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Why ECM is overpowered.

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Sn4k3 3y3s	Posted - 2006.08.17 02:13:00 - [1] Yeah. Whine time I was just messing about on the test server with the new 'FFA 3' and 'FFA 4' zones (for cruisers + frigates ) in my lovely deimos. A vexor warps in, and Im just like 'o ya ya t1, dieee!'. Within 1 second of locking me, I was jammed. The jam kept going, only breaking off for a 5 second interval during the whole fight, allowing his vexor to kill me, slowly. If this is not overpowered, I do not know what is. Make ECM number-based again, like the old system. That was fine, and ECM did what it was supposed to and no more. Whine
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.08.17 02:34:00 - [2] Tonight, a friend had a single multispec II on his Curse. I was flying a Rook with 46 sensor strength (yep, I actually use ECCM, not like the average whiner) and he jammed me once, then failed, then jammed again. I remember a fleet battle where my Scorpion (EW specialized, BS 5, you name it) failed ALL attempts at jamming (like 15 in a row). Lost Scorpion, expandable, no worries... I also remember a battle where I screwed up as commander and warped myself to a gate instead of the gang (**** happens) and before my gang arrived I had 4 ships jammed at the gate (1BS, 3 cruisers) with multispecs II... on a Ferox! Won battle, sweet memories, you get the idea. EW is utterly broken, it's not even a joke, it's pathetic. I don't mind gambling a Scorp, but a 200mill Falcon, sorry but no thanx ____________________ Darko1107 > does anything in ascn space have tech II fittings? Quillan Rage > Iron ships
jbob2000 Gallente The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.08.17 02:49:00 - [3] Yes, it is quite retarded atm. You basically win eve atm with your mids filled with ECM.
Nebuli Caldari Art of War	Posted - 2006.08.17 02:50:00 - [4] Still maintain the original ECM system was FAR superior to the current system, the old system had its flaws agreed, but not like todays system. If CCP cant come up with a way to fix I dont know why they dont just put it back how it was. CEO - Art of War
Sn4k3 3y3s	Posted - 2006.08.17 02:59:00 - [5] Originally by: Nebuli If CCP cant come up with a way to fix I dont know why they dont just put it back how it was. Epeen, makes them look like they failed. More evidence that BoB are CCP alts!
Benglada Central Defiance	Posted - 2006.08.17 03:12:00 - [6] Originally by: Sn4k3 3y3s Originally by: Nebuli If CCP cant come up with a way to fix I dont know why they dont just put it back how it was. Epeen, makes them look like they failed. More evidence that BoB are CCP alts! Did you just figure out how to use the forums? --------------------------- Originally by: Wrangler Unfrtinately you dnot get to vote..
Sn4k3 3y3s	Posted - 2006.08.17 03:16:00 - [7] Originally by: Benglada Originally by: Sn4k3 3y3s Originally by: Nebuli If CCP cant come up with a way to fix I dont know why they dont just put it back how it was. Epeen, makes them look like they failed. More evidence that BoB are CCP alts! Did you just figure out how to use the forums? I told you I'm lofty29
eLLioTT wave Art of War	Posted - 2006.08.17 03:26:00 - [8] Originally by: Sn4k3 3y3s Originally by: Nebuli If CCP cant come up with a way to fix I dont know why they dont just put it back how it was. Epeen, makes them look like they failed. More evidence that BoB are CCP alts! What does that even mean? Too much crash for you i think... @ op: Yes ECM is buggered, CCP have said they are changing it (i'm fairly sure). I would like: removal of all multi specs. Racial jammers only, old system of strength based (CCP's random generator is bjorked and always has been). Also ECM should have a cool down period, so that you can't jam someone fulltime, maybe 10/10 seconds on/off?
Michelle Deathmind	Posted - 2006.08.17 03:29:00 - [9] Would you like some cheese with this thread? Lock please.
K1K1R1K1	Posted - 2006.08.17 04:18:00 - [10] Could someone explain to me how the old system used to work? ____________________________________________ Don't worry aboutit
Princess Beefcurtains Karnival of Death Squad	Posted - 2006.08.17 04:32:00 - [11] Originally by: K1K1R1K1 Could someone explain to me how the old system used to work? Old system worked but stacking up the ammounts on the ECM to above the strength of the ships sensors, so basically to jam a bs you needed 3 or so racials (the advanced ECM skills where not out at the time and scorp was different). basically, this meant that if you sacrificed a few slots on your ship for backups, they would actually do something. On the 8th day, Beef created Super McDonalds, and Britain sank
Death Merchant InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.08.17 04:33:00 - [12] Edited by: Death Merchant on 17/08/2006 04:34:43 My explanation of the old system. lets say you have 20 gravimetric sensor strength... if anyone could put more than 20 gravimetric jaming strength on you.. you were jammed. I think it worked out to be either 3 racial(6 strength a module) or 4/5 multi specs, or combination or something.. I forgot. You could increase your sensor strength with backups. One backup equalled 4 sensor strength thus increasing the ship to 24.(note that sensor strenght values fluctuated based on ships). Groups would fly in with a lot of scorpions and cycle jam the bejeesus out of your fleet. Cycle jaming is basically jamming a ship then moving to another if done correctly a few scorpions could cripple a whole fleet (factoring in lock time). People complained it was overpowered. Now 1 vigil can disable a bs with one multispec. People are complaining its overpowered. "What happens in Deklien stays in Deklien".
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2006.08.17 04:35:00 - [13] Originally by: K1K1R1K1 Could someone explain to me how the old system used to work? Ship hav X strength, if your jammers matched or surpassed X stregnth he would be jammed, but with a far shorter cycle time (none at all if ui recall right, also 100% effective as long as you could lock) A griff could jam any BS bar the scrop with 4 multis, but not for long, blackbird was the obvious choice and could run the jammer for ever. And crows were permajammed with a single caldari racial jammer :) No luck, just planning which made jamming ppl and countering jamming a far more precise . The flaws were scorps could use 8 multis to break locks (4 per BS) to break a lock) and having say 6 targets and cycling through them all making sure all the target BS had to contantly relock. A few scorps back then were a force to be reckoned with as they could litteraly take a handfull of BS totally out of the fight.
Locke Ateid Minmatar Outrider Fleet Command	Posted - 2006.08.17 04:53:00 - [14] Originally by: Dr Fighter Originally by: K1K1R1K1 Could someone explain to me how the old system used to work? Ship hav X strength, if your jammers matched or surpassed X stregnth he would be jammed, but with a far shorter cycle time (none at all if ui recall right, also 100% effective as long as you could lock) A griff could jam any BS bar the scrop with 4 multis, but not for long, blackbird was the obvious choice and could run the jammer for ever. And crows were permajammed with a single caldari racial jammer :) No luck, just planning which made jamming ppl and countering jamming a far more precise . The flaws were scorps could use 8 multis to break locks (4 per BS) to break a lock) and having say 6 targets and cycling through them all making sure all the target BS had to contantly relock. A few scorps back then were a force to be reckoned with as they could litteraly take a handfull of BS totally out of the fight. Yeah, but at least back-up arrays and ECCMs were useful back then. You could even fake a jam ship out and boost a different race's sensor type, largely because racials were the way to go and having dedicated multi spec ships were very hard to maintain (due to much higher cap consumation than racials, lower cycles, higher fitting). Heck, it was even a real risk flying a jam ship because you HAD to know who you were going to fight before you set-up or else you ran the risk of having the wrong jammers.
Terraform Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.17 05:17:00 - [15] I still prefere an idea someone posted a while back where he suggested that instead of disabling the entire ship, how about just a random module? it would suck to have 2 of your 4 guns jammed, but at least you'd still have a fair chance of surviving. If you ask me, i'd take out the entire ECm system and throw it down the garbage never to be recovered...
Dethis Caldari Eve University	Posted - 2006.08.17 05:52:00 - [16] Originally by: Terraform I still prefere an idea someone posted a while back where he suggested that instead of disabling the entire ship, how about just a random module? it would suck to have 2 of your 4 guns jammed, but at least you'd still have a fair chance of surviving. If you ask me, i'd take out the entire ECm system and throw it down the garbage never to be recovered... I agree just remove ecm all together change ecm specc ships to something else -------- Kill em all and let god sort em out
Dr Felonius Caldari The Starlight Society	Posted - 2006.08.17 06:12:00 - [17] Originally by: Terraform I still prefere an idea someone posted a while back where he suggested that instead of disabling the entire ship, how about just a random module? it would suck to have 2 of your 4 guns jammed, but at least you'd still have a fair chance of surviving. I vote not per module but per shot. If they have ECM on you at 40% of your sensor strength, 40% of your turret shots and missiles automatically miss, before tracking/sig radius/explosion speed are taken into effect.
Hayabusa Fury Caldari Wu-Tang Financial Mordus Angels	Posted - 2006.08.17 06:20:00 - [18] They need to make it so the ECM is a defensive module not an offensive one. A jammed ship can not lock the ship jamming it. It still can lock and attack other ships. This way defensivly having jammers on can protect a specific ship(i.e. hauler, command ship, or any commonly called "primary" ship that you need to stick around a while). I don't know, but 1 module should not be able to take out an entire ship. I think it is like any game that has a snare, stun or any move like jamming that 1 move can disable another player. It is just not fun. Which is the reason we are all here in the first place, for FUN...remember that module CCP? ---------------- "I can not recall the number of times my superior intellect has got me knee deep in ****!" --Harely Hayes
MrRookie Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2006.08.17 07:13:00 - [19] They need to change it. atleast reduce the cycle time and have a delay on the next activation, as loosing lock is a harsh enough penalty. Remove the chance based stuff and make it more like the old stuff. Also make ECM alot harder to fitt CPU wise and increase the CPU on ships dedicated for these modules. That way it's going to be alot harder for the Dominix to fitt hese modules and other ships randomly using it, like ceptors jamming capital ships ________________________________________________ ________________________________________________
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.17 07:19:00 - [20] I don't think the problem is with ECM per-se. I mean, if the ECMs worked at the same sort of ratio that the probabilities seem to suggest, then I don't really see the problem. But all too often (which ok, is subjective) it seem that I have a good day, and jam everyone with 1 multispec each, or a bad day, when my ECMs just cycle, use up cap, and after a minute I've not jammed anyone. I still have my suspicions that the problem isn't so much the ECM/ECCM system, as the random number generation.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.08.17 07:28:00 - [21] Reverting to the old system would be great, I hate the current one with a passion! It brakes small scale PvP totally I forsee one problem though We all trained up our ECM Skills While anyone that actually wanted to be any good pre game breaking ECM changes had theyre skill at level 1 To reduce the cycle time and allow faster cycling of targets Or was that just me Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
PeveS	Posted - 2006.08.17 08:04:00 - [22] Originally by: James Lyrus I don't think the problem is with ECM per-se. I mean, if the ECMs worked at the same sort of ratio that the probabilities seem to suggest, then I don't really see the problem. But all too often (which ok, is subjective) it seem that I have a good day, and jam everyone with 1 multispec each, or a bad day, when my ECMs just cycle, use up cap, and after a minute I've not jammed anyone. I still have my suspicions that the problem isn't so much the ECM/ECCM system, as the random number generation. Agreed. I jam a cruiser in my interceptor, you can jam a BS in you cruiser. But all ships can fit to make the change of jamming more less. Use backup arrays, or midsot sensor strengt enhancer mod (forgot the name). Just take a good look at the random number generator system.
Altai Saker Omniscient Order Verisum Family	Posted - 2006.08.17 08:06:00 - [23] Whatever they do they need to fix this.
ZuN3 Fortunis Novum Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.17 08:20:00 - [24] Edited by: ZuN3 on 17/08/2006 08:22:52 Originally by: Sn4k3 3y3s Whine Exact same thing happened with my vagabond, 1 multi spec kept me jammed pretty much constantly. I didn't die because I didn't go within web range, but yeah. Completely overpowered and very boring. edit: That was also against a vexor^
Kery Nysell Caldari Nysell Incorporated	Posted - 2006.08.17 08:58:00 - [25] Originally by: Sn4k3 3y3s Yeah. Whine time I was just messing about on the test server with the new 'FFA 3' and 'FFA 4' zones (for cruisers + frigates ) in my lovely deimos. A vexor warps in, and Im just like 'o ya ya t1, dieee!'. Within 1 second of locking me, I was jammed. The jam kept going, only breaking off for a 5 second interval during the whole fight, allowing his vexor to kill me, slowly. If this is not overpowered, I do not know what is. Make ECM number-based again, like the old system. That was fine, and ECM did what it was supposed to and no more. Whine Did he scramble you ? If not, what kept you from warping out, thus breaking the jam, before coming back to see if he could jam you again ? I smell a "my Deimos CANNOT die to a Vexor, so I'll just forget all about how to fight" post, rather than a broken ECM system ...
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.08.17 09:00:00 - [26] Originally by: Dethis I agree just remove ecm all together change ecm specc ships to something else A game of nothing but shooting and tanking is like Space Invaders. No thanks.
KilROCK Minmatar Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.17 09:11:00 - [27] I quite like how it works, I abuse it and thanks to ECCM, it makes the random 1 multispec *****s cry. Even dedicated platform are failing rather often with a ECCM module fitted in your mids. When it comes to being jammed, i care whenever it happens if i'm flying a hac/BS. Anything else i don't mind much since it's worthless. The old system was horrible. Tic Tac Toe. Got a bigger rock? You win. Horrible for fleet and why people used dampeners alot more on their scorpions back then. ECM/EW needs to be tweaked but i'm quite happy how it works right now. I think multispecs shouldn't be as effective on non ECM dedicated ships but racial jammers be as good as they are right now. Nice sig altai, Absolution jamming you. I hate to be critical, but i'd fit 5 hornet ec-300 on my absolution, was it a midslot fitted module or drones, because otherwise, i just don't see why it matters. ECM is a win, and if you're brilliant enough to 'counter' for it, well you have no reason to whine. It needs fixing sure, reverting it back? I don't think so. Move forward, not backward. SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest	Posted - 2006.08.17 09:24:00 - [28] The current system is broke plane and simple. Whether they use their old code base as a template for a new system or the current code base I do not care. ECM drones are fine as is. I'd like partial jamming + the current system if they would rase ship strenghs up more. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Chewan Mesa Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.08.17 10:03:00 - [29] Originally by: KilROCK I quite like how it works, I abuse it and thanks to ECCM, it makes the random 1 multispec *****s cry. Even dedicated platform are failing rather often with a ECCM module fitted in your mids. When it comes to being jammed, i care whenever it happens if i'm flying a hac/BS. Anything else i don't mind much since it's worthless. The old system was horrible. Tic Tac Toe. Got a bigger rock? You win. Horrible for fleet and why people used dampeners alot more on their scorpions back then. ECM/EW needs to be tweaked but i'm quite happy how it works right now. I think multispecs shouldn't be as effective on non ECM dedicated ships but racial jammers be as good as they are right now. Nice sig altai, Absolution jamming you. I hate to be critical, but i'd fit 5 hornet ec-300 on my absolution, was it a midslot fitted module or drones, because otherwise, i just don't see why it matters. ECM is a win, and if you're brilliant enough to 'counter' for it, well you have no reason to whine. It needs fixing sure, reverting it back? I don't think so. Move forward, not backward. QFT.
darth solo Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.08.17 10:36:00 - [30] Originally by: Nebuli Still maintain the original ECM system was FAR superior to the current system, the old system had its flaws agreed, but not like todays system. If CCP cant come up with a way to fix I dont know why they dont just put it back how it was. the old system was exact.. if u had 3 racial jammers u had -18 of whatever race.. this meant if i had a backup u would be screwed and i would kill you... i also liked that way... it was a time of 1v1s in BS, who had the best skills won... now even frigs have ecm. and why would they not. its a game of chance and luck and i cant believe CCP have continued with it even though 90% of eve hates it. d solo. d solo.

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