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Nanofibers vs Inertia Stabilizers - So what's the difference?

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Leon 026 Caldari Blood Inquisition	Posted - 2006.08.14 02:02:00 - [1] Edited by: Leon 026 on 14/08/2006 02:03:28 In the devblog by Tux ( http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=361 ) : Quote: I've mentioned that we made a minor adjustment to inertial stabilizers. They now give you a mass reduction as well as agility bonus. Fitting an inertia stabilizer now gives you bigger velocity bonus when you fit an MWD and an AB and makes you more agile. However mass is now stacking nerfed, it doesn't affect any other module though since inertia stabilizers are the only module that affects mass in a multiplicative way. It is stated that inertia stabilizers increases agility and speed when MWD is active... but how does that differentiate from nanofibers and inertia stabilizers when T2 inertia stabilizers arent even in the game yet (bear in mind, nor are T2 nanofibers)? Lets compare current nanofibers and inertia stabs : Nanofiber Interal Structure I : +20 m/s velocity -15% structure hp -12.5% inertia Beta Hull Nanofiber Structure : +23% m/s velocity -15% structure hp -15% inertia Inertia Stabilizer I : +0 m/s -0% structure -10% inertia Beta Hull Inertia Stabilizer +0 m/s -0% structure -13% inertia multipler Ignoring the inertia's bonus to speed with MWD, the nanofiber already offers more speed in general (which transfers to additional speed with MWD) and -12.5% inertia for agility compared to the inertia stab's -10%. Only visible difference is the nanofiber's penalty on structure, which doesnt really do much; and aside from that these two modules are almost identical with the miniscule difference to inertia % hardly doing any difference in agility. Question is, is this mass difference going to make inertia stabilizers more viable over nanofibers? Will the agility bonus on inertia stabs be active when the MWD/AB is fitted but not active, or do they only give effect when MWD/AB is being used? And most importantly, you have nanofibers doing almost the same exact thing, whats the difference in agility and speed difference between the two to make either more worthwhile than the other, because at the moment I just see inertia stab being just another nanofiber with a different fancy description for the same purpose. ------------------------------- [ 2006.06.22 04:28:01 ] Leon 026 > My Crow dances like she's on ecstasy
Sinistro	Posted - 2006.08.14 05:11:00 - [2] I expect that the inertia is going to give the speed boost in combination with ab or mwd active ( mass reduction will efect the boost ). The diference between the inertias and the nanos, I think will be that the inertias will be faster with ab/mwd then the nanos and the nanos faster without ab/mwd ( active )
Kyguard LFC 3rd Front Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.14 05:42:00 - [3] I suspect inertia stabilisers will give a good speed bonus to your mwd speed instead of your normal speed, not what eve needs atm really.. === God is on the side with the best artillery.
MrRookie Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.14 07:03:00 - [4] The mass reduction will increase speed aswell as acceleration. Inertia/agility is the ability to turn and mainatin speed at the same time + accelerate if I'm not mistaking. It will be great for the the gallente blaster boats which usually are quite heavy and slow concidering their close range weponary. The Mega will be able to aproach alot faster, gaining speed faster and turning faster so I think it's great. Already fast ships with low mass like ceptors and minmitar ships shouldn't really need them. ________________________________________________
Laboratus Gallente BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:24:00 - [5] Inertial stabs make you warp faster. They reduce the time it takes to turn and accelerate to warp speed. Nanofibers increase your speed in addition to making the ship more agile, so you have to accelerate more to get to warp speed. Thus, for a travel setup ment to dodge pirates, use inertial stabs for insta warps. Mind control and tin hats
Sinistro	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:33:00 - [6] Originally by: Laboratus Inertial stabs make you warp faster. They reduce the time it takes to turn and accelerate to warp speed. Nanofibers increase your speed in addition to making the ship more agile, so you have to accelerate more to get to warp speed. Thus, for a travel setup ment to dodge pirates, use inertial stabs for insta warps.
Serious Bob	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:46:00 - [7] Originally by: Sinistro Edited by: Sinistro on 14/08/2006 08:36:54 Edited by: Sinistro on 14/08/2006 08:36:19 Originally by: Laboratus Inertial stabs make you warp faster. They reduce the time it takes to turn and accelerate to warp speed. Nanofibers increase your speed in addition to making the ship more agile, so you have to accelerate more to get to warp speed. Thus, for a travel setup ment to dodge pirates, use inertial stabs for insta warps. This is the way now but the patch notes say: ------------------------------------ Fitting an inertia stabilizer now gives you bigger velocity bonus when you fit an MWD and an AB and makes you more agile ------------------------------------ So they get next to the agility bonus also a speed bonus with ab/mwd, this will make this mod a lot more interesting :) The speed mod isn't a bonus, it's an effect of the reduced mass.
Sinistro	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:55:00 - [8] Originally by: Serious Bob [/quote The speed mod isn't a bonus, it's an effect of the reduced mass. This leads to more speed, lighter ship will go faster with ab/mwd, so I see it as speed bonus in combination with ab/mwd
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.14 09:32:00 - [9] Originally by: Laboratus Inertial stabs make you warp faster. They reduce the time it takes to turn and accelerate to warp speed. Nanofibers increase your speed in addition to making the ship more agile, so you have to accelerate more to get to warp speed. Thus, for a travel setup ment to dodge pirates, use inertial stabs for insta warps. I remain unconvinced of this. As far as I'm aware, acceleration is proportional to your max speed (which is why it doesn't take half an hour to get up to MWD velocities). Initial testing with a nanobestower vs. a inertial stabiliser bestower were inconclusive as to whether there was a difference.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2006.08.14 10:48:00 - [10] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Laboratus Inertial stabs make you warp faster. They reduce the time it takes to turn and accelerate to warp speed. Nanofibers increase your speed in addition to making the ship more agile, so you have to accelerate more to get to warp speed. Thus, for a travel setup ment to dodge pirates, use inertial stabs for insta warps. I remain unconvinced of this. As far as I'm aware, acceleration is proportional to your max speed (which is why it doesn't take half an hour to get up to MWD velocities). Initial testing with a nanobestower vs. a inertial stabiliser bestower were inconclusive as to whether there was a difference. Correct, the tests I have done shown that max speed does not effect time to warp. The mass reduction is interesting, it would need to be fairly high to give enough extra speed with mwd to make them an alt to nanofibers. Lets do some math. A cruiser which people often put nanofibers on is the vagabond so let's use that for this. Base mass: 10.000.000 kg Base mass with mwd: 15.000.000 kg Base speed (max skill): 376 m/s Base speed with mwd (t2, max skills): 2978 m/s Speed with 1x localhull nanofiber: 416 m/s Speed with 1x lh nano+mwd: 3273 m/s Speed with 1x 10% mass reduction+mwd: 3220 m/s Speed with 1x 15% mass reduction+mwd: 3350 m/s Speed with 1x 20% mass reduction+mwd: 3479 m/s (note for this I assume the mass reduction is done after adding the penalty mass from the mwd, if it's done before they will have around 20-30% less effect). So I would say at least 20% to make it worth while on a vagabond, 20% less mass also mean 20% better agility compared to the 15% of the nano. Still with the stacking penalty these will get I think it looks ok. Stack 5 nanofibers on the vaga and you get 4454 m/s, stack 5 x 20% mass reduction with stacking penalty and you get 4754 m/s, combination of 3x 20% mass + 2 nanofiber would be 5342 m/s (now we are talking ) etc. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mudkest	Posted - 2006.08.14 11:10:00 - [11] I dont know if this been pointed out or not, but ship agility is affected by agility modifire(duh) and mass(and speed to some extend, going faster makes it harder to turn it seems). so the new inertia mods will increase agility and lower mass, both will increase ships turning/acceleration ability. so yeah fibres make you faster when ab/mwd is offline, the reduced mass from inertial stabs makes you faster only with mwd/ab active, it also increases your agility when its offline I have no idear how great the effect is though, but I'm guessing ships will become more agile(or equaly perhaps?) with stabs compared to current day fibres. well more a hope then a guess actually ;) - It is much more efficient to talk to yourself in person than via the chat system. Now imagine the unimaginable
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2006.08.14 11:31:00 - [12] Originally by: Hoshi So I would say at least 20% to make it worth while on a vagabond, 20% less mass also mean 20% better agility compared to the 15% of the nano. Still with the stacking penalty these will get I think it looks ok. Stack 5 nanofibers on the vaga and you get 4454 m/s, stack 5 x 20% mass reduction with stacking penalty and you get 4754 m/s, combination of 3x 20% mass + 2 nanofiber would be 5342 m/s (now we are talking ) etc. Bear in mind that top speed isn't the be-all and end-all of this - the mass reduction effect on agility is also important. Take my nano-ed viator as an example. It's usual runs are 15km burns to a gate using MWD. It doesn't get close to it's top speed. Depending on the balance of the trade-off, something that gave a slightly lower top speed, but increased my acceleration, could get me to the gate faster, as I'm being limited by my acceleration, not my top speed. Similarly, there are many smaller ships that tend to orbit targets so closely that they cannot maintain full speed in the orbit without drifting out of weapons range. In that situation, a lower top speed but more agility may allow them to generate more transverse speed from their orbit. I doubt inertial stabs are going to be "better nano's for AB/MWD users". They're just going to become a viable option when you need a different speed/agility tradeoff than nano's give. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2006.08.14 13:08:00 - [13] To convice people once and for all the nanofibers are better to get into warp faster than inerita stabs (using their current implementation). Tempest which 6 local hull nanos and max agility skills and 3% agility and speed implant take 9.05 sec (+-0.1 sec) to get into warp and have 365.65 m/sec max speed. With 6 local hull inertial stabs and same skills/implants it takes 10.0 sec (+-0.1 sec) and have a max speed of 180.25 m/s. Precis timing was produced using the events in the logserver. From the "Action: SetSpeedFrac" event to "Open Q:/spel/EVE 3/res/Sound/Effect/warp*****.blue" (this is the only event that shows that you enter warp) and multiple tests where done to make sure lag etc played no effect. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Justice Bringer Minmatar United Univers	Posted - 2006.08.15 13:22:00 - [14] Originally by: Hoshi To convice people once and for all the nanofibers are better to get into warp faster than inerita stabs (using their current implementation). Tempest which 6 local hull nanos and max agility skills and 3% agility and speed implant take 9.05 sec (+-0.1 sec) to get into warp and have 365.65 m/sec max speed. With 6 local hull inertial stabs and same skills/implants it takes 10.0 sec (+-0.1 sec) and have a max speed of 180.25 m/s. Precis timing was produced using the events in the logserver. From the "Action: SetSpeedFrac" event to "Open Q:/spel/EVE 3/res/Sound/Effect/warp*****.blue" (this is the only event that shows that you enter warp) and multiple tests where done to make sure lag etc played no effect. Why did you not do a comparison with a mixture of nanos and inertia stabilisers? Just my 2 cents worth, I use 1 of each on my Gila, and without having proper figures, it goes into warp faster than having 2 nanos. I'm sure you may find something similar iv you tried a 3/3 split on your Tempest. I'll try on my Mega when I get home tonight. Justice
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2006.08.15 15:23:00 - [15] Originally by: Justice Bringer Why did you not do a comparison with a mixture of nanos and inertia stabilisers? Just my 2 cents worth, I use 1 of each on my Gila, and without having proper figures, it goes into warp faster than having 2 nanos. I'm sure you may find something similar iv you tried a 3/3 split on your Tempest. I'll try on my Mega when I get home tonight. Justice Combination would only be interesting if there where a stacking penalty on agility. As there isn't one it's not much use mixing. But here are the test 3x local hull nano + 3x local hull inertia stab = 10.0 sec to warp. I must say I am supriced by this, thought it would be around 9.5sec. I retested with all nano/inertial to make sure there wasn't different lag conditions today but those values stayed the same. Btw when you are using the logsever you can see the agility value for the ship and how it changes when you switch mod. With no agility mods it's: 0.1083, with 6x nano: 0.0408, with 6x inertial: 0.0438 and with 3x/3x it's: 0.0423 (rounded to 4 decimals). --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mudkest	Posted - 2006.08.15 15:43:00 - [16] those get into warp tests, is that on test server with the updated stabs, or on life? I mean if it's on life with fibres giving more agil bonus then stabs it doesnt really come to me as a big surprise that fibres are better for agility ;) if its on test server with reduced mass from stabs then its pretty sucky :/ - It is much more efficient to talk to yourself in person than via the chat system. Now imagine the unimaginable
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2006.08.15 16:10:00 - [17] Originally by: Mudkest those get into warp tests, is that on test server with the updated stabs, or on life? I mean if it's on life with fibres giving more agil bonus then stabs it doesnt really come to me as a big surprise that fibres are better for agility ;) if its on test server with reduced mass from stabs then its pretty sucky :/ This is TQ. Have they already implemented the mass reduction on SiSi? Guess I should go and test it out then. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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