira Hhallas - Austrian EvE Community - ingame =+ûsterreich= -
Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare |
Kirasten
No Vacancies
86
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 11:17:00 -
[120] - Quote
Kira Hhallas wrote:In our C3 / 00, we had some of them. Many connections from 00 -> C3 or back; some C3 -> C2; I think since the change we had more the ten time frig. holes. And well we had also fun with the frig. Holes in our System and other.
There are no frig holes from null to w-space, as it looks like you are saying. Only from w-space to null. |
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Kira Hhallas
Very Drunken Eve Flying Instructors Brotherhood Of Silent Space
402
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 11:24:00 -
[121] - Quote
Hmmm,.... *thinking*.... that's true... my fault ... :-) sometimes I am a little bit confused .... Kira Hhallas - Austrian EvE Community - ingame =+ûsterreich= -
Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare |
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