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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.09 23:37:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Mistress Suffering
Most forms of EVE warfare have the (unstated) goal of making your target play less. You restrict their movement, destroy their assets, and generally make their gametime as incapacitated as possible. As morale drops, people play less, until at some point they set it aside and cease playing.
It may be the consequence sometimes, but I wouldn't say that it's the goal. You oviously try to reduce the freedom, how your opponent can play the game, sometimes even try to break his morale. That's just required. But it's usually nothing personal to drive someone out of the game. He could just retreat from the conflict and then he would be left alone.
If he chooses quit instead, well, then that's sad, but it's his problem, since we can't do territorial warfare and things like that in a way that everyone feels happy and confident all the time and gets what he wants.
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steveid
Penetrate
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Posted - 2006.08.09 23:39:00 -
[32]
most of the "make them quit" stratergies are based around the destruction of player formed structures such as alliances. I can think of a few individuals that will attract constant war decs regardless of corp (azumi blade for one), but tbh this isn't so hard to get around. Changing your char via the forums is probably the most secure way.
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Faith Rose
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.10 00:04:00 -
[33]
Well hounding a group day-in/day-out is something damn near every alliance has done from day one, but it can turn all wrong when hounding turns into out right griefing.
But as someone said earlyer: you can't make them quit, just make things very stressfull.
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It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected. |
Qayos
Eve Defence Force
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.10 00:56:00 -
[34]
What are you supposed to do to corp theives? Just say oh well? Are you not allowed to retaliate with force you deem appropriate against those who wrong you in some way? It's called accountability, you **** someone off bad enough, you reap the consequences. Simple.
Just because a corp theif changes corps doesnt give you back the stuff he stole from you does it? So you should be free to pursue your target wherever he may go.
Corp theft is just one example, I'm sure there are other things you can do to **** someone off to this extent. Whatever it is, if they deem you worthy of hunting, they should be free to hunt you. If you don't want to be hunted, don't do stuff that ****es people off to this level, else it's really your own doing. Face up to your own actions instead of asking CCP to correct or protect your own damn transgressions.
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Randay
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.08.10 01:46:00 -
[35]
Fair.
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Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums. |
TressX
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Posted - 2006.08.10 02:45:00 -
[36]
In EVE, as in any game, a no-holds barred approach is not only ethical, but encouraged. It helps to keep people from being complete and utter *******s and ****ing off the entire galaxy by thinking twice before speaking, smacktalking, or ****ing in the cornflakes of a neighboring Alliance, corporation, or faction. Simply put, for those who are capable and willing to essentially 'grief' another player out of the game, it is considered a 'natural selection' in the grand-esque scheme of territorial control and political manipulation. Vengeance is a powerful drive, if you don't have the abilities to exact it, Trinity Nova can help!
http://www.trinitynova.co.uk
May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. |
Waagaa Ktlehr
Amarr
Fluffy wing Fangs
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Posted - 2006.08.10 03:46:00 -
[37]
In EVE, your actions have consequences, it's a pure PvP game which means if you act like a tard in public / game / on the forums someone bigger than you can get ****ed off and decide to exterminate you.
So, if you managed to do something that made people so angry (in-game) that they are going for total extermination I think you probably deserved it.
This isn't some forum where the Internet will protect you. Be a tard on these forums and it will effect you or your organization in-game. Especially if you **** off the wrong people. :)
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A lapdance is always better when the exotic dancer is crying.. |
Willis Drummond
Lordless
Unbrella Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.10 04:05:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr
In EVE, your actions have consequences, it's a pure PvP game which means if you act like a tard in public / game / on the forums someone bigger than you can get ****ed off and decide to exterminate you.
So, if you managed to do something that made people so angry (in-game) that they are going for total extermination I think you probably deserved it.
This isn't some forum where the Internet will protect you. Be a tard on these forums and it will effect you or your organization in-game. Especially if you **** off the wrong people. :)
Your point stands but it doesn't take being a tard to receive in-game consequences. There are enough insecure little space warriors around here that disagreeing with someone or not stroking their ego will do it too.
I wouldn't have it any other way but let's not delude ourselves into thinking that only people who act like jackasses are the ones who have faced retribution.
Awesome Post# 716543 |
Tarkan Kador
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.08.10 04:29:00 -
[39]
Interesting to see the replies, but I have a feeling that the ones that deserve to be hounded out of EVE with no refund aren't going to be the ones that will get hurt by a "no holds barred" griefing system. If they are already are sneaky, powerful, and malicious enough to offend you, then chances are they are sneaky, powerful, and malicious enough to stay in EVE in some capacity.
Its more interesting to look at the ones that are good people and don't do anything wrong, yet are hounded anyway for stupid reasons by stupid people. They'll simply go elsewhere, and more power to them.
I guess its natural selection. Other communities will benefit from those good folk, while we are just stuck with the idiots and tools who chased them away.
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Breaky Uzumaki
Caldari
The Greater Goon
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Posted - 2006.08.10 04:48:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
its not the bob/goon event, as we never stated to stal them out of the game,
only out of their alliance/0.0.
so whgat event do u mean?
and incase that case rlly exists, petition it.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=371344&page=2#55
"We do not want that mindset or culture as part of this community" for starters. There have been many BoB posts about driving Goons out of Eve proper, unfortunately many of those threads are now deleted. The whole "driving out of 0.0 space" started after you got the war drums going enough and had the gate camps set up. Maybe then you realized the rhetoric was coming on a little too strong and the backpedaling started.
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Montague Zooma
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.10 04:56:00 -
[41]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Of course, if you feel like quitting is your only recourse then you either:
- take the game way too seriously 
- are weak of mind
- or don't really like playing EVE to begin with
Anyone trying to hound another player out of the game is taking the game way too damn seriously. It's definitely "get a life" time.
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Ather Ialeas
Viziam
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Posted - 2006.08.10 05:22:00 -
[42]
I've had this debate just a few days ago, the conclusion was that no matter what people think of it, nothing good comes from it. Examples:
1) The other side wins and become proverbial kings of the game. Too bad kings are nothing without pawns which they themselves had to eradicate to get to the high position in the first place. This is the most likely scenario.
2) The other side actually quits the game completely. Financially that's a blow to the game developer since if all the sudden you lose, say, 5% of your gamers that means you get -5% income and all the sudden the game developer can't hire new people to do amazing stuff for them because they just can't afford it. As far as business plans go, imagine if on top of that some recent extension to new markets would for some reason fail completely making it a money sink for game developer pushing the company economically even further away from financial stability.
The latter is the main reason why I actually hate every single alliance in this game. At the moment I see nothing good that can come out of this community and every now and then I'm utterly disgusted by people's actions ingame mainly because while this is just a game, I firmly believe that if you're evil ingame, you are at least somewhat evil in real life too. I'm not saying that pirates ingame are thieves in real life, I'm just saying that they're ready to take the next step to get what they want and that step most certainly won't be for greater good.
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I'm not an alt. |
Niding
Polaris Project
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Posted - 2006.08.10 05:30:00 -
[43]
Most of the responses in this thread is based on EVE gameplay/alliance relations etc...
But this response below caught my eye, and noone seemed to pick up on it..
Internet stalkers are a growning problem and should be taken seriously.
The example at hand didnt seem to get out of hand in RL thankfully, but the actions of this guy seems troubleing by any rate. Not coz he makes her/her friends ships go boom, but of his anti sosial quality.
Originally by: Yavanna
I remember a girl in a corp i used to be in was constantly getting harrased by some guy who wanted her to go on a date with him, and had been war deccing and generally harassing every corp she'd joined up to that point (after they had been in corp togetehr initially)
After many petitions against his harassment ccp gave her and her old corp warnings for constantly petitioning the guy as he wasn't breaking the game rules
Fortunatly we where in a large alliance at the time so the pathetic scrub couldn't touch us
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oodin
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2006.08.10 05:45:00 -
[44]
if he was a rl stalker then that matter would be fixed very fast.arrange for them to date then bring a baseball bat with you and some ducktape.
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Dagam
Dagam Corp
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Posted - 2006.08.10 05:52:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Montague Zooma
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Of course, if you feel like quitting is your only recourse then you either:
- take the game way too seriously
- are weak of mind
- or don't really like playing EVE to begin with
Anyone trying to hound another player out of the game is taking the game way too damn seriously. It's definitely "get a life" time.
Agreed.
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Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.10 06:21:00 -
[46]
If you assume it's a "get the person(s) to quit Eve" matter then yes, it is at least questionable.
If you assume that it's about making the behaviour "quit" the game, with a possible side-effect (but not the main goal) being that the person(s) that displayed the behaviour in the first place quit(s) the game in the process, then it is not (imo).
Your behaviour when playing the game (in a broad sense that also includes the times when you are discussing it and its politics), is part of the gameplay.
As such, declaring war over someone's behaviour is totally fitting for the game and there's nothing unacceptable about it. In fact, within the background of a sub-society of post-human pod pilots that cannot die it is a great wonder that not every uninvited remark is enough to inspire a large fight. What's there to lose after all but time, and what's time when you are immortal ?
More specifically to your example. It is not allowed within Eve to harass individual players. That means that any situation as described where you follow an inmdividual from corp to corp, place to place unrelentlessly and proceed to make his gameplay impossible by means that are only directed at him personally (no matter wether allowed or not as a means), it *can* constitute harass ment and (yes here it comes !) griefing.
It's up to a GM to decide about that.
However, as far as I am aware no case of persecution of a group of players for ingame (=game-related) reasons will ever lead to a harassment ruling. If the reasons are right and not just frivolouos, then it wouldn't worry me personally either.
Old blog |
Tarkan Kador
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.08.10 07:11:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
If you assume it's a "get the person(s) to quit Eve" matter then yes, it is at least questionable.
If you assume that it's about making the behaviour "quit" the game, with a possible side-effect (but not the main goal) being that the person(s) that displayed the behaviour in the first place quit(s) the game in the process, then it is not (imo).
This is reasonable.
However, if somebody is trying to make the offensive conduct quit, then when the conduct quits, the aggressor has no more game related reason to continue the aggression.
The longer the aggression goes on when the motive is no longer applicable, the less it looks like a game related aggression, and the more it looks like a harassment against the player.
These are grey areas. Of course, as you have said, that is why we have a petition system.
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Obivan Efa
The Machines
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Posted - 2006.08.10 07:13:00 -
[48]
One of the best side of EVE is the possibility to punish ur offender... if u have strength enough..
If u DOW ur opponent u don't need his permission to fight as in other games... and death in EVE is a painfull loss ... such things make ppl more responsible.
There are a lot of pilots that represent minor powers in EVE.. they don't have as much possibilities to defend themself..
But EVE is a cruel world and u had to know how to fight.
I hope that new Bounty Hunting system will give much more chances for minor pilots to avange..
The current system is unfair sometimes but it shouldn't be nerfed - it's the best system among all known MMORPG... 'couse of it we like EVE.
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Die, but perish! - viking's war-cry |
Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.10 08:04:00 -
[49]
Eve does not have pizza.
Eve does have NPC who will tell you where players are.
If locator agents are not there to facilitate pizza delivery, maybe they have a more sinister role to play?
As CCP added those agents, surely they think that their services are a 'good thing', and thus support the darker side of Eve?
Or ... player pizza is comming in Kali!
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Kcel Chim
Caldari
Arcane Technologies
The Five
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Posted - 2006.08.10 08:39:00 -
[50]
i already gave a reply in the other thread about this subject regarding "the incident". Ill not bother to retype it, just read my 2 replies on page 16
here
In short it is impossible to selectively make 1 individual quit. You can destroy a group of ppl and force them to split, you can destroy their ingame achievements and iskbase but u can not force them to quit. They might given the pressure applied to them but that can and has happened to every mission runner who loses his 45eleventy billion caldari navy raven to a gank. Tough luck, ultimately it is always the players choice to find ways to cope or to throw the toys while walking away.
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Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.10 09:11:00 -
[51]
Making someone quit is impossible, making someone's life as horrible as possible is possible but tends to be difficult enough to do that only those that deserve it will receive it. ANd if it's undeserved, petitioning it can be a option.
Against a corp/alliance though anything goes really, that's war.
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.10 10:28:00 -
[52]
In response to the original post:
What if the original offence was repeated multiple times, by multiple members of the offending alliance, even after the offense was brought to their attention??
*snip*
This type of comment has no place in a signature, please remain courteous - Pirlouit
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Audrea
Widowmakers
Novus Ordos Seclorum
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Posted - 2006.08.10 10:35:00 -
[53]
I dont think its right to say, that CCP can judge whose harrasing is just and whose is not.
I think harrassing is only when you keep trying to kill a char even in npc corp. only then it can constitute a harrasing.
I am not certain, but I think I read somewhere that in such cases, CCP solves it by allowing the char to be renamed once and 'disappear' to somewhere else...
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Tired of fleet combat lag? -Post HERE
All posts are my personal opinions.  |
Buxaroo
Quantum Industries
Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2006.08.10 11:13:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Qayos
What are you supposed to do to corp theives? Just say oh well? Are you not allowed to retaliate with force you deem appropriate against those who wrong you in some way? It's called accountability, you **** someone off bad enough, you reap the consequences. Simple.
Just because a corp theif changes corps doesnt give you back the stuff he stole from you does it? So you should be free to pursue your target wherever he may go.
Corp theft is just one example, I'm sure there are other things you can do to **** someone off to this extent. Whatever it is, if they deem you worthy of hunting, they should be free to hunt you. If you don't want to be hunted, don't do stuff that ****es people off to this level, else it's really your own doing. Face up to your own actions instead of asking CCP to correct or protect your own damn transgressions.
100% agreed. That's the thing about this game. What you do in EVE will have long lasting effects in the future. That's whats great about this game and what makes it trully unique. You die, you loose your ship and mods, sometimes your implants. You do something really ****ty like corp theft you get a very bad reputation and loose trust and respect. All part of the game. And if a corp or alliance has got you targeted for these kinds of tactics then you must have really done something to dishonor them and deserve your you just rewards.
To me it's all about honor, even though its a game.
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CEO Rockhound
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.08.10 11:45:00 -
[55]
The mouth of a single player on these forums, have caused the downfall of several alliances.
There have been people that have bought chars of Eve-O, on a nice and legal way (with regard to Eula), and found that they get LOTS of hatemail, gets they're corp war dec'd, gets they're corp booted from alliance they are in etc etc.
imo, that is totaly valid.
if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
Norsk Gruvedrift.
We will rock you. |
Loka
Gallente
adeptus gattacus
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.10 11:52:00 -
[56]
Anyone remembering FA forbidding their member to post on EVE-O forums with their main 
_________________________
Iam back
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Shimpu
Asgard Schiffswerften
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.08.10 11:54:00 -
[57]
It's foul. But no one pushes anyone toward quitting the game. That's a myth and false interpretation. They just 'convince' you to change regions, change alliance and/or corp. The players from all those dead alliances are still around. Some of them are working on a new r.i.s.e (pun intended) of their power and others just do stuff they like.
There's no reason to whine about Goons (and this thread is all about Goons imho) getting treated unfair. The entity Goons isn't welcome in this game because of the actions of their leader and some of their members. In fact I heard several times myself how the goal of the Goons as an entity is to ruin MMO games for other people just because it's fun. No false mercy for them.
About the individual players in Goonswarm: There are nice people with the goons. I had some really entertaining and good chats with some of them. The problem is the average Goon from SA that is just here to bring havoc and insult people and be a smartass. The sane people in Goonswarm that actually like this game and aren't just here to ruin another MMO and insult people should just leave to other corps and alliances and everything would be fine. If they don't want to, it's their problem because then they have to live with excessive siege and 'hate'. You get associated with the entity you align with. Easy as that!
Originally by: Unknown Scout
"ze scoud ffrom xzy, hSs a geighz aggdi...,eeeeeehhhmmmmm, somesing is jambing halt, sree hospitalized incoming." |
Jobie Thickburger
Gallente
Miner Guide to the Galaxy
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Posted - 2006.08.10 12:22:00 -
[58]
I see where your coming form here, Although I can't admit that such tatics have really been used AFAIK, altough I'm sure its been threatend.
Really though, it seems like its a lot of trouble to hunt down a person in this situation. If you had the manpower of an alliance behind you, Ok mabey that would work, But still, There's plenty of places to hide out in Eve, and if that person joins a small corp, What does an alliance wardec mean if he's hiding on the other side of the universe?
Is it a leagel tatic? I think so. Is it "Nice?" No, but what in an PVP game is? Usually a hunt like this is to tear apart something completly, Such as BOB is (or is trying) to do with the Goons, Destroy the alliance, so that they are no longer a threat. Most people should't take things seriously enough to go through that much hassle.
And besides, there's always the "Join the Big Bad Alliance" Method... Bob sends out the ultimatum, Join an LV Corp, ETC...
CEO - MGTTG
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Lag Fest
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.10 12:33:00 -
[59]
if i rememmber correctly goons were the ones bragging how they could take on BoB. oh yeah i forgot.. this was supposed to be all hypothetical or whatever.
P.S. u should be happy if someone pwns u like that. that way u get rid of the trash who arent there for the corp but their own buttocks
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Keepint it BNC-style.. Be Afraid, be very afraid...
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quellious
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.08.10 13:42:00 -
[60]
Sadly, getting people to play less and eventually quiting eve-online is the only valid way to win any sort of ingame conflict. (you can also say often and loud that you won until eve community trust you, but victory was not acheived ingame).
It think this way to fight (a bit personnal) is linked to game mechanism. It's generally admitted that eve power comes from number of players, and time spend online, and not about number of ships killed/loss. One can always hide some industry in NPC faction and built/send ship remplacement. Any well motivated group of people can survive any sized alliance if that keep playing the same time, whatever the tag they have.
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> Order Falcon & Pilgrim
> Colsup |
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