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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
79
   |
Posted - 2014.10.15 16:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ka'Narlist wrote:All the turbo jews are not interested in something like this.
Seems that parts of the lingo are very very old... |
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
460
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 16:03:00 -
[32] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Okay ... renters don't mind it ... alliance members do.
Seems weird. One would assume that in alliances containing thousands of people
it would be trivial to find people who wouldn't mind ...
... it's seriously confusing me, but I guess I have to accept this weirdness.
Thanks!
Peoples motivations are different and in turn one needs the other to survive. For me to have SRP to replace my blown up ships we need ISK, to get ISK we need income and that income - at least a small part right now - is from renters (for PL and NCDOT it's probably there core income). In turn my ships get blown up defending renter empires.
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with renting out space or running protection rackets in EVE - inventive methods of income should be championed in EVE. The problem lies in something like PL or NCDOT's rental empires which take up most of the east of EVE: A very small group of people using supercapitals and carriers can effectively defend half the map because they're flying unbalanced ships and force projection allows that. It's not PL or NCDOT's fault either, its because the mechanics allow them to do this, so they've done it. |
Ka'Narlist
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
230
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 16:19:00 -
[33] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Ka'Narlist wrote:All the turbo jews are not interested in something like this.
Seems that parts of the lingo are very very old...
Yes it is and quite hard to get rid of 
But there is no offense intended to actual jewish people |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10967
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 16:41:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ka'Narlist wrote:Solecist Project wrote:
Can you, or someone else, tell me more about Pasta, what they do and their impact?
Awoxing guarantees citizenship Please don't tell me you don't know wheniaminspace No, I don't actually know him.
I think I catched the name once, but no idea who he is.
Can you tell me more?
And thank you, knobber, for your interesting post!
I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked.
New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do
than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
Speedkermit Damo
GeoCorp.
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
360
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 17:02:00 -
[35] - Quote
Killing renters is an absolute necessity.
It's what interceptors were meant for, and besides a good number of renters are multiboxing botters anyway. Your'e really helping CCP out by killing them.
Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
17096
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 17:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
The way I look at it is if im red to an alliance, and that alliance rents to people, then those people are red and therefore targets.
But then of course, anyone who isn't red is a target. Half the time anyone who isn't a purple is a target...
Im pretty much all for more targets.
Plus, renter tears are some of the sweetest tears of all!
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
53
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 18:38:00 -
[37] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:back around 2012...i had a main that was part of a renter alliance....we rented at roughly 4 billion isk per system and we had two systems. so 8 bill per month. Though we in the great scheme of things paid our lip service to the Landlord....most of leadership snickered a bit at them.
The reason was on the average our 200 member group at the time collectively made 200 billion isk oer month....with just two systems. We were decently self sufficient when it came to industry. Our only short coming was the super small pvp division that we had at the time supplemented on occassion by our ratting corps. Alliance Coffers obtained taxing our own corps to be out there about 25% of that collective income per month.
So recalling this experience.....I would say 'no' renters are not required in nullsec. And I also call BS on those nullbears that say it isnt possible to fully utilize their space for the projects they are doing. Motivation and a will to actually own something and maintain it is the key....not easy laziness. Things get easy after the work and infrastructure are in place.
I am not sure if the rents are still the same but if we take your 4 billion per system as a guideline and look at 688 systems with Northern Associates holding sov. we arrive at the not so shabby sum of 2752 billion PER MONTH for the landlords of NA.
Bottinghood of Tangra would earn their PL lords ~1450 billion per month and even the CFC renters would earn their masters ~500 billion a month.
Oh how poor must the land lords be and how terrible the life must be if you get that much isks each month for doing nothing at all. Since there is a no sov war agreement there isn-¦t much to waste isks on.
How many titans did PL lose again? 33? if we assume 100 bill each including fitting for the sake of easy calculating, those losses were basically replaced as far as isks are concerned within a little over 2 months.
So during this age of the blue doughnut with nothing to waste these insane amounts of isks on what do N3., PL and the CFC do with all those isks? Stockpile cap and supercap fleets at every other system so that the upcoming fatigue system won-¦t bother them at all? |
Brorr Liason
Maraque Enterprises
Brothers of Tangra
51
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 18:41:00 -
[38] - Quote
I see it as nothing more than content generation on a small scale by both the renters and the renter hunters.
We have been renting for awhile now and we see the 'normal' WH groups come through quite often. They have no lasting effects on the usage of our systems nor on the morale of my pilots. Of course bickering goes back and forth because easy kills were not given, we blobbed them or we got caught by them. We also understand they are out for 'good fights' AND easy kills at the same time or they wouldn't bother coming to the same regions every night.
We actually look forward to some of the groups that pass through because they fly well and provide good pvp for us. Some are just dicks and aren't worth trying to engage or converse with. Without them it would be both boring and an ISK farm. They are the only ones adding risk to the renter portion of nullsec.
While I don't plan to rent forever, we are enjoying our time in our region and my pilots are learning enough to be sufficient at supporting themselves and working to expel the fleets that come through. People gotta start somewhere and some of us choose to pay to be in null.
So I throw a wave at the common groups that fly through my area:
0/
Solar
Lazerhawks
Adastra and friends
Ixtab
Hard Knocks
No Holes Barred
Camel (Occasionally)
A4D (Occasionally)
Moon Tribe
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
^
Without those guys (and others), we'd be bored and they help shape and train my pilots. Whether renting or not should happen isn't really a problem for us. I'm sure it doesn't make sense to some but we've been around EVE the past few years and I feel it's a good step for some corporations before they find their niche in the universe.
|
DaReaper
Net 7
The Last Brigade
1121
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 18:44:00 -
[39] - Quote
Jacob Holland wrote:I believe renting goes back further than that...
Didn't BoB rent out some of their space? Not in the sense that they got ISS to put up stations for them but in the more modern manner.
The arguement that renting "gets the little guys out to null" brings me to recall people like Mom and Pop Ammo Shoppe - They were a small corp, I guess 20 members (it was a long time ago) and they lived out of a single POS in a single system... When IAC took over the pocket (and later the constellation) they remained in place and remained neutral, I don't believe they paid us anything (except refining taxes when we built The Distillery)...
Getting "the little guys" out to null seems rather an altruistic sentiment - though the method may have a great deal more to do with enlightened self-interest...
It was also a little more complicated then it is now, but yes, there were various factions that paid rent, or protection/hush money. BoB had the GBC which it would let die often if it was not in there interest to save there pets.
My alliance, Brotherhood of steel, used to live in the kari pipe and were alies with UK. When CVA came in and tossed UK on there rear end we were given the option to switch sides or die. We switched, but still had a war with cry havocs founders. For some odd reason, I had a working relationship with Tyraxx, and for reasons I still dunno, he let us move to iac space. We did not pay rent but we had a few systems and were semi pets.
So in some cases, its was more complicate then.
When dominion came out, my alliance was one of the first renters, only because a director took sov in cloud ring before we were ready so we sued for peace with Evoke. When goods, or It might of been test, I forget, put pressure on evoke in CR we moved and became altas. renters. They had lame rules, in that we had to blue all other renters. it was annoying as there were a few I would of loved to have a skirmish with.
Anyway, picking on renters is easy to do, cause form experience, most of the time the renting alliance is too weak to stop you. Otherwise they would throw off the yoke of rent.
And I saw first hand, how if one alliance won't pay rent and gets evicked, then there are 5 more that will. We used to have biddign wars for systems in atlas space a few times.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766 |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10970
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 18:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
Thank you, Brorr, for this really nice post ... even with greetings! :D
I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked.
New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do
than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
|
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DaReaper
Net 7
The Last Brigade
1123
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 18:51:00 -
[41] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Thank you, Brorr, for this really nice post ... even with greetings! :D
And thanks, DaReaper, as well ... for this short trip into the past. :)
Eh don't get me started, if its one I remember very well, its a good chunk of eve history. 10.. no nearly 11 years of useless facts is my speciality
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766 |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10970
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 19:07:00 -
[42] - Quote
I really doubt it's useless.
Besides being able to write a book about it ...
... I'm sure there is valueable information the past offers.
Things that are forgotten, which can be put to new use again.
No matter what, I appreciate your posts. :)
I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked.
New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do
than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
Ra' zutao
The Ascended Fleet
Northern Associates.
26
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 19:18:00 -
[43] - Quote
In All Honesty though it wouldn't be a bad idea to get a mass conglomerate together to harass these area's and start breaking up Null sec again. |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
772
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 20:30:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ilaister wrote:A lot of WH groups make it their business to prey on renters almost exclusively. They kill a lot of ratting carriers. Like, a lot....
Dunno too much about it myself cos we are bad at catching them before they dock/POS up but I think the numbers are negligible in the grand scheme of things.
Phoebe will make rental empires defunct though no?
Its up in the air atm whether renters will be defunct... but yes Wormholers tend to be the only ones that can access renter empires to go kill (distance, byassing camps, etc).
So Renters are Basically the Freighters in Uedama and Niarja, and Wormholers are the Gankers.
Come Phoebe... The renter empires will probably stay till someone evicts them. Basically they'll pay rental income in order for the Nullsec Empire not to Evict them from the space they inhabit, but they are SOL if they get invaded.
But then whoever owns it will have to deal with logistic lines.
Yaay!!!! |
Hicksimus
Plan-It Xpress
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
370
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 21:05:00 -
[45] - Quote
As a renter I think that it's still a better life than being in a non-renting alliance(even if I'm a little bit more hunted).
Whenever I'm in a big alliance it's the same large group of people with absolutely 0 community who get along because shooting eachother would take effort where as not shooting eachother does no harm(great gameplay mechanics on behalf of CCP by making a large quantity of all nullsec activities avilable). I can log in, go about my business in a single system with people that I play with for fun and at the end of the day when I forget to set my phone to silent I don't get jabbered at 4AM to go on some useless structure shoot with an FC that hates me just as much as I hate him.
If I have to get ganked a bit more for this privilege I'm fine with that.
Do you have it? |
Regnag Leppod
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
68
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 21:11:00 -
[46] - Quote
Elsa Hayes wrote:
I am not sure if the rents are still the same but if we take your 4 billion per system as a guideline and look at 688 systems with Northern Associates holding sov. we arrive at the not so shabby sum of 2752 billion PER MONTH for the landlords of NA.
Bottinghood of Tangra would earn their PL lords ~1450 billion per month and even the CFC renters would earn their masters ~500 billion a month.
Oh how poor must the land lords be and how terrible the life must be if you get that much isks each month for doing nothing at all. Since there is a no sov war agreement there isn-¦t much to waste isks on.
And yet the null-sec people are constantly whining about how high-sec is this mythical isk-faucet, and should be nerfed until you can't make more isk in high-sec than you can in Null.
My question is, what exactly are these landlords doing with all that isk? I wonder what one could possibly do with an obscene amount of isk... gee.. it's almost as if the renters are bots.... |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
2847
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 21:15:00 -
[47] - Quote
Yeah, I'm sure Phoebe will make renters go away 
Because there's no way landlordz could subdivide their wast lands into smaller pieces with artificial sov changes managed and protected by dedicated groups. Yeah, they will have to personally make millions of jumps back and forth all over their space.
The only thing that will change is more granulation in sov map. So instead one huge blob of one color we will have few smaller blobs but if you follow the money you will see they end up in the same pockets as they do now.
As for shooting renting corps or harassing them by AFK cloaked System Health Inspectors it has basically zero influence. You explode few idiots in carriers who don't pay attention to intel and local and don't check sigs on probe scanner but those who are awake will dock up and alt+tab to another game to wait you out. Some will fight but not when you have 20+ people on proper fleet and they can undock 5 - 10 people at most. But there are organized fleets on landlord's alliance level where everybody is welcome to join and people join them and have fun shooting hostiles so it's like everybody there is a sheep ready to be slaughtered.
Renting corp is there for PVE and indy stuff so expecting them to reship from skiffs and paladins into pvp doctrine is kind of naive to say at least. They went there to mine and rat and do POS alchemy and they pay for it - it's hard to have more clear indication of what they want to do in Eve.
Just my 2 cents :)
Invalid signature format |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
6502
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 01:26:00 -
[48] - Quote
Ilaister wrote:
Phoebe will make rental empires defunct though no?
It very well may.
One scenario is that once the big alliances decide it's best to turtle up in a small area, the renters will stop paying rent. Then they won't be renters any more.
So while the CFC et al continue doing SFA and claiming they won eve, the former renters will be actively engaging in fighting over territory. And that's the whole idea isn't it? Fighting and losing ships. Making null fun again?
Mr Epeen 
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
461
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 06:45:00 -
[49] - Quote
Elsa Hayes wrote:Max Deveron wrote:back around 2012...i had a main that was part of a renter alliance....we rented at roughly 4 billion isk per system and we had two systems. so 8 bill per month. Though we in the great scheme of things paid our lip service to the Landlord....most of leadership snickered a bit at them.
The reason was on the average our 200 member group at the time collectively made 200 billion isk oer month....with just two systems. We were decently self sufficient when it came to industry. Our only short coming was the super small pvp division that we had at the time supplemented on occassion by our ratting corps. Alliance Coffers obtained taxing our own corps to be out there about 25% of that collective income per month.
So recalling this experience.....I would say 'no' renters are not required in nullsec. And I also call BS on those nullbears that say it isnt possible to fully utilize their space for the projects they are doing. Motivation and a will to actually own something and maintain it is the key....not easy laziness. Things get easy after the work and infrastructure are in place. I am not sure if the rents are still the same but if we take your 4 billion per system as a guideline and look at 688 systems with Northern Associates holding sov. we arrive at the not so shabby sum of 2752 billion PER MONTH for the landlords of NA. Bottinghood of Tangra would earn their PL lords ~1450 billion per month and even the CFC renters would earn their masters ~500 billion a month. Oh how poor must the land lords be and how terrible the life must be if you get that much isks each month for doing nothing at all. Since there is a no sov war agreement there isn-¦t much to waste isks on. How many titans did PL lose again? 33? if we assume 100 bill each including fitting for the sake of easy calculating, those losses were basically replaced as far as isks are concerned within a little over 2 months. So during this age of the blue doughnut with nothing to waste these insane amounts of isks on what do N3., PL and the CFC do with all those isks? Stockpile cap and supercap fleets at every other system so that the upcoming fatigue system won-¦t bother them at all?
You can't just build and stockpile supercaps. They're a space coffin that needs a permanent character with over a years worth of training to sit in them. Even at around 50b for the ship and pilot, you're going to be limited by the number being trained and sold and then left unsubbed. It's not as simple as building it then caching it.
|
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10977
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 07:03:00 -
[50] - Quote
Thank you for your posts.
As Pasta has been mentioned as first one,
I would like to know more about their activities, if possible?
More than what killboards can tell me.
Although I fear that all has been said already....
I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked.
New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do
than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
|
|
Ka'Narlist
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
234
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 07:18:00 -
[51] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:
As Pasta has been mentioned as first one,
Pasta is a group primaerily operating out of delve npc space with the intention of making the life of who ever lives in delve as miserable as possible.
I'm not sure about their beginnings but a lot of them previously where in test and a favorite term of them is "Awoxing guarantees citizenship" which means if you awoxed an allymate for them you where allowed to join them.
They where specialized in small or solo combat but if you look at their killboard you'll see that they also don't shy away from fielding big toys.
While we where living in delve they would roam, hotdrop, or gatecamp the **** out of unexpecting ratters and while we where deployed somewhere else they would start grabbing money moons which we then had to take back from them. They also like bombing fleets very much.
Despite all this there was never any hate between us and they even helped us on special occasions.
One of their most famous pilots is wheniaminspace who can be seen on a lot of killmails from poor ratters with his cloaky sabre and is possibly one of the best bomber FCs in eve (but I only once had the pleasure of him FCing a bomber fleet I was in).
Nowadays they do a lot of stuff together with Black Legion I think. |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10977
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 07:21:00 -
[52] - Quote
They're in CalMil too... but I never notice them mentioned by anyone.
Thanks again, Ka' ... you're a great poster! :)
I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked.
New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do
than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
RomeStar
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
534
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 14:37:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ilaister wrote:Phoebe will make rental empires defunct though no?
Not really it will actually make ratting safer due to nobody hot dropping from the other side of new eden.
Signatured removed, CCP Phantom |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8567
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 14:49:00 -
[54] - Quote
RomeStar wrote:Ilaister wrote:Phoebe will make rental empires defunct though no? Not really it will actually make ratting safer due to nobody hot dropping from the other side of new eden.
Damn it, I've now had to like a RomeStar post. look at what you did CCP!
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8567
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 14:51:00 -
[55] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Ilaister wrote:
Phoebe will make rental empires defunct though no?
It very well may.
Wishfull thinking that ignores the past.
The past:
Quote:Expected consequences
Some alliances will immediately start wanting to look for better space
In the longer run, there'll be more conflicts going on, with more localized goals
Newer alliances will have an easier time getting a foothold in nullsec
Coalitions will be marginally less stable
Alliances will have to choose more carefully what space they develop, where their staging systems are, and so on (low truesec systems generally tend to be in strategically inconvenient places)
That was 3 and a half years ago. How many times do we (as a game community) have to experience history repeat itself till we realize that a certain way of thinking does not work?
|
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2542
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 14:52:00 -
[56] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Lucrii Dei wrote:I would assume that the groups that have the ability to rent space out have enough ISK piled up collectively to last a very long time even if all the renters stopped paying and moved out.  I do remember people explaining why renting became a thing and I hope that those people in the know will share their knowledge in here. Hearsay and biased opinions on the matter aren't helpfull.
Well as we are talking about carebears that would make about every post in this regard non valid though sole .
Just saying
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10990
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 15:00:00 -
[57] - Quote
I would like to remind you people that if you feel the need to talk about this ...
... as absolutely pointless as it is ...
... then you need your own thread for that.
Thanks.
I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. - You are my content, my shiny content -
you make me haaappy, when skies are greeeeyyy -
you'll never know dear, how much I loooooove you - don't you take my content away! |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
7022
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 15:13:00 -
[58] - Quote
Yeah, dont talk about the thread subject in its thread
You need to make a new thread if you want to do that
"Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Jace Sarice
16843
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 16:21:00 -
[59] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:I would like to remind you people that if you feel the need to talk about this ...
... as absolutely pointless as it is ...
... then you need your own thread for that.
Thanks.
No. |
Hengle Teron
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
2584
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 21:26:00 -
[60] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Yeah, dont talk about the thread subject in its thread You need to make a new thread if you want to do that
This thread is not about the renters, but about the people shooting them :) |
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