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0wl
Pocket Pirates
66
   |
Posted - 2014.10.06 18:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Too some degree, I'm a masochist. I Enjoy mining. What I don't like is afk mining, it's boring, uneventful and not fun, apart from the odd laugh you get when someones untanked Mackinaw gets ganked next to you. Recently I aquired the skills to pilot a Prospect as a little side project to have a go at mining anomalies with in low sec, great I thought, tasty Crokite and Orche to be had! The actual gameplay is enjoyable, mining, avoiding rats, gate camps and pirates, awesome! It feels like I'm risking something and its engaging ... Then you get your yield ... oh, well that's disappointing I thought ... this **** isn't even worth the risk, I might aswell afk mine in high sec with a Procurer for the same profit. The gameplay is there, but the numbers are wrong in my opinion, this is a bit sad, because its back to high sec mining I go ... I think the basic problem is the yields that come from the more valuable ores, it may be more valuable, but you just get a lot less of it for the size. But still, it's enjoyable to some degree. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4822
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 18:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
I heard getting a mobile depot and a scan probe launcher on your Prospect is great for ninja gas mining in wormholes.
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
2813
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 18:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
They could remove rocks from belts in lowsec and just leave empty beacons and rats and nobody would even flinch. Lowsec has content and rewards for effort but definitely not under rocks :)
What about ninja gas trips in wh? More effort involved but I heard gas prices are attractive as a little side business/fun.
Invalid signature format |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10644
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 18:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dear 0wl,
Please consider adding proper paragraphs for ease of readability.
I will not read this, because of this horrible wall o' text ...
... and I am sure I'm not the only one.
Thank you.
PS: Weren't you banned?
I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked.
New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do
than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
0wl
Pocket Pirates
66
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 18:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yup, that will work well. But Risky mining in low sec is something I would like to see improved. CCP added so many elements to improve it, a capable ship, the anomalies ... But its let down by the risk out weighing the reward part of the gameplay, and the gameplay side of it is great. |
0wl
Pocket Pirates
66
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 18:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Dear 0wl,
Please consider adding proper paragraphs for ease of readability.
I will not read this, because of this horrible wall o' text ...
... and I am sure I'm not the only one.
Thank you.
PS: Weren't you banned?
No, I wasn't |
Caviar Liberta
Moira.
Villore Accords
702
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 19:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fit a covert ops cyno on that Prospect, get some miners to join you in low sec.
Light cyno, have some sb's cyno in for some win. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
Spaceship Bebop
1962
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 22:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
I agree with the op.
Why not have lowsec ore give +50% minerals, or more?
It's way more risky than in highsec.
Would be nice for small-time solo miners like the op, and somebody might organize mining ops, with pvp ships roaming close by ready to engage.
Would be fun for all, now it just isn't worth it for anybody
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |
DaReaper
Net 7
The Last Brigade
1058
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 23:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mining needs a complete overhaul
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766 |
Michael Ruckert
SECURE TRANSPORTS
197
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 02:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
OP:
Quote:I might as well afk mine in high sec with a Procurer for the same profit.
The secret to not giving a second thought about CODE while afk mining: Tanked Procurer.
"No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
178
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 03:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
0wl wrote:But Risky mining in low sec is something I would like to see improved. Do you have any suggestions? The only thing I can think of is increase the Prospect ore hold. |
Kaivar Lancer
Unlimited Speciality Networks
552
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 05:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
I like the increased yield bonus. Make a new "meta level" for asteroids that provide +25% or +50% minerals when reprocessed. |
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
268
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 05:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
0wl wrote:Yup, that will work well. But Risky mining in low sec is something I would like to see improved. CCP added so many elements to improve it, a capable ship, the anomalies ... But its let down by the risk out weighing the reward part of the gameplay, and the gameplay side of it is great.
I was trying the same thing out with an alt for a while there, just before the prospect came out. Zipping about in a venture in lowsec, scrounging for decent rocks. There wasn't much money in it, but it was fun for a while. Prospect should have improved the situation but all it does is cost a lot more for slightly less risk. I am disappoint.
As for improving the Prospect, giving it back a couple of drones with a 20m3 drone bay (so you can carry spares etc) would help the yield situation. Still, mining is in dire need of an overhaul so half-measures and small fixes are probably a waste of time at this point.
X |
Captain Awkward
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 07:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:0wl wrote:But Risky mining in low sec is something I would like to see improved. Do you have any suggestions? The only thing I can think of is increase the Prospect ore hold.
The real problem is that a cargohold of veldspar ist allmost as valuable as a cargohold full of a "high value" ore because you can have mutch more units of a low value ore in you hold than of a high value ore.
So it makes only little sense to go and search for the "high value" ores as your isk/hour is roughly the same, no matter what ore you mine.
There is no encouragement to go for the ore with the highest value. Only for the highest value per m-¦ in your cargo hold (That is easily reachable without to mutch traveling).
A logical fix to this would be to reduce the m-¦ "penalty"per unit as the ore value goes up to also increse its value per m-¦. But I cant tell whan consequenses this would have and why the devs had chosen to increase m-¦ for higher value ores in the first place. |
0wl
Pocket Pirates
70
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 09:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Captain Awkward wrote:Shiloh Templeton wrote:0wl wrote:But Risky mining in low sec is something I would like to see improved. Do you have any suggestions? The only thing I can think of is increase the Prospect ore hold. The real problem is that a cargohold of veldspar ist allmost as valuable as a cargohold full of a "high value" ore because you can have mutch more units of a low value ore in you hold than of a high value ore. So it makes only little sense to go and search for the "high value" ores as your isk/hour is roughly the same, no matter what ore you mine. There is no encouragement to go for the ore with the highest value. Only for the highest value per m-¦ in your cargo hold (That is easily reachable without to mutch traveling). A logical fix to this would be to reduce the m-¦ "penalty"per unit as the ore value goes up to also increse its value per m-¦. But I cant tell whan consequenses this would have and why the devs had chosen to increase m-¦ for higher value ores in the first place.
I kinda of agree with this, the m3 penalty seams too high. I guess the consequences wouldn't be so bad if you only aquired it in low sec ... operating a major mining operation in low-sec would be a massive challenge, rewarding of course, but massive. |
0wl
Pocket Pirates
70
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 09:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:0wl wrote:But Risky mining in low sec is something I would like to see improved. Do you have any suggestions? The only thing I can think of is increase the Prospect ore hold.
I personally don't think that's an issue, the Prospect itself feels like a good ship for the job. |
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
567
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 10:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
Captain Awkward wrote:Shiloh Templeton wrote:0wl wrote:But Risky mining in low sec is something I would like to see improved. Do you have any suggestions? The only thing I can think of is increase the Prospect ore hold. The real problem is that a cargohold of veldspar ist allmost as valuable as a cargohold full of a "high value" ore because you can have mutch more units of a low value ore in you hold than of a high value ore. So it makes only little sense to go and search for the "high value" ores as your isk/hour is roughly the same, no matter what ore you mine. There is no encouragement to go for the ore with the highest value. Only for the highest value per m-¦ in your cargo hold (That is easily reachable without to mutch traveling). A logical fix to this would be to reduce the m-¦ "penalty"per unit as the ore value goes up to also increse its value per m-¦. But I cant tell whan consequenses this would have and why the devs had chosen to increase m-¦ for higher value ores in the first place.
Giving all ores the same density would up the value per m-¦ and therefore per trip nicely but would also make anomaly mining a lot easier / quicker and thus lower risk. |
Dave Stark
7034
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 12:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
so basically, you want a hulk with a cov-ops cloak?
yeah, that's about as likely to happen as christmas in july. |
Dave Stark
7034
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 12:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:I agree with the op.
Why not have lowsec ore give +50% minerals, or more?
It's way more risky than in highsec.
Would be nice for small-time solo miners like the op, and somebody might organize mining ops, with pvp ships roaming close by ready to engage.
Would be fun for all, now it just isn't worth it for anybody
because then people whine that the price of minerals falls when the oversupply screws the market, so people want even more minerals, so the cycle repeats until the following things are true.
high sec mining is better isk/hour.
null sec mining income is through the floor due to the flood of minerals from low sec.
low sec mining is still **** isk/hour and just as risky.
the isk/hour of mining is a reflection of the player driven economy, there's nothing ccp can do about the isk/hour of mining. if you want to make more isk, do activities that generate more isk. |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10678
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 12:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:
the isk/hour of mining is a reflection of the player driven economy, there's nothing ccp can do about the isk/hour of mining. if you want to make more isk, do activities that generate more isk.
Quoting for truth.
One of the few people who get it.
I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked.
New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do
than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
WILLY TROPICAL
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 13:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
Caviar Liberta wrote:Fit a covert ops cyno on that Prospect, get some miners to join you in low sec.
Light cyno, have some sb's cyno in for some win.
That sounds like the ultimate evil master plan but you need a black ops to bridge them. Sorry if i'm too obvious but i don't want the op to believe that bombers can lock on covert cynos. |
0wl
Pocket Pirates
71
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 14:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:so basically, you want a hulk with a cov-ops cloak?
yeah, that's about as likely to happen as christmas in july.
I'm not a fan of flying pinata's, personally. |
Dave Stark
7035
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 14:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
0wl wrote:Dave Stark wrote:so basically, you want a hulk with a cov-ops cloak?
yeah, that's about as likely to happen as christmas in july. I'm not a fan of flying pinata's, personally.
so you want a prospect with the yield of a hulk? which is even more unbalanced. |
0wl
Pocket Pirates
72
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 15:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:0wl wrote:Dave Stark wrote:so basically, you want a hulk with a cov-ops cloak?
yeah, that's about as likely to happen as christmas in july. I'm not a fan of flying pinata's, personally. so you want a prospect with the yield of a hulk? which is even more unbalanced.
At what stage in the thread or original post did I mention anything about changing the ship? I'm pretty sure I said it was fine the way it was. The point of the original post is about the risk vs reward balance low-sec mining has over high-sec, with the perefectly capable ship, the Prospect. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4826
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 15:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
My proposal for a mining overhaul contains a portion about Vein Mining, which would lend itself perfectly to the agile ninja mining the Prospect and Venture offer. Just a little shameless plug.
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics |
Areen Sassel
34
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 16:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Captain Awkward wrote:There is no encouragement to go for the ore with the highest value. Only for the highest value per m-¦ in your cargo hold (That is easily reachable without to mutch traveling).
A logical fix to this would be to reduce the m-¦ "penalty"per unit as the ore value goes up to also increse its value per m-¦. But I cant tell whan consequenses this would have and why the devs had chosen to increase m-¦ for higher value ores in the first place.
The consequence would - obviously - be that values per m^3 would change until the relative value per m^3 of readily accessible ores was about the same once more. |
Robert Sawyer
Red Phoenix Rising
Rolling The Dice
41
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 16:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ochre? Hah!
Go to nullsec and you'll be eating Arkonor for breakfast.
"And when, at last, the moment is yours, that agony will become your greatest triumph." |
Torneach Structor
Emrys Enterprises
141
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 17:08:00 -
[28] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Dear 0wl,
Please consider adding proper paragraphs for ease of readability.
Ever read a book?
Those were proper paragraphs in the OP. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1546
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 22:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
From my perspective the only reason to mine in lowsec would be to not having to haul minerals into lowsec. Pick your poison really. I mine mostly gas in a Venture if at all, I'm no big manufacturer (my carebear SP is more in Science and PI) but some dudes in our corp do mine ore. They use cheap replaceable T1 barges (indeed a better margin) and have trigger-happy friends on comms though. Half of their role is bait, and our guys happily take diminished yield in exchange for killlmails and survival rates.
The Prospect is the only ship that shares a Gas Harvesting bonus with the Venture. If I were you I would train for T2 Gas Harvesters and a Blockade Runner / Deep Space Transport. In my experience the best lowsec gas sites are worth mining, and T2 Harvesters really help doing it quicker. Ore mining is what I'd do when I'd find a Mordus blueprint and want to manufacture it locally, and then only if I'd miss a few thousand units here and there. Mining is a means to an end, a last-resort activity you do in secret when you are so drunk you don't feel shame. It's that or welping something just to not log off.  |
Dehval
Risk Breakers
Forged of Fire
54
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 22:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
Robert Sawyer wrote:Ochre? Hah!
Go to nullsec and you'll be eating Arkonor for breakfast.
And then you find out that it is actually more profitable to mine Plagiocase, a rock that litters everywhere but Amarrian space, than it is to mine Arkonor. The only null ore with any value right now is Gneiss with the holy "ABCS" down mingling with Veldspar and Scordite fighting for second to last place (Omber has been the worst for a while now).
The OP has a very valid point. There is no benefit to mining the higher end ores because the m3 penalty is too great. There is no need to make new ore variants that have +25/50% refine rates, they just need to lower the volume of existing ores so that you can mine more units per cycle.
It isn't like there is going to be much exporting to highsec in the coming months after the jump changes hit. The markets might not even flinch past the initial speculators doing their thing. |
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