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kessah Caldari Blood Corsairs	Posted - 2006.08.11 16:19:00 - [1] Raptor, Ares and tbh both amarr ceptors. They all need boosting and some sort of introduction to create a detrimental effect on rockets with transversal. Turrets suffer and rockets dont its as simply as that. All ceptors need to cut there mwd when orbiting a target except the crow and other rocket ceptors ares and malediction 'sometimes the later two are used as a rocket ship' Post some changes to the Ares Raptor and The Amarr ceptors, Slot changes, PG\CPU, Turret\missles layouts and bonuses. Lets have it guys i know most of u think CCP have forgetten about these ships lets make sure they dont. -------------------------------------------------------- Forever Pirate
Savion Mercarte	Posted - 2006.08.11 16:27:00 - [2] Edited by: Savion Mercarte on 11/08/2006 16:28:06 Edited by: Savion Mercarte on 11/08/2006 16:26:40 I dont know about the others, but Crusader needs a few more PG. It's hard to fit anything on it even with adv weapon upgrades and other skills. Malediction needs something other than +EM missle damage. Maybe increased cap recharge, or something actually useful. +damage on a secondary weapon, and a bad +damage bonus is lame. They both could benefit with slightly higher capacitors. Interceptors in general are pretty weak, except the taranis and crow. =\|
fmercury Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.11 16:30:00 - [3] Edited by: fmercury on 11/08/2006 16:30:43 Crusader needs a boost? News to me. Other than the sader, the rest are pretty useless though. As for the malediction/non-beam sader, the issue is with small pulses sucking*****, and nothing to do with the fundamental design of the ships. - although that EM missile damage could use a looking at. As for raptor/ares, it's with split weapons systems. Both can be used well, it just takes more specialization to do so.
Sangxianc Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.11 16:36:00 - [4] Originally by: fmercury As for raptor/ares, it's with split weapons systems. Both can be used well, it just takes more specialization to do so. Problem with the Ares is that it's using the wrong weapon for its race. Degeneres animos timor arguit Fear reveals ignoble spirits
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.11 16:39:00 - [5] Originally by: fmercury Edited by: fmercury on 11/08/2006 16:30:43 Crusader needs a boost? News to me. Other than the sader, the rest are pretty useless though. As for the malediction/non-beam sader, the issue is with small pulses sucking*****, and nothing to do with the fundamental design of the ships. - although that EM missile damage could use a looking at. As for raptor/ares, it's with split weapons systems. Both can be used well, it just takes more specialization to do so. Problem is that it cannot web and scramble. Pretty much same as claw. That's the reason why claw/crusader are like 50% cheaper than crow/taranis. --------------------- Looking for frentix? Mail me.
Lord Nidec Livius Legal and Social Consortium	Posted - 2006.08.11 16:40:00 - [6] Edited by: Lord Nidec on 11/08/2006 16:43:06 From an Amarr perspective, Gatling Pulse Lasers need their fittings reduced to be in line with 75mm Rail / 125mm Autocannon. Medium Beam Lasers need their fittings reduced a bit further to something realistic on anything other than a Retribution. I think the Crusader is ok other than this. The reason it's gimped in my opinion is that a Taranis can fit a plate and a damage control and have incredible hp with good damage, but the Crusader can only have good damage with average hp. GPL change would help this. Possunt, quia posse uidentur They can conquer, who believe they can
Murauke	Posted - 2006.08.11 16:42:00 - [7] pretty much every inty that has only 2 midslots sucks at pvping other inties... the claw needs a boost the most because tranversal sucks the most weapon type wise, and without a web your screwed
Rexthor Hammerfists Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.11 16:42:00 - [8] give the malediction, ares , raptor and the stilletto a warpscrambler bonus. like range and other stuff. would make em fun to fly and useful again ;) - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.08.11 16:44:00 - [9] Crusaders are fine, intie pilots shouldn't dogfight other intie pilots anyways. Sig removed, inappropriate content - Cortes
kessah Caldari Blood Corsairs	Posted - 2006.08.11 17:22:00 - [10] Originally by: Berrik Radhok Crusaders are fine, intie pilots shouldn't dogfight other intie pilots anyways. Why the hell not? its always done. O i get it unless your a ranis or crow and possibly with the claw. The Sader needs a boost to it's dmg tbh, i vote for a 7.5% dmg bonus bring it in line with the ranis. -------------------------------------------------------- Forever Pirate
Imode Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.11 17:42:00 - [11] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: fmercury Edited by: fmercury on 11/08/2006 16:30:43 Crusader needs a boost? News to me. Other than the sader, the rest are pretty useless though. As for the malediction/non-beam sader, the issue is with small pulses sucking*****, and nothing to do with the fundamental design of the ships. - although that EM missile damage could use a looking at. As for raptor/ares, it's with split weapons systems. Both can be used well, it just takes more specialization to do so. Problem is that it cannot web and scramble. Pretty much same as claw. That's the reason why claw/crusader are like 50% cheaper than crow/taranis. Then again, the Claw has a ridiculous powergrid and can be quite a powerful ship with the correct setup. Likewise, so can the Crusader. It seems the dev set out to make two types of interceptors for each race, a tackler and a damage dealer. For most races, this works out pretty well. Minmatar: Stiletto - Tackler Claw - Damage Dealer Amarr: Malediction - Tackler Crusader - Damage Dealer Caldari: Raptor - Tackler Crow - Damage Dealer Then we come to the Gallente which in my opinion is just completely messed up. Is the Ares the tackler? It is faster than the Taranis and has a greater targetting resolution, but has only 2 mids. So is the Ares the damage dealer? It has 4 highs and 4 lows, yet it suffers from an extremely limited powergrid and a split weapons system with split bonuses. On the other hand, the Taranis is a capable tackler with 3 mids. It has only 3 weapon-capable hi-slots compared to 4 for the Ares, but benefits from a unified double-hybrid damage bonus. Essentially, every interceptor has a good role except the Ares which is outclassed by the Taranis in almost every useful way. ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Frools Killson Corp	Posted - 2006.08.11 17:45:00 - [12] Originally by: kessah Why the hell not? its always done. O i get it unless your a ranis or crow and possibly with the claw. The Sader needs a boost to it's dmg tbh, i vote for a 7.5% dmg bonus bring it in line with the ranis. qft, no reason you shouldnt dogfight in ceptors tbh sader is fine, small lasers aren't, small lasers need a bit of a damage boost ranis needs its slot layout swapped with ares to bring it into line with the other armour tanking combat ceptors the other ceptors (ares, malediction, stilleto, raptor) should get some kind of tackling bonus this divides the ceptors into combat/damage (2 mids + damage, cept crow, dunno what to do about that tbh) and tackling (3 mids + tackle) thats what i think should be done with ceptors anyway
Maya Rkell Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.08.11 17:54:00 - [13] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 11/08/2006 17:54:16 LUKEC, and the Claw certainly kills stuff nicely... What the Amarr ceptors CAN'T do is fight Claws. They're good at most other things.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.08.11 17:59:00 - [14] Edited by: welsh wizard on 11/08/2006 17:59:44 Erm the Crusader's frekkin awesome! Would love to see the Raptor as a rail ship. :D
Leon 026 Caldari Blood Inquisition	Posted - 2006.08.11 19:44:00 - [15] Edited by: Leon 026 on 11/08/2006 19:51:10 Stop suggesting slot changes on interceptors other than the Ares, they're fine as they are. Only interceptors that need looking at is the raptor and ares, and both have potential to be inty-killers if you know how to set them up right. Ares most definately needs the drone bay that the ranis has. ------------------------------- [ 2006.06.22 04:28:01 ] Leon 026 > My Crow dances like she's on ecstasy
LaCoHa Acerbus Vindictum	Posted - 2006.08.11 20:00:00 - [16] Edited by: LaCoHa on 11/08/2006 19:59:58 I think the Ares is fine as it is. Its one of the few interceptors that can orbit at 15k (full MWD speed) while jamming with a 20k, and spamming missles (albeit not a ton of them, but certainly enoug to be annoying as hell). and it can do this forever with the right setup. not the best interceptor, but i really think its the most fun to fly - no to mention its amazing speed with 4 x nano's or overdrives.
Wild Rho Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.08.11 20:13:00 - [17] The crusader is fine in general, as somone said, it's the small beams themselves that are the problem requiring far too much powergrid for their size. The only 2 things that bug me in a sader is how both the stiletto and claws seemed designed more or less perfectly to kill amarr inties (80% natural EM resistance, generally faster etc) and that missile inties don't have to worry about their transversal speeds in order to do damage, although I don't have a solution to balance it out. WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your ass will be laminated. - Jennie Marlboro
Altai Saker Omniscient Order Verisum Family	Posted - 2006.08.11 20:35:00 - [18] Small beams suck ass, the crusader has way too low cpu (IMO) The ares... wowza, what a pile. They shoudl go back to the original design concept for the ares changes, aka 3 high 4 mid 3 low (or whatever it was 4 mids is the only thing that matters) Also why does the taranis get a drone bay? Shouldnt the ares be the one with the drones?
Kalixa Hihro	Posted - 2006.08.11 20:47:00 - [19] Originally by: Sangxianc Also, it doesn't really do anything the Taranis doesn't. Except be the ideal tackler out of the two. o.O The purpose of a ceptor is to get stuff locked down after it catches them. The taranis can't get out of it's own way so fails miserably in both of these areas unless it's chasing frigs or bigger or locking cruisers and bigger out of the gate. The ares: 1. locks faster 2. flys faster (check out the speed on both) 3. warps faster (13.9 AU/s vs 9 AU/s) 4. has a smaller sig radius, so tends to live longer against large ships. 5. if you train your missile skills, probably does more damage(I have a while to go there) If you fit a dread guristas disruptor, you can orbit any battleship at 22km and not get hit by torps or any other gun and have nothing to fear from NOS. The ares is probably the most underrated cepter in the game, unless you are fighting other cepters. I've flown both and the taranis is shiite unless you don't have the skills to fly the ares well. The taranis is a solo pwnmobile in 1v1, killing some cruisers, and other cepters if you get lucky, but in it's role, as an interceptor, it sucks. If you are fighing in a fleet, you are better off saving your money and getting a real interceptor. Fleet ceptor setup: Hi: 2x125mm II, 2x Malkuth rocket launchers (low cpu) or missile launchers your pref. Mid: 1mn MWD (or gistii for small gangs), good named 20km disruptor (or dread guristas 24km for small gangs) low: 2x nanofiber internal structure I's, signal amplifier II, cap power relay Save the blasteranis for solo work. The Ares is the high class "interceptor". The taranis is a slightly faster, harder to hit incursus with a few gunnery bonuses. They are cheaper, if you can fly an all tech ii ares with signal amp ii, actually try it out and see if you don't get more stuff "intercepted" in an ares. there's nothing low class about the ares. You just need to use the right tools for the job, and be an interceptor, not weak assault frig, to see it's beauty. -Kal /----------------------------------------------------------------------------------/ My opinion in no way represents that of my corp or anyone I am associated with, and is probably entirely wrong.
Stamm Amarr GALAXIAN	Posted - 2006.08.11 20:49:00 - [20] All they're interested in is cheap drink, living off the state, avoiding work and getting pregnant at 15.
Master OlavPancrazio	Posted - 2006.08.11 21:00:00 - [21] Edited by: Master OlavPancrazio on 11/08/2006 21:02:07 Would anyone be interested if say these intercepters had a propulsion jamming bonus, mabye like 3% per level or something to both webbers and scrams range?
Imode Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.11 21:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Kalixa Hihro The ares: 1. locks faster 2. flys faster (check out the speed on both) 3. warps faster (13.9 AU/s vs 9 AU/s) 4. has a smaller sig radius, so tends to live longer against large ships. 5. if you train your missile skills, probably does more damage(I have a while to go there) The Taranis: 1. locks sufficiently fast to tackle 2. flys pretty damn fast itself 3. warps fast (9 AU/s vs. 3AU/s) 4. has a small sig radius which actually means nothing when you're firing your MWD 5. has a double damage bonus to 3 turrets which completely outclasses 1 damage bonus to 2 guns, and another 2 2 launchers Yes, the Ares is a great little ship if you're tackling something in the middle of nowhere. I was impressed once when I chased a shuttle into a long warp to a planet and came out of warp before him and killed him. But then there was that one time where I caught a Badger off insta at a gate. Except I didn't really catch him at all becauase he hit his afterburner and he was gone. ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.11 21:19:00 - [23] Actually, Ares does the least damage of all interceptors when using comparable weapons and fittings (only takes one damage mod and any of the other 'ceptors do more damage) bar the Raptor (which can actually tackle). The Taranis is an all-rounder interceptor. It's Duvolle Laboratories, which are the main turret and high-tech Gallentean producers oddly enough. For some reason Roden Shipyards got styled as some sort of missile ship producer, and for the life of me I don't know how on earth they managed to get any design contracts with that philosophy. Going by their track record, they're also obviously doing something wrong since nearly none of their ships are actually performing anything worth mentioning. The Ares has nearly everything set up for becoming a great damage dealer, all it needs is some more weapon systems and the fittings for them. Sadly, this seems to break some sort of symmetry, giving a ship more slots than others. In either case. Here's an Ares after I've assassinated the Roden Shipyards designers and replaced them with clones that are controlled via my advanced drone AI scripts (sort of high-jacked from rogue drones, so don't give the scientists any weapons whatever you do): Ares Frigate: +5% Hybrid turret damage, +7.5% hybrid turret tracking Interceptor: -10% mass when using MWD or AB, -5% signature radius High: 4, 4 turrets and 0 launchers Med: 2 Low: 4 Powergrid: 40 CPU: 150 Or whatever that bonus is Tux is planning to give the Hyperion This is in line with my new scheme of how Gallente T2 should be done. Old scheme: Duvolle - Turrets and high-tech Roden - no clear aim CreoDron - drones New scheme: Duvolle - High-tech (mostly the cloakers and other advanced eq.) Roden - Turrets CreoDrone - Drones As you can see New Scheme > Old Scheme. Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.11 21:29:00 - [24] As for the Raptor (yes, I'm making a new post - the old one was running out of characters) the main problem is the same as with the Ares - it tries to do two things at the same time while it's secondary role is also sufficiently filled by it's bigger brother. Let's cut to the chase. I'll use a similar approach, but this time it's going to be a pronounced shield booster! (You SHOULD read this as - it's got lots of med slots so it can tackle properly) Raptor Frigate: +10% hybrid turret optimal range, +5% shield resistances Interceptor: +5% hybrid turret damage, -5% signature radius High: 4, 2 turrets, 2 launchers Med: 4 Low: 2 Powergrid: 35 CPU: 160 Yup, it's a tough sucker - for an interceptor. What sets it apart from the Stiletto, then? Well for one, it's slower. It's tougher. And it's got fewer low slots. Additionally, it's main weapon system takes cap, although it's so very little, but the drain is there. Hmm... this one might be a bit... Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
Altai Saker Omniscient Order Verisum Family	Posted - 2006.08.11 22:57:00 - [25] Originally by: Kalixa Hihro Originally by: Sangxianc Also, it doesn't really do anything the Taranis doesn't. some junk No offense but you don't seem to have a clue... The taranis is by FAR the better tackler, you can go with 1 20k and a web + rails and do excellent damage at the very edge of your lockrange, or you can go with 2 7.5k scrams and hold down targets that would otherwise have gotten away. The taranis also has better cpu and is able to fit itself up very well whereas you struggle to fit a good setup on an ares... The "fleet" setup you listed will run itself completely out of cap in like what 30 seconds with mwd and disruptor running?
Sangxianc Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.12 02:08:00 - [26] Originally by: LaCoHa Edited by: LaCoHa on 11/08/2006 19:59:58 I think the Ares is fine as it is. Its one of the few interceptors that can orbit at 15k (full MWD speed) while jamming with a 20k, and spamming missles (albeit not a ton of them, but certainly enoug to be annoying as hell). and it can do this forever with the right setup. not the best interceptor, but i really think its the most fun to fly - no to mention its amazing speed with 4 x nano's or overdrives. Lol. Crow does the missile thing about 10x better, and any other Interceptor will have amazing speeeeeeeed if you LOAD IT UP WITH SPEED MODS. Christ. And Kalixa Hihro, you're so wrong I didn't even have to correct you myself ¼_¼ (thanks Imode and Altai Saker). The Ares is simply gimpish. The only people who enjoy flying it are spacetramps who can't afford a Taranis and fools who like to use bad ships so they can look quirky and forever try to prevent it getting boosted. I'm convinced you do it just to get on my nerves. Change the missile bonus to a 10% range bonus, up the fittings by a little, -1 launcher, +1 turret. Add 10m^3 dronebay. Make it Enyo Red instead of Eris Pink. WHAM. A ship with a reason to exist.
Kai Jyokoroi 133rd Ghost Wing R i s e	Posted - 2006.08.12 02:27:00 - [27] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists give the malediction, ares , raptor and the stilletto a warpscrambler bonus. like range and other stuff. would make em fun to fly and useful again ;) Stiletto has a use. It has 4 midslots. It can fit a SEBO II as well as MWD + 2 scrams / web+scram. It is an excellent gang inty. _____________ The day I receive my first moderator forum-sig hijack is the day I realise I have won Eve.
Leon 026 Caldari Blood Inquisition	Posted - 2006.08.12 03:34:00 - [28] Originally by: Master OlavPancrazio Edited by: Master OlavPancrazio on 11/08/2006 21:02:07 Would anyone be interested if say these intercepters had a propulsion jamming bonus, mabye like 3% per level or something to both webbers and scrams range? Idea has been thrown around, and its been generally concluded that you'll have inties scrambling out of heavy nos range that'll be impossible to kill and will perma tackle the target. Personally, I would say no, the roles of the interceptor is fine as it is. Instead, the raptor's split-weapon system and ares' slot layout/dronebay (or lack thereof) needs to be looked into. ------------------------------- [ 2006.06.22 04:28:01 ] Leon 026 > My Crow dances like she's on ecstasy
Azerrad	Posted - 2006.08.12 06:23:00 - [29] Originally by: Master OlavPancrazio Edited by: Master OlavPancrazio on 11/08/2006 21:02:07 Would anyone be interested if say these intercepters had a propulsion jamming bonus, mabye like 3% per level or something to both webbers and scrams range? I'd say no to range since that is entering the recon ships area... A bonus to web/scram strength would be interesting though.
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.12 06:52:00 - [30] Clickeh my sigeh Raptor and Ares Fix
Hitomi Ayame Amarr Royal Knights of Khanid	Posted - 2006.08.12 07:29:00 - [31] Lots of talk about the Ares...not so much about the Malediction. Ares needs a boost, for sure, but so does the Malediction! There's absolutely nothing this ship can do that another interceptor can't do better. If we take a look at the lovely 'Khanid Mk. II' thread, we get some lovely ideas about where this ship could go. Armor tanking, missile spamming, sleek and black. I think it might be interesting to make it into a pure rocket ship. Less versatile than the Crow, but a little better at what it does. 4/3/3 with 3 launchers and a 10% EM rocket damage bonus per level. But most importantly, fix the damn thing so that its turrets aren't lopsided! - - - The Royal Knights of Khanid are now recruiting! Step up and serve God and Khanid today!
TuRtLe HeAd Apocalypse Enterprises	Posted - 2006.08.12 07:40:00 - [32] Edited by: TuRtLe HeAd on 12/08/2006 07:40:20 The Malediction got its boost a while ago, As did the Raptor, As a Direct result we are now seeing about 100% more of Both being used in fights. The Ares sill needs focus though, as its a Jack of No Trades Master of the Tech II Shuttle. The Crusader Certainly doesn't need boosting, its got the armour,Structure, the Speed and its Alot lighter that the Claw (Not sure I get that). Slot changes this late in the game for ships that are over 2 years old could be catastrophic for the older players. Im sure that when inties intitially came out (not 100% though), they requried inty level 1 and inty level 2 to fly them, Bring that back ! and make all teir 1 inties get Warp disruptor Cap reduction. (Cap requirements when fitting a 20k scram can be painful. 20-15 cap every cycle on a ship that has about 200 + MWD + Guns + Other stuff)
Hub Quantum Dark Synergy Inc. Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.12 07:56:00 - [33] Ares is without a doubt the worst interceptor, great for running small amounts of zyd or mega, bpos, etc, but thats about it. Just some information: Gallente Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 7.5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level Interceptor Skill Bonus: 5% Reduced signature Radius and 5% bonus to Thermal Missile Damage per level. fittingpowergrid output 30 MWlowslots 4 medslots 2 hislots 4 cpuoutput 150 tflauncher hardpoints 2 turret hardpoints 2 Obviously the split weapon systems (One of which is not a primary for gallente) hurt this ship something fierce, the 2 medslots also make it fairly unviable as a great tackler. (It can still do it, it's just not great at it.) Moving a high down and giving it three medslots would be fantabulous. It's PG is also extremely low for something that is supposed to be fitting four weapons for maximum viability. Personally I'd love to see the split weapons go away and either go three missiles or three turrets. But despite the fact that I haven't ever met a player that actually liked split weapon systems, the devs seem hellbent on it still. If devs are worried about DPS then move the missile bonus to something utilitarian like MWD cap reduction % a la thorax, or hybrid cap use, etc. If the devs absolutely refuse to touch this ship, then raise its cargo bay size so it can officially be the tech 2 shuttle of choice.
Hub Quantum Dark Synergy Inc. Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.12 07:58:00 - [34] Also, the taranis is traditionally a blaster boat due to it's speed, the ares, the faster ship, could make for a great rail inty with the proper tweaks from devs, but it does need something to contribute to that, the tracking bonus (Which the ship already has) and three turret hardpoints is a nice start.
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.08.12 08:36:00 - [35] I think the inties are alright as they are. Im against the raptor becoming entirely hybrid based, because then it'll just be a taranis, unless you give it an optimal bonus which would unbalance it. <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.12 09:14:00 - [36] Edited by: Ithildin on 12/08/2006 09:14:55 Originally by: Kai Lae Clickeh my sigeh While your fix adresses the Raptor, it does little to absolutely nothing for the Ares. Increased fitting will not make it better as long as there is a fundamental lack in role, specialization, and performance. The current Ares, and subsequently the Ares suggested by you, is without form. It does not have a role in which it can specialize. Since it doesn't have a specialization it is hard for it to perform well. Since it does not perform well it cannot be given any artificial role. At the moment there are two mayor roles in interceptors - damage or sieze-and-hold. The Ares with it's split weapon system, and the lack of compensation for it, cannot do the damage dealing role. Due to the Ares' absence of mid slots it cannot sieze-and-hold someone, either. In addition to this, as has been discussed, the Taranis can perform both the above roles very well, and as such the Ares needs to focus on a specific role and excel at it in order to become a valid ship, OR a new role needs be invented for it. One of the underlying problems is that we cannot suggest anything but a very slim area of focus for the Ares since it is of Roden Shipyard design - we cannot, for instance, suggest it to become a drone interceptor, sadly. In it's essence, this leaves us with two basic choices - suggest it to recieve 4 mid slots or suggest it to recieve increased damage potential above that of the Taranis. For the record, below is an outline for a drone interceptor. Ares (CreoDron design) Frigate: -5% MWD capacitor reduction, +5% hybrid turret damage Interceptor: +10% drone MWD velocity and hit points, -5% signature radius High: 3, 3 turrets and 0 launchers Mid: 3 Low: 3 Drone bay: 25 metrics Powergrid: 30 CPU: 150 Mass: 1,000,000.00 KG Velocity: 450 m/s Warp velocity: 13.5 AU/s The Ares class interceptor is one of the groundbreaking developments featured in recent CreoDron research breakthrough mainly in drone handling miniaturization, but also in drone micro warpdrive capacity. "This change in development from the traditional focus on drone targeting systems to drone combat speeds was a development we felt." Comments lead project scientist Belliard and continues "With the challenge of creating a high-speed combat vessel, it was the only natural direction to take" Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. The Ares interceptor features the most sophisticated CreoDron miniaturization and drone subsystem optimization technology available. Inspite of having a relatively large drone bay the miniaturization efforts have yielded light-weight interceptor that is highly suitable for high speed combat. Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
ELECTR0FREAK Eye of God	Posted - 2006.08.12 09:18:00 - [37] I've always believed that all the cheaper 'ceptors should be faster than the assault ceptors. Cheap 'ceptors should be more tackle oriented, with emphasis on mid slots and speed, assault 'cepters should be more focused on firepower and cap sustainability. -Electrofreak Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
Sangxianc Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.12 14:24:00 - [38] Originally by: Ithildin Droneterceptor! Hotter than hot, and a the thought of the Ares being green is almost giving me a stiffy, but I doubt it'll happen :p The Ares sucks and I wish CCP would change it.
Frools No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.08.12 14:34:00 - [39] Originally by: Hitomi Ayame Lots of talk about the Ares...not so much about the Malediction. Ares needs a boost, for sure, but so does the Malediction! ..... But most importantly, fix the damn thing so that its turrets aren't lopsided! tbh theres nothing wrong with the amarr ceptors, all their problems are with the guns small lasers need lower fitting and a small damage boost a maledictions damage output is pretty damn poor as it is and its doing pretty much the worst damage types you could want to against other frigates (plates = lots of armour with 60% or 70% em resist) crusader has same grid as a claw, now go look at autocannon grid needs compared to small pulses, that just makes no sense at all
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.12 14:47:00 - [40] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK I've always believed that all the cheaper 'ceptors should be faster than the assault ceptors. Cheap 'ceptors should be more tackle oriented, with emphasis on mid slots and speed, assault 'cepters should be more focused on firepower and cap sustainability. The Ares is the more expensive to build of the Gallentean pair, believe it or not. Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.12 14:51:00 - [41] Originally by: Frools Originally by: Hitomi Ayame Lots of talk about the Ares...not so much about the Malediction. Ares needs a boost, for sure, but so does the Malediction! ..... But most importantly, fix the damn thing so that its turrets aren't lopsided! tbh theres nothing wrong with the amarr ceptors, all their problems are with the guns small lasers need lower fitting and a small damage boost a maledictions damage output is pretty damn poor as it is and its doing pretty much the worst damage types you could want to against other frigates (plates = lots of armour with 60% or 70% em resist) crusader has same grid as a claw, now go look at autocannon grid needs compared to small pulses, that just makes no sense at all The fitting comment is only true if you consider Medium Beams. The other small lasers have appropriate fitting requirements. Additionally, ACs are reknowned for having very, very, forgiving requirements. As for damage, the important thing here is that a boost is not carried through to larger lasers. On the frigate level, EM damage is the worst because frigates do not have the slots for shield tanking. A frigate without propulsion jamming is a wasted frigate, and thus armour "tanks" are the only possible survival increaser - which hurts EM damage dealers. Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
Altai Saker Omniscient Order Verisum Family	Posted - 2006.08.12 14:55:00 - [42] Edited by: Altai Saker on 12/08/2006 15:04:47 so Ithildin? Dual light Beam do very little damage off a crusader as is, take alot of your grid and cpu (read almost all with a MWD + scramble/20k fitted) whereas the taranis can fit a full rack of 125mm(which are more like Medium Beams than DLB) + 2 damage mods as well as a web + scram with cpu leftover... Are the fitting reqs really fine?
Savion Mercarte	Posted - 2006.08.12 14:59:00 - [43] All a crusader can use are gatling pulse or dual pulse unless you want to stick on a lot of MAPCs. Gatling pulse seems the only way to go because a crusader really needs a plate.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.12 15:19:00 - [44] Originally by: Altai Saker Edited by: Altai Saker on 12/08/2006 15:05:24 Edited by: Altai Saker on 12/08/2006 15:04:47 so Ithildin? Dual light Beam do very little damage off a crusader as is, take alot of your grid and cpu (read almost all with a MWD + scramble/20k fitted) whereas the taranis can fit a full rack of 125mm(which are more like Medium Beams than DLB) + 2 damage mods as well as a web + scram... Are the fitting reqs really fine? Hmm? 125mm Railgun II and Dual Light Beam II take the same amount of powergrid! Additionally, Gallente ships have on avarage slightly smaller powergrid than Amarr ships. Dual Light Beam II also use less CPU, although CPU is the relative strength of the Gallenteans. Fine, if you want to argue specific cases, but isn't it better to adress those than to screw everything up for all the other ships? P.S. That fitting isn't possible on the Taranis without CPU increasing module, which is the missing low slot module in your descriptor. Granted that the Crusader needs to use two fitting modules (Ares, anyone?), but case stands - don't mess up entire classes of ships when specific manipulation can be done to achieve greater effect. Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
Maya Rkell Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.08.12 15:28:00 - [45] Um. Not so.. Rail Tarranis: 3125mm mm II 1 <empty> 1MWD 1web 1disruptor 2damage mods 1*cap power relay FITS. I know, I used to fly it. It used to kill Claws. Now, Claws using barrage kill it.
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.12 15:32:00 - [46] Originally by: Ithildin The fitting comment is only true if you consider Medium Beams. The other small lasers have appropriate fitting requirements. Additionally, ACs are reknowned for having very, very, forgiving requirements. Nope. Compare damage dealt by: 150mm ac, small gatling laser, dual light pulse and next compare their fittings. Not only 150mm is WAY easier to fit than both lasers it also deals more (gatling) or equal (dual) damage. And it doesnt use cap (which is pretty good on frigs - you can use scrambler+guns almost non-stop). IMO both gatling and dual pulse should lose abt 1-2pg from fitting reqs. Med pulses could also get some help (especially in PG department cause 4x dual pulse + heatsink are better than 4x med pulses and fit way easier) - but they are heaviest of frig guns and dont have comparable autocannon to check fittings. Ah and when we are at this. If you still think lasers deal more damage: put 150/200mm AC's and gatling/dual pulse on punisher (no bonus to guns except for lower cap). And then tell me what you would prefer to use: more damaging/no cap ACs or using cap, less damage (+EM mixed in) lasers.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.12 16:24:00 - [47] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Ithildin The fitting comment is only true if you consider Medium Beams. The other small lasers have appropriate fitting requirements. Additionally, ACs are reknowned for having very, very, forgiving requirements. Nope. Compare damage dealt by: 150mm ac, small gatling laser, dual light pulse and next compare their fittings. Not only 150mm is WAY easier to fit than both lasers it also deals more (gatling) or equal (dual) damage. And it doesnt use cap (which is pretty good on frigs - you can use scrambler+guns almost non-stop). IMO both gatling and dual pulse should lose abt 1-2pg from fitting reqs. Med pulses could also get some help (especially in PG department cause 4x dual pulse + heatsink are better than 4x med pulses and fit way easier) - but they are heaviest of frig guns and dont have comparable autocannon to check fittings. Ah and when we are at this. If you still think lasers deal more damage: put 150/200mm AC's and gatling/dual pulse on punisher (no bonus to guns except for lower cap). And then tell me what you would prefer to use: more damaging/no cap ACs or using cap, less damage (+EM mixed in) lasers. Ok, I've had it on this one. You're stupid. First of all, read my entire post. Make sure you get all words. I wrote that ACs are known for having very LOW fittings. I'm strongly implying that ACs have TOO LOW fittings. Of 6 turret classes, it is the only one with fittings so low. Second of all, did you even bother reading my second paragraph. Rhethorical question - no you didn't. Hence the stupid comment. It's stupid, really stupid, to take one part of a message, and then attack the writer of that message for not considering what he adressed in the second part of the message. Allow me to elaborate: Originally by: Ithildin As for damage, the important thing here is that a boost is not carried through to larger lasers. On the frigate level, EM damage is the worst because frigates do not have the slots for shield tanking. A frigate without propulsion jamming is a wasted frigate, and thus armour "tanks" are the only possible survival increaser - which hurts EM damage dealers. P.S. 150mm AC is, incidentally, comparable to the Dual Light Pulse Laser since both are the middling weapons of their repsective categories. Is it so shocking that they deal approximatly the same damage? Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.12 16:32:00 - [48] Originally by: Ithildin While your fix adresses the Raptor, it does little to absolutely nothing for the Ares. Increased fitting will not make it better as long as there is a fundamental lack in role, specialization, and performance. The current Ares, and subsequently the Ares suggested by you, is without form. It does not have a role in which it can specialize. Since it doesn't have a specialization it is hard for it to perform well. Since it does not perform well it cannot be given any artificial role. I agree that it would be a better ship if you didn't have the split weapon systems, but currently it seems CCP wants it that way. Nearly all Roden designs save the Oneiros have this issue. Given that, the biggest problem with the ship is the powergrid, as anyone with one knows. As long as you have the skills (read - missile skills) it works passibly well as a long range interceptor. Because of the drones and the damage bonus the taranis is the short range interceptor, and logic says that the ares makes a better long range boat, as it is faster and better able to dictate range. If it was possible to actually arm it with anything but 75mm II and rocket launchers without a grid mod, it might be somewhat worthwhile. I don't think it'll ever be that popular as a interceptor among gallente pilots because of the required missile skills which are a rarity; only people like myself would likely use it. Even given that, it might be nice if you could actually fit it the way it should be, with standard (II) launchers and rails, without having to use 2 MAPC. The only real mystery here is why CCP continues to pay no attention to these ships. All the issues raised in my original post really make no sense, especially when you look at the powergrid mystery which really kills these ships more than anything. As for the maladiction and the crusader, I've never flown those so I can't comment on their strengths and weaknesses. Raptor and Ares Fix
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.12 16:34:00 - [49] Originally by: Ithildin The fitting comment is only true if you consider Medium Beams. The other small lasers have appropriate fitting requirements. Additionally, ACs are reknowned for having very, very, forgiving requirements. Here's an excellent question that relates to all amarr frigates: Can anyone give a good reason why the fittings for medium beam lasers are so extreme and out of line when compared to 150mm rails and 280mm artillery? Raptor and Ares Fix
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.12 18:02:00 - [50] Originally by: Ithildin Ok, I've had it on this one. You're stupid. Nice start - guess i can call you retarded from now on so we can talk on same level? Originally by: Ithildin First of all, read my entire post. Make sure you get all words. I wrote that ACs are known for having very LOW fittings. I'm strongly implying that ACs have TOO LOW fittings. Of 6 turret classes, it is the only one with fittings so low. No you never implied this. You just confirmed it - same as i did it. Originally by: Ithildin Second of all, did you even bother reading my second paragraph. Rhethorical question - no you didn't. Hence the stupid comment. It's stupid, really stupid, to take one part of a message, and then attack the writer of that message for not considering what he adressed in the second part of the message. Actually i was discussing. Maybe stop reading "Alliance smack subforums" so you will know that most ppl like to DISCUSS not ATTACK. Originally by: Ithildin As for damage, the important thing here is that a boost is not carried through to larger lasers. On the frigate level, EM damage is the worst because frigates do not have the slots for shield tanking. A frigate without propulsion jamming is a wasted frigate, and thus armour "tanks" are the only possible survival increaser - which hurts EM damage dealers. P.S. 150mm AC is, incidentally, comparable to the Dual Light Pulse Laser since both are the middling weapons of their repsective categories. Is it so shocking that they deal approximatly the same damage? Like i said above. It is shocking that dual pulses deal comparable damage to 150mm's but have MUCH worse fittings. 150mm's are weapon of choice when you need to save grid. For lasers it is gatling laser - which still eats way more grid having lower damage overall. And really - chill out. Go drink some cofee or whatever, go for walk and then sit and reply to posts.
Maya Rkell Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.08.12 18:07:00 - [51] ..and has more range, etc. It's not one-sided. (Barrage breaks this relationship, yes. T2 amo is broken and all.)
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.12 18:09:00 - [52] Then, please, by all means don't quote me since you aren't really replying to me, Deva. Or make an effort to show that it's not directed at me. Please read your post again, and then edit it so that it shows exactly what you are adressing to me and when you are using my comments for effect. The way it reads now, it is not far fetched at all to assume that everything is adressed at my comments. Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
Oisin Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2006.08.12 18:27:00 - [53] It's been said before but it's worth repeating - the Ares is a good Tech II shuttle. It's marginally less useful in combat than a Bestower with EW in its mid slots. What would make the Ares unique/useful/intersting? I'm assuming it stays a Roden ship and therefore can't ditch missiles completely, but we don't want to turn it into a Gallente Crow either. Here are a few ideas: A: 3 missile slots, 1 turret, 2 mids, 4 lows, no drone bay, frig and inty bonuses to missiles instead of split. This makes it a damage dealing missile boat (fit BCUs in lows), but it still can't tackle as effectively as a Crow. B: Existing 4/2/4 slot layout and hardpoints, 25m3 drone bay (fits one Web Berserker or 5 light drones), same bonuses. That makes it either a damage dealing drone boat or a more effective tackler that relies on a single webber drone. C: 3/5/3 slot layout, 2 turrets 2 launchers, no drone bay. 50 extra CPU, frigate bonuses to hybrid damage and missile flight time. Interceptor bonus to sensor dampener strength (this being the Gallente choice for EW) and the usual sig radius reduction. This makes it possible to orbit at range and dampen larger ships so they can't lock you. Damage output will be very poor. So there are at least these three possibilities, each with its unique strengths and each with a weakness to compensate. Wreckless Abandon is recruiting
kessah Caldari Blood Corsairs	Posted - 2006.08.12 18:43:00 - [54] I think i agree with the the non assault ceptors being more for speed and tackling. but tbh thats what the interceptor class is for anyways. I think that they should mirror the other in the racial class. taranis a blaster boat mostly, the Ares all rail or missle boat it does tho need 3~4 mids. The Raptor well i read above that its said it would be too like a ranis if it had all hybrids well thats fine since its caldari frig 5 u train for and not gallente frig 5. Raptor tho seriously need a pg boost it rediculous fitting 2x mapc to fit anything decent on it. The sader does need a boost im sorry but its 2mids and lack of dmg with em and therm is just poor. Its very hard to fit it with beams and any sort of tank which with 2 mid slots i assume it should be able to either hit harder or tank somewhat with abit of range to its guns. The malediction just make it the amarr version of the crow seriously another race should have a rocket ceptor. Stilleto and Claw are perfectly spot on imho. Altho they are the extremes of Damage or tackling which is what i like. -------------------------------------------------------- Forever Pirate
dabster Minmatar Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.08.12 20:41:00 - [55] Stiletto sure as hell dont need a single thing fixed, its got 4 meds and is the most excellent tackler in game. ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click.
Auldare S.A.S	Posted - 2006.08.12 20:53:00 - [56] Edited by: Auldare on 12/08/2006 20:54:25 Only ceptors i use are the malediction and raptor, sometimes the stiletto. They are great for what they are, support tacklers, chasing down targets etc the damage dealing ceptors are more for solo/small group ops. imho the warp speed, scan res etc for the 'lower' ceptors make up for the hybrids bonuses they get. Think of it this way, the hybrid bonuses allow for 2 types of fittings that can be worked around on. Use one system or another and then think a lil about it, you can come up with some great tacklers p.s. the warp speed multiplier should have an effect on warp acc/decel not just flat speed, that would really healp them out ================================================
Altai Saker Omniscient Order Verisum Family	Posted - 2006.08.12 21:34:00 - [57] Hi Ithildin, I just thought I would point out something you already know, the DLB and the 125 use the same grid, but the crusader has to fit 4 and also the damage from DLB is more on par with that of 75mm Gatling Rails.
IamBen Caldari M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.12 22:11:00 - [58] The ares is pretty good because its very fast. My only gripe with the ares is that its so stupid to have an interceptor with more structure than armor or shields. I can see maybe on a battleship because you can use a damage control but honestly on a ceptor having 600 structure and like 400 armor is just stupid. Thats what really needs to be fixed.
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.08.12 22:33:00 - [59] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists give the malediction, ares , raptor and the stilletto a warpscrambler bonus That's the most sensible change possible and has been stated many many times for monthes. ____________________ Darko1107 > does anything in ascn space have tech II fittings? Quillan Rage > Iron ships
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.12 22:40:00 - [60] Originally by: Maya Rkell That's going to do unfortunately overpowering things to the Amarr AF's... Hmm, yes. It would push the Vengeance slightly over the top. The Retribution would still suffer from that terrible lack of mid slots. However, you are right in that the AFs would be dealing pretty godly damage. Problem is you've got a whole set of ships that doesn't deal competative damage. Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
Maya Rkell Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.08.12 23:16:00 - [61] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 12/08/2006 23:17:46 Originally by: Sorja Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists give the malediction, ares , raptor and the stilletto a warpscrambler bonus That's the most sensible change possible and has been stated many many times for monthes. Sure, IF they were tacklers. Per (non-stillto) current usage, per both RL and Eve descriptions and per CCP, they do not. If anything, the Stilleto should be changed to be more offensive and less tackling focused. Tacklers? Make a NEW sort of T2 frigate, based off the lower tier frigs, no more than 2 highs with no bonuses, tacking bonuses and the ability to use a module which allows following in warp... Ithildin, I'm more concerned with the allready high-damage Vengence.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.12 23:28:00 - [62] Ares has one good use if setup right, 20km scrambler for hunting gangs... I remember when we had a gang of inties chasing a Geddon, we got him at a gate and once on him he send all our inties back to cloning station with 2 faction smartbombs. I was the only one in the ares orbiting at 17km waiting for our raven to f. him up. The ares saved my hide that day Also with 2 MAPCs u can fit standart launchers and 150mm rails for dog fighting, beats amarr inties easyly. I really think Ares needs a fitting boost, but no change in the slots really. What really needs looking are the Amarr inties (or small lasers) IMO, since they simply suck. Raptor: I really have no idea, just flew this ship once for the sake of flying it; seems it suffers the same problems the ares suffers.
Altai Saker Omniscient Order Verisum Family	Posted - 2006.08.13 03:57:00 - [63] I think you're forgetting that the crusader does not have 2 explosive drones Ithildin ;)
Master OlavPancrazio	Posted - 2006.08.13 04:06:00 - [64] following ships in warp is a great idea, especially if it was introduced as an inty only skill
booh	Posted - 2006.08.13 07:15:00 - [65] Edited by: booh on 13/08/2006 07:15:45 As far as i know, interceptors were built to give the players a "cheap" and fast pvp ship. This was OK until assault frigs came into the game. Now none of them has a real role. Assault frigs are meant to be anti support, same as interdictors. Oh no, wait, same roles for both classes?! And if you get destroyers into anti support basket of joy... and then people wonder why destroyers don't have a use... Interdictors should be able to tackle stuff and keep stuff in place for others to kill. Instead they do more dmg than some assault frigates, and are cheaper or same price. Guess what i'm using as anti-support? Instead of boosting ares, raptor, malediction, they should just nerf crow, taranis, claw and make them more interceptors than dmg dealers, with some tackler bonuses instead od dmg. Stiletto is the perfect example of an interceptor.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.13 10:22:00 - [66] Edited by: Ithildin on 13/08/2006 10:22:25 Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists give the malediction, ares , raptor and the stilletto a warpscrambler bonus Tacklers? Make a NEW sort of T2 frigate, based off the lower tier frigs, no more than 2 highs with no bonuses, tacking bonuses and the ability to use a module which allows following in warp... This is something that is needed, and is exactly like most people use the current interceptors as since interceptors are the only ships that are fast enough to perform well when tackling. The problem with designing a T2 tackler frigate is that there's only so many bonuses that can be aplied. You need to figure out four of them. One additional problem is to come up with a good name for the ship class. The two ideal names (interceptor and interdictor) have both been taken. Adrasteia (Inescapable) Hull: Maulus Developer: Duvolle Laboratories Gallente Frigate: +40% warp scramble strength per level Black Ops: -#% Mass when using MWD or AB per level (same as Hyperion's got atm) Static bonus: -99% CPU use for Warp Field Analysers (this module requires high slot) Speed: 400 m/s Weight: 1,100,000.00 Kg High: 3 (2 turrets) Mid: 3 Low: 3 Scrambler strength: 6 Disruptor strength: 3 Barghest (A mythological dog) Hull: Griffin Developer: Kaalaakiota Caldari Frigate: +20% warp scramble range per level Black Ops: +5% Shield resistances Static bonus: -99% CPU use for Warp Field Analysers (this module requires high slot) Speed: 370 m/s Weight: 1,100,000.00 Kg High: 3 (2 launchers) Mid: 5 Low: 1 Scrambler range: 15km Disruptor range: 40km You get the drift... One Black Ops bonus is missing, because I quite frankly couldn't come up with one that's good enough. Borrow the interceptor signature bonus? Amarr frig: 20% scrambler strength and 20% web range Amarr BOps: +5% armour resistances Amarr mids: 3 Minm frig: 10% scrambler range and 20% web range Minm BOps: +5% ship velocity Minm mids: 4 Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
kessah Caldari Blood Corsairs	Posted - 2006.08.13 13:14:00 - [67] its a very nice idea Ithildin, i dont tho like the following in warp idea tho. Perhaps when u lock a target with a ship you could have some sort of homing device on the target which lasts for a minute or so that can tell u its location Planet 1 moon 3 for example, but its distance to which it warp in at is still unknown. The module for this tho must have a small range else it completly ruin's most victims chance of escape. The scramble strength perhaps could have +1 to warp disruptor strength per level? seems slightly overpowered tho i think. The bonus for your ship idea tho could simply be 5~10% bonus to warp scramble duration per level just so it reduces the cap used for a warp disruptor. Its better to go CCP's rule of thumb on new things tho, having them fairly pre-nerfed to see how things go. Very nice idea tho, its cool how you thought of everything already with the name and such tis impressive. -------------------------------------------------------- Forever Pirate

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