Indeed. Open Dotlan! Everything around their station is CFC land. They can't fight anyone else but CFC. Sure, they could move somewhere else, but somebody else already live there. If they move to NPC Fountain, they have to fight CFC. If they move to NPC Delve, they have to fight CFC. If they move Stain, they have to fight N3. If they move Great Wilderlands, they have to fight PL. Anywhere they move they have to fight someone competent who lives there. Their choices are:
- deciding which one of the big empires they fight
- or they can give up, crawl back to Empire and disband

With the new proposal, most land will be abandoned and open for anyone. The nearest able enemy will be 20+ jumps away. Sure, they will form an anti-CFC roam once a week or so, just for the old times sake, but they won't have conflict of interest with the CFC. The CFC will be a bad historic enemy to them, like BoB is to Goons. Old MoA members will tell stories about the glorious days of fighting CFC to new ones, but for new ones CFC will be just another bunch of players 20 jumps away.

So "you"(lets admit SMA is irrelevant in the matter) pretty much admited that you are making this game so boring on purpose :P either way, running around and having to nuke out people would still be more interesting than current stagnation.

Where are these magical tens of thousands now? Why are they not fighting right now? Or you claim that highsec miners will take the abandoned space and will form deadly small gangs?

They are stuck outside of null sov because the current mechanics make it impossible for them to be able to do anything against us.

Its funny how the only people kicking up a stink in their thread just happen to also be the grr goon mob.

This is simply because MoA does not have the organization, capability or competency to hold assets in space under current system.

Well, considering such Goon sponsored events as Burn Jita and Hulkageddon, and such Goon sponsored organizations as CODE and Miniluv, and the longstanding desire of Goons to cajole (or even force) players to leave highsec for nullsec, it's quite reasonable that those who oppose that agenda would make their voices heard, and critically analyze the proposed "solutions" for nullsec, with a specific focus on how they buff nullsec rewards, and serve as a relative nerf on highsec income, which will attract more players to nullsec.

It's not "grrr.... Goons," it's just common sense.

They are stuck outside of null sov because the current mechanics make it impossible for them to be able to do anything against us.

Its funny how the only people kicking up a stink in their thread just happen to also be the grr goon mob.

Well, considering such Goon sponsored events as Burn Jita and Hulkageddon, and such Goon sponsored organizations as CODE and Miniluv, and the longstanding desire of Goons to cajole (or even force) players to leave highsec for nullsec, it's quite reasonable that those who oppose that agenda would make their voices heard, and critically analyze the proposed "solutions" for nullsec, with a specific focus on how they buff nullsec rewards, and serve as a relative nerf on highsec income, which will attract more players to nullsec.

It's not "grrr.... Goons," it's just common sense.

What is so bad about null being attractive to come to?

The problem is that the suggested changes do nothing to fundamentally change that malady. Instead, they just serve to consolidate sov and make farming easier. It's basically bribing people to come to nullsec without making it any more exciting, and that just doesn't make sense.

They are stuck outside of null sov because the current mechanics make it impossible for them to be able to do anything against us.

Its funny how the only people kicking up a stink in their thread just happen to also be the grr goon mob.

These changes are only to deal with the need for massive galaxy spanning empires. There are other fixes needed for the other issues null faces.

70% of the CFC losses come from non-sov holders, so owning sov isn't a pre-requisite of fighting. My question is, can you point at an organization that isn't killing CFC now and with this suggestion will start killing CFC? Where are they?

Yeah, it's pretty funny. I mean this proposal is a selfless one, CFC, PL, N3 all gave up their own interests to help the little guys. Yet only the CFC, PL, N3 posters support it, and all the "little guys" hate it. We are a very ungrateful bunch and don't deserve your kindness. Maybe you should teach us a lesson and withdraw your generous suggestion.

Maybe CCP should change the sov mechanics to something like this:

- All mining towers and stations are NPC operated and indestructible.
- The system starts with no sov holder, the system is NPC null and the moon goo belongs to no one, no cyno jammer is present.
- In "NPC null" state, the sov-number is calculated as the ratio of ISK destroyed (not looted) in kills by your alliance. If your alliance destroyed 32% of ISK in the system in the last 30 days, you have 32% sov points.
- (after 30 days of data available) if your alliance is over 30% and has 10% more than the second highest you become the sov holder. You get the moon goo, you control the station and can erect a cyno jammer. The sov number resets.
- If the sov is held by an alliance, the sov number is calculated as "ISK destroyed by owners vs ISK destroyed by everyone else against the owners (not on randoms) in the system in the last 30 days".
- (after the 30 days grace period) if the sov number goes below 50%, you lose sov and NPC null state returns.

Its funny how the only people kicking up a stink in their thread just happen to also be the grr goon mob.Yeah, it's pretty funny. I mean this proposal is a selfless one, CFC, PL, N3 all gave up their own interests to help the little guys. Yet only the CFC, PL, N3 posters support it, and all the "little guys" hate it. We are a very ungrateful bunch and don't deserve your kindness. Maybe you should teach us a lesson and withdraw your generous suggestion.

Are you saying that there would be no requirement for the CFC to stay together if you get the sort of sov-system you are after?

[quote=Speedkermit Damo][quote=baltec1][quote=Veers Belvar]

The aim of this change is not to smash up the coalitions its to shrink our empire dramatically so that there is room for others to enter null.

My question is, can you point at an organization that isn't killing CFC now and with this suggestion will start killing CFC? Where are they?

Yeah, it's pretty funny. I mean this proposal is a selfless one, CFC, PL, N3 all gave up their own interests to help the little guys. Yet only the CFC, PL, N3 posters support it, and all the "little guys" hate it. We are a very ungrateful bunch and don't deserve your kindness. Maybe you should teach us a lesson and withdraw your generous suggestion.

Unlike NRDS which is essentially NBSI with a gigantic red list instead of a short blue list

Again, you're wrong and NBSI has nothing to do with the current situation

70% of the CFC losses come from non-sov holders, so owning sov isn't a pre-requisite of fighting. My question is, can you point at an organization that isn't killing CFC now and with this suggestion will start killing CFC? Where are they?

Yeah, it's pretty funny. I mean this proposal is a selfless one, CFC, PL, N3 all gave up their own interests to help the little guys. Yet only the CFC, PL, N3 posters support it, and all the "little guys" hate it. We are a very ungrateful bunch and don't deserve your kindness. Maybe you should teach us a lesson and withdraw your generous suggestion.

The only hot spots in EVE right now are in NRDS space.

NBDS

With the new proposal, most land will be abandoned and open for anyone. The nearest able enemy will be 20+ jumps away. Sure, they will form an anti-CFC roam once a week or so, just for the old times sake, but they won't have conflict of interest with the CFC. The CFC will be a bad historic enemy to them, like BoB is to Goons. Old MoA members will tell stories about the glorious days of fighting CFC to new ones, but for new ones CFC will be just another bunch of players 20 jumps away.

The NRDS system is a three point system. Blue, Red and Neutral. You continue to neglect the Neutrals.The NBSI system is a fence, nobody is neutral. Blue Donut is not a mechanic. It's a place in time that came about from NBSI game play. It has happened before. In addition, there are aspects of Provi Bloc NRDS I think could be improved upon and refined.

There are other factors to this, factors you haven't mentioned that make an NRDS sector of CFC unlikely.
- One, you don't have the credibility to run it.
- Two, you could argue if it did take off, you would see more PvE but not PvP. I'm pretty sure the the obvious is at play here though. The only hot spots in EVE right now are in NRDS space.
- History also shows the Nerf bat follows the populace and not mechanical balance factors. So introducing more people to Null is going to see the nerf bat make its way out of popular high sec.

By the nature of your solution you are in fact agreeing with me, NBSI is the problem. You don't want me, A Neutral to dock up in your stations. You want CCP to offer NPC stations I can dock up in. I can tell you based on the option to move to Sansha regions now has crossed my mind but I can't create supply lines to get there. I can't create a logistics scenario that lets me live there.

The true difference I think we have is, you seem content with Null populace and are fine with dividing up the Null players in to Blue and not blue. My goal for Null is to see more people in it and to include the true neutral. The people who don't hate you, don't like you, don't care what you do. They make up 70% of the EVE population.

That would be the war currently going on down there, not because of their NBDS policy.

That's the point of the new proposal, coupled with the fact that they could move in to NPC Deklein. And oh my, 20 jumps is too far for MOA? What a tragedy.