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Zoltar Nosisk
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 11:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
After testing for a long time and discussing with other Eve players I have come to the conclusion that warp disruptors (the ship module) needs to reworked to be balanced
A normal warp disruptor can hold a ship down, and will guarantee a ship's destruction up to 24 (Twenty-four!) kilometers. This is way out of hand, since fast ships can easily come within 10 kilometers. Let alone 24 kilometers
- There are no ways to escape from warp disruptors (dont say use warp core stablisers)
- Every ship can use them
- Even new pilots tackle big ships
When this becomes worse is when you can use overheat the warp disruptor, giving range to 28.8 (Twenty-eight) kilomters!!! Also for there is faction warp disruptor
My suggestion for new balance change is as follows:
- Change the range of warp disruptor to 12 Kilometer
- Change the range of scram for 6 kilometer (half of warp disruptor)
- Change how overheat works and make it require nanite repair paste (10 per second)
- Remove faction warp disruptors and scrams from the game
Please leave a comment because you agree so CCP can see and implement the changes |

Khan Wrenth
Hedion University Amarr Empire
60
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 11:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
I believe it already is balanced. A warp disruptor does not completely lock down your ship - it only prevents your warp. The difference is that you can still use a micro warpdrive propulsion unit, which gives your ship an immense speed boost. That speed boost should be enough to either close the distance on said target and destroy his ship, or outrun his disruptor and warp out.
The key is to have a properly fitted ship. If your ship is not properly fitted, you find out the hard way.
Scramblers, on the other hand, do prevent your micro warpdrive unit from functioning, leaving you only the use of an afterburner if you have one equipped. But with that shorter range, you're also likely within web range of each other and it's a brawl situation. Again, if you are properly equipped, you can deal with this. A quick speed boost with your afterburner (assuming you aren't webbed) can shoot you out of his scram range since it is so much shorter (9km cold). But in all likelihood, if you are scrammed, the opposing ship is very much ready for the brawl and you are unlikely to have the opportunity to survive or disengage from him. It's the scramblers you need to really worry about.
Or, if you have webs and short range weapons, you can make him regret the engagement.
These modules have been a part of gameplay for years (if not the entirety of EVE). Hundreds of thousands of individuals before you have been able to adapt and work with them, and you can too. I've never really heard someone claim they are unbalanced before. They have their scope of use, and it is not overly broad.
You have a lot of options at your disposal, but the most important thing you can do is adapt your gameplay style to minimize the chances of getting caught with your pants down. Be aware of game mechanics, be aware of the limitations of your own ship, and be aware of your surroundings. You'll be okay. HTFU.-á Adapt or die.-á Beware the falcon punch. |

Zoltar Nosisk
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 12:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:I believe it already is balanced. A warp disruptor does not completely lock down your ship - it only prevents your warp. The difference is that you can still use a micro warpdrive propulsion unit, which gives your ship an immense speed boost. That speed boost should be enough to either close the distance on said target and destroy his ship, or outrun his disruptor and warp out.
The key is to have a properly fitted ship. If your ship is not properly fitted, you find out the hard way.
Scramblers, on the other hand, do prevent your micro warpdrive unit from functioning, leaving you only the use of an afterburner if you have one equipped. But with that shorter range, you're also likely within web range of each other and it's a brawl situation. Again, if you are properly equipped, you can deal with this. A quick speed boost with your afterburner (assuming you aren't webbed) can shoot you out of his scram range since it is so much shorter (9km cold). But in all likelihood, if you are scrammed, the opposing ship is very much ready for the brawl and you are unlikely to have the opportunity to survive or disengage from him. It's the scramblers you need to really worry about.
Or, if you have webs and short range weapons, you can make him regret the engagement.
These modules have been a part of gameplay for years (if not the entirety of EVE). Hundreds of thousands of individuals before you have been able to adapt and work with them, and you can too. I've never really heard someone claim they are unbalanced before. They have their scope of use, and it is not overly broad.
You have a lot of options at your disposal, but the most important thing you can do is adapt your gameplay style to minimize the chances of getting caught with your pants down. Be aware of game mechanics, be aware of the limitations of your own ship, and be aware of your surroundings. You'll be okay.
Only way if you agree with they are balanced is if you always blob with warp disruptors yourself. It is NOT balanced, for interceptors and warp speed changes have made it way too easy to make warp disruptor range of 28 kilometer.
It was perhaps ok when Eve was not 100% warp disruptors in ships, but times change and the modules need changing to become balanced again. Too |

Zoltar Nosisk
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 12:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
An example is a new Eve player in a interceptor (Which has MORE range on warp disruptor). He can warp disupt a ship, and thereby also ensuring it's destruction when he cannot even be hit
It has to stop |

Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
418
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 12:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ways to counter a disruptor:
1) Slingshot with your MWD on 2) Jump through the gate 3) Use size-appropriate droens or guns to kill the interceptor 4) Neut the disrupting ship if in range 5) Web the disrupting ship and get out of range, modules or drones 6) Ask friends to hard tackle the disrupting ship making it killable 7) Damps 8) ECM
I'm sure I missed most of the things... |

Captain Cean
Holy Cookie
2
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 12:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Just one thing to say: IMHO
|

Zoltar Nosisk
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 12:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Captain Cean wrote:Just one thing to say: IMHO
People like you who post thrash and insult players that think about the game and propose ballance changes are what we need less off |

Yogsoloth
Percussive Diplomacy
157
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 12:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
No need for a change, there's already a plethora of tools and tactics at your disposal.
MWD, outrun them, be faster, overheat, use prop upgrades etc. ECM mods, target breaker, ECM drones, jam them. Turrets !!! How about just kill them. Interceptors are not exactly titans and don't take alot to take down. If you're worried about blobs, how about find some friends, stop flying alone, join a corp, use Dscan etc.
These are just a handful of ideas that came to me in 30 seconds flat. Stop crying for change because youre failing and flailing. |

Zoltar Nosisk
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 12:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yogsoloth wrote:No need for a change, there's already a plethora of tools and tactics at your disposal.
MWD, outrun them, be faster, overheat, use prop upgrades etc. ECM mods, target breaker, ECM drones, jam them. Turrets !!! How about just kill them. Interceptors are not exactly titans and don't take alot to take down. If you're worried about blobs, how about find some friends, stop flying alone, join a corp, use Dscan etc.
These are just a handful of ideas that came to me in 30 seconds flat. Stop crying for change because youre failing and flailing.
Ok first:
Using mwd does not help if they use it too! Think before you write this
Ecm drones is good for when they use scram (6kilometers), but other ecm is not fast enough (the drone)
The point is that you cannot run away, how does turret help? You cannot kill everything! |

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
36
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 12:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
-1
Working great. As the gankers always tell their victims, adapt or get out. |

Yogsoloth
Percussive Diplomacy
157
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 12:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Quote:Using mwd does not help if they use it too! Think before you write this
Yes, because clearly there is no way to make your ship faster, and obviously every ship you run across is the fastest ship in the game. /o
Quote:Ecm drones is good for when they use scram (6kilometers), but other ecm is not fast enough (the drone)
And because drones don't have a range roughly of 50km give or take, on top the of the range the actual drone itself gets.
/o
Quote:The point is that you cannot run away, how does turret help? You cannot kill everything!
Clearly every ship in game is more powerful than the one youre in, and interceptors really can't ever be killed be anything.
o.0 |

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
5617
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 12:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Counter proposal : stop being bad at eve, if i can haul my slow ass legion out of point range, you can too.
Zoltar Nosisk wrote: You cannot kill everything! your not using enough violence, apply moar to kill it dead! =]I[= |

Arla Sarain
82
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 12:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
You are not wrong IMO. But no one will agree. Its ingrained far too deep.
Ships are not agile enough for slingshot to be an absolute counter. Midslots are not infinite to load up on tricks to counter it.
The whole warp disruptor/scram is a poor design. Warp pursuit should have been ingame instead.
And WTF is a "proper" fit? No such thing. You fit for application. And you fit proactively, with anticipation and speculation. Which removes many potential setups and pigeonholes people into very explicit and particular fits. Hence why scram/web/disruptor is the holy trinity of PVP. You pretty much need to have them.
Also, brawl ships need 2 tackle mods and kites need 1?
Anyone who says warp disruption mechanics are fine are just a pack of docile puppies who are content with rubber bones. |

Captain Cean
Holy Cookie
3
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 12:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Warp distrupt are fine 24km is nothing Cruiser can still shoot on this range Frigs fly about 4k so they fly 20km in 5 seconds
your Problem is 30cm infront of your Screen
Warp distrup are nearly useless in Fight they do NOTHING what you help kill something. If you are to slow (i dont want say stupid) to run away from them its your fault
cause every other Pilot here can escape them
p.s. Whould you like to hear a more scary stroy a arazu can use covert cloak and can warp distrup you about +50km
|

King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
152
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 13:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
wtb a warp disruptor that guarantees a kill and has no counters
the idea about infinite heating with nanite paste is plausible, however |

Samillian
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
619
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 13:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
1. There are a number of ways to slip tackle, many have been outlined in previous posts in this thread. Indeed if the warp disruptor were a 100% effective way of catching a ship there would be some justification for change but that is not the case.
2. Of course every ship can use them, every ship can use MWD, AB and stabs plus a multitude of other modules if they have the grid and cpu available.
3. If a new player invests time in training the skills why shouldn't they be tackle if they want to? In fact it is one of the best contributions a new pilot can make.
As far as I can see no good case has been made for the changes suggested to warp disruptors.
Not supported.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |

Zoltar Nosisk
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 13:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Samillian wrote:1. There are a number of ways to slip tackle, many have been outlined in previous posts in this thread. Indeed if the warp disruptor were a 100% effective way of catching a ship there would be some justification for change but that is not the case.
2. Of course every ship can use them, every ship can use MWD, AB and stabs plus a multitude of other modules if they have the grid and cpu available.
3. If a new player invests time in training the skills why shouldn't they be tackle if they want to? In fact it is one of the best contributions a new pilot can make.
As far as I can see no good case has been made for the changes suggested to warp disruptors.
Not supported.
I dont understand how many stupid reply... Also ship with Warp disruptor can use Microwarp drive!!! Stop say use mwd to get from warp disrupt range. It needs to have the range fixed as proposed |

Captain Cean
Holy Cookie
3
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 13:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zoltar Nosisk wrote:Samillian wrote:1. There are a number of ways to slip tackle, many have been outlined in previous posts in this thread. Indeed if the warp disruptor were a 100% effective way of catching a ship there would be some justification for change but that is not the case.
2. Of course every ship can use them, every ship can use MWD, AB and stabs plus a multitude of other modules if they have the grid and cpu available.
3. If a new player invests time in training the skills why shouldn't they be tackle if they want to? In fact it is one of the best contributions a new pilot can make.
As far as I can see no good case has been made for the changes suggested to warp disruptors.
Not supported.
I dont understand how many stupid reply... Also ship with Warp disruptor can use Microwarp drive!!! Stop say use mwd to get from warp disrupt range. It needs to have the range fixed as proposed
when i follow you type of thinking, i can kill every ship when i have a mwd and a warp distrup Slicer Solo KB then pls tell me WHY THEY DIE ? |

Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
24
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 14:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Change how overheat works and make it require nanite repair paste (10 per second) -> so i would take an huge amout repair paste and could overheat the moduls the whole fight long without fearing that the would burn out. Bad idea
Remove faction warp disruptors and scrams from the game --> is an even worser idea.
Points are just fine the way they are use a better fitting to counter form a fleet and don-¦t fly a bs alone in pvp.
-1
|

MP2008
Homicidal Ideations General Tso's Alliance
9
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 14:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
The Ranges are fine.
If CCP ever changed them I bet you would still die a lot.
Let me guess, someone ganked you and you are not happy about it.
Please show us on the doll where the bad man touched you.
Learn how to play the game because the rest of us have and as these nice people pointed out there are literally a thousand ways to break tackle.
So why don't you just learn them and adapt otherwise there's the door. EVE weeds out stupid people. If you don't have the chops for it, don't cry about it and try to ruin the game for everyone else who is smarter than you. kthxbye |

Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
511
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 14:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
All weapon and EAR ranges are balanced taking all of the others into consideration. If you decreased only the range of scramblers and disruptors, they would be totally off-kilter relative to other systems.
1. You'd need to overheat scrams to operate outside of small neut range. 2. MWDs would be able to keep operating 3km closer to a scram-fit ship, which would throw off the balance of turret tracking. 3. You'd need to overheat disruptors to operate outside of medium neut range. 4. Damps would be less effective against tacklers since they'd be forced to engage at closer ranges. 5. Tacklers using disruptors would be far more vulnerable to being webbed. 6. Long range battleship guns, and to an extent long range cruiser guns, would become far less useful in small gang combat if you can only tackle out to 12km.
Etc.
Basically, what you're proposing would destroy the existing game balance. It would make almost all ships far less vulnerable to ships smaller than they are, which is something CCP has stated should not be the case.
Sorry. but no. CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook. I want to create content, not become content. |

Nariya Kentaya
The Pulsar Innovation Surely You're Joking
1573
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 15:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
Zoltar Nosisk wrote:After testing for a long time and discussing with other Eve players I have come to the conclusion that warp disruptors (the ship module) needs to reworked to be balanced A normal warp disruptor can hold a ship down, and will guarantee a ship's destruction up to 24 (Twenty-four!) kilometers. This is way out of hand, since fast ships can easily come within 10 kilometers. Let alone 24 kilometers
- There are no ways to escape from warp disruptors (dont say use warp core stablisers)
- Every ship can use them
- Even new pilots tackle big ships
When this becomes worse is when you can use overheat the warp disruptor, giving range to 28.8 (Twenty-eight) kilomters!!! Also for there is faction warp disruptor My suggestion for new balance change is as follows:
- Change the range of warp disruptor to 12 Kilometer
- Change the range of scram for 6 kilometer (half of warp disruptor)
- Change how overheat works and make it require nanite repair paste (10 per second)
- Remove faction warp disruptors and scrams from the game
Please leave a comment because you agree so CCP can see and implement the changes CCP already loves assfucking laser-boats in pvp, why not take away any ability for us to hold enemies down in a fight without them being at a third our optimal and therefore unhittable.
frakkin think man. not everyone uses ******* autocannons/blasters in pvp |

Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
290
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 15:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
Confirming warp disruptors as balanced and working as intended Also confirming OP just hates kiters in general adapt or die
signing off o7  If you don't keep up to date on the upcoming changes, you may as well be living under a rokh.I would even Venture to say that was a good pun on my partStay beautiful o7 |

Arla Sarain
82
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 19:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote: 2. MWDs would be able to keep operating 3km closer to a scram-fit ship, which would throw off the balance of turret tracking.
How so...?
You wouldn't be able to fly anywhere near close to max speed with an MWD on at 3kms orbit. And yet the sig penalty would still be on. MWD make you easier to hit on anything that doesn't have bonuses. Even AFs are easy to hit with MWDs.
Unless you factor in faloff penalty. Which isn't beating other ships in tracking - just staying out of range of their turrets. Which is what disruptors promote. Seeing as it's effective, easy and cheap on fitting and slot count. |

BogWopit
Tommy Wat Inc.
10
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 19:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
-1 ranges and applications are spot on relative to other systems and counters.
Newbie pvpers being able to tackle is awesome, they become as useful as a 150m sp toon immediately. I'd wager large sums of isk that every low SP char that ever said 'I want to Pvp' was responded to with the words 'grab a rifter and a point'
All of the counters have already been listed so I'll not cover them again, neuts are one of my favourite ways of shutting down tackle, more manly than outright jamming them out.
From personal experience I'd say I've slipped tackle enough to make it fair, but being honest I've now got to the stage where if someone wants me to hang around long enough that they point me, I'll hang around. Sometimes they get more than they bargained for and those are the fights it's worth dying 50 times previously for.
|

Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
513
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 19:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:Bronson Hughes wrote: 2. MWDs would be able to keep operating 3km closer to a scram-fit ship, which would throw off the balance of turret tracking.
How so...? You wouldn't be able to fly anywhere near close to max speed with an MWD on at 3kms orbit. And yet the sig penalty would still be on. MWD make you easier to hit on anything that doesn't have bonuses. Even AFs are easy to hit with MWDs. Unless you factor in faloff penalty. Which isn't beating other ships in tracking - just staying out of range of their turrets. Which is what disruptors promote. Seeing as it's effective, easy and cheap on fitting and slot count. I didn't say it would hurt turret performance. If anything, it would likely help it because, precisely as you say, there's no way to maintain a full speed orbit at those ranges with a MWD running: bloated signature + lower speed = more applied DPS.
Also, close-range MWDs aren't just about orbits: there are chases, fly-bys, etc. They'd have different tracking balance (likely favoring the turret) as well. CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook. I want to create content, not become content. |

Wolf Incaelum
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 19:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Counter proposal : stop being bad at eve, if i can haul my slow ass legion out of point range, you can too. Zoltar Nosisk wrote: You cannot kill everything! your not using enough violence, apply moar to kill it dead!
Lol. You always say the best stuff, Ralph. You're my favorite Amarrian.
The deer can get it right. What's YOUR problem? |

Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
514
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 19:49:00 -
[28] - Quote
Also, as someone who has lost more than his fair share of kills because their target managed to get un-tackled, I strongly oppose anything to make tackle mods even weaker. CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook. I want to create content, not become content. |

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
5624
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 19:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
Wolf Incaelum wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Counter proposal : stop being bad at eve, if i can haul my slow ass legion out of point range, you can too. Zoltar Nosisk wrote: You cannot kill everything! your not using enough violence, apply moar to kill it dead! Lol. You always say the best stuff, Ralph. You're my favorite Amarrian. Happy to be of service
o7
=]I[= |

Wolf Incaelum
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
27
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 19:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
Zoltar Nosisk wrote:Samillian wrote:1. There are a number of ways to slip tackle, many have been outlined in previous posts in this thread. Indeed if the warp disruptor were a 100% effective way of catching a ship there would be some justification for change but that is not the case.
2. Of course every ship can use them, every ship can use MWD, AB and stabs plus a multitude of other modules if they have the grid and cpu available.
3. If a new player invests time in training the skills why shouldn't they be tackle if they want to? In fact it is one of the best contributions a new pilot can make.
As far as I can see no good case has been made for the changes suggested to warp disruptors.
Not supported.
I dont understand how many stupid reply... Also ship with Warp disruptor can use Microwarp drive!!! Stop say use mwd to get from warp disrupt range. It needs to have the range fixed as proposed
I'm not even going to read the rest of this thread. I'm just going to use your own quote against you.
Zoltar Nosisk wrote:People like you who post thrash and insult players that think about the game and propose balance changes are what we need less off.
Forget anything useful or constructive I had to say about your idea. You're just another a-hole who's pissed off because other people are individuals and don't see things your way. Welcome to the real world, bub. Real people live here, and we aren't YOU. Get off your ******* high horse and understand that other people are entitled to their opinions, which most certainly does NOT mean they are stupid. After all, everyone else gets along just fine with scrams and disruptors the way they are. YOU'RE the one who has a problem with them, which stems directly from your own inadaptability. Sounds to me like it's your attitude that needs revising, not the point mods. The deer can get it right. What's YOUR problem? |
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