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Anders Chydenius Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2006.08.08 13:43:00 - [1] I hate to create a duplicate thread, but with the release of 1.0.25.4 and the upcoming 1.0.26 release, the EVEMon project has moved to a new home at battleclinic. Can one of the forum mods please update the links in the top EVEMon post, and then delete this thread if need be? The main site: http://evemon.battleclinic.com The source repository ("verify it for yourself"): http://evemon.battleclinic.com/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/browser/EVEMon/trunk Screenshots: http://evemon.battleclinic.com/screenshots.html Thanks! ------ It's time for some F@&#g soup. -- Syfe
Anders Chydenius Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2006.08.08 13:44:00 - [2] Also, be aware that the new version will not be autoupdated. 1.0.25.4 and up use a different autoupdate system. ------ It's time for some F@&#g soup. -- Syfe
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.08 13:51:00 - [3] Main site The source repository Screenshots Ship lovers click here
Scorpyn Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.08.08 14:21:00 - [4] Mr. Paranoia (ie me) is wondering why there isn't any info about this on the current/old site.
Serenity Steele Rearden Steele Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.08 14:29:00 - [5] Great Resource - nice to see it's moving to a high-bandwidth home!
Whiskey Juvenile GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.08.08 14:31:00 - [6] I'm wondering if Six Anari knows anything about this. Stealing software isn't cool.
Starblight	Posted - 2006.08.08 14:32:00 - [7] Is this intended to be a fork or just outright theft ?
Oliberto Stewart	Posted - 2006.08.08 14:32:00 - [8] Why didn't you bother to get the developer's approval? Not cool...
Jenna Malone Caldari W-hat LLC	Posted - 2006.08.08 14:34:00 - [9] If you fork open source software, use a new name. It's not nice to impose as the original product.
Alexi Kalashnikov Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.08.08 14:34:00 - [10] Edited by: Alexi Kalashnikov on 08/08/2006 14:35:40 Originally by: Oliberto Stewart Why didn't you bother to get the developer's approval? Not cool... Yes, unless Six Anari signs off on this people should not assume it is as safe (lack of keyloggers, other malicous software) as a third-party developer has taken the base code and has begun modifying it. SixAnari is doing a perfectly fine job with this software and unless he/she has specifically told you to take over, I would simply leave it be. However, which the names workign on this have come up before: I would much rather to know from Six Anari that he/she is handing the project over.
Anders Chydenius Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2006.08.08 14:41:00 - [11] I was one of the developers of evemon when six was controlling the project. No one has heard from six in a few months, and I have sent six many emails in the last several weeks, none of which has been answered. Because six is the only one with access to the old site, we cannot make any updates or release a new version. The current version has several bugs that we would like to see fixed, including one that CCP would like to see fixed, but we can't do anything about it. If six comes back, it's still his project. His name is still at the top of every list. It is not our intention to steal ANYTHING here, we're merely trying to continue the project the best way we can while six is gone, whether that absence is temporary or permanent. If you have any questions, I encourage you to continue to post here, or email me at [email protected]. ------ It's time for some F@&#g soup. -- Syfe
Anders Chydenius Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2006.08.08 14:42:00 - [12] Oh, and if you have any way to get ahold of Six, please please let me know. We would like, at the very least, his approval, but right now our assumption is that he has just fallen off the face of the earth. ------ It's time for some F@&#g soup. -- Syfe
Jenna Malone Caldari W-hat LLC	Posted - 2006.08.08 14:42:00 - [13] Edited by: Jenna Malone on 08/08/2006 14:43:51 Edited by: Jenna Malone on 08/08/2006 14:41:54 --edit: Well, apparently he did not work on it alone.
Harris	Posted - 2006.08.08 14:43:00 - [14] From the EveMon FAQ site... Quote: The EVEMon project was started by Six Anari for the Goonfleet corp, to be used as a skill manager and viewer. After quite a bit of development, Six released EVEMon as an open source project for the whole Eve community, and continued adding features to the system. After the 1.0.25.0 release, Six stopped making contributions, and since he was the only person with commit access to the source code, AndersChydenius took over administration of the project. In August 2006, Battleclinic graciously offered to host all aspects of the EVEMon project. Yes plagurism and theft are the worst things for this kind of media, but perhaps give the guy some credit. Do you think he'd be so openly brazen about a theft? Personally I'd like to think not even though I don't know him. Good luck with expanding the app. I hope it all goes well.
Anders Chydenius Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2006.08.08 14:44:00 - [15] Originally by: Jenna Malone Edited by: Jenna Malone on 08/08/2006 14:41:54 Well, I've mailed Six (--edit: as in mailed outside the game). And for that matter, I'm pretty sure he was working on it ALONE. If you look at the original, six-run repository here, you'll see my name on a lot of things. I really am trying to do what's right for the community here, and keep things moving forward. ------ It's time for some F@&#g soup. -- Syfe
Whiskey Juvenile GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.08.08 14:46:00 - [16] It's a GNU GPL license, though; I think you might have to at least change the name of the software.
Jenna Malone Caldari W-hat LLC	Posted - 2006.08.08 14:51:00 - [17] Originally by: Anders Chydenius If you look at the original, six-run repository here, you'll see my name on a lot of things. I really am trying to do what's right for the community here, and keep things moving forward. Well, then you did contribute. However without his approval, you're only allowed to treat your project as a fork, which requires a name change, since GPL doesn't mean there's no copyright, which includes the application name.
Anders Chydenius Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2006.08.08 14:54:00 - [18] Originally by: Jenna Malone Originally by: Anders Chydenius If you look at the original, six-run repository here, you'll see my name on a lot of things. I really am trying to do what's right for the community here, and keep things moving forward. Well, then you did contribute. However without his approval, you're only allowed to treat your project as a fork, which requires a name change, since GPL doesn't mean there's no copyright, which includes the application name. I wanted to avoid doing that if at all possible, since if six comes back, it's my assumption that he'll take control of the project again. I don't want there to be two different evemons. The only reason for this fork is that development of the existing project on the existing repository is, for all intents and purposes, impossible. I guess, if the copyright holder protests our use of his copyright, that would mean we've heard from him, and at that point we'll do whatever he wants with the project. ------ EVEMon
Alistair Mendehl	Posted - 2006.08.08 15:01:00 - [19] Sorry Anders, it looks like no good deed goes unpunished. If you've been keeping track of EveMon development, you know that Six went AFK about the time the interview in Eon came out. Ease up people, Anders is just trying to keep things rolling.
Whiskey Juvenile GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.08.08 15:21:00 - [20] I'm a law student; I take law stuff seriously. A name change appears to be all that would be required by the license.
Anders Chydenius Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2006.08.08 15:32:00 - [21] Originally by: Whiskey Juvenile I'm a law student; I take law stuff seriously. A name change appears to be all that would be required by the license. But by that token (and my understanding), the only person who can formally protest misuse of the copyright is the copyright holder, and we've made it clear what our reaction to such a protest will be. I'm trying to decide which would be more divisive - changing the name to "EVEThing Continued" or leaving it as we have it right now. ------ EVEMon
duckmonster GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.08.08 16:01:00 - [22] Hmm. No Im not convinced its a trademark (The name is a trademark, not a copyright afaik btw), and if that was the case, its derivative of "eve" anyway. Generally speaking the Idea of the GPL is that other folks are allows (perhaps even encouraged on some level) and that while original copyrights and trademarks are retained by the original author (or fractionally in the case of joint works and derivitave works), a perpetual (pending on compliance with the GPL) licence to use them is granted. Relax folks. Its the GPL, and forking, or 'de-orphaning' is not considered a hostile act.
Olea Avenger Gallente GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.08.08 16:09:00 - [23] I use a lot of opensource software and have contributed to some. You are supposed to do a name change. However, when and if Six comes back, their is nothing stopping you from remerging the fork back into the main. So for now you should say it is a fork and why it is a fork and name it something like X-EveMon.
Gabriel Hart	Posted - 2006.08.08 16:44:00 - [24] Anyone who submitted an implemented patch to Evemon could claim misuse on a vested interest case, not just the original creator. A name change is indeed needed.
MrCue Drones of Annihilation Alektorophobia	Posted - 2006.08.08 17:06:00 - [25] I think that you have all missed the point. Anders (and the rest of the dev team) are continuing EVEMon in the best way they can. If (and we hope when) Six returns, EVEMon will return to be under his direction at whichever URL he chooses. Until then, The source will continue to be updated by the growing team of developers and they will provide support for it at the new location. Killmail Database
MrCue Drones of Annihilation Alektorophobia	Posted - 2006.08.08 17:07:00 - [26] Originally by: Scorpyn Mr. Paranoia (ie me) is wondering why there isn't any info about this on the current/old site. There is on the forums. Nobody else but Six has access to the old website. Which means that the auto-update feature of EVEMon would have continued to be broken. Killmail Database
MrCue Drones of Annihilation Alektorophobia	Posted - 2006.08.08 17:10:00 - [27] Originally by: Oliberto Stewart Why didn't you bother to get the developer's approval? Tried, tried, and tried some more. Six has been AFK since his interview for the eve magazine. Quote: Yes, unless Six Anari signs off on this people should not assume it is as safe (lack of keyloggers, other malicous software) as a third-party developer has taken the base code and has begun modifying it. The source is open, as it was before. Feel free to read it all yourself and compile your own version. BTW, the lead developer is the same guy who was working on evemon on the old site. Quote: SixAnari is doing a perfectly fine job with this software and unless he/she has specifically told you to take over, I would simply leave it be. Six has been absent for months and all of the commits to the old site have been from anders. Who being the only person with SVN write access other than six, we can assume hes in charge until Six returns. Killmail Database
MrCue Drones of Annihilation Alektorophobia	Posted - 2006.08.08 17:12:00 - [28] Originally by: Gabriel Hart Anyone who submitted an implemented patch to Evemon could claim misuse on a vested interest case, not just the original creator. A name change is indeed needed. Most, if not all of those people have already submited patches for the next version(s) of EVEMon to the new system. However, if you manage to contact Six for a complaint, please tell him that his project is ready for him to return whenever he is ready. Killmail Database
Scorpyn Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.08.08 17:52:00 - [29] Edited by: Scorpyn on 08/08/2006 17:52:06 Originally by: MrCue Originally by: Scorpyn Mr. Paranoia (ie me) is wondering why there isn't any info about this on the current/old site. There is on the forums. Nobody else but Six has access to the old website. Which means that the auto-update feature of EVEMon would have continued to be broken. I read a bit on the forums but obviously I missed it then. I'm satisfied with the explanation given btw. I would also recommend a name change though, even if you intend to give the project back at some point.
Talori'i Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2006.08.08 18:09:00 - [30] Just change it to EVEMonX, or EVEMon Lite, or maybe even EVEMonXTREME.... And I don't think a mod should change the old thread.... just create a new one with the new name, the new features, and why the change is happening. 4 8 15 16 23 42
Parapolizei Tactical Militia	Posted - 2006.08.08 20:11:00 - [31] Thanks for continuing the project fellas :)
Spazzle GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.08.09 00:29:00 - [32] A couple of us have messaged Six on the SA forums. I'll let you know if he gets back to me. I'm certainly looking forwards to updates, so best of luck.
Rumbaar Solitary Forsaken	Posted - 2006.08.09 00:51:00 - [33] Thx Anders Chydenius for trying to do the right thing. Hopefully CCP will do something with the what the current 'six' version of EVEMon access resource and people come to see that it currently isn't being update or fix and they'll come begging for you and others to fix their precious EVEMon. There are a few bugs and errors in the current 'official' build and if these people can a contact six or even visit the EVEMon forums you'll see the whole that is trying to be plugged. At the moment EVEMon (six version) is hitting the CCP servers for more bandwidth than actually playing the game! I and others have logs of this. As someone else has said, No good deed goes un-punished. All those of Goonfleet/swarm who should have more direct access to Six contact him and all will be well. But I'm sure even goons will have trouble with that. Looking for custom banners? click above, Feedback section.
Shahadet Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.09 11:40:00 - [34] I hope this all gets strighten out with out to much trouble. I like EveMon and will keep using it even if it moves, changes its name, and get into the witness protection program.
Anders Chydenius Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2006.08.09 13:00:00 - [35] I've left messages on the goonforum for six as well, and that thread looks pretty much like this one. A lot of the same people, in fact - it's nice to see how protective the goons are of their guy, in any case :) In other news, for the 2 people that are still reading this thread, it looks like I'm going to gencon this weekend, so if you're going to check out the ccg, maybe you'll see me there, scamming the ccg reps for L33t 1nf0z. ------ EVEMon
Archangel Lucifus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.08.09 14:25:00 - [36] Keep the codebase clean and similar coding style, change the name slightly for the difference in versions, then if/when Six comes back, your codebase can be diffed and patched back into the original source tree without much hastle. Thanks for taking over the work while they're AFK
Awox Awox Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:28:00 - [37] Originally by: Talori'i Just change it to EVEMonX, or EVEMon Lite, or maybe even EVEMonXTREME.... And I don't think a mod should change the old thread.... just create a new one with the new name, the new features, and why the change is happening. You lot really amuse me. He's doing what is best for the project. Until Six posts something to the original site what is the big deal? Obviously his story checks out. But please don't be calling it anything stupid just because these whiners tell you to, and if you do decide to, please don't call it anything stupid! "EVEmonEXTREME" sounds stupid. Makes me want to podkill 10,000 noobs. - nerf 0.5+
Vanlade Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:46:00 - [38] Good work with EvEMoon. It is great to have such tools available. Much appreciated. - Vanlade
Brad Stone Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.09 18:25:00 - [39] Originally by: Gabriel Hart Anyone who submitted an implemented patch to Evemon could claim misuse on a vested interest case, not just the original creator. A name change is indeed needed. I beleive that everyone who has submitted a patch to Evemon is still working actively on it. The only missing person is Six himself, and Anders has bent over backwards to contact him
Kavol Valarius Amarr Dark Order Enterprises Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.09 18:39:00 - [40] Regardless of the topic, I do hope Six is alright. He did a previous vanishing act long before he joined EVE, we were all pretty worried about him then too.
Waragha Art of War	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:17:00 - [41] Anyways, this needs to be stickified. I'd say change the name just to adhere with the GPL (opensource whoring ftw), but who cares really. Originally by: Trepkos ... The only difference between GS and NPC's are that GS respawn quicker.
Olea Avenger Gallente GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:33:00 - [42] Originally by: Awox Originally by: Talori'i Just change it to EVEMonX, or EVEMon Lite, or maybe even EVEMonXTREME.... And I don't think a mod should change the old thread.... just create a new one with the new name, the new features, and why the change is happening. You lot really amuse me. He's doing what is best for the project. Until Six posts something to the original site what is the big deal? Obviously his story checks out. But please don't be calling it anything stupid just because these whiners tell you to, and if you do decide to, please don't call it anything stupid! "EVEmonEXTREME" sounds stupid. Makes me want to podkill 10,000 noobs. I don't have any problems with them working on it. It is what open source is all about. We are mearly asking them to follow the rules of the GPL which this was released under. It was not released under the BSD or similar liscense. This can only be considered a fork of the project, as the original maintainer is unable to be contacted. As part of a fork, you must change the name to reflect that it is a fork. That is all we are asking. This goes for all OpenSource. At a later date, if Six replies and states he wants to remerge the project and this group aggrees they can remerge. This has actually occured several times in Open Source software developed under the GPL.
Rumbaar Solitary Forsaken	Posted - 2006.08.09 23:58:00 - [43] I think that if it does fork officially it will get to a point quite quickly that wont allow for reintegration back into the 1.0.24 base. But they might just have to be the way it goes for it to continue. Looking for custom banners? click above, Feedback section.
Anders Chydenius Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2006.08.10 00:09:00 - [44] Originally by: Rumbaar I think that if it does fork officially it will get to a point quite quickly that wont allow for reintegration back into the 1.0.24 base. But they might just have to be the way it goes for it to continue. Another reason why I don't see it as a real fork. As a fairly long time contributor to the project, and the only person besides Six with control of the evercrest-based repository, I see this as a continuation. ------ EVEMon
Rumbaar Solitary Forsaken	Posted - 2006.08.10 04:33:00 - [45] Yeah I'm not sure if I was clear but that post was meant to confirm that I don't think a fork is a good idea. :) Looking for custom banners? click above, Feedback section.
Awox Awox Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.10 05:44:00 - [46] Edited by: Awox on 10/08/2006 05:43:48 Originally by: Olea Avenger Originally by: Awox Originally by: Talori'i Just change it to EVEMonX, or EVEMon Lite, or maybe even EVEMonXTREME.... And I don't think a mod should change the old thread.... just create a new one with the new name, the new features, and why the change is happening. You lot really amuse me. He's doing what is best for the project. Until Six posts something to the original site what is the big deal? Obviously his story checks out. But please don't be calling it anything stupid just because these whiners tell you to, and if you do decide to, please don't call it anything stupid! "EVEmonEXTREME" sounds stupid. Makes me want to podkill 10,000 noobs. I don't have any problems with them working on it. It is what open source is all about. We are mearly asking them to follow the rules of the GPL which this was released under. It was not released under the BSD or similar liscense. This can only be considered a fork of the project, as the original maintainer is unable to be contacted. As part of a fork, you must change the name to reflect that it is a fork. That is all we are asking. This goes for all OpenSource. At a later date, if Six replies and states he wants to remerge the project and this group aggrees they can remerge. This has actually occured several times in Open Source software developed under the GPL. As you are offering legal advice may I see your identification which proves you are legally qualified to offer such advice? Anyways. It's not really an issue if it is the same project, it's not like Anders has stabbed Six in the back and run off with the source code and all the Exotic Dancers.. really.. Let it go man. - nerf 0.5+
DanFraser OCForums	Posted - 2006.08.10 15:16:00 - [47] Just because Bill Gates is basically leaving M$, doesn't mean we'll be using MiniHard Panorama when it gets released... (that's Microsoft Vista for the people trying to work it out)
Azrael Bierce Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.10 15:31:00 - [48] Originally by: Olea Avenger I don't have any problems with them working on it. It is what open source is all about. We are mearly asking them to follow the rules of the GPL which this was released under. It was not released under the BSD or similar liscense. This can only be considered a fork of the project, as the original maintainer is unable to be contacted. As part of a fork, you must change the name to reflect that it is a fork. That is all we are asking. This goes for all OpenSource. At a later date, if Six replies and states he wants to remerge the project and this group aggrees they can remerge. This has actually occured several times in Open Source software developed under the GPL. The GPL Where, exactly, in here does it say you need to change the name of the program? Section 2, which covers derivative copies, only states that you need to state prominently in the source that you've made changes, and that you must redistribute said changes under the GPL. Just changing the help->about to say "evemon, written by Six Anari, work continued by Anders", keep the GPL, and you're done.
Deja Thoris Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.10 18:05:00 - [49] Originally by: Vanlade Good work with EvEMon. It is great to have such tools available. Much appreciated. ^^

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2006.08.11 00:06:00 - [50] Altho is this thread about being a copyright issue or weather we can or cannot trust the new source from being spyware/keylogger free... at least to me the later is more important as the poster seem to have been involved in the making of it before the move. After that has been verified, the copyright flames may continue imo EVE-Files \| EVE-Search \| Monitor this Thread

Shoele Lialos	Posted - 2006.08.11 02:37:00 - [51] I ran that new installer, and it broke my EVEMon. So I reinstalled the old one and it works again. Of course it still thinks TSM IV is needed for the Shield Resist skills. What's the word on why that installer is failing?
Tembrous	Posted - 2006.08.11 03:43:00 - [52] Originally by: Shoele Lialos I ran that new installer, and it broke my EVEMon. So I reinstalled the old one and it works again. Of course it still thinks TSM IV is needed for the Shield Resist skills. What's the word on why that installer is failing? With so little information, I have no idea.
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2006.08.11 08:12:00 - [53] On forking: There is no fork. Forking means, that an additional version of an original one is developed. Anders is continuing the original one, it just happened that the originator of the application has left without a proper handing over of business. The team is the same, it only got smaller. There are no two versions of the same software, no two developers or teams working on the same base software, hence no forking. I by the way cannot install EveMon on my laptop, since MS .Net 2.0 does not install itself. I download .Net, start the exe, everything is unpacked and put into a folder in the temp folder, and that's it. The install.exe process can be seen running on the task manager, but nothing happens. Manually starting the install.exe from the temp folder just starts a second process, but still nothing happens. Any help with that would be appreciated... Juwi Kotch
MrCue Drones of Annihilation Alektorophobia	Posted - 2006.08.11 11:48:00 - [54] Originally by: Chribba Altho is this thread about being a copyright issue or weather we can or cannot trust the new source from being spyware/keylogger free... at least to me the later is more important as the poster seem to have been involved in the making of it before the move. After that has been verified, the copyright flames may continue imo The source remains open and avaliable for download and self-compilation. Killmail Database
Lachek	Posted - 2006.08.21 20:12:00 - [55] Edited by: Lachek on 21/08/2006 20:13:50 #1: There is no need for a namechange. The GPL doesn't require it, and neither does the BSD license and other Open Source licenses folks on this board claim to know so much about. It is common practice for Open Source forks to namechange, even if it's just to add a letter (for example X to indicate its operability with the X Windowing System or Mac OS X, K for KDE, G for Gnome etc), but it is mostly for pragmatic rather than legal or idealistic reasons. Nobody wants their "new-and-improved" fork confused with the parent product, and the parent product doesn't want to get confused with the young upstart that doesn't compile right. #2: This is not a fork, it is a continuation of the EveMon project, by some of the original contributors no less. Even if a namechange was necessary (see #1) it wouldn't apply, since it's not a fork. Something is only "forked" if the parent product is still releasing (thus, the "fork" of side-by-side products), which the old EveMon is clearly not. #3: Nowhere in the source does it mention (c) Six Anari from what I can tell. The SVN repo lists a file called 'gpl.txt' which contains just your generic GPL without any particular copyright claim. This means that Six Anari does not have any further claim to the copyright of EveMon than any of the other contributors do. If one of them wants to pick up development in Six Anari's absence, more power to them. #4: As far as spyware/keyloggers go, as mentioned, the source is right there - have a look for yourself, or pay a coder to certify and compile it for you. If you're paranoid, don't run the binary, always compile from publically available source. And as far as that is concerned, why trust Anders any less than Six? The software is developed, compiled and distributed in exactly the same way as before. If you didn't take issue then, why start now? #5: Thank you Anders. Please don't be discouraged by those who would distrust you - they come from the land of non-Free software, where everyone is trying to make a buck on the back of somebody else, and judge everyone accordingly.
Halafian Eve University	Posted - 2006.08.21 20:28:00 - [56] Totally agree. Some thread necromancy here, but the grumblings from Goonie law students here are completely misdirected. Couldn't believe all the nonsensical guff about malicious code, theft, etc. Thank you Anders and everyone else now contributing to the project. Sorry you had to deal with ****ers attacking your character, but like someone said, no good deed goes unpunished.
Skunkaben	Posted - 2006.08.24 18:54:00 - [57] i have +3 implants in and evemon doesnt show them and the training times are not updated. any1 else having this problem? ta
Anti Protagonist Gallente Archron Dusyfe Industries	Posted - 2006.08.24 21:31:00 - [58] Originally by: Skunkaben i have +3 implants in and evemon doesnt show them and the training times are not updated. any1 else having this problem? ta That's a problem with the XML that EVEMon gets from EVE, it happens to most people. You'll need to enter them manually.

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