EVE Search - "Make Them Quit" Tactics: Fair or Foul?

All Channels

Corporation, Alliance and Organization Discussions

"Make Them Quit" Tactics: Fair or Foul?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.08.09 20:49:00 - [1] Due to some current events (for the sake of debate, pretend that you don't know which events), I thought it would be good to have a discussion about whether or not it should be considered acceptable for one alliance/corp to work towards a goal of making another alliance/corp/individual player quit Eve. A "make them quit" strategy is defined as a conflict that isn't about territory, mining rights, money, fun, etc. It would instead be a conflict where one side has an exclusive goal of making Eve so unpalatable for the other side that they will quit playing. Fortunately, many tactics that would be used by a group working towards such a goal are either explicitly forbidden or it is possible for the target to work around them. So it's arguable that most "make them quit" strategies are doomed to fail. However, consider the following scenario (which has probably happened at some point, but I'm not aware of it): A player does something that is not against the terms of service and does not violate any game rules. However, he angers the members of another corporation/alliance. The offended group retaliates by declaring war on the individual's corporation/alliance. The individual leaves the corporation/alliance to spare his friends. The angered group then declares (publicly or not) that ANY corporation that this individual joins will be immediately wardecced for as long as that individual is a member, or even if the group is suspected of working with the target. The offended group would take it a step further by paying handsomely for intelligence regarding this individual's whereabouts so that he can be hounded no matter where he goes. For the sake of argument, assume that this group is wealthy enough to afford to maintain the wardecs, powerful enough to totally outmatch any group that would take in the individual in question, and otherwise capable of hounding the player no matter where he goes. This would effectively make the player a pariah, with no safe harbor and very limited ability to play the game. Of course, this person could also remain a member of an NPC corporation or create a corporation of their own (and then operate somewhere far from his stated headquarters), but they would effectively be confined to a gameplay experience that is far less social than the game was originally intended. If the person in question had become accustomed to a social style of gameplay, this would likely be enough to cause him to leave the game. If the offended group can afford it and is so inclined, he could even be attacked in safe space, so long as the attackers are willing to lose their ships to destroy the target. I'm sure this isn't the only example of a "make them quit" strategy (so please don't critique the strategy itself, only the intent). It may not even work. It's quite possible that the example person could successfully evade the wrath of those he offended and continue to enjoy the game. The choice to leave the game is always left to the target, no matter how much his gameplay experience is hindered. So please discuss: Is it okay to use a strategy specifically designed to make someone quit the game, or is it a violation of the spirit of the rules of the game? The Billionaire Buccaneer (A Blog for the Bored)
Jif Lemming	Posted - 2006.08.09 20:55:00 - [2] Edited by: Jif Lemming on 09/08/2006 20:55:37
Valan	Posted - 2006.08.09 20:56:00 - [3] Apologies wrong char above, new lemming for EVE radio :) It's the only way to really win EVE. The only way to really avoid the tactic is to take a break and hope they forget why they started it. I know people who've been harrassed out of the game, you can petition the GMs but it doesn't help. CCPs loss I guess.
Draximus Cane Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.09 20:56:00 - [4] I think in most cases, one side is looking for the other to reduce its capacity and its availability of the more valuable areas in Eve, and yes this is not only accepatable, but an intention of the game mechanics -------------------------------------------------
Dust Angel True Core	Posted - 2006.08.09 20:56:00 - [5] Most do not have the patience for such an extermination. if the character really has it that bad, he can always sell his character and buy another one. _____________________________________ Stressed out with empire politics? Sansha's Nation helps clear your mind.
dantes inferno Caldari Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:00:00 - [6] there are some instanced where i aplaued tactics of this type..where the player(s) actions seem to focus on distorting the game play and atmosphere in game for the rest...then trying to drive them out is in fact conserving the eve we all know and love. their are instances where the offence is so strong..and the reaction to the offence was uncensere...then again driving him out of the game is something which benefits the comunity on the whole. Tbh as long as it is in the game mechanics and is not griefing or harrasment..then its perfectly legit. _____ They were monsters. They rode across the world we knew and brough terror, and death. Where they were, life ceased. They were without mercy. They were without fear - They were MASS
Sir Juri Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:00:00 - [7] If they publicly announce theyll wardec any corp that harbors this guy and then chase/stalk the guy for weeks/months with no end in every corner of EVE, and smack him 24/7 and more. I would consider that to be griefing. But it also depends on what he did to deserve this hate. damn need to make a new sig...
Vailan Catalyst Reaction Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:02:00 - [8] this scenario sounds familiar to a situation in which my corp was dealing with a while back....its silly but usually its the person that's getting war deced own fault for being a total jerk...The tactic to make them quit eve is totaly a viable one though. Because its very easy to counter, go somewhere else. Eve is huge there's always a place to run away too. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/chaosPhd/Sigs%20or%20Banners/Vailan-Sig.jpg [orange]Max signature size is 400x120 pixels and 24,000 bytes. Email us for questio
Shiwan Khan Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:04:00 - [9] honestly if you are a person who takes a game like this so seriously that, because of some loss of isk in a GAME you decide to quit...well then i suggest you cancel your account, seek counseling, and walk outside in what is commonly known in many circles as "light". And i suppose if all else fails, you can always just go play in the street.... "TO THETR DRUMNBS OF WAR WET GHO" - Buddrow 2005.06.17 07:15:13 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes Nebba Kenezzer [SNRA], wrecking for 2250.9 damage.
Mistress Suffering Einherjar Rising Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:14:00 - [10] EVE is a competitive game that rewards manpower and time played. Most forms of EVE warfare have the (unstated) goal of making your target play less. You restrict their movement, destroy their assets, and generally make their gametime as incapacitated as possible. As morale drops, people play less, until at some point they set it aside and cease playing. If you have a long-term war with someone, then odds are that one or both sides have exactly this goal. Not everyone is as up front about admitting to it, so I would't stress out just because someone shows more honesty than the norm.
Willis Drummond Lordless Unbrella Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:19:00 - [11] Originally by: Shiwan Khan honestly if you are a person who takes a game like this so seriously that, because of some loss of isk in a GAME you decide to quit... Don't be retarded, this isn't about isk it's about a group of people organizing to ruin your playtime by repeatedly killing you and anyone who allows you into their midst. Anyways too many people are going to reply with the current situation in mind and that will entirely bias their responses. Trying to make someone quit the game is perfectly fine, if you ask me. Not very sporting but what in EVE really is? It's not like the 'victim' has no options. Join a rookie corp and fly missions in empire until they forget about you. Buy another character, play an alt, etc. It's absolutely impossible to make a person who wants to quit the game quit without their going along with the plan. Awesome Post# 657522
Rose Kolodny Gallente Space Invaders	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:19:00 - [12] If someone can't take the beating in this game from other players and wants to quit: good bye, play a less competitive game. There are billions of ways to make someone quit, I left the game for a longer break because most players only blob fighted me (alone) and some 3-4 month old chars in Ravens were just too overpowered and I couldn't sustain the losses being someone who liked to fight alone and a lot. Did I cry about it? No. -- Recruiting Video
Jif Lemming	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:23:00 - [13] Edited by: Jif Lemming on 09/08/2006 21:23:08
Yavanna	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:24:00 - [14] I remember a girl in a corp i used to be in was constantly getting harrased by some guy who wanted her to go on a date with him, and had been war deccing and generally harassing every corp she'd joined up to that point (after they had been in corp togetehr initially) After many petitions against his harassment ccp gave her and her old corp warnings for constantly petitioning the guy as he wasn't breaking the game rules Fortunatly we where in a large alliance at the time so the pathetic scrub couldn't touch us
Valan	Posted - 2006.08.09 21:24:00 - [15] Thats twice now, flaming forums! Originally by: Shiwan Khan honestly if you are a person who takes a game like this so seriously that, because of some loss of isk in a GAME you decide to quit...well then i suggest you cancel your account, seek counseling, and walk outside in what is commonly known in many circles as "light". And i suppose if all else fails, you can always just go play in the street.... hmmmm I'm a little confused. If the game isn't fun you quit, it has nothing to do with isk loss. I wouldn't say they need counselling because they're so distraught, they just go do something else. The person that quits isn't bothered because they've quit. They're not interested anymore, they cease to think about EVE at all. They don't start crying because they've lost, they literally don't play because there is nothing to do once logged on. It's the freak that spends countless man hours pursuing an individual that needs counselling. Jumping around home screaming 'I won I've made him leave' that needs help.
DigitalCommunist Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:00:00 - [16] Since you're Caldari Provisions, and a mod will probably come in to lock this thread soon.. I'll keep it somewhat short. Suffice is to say your definition of a "make them quit" strategy is stupid. You can't make someone quit the game. You can cause them grief and sour their gameplay experience by exerting pressure. But even then its no guarantee they'll even leave the corp. In most cases, leaving the corp/alliance thats getting such treatment will end your problems. Worst case scenario, you get hounded in every corp you join, including NPC corps (which is highly unlikely).. all you do is start a new character. Fair? Maybe, maybe not.. If someone wants you that dead, you probably deserve it imo. No random/senseless griefer will go to elaborate lengths and exert such efforts without just cause. Something a certain Mirial found out the hard way. Of course, if you feel like quitting is your only recourse then you either: - take the game way too seriously - are weak of mind - or don't really like playing EVE to begin with Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Rexthor Hammerfists Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:02:00 - [17] ill b so bold to ask this: "for the sake of debate, pretend that you don't know which events" its not the bob/goon event, as we never stated to stal them out of the game, only out of their alliance/0.0. so whgat event do u mean? and incase that case rlly exists, petition it. - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:03:00 - [18] Man, I need to **** someone off so I can be hunted 24/7. No more looking for targets!
thoth foc Destructive Influence	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:06:00 - [19] you mean like 1 alliance/corp/person beating another alliance/corp/person to the point the defeated members go and do something else in the game.. well gee.. when did this get introduced into MMO games.. >: )
Ben Derindar Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:32:00 - [20] My very first battleship in Eve was a scorpion. I had it probably a lot sooner that I ought to, but I was well aware of this at the time and fully expected to get it blown up in short order. No problem, that's what insurance is for. Well, one day I logged on to find that my safespot was busted and my fully insured scorp had been stolen by Slacker Industries (hi Righteous <3). Scratch 90mil, a hell of a lot of isk for a 3-month old player. I didn't play the game for almost two weeks after that. By your definition, Slackers "made me quit" and should therefore be banned from the game. Yep, I thought that sounded kinda silly, too. /Ben
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:42:00 - [21] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Since you're Caldari Provisions, and a mod will probably come in to lock this thread soon.. I'll keep it somewhat short. I'm not an alt. There is no rule against people in NPC corporations from posting in this forum. Nor is posting non-smack discussions. Quote: Suffice is to say your definition of a "make them quit" strategy is stupid. No, it isn't. Quote: You can't make someone quit the game. I agree. I even said that: Originally by: Devilish Ledoux The choice to leave the game is always left to the target, no matter how much his gameplay experience is hindered." It's near the bottom. You can cause them grief and sour their gameplay experience by exerting pressure. But even then its no guarantee they'll even leave the corp. In most cases, leaving the corp/alliance thats getting such treatment will end your problems. I never said it would work. It was the intent I was judging, not the result. Quote: Worst case scenario, you get hounded in every corp you join, including NPC corps (which is highly unlikely).. all you do is start a new character. Fair? Maybe, maybe not.. If someone wants you that dead, you probably deserve it imo. No random/senseless griefer will go to elaborate lengths and exert such efforts without just cause. Something a certain Mirial found out the hard way. Of course, if you feel like quitting is your only recourse then you either: - take the game way too seriously - are weak of mind - or don't really like playing EVE to begin with That last bit is really all you needed to say to get your opinion across. The Billionaire Buccaneer (A Blog for the Bored)
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:43:00 - [22] Originally by: Ben Derindar My very first battleship in Eve was a scorpion. I had it probably a lot sooner that I ought to, but I was well aware of this at the time and fully expected to get it blown up in short order. No problem, that's what insurance is for. Well, one day I logged on to find that my safespot was busted and my fully insured scorp had been stolen by Slacker Industries (hi Righteous <3). Scratch 90mil, a hell of a lot of isk for a 3-month old player. I didn't play the game for almost two weeks after that. By your definition, Slackers "made me quit" and should therefore be banned from the game. Yep, I thought that sounded kinda silly, too. /Ben I'm thinking Slackers wasn't trying to make you quit, there. He just thought, "Hey, free Scorpion." The Billionaire Buccaneer (A Blog for the Bored)
Stamm Amarr GALAXIAN	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:45:00 - [23] You can pull all sorts of horrifically nasty betrayals in Eve. You can empty the corp wallet, steal all the stuff from the hangars. You can give intel to enemies. You can scout out your own miners for them. You can act like an arse so much to get them into trouble. You can make the game unpleasant for other people. The consequences are that your actions are never forgotten, and you'll be persona non gratis for the rest of your Eve career. Corporations, and alliances are the same thing. If you're asking for an Eve where it's not possible to make enemies and to see someone as an enemy forever, then that's not an Eve I want. Hate, grudges, angst, bad blood are part of Eve, for better or for worse. Personally I try not to have them myself, but do I want an Eve where it's not possible? No.
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:47:00 - [24] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists ill b so bold to ask this: "for the sake of debate, pretend that you don't know which events" its not the bob/goon event, as we never stated to stal them out of the game, only out of their alliance/0.0. so whgat event do u mean? and incase that case rlly exists, petition it. If "the events" exist, I'm not involved in them, which is the biggest reason I see no reason to go into them. Whether or not the situation exists at present isn't really relevant to a discussion about whether or not it's a valid strategy for anyone to pursue. How's that for answering your question by not answering it? The Billionaire Buccaneer (A Blog for the Bored)
Nira Li Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:49:00 - [25] If I shoot at someone and they quit because of it, they shouldn't have started to play eve at first tbh. You Will Cry My Name Funny Guys
Ace Garp1 Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:51:00 - [26] Originally by: Willis Drummond Originally by: Shiwan Khan honestly if you are a person who takes a game like this so seriously that, because of some loss of isk in a GAME you decide to quit... Don't be retarded, this isn't about isk it's about a group of people organizing to ruin your playtime by repeatedly killing you and anyone who allows you into their midst. Anyways too many people are going to reply with the current situation in mind and that will entirely bias their responses. Trying to make someone quit the game is perfectly fine, if you ask me. Not very sporting but what in EVE really is? It's not like the 'victim' has no options. Join a rookie corp and fly missions in empire until they forget about you. Buy another character, play an alt, etc. It's absolutely impossible to make a person who wants to quit the game quit without their going along with the plan. i'd sit that char in a starbase in a system where enemy of the people trying to kill me will get a fight every time they log on i would then leave that char sitting there online 23 hours a day skill training for months and play on my other computer with my other account let them sit outside bored sensless waiting for me to come out LOL What the frig can i put here ?
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.09 22:52:00 - [27] There's a whole lot of stuff that people moan about how it sucks and is unfair, but has a measure of validity. (I won't go into examples, because I'm fairly sure you are either aware of them, or can find them in about 30 seconds on this forum). However harassing someone until they quit, would seem to be to be the very definition of the term.
Itzena Amarr OtakuDyne Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.09 23:16:00 - [28] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Suffice is to say your definition of a "make them quit" strategy is stupid. You can't make someone quit the game. SirMolle disagrees. -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
JP Moregain Gallente Moregain Guaranty Trust	Posted - 2006.08.09 23:19:00 - [29] Edited by: JP Moregain on 09/08/2006 23:24:07 Originally by: Devilish Ledoux I'm not an alt. There is no rule against people in NPC corporations from posting in this forum. Nor is posting non-smack discussions. Just to confirm from personal experience, Devilish is no forum trolling alt, but rather played extensively with a now essentially defunct Alliance with a reputation as carebearish, which rhymes with Fig Flu I can also confirm that he really probably (never know for sure...) has no axe to grind with either of the inferred but unnamed combatants... I believe he is actually trying to stimulate an interesting discussion, so just go with it guys/gals... "In JP We Trust, All Others Require Collateral..."
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.08.09 23:25:00 - [30] Originally by: JP Moregain Edited by: JP Moregain on 09/08/2006 23:21:05 Originally by: Devilish Ledoux I'm not an alt. There is no rule against people in NPC corporations from posting in this forum. Nor is posting non-smack discussions. Just to confirm from personal experience, Devilish is no forum trolling alt, but rather played extensively with a now essentially defunct Alliance with a reputations as carebearish, which rhymes with Fig Flue I can also confirm that he really probably (never know for sure...) has no axe to grind with either of the inferred but unnamed combatants... I believe he is actually trying to stimulate an interesting discussion, so just go with it guys/gals... Plus I have a blog that's behind on its updates. The Billionaire Buccaneer (A Blog for the Bored)

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.