Dear 0wl,

Please consider adding proper paragraphs for ease of readability.
I will not read this, because of this horrible wall o' text ...
... and I am sure I'm not the only one.


Thank you.


PS: Weren't you banned?

But Risky mining in low sec is something I would like to see improved.

Yup, that will work well. But Risky mining in low sec is something I would like to see improved. CCP added so many elements to improve it, a capable ship, the anomalies ... But its let down by the risk out weighing the reward part of the gameplay, and the gameplay side of it is great.

Do you have any suggestions? The only thing I can think of is increase the Prospect ore hold.

The real problem is that a cargohold of veldspar ist allmost as valuable as a cargohold full of a "high value" ore because you can have mutch more units of a low value ore in you hold than of a high value ore.

So it makes only little sense to go and search for the "high value" ores as your isk/hour is roughly the same, no matter what ore you mine.

There is no encouragement to go for the ore with the highest value. Only for the highest value per m-¦ in your cargo hold (That is easily reachable without to mutch traveling).

A logical fix to this would be to reduce the m-¦ "penalty"per unit as the ore value goes up to also increse its value per m-¦. But I cant tell whan consequenses this would have and why the devs had chosen to increase m-¦ for higher value ores in the first place.

Do you have any suggestions? The only thing I can think of is increase the Prospect ore hold.

The real problem is that a cargohold of veldspar ist allmost as valuable as a cargohold full of a "high value" ore because you can have mutch more units of a low value ore in you hold than of a high value ore.

So it makes only little sense to go and search for the "high value" ores as your isk/hour is roughly the same, no matter what ore you mine.

There is no encouragement to go for the ore with the highest value. Only for the highest value per m-¦ in your cargo hold (That is easily reachable without to mutch traveling).

A logical fix to this would be to reduce the m-¦ "penalty"per unit as the ore value goes up to also increse its value per m-¦. But I cant tell whan consequenses this would have and why the devs had chosen to increase m-¦ for higher value ores in the first place.

I agree with the op.

Why not have lowsec ore give +50% minerals, or more?

It's way more risky than in highsec.

Would be nice for small-time solo miners like the op, and somebody might organize mining ops, with pvp ships roaming close by ready to engage.

Would be fun for all, now it just isn't worth it for anybody

the isk/hour of mining is a reflection of the player driven economy, there's nothing ccp can do about the isk/hour of mining. if you want to make more isk, do activities that generate more isk.

Fit a covert ops cyno on that Prospect, get some miners to join you in low sec.

Light cyno, have some sb's cyno in for some win.

so basically, you want a hulk with a cov-ops cloak?

yeah, that's about as likely to happen as christmas in july.

I'm not a fan of flying pinata's, personally.

so you want a prospect with the yield of a hulk? which is even more unbalanced.

There is no encouragement to go for the ore with the highest value. Only for the highest value per m-¦ in your cargo hold (That is easily reachable without to mutch traveling).
A logical fix to this would be to reduce the m-¦ "penalty"per unit as the ore value goes up to also increse its value per m-¦. But I cant tell whan consequenses this would have and why the devs had chosen to increase m-¦ for higher value ores in the first place.

Dear 0wl,

Please consider adding proper paragraphs for ease of readability.

Ochre? Hah!
Go to nullsec and you'll be eating Arkonor for breakfast.

To put some sense into this...

Minerals are used for building 90% of the stuff out there.

If the prices of minerals goes up,
the prices of everything built with them goes up in the long run.

If the prices of minerals go down,
the prices of everything built with them goes down.

Miners who whine about low income only see the numbers and are unaware
of the fact that they earn pretty much always the same value relative to everything else.

Pushing up the number pushes up prices. At first they might think they earn more,
but in the end they will whine again, because everything costs more too.

Ever read a book?

Those were proper paragraphs in the OP.

Perhaps your conclusions might be true if a miner also uses all of his income to purchase player created goods. However, there are other things to spend ISK on (PLEX, characters, wardecs, office rent blah blah blah), where you are comparing your relative revenue streams against players deriving income from other sources (say missions for example). So, higher ore prices should benefit the miner overall.

At what stage in the thread or original post did I mention anything about changing the ship? I'm pretty sure I said it was fine the way it was. The point of the original post is about the risk vs reward balance low-sec mining has over high-sec, with the perefectly capable ship, the Prospect.

The gameplay is there, but the numbers are wrong in my opinion, this is a bit sad, because its back to high sec mining I go ...

The numbers have always been wrong. I think they are just to afraid of how it will affect the economy if lowsec activities had rewards scale with risk.

Lowsec mining needs to be REALLY REALLY lucrative to attract miners.

Its not, so it doesnt. Every now and then some new guy pokes into lowsec and gets popped by locals or rats or whatever. Then they go back to highsec mining and never return.

Income from mining in lowsec really needs to be crazy good. Miners will never go there because they get blown up, they are already having a hard time with CODE so why risk it even more? Exactly.

Crazy good income means someone will want to mine it. If not the highsec miners then the locals. No matter who, but if there were people mining in lowsec it would also be a positive thing for pirates. Lots of juicy targets waiting to be killed.

Ever read a book?

Those were proper paragraphs in the OP.

She....
Probably has......
....read books....
But....
They were all......
....like....this.....

Prospect should get some benefit, or atleast it should be worthwhile.

Done just the same as the OP and it feels kinda gimped.

Where they by Jeffrey Archer ?

No, they weren't.
Screen != Book.

Not even remotely comparable, superficial scrub.

Writing is writing, no matter what medium is used.

My biggest turnoff with mining was when they changed the sound of my mining lasers.

I mined two times ... three times actually in my five years of playing.
/i]

An easy start would be to improve the NPC stations in low and add laboratories/manufacturing lines to most of them. If manufacturing was more feasible in low, mining in the same system would be much more interesting.

Too some degree, I'm a masochist. I Enjoy mining. What I don't like is afk mining, it's boring, uneventful and not fun, apart from the odd laugh you get when someones untanked Mackinaw gets ganked next to you. Recently I aquired the skills to pilot a Prospect as a little side project to have a go at mining anomalies with in low sec, great I thought, tasty Crokite and Orche to be had!

The actual gameplay is enjoyable, mining, avoiding rats, gate camps and pirates, awesome! It feels like I'm risking something and its engaging ... Then you get your yield ... oh, well that's disappointing I thought ... this **** isn't even worth the risk, I might aswell afk mine in high sec with a Procurer for the same profit. The gameplay is there, but the numbers are wrong in my opinion, this is a bit sad, because its back to high sec mining I go ... I think the basic problem is the yields that come from the more valuable ores, it may be more valuable, but you just get a lot less of it for the size. But still, it's enjoyable to some degree.

I've said it once and I'll say it again. To make lowsec a wild west boomtown in a matter of seconds you need to put a mineral there that only exists there.

Remove 95% of Nocxium or better yet, Mexallon, from asteroids and spawn roids in lowsec that contain tons of nocxium or mexallon and I cannot stress this enough; tons.

This would make lowsec a risk / reward worthy place worth visiting.

And who will farm it?
The pirates who live there.

And they *will* defend it.

Your idea doesn't really work,
but I'm sure they'd love to have it implemented.


Sometimes I think people do not realise that anyone can do anything in this game
and that pirates aren't stuck at being pirates ...
... like miners who seem to be stuck at being miners ...
... but also can have mining alts.


Reminds me of the stupid argument of "who will mine for you 'PvPers' when we miners leave the game?" ...
... and the correction answer is, of course: Our alts.

I call it stupid, because it's stupid. It shows that the person hasn't though it through at all.

Furthermore, it will not bring carebears to lowsec ...
... because carebears do not want to go to lowsec.

It will rather bring all the big entities to lowsec ...
... because it allows them to bank in bigtime and have more control ...
... and make the smaller pirate entities defend every belt they can.

No amount of "buffing lowsec" ever changed the fact that carebears are carebears.


Your idea does not work as you think it would.

And it does not because you say so? Lol.

You should start off by reading the OP.

For the same price as the Prospect, you can get a better mining ship you probably were already going to train into: the Procurer. The Procurer has slightly more yield, a ton more tank, and defensive drones.

Am I wrong?

Why are you so anti social? An argument isn't stupid just because you don't agree with it. Your alts could never keep up with the massive mineral flow that carebears bring in.

Anyway, of course but it would also bring risk taking high sec dudes into low sec. You are already in low sec, high sec carebears are not because it's not worth it.

not really.

the prospect lives to fill a niche that simply doesn't exist.

Tunneling care bears into low sec would most likely get them killed and scarred for the rest of their (rather short) eve-life.

And you think your idea would work because you say so?

No ... it does not work, because it's disconnected from actual reality.

It does not work, because it completely leaves out the fact that carebears ...
... do not go to lowsec, because they can lose their ships ...
... and can not mine afk there without definitely losing them.

It also ignores the fact that giving lowsec a unique mineral ...
... will make all the people who live there already ...
... defend it as much as they can.

People will lock down access from highsec to lowsec everywhere.

Carebears will just whine even more ...
... because they can not access this mineral.


It's not me who is anti-social here.
It's you who simply refuses to accept
that his idea will not work the way it's thought out.

And all the stuff aside - I think low sec mining is dead, and I'd be afraid to change it. You do need to provide high sec players with some decent activities. And only after some time try to drag them to low/null so they can really discover what the game is about :P
Make it profitable and you will have a month tops of people dying to camps/recons/happy cyno and then forums splattered with "don't mine in lows sec if you're not in a corp controlling the system".

The experience is totally awesome, the payday aint. I really wish it was, because this could be dragging me to low/wh everyday!

Can someone please tell that genius up there ...
... that he is completely clueless about what I am saying?

Because it seems that his brain shuts down when he reads my posts ...
... so you might have more luck than I do.

Kind of embarassing talking to him .....
... so please don't do it if you feel the same.

And please note his cool name.
He is definitely cool.
Can obviously be noticed easily.



Thanks. :)

It's not me who is anti-social here.

I'm not saying my plan is bulletproof but what I do know is that much could be done to make low-sec more attractive than it is today, that we can all agree on, anti-social or not.

make low-sec more attractive than it is today

not really.

the prospect lives to fill a niche that simply doesn't exist.

No, they weren't.
Screen != Book.

Not even remotely comparable, superficial scrub.



"Overall".
There are more things to spend for which his purchasing power always stays the same, than not.
Besides ... your points are randomly chosen and too general. (wardecs, really lol)
And, increasing the isk/hr would only make PLEX prices go higher.


Besides all that, your argument is none. For a miner to earn more,
everything else automatically gets more expensive too.

It doesn't change anything I said in my post.


There is no "overall benefit" from higher ore prices.

I find this untrue. Why? Because null sec is exactly as dangerous as low sec is, in many cases even more dangerous due to warp bubbles, alliances patrolling their borders and whatnot.

I don't see the boards getting filled up with tears from noobs getting stomped in their search for ABCM in nullsec? Now, if the boards arent getting filled up now, why should they if we boost low sec?

I am not sure how higher isk/hour earned from mining would result in a comparable increase in a non-player manufactured item like PLEX. ISK from mining doesn't introduce new ISK into the game unlike some other ISK-earning activities. It's really a transfer of wealth from the consumer of goods to the miner.