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QotD: How do you measure profitability of highsec ganking?

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Lady Areola Fappington 2273	Posted - 2014.09.30 23:51:00 - [31] - Quote Charax Bouclier wrote: Income - Cost = Profitability I think the "cost" and "income" is open to interpretation. I'll offer up a few concepts and you're free to agree or disagree with them, and replace them with your own. Cost 1. The value of your ship that gets CONCORDed 2. Opportunity Cost of doing alternate ISK-making activities Income 1. What you can salvage from the wreck 2. Intrinsic pleasure of augmenting your kill statistics 3. Hearty chuckles from rage mails/whispers/local 4. EVE-O forum threads/posts about you and your corp's disreputable behavior Certainly, some variables will be valued differently by each person. How would you algebraically weight the above variables (including variables that you come up with, if applicable) to compute whether a highsec gank was truly profitable? Most of my pure ISK income is kind of "indirect" when it comes to ganking. What I like to do, is pick a region a little ways out from a trade hub. Stock the market with mining gear and such, then unleash my ganking alt. Miners tend to be real creatures of habit, so they'll buy brand new fittings and such for a 10-15% markup, rather than traveling all the way back and forth from a trade hub. It can be hit or miss...There's been nights where I've netted 600-700mil ISK, and nights where I've lost a comparable amount. Overall, I stay far enough in the black to be comfortable. Tears and rage, of course, are just the topping on the cake. I've managed to get a few epic screeds, even with my "Never interact with targets outside of blowing them up" rule. It isn't really hard, but I think there are customers that you can lose in a good way and there's customers that you can lose in a bad way. If people come in and fundamentally don't like EVE Online, then I think that might be a good way of losing customers. . -á--CCP Soundwave
Charax Bouclier Silvershield Universal 125	Posted - 2014.10.01 00:06:00 - [32] - Quote I am actually disappointed with the answers so far. I was hoping someone would make an attempt at an algebraic forumula that would include such variables as tears, quantity and quality of the victim rage mixed in with some irrelevant ISK considerations. But I am glad that Veers posted an unpopular opinion to spark animosity.
Charax Bouclier Silvershield Universal 125	Posted - 2014.10.01 00:11:00 - [33] - Quote WASPY69 wrote: "whispers"?!? What the **** is this? WoW? Get out... Oh, and sorry about that. Still trying to purge my WoW vernacular after being subjected to it for nine years. Haters, back off!
Vyl Vit 823	Posted - 2014.10.01 02:05:00 - [34] - Quote Profitable? Compared to what? If you have to "pick the right target," which means you have to "wait around a lot," how is that profitable in terms of ISK per hour? If you're after tears, just any target will do. If you don't get the target's you'll certainly get your own, unless you're not even sensitive to yourself (which wouldn't surprise me.) Even with the above said, there is still too much profit in ganking. Ganking should be costly. They should pay dearly for those tears, especially if it's that important to them. They'd pay any price to do it. Make them pay an actual cost, guess what...they'll find something else to do. CCP is doing the ganking. Not you. Anyone with any sense has already left town.
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 5570	Posted - 2014.10.01 02:14:00 - [35] - Quote I measure the profitability of ganking by comparing how much fun it would be to how much fun what I'm doing now is. If it's more fun, and there's a readily available target and readily available ganking equipment, then lolz will be had. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 5570	Posted - 2014.10.01 02:18:00 - [36] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: RubyPorto wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Or you could actually try to help other people enjoy the game instead of looking for tears...imagine that. And nobody's judging* you if you'd like to do that. We don't say you're a bad person for enjoying your legitimate in-game activities, why are you so keen to say others are bad people for enjoying their legitimate in-game activities? Aren't you the one always calling for civility? At least not on moral grounds. Except that for many gankers the sole reason they gank is "tears." There is no in-game benefit, they know the ships are empty. It's done specifically to elicit as much anger and upset as possible, and then used to mock and humiliate the victim. It is the precise opposite of civility, and not really an "in-game" activity at all. Rather it is using Eve to attempt to inflict emotional harm on people, and the more vulnerable/unbalanced/impaired they are - the better. That's the difference between ganking for a legitimate purpose - be it isk, territory, killboard padding, or what not, which I am fine with, and ganking to intentionally inflict emotional distress, which I find abhorrent. Whether you become 'emotionally distressed' or not has nothing to do with the pleasure and lolz I take in removing something from your possession that you were not entitled to, by virtue of your inability to defend it. Additionally, what you find abhorrent is irrelevant to what is and is not actually abhorrent. Your personal subjective application of morals to pixels is about as mundane as a bricklayer's lunch hour. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104*
Kaely Tanniss Aurora Novae Aetatis 47	Posted - 2014.10.01 02:26:00 - [37] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: RubyPorto wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Or you could actually try to help other people enjoy the game instead of looking for tears...imagine that. And nobody's judging* you if you'd like to do that. We don't say you're a bad person for enjoying your legitimate in-game activities, why are you so keen to say others are bad people for enjoying their legitimate in-game activities? Aren't you the one always calling for civility? *At least not on moral grounds. Except that for many gankers the sole reason they gank is "tears." There is no in-game benefit, they know the ships are empty. It's done specifically to elicit as much anger and upset as possible, and then used to mock and humiliate the victim. It is the precise opposite of civility, and not really an "in-game" activity at all. Rather it is using Eve to attempt to inflict emotional harm on people, and the more vulnerable/unbalanced/impaired they are - the better. That's the difference between ganking for a legitimate purpose - be it isk, territory, killboard padding, or what not, which I am fine with, and ganking to intentionally inflict emotional distress, which I find abhorrent. Huh? You are grossly misinformed. It is absolutely a valid and purposeful game mechanic. You don't have to "understand" why gankers gank..just know they do and take the proper precautions if it's that much of a threat to you. If you know the wolves are out in packs, why would you walk in the forrest with raw meat in your pockets. It's the circle of life. You're not meant to understand it, you're menat to adapt to it. If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
La Nariz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2661	Posted - 2014.10.01 02:35:00 - [38] - Quote Charax Bouclier wrote: Income - Cost = Profitability I think the "cost" and "income" is open to interpretation. I'll offer up a few concepts and you're free to agree or disagree with them, and replace them with your own. Cost 1. The value of your ship that gets CONCORDed 2. Opportunity Cost of doing alternate ISK-making activities Income 1. What you can salvage from the wreck 2. Intrinsic pleasure of augmenting your kill statistics 3. Hearty chuckles from rage mails/whispers/local 4. EVE-O forum threads/posts about you and your corp's disreputable behavior Certainly, some variables will be valued differently by each person. How would you algebraically weight the above variables (including variables that you come up with, if applicable) to compute whether a highsec gank was truly profitable? That's not right, you should ask an actuary about it. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 111	Posted - 2014.10.01 02:52:00 - [39] - Quote And again folks....the ganking isn't the problem. It's the subsequent baiting...the goading in local, the attempt to get people on TS and rile them up...and then to capture an emotional breakdown and get twisted amusement from it. Gank all you want, just stop looking for "tears." Focus on the game, and accomplish things in it...don't use it as a mechanism to inflict emotional distress.
Buck Futz New Order Logistics CODE. 231	Posted - 2014.10.01 03:06:00 - [40] - Quote Here is Buck Futz's gank rating scale: Did their mining barge/Exhumer pop? Awesome! Did I pop their pod and hit implants? Even better! Did I pop them previously? Bonus! Did I collect my own bounty? Bonus! Was I able to move all my T2 weapons & mods into the Orca's fleet bay before getting Concorded? Bonus! Did I scoop their wreck, get good drops? Bonus! Did they send hate mail, call me a ****** (ie. black-skinned) in local chat, or petition me? Boner! Did they quit EVE forever and stop sending $$$ to CCP? Priceless. More pink slip announcements for DEVs/GMs is the long-term goal...until Ero1, Fighter Jets, D400, DJ Entropy, Bob Starseeker and the rest are unbanned, a public apology from CCP Falcon is rendered and SP refunded.

RubyPorto RubysRhymes 5619	Posted - 2014.10.01 03:41:00 - [41] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: It's the subsequent baiting...the goading in local, the attempt to get people on TS and rile them up...and then to capture an emotional breakdown and get twisted amusement from it. Gank all you want, just stop looking for "tears." Focus on the game, and accomplish things in it...don't use it as a mechanism to inflict emotional distress. All of which largely happens in your head. Because what you describe is harassment and a good way to get banned, so gankers don't do it. The people who are going to explode tend to do so immediately and without prompting once they've had their baubles taken away (much like a toddler with a favorite toy). I was the recipient of a lengthy harassment campaign (across several of the harassers alts) because someone didn't like my forum posting. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Buck Futz New Order Logistics CODE. 232	Posted - 2014.10.01 03:45:00 - [42] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: It's the subsequent baiting...the goading in local, the attempt to get people on TS and rile them up...and then to capture an emotional breakdown and get twisted amusement from it. Gank all you want, just stop looking for "tears." Focus on the game, and accomplish things in it...don't use it as a mechanism to inflict emotional distress. All of which largely happens in your head. The people who are going to explode will do so immediately and without prompting once they've had their baubles taken away (much like a toddler with a favorite toy). I was the recipient of a lengthy harassment campaign (across several of the harassers alts) because someone didn't like my forum posting. The important question being, were they SEX harassers? And did they pour some sugar on you (in the name of love)?
RubyPorto RubysRhymes 5619	Posted - 2014.10.01 03:49:00 - [43] - Quote Buck Futz wrote: The important question being, were they SEX harassers? And did they pour some sugar on you (in the name of love)? It may or may not have been almost this classy. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 5572	Posted - 2014.10.01 03:52:00 - [44] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: And again folks....the ganking isn't the problem. It's the subsequent baiting...the goading in local, the attempt to get people on TS and rile them up...and then to capture an emotional breakdown and get twisted amusement from it. Gank all you want, just stop looking for "tears." Focus on the game, and accomplish things in it...don't use it as a mechanism to inflict emotional distress. While I am enjoying the persistence of your ignorance, which is made clear by the fact that this is what you think is going on, I challenge you to see things another way. CCP tears best tears. Except that there weren't any tears here.... so if you can figure out why someone would do this with no intent to cause emotional distress, I will personally give you a gold star. I'll even go you one better, I'll let you join my corp just long enough to personally give you a medal called the Gold Star of Veers Belvar - awarded for becoming slightly less ignorant. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Glathull Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 771	Posted - 2014.10.01 03:58:00 - [45] - Quote Abrazzar wrote: As an industrialist the equation is easy: [Profitability of ganking me] << [Profitability of ganking someone else] Reminds me of a joke I can never quite get right when I'm telling it to someone without the internet in front of me. two guys are hiking thru the woods when they come across a blood thirsty bear. The first guy starts taking off his boots and putting on running shoes. The second guy says " hey, what are you doing, you can't outrun that bear!" and the first guy replies " I don't have to outrun the bear, I only have to outrun you" I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Charax Bouclier Silvershield Universal 126	Posted - 2014.10.01 11:28:00 - [46] - Quote Glathull wrote: Abrazzar wrote: As an industrialist the equation is easy: [Profitability of ganking me] << [Profitability of ganking someone else] Reminds me of a joke I can never quite get right when I'm telling it to someone without the internet in front of me. two guys are hiking thru the woods when they come across a blood thirsty bear. The first guy starts taking off his boots and putting on running shoes. The second guy says " hey, what are you doing, you can't outrun that bear!" and the first guy replies " I don't have to outrun the bear, I only have to outrun you" Now that reminds me of a scene from the Walking Dead.
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 5582	Posted - 2014.10.01 11:31:00 - [47] - Quote Never been a fan of the Walking Dead. I do enjoy Breaking Bad though, that's a Barium, Neodymium, Tungsten, Silver, Oxygen, Nitrogen and Sulfur that I can jump on. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Charax Bouclier Silvershield Universal 126	Posted - 2014.10.01 11:37:00 - [48] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Never been a fan of the Walking Dead. I do enjoy Breaking Bad though, that's a Barium, Neodymium, Tungsten, Silver, Oxygen, Nitrogen and Sulfur that I can jump on. I have yet to watch Breaking Bad, but it is on my Netflix hitlist.
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 5582	Posted - 2014.10.01 11:40:00 - [49] - Quote Charax Bouclier wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Never been a fan of the Walking Dead. I do enjoy Breaking Bad though, that's a Barium, Neodymium, Tungsten, Silver, Oxygen, Nitrogen and Sulfur that I can jump on. I have yet to watch Breaking Bad, but it is on my Netflix hitlist. This is for you so that you can get the joke. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Solecist Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 10237	Posted - 2014.10.01 11:44:00 - [50] - Quote Glathull wrote: Abrazzar wrote: As an industrialist the equation is easy: [Profitability of ganking me] << [Profitability of ganking someone else] Reminds me of a joke I can never quite get right when I'm telling it to someone without the internet in front of me. two guys are hiking thru the woods when they come across a blood thirsty bear. The first guy starts taking off his boots and putting on running shoes. The second guy says " hey, what are you doing, you can't outrun that bear!" and the first guy replies " I don't have to outrun the bear, I only have to outrun you" lol I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, you sissies. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread

Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 5584	Posted - 2014.10.01 11:48:00 - [51] - Quote I have a joke too. So this bloke comes into a bar.... No, wait, it was a horse. So this bloke comes into a horse... GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Creamdream Unlimited Potential 6	Posted - 2014.10.01 11:48:00 - [52] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Charax Bouclier wrote: Income - Cost = Profitability Mr Epeen You know you have a SIG for that... Trying to propfile yourself like that on every post LOL it is just annoying m8.
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 5584	Posted - 2014.10.01 11:55:00 - [53] - Quote Creamdream wrote: Mr Epeen wrote: Charax Bouclier wrote: Income - Cost = Profitability Mr Epeen You know you have a SIG for that... Trying to propfile yourself like that on every post LOL it is just annoying m8. Somehow, I think you being annoyed is the least of his worries, if not his intention. GG GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
La Rynx School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 66	Posted - 2014.10.01 13:57:00 - [54] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: It's the subsequent baiting...the goading in local, the attempt to get people on TS and rile them up...and then to capture an emotional breakdown and get twisted amusement from it. Gank all you want, just stop looking for "tears." Focus on the game, and accomplish things in it...don't use it as a mechanism to inflict emotional distress. ...Because what you describe is harassment and a good way to get banned, so gankers don't do it... What he describes is, what a lot of code-guys do. loyalanon is one of them and some more, proven by their own page the mb.com. So "gankers don't do it" feels very wrong for me. Do you differ codies from regular gankers? Or should the pretense of "roleplaying" excuse such behavior? In my oppinion it does not excuse this behaviour, in my oppionion it shows a lack of respect for the other players. To those guys i would recommend to play "the Sims 4" and then come back to play EvE. Forum Main
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 5612	Posted - 2014.10.01 14:24:00 - [55] - Quote La Rynx wrote: RubyPorto wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: It's the subsequent baiting...the goading in local, the attempt to get people on TS and rile them up...and then to capture an emotional breakdown and get twisted amusement from it. Gank all you want, just stop looking for "tears." Focus on the game, and accomplish things in it...don't use it as a mechanism to inflict emotional distress. ...Because what you describe is harassment and a good way to get banned, so gankers don't do it... What he describes is, what a lot of code-guys do. loyalanon is one of them and some more, proven by their own page the mb.com. So "gankers don't do it" feels very wrong for me. Do you differ codies from regular gankers? Or should the pretense of "roleplaying" excuse such behavior? In my oppinion it does not excuse this behaviour, in my oppionion it shows a lack of respect for the other players. To those guys i would recommend to play "the Sims 4" and then come back to play EvE. You remind me of a girl I used to date a long time ago. Once, she asked me to spell orange, so I said, "O-R-A-N-G-E". And she looks at me with a scowl and says, "No, I mean the colour, not the fruit." GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
RubyPorto RubysRhymes 5626	Posted - 2014.10.01 14:32:00 - [56] - Quote La Rynx wrote: What he describes is, what a lot of code-guys do. loyalanon is one of them and some more, proven by their own page the mb.com. So "gankers don't do it" feels very wrong for me. Do you differ codies from regular gankers? Or should the pretense of "roleplaying" excuse such behavior? In my oppinion it does not excuse this behaviour, in my oppionion it shows a lack of respect for the other players. To those guys i would recommend to play "the Sims 4" and then come back to play EvE. If you have evidence that Code. members are crossing the line from roleplaying (running an extortion racket is perfectly legitimate gameplay in EVE, and you're free to dress it up however you like, subject to other parts of the TOS) to harassment, you should report those Code. members (or anyone else) to CCP. "Next time follow the Code as described at minerbumping.com" are the furtherance of the extortion racket. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Crumplecorn Eve Cluster Explorations 1507	Posted - 2014.10.01 14:33:00 - [57] - Quote La Rynx wrote: What he describes is, what a lot of code-guys do. loyalanon is one of them and some more, proven by their own page the mb.com. So "gankers don't do it" feels very wrong for me. [specific citation needed] Witty Image - Stream Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Charax Bouclier Silvershield Universal 128	Posted - 2014.10.01 15:10:00 - [58] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: RubyPorto wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Or you could actually try to help other people enjoy the game instead of looking for tears...imagine that. And nobody's judging* you if you'd like to do that. We don't say you're a bad person for enjoying your legitimate in-game activities, why are you so keen to say others are bad people for enjoying their legitimate in-game activities? Aren't you the one always calling for civility? *At least not on moral grounds. Except that for many gankers the sole reason they gank is "tears." There is no in-game benefit, they know the ships are empty. It's done specifically to elicit as much anger and upset as possible, and then used to mock and humiliate the victim. It is the precise opposite of civility, and not really an "in-game" activity at all. Rather it is using Eve to attempt to inflict emotional harm on people, and the more vulnerable/unbalanced/impaired they are - the better. That's the difference between ganking for a legitimate purpose - be it isk, territory, killboard padding, or what not, which I am fine with, and ganking to intentionally inflict emotional distress, which I find abhorrent. Veers, I think that is an interesting post and I hope ISD folks allow this thread to continue for a bit as I would like some clarification. Say someone ganks others without regard to a "legitimate purpose" and doesn't taunt the victim and the victim gets upset. Do you consider that harrassment? Same question, but let's say the ganker enjoys seeing his victims lose their ships and is amused when theyy complain about being ganked but doesn't provoke more tears by word of mouth and simply blows stuff up. Is that harrassment? I am curious if the intent of the ganker figures prominently in your assessment or is it simply observable actions?
La Rynx School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 70	Posted - 2014.10.01 15:13:00 - [59] - Quote Thank you, i decide what i will petition. In Sokhars case i did before Ripard postet on his blog. However. RubyPorto wrote: Statements like "Next time follow the Code as described at minerbumping.com" are the furtherance of the extortion racket, and probably not harassment (wording dependent, of course). And i am not talking about that. I am talking about 2 hour session, easy to follow since pictures of the convos where posted. There is more, but i do not report and do not care minor cases. Another question: postal secrecy, does it exist in eve? Forum Main
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8391	Posted - 2014.10.01 15:17:00 - [60] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Or you could actually try to help other people enjoy the game instead of looking for tears...imagine that. Help other people enjoy the game? You must be loads of fun at a soccer match when you kick the ball into your own goal just to be nice because the other team has no points.



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