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kessah Caldari Blood Corsairs	Posted - 2006.08.11 16:19:00 - [1] Raptor, Ares and tbh both amarr ceptors. They all need boosting and some sort of introduction to create a detrimental effect on rockets with transversal. Turrets suffer and rockets dont its as simply as that. All ceptors need to cut there mwd when orbiting a target except the crow and other rocket ceptors ares and malediction 'sometimes the later two are used as a rocket ship' Post some changes to the Ares Raptor and The Amarr ceptors, Slot changes, PG\CPU, Turret\missles layouts and bonuses. Lets have it guys i know most of u think CCP have forgetten about these ships lets make sure they dont. -------------------------------------------------------- Forever Pirate
Savion Mercarte	Posted - 2006.08.11 16:27:00 - [2] Edited by: Savion Mercarte on 11/08/2006 16:28:06 Edited by: Savion Mercarte on 11/08/2006 16:26:40 I dont know about the others, but Crusader needs a few more PG. It's hard to fit anything on it even with adv weapon upgrades and other skills. Malediction needs something other than +EM missle damage. Maybe increased cap recharge, or something actually useful. +damage on a secondary weapon, and a bad +damage bonus is lame. They both could benefit with slightly higher capacitors. Interceptors in general are pretty weak, except the taranis and crow. =\|
fmercury Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.11 16:30:00 - [3] Edited by: fmercury on 11/08/2006 16:30:43 Crusader needs a boost? News to me. Other than the sader, the rest are pretty useless though. As for the malediction/non-beam sader, the issue is with small pulses sucking*****, and nothing to do with the fundamental design of the ships. - although that EM missile damage could use a looking at. As for raptor/ares, it's with split weapons systems. Both can be used well, it just takes more specialization to do so.
Sangxianc Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.11 16:36:00 - [4] Originally by: fmercury As for raptor/ares, it's with split weapons systems. Both can be used well, it just takes more specialization to do so. Problem with the Ares is that it's using the wrong weapon for its race. Degeneres animos timor arguit Fear reveals ignoble spirits
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.11 16:39:00 - [5] Originally by: fmercury Edited by: fmercury on 11/08/2006 16:30:43 Crusader needs a boost? News to me. Other than the sader, the rest are pretty useless though. As for the malediction/non-beam sader, the issue is with small pulses sucking*****, and nothing to do with the fundamental design of the ships. - although that EM missile damage could use a looking at. As for raptor/ares, it's with split weapons systems. Both can be used well, it just takes more specialization to do so. Problem is that it cannot web and scramble. Pretty much same as claw. That's the reason why claw/crusader are like 50% cheaper than crow/taranis. --------------------- Looking for frentix? Mail me.
Lord Nidec Livius Legal and Social Consortium	Posted - 2006.08.11 16:40:00 - [6] Edited by: Lord Nidec on 11/08/2006 16:43:06 From an Amarr perspective, Gatling Pulse Lasers need their fittings reduced to be in line with 75mm Rail / 125mm Autocannon. Medium Beam Lasers need their fittings reduced a bit further to something realistic on anything other than a Retribution. I think the Crusader is ok other than this. The reason it's gimped in my opinion is that a Taranis can fit a plate and a damage control and have incredible hp with good damage, but the Crusader can only have good damage with average hp. GPL change would help this. Possunt, quia posse uidentur They can conquer, who believe they can
Murauke	Posted - 2006.08.11 16:42:00 - [7] pretty much every inty that has only 2 midslots sucks at pvping other inties... the claw needs a boost the most because tranversal sucks the most weapon type wise, and without a web your screwed
Rexthor Hammerfists Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.11 16:42:00 - [8] give the malediction, ares , raptor and the stilletto a warpscrambler bonus. like range and other stuff. would make em fun to fly and useful again ;) - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.08.11 16:44:00 - [9] Crusaders are fine, intie pilots shouldn't dogfight other intie pilots anyways. Sig removed, inappropriate content - Cortes
kessah Caldari Blood Corsairs	Posted - 2006.08.11 17:22:00 - [10] Originally by: Berrik Radhok Crusaders are fine, intie pilots shouldn't dogfight other intie pilots anyways. Why the hell not? its always done. O i get it unless your a ranis or crow and possibly with the claw. The Sader needs a boost to it's dmg tbh, i vote for a 7.5% dmg bonus bring it in line with the ranis. -------------------------------------------------------- Forever Pirate

Imode Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.11 17:42:00 - [11] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: fmercury Edited by: fmercury on 11/08/2006 16:30:43 Crusader needs a boost? News to me. Other than the sader, the rest are pretty useless though. As for the malediction/non-beam sader, the issue is with small pulses sucking*****, and nothing to do with the fundamental design of the ships. - although that EM missile damage could use a looking at. As for raptor/ares, it's with split weapons systems. Both can be used well, it just takes more specialization to do so. Problem is that it cannot web and scramble. Pretty much same as claw. That's the reason why claw/crusader are like 50% cheaper than crow/taranis. Then again, the Claw has a ridiculous powergrid and can be quite a powerful ship with the correct setup. Likewise, so can the Crusader. It seems the dev set out to make two types of interceptors for each race, a tackler and a damage dealer. For most races, this works out pretty well. Minmatar: Stiletto - Tackler Claw - Damage Dealer Amarr: Malediction - Tackler Crusader - Damage Dealer Caldari: Raptor - Tackler Crow - Damage Dealer Then we come to the Gallente which in my opinion is just completely messed up. Is the Ares the tackler? It is faster than the Taranis and has a greater targetting resolution, but has only 2 mids. So is the Ares the damage dealer? It has 4 highs and 4 lows, yet it suffers from an extremely limited powergrid and a split weapons system with split bonuses. On the other hand, the Taranis is a capable tackler with 3 mids. It has only 3 weapon-capable hi-slots compared to 4 for the Ares, but benefits from a unified double-hybrid damage bonus. Essentially, every interceptor has a good role except the Ares which is outclassed by the Taranis in almost every useful way. ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Frools Killson Corp	Posted - 2006.08.11 17:45:00 - [12] Originally by: kessah Why the hell not? its always done. O i get it unless your a ranis or crow and possibly with the claw. The Sader needs a boost to it's dmg tbh, i vote for a 7.5% dmg bonus bring it in line with the ranis. qft, no reason you shouldnt dogfight in ceptors tbh sader is fine, small lasers aren't, small lasers need a bit of a damage boost ranis needs its slot layout swapped with ares to bring it into line with the other armour tanking combat ceptors the other ceptors (ares, malediction, stilleto, raptor) should get some kind of tackling bonus this divides the ceptors into combat/damage (2 mids + damage, cept crow, dunno what to do about that tbh) and tackling (3 mids + tackle) thats what i think should be done with ceptors anyway
Maya Rkell Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.08.11 17:54:00 - [13] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 11/08/2006 17:54:16 LUKEC, and the Claw certainly kills stuff nicely... What the Amarr ceptors CAN'T do is fight Claws. They're good at most other things.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.08.11 17:59:00 - [14] Edited by: welsh wizard on 11/08/2006 17:59:44 Erm the Crusader's frekkin awesome! Would love to see the Raptor as a rail ship. :D
Leon 026 Caldari Blood Inquisition	Posted - 2006.08.11 19:44:00 - [15] Edited by: Leon 026 on 11/08/2006 19:51:10 Stop suggesting slot changes on interceptors other than the Ares, they're fine as they are. Only interceptors that need looking at is the raptor and ares, and both have potential to be inty-killers if you know how to set them up right. Ares most definately needs the drone bay that the ranis has. ------------------------------- [ 2006.06.22 04:28:01 ] Leon 026 > My Crow dances like she's on ecstasy
LaCoHa Acerbus Vindictum	Posted - 2006.08.11 20:00:00 - [16] Edited by: LaCoHa on 11/08/2006 19:59:58 I think the Ares is fine as it is. Its one of the few interceptors that can orbit at 15k (full MWD speed) while jamming with a 20k, and spamming missles (albeit not a ton of them, but certainly enoug to be annoying as hell). and it can do this forever with the right setup. not the best interceptor, but i really think its the most fun to fly - no to mention its amazing speed with 4 x nano's or overdrives.
Wild Rho Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.08.11 20:13:00 - [17] The crusader is fine in general, as somone said, it's the small beams themselves that are the problem requiring far too much powergrid for their size. The only 2 things that bug me in a sader is how both the stiletto and claws seemed designed more or less perfectly to kill amarr inties (80% natural EM resistance, generally faster etc) and that missile inties don't have to worry about their transversal speeds in order to do damage, although I don't have a solution to balance it out. WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your ass will be laminated. - Jennie Marlboro
Altai Saker Omniscient Order Verisum Family	Posted - 2006.08.11 20:35:00 - [18] Small beams suck ass, the crusader has way too low cpu (IMO) The ares... wowza, what a pile. They shoudl go back to the original design concept for the ares changes, aka 3 high 4 mid 3 low (or whatever it was 4 mids is the only thing that matters) Also why does the taranis get a drone bay? Shouldnt the ares be the one with the drones?
Kalixa Hihro	Posted - 2006.08.11 20:47:00 - [19] Originally by: Sangxianc Also, it doesn't really do anything the Taranis doesn't. Except be the ideal tackler out of the two. o.O The purpose of a ceptor is to get stuff locked down after it catches them. The taranis can't get out of it's own way so fails miserably in both of these areas unless it's chasing frigs or bigger or locking cruisers and bigger out of the gate. The ares: 1. locks faster 2. flys faster (check out the speed on both) 3. warps faster (13.9 AU/s vs 9 AU/s) 4. has a smaller sig radius, so tends to live longer against large ships. 5. if you train your missile skills, probably does more damage(I have a while to go there) If you fit a dread guristas disruptor, you can orbit any battleship at 22km and not get hit by torps or any other gun and have nothing to fear from NOS. The ares is probably the most underrated cepter in the game, unless you are fighting other cepters. I've flown both and the taranis is shiite unless you don't have the skills to fly the ares well. The taranis is a solo pwnmobile in 1v1, killing some cruisers, and other cepters if you get lucky, but in it's role, as an interceptor, it sucks. If you are fighing in a fleet, you are better off saving your money and getting a real interceptor. Fleet ceptor setup: Hi: 2x125mm II, 2x Malkuth rocket launchers (low cpu) or missile launchers your pref. Mid: 1mn MWD (or gistii for small gangs), good named 20km disruptor (or dread guristas 24km for small gangs) low: 2x nanofiber internal structure I's, signal amplifier II, cap power relay Save the blasteranis for solo work. The Ares is the high class "interceptor". The taranis is a slightly faster, harder to hit incursus with a few gunnery bonuses. They are cheaper, if you can fly an all tech ii ares with signal amp ii, actually try it out and see if you don't get more stuff "intercepted" in an ares. there's nothing low class about the ares. You just need to use the right tools for the job, and be an interceptor, not weak assault frig, to see it's beauty. -Kal /----------------------------------------------------------------------------------/ My opinion in no way represents that of my corp or anyone I am associated with, and is probably entirely wrong.
Stamm Amarr GALAXIAN	Posted - 2006.08.11 20:49:00 - [20] All they're interested in is cheap drink, living off the state, avoiding work and getting pregnant at 15.

Master OlavPancrazio	Posted - 2006.08.11 21:00:00 - [21] Edited by: Master OlavPancrazio on 11/08/2006 21:02:07 Would anyone be interested if say these intercepters had a propulsion jamming bonus, mabye like 3% per level or something to both webbers and scrams range?
Imode Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.11 21:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Kalixa Hihro The ares: 1. locks faster 2. flys faster (check out the speed on both) 3. warps faster (13.9 AU/s vs 9 AU/s) 4. has a smaller sig radius, so tends to live longer against large ships. 5. if you train your missile skills, probably does more damage(I have a while to go there) The Taranis: 1. locks sufficiently fast to tackle 2. flys pretty damn fast itself 3. warps fast (9 AU/s vs. 3AU/s) 4. has a small sig radius which actually means nothing when you're firing your MWD 5. has a double damage bonus to 3 turrets which completely outclasses 1 damage bonus to 2 guns, and another 2 2 launchers Yes, the Ares is a great little ship if you're tackling something in the middle of nowhere. I was impressed once when I chased a shuttle into a long warp to a planet and came out of warp before him and killed him. But then there was that one time where I caught a Badger off insta at a gate. Except I didn't really catch him at all becauase he hit his afterburner and he was gone. ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.11 21:19:00 - [23] Actually, Ares does the least damage of all interceptors when using comparable weapons and fittings (only takes one damage mod and any of the other 'ceptors do more damage) bar the Raptor (which can actually tackle). The Taranis is an all-rounder interceptor. It's Duvolle Laboratories, which are the main turret and high-tech Gallentean producers oddly enough. For some reason Roden Shipyards got styled as some sort of missile ship producer, and for the life of me I don't know how on earth they managed to get any design contracts with that philosophy. Going by their track record, they're also obviously doing something wrong since nearly none of their ships are actually performing anything worth mentioning. The Ares has nearly everything set up for becoming a great damage dealer, all it needs is some more weapon systems and the fittings for them. Sadly, this seems to break some sort of symmetry, giving a ship more slots than others. In either case. Here's an Ares after I've assassinated the Roden Shipyards designers and replaced them with clones that are controlled via my advanced drone AI scripts (sort of high-jacked from rogue drones, so don't give the scientists any weapons whatever you do): Ares Frigate: +5% Hybrid turret damage, +7.5% hybrid turret tracking Interceptor: -10% mass when using MWD or AB, -5% signature radius High: 4, 4 turrets and 0 launchers Med: 2 Low: 4 Powergrid: 40 CPU: 150 Or whatever that bonus is Tux is planning to give the Hyperion This is in line with my new scheme of how Gallente T2 should be done. Old scheme: Duvolle - Turrets and high-tech Roden - no clear aim CreoDron - drones New scheme: Duvolle - High-tech (mostly the cloakers and other advanced eq.) Roden - Turrets CreoDrone - Drones As you can see New Scheme > Old Scheme. Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.11 21:29:00 - [24] As for the Raptor (yes, I'm making a new post - the old one was running out of characters) the main problem is the same as with the Ares - it tries to do two things at the same time while it's secondary role is also sufficiently filled by it's bigger brother. Let's cut to the chase. I'll use a similar approach, but this time it's going to be a pronounced shield booster! (You SHOULD read this as - it's got lots of med slots so it can tackle properly) Raptor Frigate: +10% hybrid turret optimal range, +5% shield resistances Interceptor: +5% hybrid turret damage, -5% signature radius High: 4, 2 turrets, 2 launchers Med: 4 Low: 2 Powergrid: 35 CPU: 160 Yup, it's a tough sucker - for an interceptor. What sets it apart from the Stiletto, then? Well for one, it's slower. It's tougher. And it's got fewer low slots. Additionally, it's main weapon system takes cap, although it's so very little, but the drain is there. Hmm... this one might be a bit... Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
Altai Saker Omniscient Order Verisum Family	Posted - 2006.08.11 22:57:00 - [25] Originally by: Kalixa Hihro Originally by: Sangxianc Also, it doesn't really do anything the Taranis doesn't. some junk No offense but you don't seem to have a clue... The taranis is by FAR the better tackler, you can go with 1 20k and a web + rails and do excellent damage at the very edge of your lockrange, or you can go with 2 7.5k scrams and hold down targets that would otherwise have gotten away. The taranis also has better cpu and is able to fit itself up very well whereas you struggle to fit a good setup on an ares... The "fleet" setup you listed will run itself completely out of cap in like what 30 seconds with mwd and disruptor running?
Sangxianc Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.12 02:08:00 - [26] Originally by: LaCoHa Edited by: LaCoHa on 11/08/2006 19:59:58 I think the Ares is fine as it is. Its one of the few interceptors that can orbit at 15k (full MWD speed) while jamming with a 20k, and spamming missles (albeit not a ton of them, but certainly enoug to be annoying as hell). and it can do this forever with the right setup. not the best interceptor, but i really think its the most fun to fly - no to mention its amazing speed with 4 x nano's or overdrives. Lol. Crow does the missile thing about 10x better, and any other Interceptor will have amazing speeeeeeeed if you LOAD IT UP WITH SPEED MODS. Christ. And Kalixa Hihro, you're so wrong I didn't even have to correct you myself ¼_¼ (thanks Imode and Altai Saker). The Ares is simply gimpish. The only people who enjoy flying it are spacetramps who can't afford a Taranis and fools who like to use bad ships so they can look quirky and forever try to prevent it getting boosted. I'm convinced you do it just to get on my nerves. Change the missile bonus to a 10% range bonus, up the fittings by a little, -1 launcher, +1 turret. Add 10m^3 dronebay. Make it Enyo Red instead of Eris Pink. WHAM. A ship with a reason to exist.
Kai Jyokoroi 133rd Ghost Wing R i s e	Posted - 2006.08.12 02:27:00 - [27] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists give the malediction, ares , raptor and the stilletto a warpscrambler bonus. like range and other stuff. would make em fun to fly and useful again ;) Stiletto has a use. It has 4 midslots. It can fit a SEBO II as well as MWD + 2 scrams / web+scram. It is an excellent gang inty. _____________ The day I receive my first moderator forum-sig hijack is the day I realise I have won Eve.
Leon 026 Caldari Blood Inquisition	Posted - 2006.08.12 03:34:00 - [28] Originally by: Master OlavPancrazio Edited by: Master OlavPancrazio on 11/08/2006 21:02:07 Would anyone be interested if say these intercepters had a propulsion jamming bonus, mabye like 3% per level or something to both webbers and scrams range? Idea has been thrown around, and its been generally concluded that you'll have inties scrambling out of heavy nos range that'll be impossible to kill and will perma tackle the target. Personally, I would say no, the roles of the interceptor is fine as it is. Instead, the raptor's split-weapon system and ares' slot layout/dronebay (or lack thereof) needs to be looked into. ------------------------------- [ 2006.06.22 04:28:01 ] Leon 026 > My Crow dances like she's on ecstasy
Azerrad	Posted - 2006.08.12 06:23:00 - [29] Originally by: Master OlavPancrazio Edited by: Master OlavPancrazio on 11/08/2006 21:02:07 Would anyone be interested if say these intercepters had a propulsion jamming bonus, mabye like 3% per level or something to both webbers and scrams range? I'd say no to range since that is entering the recon ships area... A bonus to web/scram strength would be interesting though.
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.12 06:52:00 - [30] Clickeh my sigeh Raptor and Ares Fix



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