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Should Pluto be considered a planet?

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Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.14 16:30:00 - [1] Pluto Decision I'm in the camp who says no, it should not be considered a planet based in its orbit. I think a new classification has to be detailed to correctly name Kuiper belt objects, as we will undoubtedly find more of them, and some may even behave more like planets... So this has to be nipped in the bud, or we could go from 8 planets to 100 planets in like 5 years... I'm not against ICE planets, but I believe Pluto's out of plane & elliptical Neptune crossing orbit is an indication that it's not a planet IMO. ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
DgO4 CALDARI NAVY 'Wolf Pack' 5th Squadron Storm Armada	Posted - 2006.08.14 16:33:00 - [2] Aparently its just a massive ball (sorta, not completely spherical) of ice which kinda tagged onto the solar system. I say get Chribba to mine it...oh wait its not veld!
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.14 16:38:00 - [3] Originally by: DgO4 Aparently its just a massive ball (sorta, not completely spherical) of ice which kinda tagged onto the solar system. I say get Chribba to mine it...oh wait its not veld! It has it's own "moon" Charon though... I'm not sure how much Charon makes Pluto wobble along the elliptical... (so more like a companion Kuiper belt object I guess) It's probably just a chuck of Pluto that got blasted off in a collision... But that I think is an argument some use to say it is indeed a Planet... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.08.14 17:41:00 - [4] There's objects larger than Pluto, in similar orbits, which we don't want to classify as planets. Ergo, we don't want to classify Pluto as a planet. If we'd only just discovered it, this wouldn't even be a discussion; we would KNOW it's not a planet. It's only because people in 1930 didn't know, and were expecting to find a planet, that they assumed they had done. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.14 17:53:00 - [5] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr There's objects larger than Pluto, in similar orbits, which we don't want to classify as planets. Ergo, we don't want to classify Pluto as a planet. If we'd only just discovered it, this wouldn't even be a discussion; we would KNOW it's not a planet. It's only because people in 1930 didn't know, and were expecting to find a planet, that they assumed they had done. So true, yet many astronomers are arguing to keep it at planet status... In fact, astronomers seem to be divided on the subject... Can't believe so many of then are in favor of the planet classification... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Clementina God's of Eve	Posted - 2006.08.14 18:08:00 - [6] Honestly, I think anything that is round due to its gravity and orbits a star should be a planet. I like the solution by which they make up several qualifications for a planet. For Instance a Gaian Planet would be a planet made up mostly of rock and iron. a Jovian Planet would be a planet made up mostly of hydrogen or methane, and a Plutonian Planet would be a planet that is made up of ice and lives in a Kuniper belt.
Ithuriel Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.14 20:02:00 - [7] So if Pluto is a planet, then the next larger rock out from it will have to be one too. I'm not living in a solar system whose 10th planet is named "Xena", so Pluto has to go. Thanks a lot Michael Brown, you ***** **head, nice name.
Kollgorholl Gallente Draconis Navitas Aeterna Pure.	Posted - 2006.08.14 20:12:00 - [8] Originally by: Bhaal It has it's own "moon" Charon though... I'm not sure how much Charon makes Pluto wobble along the elliptical... (so more like a companion Kuiper belt object I guess) It's probably just a chunck of Pluto that got blasted off in a collision... But that I think is an argument some use to say it is indeed a Planet... Charon is not a moon, It does not orbit Pluto, rather Charon and Pluto orbit one another around a central point in between the two objects. Charon just gets called a moon cause its the smaller of the two. I personally think Pluto should be left as a planet but purely for sentimental reasons, all other objects can be classified as kuiper belt objects, but Pluto should remain the icy world whirling around the sun on its crazy off plane elliptical orbit.
Yello1	Posted - 2006.08.14 20:20:00 - [9] Tradition!!!!!!!!! Yes, it should be classed as a planet. Even if subsequent ones of like size are not considered such. Tevya would have it no other way. (Id link a pic of Fiddler on the Roof here, but thats not allowed right??) Yes, Im THAT Yello1
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.08.14 20:55:00 - [10] Originally by: Kollgorholl Charon is not a moon, It does not orbit Pluto, rather Charon and Pluto orbit one another around a central point in between the two objects. Charon just gets called a moon cause its the smaller of the two. And, quoting but changing the location: Originally by: Kollgorholl The Moon is not a moon, It does not orbit Earth, rather the Moon and Earth orbit one another around a central point in between the two objects. The Moon just gets called a moon cause its the smaller of the two. I think we can knock that idea on the head now. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Meridius Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.14 21:11:00 - [11] They need to set up rules for what a planet should be. Personally i think it should be based on size and distance from the star. It would solve the problem with Pluto since the kuiper belt objects that are larger are too far to meet the criteria for being a planet. - _____
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.08.14 21:15:00 - [12] Originally by: Meridius They need to set up rules for what a planet should be. Personally i think it should be based on size and distance from the star. It would solve the problem with Pluto since the kuiper belt objects that are larger are too far to meet the criteria for being a planet. It'd only solve the problem until we find a Jupiter-sized planet further away from its star than Pluto is from ours; or a Pluto-sized object in a position akin to Mercury; or .... It's got to be something more basic than that. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.14 21:23:00 - [13] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Meridius They need to set up rules for what a planet should be. Personally i think it should be based on size and distance from the star. It would solve the problem with Pluto since the kuiper belt objects that are larger are too far to meet the criteria for being a planet. It'd only solve the problem until we find a Jupiter-sized planet further away from its star than Pluto is from ours; or a Pluto-sized object in a position akin to Mercury; or .... It's got to be something more basic than that. EXACTLY! We have to think outside of our solar system, as we will be discovering Earth like planets in the coming decades, etc... Which means many many solar systems we will be cataloging. It has to be a very fundamental set of criteria that can be used across vastly different solar systems... They have to get this done soon, and come up with something that makes sense... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Sirkill	Posted - 2006.08.14 22:13:00 - [14] Keep pluto for traditions sake, sod the rest of the buggers.
Reiisha Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2006.08.15 09:43:00 - [15] Originally by: Sirkill Keep pluto for traditions sake, sod the rest of the buggers. Indeed. Cut the crap on discussing this, keep Pluto on planet status and just have everything else be a Kuiper belt object, or whatever. Pluto has been a planet for too long to just say "hey, it's not anymore!". It's how 99.9999% of the world perceievs the solar system - it has 9 planets. Keep it that way.
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.15 10:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Reiisha Originally by: Sirkill Keep pluto for traditions sake, sod the rest of the buggers. Indeed. Cut the crap on discussing this, keep Pluto on planet status and just have everything else be a Kuiper belt object, or whatever. Pluto has been a planet for too long to just say "hey, it's not anymore!". It's how 99.9999% of the world perceievs the solar system - it has 9 planets. Keep it that way. And over time as the ppl who learned that Pluto was a planet will die off and the newer generations comming up will all laugh at us for thinking it was a planet... I hope they make the right decision and yank Pluto's planetary status... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Peter McGregor	Posted - 2006.08.15 11:44:00 - [17] Pluto's status hasn't been changed YEARS ago for one reason only. The reason is... USA. No, really. It's the only planet discovered by an American, so obviously many astronomers from that country are unwilling to have the status changed. They managed to avoid/dismiss the topic for years but now they can't - because of Xena (yeah, that sucks too). I don't think Pluto should be considered a planet. NOT because it was discovered by Americans, I couldn't care less who discovered the damned rock, but it's nothing like other planets. It's size and mass are those of a planetoid, it's weird orbit suggests clearly that the body has been "trapped" by the gravity of the system eons ago - and that Pluto wasn't formed the same way other planets were.
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.08.15 12:24:00 - [18] Originally by: Reiisha Pluto has been a planet for too long to just say "hey, it's not anymore!". It's how 99.9999% of the world perceievs the solar system - it has 9 planets. Keep it that way. By the same argument, lime, salt and phlogiston are all elements, and the earth is the centre of the universe. Definitions change, when new facts demonstrate the old definitions to be silly ones. It is, by now, patently silly to call Pluto a planet. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.15 12:27:00 - [19] Originally by: Peter McGregor Pluto's status hasn't been changed YEARS ago for one reason only. The reason is... USA. No, really. It's the only planet discovered by an American, so obviously many astronomers from that country are unwilling to have the status changed. They managed to avoid/dismiss the topic for years but now they can't - because of Xena (yeah, that sucks too). I don't think Pluto should be considered a planet. NOT because it was discovered by Americans, I couldn't care less who discovered the damned rock, but it's nothing like other planets. It's size and mass are those of a planetoid, it's weird orbit suggests clearly that the body has been "trapped" by the gravity of the system eons ago - and that Pluto wasn't formed the same way other planets were. Sure, blame it on us Americans, we cause all of the problems... Well, this American believes Pluto is not a planet, could care less who discovered it... Politics & national pride should have nothing to do with decisions such as these IMO. America was very late in the Astronomy game cause we're only 230 years old, a youngin compared to the rest of you "guys" ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Krandor87 Gallente Ore Mongers Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:06:00 - [20] Both Pluto and Xena have an atmosphere. therefore they should be planets and as for orbit all orbits are eliptical so the fact that Pluto can be closer than Neptune means nothing. --------------------------------------- Whats a sig good for?
Ithuriel Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:17:00 - [21] The only person who benefits from the deplanetization (word?) of Pluto is Goofy. With the devaluation of Pluto, Goofy will be unchallenged as the preeminent canine of the Disney empire. I sense kickback money. I for one will not let decisions of astronomical proportions be handled by a dog who wears suspenders.
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:21:00 - [22] Originally by: Krandor87 Both Pluto and Xena have an atmosphere. therefore they should be planets and as for orbit all orbits are eliptical so the fact that Pluto can be closer than Neptune means nothing. Titan has an atmosphere, therefore it should be a planet. And if you're going to argue that Titan is eliminated because it orbits another planet: Halley's Comet has an atmosphere, therefore it should be a planet. Try again. These things are never as easy as you think. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Kurren Farscape Mining	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:23:00 - [23] Why exactly is this debate important? I would rather start concidering those larger objects as planets instead of canceling planets out. That just seems silly to me. In my opinion, no good will come from canceling Pluto's planet status. No bad will come from it either. It's just... there. No matter what we call it... it's there. All canceling Pluto's status will do is ** off a few people at his country club, he'll have to give his insignia jacket back, and now he'll have to start paying taxes. --- --- --- --- SobaKai.com**
Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:23:00 - [24] I'd just like to point out that, if Xena will indeed be classified as the tenth planet, it will not be named Xena. That is just the nickname given to it by the man who found it... Currently, the most likely name for Xena will be Persephone. Personally, if Xena would have been the official name of our tenth planet, I'd have resigned from the human race in disgust.
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:25:00 - [25] Originally by: Kurren Why exactly is this debate important? I would rather start concidering those larger objects as planets instead of canceling planets out. That just seems silly to me. In my opinion, no good will come from canceling Pluto's planet status. No bad will come from it either. It's just... there. No matter what we call it... it's there. All canceling Pluto's status will do is **** off a few people at his country club, he'll have to give his insignia jacket back, and now he'll have to start paying taxes. Because it's not just a matter of the size of the celestial body... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:25:00 - [26] Originally by: Kurren Why exactly is this debate important? I would rather start concidering those larger objects as planets instead of canceling planets out A valid opinion. The problem with it is that we'll wind up with a solar system of several thousand planets, because it seems extremely likely that Pluto and Xena are not, by any stretch, the largest objects out there. Maybe a system of several thousand planets is fine. Personally, I don't think so. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Buxaroo Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.08.15 16:37:00 - [27] Edited by: Buxaroo on 15/08/2006 16:39:43 From a realistic point of view it doesn't really matter if it is a planet or a kuiper belt entity. But from a more asthetic point of view I beleive it should be removed from the planet pantheon. Even when I was younger and learned of it's irregular orbit, I knew something was not right. I then read about the Kuiper belt and what lays inside it. Even though it was not really discussed at the time, I thought of Pluto as a captured comet or errant asteroid that got caught. It makes perfect sense to me to name it a Kuiper belt object. Although I am inclined to keep it as is out of old times sake like one of the posters said above. But the latent scientist in me wants to name it what it trully is: captured comet/asteroid of the Kuiper belt.
Da'Neth Gallente Deadly Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.15 17:31:00 - [28] Edited by: Da''Neth on 15/08/2006 17:31:32 I will hold my judgment on Pluto till the NASA mission get there in 2015. As it is now even with all the hi-tech telescopes we canÆt even get a clear picture of what Pluto looks like. Hubble pic New Horizons misson to Pluto --- join the DA click above
kessah Caldari Blood Corsairs	Posted - 2006.08.16 02:17:00 - [29] Edited by: kessah on 16/08/2006 02:19:05 Hmmm tough one there. Whatever the classification for what is a planet and whats basicially space debris, i do think size and distance from the star relative to the distance between the closer planets should play a role. Perhaps the longest distance bewtween two planets in our solar could be the cut off point? not including pluto tho I mean pluto is just a giant ice rock, any time i watch a documentary telly show they go through all the other planets upto neptune in detail then skip pluto. Then again is mercury much different? other than it being made from mostly from iron. Perhaps the celestial body's structure should play a role? common materials such as methane ice.. hmmmm Pluto does have more than one moon, the other two of note called nyx and hydra. I personally vote that it should stay a planet but only on the merit of it being taught to children as being the 9th planet for over 75 years. Sort of an 'horourary planet' btw aint trying to be a smartass there i did read up on it in my Universe book \o/ cough nerd cough -------------------------------------------------------- Forever Pirate
Dr Happy	Posted - 2006.08.16 03:06:00 - [30] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Krandor87 Both Pluto and Xena have an atmosphere. therefore they should be planets and as for orbit all orbits are eliptical so the fact that Pluto can be closer than Neptune means nothing. Titan has an atmosphere, therefore it should be a planet. And if you're going to argue that Titan is eliminated because it orbits another planet: Halley's Comet has an atmosphere, therefore it should be a planet. Try again. These things are never as easy as you think. yes but titan is orbiting an object other then are sun eer well has an object exerting it's primary gravitational pull
Xelios Minmatar Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.08.16 03:15:00 - [31] Yes, because it's been called a planet for so long that even if it ends up not fitting the definition we should all still call it a planet because of it's cool name. And in related matters, "Planemos" is a profoundly stupid word. Shame on NASA for coining such an astrocity. The new BFG.
Jon Engel APEX Unlimited Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.08.16 05:53:00 - [32] Id rather a lively debate on how to turn Jupiter into a small star so we can colonize the moons, but. Who realy cares what they call it. Id argue against calling Phobos and Deimos moons, but they are called Moons, despite them being rogue asteroids that got caught in Mars' Orbit. Anyhow, whats in classification anyhow? Its not like it matters to us here. Till we start spreading out amongst the stars theres no real reason to get classification of celestial bodies down to a patent. Who says where gonna make it past this global warming fiasco anyhow.
Harkwyth Mist Caldari The Black Ops	Posted - 2006.08.16 07:47:00 - [33] guys i'm reading this at 8am and as far as i'm concerned its waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to early for this. besides who cares in a few million years the sun will expand evelop,.. envelup,... absorb the planet and we'll all die anyway Harkwyth its to early for cheery views Harkwyth Designs: Personalized Sigature Design
Peter McGregor	Posted - 2006.08.16 08:06:00 - [34] Edited by: Peter McGregor on 16/08/2006 08:07:03 Originally by: Bhaal Sure, blame it on us Americans, we cause all of the problems... America was very late in the Astronomy game cause we're only 230 years old, a youngin compared to the rest of you "guys". But I don't care who discovers what, as long as it's cataloged properly... Dear Bhaal, you misunderstood my intentions. I wasn't trying to bash Americans or anyone else (maybe except Pluto and Xena ;) ). I was just stating the fact - American astronomers have been blocking the demotion of Pluto for years. I'm not judging that at all, simply stating the fact. And I apologise if I offended you or any other American - it wasn't my intention.
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.08.16 08:38:00 - [35] Originally by: Dr Happy Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Krandor87 Both Pluto and Xena have an atmosphere. therefore they should be planets and as for orbit all orbits are eliptical so the fact that Pluto can be closer than Neptune means nothing. Titan has an atmosphere, therefore it should be a planet. And if you're going to argue that Titan is eliminated because it orbits another planet: Halley's Comet has an atmosphere, therefore it should be a planet. Try again. These things are never as easy as you think. yes but titan is orbiting an object other then are sun eer well has an object exerting it's primary gravitational pull You didn't read the last three-quarters of my post, did you? If you're going to argue that Titan is eliminated because it orbits another planet, fine, but you can't apply that to Halley's Comet. Kurren argues that Halley's Comet doesn't orbit anything, which is both false, and ridiculous. If it wasn't in orbit, it would've passed through the solar system once and vanished for ever more. It's a small, icy body with an atmosphere and a highly elliptical orbit. What was Pluto again? ....oh yes ... it's a small, icy body with an atmosphere and a highly elliptical orbit. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.16 10:15:00 - [36] Pluto Proposal I certainly hope this doesn't pass... I don't agree with it at all... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Peter McGregor	Posted - 2006.08.16 11:47:00 - [37] Originally by: Bhaal Pluto Proposal I certainly hope this doesn't pass... I don't agree with it at all... A few well aimed Citadel Torpedoes should do the trick. Too bad that the Solar system is unreachable from EVE star cluster :(
Velsharoon Gallente Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains	Posted - 2006.08.16 12:16:00 - [38] Originally by: Bhaal Pluto Proposal I certainly hope this doesn't pass... I don't agree with it at all... Yeh i feel the same way :/ your gonna end up with systems with hundreds of planets, but then again is that an intrinsically bad thing or just us going onoes
Norvys Kerens Gallente Terror Knights	Posted - 2006.08.16 12:23:00 - [39] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Kollgorholl Charon is not a moon, It does not orbit Pluto, rather Charon and Pluto orbit one another around a central point in between the two objects. Charon just gets called a moon cause its the smaller of the two. And, quoting but changing the location: Originally by: Kollgorholl The Moon is not a moon, It does not orbit Earth, rather the Moon and Earth orbit one another around a central point in between the two objects. The Moon just gets called a moon cause its the smaller of the two. I think we can knock that idea on the head now. You're wrong: "Charon has been a part of the controversy over Pluto's status as a planet. Under the latest proposal, which will be decided on August 24, 2006, the International Astronomical Union may classify Charon as a pluton, officially making Charon a planet. Under this proposal, Charon would be considered a binary planet with Pluto since the two orbit each other around a center of mass that is outside either body" This is not a situation shared by the Earth and the Moon, the is no external gravitational point in between the Earth and our moon there is gravity generated by the moon and gravity generated by Earth. ______________________________________ Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster. And if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes into you.
Wild Rho Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.08.16 12:25:00 - [40] Edited by: Wild Rho on 16/08/2006 12:27:18 Originally by: Velsharoon Yeh i feel the same way :/ your gonna end up with systems with hundreds of planets, but then again is that an intrinsically bad thing or just us going onoes That's what I was wondering. Why exactly do people think the solar system "suddenly" having more planets is such a bad thing exactly? It's like some people are scared to update the model of our solar system. WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your ass will be laminated. - Jennie Marlboro
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.16 12:36:00 - [41] I mean, Ceres becoming a planet as well is just a joke... A planet should be defined on the basis in which it was formed, not based on any arbitrary size, shape, gravitational pull at it's surface, distance from the star, etc... A Planet to me, is a celestial body which formed from the accretion disk, has/had a molten core, formed layers and cooled all the while orbiting the parent star. Ceres is left over junk that did not make it into a planet's formation, it's NOT a planet. Pluto is a large chunk of ICE, and oversized comet that was knocked into orbit about the sun, and it took a few other chunks of ICE with it, or those chunks of ICE were from a subsequent collision. (Charon & company) I don't believe ICE is part of the accretion disk (could be wrong), so calling these things Kuiper belt objects or Plutons is fine with me. Calling them planets is NOT! If Pluto did indeed form like the other planets, and was knocked into itÆs irregular orbit by a collision, then yes, itÆs a planetà ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
kessah Caldari Blood Corsairs	Posted - 2006.08.16 14:20:00 - [42] Originally by: Bhaal I mean, Ceres becoming a planet as well is just a joke... A planet should be defined on the basis in which it was formed, not based on any arbitrary size, shape, gravitational pull at it's surface, distance from the star, etc... A Planet to me, is a celestial body which formed from the accretion disk, has/had a molten core, formed layers and cooled all the while orbiting the parent star. Ceres is left over junk that did not make it into a planet's formation, it's NOT a planet. Pluto is a large chunk of ICE, and oversized comet that was knocked into orbit about the sun, and it took a few other chunks of ICE with it, or those chunks of ICE were from a subsequent collision. (Charon & company) I don't believe ICE is part of the accretion disk (could be wrong), so calling these things Kuiper belt objects or Plutons is fine with me. Calling them planets is NOT! If Pluto did indeed form like the other planets, and was knocked into itÆs irregular orbit by a collision, then yes, itÆs a planetà i agree with that, sounds like a good rule of thumb. -------------------------------------------------------- Forever Pirate
Zaldiri Caldari Automated Industries	Posted - 2006.08.16 15:47:00 - [43] The real question is: why are people getting sent to a massive expensive conference to debate a question which has absolutly no impact on anything? ----------------------------------------------- Admiral of King Frieza's Super Saiyan fleet.
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.16 16:54:00 - [44] Edited by: Bhaal on 16/08/2006 16:56:19 Originally by: Zaldiri The real question is: why are people getting sent to a massive expensive conference to debate a question which has absolutly no impact on anything? Well, in the near future we will be discovering many more planets, and also being able to detect every planet in those solar systems, as opposed to just the gas giants... I think this needs to be cleaned up before we start cataloging & classifying those objects... I guess if you're not interested, it does not affect you in any way... Besides, no matter what your field of study or job is, there are massive expensive conferences all over the damn place that affect you less than this one... I wish I could be at that conference to hear the arguments... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
PKlavins Caldari 3rdlane Industries	Posted - 2006.08.16 18:01:00 - [45] right...opinion time... personally i dont think pluto should be a planet. but if they are considering making pluto and charon 'binary planets' wat does it make the other moons of pluto? as for 'xena', once they change that horrific name, sure it can be a planet, its bigger than pluto for one thing. this is very interesting indeed...the outcome of this will most likely change our perception of the solar system greatly... I make sigs/banners 5mill each, convo/evemail for details
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.08.16 20:27:00 - [46] Originally by: Bhaal Pluto Proposal I certainly hope this doesn't pass... I don't agree with it at all... To be honest I don't think it's any bad thing. Pluto and its ilk will officially be "plutons" which will be a class of planets. Within a few decades, nobody will even consider plutons to be planets, they'll be two different classes of objects. The number of planets will be fixed at eight - permanently unless there's one half a light year out that remains to be discovered. Incidentally, you mentioned molten cores. You do know that'd rule out Mars? ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.08.16 20:28:00 - [47] Originally by: Norvys Kerens Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Kollgorholl Charon is not a moon, It does not orbit Pluto, rather Charon and Pluto orbit one another around a central point in between the two objects. Charon just gets called a moon cause its the smaller of the two. And, quoting but changing the location: Originally by: Kollgorholl The Moon is not a moon, It does not orbit Earth, rather the Moon and Earth orbit one another around a central point in between the two objects. The Moon just gets called a moon cause its the smaller of the two. I think we can knock that idea on the head now. You're wrong: "Charon has been a part of the controversy over Pluto's status as a planet. Under the latest proposal, which will be decided on August 24, 2006, the International Astronomical Union may classify Charon as a pluton, officially making Charon a planet. Under this proposal, Charon would be considered a binary planet with Pluto since the two orbit each other around a center of mass that is outside either body" This is not a situation shared by the Earth and the Moon, the is no external gravitational point in between the Earth and our moon there is gravity generated by the moon and gravity generated by Earth. Please note that August 26th hasn't happened yet. I won't be wrong until it does, and if this change goes through, I won't be quoting the above any more anyway because it won't be true any more. At THIS POINT, what I said is true. Both Earth-Moon and Pluto-Charon are pairs of objects which revolve about their mutual centre of gravity, and that point is a hell of a lot further from the centre of Earth than it is from the centre of Pluto. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Kurren Farscape Mining	Posted - 2006.08.16 20:28:00 - [48] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Dr Happy Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Krandor87 Both Pluto and Xena have an atmosphere. therefore they should be planets and as for orbit all orbits are eliptical so the fact that Pluto can be closer than Neptune means nothing. Titan has an atmosphere, therefore it should be a planet. And if you're going to argue that Titan is eliminated because it orbits another planet: Halley's Comet has an atmosphere, therefore it should be a planet. Try again. These things are never as easy as you think. yes but titan is orbiting an object other then are sun eer well has an object exerting it's primary gravitational pull You didn't read the last three-quarters of my post, did you? If you're going to argue that Titan is eliminated because it orbits another planet, fine, but you can't apply that to Halley's Comet. Kurren argues that Halley's Comet doesn't orbit anything, which is both false, and ridiculous. If it wasn't in orbit, it would've passed through the solar system once and vanished for ever more. It's a small, icy body with an atmosphere and a highly elliptical orbit. What was Pluto again? ....oh yes ... it's a small, icy body with an atmosphere and a highly elliptical orbit. Yes, but Pluto orbits our sun. Hailey's Comet passes through our solar system once every few years. There is a difference (or maybe the name calling decided to get in the way of noticing that). Yes, Hailey's Comet has an orbit. What does it orbit? Nothing in particular. The galaxy... a few solar systems... it has no real celestial object that it calls home. Pluto has our sun. HoI'm not quite sure why that point was deemed rediculous... unless you think I was implying that there's a giant hand holding Hailey's Comet's yoyo string. --- --- --- --- SobaKai.com
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.16 20:46:00 - [49] Edited by: Bhaal on 16/08/2006 20:46:56 Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Bhaal Pluto Proposal I certainly hope this doesn't pass... I don't agree with it at all... To be honest I don't think it's any bad thing. Pluto and its ilk will officially be "plutons" which will be a class of planets. Within a few decades, nobody will even consider plutons to be planets, they'll be two different classes of objects. The number of planets will be fixed at eight - permanently unless there's one half a light year out that remains to be discovered. Incidentally, you mentioned molten cores. You do know that'd rule out Mars? Mars had a molten core at some point in it's history, that's what I meant... Plutons is fine with me, but they should not be a class of planet, instead should be a class of celestial body... A step or two below planets IMO... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.08.16 20:59:00 - [50] Originally by: Bhaal Plutons is fine with me, but they should not be a class of planet, instead should be a class of celestial body... A step or two below planets IMO... Totally agree. My point is that, within a few years, that will effectively be the case. Plutons will not be considered equal with planets for very long. Even officially, I just don't see that holding water. Give it half a century and they'll put it right. It'd be nice if they'd got it right in the first place, but I'll settle for this. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.08.16 21:01:00 - [51] Originally by: Kurren Yes, but Pluto orbits our sun. Hailey's Comet passes through our solar system once every few years. There is a difference (or maybe the name calling decided to get in the way of noticing that). Yes, Hailey's Comet has an orbit. What does it orbit? Nothing in particular. The galaxy... a few solar systems... it has no real celestial object that it calls home. Pluto has our sun. HoI'm not quite sure why that point was deemed rediculous... unless you think I was implying that there's a giant hand holding Hailey's Comet's yoyo string. No, it was deemed ridiculous because Halley's Comet orbits the Sun, and you are completely and utterly wrong. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.16 21:07:00 - [52] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Bhaal Plutons is fine with me, but they should not be a class of planet, instead should be a class of celestial body... A step or two below planets IMO... Totally agree. My point is that, within a few years, that will effectively be the case. Plutons will not be considered equal with planets for very long. Even officially, I just don't see that holding water. Give it half a century and they'll put it right. It'd be nice if they got it right in the first place, but I'll settle for this. Probably right, but I'd just like to see them get it right this time, because if they go that direction, you'll have some ppl saying we have 100 planets in our solar system, and then the arguments that Plutons & large asteriods are not true planets, blah blah blah for the next 50 years... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Lord Aradon Caldari Dark Assassins	Posted - 2006.08.17 07:48:00 - [53] It's a planet because it's planetoid in shape, has a moon, follows a strict (if dodgy orbit) around the sun, and is not part of a belt The latest news should have all you guys up in arms, the scientists now plan on expanding the solar system by another 2 "planets" after finding 2 blocks of ice smaller than pluto ---- Corp Websites\|My Gallery - Imaran
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.08.17 09:35:00 - [54] Originally by: Lord Aradon It's a planet because it's planetoid in shape, has a moon, follows a strict (if dodgy orbit) around the sun, and is not part of a belt It's part of the Kuiper belt. It wasn't clearly so at the time, because (1) they were expecting to find a planet and assumed it to be roughly the size of Neptune, and (2) they didn't even know the Kuiper belt existed. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Uther Doull Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.17 11:16:00 - [55] Edited by: Uther Doull on 17/08/2006 11:23:45 actually i think the proposed definition that an object is a planet if it has enough mass to be spherical is a good one. (and orbits a star obviously however i agree that we should draw a line somewhere and stop 'adding' planets to our solarsystem just say anything farther out then say pluto or neptune is not a significant part of our solar system. they may class as a planet, but just don't count them being part of our system
Uther Doull Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.17 11:23:00 - [56] Edited by: Uther Doull on 17/08/2006 11:23:17 double post
Buxaroo Black Dwarf	Posted - 2006.08.17 13:43:00 - [57] Originally by: Bhaal I mean, Ceres becoming a planet as well is just a joke... A planet should be defined on the basis in which it was formed, not based on any arbitrary size, shape, gravitational pull at it's surface, distance from the star, etc... A Planet to me, is a celestial body which formed from the accretion disk, has/had a molten core, formed layers and cooled all the while orbiting the parent star. Ceres is left over junk that did not make it into a planet's formation, it's NOT a planet. Pluto is a large chunk of ICE, and oversized comet that was knocked into orbit about the sun, and it took a few other chunks of ICE with it, or those chunks of ICE were from a subsequent collision. (Charon & company) I don't believe ICE is part of the accretion disk (could be wrong), so calling these things Kuiper belt objects or Plutons is fine with me. Calling them planets is NOT! If Pluto did indeed form like the other planets, and was knocked into itÆs irregular orbit by a collision, then yes, itÆs a planetà Agreed. Like I said earlier, to me Pluto is nothing more than a comet that got stuck in a semi-normal orbit about the sun.

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