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Hengle Teron
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
2593
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Posted - 2014.10.21 12:32:00 -
[121] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Solecist Project wrote:This just doesn't make sense!
Given any number of people, there must be a smaller number of people who would run them, yet nobody does that. It just makes no sense to me.
Hell, I'm no fan of PvE either but I acknowledge the fact that people exist who run it. How can it be that of thousands of people, nobody does them?
Because it lights up the PvE counter and people will come and drop onto them? I understand that it's no fun, but how is it possible that SO many people share the same opinion??
I just don't get it! :O I think the problem is that there is a fundamental fact about ratting/missioning/anomolies - it is all really, really dull. If it was in-and-of-itself fun and interesting, it would get people run it for its own sake (think people in other games who quest for the stories, or raid for the challenges). EvE PVE has neither of those qualities - the stories are tepid and you are repeating them (literally, not just figuratively in the "loot 10 boar tusks" sense) several times a day, and any challenge it might have had is broken down and clearly documented to be no challenge at all (unless you make your own challenge like I've seen Jenn mention in the past). Therefore, in the absence of challenge or story, all you have is isk, which means you have two types of regular "consumers"; those of us who do the bare minimum to get the isk they need so they can run off and pvp, and those who play the game to see their bank balance increase (or to level up their Raven), neither of which want any more out of the experience than raw efficiency, and that's the point where nullsec anomolies trip over, since its not rawly (is that a word) efficient for either the "quick couple of hours without interruption" (because of the potential for interruption) or "putting a blingy at risk" (because of the blingy being at risk) crowds. Grab a thrasher and go run an anomaly... its fun struggling to survive |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8637
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Posted - 2014.10.21 12:44:00 -
[122] - Quote
Hengle Teron wrote: Grab a thrasher and go run an anomaly... its fun struggling to survive
Sure it can be, but anoms (like all combat pve) are for isk making, doing them in a thrasher is like doing a lvl 4 mission in an assault frig, fun for a few minutes till you realize that the more time you spend struggling like this for the sake of 'fun', making pitiful isk, the longer it takes you to earn the isk needed for other MORE fun things (like buying a black ops battleship to use with your friends in low sec or buying a stratios for exploring for example). Opportunity cost.
To each his own of course. |
Prince Kobol
2319
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Posted - 2014.10.21 12:58:00 -
[123] - Quote
Here is the thing, when it comes to PvE content, Eve differs from most other games in so far as PvE primary goal is to earn isk.
In other games, such your WoW's, Rift, SWTOR, Lotro etc.. you do not PvE just to earn in game currency, in fact in many of these games how much gold, credits or whatever becomes less of an issue as you progress further into the game, you grind because you want to level up an item, acquire an item, progress a storyline, unlock x.. not to earn money.
In Eve you PvE primarily to earn isk and the bigger the ship, the more isk you need. If you want a Super you will usually want a sitter pilot to go with it and you will usually want to plex your accounts which means earning even more isk.
Also Eve is a game where having an alt, whether it be station trading, recon, booster pilot is very useful so it requires earning more isk to plex those alts.
This has made PvE in a min/max profession.
That means people will do research to see what method earns them the most isk and since PvE is so mind numbing bad, they will want to do as little as possible.
It will only take a small amount of time for most people to release that grinding level 4 missions is the best option for them.
It is very easy to do, doesn't take an expensive ship, doesn't require many skill points and probably exposes them to the least amount of risk.
After this you have HS Incursions and Level 5 missions.
(just to add yes their are exceptions but I think it is safe to say that majority play this way)
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Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
11121
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Posted - 2014.10.21 13:10:00 -
[124] - Quote
Great posts!
Will take me a while to read through! Also I want to apologise for redundant questions, but it's actually not that easy to keep up. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, with sparkles of cinnamon on my skin. You are my content, my shiny content - you make me haaappy, when skies are greeeeyyy - you'll never know dear, how much I loooooove you - don't you take my content away! |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2716
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Posted - 2014.10.21 13:14:00 -
[125] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:This just doesn't make sense!
Given any number of people, there must be a smaller number of people who would run them, yet nobody does that. It just makes no sense to me.
Hell, I'm no fan of PvE either but I acknowledge the fact that people exist who run it. How can it be that of thousands of people, nobody does them?
Because it lights up the PvE counter and people will come and drop onto them? I understand that it's no fun, but how is it possible that SO many people share the same opinion??
I just don't get it! :O
No there are other more entertaining and profitable things to do like exploration, stuff with theta, marketeering, highsec isk making alt, etc. For example I spend most of my time in highsec shooting idiots who haul way to much isk in untanked t1 industrials. Its essentially PVE, its fun, and I make far more than I ever would running sites. I also get goods to continue playing the market back in dek from it too.
If I spent that time running the crappy anomalies you are insisting are worth it I would have considerably less isk, used more time, had no fun, and less things to continue doing other activities.
We're intrinsically lazy and would love it if a bunch of pubbies would fleet up to come shoot at us. It means we wouldn't have to travel to get any fights. The problem is pubbies are far to risk averse to actually do anything. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133 |
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
53
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Posted - 2014.10.21 13:18:00 -
[126] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:Because you cannot comprehend what has been posted in this thread: 1) They're too low on income and even at maximum upgrades they cannot support more than a few pilots in space 2) They're extremely easy intel for other groups to come and camp the system for no income at all, see 1) 3) 90% of the sites are garbage, see 1) 4) Shooting crosses is boring I guess that sums it up nicely. Do you have first hand experience? Thanks! Yes, I do, thanks for asking. I was playing as a carebear since 2007 and then amended my ways and turned that useless toon into a bag of meat like the idiot I was and went to PvP as I find it more fun.
Aren-Št you the same guyy who defended ISBoxing tooth and nail and by the look of things it does not seem like you use that ISBoxing of yours for pvp. Oh and what pvp? Sitting in a blob of 500+ and pressing F1 type of "pvp"? |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
11121
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Posted - 2014.10.21 13:25:00 -
[127] - Quote
Reported the post above for trolling, aka trying to get hatefull responses to a provoking post. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, with sparkles of cinnamon on my skin. You are my content, my shiny content - you make me haaappy, when skies are greeeeyyy - you'll never know dear, how much I loooooove you - don't you take my content away! |
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3438
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Posted - 2014.10.21 17:14:54 -
[128] - Quote
Removed some off topic posts.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
452
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Posted - 2014.10.21 17:18:52 -
[129] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:No I mean ... do you have first hand experience in the space we're talking about.
Edit: She has. ^_^
We were so close in stopping you when you got greedy on a wreck with ceptors on field.
Sadly, no kill for us. |
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
142
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Posted - 2014.10.21 20:25:37 -
[130] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:This just doesn't make sense!
Given any number of people, there must be a smaller number of people who would run them, yet nobody does that. It just makes no sense to me.
Hell, I'm no fan of PvE either but I acknowledge the fact that people exist who run it. How can it be that of thousands of people, nobody does them?
Because it lights up the PvE counter and people will come and drop onto them? I understand that it's no fun, but how is it possible that SO many people share the same opinion??
I just don't get it! :O People do run them.
You seem to be looking for groups of people that sit there grinding anoms continuously for hours every day. That's the part that doesn't really happen, at least not outside of renters or multiboxed carriers. People who spend that much time generating ISK from PvE activities generally have dedicated alts, often outside the coalition, for doing so. As others have said, there's much better ways.
Anoms are something I undock for to get some quick liquid ISK when I have nothing better to do. Maybe I log in while drinking my morning coffee, run one anom, then go to work. Or rat with one character while I run around looking for engageable targets with the other, or out in a TiDi fleet.
If people did not run them at all, the system's military index would be at 0 and there would be only one or two anoms in system. But military 5 and the presence of 20+ anoms does not mean you should expect to find 10 people there actively doing PvE content at all times. The income per hour would have to about double to get some of the ISK making alts from elsewhere to move back to null, but that would break the faucet game.
Here is how this ties so closely into renting.
There is member income, corporation income, and alliance income.
The Alliance needs income to pay for sov bills, upgrades and SRP.
The majority of null space is crap value to the line member. These are combat focused pilots here to take and defend space. The income they can make here in downtime, using those skills, sucks compared to the rest of eve. So a substantial part of line member income ends up in the form of alts and is not effectively taxable by the corp or alliance.
The value of the space comes from the natural resources. So the most valuable ones (moons) get taken by the alliance to pay for these expenses. The space deemed useless to line members is then rented to people willing to pay for it as a further source of income, because why not?
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Ms Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
52
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Posted - 2014.10.21 23:41:48 -
[131] - Quote
Ka'Narlist wrote:M If you perma camp all the good ratting systems in a region and have the ability to drop on targets that rat anyways you can be a huge pain in the ass.
Precisely the reason I don't believe any sov changes can be based on residency, industry indicies and so on. It's just too easy to shut a system down with a few cloaky hot-droppers.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2717
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Posted - 2014.10.21 23:50:58 -
[132] - Quote
Ms Forum Alt wrote:Ka'Narlist wrote:M If you perma camp all the good ratting systems in a region and have the ability to drop on targets that rat anyways you can be a huge pain in the ass.
Precisely the reason I don't believe any sov changes can be based on residency, industry indicies and so on. It's just too easy to shut a system down with a few cloaky hot-droppers.
This is true when you think of ratting as an individual activity. However sov nullsec itself is not an individual activity and when you're fleeted with friends doing PVE its far less of a risk. So occupancy sov can happen but, unlike ill-timed power projection nerfs you have to have engaging scalable PVE in place before you decide to switch to it. Other wise those of us who heed the advice from the financial wizards of our coalition will continue to do what has been recommended, have highsec alts for isk.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6460
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Posted - 2014.10.22 04:15:17 -
[133] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Ms Forum Alt wrote:Ka'Narlist wrote:M If you perma camp all the good ratting systems in a region and have the ability to drop on targets that rat anyways you can be a huge pain in the ass.
Precisely the reason I don't believe any sov changes can be based on residency, industry indicies and so on. It's just too easy to shut a system down with a few cloaky hot-droppers. This is true when you think of ratting as an individual activity. However sov nullsec itself is not an individual activity and when you're fleeted with friends doing PVE its far less of a risk. So occupancy sov can happen but, unlike ill-timed power projection nerfs you have to have engaging scalable PVE in place before you decide to switch to it. Other wise those of us who heed the advice from the financial wizards of our coalition will continue to do what has been recommended, have highsec alts for isk. Your answer comes down to "we (the CFC, a well known group of blobbers) have solved the issue by blobbing". Thankfully these ships are not mining retrievers, therefore the obvious way to control for this is to make mining index critical for sov.
While Moa (the self proclaimed number 1 goon and pet killer for 7 years) has had great success against our ratting backbone in recent history,
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Captain Jazzmag
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2014.10.22 05:57:11 -
[134] - Quote
Ms Forum Alt wrote:Ka'Narlist wrote:M If you perma camp all the good ratting systems in a region and have the ability to drop on targets that rat anyways you can be a huge pain in the ass.
Precisely the reason I don't believe any sov changes can be based on residency, industry indicies and so on. It's just too easy to shut a system down with a few cloaky hot-droppers.
Your thinking is 1 dimensional. Also hot dropping is very overrated right now and will be more so in the future. |
Ms Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
53
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Posted - 2014.10.22 13:29:55 -
[135] - Quote
Captain Jazzmag wrote:Ms Forum Alt wrote:Ka'Narlist wrote:M If you perma camp all the good ratting systems in a region and have the ability to drop on targets that rat anyways you can be a huge pain in the ass.
Precisely the reason I don't believe any sov changes can be based on residency, industry indicies and so on. It's just too easy to shut a system down with a few cloaky hot-droppers. Your thinking is 1 dimensional. Also hot dropping is very overrated right now and will be more so in the future.
The way it generally works is there's not a fleet on standby to come and save your bum every time you get pointed. Perhaps one will form and hit a choke point to try and catch the dropper when he roams out (if he does) but nobody's going to leeroy in to assist you. The most interactive it gets is everyone laughing at your killmail on comms. People just get safe in a POS and either switch out to a PvP ship or goes and makes a cup of tea. Indeed with good intel channels this usually happens before the red hits your system. If there's a known log-off, you move somewhere else.
If it's one dimensional it's because the game doesn't really give you all that many options, especially as you don't know how many and what is going to come through that cyno. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2718
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Posted - 2014.10.22 13:35:57 -
[136] - Quote
Ms Forum Alt wrote:Captain Jazzmag wrote:Ms Forum Alt wrote:Ka'Narlist wrote:M If you perma camp all the good ratting systems in a region and have the ability to drop on targets that rat anyways you can be a huge pain in the ass.
Precisely the reason I don't believe any sov changes can be based on residency, industry indicies and so on. It's just too easy to shut a system down with a few cloaky hot-droppers. Your thinking is 1 dimensional. Also hot dropping is very overrated right now and will be more so in the future. The way it generally works is there's not a fleet on standby to come and save your bum every time you get pointed. Perhaps one will form and hit a choke point to try and catch the dropper when he roams out (if he does) but nobody's going to leeroy in to assist you. The most interactive it gets is everyone laughing at your killmail on comms. People just get safe in a POS and either switch out to a PvP ship or goes and makes a cup of tea. Indeed with good intel channels this usually happens before the red hits your system. If there's a known log-off, you move somewhere else. If it's one dimensional it's because the game doesn't really give you all that many options, especially as you don't know how many and what is going to come through that cyno.
You don't exactly have the experience to back up any of your "the way it works" posts being a Member of the Royal Amarr Institute. Other dude just look at my post a few posts above this.
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Ms Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
53
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Posted - 2014.10.22 14:31:41 -
[137] - Quote
La Nariz wrote: You don't exactly have the experience to back up any of your "the way it works" posts being a Member of the Royal Amarr Institute. Other dude just look at my post a few posts above this.
Sorry dear, I've been playing the game since Beta. I'm probably one of the oldest characters still active in game.
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Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1177
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Posted - 2014.10.22 14:34:42 -
[138] - Quote
Ka'Narlist wrote:Most ratters don't bother fighting back and dock up or leave the system instead so if you do it on a grand scale it does indeed have an impact. If you perma camp all the good ratting systems in a region and have the ability to drop on targets that rat anyways you can be a huge pain in the ass. The problem is that you need enough people willing to have an cloaky alt sitting in system most of the time or to go out and activly hunt. Another big problem is the remoteness of some regions where you on the one hand have to fly your alt trough god knows how many gates to get there and on the other hand have to take multiple mids to bridge there to drop on someone. You can see this very nice when you compare the NPC kills for the last 24h in for example delve where you have NPC space, close proximity to low sec and AFAIK pizza operating there and cobalt edge where you have no NPC space and no proximity to low sec.
Another great example is if you compare the amount of renters in PBLRD: 3500 NA: 14000 BOT: 11000
The eastern regions are far more remote and thus more appealing to renters.
The CFC also treats their renters like crap, which is a large part of the reason many people vastly prefer to rent from BOT/NA, beyond just the safety of the space. |
Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1177
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Posted - 2014.10.22 14:37:01 -
[139] - Quote
Ms Forum Alt wrote:La Nariz wrote: You don't exactly have the experience to back up any of your "the way it works" posts being a Member of the Royal Amarr Institute. Other dude just look at my post a few posts above this.
Sorry dear, I've been playing the game since Beta. I'm probably one of the oldest characters still active in game.
"Royal Amarr Institute [RIN] from 2014.07.30 21:35 to this day"
You are 2 months old. You are not even remotely close to being anything but a newbie, let alone one of the oldest characters in the game. You as a PLAYER might be old in the game, but unfortunately you are so afraid of someone calling you out on your ill-thought-out posts that you hide behind a second layer, after your computer, as a forum troll alt. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2718
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Posted - 2014.10.22 14:38:27 -
[140] - Quote
Ms Forum Alt wrote:La Nariz wrote: You don't exactly have the experience to back up any of your "the way it works" posts being a Member of the Royal Amarr Institute. Other dude just look at my post a few posts above this.
Sorry dear, I've been playing the game since Beta. I'm probably one of the oldest characters still active in game.
Employment History wrote: Royal Amarr Institute [RIN] from 2014.07.30 21:35 to this day
No you haven't pretty much everything you say about the topic of nullsec can be ignored. At best you have the understanding of reading some articles.
Arronicus wrote: The CFC also treats their renters like crap, which is a large part of the reason many people vastly prefer to rent from BOT/NA, beyond just the safety of the space.
How so?
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Ms Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
53
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Posted - 2014.10.22 14:40:33 -
[141] - Quote
La Nariz wrote: No you haven't pretty much everything you say about the topic of nullsec can be ignored. At best you have the understanding of reading some articles.
I'm an alt but don't let that get in the way of your trolling attempt.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2718
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Posted - 2014.10.22 14:45:29 -
[142] - Quote
Ms Forum Alt wrote:La Nariz wrote: No you haven't pretty much everything you say about the topic of nullsec can be ignored. At best you have the understanding of reading some articles.
I'm an alt but don't let that get in the way of your trolling attempt.
Hint, if you want to claim you have experience in something you shouldn't post on an alt that has no evidence of ever doing what you claim.
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Ms Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
53
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Posted - 2014.10.22 14:58:10 -
[143] - Quote
La Nariz wrote: Hint, if you want to claim you have experience in something you shouldn't post on an alt that has no evidence of ever doing what you claim.
I'll post with whichever character I want thanks. Perhaps you should make an actual argument rather than engaging in argumentum ab auctoritate.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2718
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Posted - 2014.10.22 16:24:59 -
[144] - Quote
Ms Forum Alt wrote:La Nariz wrote: Hint, if you want to claim you have experience in something you shouldn't post on an alt that has no evidence of ever doing what you claim.
I'll post with whichever character I want thanks. Perhaps you should make an actual argument rather than engaging in argumentum ab auctoritate.
Then you get to accept that your posts haven less gravitas than those of us who can support with experience.
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
4065
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Posted - 2014.10.22 17:40:48 -
[145] - Quote
Ms Forum Alt wrote:La Nariz wrote: Hint, if you want to claim you have experience in something you shouldn't post on an alt that has no evidence of ever doing what you claim.
I'll post with whichever character I want thanks. Perhaps you should make an actual argument rather than engaging in argumentum ab auctoritate. in a normal discussion argument from authority is acceptable as an indictive argument and a premise entirely acceptable to question
if someone does question it you are expected to respondo withum moreo thanum italics |
Chopper Rollins
Lantean Empire
975
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Posted - 2014.10.22 22:58:02 -
[146] - Quote
Harry Potter, you got a lotta 'splainin' to do.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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