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"Make Them Quit" Tactics: Fair or Foul?

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Devilish Ledoux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.08.09 20:49:00 - [1] Due to some current events (for the sake of debate, pretend that you don't know which events), I thought it would be good to have a discussion about whether or not it should be considered acceptable for one alliance/corp to work towards a goal of making another alliance/corp/individual player quit Eve. A "make them quit" strategy is defined as a conflict that isn't about territory, mining rights, money, fun, etc. It would instead be a conflict where one side has an exclusive goal of making Eve so unpalatable for the other side that they will quit playing. Fortunately, many tactics that would be used by a group working towards such a goal are either explicitly forbidden or it is possible for the target to work around them. So it's arguable that most "make them quit" strategies are doomed to fail. However, consider the following scenario (which has probably happened at some point, but I'm not aware of it): A player does something that is not against the terms of service and does not violate any game rules. However, he angers the members of another corporation/alliance. The offended group retaliates by declaring war on the individual's corporation/alliance. The individual leaves the corporation/alliance to spare his friends. The angered group then declares (publicly or not) that ANY corporation that this individual joins will be immediately wardecced for as long as that individual is a member, or even if the group is suspected of working with the target. The offended group would take it a step further by paying handsomely for intelligence regarding this individual's whereabouts so that he can be hounded no matter where he goes. For the sake of argument, assume that this group is wealthy enough to afford to maintain the wardecs, powerful enough to totally outmatch any group that would take in the individual in question, and otherwise capable of hounding the player no matter where he goes. This would effectively make the player a pariah, with no safe harbor and very limited ability to play the game. Of course, this person could also remain a member of an NPC corporation or create a corporation of their own (and then operate somewhere far from his stated headquarters), but they would effectively be confined to a gameplay experience that is far less social than the game was originally intended. If the person in question had become accustomed to a social style of gameplay, this would likely be enough to cause him to leave the game. If the offended group can afford it and is so inclined, he could even be attacked in safe space, so long as the attackers are willing to lose their ships to destroy the target. I'm sure this isn't the only example of a "make them quit" strategy (so please don't critique the strategy itself, only the intent). It may not even work. It's quite possible that the example person could successfully evade the wrath of those he offended and continue to enjoy the game. The choice to leave the game is always left to the target, no matter how much his gameplay experience is hindered. So please discuss: Is it okay to use a strategy specifically designed to make someone quit the game, or is it a violation of the spirit of the rules of the game? The Billionaire Buccaneer (A Blog for the Bored)
Jif Lemming	Posted - 2006.08.09 20:55:00 - [2] Edited by: Jif Lemming on 09/08/2006 20:55:37
Valan	Posted - 2006.08.09 20:56:00 - [3] Apologies wrong char above, new lemming for EVE radio :) It's the only way to really win EVE. The only way to really avoid the tactic is to take a break and hope they forget why they started it. I know people who've been harrassed out of the game, you can petition the GMs but it doesn't help. CCPs loss I guess.
Draximus Cane Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.09 20:56:00 - [4] I think in most cases, one side is looking for the other to reduce its capacity and its availability of the more valuable areas in Eve, and yes this is not only accepatable, but an intention of the game mechanics -------------------------------------------------
Dust Angel True Core	Posted - 2006.08.09 20:56:00 - [5] Most do not have the patience for such an extermination. if the character really has it that bad, he can always sell his character and buy another one. _____________________________________ Stressed out with empire politics? Sansha's Nation helps clear your mind.
dantes inferno Caldari Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:00:00 - [6] there are some instanced where i aplaued tactics of this type..where the player(s) actions seem to focus on distorting the game play and atmosphere in game for the rest...then trying to drive them out is in fact conserving the eve we all know and love. their are instances where the offence is so strong..and the reaction to the offence was uncensere...then again driving him out of the game is something which benefits the comunity on the whole. Tbh as long as it is in the game mechanics and is not griefing or harrasment..then its perfectly legit. _____ They were monsters. They rode across the world we knew and brough terror, and death. Where they were, life ceased. They were without mercy. They were without fear - They were MASS
Sir Juri Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:00:00 - [7] If they publicly announce theyll wardec any corp that harbors this guy and then chase/stalk the guy for weeks/months with no end in every corner of EVE, and smack him 24/7 and more. I would consider that to be griefing. But it also depends on what he did to deserve this hate. damn need to make a new sig...
Vailan Catalyst Reaction Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:02:00 - [8] this scenario sounds familiar to a situation in which my corp was dealing with a while back....its silly but usually its the person that's getting war deced own fault for being a total jerk...The tactic to make them quit eve is totaly a viable one though. Because its very easy to counter, go somewhere else. Eve is huge there's always a place to run away too. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/chaosPhd/Sigs%20or%20Banners/Vailan-Sig.jpg [orange]Max signature size is 400x120 pixels and 24,000 bytes. Email us for questio
Shiwan Khan Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:04:00 - [9] honestly if you are a person who takes a game like this so seriously that, because of some loss of isk in a GAME you decide to quit...well then i suggest you cancel your account, seek counseling, and walk outside in what is commonly known in many circles as "light". And i suppose if all else fails, you can always just go play in the street.... "TO THETR DRUMNBS OF WAR WET GHO" - Buddrow 2005.06.17 07:15:13 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes Nebba Kenezzer [SNRA], wrecking for 2250.9 damage.
Mistress Suffering Einherjar Rising Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:14:00 - [10] EVE is a competitive game that rewards manpower and time played. Most forms of EVE warfare have the (unstated) goal of making your target play less. You restrict their movement, destroy their assets, and generally make their gametime as incapacitated as possible. As morale drops, people play less, until at some point they set it aside and cease playing. If you have a long-term war with someone, then odds are that one or both sides have exactly this goal. Not everyone is as up front about admitting to it, so I would't stress out just because someone shows more honesty than the norm.
Willis Drummond Lordless Unbrella Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:19:00 - [11] Originally by: Shiwan Khan honestly if you are a person who takes a game like this so seriously that, because of some loss of isk in a GAME you decide to quit... Don't be retarded, this isn't about isk it's about a group of people organizing to ruin your playtime by repeatedly killing you and anyone who allows you into their midst. Anyways too many people are going to reply with the current situation in mind and that will entirely bias their responses. Trying to make someone quit the game is perfectly fine, if you ask me. Not very sporting but what in EVE really is? It's not like the 'victim' has no options. Join a rookie corp and fly missions in empire until they forget about you. Buy another character, play an alt, etc. It's absolutely impossible to make a person who wants to quit the game quit without their going along with the plan. Awesome Post# 657522
Rose Kolodny Gallente Space Invaders	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:19:00 - [12] If someone can't take the beating in this game from other players and wants to quit: good bye, play a less competitive game. There are billions of ways to make someone quit, I left the game for a longer break because most players only blob fighted me (alone) and some 3-4 month old chars in Ravens were just too overpowered and I couldn't sustain the losses being someone who liked to fight alone and a lot. Did I cry about it? No. -- Recruiting Video
Jif Lemming	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:23:00 - [13] Edited by: Jif Lemming on 09/08/2006 21:23:08
Yavanna	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:24:00 - [14] I remember a girl in a corp i used to be in was constantly getting harrased by some guy who wanted her to go on a date with him, and had been war deccing and generally harassing every corp she'd joined up to that point (after they had been in corp togetehr initially) After many petitions against his harassment ccp gave her and her old corp warnings for constantly petitioning the guy as he wasn't breaking the game rules Fortunatly we where in a large alliance at the time so the pathetic scrub couldn't touch us
Valan	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:24:00 - [15] Thats twice now, flaming forums! Originally by: Shiwan Khan honestly if you are a person who takes a game like this so seriously that, because of some loss of isk in a GAME you decide to quit...well then i suggest you cancel your account, seek counseling, and walk outside in what is commonly known in many circles as "light". And i suppose if all else fails, you can always just go play in the street.... hmmmm I'm a little confused. If the game isn't fun you quit, it has nothing to do with isk loss. I wouldn't say they need counselling because they're so distraught, they just go do something else. The person that quits isn't bothered because they've quit. They're not interested anymore, they cease to think about EVE at all. They don't start crying because they've lost, they literally don't play because there is nothing to do once logged on. It's the freak that spends countless man hours pursuing an individual that needs counselling. Jumping around home screaming 'I won I've made him leave' that needs help.
DigitalCommunist Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:00:00 - [16] Since you're Caldari Provisions, and a mod will probably come in to lock this thread soon.. I'll keep it somewhat short. Suffice is to say your definition of a "make them quit" strategy is stupid. You can't make someone quit the game. You can cause them grief and sour their gameplay experience by exerting pressure. But even then its no guarantee they'll even leave the corp. In most cases, leaving the corp/alliance thats getting such treatment will end your problems. Worst case scenario, you get hounded in every corp you join, including NPC corps (which is highly unlikely).. all you do is start a new character. Fair? Maybe, maybe not.. If someone wants you that dead, you probably deserve it imo. No random/senseless griefer will go to elaborate lengths and exert such efforts without just cause. Something a certain Mirial found out the hard way. Of course, if you feel like quitting is your only recourse then you either: - take the game way too seriously - are weak of mind - or don't really like playing EVE to begin with Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Rexthor Hammerfists Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:02:00 - [17] ill b so bold to ask this: "for the sake of debate, pretend that you don't know which events" its not the bob/goon event, as we never stated to stal them out of the game, only out of their alliance/0.0. so whgat event do u mean? and incase that case rlly exists, petition it. - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:03:00 - [18] Man, I need to **** someone off so I can be hunted 24/7. No more looking for targets!
thoth foc Destructive Influence	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:06:00 - [19] you mean like 1 alliance/corp/person beating another alliance/corp/person to the point the defeated members go and do something else in the game.. well gee.. when did this get introduced into MMO games.. >: )
Ben Derindar Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:32:00 - [20] My very first battleship in Eve was a scorpion. I had it probably a lot sooner that I ought to, but I was well aware of this at the time and fully expected to get it blown up in short order. No problem, that's what insurance is for. Well, one day I logged on to find that my safespot was busted and my fully insured scorp had been stolen by Slacker Industries (hi Righteous <3). Scratch 90mil, a hell of a lot of isk for a 3-month old player. I didn't play the game for almost two weeks after that. By your definition, Slackers "made me quit" and should therefore be banned from the game. Yep, I thought that sounded kinda silly, too. /Ben
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:42:00 - [21] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Since you're Caldari Provisions, and a mod will probably come in to lock this thread soon.. I'll keep it somewhat short. I'm not an alt. There is no rule against people in NPC corporations from posting in this forum. Nor is posting non-smack discussions. Quote: Suffice is to say your definition of a "make them quit" strategy is stupid. No, it isn't. Quote: You can't make someone quit the game. I agree. I even said that: Originally by: Devilish Ledoux The choice to leave the game is always left to the target, no matter how much his gameplay experience is hindered." It's near the bottom. You can cause them grief and sour their gameplay experience by exerting pressure. But even then its no guarantee they'll even leave the corp. In most cases, leaving the corp/alliance thats getting such treatment will end your problems. I never said it would work. It was the intent I was judging, not the result. Quote: Worst case scenario, you get hounded in every corp you join, including NPC corps (which is highly unlikely).. all you do is start a new character. Fair? Maybe, maybe not.. If someone wants you that dead, you probably deserve it imo. No random/senseless griefer will go to elaborate lengths and exert such efforts without just cause. Something a certain Mirial found out the hard way. Of course, if you feel like quitting is your only recourse then you either: - take the game way too seriously - are weak of mind - or don't really like playing EVE to begin with That last bit is really all you needed to say to get your opinion across. The Billionaire Buccaneer (A Blog for the Bored)
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:43:00 - [22] Originally by: Ben Derindar My very first battleship in Eve was a scorpion. I had it probably a lot sooner that I ought to, but I was well aware of this at the time and fully expected to get it blown up in short order. No problem, that's what insurance is for. Well, one day I logged on to find that my safespot was busted and my fully insured scorp had been stolen by Slacker Industries (hi Righteous <3). Scratch 90mil, a hell of a lot of isk for a 3-month old player. I didn't play the game for almost two weeks after that. By your definition, Slackers "made me quit" and should therefore be banned from the game. Yep, I thought that sounded kinda silly, too. /Ben I'm thinking Slackers wasn't trying to make you quit, there. He just thought, "Hey, free Scorpion." The Billionaire Buccaneer (A Blog for the Bored)
Stamm Amarr GALAXIAN	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:45:00 - [23] You can pull all sorts of horrifically nasty betrayals in Eve. You can empty the corp wallet, steal all the stuff from the hangars. You can give intel to enemies. You can scout out your own miners for them. You can act like an arse so much to get them into trouble. You can make the game unpleasant for other people. The consequences are that your actions are never forgotten, and you'll be persona non gratis for the rest of your Eve career. Corporations, and alliances are the same thing. If you're asking for an Eve where it's not possible to make enemies and to see someone as an enemy forever, then that's not an Eve I want. Hate, grudges, angst, bad blood are part of Eve, for better or for worse. Personally I try not to have them myself, but do I want an Eve where it's not possible? No.
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:47:00 - [24] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists ill b so bold to ask this: "for the sake of debate, pretend that you don't know which events" its not the bob/goon event, as we never stated to stal them out of the game, only out of their alliance/0.0. so whgat event do u mean? and incase that case rlly exists, petition it. If "the events" exist, I'm not involved in them, which is the biggest reason I see no reason to go into them. Whether or not the situation exists at present isn't really relevant to a discussion about whether or not it's a valid strategy for anyone to pursue. How's that for answering your question by not answering it? The Billionaire Buccaneer (A Blog for the Bored)
Nira Li Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:49:00 - [25] If I shoot at someone and they quit because of it, they shouldn't have started to play eve at first tbh. You Will Cry My Name Funny Guys
Ace Garp1 Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:51:00 - [26] Originally by: Willis Drummond Originally by: Shiwan Khan honestly if you are a person who takes a game like this so seriously that, because of some loss of isk in a GAME you decide to quit... Don't be retarded, this isn't about isk it's about a group of people organizing to ruin your playtime by repeatedly killing you and anyone who allows you into their midst. Anyways too many people are going to reply with the current situation in mind and that will entirely bias their responses. Trying to make someone quit the game is perfectly fine, if you ask me. Not very sporting but what in EVE really is? It's not like the 'victim' has no options. Join a rookie corp and fly missions in empire until they forget about you. Buy another character, play an alt, etc. It's absolutely impossible to make a person who wants to quit the game quit without their going along with the plan. i'd sit that char in a starbase in a system where enemy of the people trying to kill me will get a fight every time they log on i would then leave that char sitting there online 23 hours a day skill training for months and play on my other computer with my other account let them sit outside bored sensless waiting for me to come out LOL What the frig can i put here ?
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:52:00 - [27] There's a whole lot of stuff that people moan about how it sucks and is unfair, but has a measure of validity. (I won't go into examples, because I'm fairly sure you are either aware of them, or can find them in about 30 seconds on this forum). However harassing someone until they quit, would seem to be to be the very definition of the term.
Itzena Amarr OtakuDyne Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.09 23:16:00 - [28] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Suffice is to say your definition of a "make them quit" strategy is stupid. You can't make someone quit the game. SirMolle disagrees. -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
JP Moregain Gallente Moregain Guaranty Trust	Posted - 2006.08.09 23:19:00 - [29] Edited by: JP Moregain on 09/08/2006 23:24:07 Originally by: Devilish Ledoux I'm not an alt. There is no rule against people in NPC corporations from posting in this forum. Nor is posting non-smack discussions. Just to confirm from personal experience, Devilish is no forum trolling alt, but rather played extensively with a now essentially defunct Alliance with a reputation as carebearish, which rhymes with Fig Flu I can also confirm that he really probably (never know for sure...) has no axe to grind with either of the inferred but unnamed combatants... I believe he is actually trying to stimulate an interesting discussion, so just go with it guys/gals... "In JP We Trust, All Others Require Collateral..."
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.08.09 23:25:00 - [30] Originally by: JP Moregain Edited by: JP Moregain on 09/08/2006 23:21:05 Originally by: Devilish Ledoux I'm not an alt. There is no rule against people in NPC corporations from posting in this forum. Nor is posting non-smack discussions. Just to confirm from personal experience, Devilish is no forum trolling alt, but rather played extensively with a now essentially defunct Alliance with a reputations as carebearish, which rhymes with Fig Flue I can also confirm that he really probably (never know for sure...) has no axe to grind with either of the inferred but unnamed combatants... I believe he is actually trying to stimulate an interesting discussion, so just go with it guys/gals... Plus I have a blog that's behind on its updates. The Billionaire Buccaneer (A Blog for the Bored)
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.09 23:37:00 - [31] Originally by: Mistress Suffering Most forms of EVE warfare have the (unstated) goal of making your target play less. You restrict their movement, destroy their assets, and generally make their gametime as incapacitated as possible. As morale drops, people play less, until at some point they set it aside and cease playing. It may be the consequence sometimes, but I wouldn't say that it's the goal. You oviously try to reduce the freedom, how your opponent can play the game, sometimes even try to break his morale. That's just required. But it's usually nothing personal to drive someone out of the game. He could just retreat from the conflict and then he would be left alone. If he chooses quit instead, well, then that's sad, but it's his problem, since we can't do territorial warfare and things like that in a way that everyone feels happy and confident all the time and gets what he wants.
steveid Penetrate	Posted - 2006.08.09 23:39:00 - [32] most of the "make them quit" stratergies are based around the destruction of player formed structures such as alliances. I can think of a few individuals that will attract constant war decs regardless of corp (azumi blade for one), but tbh this isn't so hard to get around. Changing your char via the forums is probably the most secure way.
Faith Rose Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.10 00:04:00 - [33] Well hounding a group day-in/day-out is something damn near every alliance has done from day one, but it can turn all wrong when hounding turns into out right griefing. But as someone said earlyer: you can't make them quit, just make things very stressfull. =============================================== It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.
Qayos Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.10 00:56:00 - [34] What are you supposed to do to corp theives? Just say oh well? Are you not allowed to retaliate with force you deem appropriate against those who wrong you in some way? It's called accountability, you ** someone off bad enough, you reap the consequences. Simple. Just because a corp theif changes corps doesnt give you back the stuff he stole from you does it? So you should be free to pursue your target wherever he may go. Corp theft is just one example, I'm sure there are other things you can do to someone off to this extent. Whatever it is, if they deem you worthy of hunting, they should be free to hunt you. If you don't want to be hunted, don't do stuff that **es people off to this level, else it's really your own doing. Face up to your own actions instead of asking CCP to correct or protect your own damn transgressions.
Randay 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.10 01:46:00 - [35] Fair. ------------------------------------------- Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums.
TressX	Posted - 2006.08.10 02:45:00 - [36] In EVE, as in any game, a no-holds barred approach is not only ethical, but encouraged. It helps to keep people from being complete and utter *****s and ing off the entire galaxy by thinking twice before speaking, smacktalking, or **ing in the cornflakes of a neighboring Alliance, corporation, or faction. Simply put, for those who are capable and willing to essentially 'grief' another player out of the game, it is considered a 'natural selection' in the grand-esque scheme of territorial control and political manipulation. Vengeance is a powerful drive, if you don't have the abilities to exact it, Trinity Nova can help! http://www.trinitynova.co.uk May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
Waagaa Ktlehr Amarr Fluffy wing Fangs	Posted - 2006.08.10 03:46:00 - [37] In EVE, your actions have consequences, it's a pure PvP game which means if you act like a tard in public / game / on the forums someone bigger than you can get **ed off and decide to exterminate you. So, if you managed to do something that made people so angry (in-game) that they are going for total extermination I think you probably deserved it. This isn't some forum where the Internet will protect you. Be a tard on these forums and it will effect you or your organization in-game. Especially if you ** off the wrong people. :) ------------------------------------------ A lapdance is always better when the exotic dancer is crying..
Willis Drummond Lordless Unbrella Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.10 04:05:00 - [38] Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr In EVE, your actions have consequences, it's a pure PvP game which means if you act like a tard in public / game / on the forums someone bigger than you can get **ed off and decide to exterminate you. So, if you managed to do something that made people so angry (in-game) that they are going for total extermination I think you probably deserved it. This isn't some forum where the Internet will protect you. Be a tard on these forums and it will effect you or your organization in-game. Especially if you ** off the wrong people. :) Your point stands but it doesn't take being a tard to receive in-game consequences. There are enough insecure little space warriors around here that disagreeing with someone or not stroking their ego will do it too. I wouldn't have it any other way but let's not delude ourselves into thinking that only people who act like jackasses are the ones who have faced retribution. Awesome Post# 716543
Tarkan Kador Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.08.10 04:29:00 - [39] Interesting to see the replies, but I have a feeling that the ones that deserve to be hounded out of EVE with no refund aren't going to be the ones that will get hurt by a "no holds barred" griefing system. If they are already are sneaky, powerful, and malicious enough to offend you, then chances are they are sneaky, powerful, and malicious enough to stay in EVE in some capacity. Its more interesting to look at the ones that are good people and don't do anything wrong, yet are hounded anyway for stupid reasons by stupid people. They'll simply go elsewhere, and more power to them. I guess its natural selection. Other communities will benefit from those good folk, while we are just stuck with the idiots and tools who chased them away.
Breaky Uzumaki Caldari The Greater Goon	Posted - 2006.08.10 04:48:00 - [40] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists its not the bob/goon event, as we never stated to stal them out of the game, only out of their alliance/0.0. so whgat event do u mean? and incase that case rlly exists, petition it. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=371344&page=2#55 "We do not want that mindset or culture as part of this community" for starters. There have been many BoB posts about driving Goons out of Eve proper, unfortunately many of those threads are now deleted. The whole "driving out of 0.0 space" started after you got the war drums going enough and had the gate camps set up. Maybe then you realized the rhetoric was coming on a little too strong and the backpedaling started.
Montague Zooma Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.10 04:56:00 - [41] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Of course, if you feel like quitting is your only recourse then you either: - take the game way too seriously - are weak of mind - or don't really like playing EVE to begin with Anyone trying to hound another player out of the game is taking the game way too damn seriously. It's definitely "get a life" time.
Ather Ialeas Viziam	Posted - 2006.08.10 05:22:00 - [42] I've had this debate just a few days ago, the conclusion was that no matter what people think of it, nothing good comes from it. Examples: 1) The other side wins and become proverbial kings of the game. Too bad kings are nothing without pawns which they themselves had to eradicate to get to the high position in the first place. This is the most likely scenario. 2) The other side actually quits the game completely. Financially that's a blow to the game developer since if all the sudden you lose, say, 5% of your gamers that means you get -5% income and all the sudden the game developer can't hire new people to do amazing stuff for them because they just can't afford it. As far as business plans go, imagine if on top of that some recent extension to new markets would for some reason fail completely making it a money sink for game developer pushing the company economically even further away from financial stability. The latter is the main reason why I actually hate every single alliance in this game. At the moment I see nothing good that can come out of this community and every now and then I'm utterly disgusted by people's actions ingame mainly because while this is just a game, I firmly believe that if you're evil ingame, you are at least somewhat evil in real life too. I'm not saying that pirates ingame are thieves in real life, I'm just saying that they're ready to take the next step to get what they want and that step most certainly won't be for greater good. ------- I'm not an alt.
Niding Polaris Project	Posted - 2006.08.10 05:30:00 - [43] Most of the responses in this thread is based on EVE gameplay/alliance relations etc... But this response below caught my eye, and noone seemed to pick up on it.. Internet stalkers are a growning problem and should be taken seriously. The example at hand didnt seem to get out of hand in RL thankfully, but the actions of this guy seems troubleing by any rate. Not coz he makes her/her friends ships go boom, but of his anti sosial quality. Originally by: Yavanna I remember a girl in a corp i used to be in was constantly getting harrased by some guy who wanted her to go on a date with him, and had been war deccing and generally harassing every corp she'd joined up to that point (after they had been in corp togetehr initially) After many petitions against his harassment ccp gave her and her old corp warnings for constantly petitioning the guy as he wasn't breaking the game rules Fortunatly we where in a large alliance at the time so the pathetic scrub couldn't touch us
oodin Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2006.08.10 05:45:00 - [44] if he was a rl stalker then that matter would be fixed very fast.arrange for them to date then bring a baseball bat with you and some ducktape.
Dagam Dagam Corp	Posted - 2006.08.10 05:52:00 - [45] Originally by: Montague Zooma Originally by: DigitalCommunist Of course, if you feel like quitting is your only recourse then you either: - take the game way too seriously - are weak of mind - or don't really like playing EVE to begin with Anyone trying to hound another player out of the game is taking the game way too damn seriously. It's definitely "get a life" time. Agreed.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.10 06:21:00 - [46] If you assume it's a "get the person(s) to quit Eve" matter then yes, it is at least questionable. If you assume that it's about making the behaviour "quit" the game, with a possible side-effect (but not the main goal) being that the person(s) that displayed the behaviour in the first place quit(s) the game in the process, then it is not (imo). Your behaviour when playing the game (in a broad sense that also includes the times when you are discussing it and its politics), is part of the gameplay. As such, declaring war over someone's behaviour is totally fitting for the game and there's nothing unacceptable about it. In fact, within the background of a sub-society of post-human pod pilots that cannot die it is a great wonder that not every uninvited remark is enough to inspire a large fight. What's there to lose after all but time, and what's time when you are immortal ? More specifically to your example. It is not allowed within Eve to harass individual players. That means that any situation as described where you follow an inmdividual from corp to corp, place to place unrelentlessly and proceed to make his gameplay impossible by means that are only directed at him personally (no matter wether allowed or not as a means), it can constitute harass ment and (yes here it comes !) griefing. It's up to a GM to decide about that. However, as far as I am aware no case of persecution of a group of players for ingame (=game-related) reasons will ever lead to a harassment ruling. If the reasons are right and not just frivolouos, then it wouldn't worry me personally either. Old blog
Tarkan Kador Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.08.10 07:11:00 - [47] Originally by: Rod Blaine If you assume it's a "get the person(s) to quit Eve" matter then yes, it is at least questionable. If you assume that it's about making the behaviour "quit" the game, with a possible side-effect (but not the main goal) being that the person(s) that displayed the behaviour in the first place quit(s) the game in the process, then it is not (imo). This is reasonable. However, if somebody is trying to make the offensive conduct quit, then when the conduct quits, the aggressor has no more game related reason to continue the aggression. The longer the aggression goes on when the motive is no longer applicable, the less it looks like a game related aggression, and the more it looks like a harassment against the player. These are grey areas. Of course, as you have said, that is why we have a petition system.
Obivan Efa The Machines	Posted - 2006.08.10 07:13:00 - [48] One of the best side of EVE is the possibility to punish ur offender... if u have strength enough.. If u DOW ur opponent u don't need his permission to fight as in other games... and death in EVE is a painfull loss ... such things make ppl more responsible. There are a lot of pilots that represent minor powers in EVE.. they don't have as much possibilities to defend themself.. But EVE is a cruel world and u had to know how to fight. I hope that new Bounty Hunting system will give much more chances for minor pilots to avange.. The current system is unfair sometimes but it shouldn't be nerfed - it's the best system among all known MMORPG... 'couse of it we like EVE. ____________________________ Die, but perish! - viking's war-cry
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.10 08:04:00 - [49] Eve does not have pizza. Eve does have NPC who will tell you where players are. If locator agents are not there to facilitate pizza delivery, maybe they have a more sinister role to play? As CCP added those agents, surely they think that their services are a 'good thing', and thus support the darker side of Eve? Or ... player pizza is comming in Kali! The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2006.08.10 08:39:00 - [50] i already gave a reply in the other thread about this subject regarding "the incident". Ill not bother to retype it, just read my 2 replies on page 16 here In short it is impossible to selectively make 1 individual quit. You can destroy a group of ppl and force them to split, you can destroy their ingame achievements and iskbase but u can not force them to quit. They might given the pressure applied to them but that can and has happened to every mission runner who loses his 45eleventy billion caldari navy raven to a gank. Tough luck, ultimately it is always the players choice to find ways to cope or to throw the toys while walking away.
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.10 09:11:00 - [51] Making someone quit is impossible, making someone's life as horrible as possible is possible but tends to be difficult enough to do that only those that deserve it will receive it. ANd if it's undeserved, petitioning it can be a option. Against a corp/alliance though anything goes really, that's war.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.10 10:28:00 - [52] In response to the original post: What if the original offence was repeated multiple times, by multiple members of the offending alliance, even after the offense was brought to their attention?? snip This type of comment has no place in a signature, please remain courteous - Pirlouit
Audrea Widowmakers Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2006.08.10 10:35:00 - [53] I dont think its right to say, that CCP can judge whose harrasing is just and whose is not. I think harrassing is only when you keep trying to kill a char even in npc corp. only then it can constitute a harrasing. I am not certain, but I think I read somewhere that in such cases, CCP solves it by allowing the char to be renamed once and 'disappear' to somewhere else... ------------------ Tired of fleet combat lag? -Post HERE All posts are my personal opinions.
Buxaroo Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.08.10 11:13:00 - [54] Originally by: Qayos What are you supposed to do to corp theives? Just say oh well? Are you not allowed to retaliate with force you deem appropriate against those who wrong you in some way? It's called accountability, you ** someone off bad enough, you reap the consequences. Simple. Just because a corp theif changes corps doesnt give you back the stuff he stole from you does it? So you should be free to pursue your target wherever he may go. Corp theft is just one example, I'm sure there are other things you can do to someone off to this extent. Whatever it is, if they deem you worthy of hunting, they should be free to hunt you. If you don't want to be hunted, don't do stuff that es people off to this level, else it's really your own doing. Face up to your own actions instead of asking CCP to correct or protect your own damn transgressions. 100% agreed. That's the thing about this game. What you do in EVE will have long lasting effects in the future. That's whats great about this game and what makes it trully unique. You die, you loose your ship and mods, sometimes your implants. You do something really **ty like corp theft you get a very bad reputation and loose trust and respect. All part of the game. And if a corp or alliance has got you targeted for these kinds of tactics then you must have really done something to dishonor them and deserve your you just rewards. To me it's all about honor, even though its a game.
CEO Rockhound Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.10 11:45:00 - [55] The mouth of a single player on these forums, have caused the downfall of several alliances. There have been people that have bought chars of Eve-O, on a nice and legal way (with regard to Eula), and found that they get LOTS of hatemail, gets they're corp war dec'd, gets they're corp booted from alliance they are in etc etc. imo, that is totaly valid. if you can't do the time, don't do the crime. Norsk Gruvedrift. We will rock you.
Loka Gallente adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.10 11:52:00 - [56] Anyone remembering FA forbidding their member to post on EVE-O forums with their main _________________________ Iam back
Shimpu Asgard Schiffswerften Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.08.10 11:54:00 - [57] It's foul. But no one pushes anyone toward quitting the game. That's a myth and false interpretation. They just 'convince' you to change regions, change alliance and/or corp. The players from all those dead alliances are still around. Some of them are working on a new r.i.s.e (pun intended) of their power and others just do stuff they like. There's no reason to whine about Goons (and this thread is all about Goons imho) getting treated unfair. The entity Goons isn't welcome in this game because of the actions of their leader and some of their members. In fact I heard several times myself how the goal of the Goons as an entity is to ruin MMO games for other people just because it's fun. No false mercy for them. About the individual players in Goonswarm: There are nice people with the goons. I had some really entertaining and good chats with some of them. The problem is the average Goon from SA that is just here to bring havoc and insult people and be a smartass. The sane people in Goonswarm that actually like this game and aren't just here to ruin another MMO and insult people should just leave to other corps and alliances and everything would be fine. If they don't want to, it's their problem because then they have to live with excessive siege and 'hate'. You get associated with the entity you align with. Easy as that! Originally by: Unknown Scout "ze scoud ffrom xzy, hSs a geighz aggdi...,eeeeeehhhmmmmm, somesing is jambing halt, sree hospitalized incoming."
Jobie Thickburger Gallente Miner Guide to the Galaxy	Posted - 2006.08.10 12:22:00 - [58] I see where your coming form here, Although I can't admit that such tatics have really been used AFAIK, altough I'm sure its been threatend. Really though, it seems like its a lot of trouble to hunt down a person in this situation. If you had the manpower of an alliance behind you, Ok mabey that would work, But still, There's plenty of places to hide out in Eve, and if that person joins a small corp, What does an alliance wardec mean if he's hiding on the other side of the universe? Is it a leagel tatic? I think so. Is it "Nice?" No, but what in an PVP game is? Usually a hunt like this is to tear apart something completly, Such as BOB is (or is trying) to do with the Goons, Destroy the alliance, so that they are no longer a threat. Most people should't take things seriously enough to go through that much hassle. And besides, there's always the "Join the Big Bad Alliance" Method... Bob sends out the ultimatum, Join an LV Corp, ETC... CEO - MGTTG
Lag Fest Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.10 12:33:00 - [59] if i rememmber correctly goons were the ones bragging how they could take on BoB. oh yeah i forgot.. this was supposed to be all hypothetical or whatever. P.S. u should be happy if someone pwns u like that. that way u get rid of the trash who arent there for the corp but their own buttocks _______________________________________ Keepint it BNC-style.. Be Afraid, be very afraid...
quellious COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.08.10 13:42:00 - [60] Sadly, getting people to play less and eventually quiting eve-online is the only valid way to win any sort of ingame conflict. (you can also say often and loud that you won until eve community trust you, but victory was not acheived ingame). It think this way to fight (a bit personnal) is linked to game mechanism. It's generally admitted that eve power comes from number of players, and time spend online, and not about number of ships killed/loss. One can always hide some industry in NPC faction and built/send ship remplacement. Any well motivated group of people can survive any sized alliance if that keep playing the same time, whatever the tag they have. - > Order Falcon & Pilgrim > Colsup
Zzazzt Gallente Millennium E.R.A	Posted - 2006.08.10 16:06:00 - [61] Originally by: Ather Ialeas I've had this debate just a few days ago, the conclusion was that no matter what people think of it, nothing good comes from it. Examples: 1) The other side wins and become proverbial kings of the game. Too bad kings are nothing without pawns which they themselves had to eradicate to get to the high position in the first place. This is the most likely scenario. 2) The other side actually quits the game completely. Financially that's a blow to the game developer since if all the sudden you lose, say, 5% of your gamers that means you get -5% income and all the sudden the game developer can't hire new people to do amazing stuff for them because they just can't afford it. As far as business plans go, imagine if on top of that some recent extension to new markets would for some reason fail completely making it a money sink for game developer pushing the company economically even further away from financial stability. The latter is the main reason why I actually hate every single alliance in this game. At the moment I see nothing good that can come out of this community and every now and then I'm utterly disgusted by people's actions ingame mainly because while this is just a game, I firmly believe that if you're evil ingame, you are at least somewhat evil in real life too. I'm not saying that pirates ingame are thieves in real life, I'm just saying that they're ready to take the next step to get what they want and that step most certainly won't be for greater good. Thanks mate. You gave me a huge laugh with this post. Bless your little heart ____________________________________________
Crellion Art of War	Posted - 2006.08.10 16:22:00 - [62] Game mechanics dont rly allow you to persecute poor defenceless peeps. What I want with Kali is Marines that evict the ebil dockers and their ship in space. THEN the persecution may start \o/
Fulmen Amarr Caldari Deep Space Ventures Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2006.08.10 16:53:00 - [63] Edited by: Fulmen on 10/08/2006 16:54:59 That is what makes EVE such fun game...WE police ourselves...for the most part. We actually have a very diverse and tolerant community. So, if you actually **** it off to the point that a "make them quit" campaign is launched, you get exactly what you deserve...a front row seat on the "bangbus"!!! However, griefing someone to the point of extinction just because you can is n00bish, and karma will pay you a visit on down the road.
Krystian Caldari No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.08.11 08:11:00 - [64] You sound like a corp thief, and judging by how you are being hounded seems so. The best I can tell you is to make a new character, dont repeat this mistake again. Let your current character train somewhere in empire, give him nice implants and play the hell out of your alt. I dont condone this behavior as I find it no different then cheating in any other game, but its just a game. Even the most determined blood thirsty person will tire and forget about you several months down the line. I have other tips but as I despise corp thiefs I will keep my mouth shut. __________________________________________________ Director of N0 Quarter
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.08.11 10:45:00 - [65] Forcing individuals to quit is no longer a valid tactic. All they have to do is sell their character and buy a new one. However, setting out on any course of action with the intent of making another person or persons actually leave the game is possibly the most anti-social thing I've ever heard anyone do in this game. I'd go so far as to say it's sociopathic. Anyone who's done this should be ashamed of themselves and should, tbh, quit EVE themselves since it's clearly making them mentally ill.
xenorx 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.11 19:14:00 - [66] My dear old granny said it best. "be careful the toes you step on today, for they may be attached to the A$$ you have to kiss tomorrow" If you have offended someone that bad then it is well within the rules of the game that they can hunt you forever. As far as the current situation is concerned the offending party is getting just what he deserves. That is just my personal oppinion of course. No one can hear you scream in space, so just shut up and die already.
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.08.11 19:58:00 - [67] Originally by: Krystian You sound like a corp thief, and judging by how you are being hounded seems so. The best I can tell you is to make a new character, dont repeat this mistake again. Let your current character train somewhere in empire, give him nice implants and play the hell out of your alt. I dont condone this behavior as I find it no different then cheating in any other game, but its just a game. Even the most determined blood thirsty person will tire and forget about you several months down the line. I have other tips but as I despise corp thiefs I will keep my mouth shut. You fail Reading Comprehension. For the record, my old corp loves me. The Billionaire Buccaneer (A Blog for the Bored)
Sun Win Gallente Eve University	Posted - 2006.08.11 20:39:00 - [68] It's true! Join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Krystian Caldari No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.08.11 21:24:00 - [69] Edited by: Krystian on 11/08/2006 21:28:53 Originally by: Devilish Ledoux Originally by: Krystian You sound like a corp thief, and judging by how you are being hounded seems so. The best I can tell you is to make a new character, dont repeat this mistake again. Let your current character train somewhere in empire, give him nice implants and play the hell out of your alt. I dont condone this behavior as I find it no different then cheating in any other game, but its just a game. Even the most determined blood thirsty person will tire and forget about you several months down the line. I have other tips but as I despise corp thiefs I will keep my mouth shut. You fail Reading Comprehension. For the record, my old corp loves me. You fail EvE. If they love you so much why you crying out here? Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, is a corp thief. Been playing this game long enough to hear the same tired old story. __________________________________________________ Director of N0 Quarter
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.08.11 22:21:00 - [70] Edited by: Devilish Ledoux on 11/08/2006 22:21:34 Who's crying? Nobody's after ME. (Hence "Reading Comprehension") Yet. The Billionaire Buccaneer (A Blog for the Bored)
xenodia Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2006.08.11 23:26:00 - [71] Originally by: Devilish Ledoux Due to some current events (for the sake of debate, pretend that you don't know which events), I thought it would be good to have a discussion about whether or not it should be considered acceptable for one alliance/corp to work towards a goal of making another alliance/corp/individual player quit Eve. A "make them quit" strategy is defined as a conflict that isn't about territory, mining rights, money, fun, etc. It would instead be a conflict where one side has an exclusive goal of making Eve so unpalatable for the other side that they will quit playing. Fortunately, many tactics that would be used by a group working towards such a goal are either explicitly forbidden or it is possible for the target to work around them. So it's arguable that most "make them quit" strategies are doomed to fail. However, consider the following scenario (which has probably happened at some point, but I'm not aware of it): A player does something that is not against the terms of service and does not violate any game rules. However, he angers the members of another corporation/alliance. The offended group retaliates by declaring war on the individual's corporation/alliance. The individual leaves the corporation/alliance to spare his friends. The angered group then declares (publicly or not) that ANY corporation that this individual joins will be immediately wardecced for as long as that individual is a member, or even if the group is suspected of working with the target. The offended group would take it a step further by paying handsomely for intelligence regarding this individual's whereabouts so that he can be hounded no matter where he goes. For the sake of argument, assume that this group is wealthy enough to afford to maintain the wardecs, powerful enough to totally outmatch any group that would take in the individual in question, and otherwise capable of hounding the player no matter where he goes. This would effectively make the player a pariah, with no safe harbor and very limited ability to play the game. Of course, this person could also remain a member of an NPC corporation or create a corporation of their own (and then operate somewhere far from his stated headquarters), but they would effectively be confined to a gameplay experience that is far less social than the game was originally intended. If the person in question had become accustomed to a social style of gameplay, this would likely be enough to cause him to leave the game. If the offended group can afford it and is so inclined, he could even be attacked in safe space, so long as the attackers are willing to lose their ships to destroy the target. I'm sure this isn't the only example of a "make them quit" strategy (so please don't critique the strategy itself, only the intent). It may not even work. It's quite possible that the example person could successfully evade the wrath of those he offended and continue to enjoy the game. The choice to leave the game is always left to the target, no matter how much his gameplay experience is hindered. So please discuss: Is it okay to use a strategy specifically designed to make someone quit the game, or is it a violation of the spirit of the rules of the game? Sounds like someone shouldnt have been such an asshat. Please visit our website here
Jehovah Cooper Eve University	Posted - 2006.08.11 23:26:00 - [72] Yet is right. If you don't catch up the Buccaneer saga soon I promise to hunt you to extinction. Or at least until I have to go the bathroom. Join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Righteous Fury Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2006.08.22 19:00:00 - [73] Originally by: Ben Derindar My very first battleship in Eve was a scorpion. I had it probably a lot sooner that I ought to, but I was well aware of this at the time and fully expected to get it blown up in short order. No problem, that's what insurance is for. Well, one day I logged on to find that my safespot was busted and my fully insured scorp had been stolen by Slacker Industries (hi Righteous <3). Scratch 90mil, a hell of a lot of isk for a 3-month old player. I didn't play the game for almost two weeks after that. By your definition, Slackers "made me quit" and should therefore be banned from the game. Yep, I thought that sounded kinda silly, too. /Ben Ben! I remember stealing that Scorp, it took us the good part of 20 hours to scan it down and microwarpdrive all the way to it. We stole a ton of stuff from that system, infact we had an entire fleet of ospreys, scythes, badgers, thoraxes and stuff stashed at a safespot 200 au from the system. Those were the days when scanning took real skill, instead of anyone and their mother with probes could find anything. Glad to see that loss didn't hurt you too much.
Troubadour Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2006.08.22 19:12:00 - [74] In other MMOs i've played it's run like kindergarden. Everyone is supposed to be friends and group together and go out and kill the monsters together. If there is swearing or cursing or "harrassment" that person get's petitioned or reported and probably suspended or banned. The PvP is volentary if there is any at all and limited to 1v1s. So if you really don't like someone in the game, yoru best option is to block them so they can't talk to you and group with someone else to grind monsters. Whoopie. One of the things I love about Eve is the way the universe is run not so much CCP, but by the players. The market and economy, much of the territory, politics, events, etc etc. It's all run by the players with limited involvement from CCP. CCP wanted to create a universe much like real life where people must work out disputes and such among themselves. So if someone angers you in eve, you have the tools to do something about it. Pirate them, declare war on them, sabotage them, trash them in local, etc etc. Basically in other games people trash each other and the worst that can happen is the other person blocks you and doesn't associate with you anymore(as people rarely report you in those kinds of games). In eve, if you trashtalk or **** off the wrong person, there can be consequences. You wouldn't go down a dark alley yelling all high and mighty about how you are a great kung-fu artist in the middle of a city as night, the same goes in eve. Don't run your mouth or be stupid because people eventually WILL make you pay for it. And if you aren't rich or have big friends you won't have anyone to appeal too. Blame the other guy, blame CCP, blame your corpmates, but the real blame lies on yourself. Simply stated. Don't start S$#t, and there won't be no S%#t.
CrestoftheStars The Greater Goon	Posted - 2006.08.23 03:11:00 - [75] Originally by: Shimpu The problem is the average Goon from SA that is just here to bring havoc and insult people and be a smartass. Uhh there are plenty of goons in every major alliance including yours. SA is just a big internet forum at the end of the day, its more idiosyncratic than most hence people identifying themselves as goons, but there is no general hive mind and behaviour among people who happen to belong to the same message board. Sure plenty of goons like to **** around, it isnt the explicit aim of all goon-only corps or for that matter goonfleet.
Ben Derindar Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.23 03:28:00 - [76] Originally by: Righteous Fury I remember stealing that Scorp, it took us the good part of 20 hours to scan it down and microwarpdrive all the way to it. We stole a ton of stuff from that system, infact we had an entire fleet of ospreys, scythes, badgers, thoraxes and stuff stashed at a safespot 200 au from the system. I'd believe it - my corp certainly wasn't the only one with a presence there at the time. Originally by: Righteous Fury Those were the days when scanning took real skill, instead of anyone and their mother with probes could find anything. Glad to see that loss didn't hurt you too much. Well, who rats Sansha's with a scorp anyway, hehe... My mistake was wrongly believing that F11 spots took you in a random direction each time you made them - I didn't realise that there was just the one direction per system. That would have made the process all too easy, looking back. Until I learned that though, losing the scorp got me really curious about busting safes the old-fashioned way myself. So I did the homework and before long, I was bumping into caracals, scythes and badgers etc as well (dual MWD frigs ftw). So, thanks. /Ben
Liu Kaskakka PAK	Posted - 2006.08.23 04:55:00 - [77] Originally by: Ather Ialeas I've had this debate just a few days ago, the conclusion was that no matter what people think of it, nothing good comes from it. Examples: 1) The other side wins and become proverbial kings of the game. Too bad kings are nothing without pawns which they themselves had to eradicate to get to the high position in the first place. This is the most likely scenario. 2) The other side actually quits the game completely. Financially that's a blow to the game developer since if all the sudden you lose, say, 5% of your gamers that means you get -5% income and all the sudden the game developer can't hire new people to do amazing stuff for them because they just can't afford it. As far as business plans go, imagine if on top of that some recent extension to new markets would for some reason fail completely making it a money sink for game developer pushing the company economically even further away from financial stability. The latter is the main reason why I actually hate every single alliance in this game. At the moment I see nothing good that can come out of this community and every now and then I'm utterly disgusted by people's actions ingame mainly because while this is just a game, I firmly believe that if you're evil ingame, you are at least somewhat evil in real life too. I'm not saying that pirates ingame are thieves in real life, I'm just saying that they're ready to take the next step to get what they want and that step most certainly won't be for greater good. Are you a kid, mentally challenged, or both? King Liu is RIGHT!!
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.23 05:54:00 - [78] Originally by: Qayos What are you supposed to do to corp theives? Just say oh well? Are you not allowed to retaliate with force you deem appropriate against those who wrong you in some way? It's called accountability, you ** someone off bad enough, you reap the consequences. Simple. Just because a corp theif changes corps doesnt give you back the stuff he stole from you does it? So you should be free to pursue your target wherever he may go. Corp theft is just one example, I'm sure there are other things you can do to someone off to this extent. Whatever it is, if they deem you worthy of hunting, they should be free to hunt you. If you don't want to be hunted, don't do stuff that *es people off to this level, else it's really your own doing. Face up to your own actions instead of asking CCP to correct or protect your own damn transgressions. QFT If anything, Eve needs more tools for tracking down folks who've wronged you. More two sided PvP ftw. (I'll admit easier said than done, but still true....) snip* This type of comment has no place in a signature, please remain courteous - Pirlouit
Righteous Fury Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2006.08.23 06:03:00 - [79] Edited by: Righteous Fury on 23/08/2006 06:04:03 Originally by: Ben Derindar (dual MWD frigs ftw). So, thanks. /Ben No prob. :) We discovered that triple-mwd Maledictions worked the best, hitting 187km/s in bursts was utterly brilliant.
Noveron Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.23 10:18:00 - [80] Edited by: Noveron on 23/08/2006 10:18:37 If you play to make someone "quit" you really have a brain problem, imho. Although if some player ethics or behaviour makes another corp or alliance "hate" him in game to the point of declaring every single corp he signs in, then the player should go to a npc corp and stay there doing his stuff untill either the offended corp feels satisfied or until they get bored, in most of these cases I doubt anyon thinks "we want to ruin his rl" or "make him quit eve for ever", etc.. if someone thinks like that though, I repeat, he/she is ill minded. And Im also sure, this supposed "hatred" dont last for ever, because nothing does. Briefly you can not p* someone off badly ingame and pretend they just forget. Reasons why people p* off in this game are arguable of course, but thats another story. I suppose we all act logically and maturely while supposing things that may happen.
Grimster Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.23 12:06:00 - [81] I can think of a handful of corps off the top of my head that would probably welcome such a player and his dogged war dec's (assuming ofc he's honest and not a corp thief etc.)
Trinity Faetal 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.23 12:38:00 - [82] only reason i joined eve is to make Dark Shikari quit eve, so far i haven't succeded yet... but soonÖ so yeah, there is your "make them quit" tactic
Bared Bel'Medar Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.08.23 22:22:00 - [83] Originally by: Devilish Ledoux Due to some current events (for the sake of debate, pretend that you don't know which events), I thought it would be good to have a discussion about whether or not it should be considered acceptable for one alliance/corp to work towards a goal of making another alliance/corp/individual player quit Eve. A "make them quit" strategy is defined as a conflict that isn't about territory, mining rights, money, fun, etc. It would instead be a conflict where one side has an exclusive goal of making Eve so unpalatable for the other side that they will quit playing. Fortunately, many tactics that would be used by a group working towards such a goal are either explicitly forbidden or it is possible for the target to work around them. So it's arguable that most "make them quit" strategies are doomed to fail. However, consider the following scenario (which has probably happened at some point, but I'm not aware of it): A player does something that is not against the terms of service and does not violate any game rules. However, he angers the members of another corporation/alliance. The offended group retaliates by declaring war on the individual's corporation/alliance. The individual leaves the corporation/alliance to spare his friends. The angered group then declares (publicly or not) that ANY corporation that this individual joins will be immediately wardecced for as long as that individual is a member, or even if the group is suspected of working with the target. The offended group would take it a step further by paying handsomely for intelligence regarding this individual's whereabouts so that he can be hounded no matter where he goes. For the sake of argument, assume that this group is wealthy enough to afford to maintain the wardecs, powerful enough to totally outmatch any group that would take in the individual in question, and otherwise capable of hounding the player no matter where he goes. This would effectively make the player a pariah, with no safe harbor and very limited ability to play the game. Of course, this person could also remain a member of an NPC corporation or create a corporation of their own (and then operate somewhere far from his stated headquarters), but they would effectively be confined to a gameplay experience that is far less social than the game was originally intended. If the person in question had become accustomed to a social style of gameplay, this would likely be enough to cause him to leave the game. If the offended group can afford it and is so inclined, he could even be attacked in safe space, so long as the attackers are willing to lose their ships to destroy the target. I'm sure this isn't the only example of a "make them quit" strategy (so please don't critique the strategy itself, only the intent). It may not even work. It's quite possible that the example person could successfully evade the wrath of those he offended and continue to enjoy the game. The choice to leave the game is always left to the target, no matter how much his gameplay experience is hindered. So please discuss: Is it okay to use a strategy specifically designed to make someone quit the game, or is it a violation of the spirit of the rules of the game? its always fair. What ultimate vitory takes is always acceptable. That said, doing it duke's way was a little bit more fun... even hough the fighting was usally cleaner. Telling DB apart from molle: DB is funny.
Raid Caldari Tyrell Corp Curse Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.23 22:48:00 - [84] Edited by: Raid on 23/08/2006 22:50:55 Originally by: Bared Bel'Medar its always fair. What ultimate vitory takes is always acceptable. That said, doing it duke's way was a little bit more fun... even hough the fighting was usally cleaner. I know how to make you quit bared... Duke is gone.. again.. Ok cya in another year!
Darpz Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.08.24 03:34:00 - [85] TBH its rare that I would want to do it to someone there is one such person in the game now that was banned a while back for account theft that if I ever found out his new main was I would war dec any corp he joined. but alas when he tried to make contact with me he used an alt and I havne't been able to figure out his main yet and I guess when someone gets banned they don't care if they buy another account and use that

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