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Incoming Stealth Bomber nerf?

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Aerakis Koskanaiken Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 2	Posted - 2014.10.10 01:37:00 - [1] - Quote I read that there may be/is a nerf bat somewhere ready to take a swing at bombers. I've only recently started flying them, and have already seen how insanely effective they are for wiping out entire fleets with little to no counter available. There are a lot of fits and ship types which may be excluded from doctrines/fun fleets because a handful of bombers will wipe them out. From your experiences, do bombers need a nerf? If they do, what do you the players think the best way to bring them back into balance would be? Interested to hear what others think.
PotatoOverdose Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS. 2242	Posted - 2014.10.10 01:38:00 - [2] - Quote No one really had a problem with bombers until they stopped decloaking one another and could be isboxed. Just sayin'.
Jarod Garamonde Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 2011	Posted - 2014.10.10 01:53:00 - [3] - Quote It's simple.... we ban the ISBoxers. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
GreenSeed 1185	Posted - 2014.10.10 02:39:00 - [4] - Quote bombers don't need a nerf, they need to have some its power moved from the front loading balance nightmare that bombs are, to a more sustained effect... maybe making bombs deal more damage, but deal it over time on an area instead of "BOOM fleet is gone". or removing bombs completely, and giving torps fired from bombers AOE (the code is there), and allowing bombers to re-cloak even when targeted. anything that will remove the insane alpha from bombs, while leaving bombers a viable deterrent to brainless blobs.
Caleb Seremshur The Atomic Fallout Kids 365	Posted - 2014.10.10 02:42:00 - [5] - Quote Just remove bombs aoe. They explode on impact. Deal even more damage. Like 15-20k alpha. Now you have bombs. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Deep Space The ROC 10033	Posted - 2014.10.10 02:44:00 - [6] - Quote Bombers are fine. Cloakies not decloaking one another is not. Nor ever was, when you get right down to it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Milan Nantucket New Eden Misfits 189	Posted - 2014.10.10 03:05:00 - [7] - Quote I have had bombs chucked at me. They need a buff because i have yet to be blowed up by one.
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 16999	Posted - 2014.10.10 03:11:00 - [8] - Quote Ban ISBoxers. Bombers fixed. Mining Fixed. ISBoxer whine threads fixed. Its like killing the Batman. Its simple and literally solves everything. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 674	Posted - 2014.10.10 04:21:00 - [9] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Ban ISBoxers. Bombers fixed. Mining Fixed. ISBoxer whine threads fixed. Its like killing the Batman. Its simple and literally solves everything. I'm confused, since you are the one saying that does that mean it would be a good or bad thing bring back the firewall is all I'll say, pretty sure we saw that used very well in the AT. Smartbombs seem to be the solution to every single problem in eve! I'll join the chorus asking CCP, don't take my fancy names away from me! In the name of the Limos, the Malkuth, and the Arbalest, so help me pod - Mara Rinn
Shey Nabali Collapsed Out Overload Everything 10	Posted - 2014.10.10 05:12:00 - [10] - Quote Chainsaw Plankton wrote: Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Ban ISBoxers. Bombers fixed. Mining Fixed. ISBoxer whine threads fixed. Its like killing the Batman. Its simple and literally solves everything. I'm confused, since you are the one saying that does that mean it would be a good or bad thing bring back the firewall is all I'll say, pretty sure we saw that used very well in the AT. Smartbombs seem to be the solution to every single problem in eve! As someone who has multi-boxed a firewaller in damn near every fleet I've been in for the last couple months, they are incredibly useful and powerful, but they are far from a i-win button. They rock for killing small and medium drones, and they force heavies back into bays. But sentries can be a *** and a half to clear quickly, since they can be spread over a huge volume of space. If they get dropped at around 100km(MJD) off, or within 20-30, it's pretty quick to clear them, but if they get dropped between 40-70, it's going to take awhile. And if they drop them directly on gate or station you can't smartbomb them at all. You really need 2-3 firewallers to clear heavies/gila drones or sentries quickly, and forget clearing rattler drones in less than a like 50 ***** cycles. Bombs can come in from pretty much any direction. Firewalling BSs are just as slow as regular BSs, and cruisers can only fit medium smartbombs, making for a tiny margin of error.
Eugene Kerner TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory. 1394	Posted - 2014.10.10 05:42:00 - [11] - Quote O dear all those tears...how many of you have actually died to a bombing run in 0.0? TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
Ocih Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums 792	Posted - 2014.10.10 05:47:00 - [12] - Quote Jarod Garamonde wrote: It's simple.... we ban the ISBoxers. And it removes a lot of issues in EVE. When 5 guys can symphony slaughter 200 actual players the game becomes a poopsock. It's a form of botting and everyone knows it.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 4332	Posted - 2014.10.10 05:56:00 - [13] - Quote Ocih wrote: Jarod Garamonde wrote: It's simple.... we ban the ISBoxers. And it removes a lot of issues in EVE. When 5 guys can symphony slaughter 200 actual players the game becomes a poopsock. It's a form of botting and everyone knows it. It's not botting though, so oh well. Set up isboxer, sod off to work then come back later and see how much has been accomplished. And the only "issue" that removing isboxers will accomplish is a handful of whiners will stop whining. I agree it's too easy in some circumstances to use isboxer fleets, but in most situations the same number of real people have a considerably higher efficiency. Nuking isboxer from the game completely would just be CCP throwing away subs to appease people who have no idea what they are talking about. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Felicity Love Imperium Galactic Navy 2154	Posted - 2014.10.10 06:09:00 - [14] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: Just remove bombs aoe. Which pretty much defeats the purpose -- in the same way that Titan DD's got hosed. Bombs didn't used to be cheap, either, but they've been cheap as chips for years now. THAT is the problem. "EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.-á-á ( Pick four, any four. They all smell. -á)
Ocih Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums 792	Posted - 2014.10.10 06:52:00 - [15] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Ocih wrote: Jarod Garamonde wrote: It's simple.... we ban the ISBoxers. And it removes a lot of issues in EVE. When 5 guys can symphony slaughter 200 actual players the game becomes a poopsock. It's a form of botting and everyone knows it. It's not botting though, so oh well. Set up isboxer, sod off to work then come back later and see how much has been accomplished. And the only "issue" that removing isboxers will accomplish is a handful of whiners will stop whining. I agree it's too easy in some circumstances to use isboxer fleets, but in most situations the same number of real people have a considerably higher efficiency. Nuking isboxer from the game completely would just be CCP throwing away subs to appease people who have no idea what they are talking about. I know exactly what I am talking about. Your bloo-bloo-bloo yarns won't convince me otherwise. I also know why it wasn't removed a long time ago and that hasn't changed so don't get your knickers in a knot. EVE and ISBoxer are hand and glove for the foreseeable future.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 5543	Posted - 2014.10.10 07:32:00 - [16] - Quote Meh. I hardly figured out how to effectively use one and now they want to nerf it. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Thatt Guy Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 127	Posted - 2014.10.10 07:36:00 - [17] - Quote wahhh....... mommy those people are better at this game than me, ban them mommy!!! wahhh....... ISBoxer is legal. If you can't afford to use it,(or aren't smart enough) that's your problem. lrn2eve jelly much? Haters gonna hate, Trolls gonna troll.
Aerakis Koskanaiken Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 2	Posted - 2014.10.10 08:49:00 - [18] - Quote noob alert What's an ISBoxer? Not come across that term before.
ChromeStriker 0ne Percent. Odin's Call 764	Posted - 2014.10.10 09:07:00 - [19] - Quote Aerakis Koskanaiken wrote: noob alert What's an ISBoxer? Not come across that term before. http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/eve_diy_multiplayer_system_1.jpg No Worries
Ruskarn Andedare Lion Investments 571	Posted - 2014.10.10 10:29:00 - [20] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Meh. I hardly figured out how to effectively use one and now they want to nerf it. I can't seem to get it right at all so you're one up on me
Adrie Atticus Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion 424	Posted - 2014.10.10 10:58:00 - [21] - Quote Aerakis Koskanaiken wrote: noob alert What's an ISBoxer? Not come across that term before. It's a piece of software which allows you to copy/repeat/clone/propagate mouse clicks and keyboard commands on multiple interfaces or computers at the same time.
Khema Fera Brave Pros Incorparated 1	Posted - 2014.10.10 11:13:00 - [22] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Ban ISBoxers. Bombers fixed. Mining Fixed. ISBoxer whine threads fixed. Its like killing the Batman. Its simple and literally solves everything. Had batman died, Gotham would have many dead people. So yeah, killing the batman =/= good idea. Also, why do people have ISBoxer so much? **** would reach insane prices without all the multiboxers.
Cebraio 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 431	Posted - 2014.10.10 11:14:00 - [23] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Bombers are fine. Cloakies not decloaking one another is not. Nor ever was, when you get right down to it. Bombers are OP. Cloakies not decloaking each other is fine, simply because you can't see what will decloak you so you cannot avoid it.
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium 5478	Posted - 2014.10.10 11:31:00 - [24] - Quote And next month when CFC is flying bomber fleets, you'll be complaining that they're too hard to fly and don't offer effective risk/reward or some nonsense like that. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
knobber Jobbler Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 453	Posted - 2014.10.10 11:36:00 - [25] - Quote Cebraio wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Bombers are fine. Cloakies not decloaking one another is not. Nor ever was, when you get right down to it. Bombers are OP. Cloakies not decloaking each other is fine, simply because you can't see what will decloak you so you cannot avoid it. You can. Bombers were fine until they changed the mechanics. It was still possible to have large bomber fleets that didn't decloak each other, it just took some semblance of skill to perform.
Ned Thomas Hellbound Turkeys Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects 172	Posted - 2014.10.10 11:44:00 - [26] - Quote I could see a nerf to bomb damage and a fitting rebalance to make lesser used SB's more enticing. Maybe make bomb damage a role bonus. Now if they really want to screw with people they'd give bombers a damage multiplier on rockets
PotatoOverdose Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS. 2247	Posted - 2014.10.10 11:51:00 - [27] - Quote knobber Jobbler wrote: You can. Bombers were fine until they changed the mechanics. It was still possible to have large bomber fleets that didn't decloak each other, it just took some semblance of skill to perform. This. We don't ban the isboxer. We remove the thing that allows the isboxer to use bombers perfectly.
embrel BamBam Inc. Outlanders United 190	Posted - 2014.10.10 12:54:00 - [28] - Quote Thatt Guy wrote: wahhh....... mommy those people are better at this game than me, ban them mommy!!! wahhh....... ISBoxer is legal. If you can't afford to use it,(or aren't smart enough) that's your problem. lrn2eve jelly much? what does ISBoxer have in common with l2Eve? in some cases it's not the afford-part or the smart-part, but the not-sick or not-addicted enough part.
Agondray Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces 137	Posted - 2014.10.10 13:02:00 - [29] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Ban ISBoxers. Bombers fixed. Mining Fixed. ISBoxer whine threads fixed. Its like killing the Batman. Its simple and literally solves everything. those people dieing to isboxer can simply petition and get the ships back, incursion runners do it all the time because its said only 1 is the player and the rest are bots "Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mine" -Dr. Smith
Notorious Fellon 345	Posted - 2014.10.10 13:22:00 - [30] - Quote Proximity should de-cloak. Also, ban the use of command sharing/forking products like Isboxer. No one enjoys being on the receiving end of an automated, mindless alpha. At least require each ship to be human controlled.
Lloyd Roses Blue-Fire 710	Posted - 2014.10.10 13:29:00 - [31] - Quote Agondray wrote: Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Ban ISBoxers. Bombers fixed. Mining Fixed. ISBoxer whine threads fixed. Its like killing the Batman. Its simple and literally solves everything. those people dieing to isboxer can simply petition and get the ships back, incursion runners do it all the time because its said only 1 is the player and the rest are bots Don't get the incursion part, but good luck trying to get your ship back after it got popped by something like 7 surprisingly coordinated purifiers. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
Samwise Everquest Run and Gun Mercenary Corps 100	Posted - 2014.10.10 13:40:00 - [32] - Quote Jarod Garamonde wrote: It's simple.... we ban the ISBoxers. ban the use of ISBoxer. so simple i am not sure why its still allowed. Blog Currently Under Construction http://everyoneonthedomi.blogspot.com/
Dave Stark 7051	Posted - 2014.10.10 13:43:00 - [33] - Quote Ocih wrote: Jarod Garamonde wrote: It's simple.... we ban the ISBoxers. And it removes a lot of issues in EVE. When 5 guys can symphony slaughter 200 actual players the game becomes a poopsock. It's a form of botting and everyone knows it. to be fair, if 200 guys decide to all sit within what, 15k of each other? they kinda deserve to get aoe'd to ****.
Snakebyte Jack Fear and Loathing in New Eden 40	Posted - 2014.10.10 13:52:00 - [34] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Ocih wrote: Jarod Garamonde wrote: It's simple.... we ban the ISBoxers. And it removes a lot of issues in EVE. When 5 guys can symphony slaughter 200 actual players the game becomes a poopsock. It's a form of botting and everyone knows it. to be fair, if 200 guys decide to all sit within what, 15k of each other? they kinda deserve to get aoe'd to ****. +1
Arsine Mayhem Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 292	Posted - 2014.10.10 13:55:00 - [35] - Quote Eugene Kerner wrote: O dear all those tears...how many of you have actually died to a bombing run in 0.0? A bomber blew up my ship. Nerf bombers. Nerf intercepters. Nerf drones. Nerf anything that can blow up my ship. Moar tears.
Arsine Mayhem Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 292	Posted - 2014.10.10 13:57:00 - [36] - Quote Mara Rinn wrote: And next month when CFC is flying bomber fleets, you'll be complaining that they're too hard to fly and don't offer effective risk/reward or some nonsense like that. Then it will be nerf ishtars.
Caviar Liberta Moira. Villore Accords 714	Posted - 2014.10.10 14:17:00 - [37] - Quote Aerakis Koskanaiken wrote: I read that there may be/is a nerf bat somewhere ready to take a swing at bombers Share the link where you read this please.
embrel BamBam Inc. Outlanders United 191	Posted - 2014.10.10 14:20:00 - [38] - Quote Samwise Everquest wrote: Jarod Garamonde wrote: It's simple.... we ban the ISBoxers. ban the use of ISBoxer. so simple i am not sure why its still allowed. I'm quite sure it's because of more accounts that are paid for. at least in the short run. Whether it leads to less paid accounts in the long run.... I'd guess so.
Jarod Garamonde Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 2026	Posted - 2014.10.10 14:44:00 - [39] - Quote embrel wrote: Samwise Everquest wrote: Jarod Garamonde wrote: It's simple.... we ban the ISBoxers. ban the use of ISBoxer. so simple i am not sure why its still allowed. I'm quite sure it's because of more accounts that are paid for. at least in the short run. Whether it leads to less paid accounts in the long run.... I'd guess so. CCP should be more concerned about QUALITY players. I've been a loyal customer for years, and I only own two accounts at a time. Gara, and my "this year's alt until I get bored and sell it"..... although, to be honest, my current alt is the best-focused character I've ever owned, so I may never get rid of her. ISBox players aren't quality.... they're using a cheap "I win button". Have you ever re-played an old game you used to enjoy with cheats enabled? It gets boring, fast. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
Nariya Kentaya The Pulsar Innovation Surely You're Joking 1578	Posted - 2014.10.10 14:47:00 - [40] - Quote GreenSeed wrote: bombers don't need a nerf, they need to have some its power moved from the front loading balance nightmare that bombs are, to a more sustained effect... maybe making bombs deal more damage, but deal it over time on an area instead of "BOOM fleet is gone". or removing bombs completely, and giving torps fired from bombers AOE (the code is there), and allowing bombers to re-cloak even when targeted. anything that will remove the insane alpha from bombs, while leaving bombers a viable deterrent to brainless blobs. so basically, make the item used to counter blobs, useless against blobs because they wont outdamage the reps. congratulations, nobel prize thinking right there.
Jarod Garamonde Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 2026	Posted - 2014.10.10 14:47:00 - [41] - Quote Plus, ISBoxer fleets make quality players not want to play. By continuing to allow ISBoxers to do what they do, you're risking driving loyal players away from the game, in favor of a guy with 20 accounts who's just going to end up quitting when the next hot-ticket MMO goes live. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
Dave Stark 7054	Posted - 2014.10.10 15:39:00 - [42] - Quote Jarod Garamonde wrote: Plus, ISBoxer fleets make quality players not want to play. source, if you'd be so kind?
Lady Thanatos Heaven's End League of Infamy 21	Posted - 2014.10.10 16:22:00 - [43] - Quote Jarod Garamonde wrote: Plus, ISBoxer fleets make quality players not want to play. By continuing to allow ISBoxers to do what they do, you're risking driving loyal players away from the game, in favor of a guy with 20 accounts who's just going to end up quitting when the next hot-ticket MMO goes live. Don't think so highly of yourself. If you are complaining about ISBoxers then you are not a "quality" player.
Black Panpher Ganja Inc 1899	Posted - 2014.10.10 16:27:00 - [44] - Quote Don't ruin solo bombing, if you must nerf, do it to the gangs somehow. Please.
Yarda Black Militaris Industries Northern Coalition. 454	Posted - 2014.10.10 16:37:00 - [45] - Quote I've had my ass handed to me by bombers for years. With or without the new cloak rule and with or without ISBoxer. I've witnessed the end of standard battleship doctrines because of it. There's even a very recent CFC bombingrun explaining why. Although ISBoxer prebably makes it easier, I still think a proper bombing run takes skill. Cos I've also shot alot of bombers that didn't live up to the mark. If the AOE becomes smaller, it should be all good in my opinion.
Zimmy Zeta Lisa Needs Braces. 48122	Posted - 2014.10.10 16:59:00 - [46] - Quote Power projection getting nerfed, bombers getting nerfed....now if we get a POS update too, I will be seriously running out of reasons to stay away from nullsec... I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Notorious Fellon 345	Posted - 2014.10.10 17:42:00 - [47] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Jarod Garamonde wrote: Plus, ISBoxer fleets make quality players not want to play. source, if you'd be so kind? It is not hard to find players that are unhappy with Isboxer's allowed use if you bother to read the forums, reddit or talk to people. Wether or not they are "quality players" is not for you to determine alone as it is subjective.
Grimpak Shifting Sands Trader Cartel Bleak Horizon Alliance. 2418	Posted - 2014.10.10 17:44:00 - [48] - Quote so, the weekly-or-something-monthly-ban-isboxer thread came in cloaked up this time? [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img] [quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Harrison Tato Yamato Holdings 153	Posted - 2014.10.10 17:59:00 - [49] - Quote Jarod Garamonde wrote: Plus, ISBoxer fleets make quality players not want to play. By continuing to allow ISBoxers to do what they do, you're risking driving loyal players away from the game, in favor of a guy with 20 accounts who's just going to end up quitting when the next hot-ticket MMO goes live. At least you can't pay to win in this game...............
Harrison Tato Yamato Holdings 153	Posted - 2014.10.10 18:00:00 - [50] - Quote Zimmy Zeta wrote: Power projection getting nerfed, bombers getting nerfed....now if we get a POS update too, I will be seriously running out of reasons to stay away from nullsec... Other than most people don't want to be cubicle drones in their gaming lives too.
Brandon Shi State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.10.10 18:12:00 - [51] - Quote Honestly bombers are fine the way they are. the only nerf I could see ccp giving them is reduce the number of bombs that can be use in the same area its currently 7 now I believe or make it so they can only carry 1 bomb and have to dock up for a reload. those are the only two ways I can see a stealth bomber getting nerfed with out killing what it is. I hope they stay the way they are tho there is no need to change the them they work as they should. as far a ISboxxer goes thats an issue all on its own that has nothing to do with bombers you dont nerf/bance things around players that use ISboxxer thats just silly
PotatoOverdose Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS. 2252	Posted - 2014.10.10 19:40:00 - [52] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Jarod Garamonde wrote: Plus, ISBoxer fleets make quality players not want to play. source, if you'd be so kind? In order for his statement to be strictly true, you only need a player or two to support his assertion. So, source: me. Though I'm not sure if I qualify for the "quality" bit. Let me explain. Time was, bombing was an activity done by groups of 8+ dudes. It took coordination to pull off, and was generally quite fun. Large and small alliances alike had bomber fc's and dedicated bomber groups. It was great. Fast forward to today. There is little that 8 actual people playing the game can do in terms of bombing runs that won't be done with greater coordination and efficiency by a lone isboxing bomber. Moreover, in a fleet this frees up the other 7+ guys for other roles. Not using an isboxer for your bomber needs gimps your fleet in today's eve. These days everyone from PL, the CFC, Moa, pasta, nulli, or any number of other groups use isboxed bombers for their bombing needs. That means fewer actual players launching bombs, and that makes me sad.
Liafcipe9000 Critically Preposterous 24292	Posted - 2014.10.10 19:45:00 - [53] - Quote Ocih wrote: Jarod Garamonde wrote: It's simple.... we ban the ISBoxers. And it removes a lot of issues in EVE. When 5 guys can symphony slaughter 200 actual players the game becomes a poopsock. It's a form of botting and everyone knows it. ahem... Rooks And Kings. Frostys Virpio > CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase I like to gank it, gank it!
Black Canary Jnr Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance 121	Posted - 2014.10.10 20:01:00 - [54] - Quote Well on SiSI cloaked ships are decloaking each other when cloaked so i suspect that they are going to be changed. Do they deserve a nerf? Yes. What needs to change is that you can bomb, warp off, and very quickly be setup to bomb before your timer is even finished, and each wave if you are delivering a full bomber wing is like 50K + ehp nuke spread equally over a 15km radius sphere, making bombers the highest DPS ships on the field. Amazing damage should be challenging to apply though, as opposed to the www to me 0, www me at 0, align, decloak, bomb, warpout. That's 6 steps and the only thing that can go wrong is if someone presses that one button, and if the bomber FC cannot see a bubbler within 40 clicks. Not at all challenging at all for that 50k AOE nuke reward you get. Hopefully CCP implements the decloak changes currently on SiSi so we can have a 0.0 where bombers have some better counter play, and can actually **** up, and there is more effort involved with setting up bombing runs to get that huge amount of damage. ISBox needs banning from bombing and all forms of PVP, until it is it's always gonna be used with bombing. I fear that it's gonna be a fact of life in eve though, like botting and RMT.
Saisin State War Academy Caldari State 152	Posted - 2014.10.10 20:37:00 - [55] - Quote 1/ have the first bomb exploding destroy all other incoming bombs -> IsBoxer loose their automation advantage 2/ reasonably ii crease single bomb damage, now that only one will go off ona given bombing run -> bombing becomes a fun thing to do even when soloing, and wave of bombers can be thrown at staff with some coordination from large bombers wings., sequentially 3/ when a ship explode from a bomb damage, create a Shock wave that damages all ships close by -> a good bombing run versus a fleet not spread out can be as effective as a wing (IsBoxed or not) of bombers is now "surrender your ego, be free". innuendo. solo? There is a new hope http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/2014/05/ok-now-im-betting-man.html
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 129	Posted - 2014.10.10 21:18:00 - [56] - Quote Posting in a stealth ban Isboxer thread. The can of worms that opens
Dalto Bane V I R I I Ineluctable. 146	Posted - 2014.10.10 23:18:00 - [57] - Quote Turned in to a stealth ban ISBoxer thread, as I expected... Sure, +1, ban away so the players with VPN's can continue to use ISBoxer and the ones who aren't can go back to 1 or 2 accounts. I don't bot, I don't use ISBoxer for bombing fleets (much), but I am multiboxer who uses ISBoxer. My main reason for using ISBoxer is for the VideoFX (Window Input/Output for viewing multiple instances or parts of instances) but I have managed other ways of doing that and pass through input. The day ISBoxer is banned, I will shepherd the lost multiboxers out their in the ways of engineering their own clients to run efficiently without the shackles of ISBoxer... But then, what will you try to ban, the use of computers? Maybe you will turn your attention to macro'ed keyboards and mice, huh? So yeah, ban ISBoxer so I don't have to dredge through all the impotent comments including the words, "ban, nerf, not fair, quit, dying, overpowered, etc", and get on with some threads of substance. -As far as the original thread is concerned, this is not the change that is needed if it truly is what would be used to nerf multiboxer bombers. The change you are looking for has been mentioned before in various threads and website forums. have a random sequence of keys (2-3 keys would be sufficient) that must be pressed once activation of the bomb is initiated or a randomly positioned dialog box appears that requires an actually mouse click. There are a few other ideas out there that would fix this as well, but this is already a tl; *Dalto Bane for CSM10- Getting an early start. -á-My posts are my platform*
Harrison Tato Yamato Holdings 156	Posted - 2014.10.10 23:24:00 - [58] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Jarod Garamonde wrote: Plus, ISBoxer fleets make quality players not want to play. source, if you'd be so kind? In order for his statement to be strictly true, you only need a player or two to support his assertion. So, source: me. Though I'm not sure if I qualify for the "quality" bit. Let me explain. Time was, bombing was an activity done by groups of 8+ dudes. It took coordination to pull off, and was generally quite fun. Large and small alliances alike had bomber fc's and dedicated bomber groups. It was great. Fast forward to today. There is little that 8 actual people playing the game can do in terms of bombing runs that won't be done with greater coordination and efficiency by a lone isboxing bomber. Moreover, in a fleet this frees up the other 7+ guys for other roles. Not using an isboxer for your bomber needs gimps your fleet in today's eve. These days everyone from PL, the CFC, Moa, pasta, nulli, or any number of other groups use isboxed bombers for their bombing needs. That means fewer actual players launching bombs, and that makes me sad. Which plays into my idea. One player. One character in game period. I don't know how that would be accomplished but the whole alt thing is weak sauce imho. If you want to attack me with two ships or send a scout to jump ahead of you, a real MMO should force you to find multiple humans to work with.
Harrison Tato Yamato Holdings 156	Posted - 2014.10.10 23:29:00 - [59] - Quote Black Canary Jnr wrote: Well on SiSI cloaked ships are decloaking each other when cloaked so i suspect that they are going to be changed. Do they deserve a nerf? Yes. What needs to change is that you can bomb, warp off, and very quickly be setup to bomb before your timer is even finished, and each wave if you are delivering a full bomber wing is like 50K + ehp nuke spread equally over a 15km radius sphere, making bombers the highest DPS ships on the field in timer fights. Amazing damage should be challenging to apply though, as opposed to the www to me 0, www me at 0, align, decloak, bomb, warpout. That's 6 steps and the only thing that can go wrong is if someone presses that one button, and if the bomber FC cannot see a bubbler within 40 clicks. Not at all challenging at all for that 50k AOE nuke reward you get. Hopefully CCP implements the decloak changes currently on SiSi so we can have a 0.0 where bombers have some better counter play, and can actually **** up, and there is more effort involved with setting up bombing runs to get that huge amount of damage. ISBox needs banning from bombing and all forms of PVP, until it is it's always gonna be used with bombing. I fear that it's gonna be a fact of life in eve though, like botting and RMT. The stealth bomber is a submarine. A single submarine can (and has) sink (sank) the largest aircraft carriers that nations can field. I think one stealth bomber should be able to launch a volley of bombs ( not torpedos - face it, the torpedos in game are basically a 1 pounder deck gun) and destroy a carrier. :) Much work needs to be done on stealth bombers but nerfing them is not what they need.
Khan Wrenth Hedion University Amarr Empire 69	Posted - 2014.10.10 23:42:00 - [60] - Quote I must have missed something, can someone help me out? I see a lot of speculation on "upcoming stealth bomber nerfs", but in this thread I didn't see any specific way they are going to be nerfed, just speculation on how or why they could be nerfed (*except something about cloaked guys decloaking each other). So, I went to the dev announcement on Phoebe which mentioned, in passing, "stealth bomber and heavy interdictor balance passes...". I've clicked on links in that blog and they just go to long range jumping threads. I've looked elsewhere on the forums, and haven't seen any thread specific to stealth bombers. So where is all this chatter coming from? Is there a place where devs have laid out what changes are coming? If so, please link me. I'd like to join the discussion about stealth bombers, but I can't do that in a meaningful way without something concrete from CCP for me to start with. HTFU.-á Adapt or die.-á Beware the falcon punch.
Jarod Garamonde Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 2030	Posted - 2014.10.10 23:58:00 - [61] - Quote Lady Thanatos wrote: Jarod Garamonde wrote: Plus, ISBoxer fleets make quality players not want to play. By continuing to allow ISBoxers to do what they do, you're risking driving loyal players away from the game, in favor of a guy with 20 accounts who's just going to end up quitting when the next hot-ticket MMO goes live. Don't think so highly of yourself. If you are complaining about ISBoxers you are not a "quality" player. I may not be particularly good at this game, but I fancy myself a "quality player". I care about the community, I interact with other players as they deserve to be interacted with, and I am respectful but honest with the devs. I've been with EVE in one form or another from the beginning, and I will hopefully be there when it's time for EVE to say good-bye to us all. I am neither doomsayer nor white knight. I am a member of this community. There are plenty of players, ISBoxer or not, that are not and have no interest with being involved in the social aspect of the game. They are just like the RMT crowd.... they don't care about the game, or any of us. ISBoxers are solely responsible for this nerf, and a playstyle that used to be fun is going to suffer because of them. Dave Stark wrote: source, if you'd be so kind? Read this thread. Plenty of people are saying it, in not-so-many words. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
JC Anderson State Protectorate Caldari State 1164	Posted - 2014.10.11 01:28:00 - [62] - Quote For those of you who forgot, anything is better than the way they once were. Couldn't fit covert ops cloaking devices, used cruise missiles, and the stealth bomber skill effected how fast you could fly when cloaked as well as a modifier to allow you to tear up small and fast ships using cruise missiles. They actually moved faster cloaked than unclocked with stealth bomber 5. But could not warp cloaked since they couldn't fit the cov ops. :( Regardless, when did bombers start becoming an issue? Is it primarily the decloak issue, or is it the bombs that people are complaining about?
PotatoOverdose Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS. 2258	Posted - 2014.10.11 03:18:00 - [63] - Quote JC Anderson wrote: For those of you who forgot, anything is better than the way they once were. Couldn't fit covert ops cloaking devices, used cruise missiles, and the stealth bomber skill effected how fast you could fly when cloaked as well as a modifier to allow you to tear up small and fast ships using cruise missiles. They actually moved faster cloaked than unclocked with stealth bomber 5. But could not warp cloaked since they couldn't fit the cov ops. :( Regardless, when did bombers start becoming an issue? Is it primarily the decloak issue, or is it the bombs that people are complaining about? Idk, I recall something about bombers being able to blap frigates in the olden days.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6441	Posted - 2014.10.11 03:22:00 - [64] - Quote JC Anderson wrote: Regardless, when did bombers start becoming an issue? Is it primarily the decloak issue, or is it the bombs that people are complaining about? If you've been vaporized by Boat and you know he and like 15 guys are giggling madly as the killmails of your elitepvp fits are splattered all over fleetchat Yeah ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Jarod Garamonde Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 2030	Posted - 2014.10.11 03:38:00 - [65] - Quote JC Anderson wrote: For those of you who forgot, anything is better than the way they once were. Couldn't fit covert ops cloaking devices, used cruise missiles, and the stealth bomber skill effected how fast you could fly when cloaked as well as a modifier to allow you to tear up small and fast ships using cruise missiles. They actually moved faster cloaked than unclocked with stealth bomber 5. But could not warp cloaked since they couldn't fit the cov ops. :( Regardless, when did bombers start becoming an issue? Is it primarily the decloak issue, or is it the bombs that people are complaining about? It's the ISBoxers. Period. ISBoxer needs the banhammer. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
Kalissis 123	Posted - 2014.10.11 04:18:00 - [66] - Quote ISBoxer are nearly not affected by this, you can just adjust your configuration. Other not so strict bomber groups are done for, Bombers Bar bombing runs RIP.
Jarod Garamonde Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 2030	Posted - 2014.10.11 04:40:00 - [67] - Quote Kalissis wrote: ISBoxer are nearly not affected by this, you can just adjust your configuration. Other not so strict bomber groups are done for, Bombers Bar bombing runs RIP. To be fair, Bombers Bar was done for, when DNS Black decided it would be a totally awesome idea to involve his nullsec alliance in DUST. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
Dalto Bane V I R I I Ineluctable. 146	Posted - 2014.10.11 05:37:00 - [68] - Quote https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5108193#post5108193 We are getting way off topic. I have created a thread to continue the ISBoxer discussion so that we can get back on track. Come at me bro *Dalto Bane for CSM10- Getting an early start. -á-My posts are my platform*
Josef Djugashvilis 2595	Posted - 2014.10.11 06:51:00 - [69] - Quote Ocih wrote: Jarod Garamonde wrote: It's simple.... we ban the ISBoxers. And it removes a lot of issues in EVE. When 5 guys can symphony slaughter 200 actual players the game becomes a poopsock. It's a form of botting and everyone knows it. Apart from CCP... This is not a signature.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6442	Posted - 2014.10.11 06:59:00 - [70] - Quote Kalissis wrote: ISBoxer are nearly not affected by this, you can just adjust your configuration. Other not so strict bomber groups are done for, Bombers Bar bombing runs RIP. The future is fleets of bombers where you have 5 multiboxers? ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 4335	Posted - 2014.10.11 11:15:00 - [71] - Quote I'm all for the nerfs as long as it continues causing moxnix to sperg out about "the cartels" some more. This change shouldn;t really make much of a difference to guys who are actually good at bombing runs, just to multiboxers controlling them all through fleet warps alone, so sounds like a good change. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Crimson Draufgange Extreme Overkill Inc. 2	Posted - 2014.10.11 20:51:00 - [72] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: Just remove bombs aoe. They explode on impact. Deal even more damage. Like 15-20k alpha. Now you have bombs. Like they did with Doomsdays, which, by the way, are being enabled in low sec. Bombs in low sec, please please please please please please. - Crimson Draufgange, CEO of Extreme Overkill Inc.
Spy 21 Infidelia Black 222	Posted - 2014.10.11 21:49:00 - [73] - Quote Milan Nantucket wrote: I have had bombs chucked at me. They need a buff because i have yet to be blowed up by one. I did blow myself up once... .... or twice S Obfuscation for the WIN on page 3...
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 130	Posted - 2014.10.11 22:55:00 - [74] - Quote Crimson Draufgange wrote: Bombs in low sec, please please please please please please. I would find this fantastically fun. It will make the learning curve for high sec newbies venturing into low sec even steeper.
Freako X Doom Inc 149	Posted - 2014.10.11 23:49:00 - [75] - Quote Perhaps there are plans for different types of bombers: 1. Torpedo only. 2. Rapid heavy. 3. Bomb only (lower delay or multiple launchers) 4. Current version. 5. Capital torp (1 - 2 launchers) Maybe a combat only version with no recon stealth bonus (more hp and resists) Or maybe they are updating med, lower slot lay-out, changes to fitting, mass, etc so that nemesis and manticore are as frequently used as purifier or hound. Maybe remove damage type bonus and move to generic?
Crimson Draufgange Extreme Overkill Inc. 4	Posted - 2014.10.12 02:45:00 - [76] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: Crimson Draufgange wrote: Bombs in low sec, please please please please please please. I would find this fantastically fun. It will make the learning curve for high sec newbies venturing into low sec even steeper. It would be a ton of fun! The learning curve wouldn't be to bad. Did I mention the fun? - Crimson Draufgange, CEO of Extreme Overkill Inc.
JC Anderson State Protectorate Caldari State 1167	Posted - 2014.10.12 07:15:00 - [77] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Idk, I recall something about bombers being able to blap frigates in the olden days. Old bonuses on them were to moving while cloaked speed, and then the other mucked around with explosion velocity when you fired at small ships... Or maybe it increased their signature radius. I can't remember the exact method that was used.
JC Anderson State Protectorate Caldari State 1167	Posted - 2014.10.12 07:19:00 - [78] - Quote Spy 21 wrote: Milan Nantucket wrote: I have had bombs chucked at me. They need a buff because i have yet to be blowed up by one. I did blow myself up once... .... or twice S Always funny to see the final blow on a loss mail listed as the very same person who had their ship explode. :P
Oxide Ammar 165	Posted - 2014.10.12 07:33:00 - [79] - Quote JC Anderson wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Idk, I recall something about bombers being able to blap frigates in the olden days. Old bonuses on them were to moving while cloaked speed, and then the other mucked around with explosion velocity when you fired at small ships... Or maybe it increased their signature radius. I can't remember the exact method that was used. I watched multiple old youtube videos of bombers with cruise missiles, they were able to instant blap frig at 0 m/s Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Nex Killer Perkone Caldari State 87	Posted - 2014.10.12 07:56:00 - [80] - Quote I like cookies.
Vel'drinn Sol Research and Development Aurora Foundation 37	Posted - 2014.10.12 11:06:00 - [81] - Quote Covert cloakies decloaking each other would suck by proximity. As is you have the challenge level of one dude failing to engage his cloak in large fleets wrecking a shot at a bombing run. Fleet movements are not going to be manageable in anything greater than a squad. I don't get the regression in mechanics, these fleets are DESIGNED to be sneaky and people are not supposed to like them. This is especially true for anchored fleets. This is just going to making covert fleets annoying to fly. You won't have time to get everyone setup on their own tacs and bomb spots before bombing fleets. The battlefield may change too much in that time but its more about the time to set things up properly. Warpins at range by squad to launch bombs is going to expose the whole fleet a lot more. I'm sure bomber FCs are getting nightmares thinking about it. Decloaking is simply going to take a lot of fun with bomber fleets right out. Pulling off a good run takes planning and skill. The concepts are simple enough but those that consistently pull them off know the intricacies of bombing runs and the limitations of the most fragile frigates in game. Furthermore, bombers are a weapon in the world of coalitions that allow the few to take on the many. I would like to get a dev blog that really highlights 'the problem' as all I see here are distractions towards other issues.
Vel'drinn Sol Research and Development Aurora Foundation 39	Posted - 2014.10.12 11:06:24 - [82] - Quote Covert cloakies decloaking each other would suck by proximity. As is you have the challenge level of one dude failing to engage his cloak in large fleets wrecking a shot at a bombing run. Fleet movements are not going to be manageable in anything greater than a squad. I don't get the regression in mechanics, these fleets are DESIGNED to be sneaky and people are not supposed to like them. This is especially true for anchored fleets. This is just going to making covert fleets annoying to fly. You won't have time to get everyone setup on their own tacs and bomb spots before bombing fleets. The battlefield may change too much in that time but its more about the time to set things up properly. Warpins at range by squad to launch bombs is going to expose the whole fleet a lot more. I'm sure bomber FCs are getting nightmares thinking about it. Decloaking is simply going to take a lot of fun with bomber fleets right out. Pulling off a good run takes planning and skill. The concepts are simple enough but those that consistently pull them off know the intricacies of bombing runs and the limitations of the most fragile frigates in game. Furthermore, bombers are a weapon in the world of coalitions that allow the few to take on the many. I would like to get a dev blog that really highlights 'the problem' as all I see here are distractions towards other issues.
BrundleMeth Caldari Provisions Caldari State 257	Posted - 2014.10.12 11:42:00 - [83] - Quote Here is some peoples train of thought... Item X killed me x number of times. This means X is over powered and needs a nerf because I couldn't possibly be the problem...
BrundleMeth Caldari Provisions Caldari State 304	Posted - 2014.10.12 11:42:20 - [84] - Quote Here is some peoples train of thought... Item X killed me x number of times. This means X is over powered and needs a nerf because I couldn't possibly be the problem...
Decian Cor Disconnected. Ineluctable. 179	Posted - 2014.10.13 00:52:00 - [85] - Quote I think any talk of removing AOE from bombs is ridiculously stupid. What do you think a bomb is? Bombs are literally MEANT to be area of effect. That's why when you drop a JDAM on some insurgents, you have to be cognizant of the blast radius and the surrounding buildings and area, friendlies, etc. If you want to remove bombs all together, then do so. But don't take away the effects of a BOMB, and still try to call it a BOMB. TL; DR ban ISKboxing. Unfiltered for the masses. http://imgur.com/mzSl1Ie
Decian Cor Trust Doesn't Rust Triumvirate. 191	Posted - 2014.10.13 00:52:28 - [86] - Quote I think any talk of removing AOE from bombs is ridiculously stupid. What do you think a bomb is? Bombs are literally MEANT to be area of effect. That's why when you drop a JDAM on some insurgents, you have to be cognizant of the blast radius and the surrounding buildings and area, friendlies, etc. If you want to remove bombs all together, then do so. But don't take away the effects of a BOMB, and still try to call it a BOMB. TL; DR ban ISKboxing. [u]Unfiltered for the masses.[/u] http://imgur.com/mzSl1Ie
Soldarius Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore 831	Posted - 2014.10.13 14:44:00 - [87] - Quote There is nothing wrong with the cloaking mechanics for bombers. The problem is not bombers, covert cloaks, or even ISBoxer (in this case). The number of bombers that can be ISBoxed successfully is limited by the number of bombs that can be simultaneously launched before they start destroying each other. That number is exactly 8. If your fleet was destroyed by a single squad of bombers, it was because you don't know how bombs work, how to mitigate their damage, or how to craft a fleet that can survive it. This is why shield doctrines are so rare in nulsec these days. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Concussion_Bomb FACT: Each bomb has a 99.5% armor resistance to its own damage type an nothing to other damage types. FACT: Each bomb has 240 armor HP and 50 structure HP. No shields. FACT: Each bomb does between 6400 and 8000 damage based on skills and whether it is loaded in its matching racial bomber. FACT: Each Stealth Bomber has a +5% damage bonus to bombs of its racial damage type per Covert Ops skill level. FACT: Every bomb has an explosion radius of 400 meters. (This is not the same as its AoE, which is 15km.) FACT: Every bomb has a signature radius of 400 meters. This means with the minimum skills required (covops 1) a bomb will do 6400 damage to bombs of other types (instantly annihilating every other type of bomb within 15km), and exactly 6400*(1-.995)=32 damage to its own type. So it will take 240/32=7.5 (rounded to 8) bombs to destroy another bomb of the same type. If there are enough bonused bombs, that number will be reduced to 7. Therefore, only as many as 8 bombs can be launched in the same direction from the same location at once before they start destroying each other, which means that an ISBoxed bomber fleet is limited to 8 bombers. If your fleet can't take 8 bombs, you're doing it wrong. Since armor doctrines tend to have much smaller signature radii than shield doctrines (400 being the magic number), they are now the dominant tanking type in nulsec due to reduced bomb damage. Hence, baltec fleet, AHACs, etc. There are a number of defenses to bombs. If you kill the bomber that launched the bomb before it detonates, the bomb will not detonate. If you destroy the bomb before it detonates... duh. They have a 400sigRad and very few HP. Zap them. If your dictors surround your fleet with bubbles, bombers will have a very hard time engaging you because they won't be able to warp at the proper ranges, and/or they may get caught and die. For God's sake turn off your microwarp drive. They increase your signature radius by a huge amount. Don't try to MJD out. It also increases your sigrad. By the time you see the bombs and activate it, its too late. (Server ticks OP.) In short, bombs are powerful but only when used properly. Both bombs and bombers are fragile and easily destroyed. They have multiple counters. The only issue I see is how bombs have pushed shield doctrines out despite the obvious counters. I believe this is more a problem with the penalties given to shield extenders and shield rigs in relation to the damage application formula. For example, a typical Rokh with 3x CDFEs and 1 LSE will have a 592m signature radius before links. A max-skilled and mindlinked Claymore can reduce this to 388 meters. A Baltec Megathron will have a base sigRad of 380 meters. Holy crap, that a big difference. Now add in the armor equivalent Eos-links and that gets further reduced to 249 meters. The Rokh gets almost no reduction to bomb damage. Yet the Mega gets a ~37.5% reduction. Armor tanks have skills that reduce their penalties. Why do shields not have skills to reduce their sigRad penalties? CCP, give us a skill to reduce the sigRad penalty of shield extenders. There is already one for shield rigs. (Shield Rigging) GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥ -Grath Telkin, 2014. Free PASTA!
Soldarius Deadman W0nderland The 99 Percent 891	Posted - 2014.10.13 14:44:11 - [88] - Quote There is nothing wrong with the cloaking mechanics for bombers. The problem is not bombers, covert cloaks, or even ISBoxer (in this case). The number of bombers that can be ISBoxed successfully is limited by the number of bombs that can be simultaneously launched before they start destroying each other. That number is exactly 8. If your fleet was destroyed by a single squad of bombers, it was because you don't know how bombs work, how to mitigate their damage, or how to craft a fleet that can survive it. This is why shield doctrines are so rare in nulsec these days. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Concussion_Bomb FACT: Each bomb has a 99.5% armor resistance to its own damage type an nothing to other damage types. FACT: Each bomb has 240 armor HP and 50 structure HP. No shields. FACT: Each bomb does between 6400 and 8000 damage based on skills and whether it is loaded in its matching racial bomber. FACT: Each Stealth Bomber has a +5% damage bonus to bombs of its racial damage type per Covert Ops skill level. FACT: Every bomb has an explosion radius of 400 meters. (This is not the same as its AoE, which is 15km.) FACT: Every bomb has a signature radius of 400 meters. This means with the minimum skills required (covops 1) a bomb will do 6400 damage to bombs of other types (instantly annihilating every other type of bomb within 15km), and exactly 6400*(1-.995)=32 damage to its own type. So it will take 240/32=7.5 (rounded to 8) bombs to destroy another bomb of the same type. If there are enough bonused bombs, that number will be reduced to 7. Therefore, only as many as 8 bombs can be launched in the same direction from the same location at once before they start destroying each other, which means that an ISBoxed bomber fleet is limited to 8 bombers. If your fleet can't take 8 bombs, you're doing it wrong. Since armor doctrines tend to have much smaller signature radii than shield doctrines (400 being the magic number), they are now the dominant tanking type in nulsec due to reduced bomb damage. Hence, baltec fleet, AHACs, etc. There are a number of defenses to bombs. If you kill the bomber that launched the bomb before it detonates, the bomb will not detonate. If you destroy the bomb before it detonates... duh. They have a 400sigRad and very few HP. Zap them. If your dictors surround your fleet with bubbles, bombers will have a very hard time engaging you because they won't be able to warp at the proper ranges, and/or they may get caught and die. For God's sake turn off your microwarp drive. They increase your signature radius by a huge amount. Don't try to MJD out. It also increases your sigrad. By the time you see the bombs and activate it, its too late. (Server ticks OP.) In short, bombs are powerful but only when used properly. Both bombs and bombers are fragile and easily destroyed. They have multiple counters. The only issue I see is how bombs have pushed shield doctrines out despite the obvious counters. I believe this is more a problem with the penalties given to shield extenders and shield rigs in relation to the damage application formula. For example, a typical Rokh with 3x CDFEs and 1 LSE will have a 592m signature radius before links. A max-skilled and mindlinked Claymore can reduce this to 388 meters. A Baltec Megathron will have a base sigRad of 380 meters. Holy crap, that a big difference. Now add in the armor equivalent Eos-links and that gets further reduced to 249 meters. The Rokh gets almost no reduction to bomb damage. Yet the Mega gets a ~37.5% reduction. Armor tanks have skills that reduce their penalties. Why do shields not have skills to reduce their sigRad penalties? CCP, give us a skill to reduce the sigRad penalty of shield extenders. There is already one for shield rigs. (Shield Rigging) http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Jarod Garamonde Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 2259	Posted - 2014.11.26 09:16:12 - [89] - Quote Remember that one time when I said Jarod Garamonde wrote: It's simple.... we ban the ISBoxers. and then it happened? Good times. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... `[#savethelance]`
Ormand Audel 14th Legion The Bloc 13	Posted - 2014.11.26 09:55:54 - [90] - Quote Soldarius wrote: Armor tanks have skills that reduce their penalties. Why do shields not have skills to reduce their sigRad penalties? CCP, give us a skill to reduce the sigRad penalty of shield extenders. There is already one for shield rigs. (Shield Rigging) Because shields have passive regen is my guess. E: Actually, I thought about that a bit more and the equivalent of passive regen for armor is the large buffer.. So I suppose a skill makes sense? And Jarod, ISBoxer isn't being banned. Certain features are, but it's not isboxer specific.
Eugene Kerner TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory. 1424	Posted - 2014.11.26 11:04:41 - [91] - Quote Jarod Garamonde wrote: Remember that one time when I said Jarod Garamonde wrote: It's simple.... we ban the ISBoxers. and then it happened? Good times. Necrothread...for the best reason...self adulation. TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] " -á CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
Aralyn Cormallen Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 605	Posted - 2014.11.26 13:03:25 - [92] - Quote Thatt Guy wrote: wahhh....... mommy those people are better at this game than me, ban them mommy!!! wahhh....... ISBoxer is legal. If you can't afford to use it,(or aren't smart enough) that's your problem. lrn2eve jelly much? Heh heh heh
War Kitten Panda McLegion 5544	Posted - 2014.11.26 13:05:38 - [93] - Quote Eugene Kerner wrote: Jarod Garamonde wrote: Remember that one time when I said Jarod Garamonde wrote: It's simple.... we ban the ISBoxers. and then it happened? Good times. Necrothread...for the best reason...self adulation. Not empty-quoting. I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
Leannor Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates. 16	Posted - 2014.11.26 13:11:32 - [94] - Quote Aerakis Koskanaiken wrote: I read that there may be/is a nerf bat somewhere ready to take a swing at bombers. I've only recently started flying them, and have already seen how insanely effective they are for wiping out entire fleets with little to no counter available. There are a lot of fits and ship types which may be excluded from doctrines/fun fleets because a handful of bombers will wipe them out. From your experiences, do bombers need a nerf? If they do, what do you the players think the best way to bring them back into balance would be? Interested to hear what others think. and you wonder why they are the subject of a nerf? lol "Lykouleon wrote: STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"
Leannor Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates. 16	Posted - 2014.11.26 13:15:47 - [95] - Quote Ormand Audel wrote: Soldarius wrote: Armor tanks have skills that reduce their penalties. Why do shields not have skills to reduce their sigRad penalties? CCP, give us a skill to reduce the sigRad penalty of shield extenders. There is already one for shield rigs. (Shield Rigging) Because shields have passive regen is my guess. E: Actually, I thought about that a bit more and the equivalent of passive regen for armor is the large buffer.. So I suppose a skill makes sense? And Jarod, ISBoxer isn't being banned. Certain features are, but it's not isboxer specific. I'm new to this whole boxer thing and argument. Though from what little I've gleaned it would seem to be a third party mechanism that fits under the same ban as the macros miners of old? The fact it's apparently legal clearly means it's not ... but I'm curious how it manages to side step it. Any genuine volunteers to explain it better and breifly? NB, ... I don't care what people do to do stuff in game ... that's for CCP to worry about. I'm just concerned with dealing with what I see in front of me in game, be that one ship or ten's of ships ... 'how' they're controlled makes diddly squat to me. :) "Lykouleon wrote: STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"
Jarod Garamonde Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 2268	Posted - 2014.11.26 15:53:40 - [96] - Quote Ormand Audel wrote: And Jarod, ISBoxer isn't being banned. Certain features are, but it's not isboxer specific. Close enough.... That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... `[#savethelance]`
Sentamon Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 2236	Posted - 2014.11.26 21:01:13 - [97] - Quote You should be more upset at 200 people sitting in none place ganking small gangs then 5 bomber pilots wiping out a fleet of drooling F1 monkeys sitting on one place with no counters besides n+1. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
45thtiger 0109 AL3XAND3R. 115	Posted - 2014.11.26 22:46:09 - [98] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Ban ISBoxers. Bombers fixed. Mining Fixed. ISBoxer whine threads fixed. Its like killing the Batman. Its simple and literally solves everything. You Mean ISBombers You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good. Welcome to EvE OnLiNe
knobber Jobbler Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 479	Posted - 2014.11.26 23:46:26 - [99] - Quote Vel'drinn wrote: Covert cloakies decloaking each other would suck by proximity. As is you have the challenge level of one dude failing to engage his cloak in large fleets wrecking a shot at a bombing run. Fleet movements are not going to be manageable in anything greater than a squad. I don't get the regression in mechanics, these fleets are DESIGNED to be sneaky and people are not supposed to like them. This is especially true for anchored fleets. This is just going to making covert fleets annoying to fly. You won't have time to get everyone setup on their own tacs and bomb spots before bombing fleets. The battlefield may change too much in that time but its more about the time to set things up properly. Warpins at range by squad to launch bombs is going to expose the whole fleet a lot more. I'm sure bomber FCs are getting nightmares thinking about it. Decloaking is simply going to take a lot of fun with bomber fleets right out. Pulling off a good run takes planning and skill. The concepts are simple enough but those that consistently pull them off know the intricacies of bombing runs and the limitations of the most fragile frigates in game. Furthermore, bombers are a weapon in the world of coalitions that allow the few to take on the many. I would like to get a dev blog that really highlights 'the problem' as all I see here are distractions towards other issues. We did it before the change well enough, in fleets. Man up, learn how to use bombers without the training wheels.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode isd community communications liaisons 3494	Posted - 2014.11.27 04:23:19 - [100] - Quote Removed some off topic posts. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Blastcaps Madullier Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS. 157	Posted - 2014.11.27 11:33:07 - [101] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: No one really had a problem with bombers until they stopped decloaking one another and could be isboxed. Just sayin'. Actually potato iirc CCP said that was a bug, which they fixed as it effected more than just bombers...
Hevymetal Eve Defence Force Cult of War 398	Posted - 2014.11.27 14:27:52 - [102] - Quote The proper nerf has been announced and will soon be deployed. The banning of ISO boxer accounts.
Soldarius Deadman W0nderland The 99 Percent 893	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:10:39 - [103] - Quote Proposed changes to cloaking reverted. Multiplexing/broadcasting banned. Bombers still got more base tank and fitting with only slightly worse agility. Bomber net buff. Bomb flight time and velocity slightly adjusted. Very slight nerf. Final tally: Slight buff. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Lister Dax Intergalactic Trade and Harm 23	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:35:29 - [104] - Quote Jarod Garamonde wrote: Remember that one time when I said Jarod Garamonde wrote: It's simple.... we ban the ISBoxers. and then it happened? Good times. Except they didn't......
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 5753	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:59:26 - [105] - Quote Sentamon wrote: You should be more upset at 200 people sitting in none place ganking small gangs then 5 bomber pilots wiping out a fleet of drooling F1 monkeys sitting on one place with no counters besides n+1. QFT Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 4452	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:55:10 - [106] - Quote Soldarius wrote: Proposed changes to cloaking reverted. Multiplexing/broadcasting banned. Bombers still got more base tank and fitting with only slightly worse agility. Bomber net buff. Bomb flight time and velocity slightly adjusted. Very slight nerf. Final tally: Slight buff. Indeed. They took the most overpowered class of ship and made it slightly more powerful. CCP: 1, Balance: 0 The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp Vae. Victis. 6060	Posted - 2014.12.02 20:58:49 - [107] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Soldarius wrote: Proposed changes to cloaking reverted. Multiplexing/broadcasting banned. Bombers still got more base tank and fitting with only slightly worse agility. Bomber net buff. Bomb flight time and velocity slightly adjusted. Very slight nerf. Final tally: Slight buff. Indeed. They took the most overpowered class of ship and made it slightly more powerful. CCP: 1, Balance: 0 By removing what was the most abused part of the bomber equation. That being the ability for one person to effectively fly a fleet of bombers effortlessly with the broadcast capabilities of ISBoxer. It can still be done if you are well organized, but the chances for error are much higher now... and of course a gang of individual pilots is dangerous if well organized. View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.

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