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Eve @ No 30 in the PCG top 100 games ever

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Brutor Shaun Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.09 14:26:00 - [1] The UK edition of PC Gamer has released their top 100 gamers ever, and Eve got a whole paragraph and came in at number 30. World of Warcraft? A whole page and placed number 5 Some things are just wrong. The PCG top 100 is one of them.
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.09 14:31:00 - [2] Millions of people sitting in front of a computer grinding for levels can't be wrong. ----------
coldplasma	Posted - 2006.08.09 14:32:00 - [3] Edited by: coldplasma on 09/08/2006 14:32:44 To be honest, the only reason WoW is always voted ahead of EVE is because of it's huge advertising thrust resulting in huge popularity. I've played WoW and don't really find it very interesting. I hope CCP plans on making a few publicity campaigns once the new version of Trinity comes out. ____________________________ See you in 0.0 kids...
Aodha Khan Minmatar Blood Inquisition	Posted - 2006.08.09 14:34:00 - [4] Originally by: Brutor Shaun World of Warcraft? A whole page and placed number 5 Unbelievable. There is NOTHING that makes WoW a top 5 MMORPG never mind a top 5 game. So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
Spartan239 Caldari Regeneration Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.09 14:34:00 - [5] PCG did give wow 94% and only gave EVE 90% so yes something is wrong, as is that fact that it apears that most of the pcg office play wow and not many play eve anymore
Minsc Gallente Phoenix Order	Posted - 2006.08.09 14:36:00 - [6] Edited by: Minsc on 09/08/2006 14:36:49 TBH the fact that EVE is actually ranked in the top 100 games of all time in PCG is a high praise in and of itself, especially at number 30. Remember this isn't a list of JUST MMO's, it's all games from the start till now. There are a lot of games that could be considered AAA titles over the years and even still EVE ranks 30. For an independantly developed MMO that has had almost no real advertising done that is a monstrous achievement. Originally by: Sharkbait please for the love of god read the dam stickies
Commoner Caldari The Foundation of Free Traders The Core Collective	Posted - 2006.08.09 14:37:00 - [7] Originally by: coldplasma Edited by: coldplasma on 09/08/2006 14:32:44 To be honest, the only reason WoW is always voted ahead of EVE is because of it's huge advertising thrust resulting in huge popularity. I've played WoW and don't really find it very interesting. I hope CCP plans on making a few publicity campaigns once the new version of Trinity comes out. I don't get this one, in all fairness WoW is an extremely smooth game, both in terms of relability and performance, and it's virtually bug free. WoW is like popmusic, smooth and streamlined and for the masses, EvE is more like rockmusic or soul, and has a much more narrow userbase.
coldplasma	Posted - 2006.08.09 14:39:00 - [8] Edited by: coldplasma on 09/08/2006 14:39:03 WoW officially has a much lower average age in the userbase than EVE does. I can't remember the actual figures, but I guess chasing after Voldemorte with fairy wands and magic swords ends up the more desirable choice of MMO ____________________________ See you in 0.0 kids...
Tao Han Caldari Crucial Electronics	Posted - 2006.08.09 14:46:00 - [9] Both me an my brother used to play WoW alot but I cant help but feeling that it is infested by 1337-kids and immature 12 year olds. I really loved the game (yes!) but I cant stand its community and neither can my brother. I choose to stay in EvE and ditch my WoW account and my brother is hoping for Age of Conan to not get the same community.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.09 14:51:00 - [10] Originally by: Aodha Khan Originally by: Brutor Shaun World of Warcraft? A whole page and placed number 5 Unbelievable. There is NOTHING that makes WoW a top 5 MMORPG never mind a top 5 game. World of Warcraft is popular for the same reason N'Sync and the Backstreet Boys went platinum. --Proud member of the [23]-- -WTS Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II
Novarei The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.09 14:51:00 - [11] So what did they rate the games on?
Aodha Khan Minmatar Blood Inquisition	Posted - 2006.08.09 14:54:00 - [12] Originally by: Commoner I don't get this one, in all fairness WoW is an extremely smooth game, both in terms of relability and performance, and it's virtually bug free. Still, a basic, limited MMORPG thats 'reliable' and 'bug free' shouldn't justify it getting to no.5 on the best games of all time. So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
Lei'ella Neirenn	Posted - 2006.08.09 14:56:00 - [13] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Aodha Khan Originally by: Brutor Shaun World of Warcraft? A whole page and placed number 5 Unbelievable. There is NOTHING that makes WoW a top 5 MMORPG never mind a top 5 game. World of Warcraft is popular for the same reason N'Sync and the Backstreet Boys went platinum. mmm Backstreet Boys anyway ihave to agree taht wow is realy popular game, much more popular then eve, well cos they have like 5 mills kids from 11 to 13 years old playing that game yeah i am teh banned happy now ?
Boonaki Caldari Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:02:00 - [14] What was number 1? Fear the Ibis of doom!
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Boonaki What was number 1? The game made by the company that gave them the most money. --Proud member of the [23]-- -WTS Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II
Aodha Khan Minmatar Blood Inquisition	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:06:00 - [16] Edited by: Aodha Khan on 09/08/2006 15:06:05 It's got to be Doom or Championship Manager !!? So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:09:00 - [17] #1 was Oblivion. At least Eve went up a few places and WoW dropped a few...
Clytamnestra Jazz Associates R i s e	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:11:00 - [18] Am I the only one a little bit tired of the animosity shown World of Warcraft, and all the other fantasy first-person mmorpgs? I mean, they're two completely different games. I played WoW for a long time. Bored of it now. Felt like I was paying a monthly fee to spend time woth other peoples' kids. But arguing whether WoW is better than EVE is like arguing whether chess is better than poker. Oh, and I don't put much past any top-100 games ever list. It's like when MTV ran top-100 songs ever, and none of them were older than twenty years. Missed The Beatles by a smidge, eh? --
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:15:00 - [19] Silly fanboys WOW is a VERY different type of game to EVE. In many ways WOW is alot more fun than EVE, it provides instant and constant action/gratification with little/no down time (in play terms) is much easier to get into, has little/no learning curve...in short a nice fast paced (usually) action packed mindless game. It does however have IMO a short shelf life and the need to do stupid instance grinding at high levels which spoils all that 'is' good about WOW. Compared to many MMOs however, there really is little 'grind' in WOW, even EVE could be argued to require more 'grind' than WOW EVE, has legs, it has staying power, it is in game design a VERY different concept to WOW and almost any other MMO. No 'character classes', the ability to train to do anything, the ability to be able to compete (to a degree) with anyone (usually restricted to specialization unfortunately, but thats another discussion). You can pvp in many many different forms, you could for example never leave a station and still play the game and have fun. It has risk, it has reward. There are many aspects of the game that people love and hate, but the inbuilt adaptability is what I think makes it attractive and also what keeps people playing it. It has shelf life EVE is the better GAME, however, WOW is/was certainly far more fun for the few months I played it. It has mass appeal, EVE does not. WOW has been responsible for a huge increase in people playing MMOs, I expect there are quite a few people coming to EVE from WOW. Silly fanboys like to point fingers and call all WOW players 10 year olds, but that's simply not true, when I played WOW, I met people from 12 to 65, guess what? yes thats right, I play EVE with people aged 12 - 65.....and the same age range in every other MMO I have played over the years(DAOC, Planetside, Jumpgate, Anarchy Online.....)
Splagada Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:22:00 - [20] id put Populous, Lemmings way before any wow or eve, or wolfenstein castle (the original). for online, what was it. Realm Online? those were the programs that invented the "gaming" idea. real new concepts, totally original. now we call that a "fps" or sadly a "dommlike", or a "mmorpg" - Looking for technetium delivery contracts
Pepperami Art of War	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:25:00 - [21] Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant #1 was Oblivion. At least Eve went up a few places and WoW dropped a few... That was the best of all time? I enjoyed it, but there were far better games I enjoyed much more at the time they were "new", baldurs gate, baldurs gate II (omg dual wield!), day of the tentacle, wolfenstein 3D and so on.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:30:00 - [22] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/08/2006 15:35:36 Originally by: Matori Kar EVE is the better GAME, however, WOW is/was certainly far more fun for the few months I played it. It has mass appeal, EVE does not. I played WoW before EVE, and even then without being spoiled by EVE, it bored me in about 20 minutes. I kept playing, but it never got fun. Saying that WoW has "little grind" is ridiculous: its the only game I have played in my entire life that made every part of the game a grind. PvP is a grind: a grind to get honor. Raiding is a grind: a grind to get that uber-rare raid item you want. Leveling is a grind, obviously. Crafting is a grind: get all your materials (a grind) and go click, click, click on the button. Getting faction standing is a grind... god everything is a grind. Oh, and Oblivion number 1 is ridiculous. Morrowind was better in many ways (especially in the sense of the story). There were flawed game mechanics (the leveling and XP system was downhill from morrowind... e.g. you got the same XP for every spell no matter whether its a noob spell or a 100-mana uberspell). And overall while it was a damn good game, saying it is the best of all time is absolutely ridiculous. My method of judging games is simple: how long they keep my attention. The vast majority of games can't keep my attention for more than a few hours to days, simply because they are boring and uninteresting. A select few have kept my interest for more than a month: Alpha Centauri EVE Online Earth and Beyond Shattered Galaxy Anarchy Online (just barely, 2 months) Starcraft Age of Empires 2 Diablo 2 Homeworld and a few more that I've probably forgotten about. --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Clytamnestra Jazz Associates R i s e	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:41:00 - [23] Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant #1 was Oblivion. At least Eve went up a few places and WoW dropped a few... Hell I played Daggerfall more than Oblivion. --
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:44:00 - [24] Edited by: Matori Kar on 09/08/2006 15:44:45 Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Matori Kar EVE is the better GAME, however, WOW is/was certainly far more fun for the few months I played it. It has mass appeal, EVE does not. Saying that WoW has "little grind" is ridiculous: its the only game I have played in my entire life that made every part of the game a grind. PvP is a grind: a grind to get honor. Raiding is a grind: a grind to get that uber-rare raid item you want. Leveling is a grind, obviously. Crafting is a grind: get all your materials (a grind) and go click, click, click on the button. Getting faction standing is a grind... god everything is a grind. Lol, I am happy for you that you never played earlier games like DAOC etc - the grind in WOW is pathetic in the extreme when compared to earlier games in the genre Originally by: Dark Shikari Oh, and Oblivion number 1 is ridiculous. Morrowind was better in many ways (especially in the sense of the story). There were flawed game mechanics (the leveling and XP system was downhill from morrowind... e.g. you got the same XP for every spell no matter whether its a noob spell or a 100-mana uberspell). And overall while it was a good game, saying it is the best of all time is absolutely ridiculous. WOW (pun intended ) I agree with something DS has written /faints (no sarcasm intended) Originally by: Clytamnestra Oh, and I don't put much past any top-100 games ever list. It's like when MTV ran top-100 songs ever, and none of them were older than twenty years. People always vote for the latest and 'greatest' even if it isn't
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:47:00 - [25] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/08/2006 15:47:39 Originally by: Matori Kar Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Matori Kar EVE is the better GAME, however, WOW is/was certainly far more fun for the few months I played it. It has mass appeal, EVE does not. Saying that WoW has "little grind" is ridiculous: its the only game I have played in my entire life that made every part of the game a grind. PvP is a grind: a grind to get honor. Raiding is a grind: a grind to get that uber-rare raid item you want. Leveling is a grind, obviously. Crafting is a grind: get all your materials (a grind) and go click, click, click on the button. Getting faction standing is a grind... god everything is a grind. Lol, I am happy for you that you never played earlier games like DAOC etc - the grind in WOW is pathetic in the extreme when compared to earlier games in the genre I'm not saying that in WoW the grind is long. Indeed, leveling and the like is fast compared to old-style and Korean MMOs. However, instead of grinding for a long time and then doing something fun (like PvP), the entire game consists only of short grinds and nothing else. Even PvP is turned into a grind through the honor system. --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Stephar Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:51:00 - [26] Originally by: Clytamnestra Am I the only one a little bit tired of the animosity shown World of Warcraft, and all the other fantasy first-person mmorpgs? I mean, they're two completely different games. I played WoW for a long time. Bored of it now. Felt like I was paying a monthly fee to spend time woth other peoples' kids. But arguing whether WoW is better than EVE is like arguing whether chess is better than poker. Oh, and I don't put much past any top-100 games ever list. It's like when MTV ran top-100 songs ever, and none of them were older than twenty years. Missed The Beatles by a smidge, eh? Agreed, bashing WoW is getting a little old. They are two completely different games. WoW is the best traditional fantasy MMORPG ever created, manipulating all the old tricks & trades better than any of its predecessors. Its easy to play, highly customizable, and offers content for both hardcore and casual players. And of any MMORPG that I've ever played, it is by far the most polished and bug-free. Is it perfect? Of course not. Its design is not exactly original, the introduction of new content is extremely slow, the end-game is a grind, and too much of its content is instanced. And worst of all, the game is designed linearly. Raids are the worst culprit, as you have to farm Molten Core to do Blackwing Lair, which you need to farm to do Naxx, which you need to farm to do _____, etc. This is where EVE wins. With player generated content, the game has a much longer shelf life. I'd love to see an EVE-style game with the financial backing of a company like Blizzard. Imagine if CCP could increase the number of devs by x10... more bugs would get fixed, and content would arrive at a higher rate. IMO, such a game would almost be perfect. But perfection is something that can never be attained, only something to strive for. WoW is like the Starcraft of MMORPG's. Starcraft didn't really do anything new with the RTS genre, it just did it better than any of its predecessors. EVE is more of a pioneer, and I wouldn't be surprised to see some of its defining mechanics incorporated into future MMORPG's. I don't understand why people can't appreciate both games for what they are.
Verone	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:55:00 - [27] Originally by: Dark Shikari I played WoW before EVE, and even then without being spoiled by EVE, it bored me in about 20 minutes. I once looked at WoW and picked it off the shelf in my local Game Store. I then laughed and promptly proceeded to put it back. Immediately after, I headed to the toilet block in the shopping center to wash my hands free of the mindless, pointless filth of grinding with NO outcome and the stupidness of elves and pixies sitting in a field picking flowers all day. I'd rather remove certain, specific parts of my anatomy with a rusty bread knife than become a fanboi of Blizzard. VETO RECRUITMENT
Clytamnestra Jazz Associates R i s e	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:59:00 - [28] Originally by: Verone Immediately after, I headed to the toilet block in the shopping center to wash my hands free of the mindless, pointless filth of grinding with NO outcome and the stupidness of elves and pixies sitting in a field picking flowers all day. Well to be fair, what's the outcome in EVE? Isn't it just like any other game. You play it, you have fun doing it, and that's what you take out of it? --
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:02:00 - [29] Edited by: Matori Kar on 09/08/2006 16:03:08 Originally by: Dark Shikari However, instead of grinding for a long time and then doing something fun (like PvP), the entire game consists only of short grinds and nothing else. Even PvP is turned into a grind through the honor system. [/quote Bah, you didnt NEED to follow the honour system, heck, I played for quite some time just to log on and use WOW as an fps style game (ignored instances etc cos I got bored of doing them) I only quit because the server I was mainly playing on became so absurdly imbalanced I would have had to wait 6 hours to get into AV, although I am sure I wuold have quit soon after anyway.. It was only because I had quit WOW and had no other game to play (was/am waiting for Pirates of the Burning Sea - but then, I have been waiting for it for years, but they look like they are screwing it up in a majorly sad carebear (badly implimented pvp) sort of way ) that I came back and looked at EVE again (was in the BETA which is why I didnt go retail, heh, god it was f'in bad) Edit: Still not finished playing Oblivion, it really is not as good as Morrowind
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:05:00 - [30] Originally by: Clytamnestra Originally by: Verone Immediately after, I headed to the toilet block in the shopping center to wash my hands free of the mindless, pointless filth of grinding with NO outcome and the stupidness of elves and pixies sitting in a field picking flowers all day. Well to be fair, what's the outcome in EVE? Isn't it just like any other game. You play it, you have fun doing it, and that's what you take out of it? You play it in a way you find fun and you have fun doing it. In World of Warcraft, you play it in a way Blizzard tells you is fun and don't have fun doing it. --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:13:00 - [31] Here's their top ten: 1. Oblivion 2. Half-Life 2 (+ ep2) 3. Deus Ex 4. BF2 5. WoW 6. Civilization IV 7. Rome: Total War 8. Thief: Deadly Shadows 9. GTA: San Andreas 10. The Sims 2 nuff said
Caol	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:14:00 - [32] Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant #1 was Oblivion. At least Eve went up a few places and WoW dropped a few... As said previously, this is a good game but #1...kinda puts the whole 100 in perspective. IGN have another top 100 (which Eve isn't in ) but includes games that are, in my opinion, the shoulders todays giant games stand on.
Ilea Celentay Concealed Judgement	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:17:00 - [33] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/08/2006 14:56:36 Originally by: Aodha Khan Originally by: Brutor Shaun World of Warcraft? A whole page and placed number 5 Unbelievable. There is NOTHING that makes WoW a top 5 MMORPG never mind a top 5 game. World of Warcraft is popular for the same reason N'Sync and the Backstreet Boys went platinum. And please, please don't argue that N'Sync or the Backstreet Boys made good music. /me hides her Backstreet Boys platinum album.... - "We have big plans. Secret plans, but BIG!"
Aodha Khan Minmatar Blood Inquisition	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:18:00 - [34] Edited by: Aodha Khan on 09/08/2006 16:19:03 Originally by: Stephar Agreed, bashing WoW is getting a little old. They are two completely different games. WoW is the best traditional fantasy MMORPG ever created, manipulating all the old tricks & trades better than any of its predecessors. Its easy to play, highly customizable, and offers content for both hardcore and casual players. This isn't about bashing or comparison. WoW got no.5 in best games of all time. Many find this unbelievable considering it hasn't provided anything new to the MMORPG genre. Ultima Online of 10 years ago had a more advanced gameplay environment than WoW. I have yet to hear anything sustancial stating why WoW is such a good game that it deserves to be ranked no.5. It's basically skilling up by killing the same monsters over and over till lv60 then working for items so you can win at PvP for no reason other than e-peen levels. So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:22:00 - [35] Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant Here's their top ten: 1. Oblivion 2. Half-Life 2 (+ ep2) 3. Deus Ex 4. BF2 5. WoW 6. Civilization IV 7. Rome: Total War 8. Thief: Deadly Shadows 9. GTA: San Andreas 10. The Sims 2 Wow that list is BS. It might be slightly more believable if it said "best games of the past few years", but even then it would be quite off. --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
arbitrary Bad luck Clover Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:25:00 - [36] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/08/2006 14:56:36 Originally by: Aodha Khan Originally by: Brutor Shaun World of Warcraft? A whole page and placed number 5 Unbelievable. There is NOTHING that makes WoW a top 5 MMORPG never mind a top 5 game. World of Warcraft is popular for the same reason N'Sync and the Backstreet Boys went platinum. And please, please don't argue that N'Sync or the Backstreet Boys made good music. Why not? Well I'll give it a try anyway. Those who wrote the music to N'Sync & Backstreet Boys knew what they where doing, or not everyone loves free form jazz or IDM electronica, some want the downgraded versions and that is what Max Martin and the coaltion of boyband/popdiva music producers gave the world, you might hate it like the plauge, but well I know alot that hate it when I play Merzbow, Il Giardino Armonico or Albert Ayler. So WoW is loved by many, they might be ignorant tards in your eyes, but ain't we all in someone eyes? I know my uncle considers me as such, while his son sees me as everything his father aint, in a positive aspect that is (he is revolting though); not to mention all those that are tards in the purest sense in my eyes. In the end though, am I right when I say that my perticulars is the only way to fly, and don't you dare listen to power metal or anything about castles and dragons, oh besides you can not argue about it, all(god, allah, me and I) know that it is so. Or perhaps taste is just an other *** (among many), soak it up rather then try to waste ammunition shooting it down. Though I do agree on one point, that WoW is popular for the same reason N'sync and crew were. ___ Arbi** all I want is for you to smile.
Krayl Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:26:00 - [37] Edited by: Krayl on 09/08/2006 16:29:57 Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant Here's their top ten: 1. Oblivion 2. Half-Life 2 (+ ep2) 3. Deus Ex 4. BF2 5. WoW 6. Civilization IV 7. Rome: Total War 8. Thief: Deadly Shadows 9. GTA: San Andreas 10. The Sims 2 nuff said Mostly I find PCG UK to be spot on with their reviews, and I certainly agree that these games are generally well regarded/have large player base. Most older classics tend to fall down the top 100 lists purely on graphics points though, as far as I can see... I think GTA was #1 a year or two back so no surprise it's still in the top ten. But yeah, Oblivion at 1 surprises me a bit. Originally by: Dark Shikari Wow that list is BS. It might be slightly more believable if it said "best games of the past few years", but even then it would be quite off. I personally am of the opinion that games are getting better over time so lists only containing more recent games is actually not that disagreeable. When I go back to an older game, there have been a fair few cases that I find myself complaining at the controls, cringing at graphics and being irriated at mechanics that force you to do three things instead of one.
Jobie Thickburger Gallente Miner Guide to the Galaxy	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:26:00 - [38] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant Here's their top ten: 1. Oblivion 2. Half-Life 2 (+ ep2) 3. Deus Ex 4. BF2 5. WoW 6. Civilization IV 7. Rome: Total War 8. Thief: Deadly Shadows 9. GTA: San Andreas 10. The Sims 2 Wow that list is BS. It might be slightly more believable if it said "best games of the past few years", but even then it would be quite off. Agreed, Everyone knows that the best game of all time was Tetris! Also liked your list of games eariler DS, but um.... You seem to have missed Master of Orion I and II, III was ok but not the same game and to complex... CEO - MGTTG
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:27:00 - [39] Originally by: arbitrary and don't you dare listen to power metal or anything about castles and dragons What's wrong with power metal? Something better not be wrong with it, it makes up 2/3 of my music collection --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:27:00 - [40] Originally by: Jobie Thickburger Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant Here's their top ten: 1. Oblivion 2. Half-Life 2 (+ ep2) 3. Deus Ex 4. BF2 5. WoW 6. Civilization IV 7. Rome: Total War 8. Thief: Deadly Shadows 9. GTA: San Andreas 10. The Sims 2 Wow that list is BS. It might be slightly more believable if it said "best games of the past few years", but even then it would be quite off. Agreed, Everyone knows that the best game of all time was Tetris! Also liked your list of games eariler DS, but um.... You seem to have missed Master of Orion I and II, III was ok but not the same game and to complex... My list is not a list of really good games, its a list of games that have lasted me a long time. Master of Orion II (the best of them IMO) isn't on the list yet because I only started playing it 4 days ago. --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Pakalolo Tha Shiznit	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:28:00 - [41] The US edition PCG is truly pathetic compared to the UK vers. Despite the former beautiful full inside back cover ads, eve rarely gets mentioned. I was excited to see the article on Istvaan. but since then eve has not been mentioned in the mag. I'm glad you pulled your advertising from them and went to Computer Gaming, and I hope eve gets more exposure there. And just being on this kind of list kicks ass, congrats CCP.
Lardarz B'stard Amarr Out Of Exile	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:29:00 - [42] Edited by: Lardarz B''stard on 09/08/2006 16:32:43 Originally by: Caol games that are, in my opinion, the shoulders todays giant games stand on. It still doesn't mean that they should appear in a top 10 games ever. Just cos something is classic, or old, doesn't make it any good NOW. They have been superceded. I recently played Tomb Raider again for the first time in ages after thinking it was one of the best games I've ever played. Now I realised that by todays standards it sucks pretty horribly. Half life 1, for example, is a classic game. Compared to Halflife 2 it is pretty pants. Exceptions to this might include FFVII, Supermario World and Zelda. Old biddies who are stuck in the past go on about how good things were in the good old days. I expect more from a bunch of people who are involved in computing or whatever, supposedly at the cutting edge of technology. I don't want another Elite, or another Horace Goes Skiing. I want something that blows them out of the water. Exiles Recruitment
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:37:00 - [43] Originally by: Lardarz B'stard Originally by: Caol games that are, in my opinion, the shoulders todays giant games stand on. It still doesn't mean that they should appear in a top 10 games ever. Just cos something is classic, or old, doesn't make it any good NOW. They have been superceded. I recently played Tomb Raider again for the first time in ages after thinking it was one of the best games I've ever played. Now I realised that by todays standards it sucks pretty horribly. Half life 1, for example, is a classic game. Compared to Halflife 2 it is pretty pants. Exceptions to this might include FFVII, Supermario World and Zelda. Old biddies who are stuck in the past go on about how good things were in the good old days. I expect more from a bunch of people who are involved in computing or whatever, supposedly at the cutting edge of technology. I don't want another Elite, or another Horace Goes Skiing. I want something that blows them out of the water. Not always true. Alpha Centauri is most definitely superior to Civilization 4 in nearly every way except graphics. And even graphics-wise its pretty nice. Half Life 1 is not "pants" compared to Half Life 2. I played it again recently and thought it was better. The only thing Half Life 2 really has going for it is the gravity gun, physics engine, and graphics. But to say the least, thats a heck of a lot. Half Life 2 could be considered better, but calling Half Life 1 "pants" is just ignorant. Sometimes "classic" games stay the best because no developer has come up with anything better. --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Debolika Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:38:00 - [44] Originally by: Brutor Shaun The UK edition of PC Gamer has released their top 100 gamers ever, and Eve got a whole paragraph and came in at number 30. World of Warcraft? A whole page and placed number 5 Some things are just wrong. The PCG top 100 is one of them. Oh sure, because millions of computer gamers would rather be sitting in front of an asteroid mining rather than tromping through the world of Azeroth killing things... /rolls_eyes As a couple posters above indicated, "Silly Fanbois" WoW is very much a superior game to EVE, in almost every way except for depth... Depth is what makes me pay subscriptions, hence why I am here... It probably makes you fanbois feel pretty secure knowing you can come here to your little cave (forums) and cast down the over 6 million heathens for liking a game in which you feel is inferior, and they as inferior too... So why don't you all grow a pair, suck it up and quit bashing a game that is much more complete, polished and popular than our beloved EVE and just leave it at that... It is like trying to compare Arena football to the NFL... 400x120@24000 bytes Max. -Capsicum
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:41:00 - [45] Originally by: Debolika Originally by: Brutor Shaun The UK edition of PC Gamer has released their top 100 gamers ever, and Eve got a whole paragraph and came in at number 30. World of Warcraft? A whole page and placed number 5 Some things are just wrong. The PCG top 100 is one of them. Oh sure, because millions of computer gamers would rather be sitting in front of an asteroid mining rather than tromping through the world of Azeroth killing things... /rolls_eyes As a couple posters above indicated, "Silly Fanbois" WoW is very much a superior game to EVE, in almost every way except for depth... Depth is what makes me pay subscriptions, hence why I am here... It probably makes you fanbois feel pretty secure knowing you can come here to your little cave (forums) and cast down the over 6 million heathens for liking a game in which you feel is inferior, and they as inferior too... So why don't you all grow a pair, suck it up and quit bashing a game that is much more complete, polished and popular than our beloved EVE and just leave it at that... It is like trying to compare Arena football to the NFL... If you hate EVE so much, why do you play it? Why do you "mine asteroids in belts" when you could be killing unicorns and fairies in World of Warcraft land? P.S. Do you like N'Sync, Britney Spears, the Backstreet Boys, and Ashlee Simpson? Clearly a hundred million people couldn't be wrong: these groups and singers must be the best of all time! --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Caol	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:43:00 - [46] Originally by: Lardarz B'stard Edited by: Lardarz B''stard on 09/08/2006 16:32:43 Originally by: Caol games that are, in my opinion, the shoulders todays giant games stand on. It still doesn't mean that they should appear in a top 10 games ever. Just cos something is classic, or old, doesn't make it any good NOW. Over a long enough time everything will get a bit jaded, for sure, and every so often something that has been done before but rehashed and presented in a new way will be very popular. What I meant was that the top 100 games should be based on originality, that the concepts first introduced and used to increase gaming to the maximum; in the games gone before; be the criteria a top 100 is based on. Though thats me, obviously nobody puts a top 100 together on that criteria, cos it would more than likely be completely anal and an extremely tedious read.
Debolika Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:49:00 - [47] Edited by: Debolika on 09/08/2006 16:55:25 Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Debolika Originally by: Brutor Shaun The UK edition of PC Gamer has released their top 100 gamers ever, and Eve got a whole paragraph and came in at number 30. World of Warcraft? A whole page and placed number 5 Some things are just wrong. The PCG top 100 is one of them. Oh sure, because millions of computer gamers would rather be sitting in front of an asteroid mining rather than tromping through the world of Azeroth killing things... /rolls_eyes As a couple posters above indicated, "Silly Fanbois" WoW is very much a superior game to EVE, in almost every way except for depth... Depth is what makes me pay subscriptions, hence why I am here... It probably makes you fanbois feel pretty secure knowing you can come here to your little cave (forums) and cast down the over 6 million heathens for liking a game in which you feel is inferior, and they as inferior too... So why don't you all grow a pair, suck it up and quit bashing a game that is much more complete, polished and popular than our beloved EVE and just leave it at that... It is like trying to compare Arena football to the NFL... If you hate EVE so much, why do you play it? See bolded statements from my previous post, reading skills FTW... 400x120@24000 bytes Max. -Capsicum
Lardarz B'stard Amarr Out Of Exile	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:54:00 - [48] Originally by: Caol What I meant was that the top 100 games should be based on originality, that the concepts first introduced and used to increase gaming to the maximum; in the games gone before; be the criteria a top 100 is based on. Though thats me, obviously nobody puts a top 100 together on that criteria, cos it would more than likely be completely anal and an extremely tedious read. I totally see your point, and agree that the original titles of games deserve a mention in a top 100 but... Remember that it is considerably more difficult to come up with an original idea NOW than it was then. There was a time when 'lets make a game that involves lots of wizards and fairies in a persistent world' would be a totally new, original idea. There was also a time when 'lets put 4 guys with guitars and drums together and sing a song' was a totally original idea too. Put a creative genius who has never heard of computer games into a room for a day and ask him to come up with a great new game idea, and the chances are he will come up with a great idea that has already been done to death. Games such as Spore seem to show that originality is not completely dead. However, to exclude games from a top 10 just because they develop an idea that has been done before is to exclude quality for the sake of misguided purist posterity. Exiles Recruitment
Ilya Murametz Caldari Hybonashi Industries	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:54:00 - [49] Originally by: coldplasma Edited by: coldplasma on 09/08/2006 14:32:44 To be honest, the only reason WoW is always voted ahead of EVE is because of it's huge advertising thrust resulting in huge popularity. I've played WoW and don't really find it very interesting. I hope CCP plans on making a few publicity campaigns once the new version of Trinity comes out. CCP servers cant handle what we have now..... "few" publicity campaigns will bring us down completely. just my 2 cents.
Marund Cooperative Freelance Navigators Association	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:54:00 - [50] For a rare moment I agree with DS. That list is utter crap. However, I must disagree that HL1 was better than HL2. Yes, they are both great games and should both be in any sane top 10 list, but I feel there are some things that HL2 did so much better. Most notably, the total and complete immersion you got in the game, between the dead-on physics (and best part of that was that it wasn't a cheap gimmick, it was an honest gameplay element), face modeling on the characters (holy crap!), and other things. HL2 also had the single best pacing I have ever seen in a game, ever. It's the one game I can really say "Yeah, that's the PERFECT length for that game". That being said, how Doom II was not on that list boggles me. I don't like sigs, this one in particular.
Caol	Posted - 2006.08.09 17:17:00 - [51] Originally by: Lardarz B'stard Remember that it is considerably more difficult to come up with an original idea NOW than it was then...Put a creative genius who has never heard of computer games into a room for a day and ask him to come up with a great new game idea, and the chances are he will come up with a great idea that has already been done to death Nah. These people (thanks to wiki) don't seem to have a problem: Shigeru Miyamoto , Peter Molyneux, Hideo Kojima and many others that I can't remember off the top of my head (oh, these peeps too ofc ).
Marund Cooperative Freelance Navigators Association	Posted - 2006.08.09 17:19:00 - [52] Peter Molyneux, ARGGHhh Yeah, he can have good idea, but they always end up being lies. Pretty, happy lies, but lies WHY PETER? YOU HAD SUCH GOOD IDEAS! I don't like sigs, this one in particular.
Tobin Farr Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.09 17:20:00 - [53] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant Here's their top ten: 1. Oblivion 2. Half-Life 2 (+ ep2) 3. Deus Ex 4. BF2 5. WoW 6. Civilization IV 7. Rome: Total War 8. Thief: Deadly Shadows 9. GTA: San Andreas 10. The Sims 2 Wow that list is BS. It might be slightly more believable if it said "best games of the past few years", but even then it would be quite off. I only see four games there that are worthy being in Top 100: Thief: Deadly Shadows Rome: Total War Deus Ex Civilization IV All the rest -- Pfft! I would still like to get the full list.
Ti Nsi Celtic Anarchy	Posted - 2006.08.09 17:24:00 - [54] Oh, I thought it wasn't in the list at all. I can go fish that issue out of the bin now I suppose..
Caol	Posted - 2006.08.09 17:24:00 - [55] Haha, i read an interview with Peter Molyneux in the Edge once and he did come across as alittle arrogant, but credit where credit is due.
Marund Cooperative Freelance Navigators Association	Posted - 2006.08.09 17:27:00 - [56] Originally by: Caol Haha, i read an interview with Peter Molyneux in the Edge once and he did come across as alittle arrogant, but credit where credit is due. A little? This is the guy that said we'd have all these wonderful features in Fable. When the game came out, they weren't there. He then said (not quoting here, something like this), "well, the fans shouldn't have expected those things, they should have known it was just talk". But.. you.. lead.. design.. make.. features... GRRAHHHH! I don't like sigs, this one in particular.
The Slayer Caldari Millennium E.R.A	Posted - 2006.08.09 17:31:00 - [57] If Peter Molyneux got half the creative control that Sid Meier or Will Wright do his games would be the pwn. I think its more the publisher that makes his games sucky, he gets pressured into releasing with half the stuff he promised not in the game. And to all the people bashing WoW. Sure you dont like it. But 6 million people do. It isnt an utter pile of garbage as soon seem to think, its a fun, polished game that can be quite relaxing and VERY pretty. Might not be your cup of tea but that doesnt make it s***. __________________________________ Your Dual 250mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes Estamel Tharchon, wrecking for 187.6 damage.
Caol	Posted - 2006.08.09 17:41:00 - [58] Originally by: Marund Originally by: Caol Haha, i read an interview with Peter Molyneux in the Edge once and he did come across as alittle arrogant, but credit where credit is due. A little? This is the guy that said we'd have all these wonderful features in Fable. When the game came out, they weren't there. He then said (not quoting here, something like this), "well, the fans shouldn't have expected those things, they should have known it was just talk". But.. you.. lead.. design.. make.. features... GRRAHHHH! Ah, I didn't know that. I was thinking more in terms of Syndicate and Populus. Syndicate is what I would imagine if Eve was to ever simulate outposts, stations or cities. Anyway, didn't mean to de-rail the thread
Caethes Adain Minmatar The Descendents	Posted - 2006.08.09 17:43:00 - [59] I kinda agree with oblivion being high up in the charts, it's not so much what the game is, but what it can become. Already people have started adding content, improving upon it. Give it another 6 months and it could become something pretty special. Deffinately seems like more of a 'more popular' than 'points for actually being worthwhile" kinda chart. People dissapoint me. End my dissapointment.
The Slayer Caldari Millennium E.R.A	Posted - 2006.08.09 17:58:00 - [60] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 ( Ie making everyone use gates to travel, and needing to warp everywhere to travel both very poor choices that prevent EVE from having truly great gameplay) Ok I was with you till you got here. What are your alternatives to warping/gateing? __________________________________ Your Dual 250mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes Estamel Tharchon, wrecking for 187.6 damage.
Jobie Thickburger Gallente Miner Guide to the Galaxy	Posted - 2006.08.09 18:15:00 - [61] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Jobie Thickburger Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant Here's their top ten: 1. Oblivion 2. Half-Life 2 (+ ep2) 3. Deus Ex 4. BF2 5. WoW 6. Civilization IV 7. Rome: Total War 8. Thief: Deadly Shadows 9. GTA: San Andreas 10. The Sims 2 Wow that list is BS. It might be slightly more believable if it said "best games of the past few years", but even then it would be quite off. Agreed, Everyone knows that the best game of all time was Tetris! Also liked your list of games eariler DS, but um.... You seem to have missed Master of Orion I and II, III was ok but not the same game and to complex... My list is not a list of really good games, its a list of games that have lasted me a long time. Master of Orion II (the best of them IMO) isn't on the list yet because I only started playing it 4 days ago. Power to the Mrrshan Armada! And I understand where your coming form, Most of those games you listed are the ones on my top 10 list as well... (need to find a copy of Alpha centari...) MOOII is one of those that you can keep in your collection, and when you get board with something, Or there's a server upgrade () you can spend a few dozen hours taking over a different galaxy :) Has good Replay value. --- I understand how Graphics changing can earn the newer games big points on a Top 10 list, But Are they taking in the Cultural effect too? (I don't read PCG Mag, so can't say they do) If they want to do a list like that and call it the best of all time, I'd think it would be important to look at the effect ithad on society. WOW would probally earn its spot where it is, Simply because of how much of an effect it has on (the American anyway) public. But most of these games were Big hits, that died down in popularity after a while, Such as Oblivion... for 1 month thats all I heard about, and after that, This is the first time it's made a comeback in my memory. On the other hand, Games like Pac-Man and Tetris are still around. Also, back (before my time) a few decades (feel old yet?) ago, they had things such as Tetris/Pacman Bars... and who can forget those good ole tabels with the Pacman machine inside of them. If you ask me, these games belong on a top 10 of all time list... Tetris Pac-Man (both classics that took the world by storm) Master of Orion (defined the Turn-Base Stratagey game) Everquest (started the current MMORPG craze) World of Warcraft (made MMO's a mainstream item) Wing Commander (frist popular Space-fighter sim, started a treand that would run for most of the 90's) ... All of these should be somewhere near the top IMO, as well as many more that I can't think of. Of course, Everyone has different opinions, And mine are worth about 2 ISK CEO - MGTTG
Imperial Coercion Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.09 18:19:00 - [62] Originally by: Brutor Shaun The UK edition of PC Gamer has released their top 100 gamers ever, and Eve got a whole paragraph and came in at number 30. World of Warcraft? A whole page and placed number 5 Some things are just wrong. The PCG top 100 is one of them. What type is rubbish magazine is that that rates World Of Warcraft as the no.5 best game ever created? And you seriously pay for that ***? Adversus solem ne loquito Minmatar*
Skva Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.08.09 18:22:00 - [63] Edited by: Skva on 09/08/2006 18:26:19 I'm not a WoW fanboy, I don't even play the game. But, WoW alone has attracted millions of people to the MMO sector, that's pretty incredible for just one game. That's probably why it got a higher rank than EVE, it's not necessarily a 'better game', it just had a hell of a lot more impact than EVE. edit:Just seen the list of top ten games up there ^ ...OBLIVION?! You gotta be kidding me. It's an awesome game, don't get me wrong, but best EVER? How do they actually come up with the list, anyway? Is it based on an averaged score based on graphics, gameplay, storyline, etc, like most magazines? It's also probably down to the guy who wrote that list, what his personal preferences are. I.e. Fantasy games... Oblivion... WoW... (Forgotten the other ones now, either way, I wouldn't take too much notice of that list, it's complete BS.) Your signature is too large! Please resize it according to the forum guidelines. Jacques Archambault
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.08.09 18:24:00 - [64] Sales figures is nothing, it shouldnt even be in the equasion. For the state for the state for the state
Skva Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.08.09 18:34:00 - [65] Originally by: Death Kill Sales figures is nothing, it shouldnt even be in the equasion. I didn't mean sales figures per se, more along the lines of what someone else said above me ^, the impact it has had on society. And someone mentioned Everquest, completely forgot about that, I'm suprised that isn't in the top 10. Your signature is too large! Please resize it according to the forum guidelines. Jacques Archambault
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.08.09 18:36:00 - [66] Originally by: Skva Originally by: Death Kill Sales figures is nothing, it shouldnt even be in the equasion. I didn't mean sales figures per se, more along the lines of what someone else said above me ^, the impact it has had on society. And someone mentioned Everquest, completely forgot about that, I'm suprised that isn't in the top 10. Well then 'impact on society' should count either. I got MEdal of honor as a birthday gift years ago, and because of its crapness I turned mentally ill and had to spend 12 months in a mental hospital...so in a sense it had an impact on society. To rate a game on its impact on society is just ignorant. For the state for the state for the state
Skva Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.08.09 18:41:00 - [67] Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: Skva Originally by: Death Kill Sales figures is nothing, it shouldnt even be in the equasion. I didn't mean sales figures per se, more along the lines of what someone else said above me ^, the impact it has had on society. And someone mentioned Everquest, completely forgot about that, I'm suprised that isn't in the top 10. Well then 'impact on society' should count either. I got MEdal of honor as a birthday gift years ago, and because of its crapness I turned mentally ill and had to spend 12 months in a mental hospital...so in a sense it had an impact on society. To rate a game on its impact on society is just ignorant. So what, in your opinion, should it be rated on? Graphics is extremely low on my list. Genre defining? Awesome Gameplay, amazingly immersive storyline? Personally I think WoW deserves to be relativly high up for the reason stated, although we think it's crap, mind numbingly boring, there are millions out there who actually like it. Hard to believe I know. That said, I don't think it deserves number five, thinking about all the other games out there that have come and gone, there are so many more that deserve to be in that top 10. Your signature is too large! Please resize it according to the forum guidelines. Jacques Archambault
Marund Cooperative Freelance Navigators Association	Posted - 2006.08.09 18:45:00 - [68] Edited by: Marund on 09/08/2006 18:45:37 Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: Skva Originally by: Death Kill Sales figures is nothing, it shouldnt even be in the equasion. I didn't mean sales figures per se, more along the lines of what someone else said above me ^, the impact it has had on society. And someone mentioned Everquest, completely forgot about that, I'm suprised that isn't in the top 10. Well then 'impact on society' should count either. I got MEdal of honor as a birthday gift years ago, and because of its crapness I turned mentally ill and had to spend 12 months in a mental hospital...so in a sense it had an impact on society. To rate a game on its impact on society is just ignorant. My God, Medal of Honor as a gift?! That's not a gift, that's like... someone shooting you in the mouth for your birthday Although it could be worse, it could have been Daikatana Edit: Stupid sig... I don't like sigs, this one in particular.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.09 18:45:00 - [69] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "Millions of people sitting in front of a computer grinding for levels can't be wrong." Yeehahaha, but the hundred thousand sitting in front of thier computer grinding ISK goto be right? Make no mistake more people play WOW because it is a BETTER GAME PERIOD irregardless of the fact yours and my preference might be EVE. PEople are not volunarily saying man i know EVE rocks and i would have soooo much more fun playing it, but instead i'll keep not having fun playing wow! WoW is a a great game period and it has nothing to do with marketing campiagns like some of you knuckleheads wanna beleive, infact there are many more games that had far far greater marketing campaigns than wow, I don;t see them listed as top selling game for literally the entire YEAR. Wait, so why are you here playing EVE? --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Zeknichov Amarr Black Avatar	Posted - 2006.08.09 19:06:00 - [70] The fact that Oblivion got #1 means they are catering to popularity and not actually rating the games. Oblivion does not deserve #1. I haven't seen the list myself but if Zelda OOT, Half-Life and Starcraft are not among the top 5 then the list isn't worth a damn.
Ga'len The Untouchable Allegiance	Posted - 2006.08.09 19:06:00 - [71] Originally by: Brutor Shaun The UK edition of PC Gamer has released their top 100 gamers ever, and Eve got a whole paragraph and came in at number 30. World of Warcraft? A whole page and placed number 5 Some things are just wrong. The PCG top 100 is one of them. Hmm, something must be wrong. My question is where did Diablo, Warcraft, Starcraft, etc...end up. Where were all the other Bilzzard titles on that list. I would take a look at that same review when it comes out year after year. I am willing to bet that WoW will slide down that list and EVE will only move up. Time will tell my friend. EVE will win out. -----------
DirtyHarry Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.09 19:08:00 - [72] I don't see why people cry so much about WoW, it is a very good game which has such a vast number of subscribers due to it suiting alot of casual players whom have never bought an MMO before. I'm sure CCP along with alot of other MMO companies are happy that WoW came onto the market as it has attracted MILLIONS of players to the MMO scene, which is good for all the smaller companies as they will not keep interest in WoW forever and move onto other MMO's. Havocide - DirtyHarry
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.09 19:10:00 - [73] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/08/2006 19:10:02 Originally by: DirtyHarry I don't see why people cry so much about WoW, it is a very good game which has such a vast number of subscribers due to it suiting alot of casual players whom have never bought an MMO before. I've never understood how a game that requires you to spend solid chunks of 3-6 hours just to participate in raids could ever be considered a "casual" game. --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Jason Marshall Hammer Of Light	Posted - 2006.08.09 19:10:00 - [74] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/08/2006 14:56:36 Originally by: Aodha Khan Originally by: Brutor Shaun World of Warcraft? A whole page and placed number 5 Unbelievable. There is NOTHING that makes WoW a top 5 MMORPG never mind a top 5 game. World of Warcraft is popular for the same reason N'Sync and the Backstreet Boys went platinum. And please, please don't argue that N'Sync or the Backstreet Boys made good music. ...good music to who? i must admit, my girlfriend made them tollerable to listen to, by constantly playing there CD's. Tacky lens flares in sigs 4tw!
Terranid Meester	Posted - 2006.08.09 19:21:00 - [75] What type is rubbish magazine is that that rates World Of Warcraft as the no.5 best game ever created? And you seriously pay for that ****? You do realise this is the same magazine that often puts more articles about eve than most other magazines don't you? Anyway I rate this magazine as one of the best but I don't just rate it for its top 100 that only comes out once a year but I pay for the other articles in it. I reckon it must be quite difficult to create a top 100 every year anyway. Last year EVE Online was 90 or 80 something in the top 100 list last year so I believe so I consider that quite an improvement. I could probably tell you the exact score it got but the pile of PC Gamer's have probably turned to something approaching sedimentary rock so i'll have to train archaelogy to get it out I played WoW on a trial but it didn't really approach me as fantastic. Oblivion probably should have been in the top 10 but not 1 and WoW maybe somewhere in the top 20 but not at 5. This is my own opinion anyway.
Abaddon Nostros Minmatar Sisters of EVE - Divine Intervention	Posted - 2006.08.09 19:24:00 - [76] 10 Best games of all time: 10. EvE Online 9. Everquest 8. Ultima Online 7. Pool of Radiance 6. M.U.L.E. 5. Telengard 4. Pitfall 3. Bards Tale II 2. Star Control II 1. Ultima IV Originally by: K'reemy G'udness Oh, you wacky carebears. Stay in 0.9, where your biggest problem is an ore thief who calls himself mayor.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.08.09 19:25:00 - [77] Originally by: Skva So what, in your opinion, should it be rated on? Mainly gameplay, but also inventiveness. Quote: Personally I think WoW deserves to be relativly high up for the reason stated, although we think it's crap, mind numbingly boring, there are millions out there who actually like it. Hard to believe I know. That said, I don't think it deserves number five, thinking about all the other games out there that have come and gone, there are so many more that deserve to be in that top 10. I played wow, I thought it would have been better as an off line game, it was horribly static. To rate it as no.5 over best games ever (online and offline) is just being a)Crazy b)Bought by Blizzard. For the state for the state for the state
arbitrary Bad luck Clover Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.09 19:25:00 - [78] Edited by: arbitrary on 09/08/2006 19:26:29 Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: arbitrary and don't you dare listen to power metal or anything about castles and dragons What's wrong with power metal? Something better not be wrong with it, it makes up 2/3 of my music collection From my side of the coin thats one of the worst things to ever come out of humanity, so it was a good point to make from my perspective that people can like the weirdest things; to end up with the point that good is always relative. Honestly backstreet boys over Hammerfall anyday, though note that I do not talk about the definition of power metal that equals it with pantera, but that to named hammerfall or acts like iced earh and blind guardian. Note that I've walked the edge to it with acts like pantera, entombed etc, and that might be the reason for such a loathing, while other music that might be just as vile, is on a far remove and I just don't care ___ Arbi all I want is for you to smile.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.08.09 19:26:00 - [79] Originally by: Terranid Meester You do realise this is the same magazine that often puts more articles about eve than most other magazines don't you? And, is that supposed to make a difference? For the state for the state for the state
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.08.09 19:31:00 - [80] "Ok I was with you till you got here. What are your alternatives to warping/gateing?" Well it is far to late for EVE, but the better option would have been smaller more condense systems with more in them, and then actualyl flying places with a travel speed mod or altering warp so that it wasnt completely uninteractive meaning you just looked like your going fast could still be targeted, shot at pulled out of travel mode. You could explore, bump into other players and get into scraps etc. For gates just don;t have em period game you just "load" into the next system when you reach the border. would require different architecture than EVE currently so that type of thing will never happen, and that is pretty much why eve is destined to struggle, the only places pvp can occur is at gates, and well this means camping, and camping is boring and lame. 99% of the issues and problems with eve stem back to this issue one way or another. Anyway you slice it eve is still a good game but it could/should been much better atleast imho :P
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.09 19:32:00 - [81] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/08/2006 19:33:30 Originally by: arbitrary Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: arbitrary and don't you dare listen to power metal or anything about castles and dragons What's wrong with power metal? Something better not be wrong with it, it makes up 2/3 of my music collection From my side of the coin thats one of the worst things to ever come out of humanity, so it was a good point to make from my perspective that people can like the weirdest things; to end up with the point that good is always relative. Honestly backstreet boys over Hammerfall anyday, though note that I do not talk about the definition of power metal that equals it with pantera, but that to named hammerfall or acts like iced earh and blind guardian. Note that I've walked the edge to it with acts like pantera, entombed etc, and that might be the reason for such a loathing, while other music that might be just as vile, is on a far remove and I just don't care Hammerfall isn't exactly my favorite. They have a couple good songs but most of it is pretty mediocre. Nightwish is good. Dragonforce is good. Masterplan is pretty good. And god, if you consider power metal one of the worst things to come out of humanity... you better not turn on your radio, or else your brain might explode . 98% of rock music I hear is far worse than power metal, so I doubt you would come out alive. Put simply, Power Metal = Rock/metal + Someone who can actually sing + Melodic, uplifting sound (rather than stuff that makes you want to kill yourself). Thus, if you don't like power metal, you either don't like good singing, don't like a melodic sound, or you don't like rock in the first place, in which case half of the world of music is pretty much shut off to you. P.S. Wow I'm off topic. --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.08.09 19:41:00 - [82] "Wait, so why are you here playing EVE?" Because I personally prefer it right now. I almost might prefer liver and onions over filet minion does that make liver and onions the worlds greatest meal? Of course not. I mean all of this is subjective in the first place, which is why beleive the best of all would be the game that appeals to most. Which is the only real way you can create a list like the top 100. Each person will have thier own list that would be different, but if you compiled all the lsits together you would certainly end up with a list having WOW ranked much higher than EVE.
Terranid Meester	Posted - 2006.08.09 19:42:00 - [83] And, is that supposed to make a difference? It doesn't particularly make a difference but it must be doing something right by making people aware of it surely? One thing I do know is that judging something by a once a year top 100 list is a pretty poor thing to do.
DirtyHarry Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.09 19:46:00 - [84] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/08/2006 19:10:02 Originally by: DirtyHarry I don't see why people cry so much about WoW, it is a very good game which has such a vast number of subscribers due to it suiting alot of casual players whom have never bought an MMO before. I've never understood how a game that requires you to spend solid chunks of 3-6 hours just to participate in raids could ever be considered a "casual" game. If you want the real high end gear that is true, however you do not have to go after that. There is plenty of decent BOE epics available from quests and drops and also that tier 0.5 crap they introduced a while back, some people are even happy enough with BG epics from AV/AB or blues from BRS/BRD/DM/Strat/Scholo etc. Havocide - DirtyHarry
arbitrary Bad luck Clover Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.09 19:48:00 - [85] Edited by: arbitrary on 09/08/2006 19:50:10 Originally by: Dark Shikari And god, if you consider power metal one of the worst things to come out of humanity... you better not turn on your radio, or else your brain might explode . 98% of rock music I hear is far worse than power metal, so I doubt you would come out alive. Again depends on taste, besides I only listen to various shows on radio, never "on radio" in general, so I'm spared the worst parts; so honestly I have no idea what is playing on general radio Quote: Put simply, Power Metal = Rock/metal + Someone who can actually sing + Melodic, uplifting sound (rather than stuff that makes you want to kill yourself). Thus, if you don't like power metal, you either don't like good singing, don't like a melodic sound, or you don't like rock in the first place, in which case half of the world of music is pretty much shut off to you. The sum of all parts, I can't stand daydreaming rock, my rock is supposed to be gritty and hard, not pondering about high castles and heros. So I love good sining, opera, soul and vocal jazz being three important corners of my music tree; I love thy uplifting gospel or happy folk; I love thy rock, Chuck Berry, Elvis, Costello etc, not to mention thy harder parts like Dillinger Escape Plan, Refused, Carcass, Napalm Death, Nasum - not to mention the rock spawned electronica. For some reason though I just can't stand the sum you so seem to love, I don't like that fact, simply loving all kinds of music would be so much better, but some fundamental part of me says no (to progressive metal/rock and other "clean" rock as well). My best understanding of my own feelings in this regard is as said above; I want it gritty (and dirty). Oh and we are both of topic - Note I would defend power metal if someone was saying that "it is crap, and no one can say otherwise", because I know that some find it just to their liking; so to go back on track I would defend those that like WoW, simply let them even if you can't understand it at all, or how we find our plesure is always relative. [EDIT] fixed the last part. ___ Arbi all I want is for you to smile.
tttststststststst	Posted - 2006.08.09 20:03:00 - [86] Edited by: tttststststststst on 09/08/2006 20:03:51 TOP 10 GAMES OF ALL TIME 1.Mechwarrior 2.FVII 3.Phantasy star 4.rome total war 5.Warhammer 6.EVE 7.Counter strike 8.Half life 2 9.Syndacate 10.WOW It's a strage list, but those games, i have enjoyed the most, there are so many outhers i liked, but these stand out.
Fanchon	Posted - 2006.08.09 20:57:00 - [87] I can't believe that, in a thread more or less about top games, that nobody has mentioned System Shock. My faith in humanity has finally been destroyed. Prepare your bladder for imminent release!
Wendat Huron Lupus Industries	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:00:00 - [88] Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant Here's their top ten: 1. Oblivion 2. Half-Life 2 (+ ep2) 3. Deus Ex 4. BF2 5. WoW 6. Civilization IV 7. Rome: Total War 8. Thief: Deadly Shadows 9. GTA: San Andreas 10. The Sims 2 nuff said No Boulderdash, Enter the Ninja, Shogun, X-Com Terror From The Deep, Red Alert 2, sure all the best games has been done in the last few years, really...
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:06:00 - [89] Originally by: Ga'len My question is where did Diablo, Warcraft, Starcraft, etc...end up. Here ya go: Diablo 2: #61 Warcraft III: #24 Starcraft: #68
Kyozoku Loot	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:15:00 - [90] morrowind > oblivion
Debolika Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:18:00 - [91] Edited by: Debolika on 09/08/2006 21:17:58 Quote: The sum of all parts, I can't stand daydreaming rock, my rock is supposed to be gritty and hard, not pondering about high castles and heros. So I love good sining, opera, soul and vocal jazz being three important corners of my music tree; I love thy uplifting gospel or happy folk; I love thy rock, Chuck Berry, Elvis, Costello etc, not to mention thy harder parts like Dillinger Escape Plan, Refused, Carcass, Napalm Death, Nasum - not to mention the rock spawned electronica. [EDIT] fixed the last part. Heartwork is one of the best metal albums of all time... Some of my favorites include: Nothingface, Voivod (Phobos album especially, Samael (one of those electronic hybrids you spoke of)... Lately, I have been listening to a lot of LD 50 once again, what a great album... Can anyone please explain to me why Mudvayne's following albums all suck gonads? What was this topic about again? Oh yeah, WoW sucks, EVE rocks... 400x120@24000 bytes Max. -Capsicum
dantes inferno Caldari Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:24:00 - [92] Quote: Alpha Centauri is most definitely superior to Civilization 4 in nearly every way except graphics. And even graphics-wise its pretty nice. firstly...ds your smoking something...civ is one of the greatest games of all time!!! and secondly..the reason that WOW has millions more players than eve is as follows: 1) the game was based on a popular brand name which was already established 2) the game has massive marketing 3) the game is incredibly simple to play..most gamers aint got the patiente to learn to play eve...nor to be frank the intelect to comprehend the beuaty of the game. WOW caters to the lowest denomenator..eve dont. and saying a game is better due to the fact it has more players is a stupid thing to say _____ They were monsters. They rode across the world we knew and brough terror, and death. Where they were, life ceased. They were without mercy. They were without fear - They were MASS
Martin Mckenna Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:48:00 - [93] Originally by: Boonaki What was number 1? Pacman 2006 pure mental ultra bang edition
Quincy TawHarr	Posted - 2006.08.09 23:00:00 - [94] Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant #1 was Oblivion. At least Eve went up a few places and WoW dropped a few... Unreal, Oblivion? As someone else said, Daggerfall was better. For that matter Ultima 6 was pretty wild too. I would've thought something like Starcraft, Civilization, SimCity or perhaps Half-Life. I'm actually not a big fan of SC but those are games that defined PC Gaming and set bars higher. But once again graphics over gameplay..... Oh well, that's why these lists usually suck.
Itzena Amarr OtakuDyne Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.09 23:14:00 - [95] Firstly - congrats to CCP for doing so well in the chart! And then... Originally by: Aodha Khan Originally by: Commoner I don't get this one, in all fairness WoW is an extremely smooth game, both in terms of relability and performance, and it's virtually bug free. Still, a basic, limited MMORPG thats 'reliable' and 'bug free' shouldn't justify it getting to no.5 on the best games of all time. If making MMOGs is so easy, why aren't there more six million plus subscriber games out there? WoW is a solid, well-designed game and hating it because it's popular is puerile in the extreme. -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
Stamm Amarr GALAXIAN	Posted - 2006.08.09 23:15:00 - [96] The following games MUST be on any list. Dungeon Master Jet Set Willy (Or Manic Miner) Populous The Sentinel Speedball 2 Laser Squad (or Lords of Chaos) Ultima IV (or IV, or VII pt 2) Super Mario Bros Another World Dungeon Keeper (or II) EssexMUD Sim City Civilisation (or II, III, IV, or Alpha Centauri, or Colonisation) There's probably more I forgot...
Xrak Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.09 23:34:00 - [97] Why has no one mentioned the easter egg flying ufo game in Excel 97? That was awesome, got me kicked out of several ICT lessons.
Jurushy SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2006.08.10 00:02:00 - [98] Well my Toplist is 1. Frontier Elite 2. Pirates 3. Civilisation I 4. Die Siedler 5. Monky Island 2 6. Indiana Jones 3 7. Indiana Jones 4 8. Wing Commander 9. Wing Commander 4 10. Max Payne 11. Command and Conquer Red Alert 12. Command and Conquer Tiberium Conflict 13. Civilisation 2 14. Die siedler 2 15. Master of Orion 2 16. Imperium Galaktica 17. Conflict Freespace The Great War 18. Conflict freespace 2 19. EvE-online 20. Gandia 21. Nexus The Jupiter Conflict 22. Diablo 2 23. Warcraft 2 24. Navyfield 25. Imperium Galactica 2 26. Freelancer 27. Oblivion 28. Final Fantasy X 29. Final Fantasy X-2 30. Grandia 2 31. Dark age of Camelot 32. Pirates of the Caribbion 33. World of Pirates 34. Anno 1602 35. Sim City 36. Star Trek Armada 37. Star Trek Armada 2 38. GTA 39. Final Fantasy X-2 40. Risiko . . . . . . . . . . infinite . WoW
Krayl Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.08.10 01:37:00 - [99] Edited by: Krayl on 10/08/2006 01:38:52 I don't have a copy of the relevant PCG, but last time I read their yearly top 100 there were certain rules, such as only the most recent game of a series will be considered, or that a series is only considered as a whole. Thus Half-life won't be on there if half-life 2 is (tbh this is a good thing as it saves the list from crowding by long series). Another rule was that there are only games released/reviewed since PCG began publication, so of course Tetris/pacman won't be in there. Best option is to read the whole list ignoring the numbers, see if there's any gems you've missed over the years. Not like a person will like all genres anyway. Of course I would expect everyone here to disagree over EVE not being 1st :P I'm sure the people on the oblivion forums would argue against you :P I, indeed, share the former view, I've not played any new pc games since I started EVE, though still play console ones I think are interesting. As for people saying things like Doom, etc, should be on there, because of orginality: I sure as hell can't be bothered to play stuff like that anymore... it's just so old. There's a reason why people take other ideas and run with them; to try and produce something better. As for people saying non-PC games (eg. mario). Um? You know it's a PC Games magazine? :P :P :P 30 for EVE is higher than I would have expected. Not even sure it was on the list one or two years back.
Reiisha Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2006.08.10 03:25:00 - [100] Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant 1. Oblivion 2. Half-Life 2 (+ ep2) 3. Deus Ex 4. BF2 5. WoW 6. Civilization IV 7. Rome: Total War 8. Thief: Deadly Shadows 9. GTA: San Andreas 10. The Sims 2 Oblivion, BF2, WoW, Thief, GTA and Sims don't belong in there. They're just graphics updates from previous games. Oblivion is still not as good as Daggerfall was, and that last one shouldn't be in the top 10 yet because of other issues. Still, where is Daggerfall? BF2 is just a shooter with big maps and vehicles. If i recall correctly, BF2 is a retail version of the Desert Combat mod for 1942, and that game was already a modified version of Starsiege: Tribes. Which makes me wonder, where is Tribes? WoW is just a refined version of Diablo 2, nothing more, nothing less. Thief: DS is a UE2 update from thief 1, which wasn't even that good a game. Deus Ex is a lot better and represents everything Thief also stands for. While Thief is a good game, it doesn't belong in the top 100. GTA:SA is just an expansion of the original GTA, which still has my preference over the newer ones. GTA has become not much mroe than a money milking machine, and if they don't come up with something more substantial than a sandbox with minigames, it'll be game over for GTA - not in it's next iteration, but definately in the one after. That being said, where is the original GTA? Then, the Sims 2. That just has to be a big, ridiculous joke. The Sims is a gimmick more than it is a game, if you ask me. There are no goals, and getting your characters to go to the toilet once every 2 minutes is getting boring very, very fast. In it's place, i would actually like to see a game like Creatures, which has the same concept, only much more elaborate and centered on what actually matters (the characters). That, and the creatures aren't stupid enough to need someone telling them they ahve to go to the bathroom. It's sad, i like Will Wright, but i hate the sims for these reasons - and i don't think it deserves a top 100 spot. Then the rest: HL2, DX, civ IV and Rome: HL2 feeds on the success and groundwork of HL1. HL2 adds less to the gameworld than HL1 did, and therefore, HL1 should get HL2's spot. Very easy to understand me thinks. Deus Ex is a game that deserves the #1 spot, in my eyes. It was not the first in it's concept: Uprising was the first to meld game genres, Battlezone followed, but Deus Ex was the first real success in doing so. It had everything you could want from a game, at least at that time - it was nigh perfect, save for the graphics and some small gameplay limitations. Civ IV is not the game that should be there, that should be either Civ 1 or Colonization (preferably the first), for obvious reasons. Rome is actually the only one that has it's spot about right, although i'd put it a bit lower. It's more of a niche game than anything else, and it's rather inaccessible for people whodon't know exactly what they're in for. for the rest, where in the list is Battlezone, Starsiege Tribes, MechWarrior 2: Mercenaries, Doom 1, Ultima (any), Populous 1/2, SimCity 2000, Unreal.... It seems to me that PCG made a hash of it and let 12 year olds decide on what games go on the list.
Reiisha Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2006.08.10 03:27:00 - [101] Originally by: Krayl I don't have a copy of the relevant PCG, but last time I read their yearly top 100 there were certain rules, such as only the most recent game of a series will be considered, or that a series is only considered as a whole. Bad thing, really. I could agree on putting only 1 game of a series in there, but if that should be so, why not mention the game that made the actual difference? Cutting back to later iterations will just make people wonder wtf they're on about, like Thief or Civ IV.
Scoundrelus The Black Fleet Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.10 03:28:00 - [102] Originally by: Aodha Khan Originally by: Brutor Shaun World of Warcraft? A whole page and placed number 5 Unbelievable. There is NOTHING that makes WoW a top 5 MMORPG never mind a top 5 game. Didn't your mother ever tell you that idiots in numbers can affect ratings? ===============================================
Cadiz Caldari Blood Moon Horde	Posted - 2006.08.10 03:30:00 - [103] Edited by: Cadiz on 10/08/2006 03:34:24 Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant #1 was Oblivion. ... They fail, and they fail hard. "Ooo lookit me I'm all sleek and sexy...and beatable in 6 hours due to my lack of deep or challenging content!" Daggerfall remains my favourite Elder Scrolls game due to the sheer mind-boggling scope, and Morrowind is certainly a more engaging game than Oblivion despite the arguably inferior gameplay mechanics. Its great triumph was setting and atmosphere - something that Oblivion is woefully unremarkable in. Oh yay, Cyrodiil...it feels like every other "generic fantasy empire-kingdom #7742" I've ever seen. I don't even know what I'd put down as my all-time #1 game. Would probably either be Starcraft for terms of sheer perfection at integrating all aspects of game design, Total Annihilation for uniquely visionary design, or Planescape: Torment for thoroughly peerless storywriting and characterization. But certainly not Oblivion! Yeesh. ------ Director, Blood Moon Horde "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."
Ediot Gallente Eve University The Big Blue	Posted - 2006.08.10 03:55:00 - [104] I dont see Fallout in the top 10; obviously whoever made the list doesnt actually play games (or they are 16 years old...). P.S. can we just let go of the WOW bashing?
Cadiz Caldari Blood Moon Horde	Posted - 2006.08.10 04:19:00 - [105] Originally by: Ediot I dont see Fallout in the top 10; obviously whoever made the list doesnt actually play games (or they are 16 years old...). P.S. can we just let go of the WOW bashing? I just got around to replaying Fallout I and II last week. I still grin like a lunatic every time I critically hit somebody in the eyes with a turbo plasma rifle for 230-odd damage and cause the flesh to melt off their bones and collect in a goopy pile on the ground. God, I love the Fallout games. ------ Director, Blood Moon Horde "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."
Rakeris Legio VIII	Posted - 2006.08.10 05:19:00 - [106] Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant 1. Oblivion 2. Half-Life 2 (+ ep2) 3. Deus Ex 4. BF2 5. WoW 6. Civilization IV 7. Rome: Total War 8. Thief: Deadly Shadows 9. GTA: San Andreas 10. The Sims 2 From what I've seen it had to have been quite rigged...IMHO only 3 of those games should even be there. Thief: Deadly Shadows, Half-Life 2 and Deus Ex, I never got into the sims...so can't say anything there. Oblivion: It was a great game but Daggerfall and Morrowind where better. BF2: meh, might be fun if I was able to get broadband.... WoW: not even going there. Played the game, not playing it anymore. As grind fests are so much fun. Civilization IV: I was planning on buying the game...so until then I can't really say anything. Rome: Total War: A great game but HORRIBLE, I repeat HORRIBLE support by CA, unless it has changed massively since the first year of release, which I find unlikely. The game was great, but had so many huge flaws, that where never addressed or even acknowledged by the devs. Like I said, unless it had changed....I never went back to see as it left such a bad taste in my mouth. --------
Hub Quantum Dark Synergy Inc. Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.10 06:29:00 - [107] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/08/2006 19:10:02 Originally by: DirtyHarry I don't see why people cry so much about WoW, it is a very good game which has such a vast number of subscribers due to it suiting alot of casual players whom have never bought an MMO before. I've never understood how a game that requires you to spend solid chunks of 3-6 hours just to participate in raids could ever be considered a "casual" game. Most people who play WoW will never enter a 40 person raid instance, much like how most people in Eve will never be in a node crashing 200 on 200 fleet battle or run a 10/10 plex. All are tremendously not fun and are oriented for the hardcore player who thinks wasting a few hours to have a 2% chance at an item or locking down a gate for a week to stop a support fleet are worthwhile goals. Wow is a hell of a lot more accessible than Eve, that's why its successful. Moreover, the notion that advertising alone seperates wow from eve is laughable. Look at SOE's advertising campaign for EQ2. They showed not only TV ads, but movie trailers as well that showed in front of several summer blockbusters, their advertising campaign was easily several fold the cost of what WOW was and EQ2 was an abyssmal failure and an embarassment to SOE.

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