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Removing courier missions = nailgun to newbie foreheads?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Gaius Sejanus Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2006.08.23 04:28:00 - [1] The missions that newbies recieved post-tutorial that used to be a series of courier tasks that resulted in a bunch of starter money and the implant are....gone. I predict I'm going to be throwing a lot of beggars on ignore for this.
rodgerd Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.08.23 05:59:00 - [2] Originally by: Gaius Sejanus The missions that newbies recieved post-tutorial that used to be a series of courier tasks that resulted in a bunch of starter money and the implant are....gone. I predict I'm going to be throwing a lot of beggars on ignore for this. You're ****ting me, right? Worst. Decision. Ever.
Enea Dharnova Caldari Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.08.23 06:41:00 - [3] Edited by: Enea Dharnova on 23/08/2006 06:43:16 I confirm, all newb courier missions and tutorial agents have been removed (was doing the first serie of courier mission with an alt mysellf, and this morning, no agent nor mission any more) .... this is... bad :) Good judgement comes from Experience. Experience often comes from bad judgement
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.23 08:34:00 - [4] Yeah, the devs really need to bring courier missions back as a priority. For the next few days I think we have to accept that getting the patch settled will be their priority but after that I think we have a right to expect a proper explanation and timescale for their replacement. The best thing they could do is make it the subject of a dev blog and assure us that replacement courier missions will be coming in the next patch. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Mika Zimmer Gallente Renyn Supply Company	Posted - 2006.08.23 09:35:00 - [5] You have to be kidding me. The rookie implant mission is gone? CCP doesn't like newbies!
Fubear	Posted - 2006.08.23 10:52:00 - [6] So basically, new players are stuck with 5000ISK, a newbie ship, and only combat missions to get them started in Eve?
Lurtz Caldari Gunrunners and Gamblers	Posted - 2006.08.23 10:58:00 - [7] Originally by: Fubear So basically, new players are stuck with 5000ISK, a newbie ship, and only combat missions to get them started in Eve? well they could mine like I did early on....
Miss Overlord	Posted - 2006.08.23 12:31:00 - [8] Originally by: Lurtz Originally by: Fubear So basically, new players are stuck with 5000ISK, a newbie ship, and only combat missions to get them started in Eve? well they could mine like I did early on.... more might be willing to join player corps instead of dropping the line i wanna get used to game first (assisting looting of level 4 missions for more experiencd pros was my first way into the game i made ISK very quickly) tho otherwise mining or easy combat missions are their only way.
Siri Blue Gallente Eve University	Posted - 2006.08.23 13:23:00 - [9] Edited by: Siri Blue on 23/08/2006 13:24:09 This is sick.... Removing ALL the courier missions INCLUDING the tutorial missions!!! Without even giving ANY ETA on any new ones! This is sick... Don't get me wrong dear devs...I can understand and appreciate how you want to improve the game in the long and mid term...but you just destroyed quite a part in the short term for me and several else (including noobs)
MrLobster	Posted - 2006.08.23 15:26:00 - [10] Indeed, a really bad decision, but I expect something to return in its place. I did most of my lvl 1 with courier, then I got my cruiser (first one died after 10 mins, damn stupid belt rats and scrams) and got from lvl 1 - 3 in a few days. That was mainly accept mission, complete mission, accept mission, complete mission.... etc all weekend. I went back to my lvl 2 agent a few days ago (to get rid of LP), and I was shocked at how little you get in LP and isk rewards. Anyway back to the subject.. I never went past lvl 1 in courier, they just got boring, and mining at that point was bringing home more isk.
Matt Trakand	Posted - 2006.08.23 15:46:00 - [11] excellent I run kill missions in a station with 3 L3 Q20 agents, and L4 Q20 agents. 4 of those agents are production agents; I was wondering why they all gave me kill missions all morning. Sucks for the newbs though. That 500k implant on day 2 really helped me along.
Gadfly Hawke G-Tek Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2006.08.23 16:06:00 - [12] It seems that there are numerous level 4 players who run only courier missions. This must be a very negative development for them, if they're going to have to refuse every mission now. Ah well, we've been hearing that CCP doesn't like mission runners. Now I guess we know for sure. G-Tek is recruiting

Skellibjalla	Posted - 2006.08.23 17:32:00 - [13] We are sorry but we HAD to do this because of code changes that could not wait Apologies for the inconvenience (especially the implant-thingy, which we should have been compensated for in this patch). But the flipside is that what what the New Player Experience will bring you instead in Kali (spread throughout the patches in the Path to Kali touched on in this brand new Gamespy Review shamelessly plugged here by) me will be SO MUCH BETTER THAT YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE YOUR EYES!! Please bear with us. We love you all

Kartush	Posted - 2006.08.23 18:21:00 - [14] Originally by: Skellibjalla Edited by: Skellibjalla on 23/08/2006 17:46:12 We are sorry but we HAD to do this because of code changes that could not wait Apologies for the inconvenience (especially the implant-thingy, which we should have been compensated for in this patch). But the flipside is that what what the New Player Experience will bring you instead in Kali (spread throughout the patches in the Path to Kali touched on in this brand new Gamespy Review shamelessly plugged here by me) will be SO MUCH BETTER THAT YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE YOUR EYES!! Please bear with us. We love you all Oh, god, no... New Player Experience is awfully close to New Game Experience. Any refugees from Star Wars: Galaxies knows what I am talking about.
Maketa	Posted - 2006.08.23 18:37:00 - [15] I'm very ****ed off now , when are they coming back the couriermissions because i have some agents with 40 k lp and i want offers and killmissions are not the thingy for me , so i demand a timespam when they will be back and not a vage explenation of when kali is there it comes back , give me time and dates when they are returning !!!!!
Eagle32	Posted - 2006.08.23 18:47:00 - [16] Originally by: Kartush Any refugees from Star Wars: Galaxies knows what I am talking about. I prefer not to remember the Dark days of "that" game.
Siri Blue Gallente Eve University	Posted - 2006.08.23 18:52:00 - [17] To add a few BASIC lame courier missions as a temporary bridging until the new content is ready should cost a capable dev a few minutes...take the lvl 4 insane industrialist missions that is still in game, modify the cargo and the rewards a few times and put those in for each level until you have the new content ready and voila! A temporary solution! But linking courier agents to combat missions instead is just lame!
rodgerd Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.08.23 19:16:00 - [18] Originally by: Lurtz Originally by: Fubear So basically, new players are stuck with 5000ISK, a newbie ship, and only combat missions to get them started in Eve? well they could mine like I did early on.... Since all the skill books appear to have had an across-the-board price increase (even for the basic Learning ones), they'll be mining longer that you did, too.
rodgerd Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.08.23 19:17:00 - [19] Originally by: Skellibjalla Edited by: Skellibjalla on 23/08/2006 17:46:12 We are sorry but we HAD to do this because of code changes that could not wait Apologies for the inconvenience (especially the implant-thingy, which we should have been compensated for in this patch). But the flipside is that what what the New Player Experience will bring you instead in Kali (spread throughout the patches in the Path to Kali touched on in this brand new Gamespy Review shamelessly plugged here by me) will be SO MUCH BETTER THAT YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE YOUR EYES!! Please bear with us. We love you all Great. I'll be happy to advise any potential new customers to wait the 1 to 6 months until you deliver the relevant bits of Kali before bothering with the game.
Linerra Tedora Criss Cross	Posted - 2006.08.23 19:41:00 - [20] oh no.. not another "new player experience" (that was the true death of SWG....) anyways.. it's all good that you guys say that it returns in kali... but as kali will be delivered over a very extended time, we will really need a specific date on when we will get our play content back. and as someone stated... just modify the lvl 4 courier mission to lvl 3, lvl 2 and lvl 1... so we at least have that one option... drop the kill missions on our courier agents... EvE-CCG Spoiler Database
shaolinp	Posted - 2006.08.23 19:53:00 - [21] well for me i do alot of courier missions. what bothers me most is that if they take them all away both the money we've spent for those advanced skillbooks (the ones ya get at 15k lp) will now be trash?? i bought mine way back at what 400mil each, not to mention the time spent on training them up. i hope that's not time and isk thrown in the garbage. same for new skills when they come out. sure hope they dont nerf a current set of skills and make me spend months training it back to the level that i was at the day before the "new" skills (missiles, ew, etc) oh btw, grats on 140,000 active users. not sure what that means but i;ve only seen at max 137,312 users online at 1 time ;)
Del Kerrin	Posted - 2006.08.23 20:55:00 - [22] Hi. I am one of the potential new subscribers screwed by this change. I just signed up for my trial yesterday. Imagine my surprise -- and bad luck -- to find out that the bulk of my newbie missions are gone, along with a fairly notable reward at the end. (Or so I'm told.) I've no interest to learn the game by being forced to do combat or go mining; part of what people have been telling me is so great about Eve is the open playstyle. Now a style of play is being FORCED upon me. A message for the devs as well, is no matter how quickly you plan to put courier missions back in, it won't be fast enough. Will you have them back in 13 days? I doubt it. That means that I -- and several other people trying out the game -- won't ever see them. Consider how that might affect our decision to pick up the game full time. For my part I'm very disappointed and this has colored my impressions of Eve in a very negative way.
Hawkeye Orlando Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.23 21:02:00 - [23] New Player Experience eh? What about the new alt experience? Someone creating an alt to explore other options of the game play need those starter missions. Not so much for the ISK because you can give said alt money to do stuff, but the faction standing boost you get after completing mission 8 was very important to be able to gain access to better quality agents starting out. I know quite a few people now that are having to update their newbie help info that they have in their bios now because of the lack of the starter storyline missions. And I guess I too shall be more cautious in recomending EVE to friends right now if I know that by starting a new character they're going to be seriously screwed by not being able to do the starter missions that help people get a feel for mission running and getting standing increases.
Kappa Sama	Posted - 2006.08.23 22:04:00 - [24] Edited by: Kappa Sama on 23/08/2006 22:13:03 Edit: site is slow, sent two posts.
Kappa Sama	Posted - 2006.08.23 22:04:00 - [25] Edited by: Kappa Sama on 23/08/2006 22:15:54 Edit: see below post, site is dragging = posted twice
Miss Overlord	Posted - 2006.08.23 22:44:00 - [26] mmm yeah and stll no offical response as to when they will be back only thing i can suggest is speed up kali to SISI and allow the slated courier runners to get in there and give the new ones a good test.
Rumbaar Solitary Forsaken	Posted - 2006.08.23 23:29:00 - [27] OMG I didn't even think of the start-up courier mission for new players. Talk about totally pwning any new player before they even get through the first day of 14-day trial. Clap Clap on that one.... How can you slap new players even more in the face, like the fact they'll never have T2 BPO's, and expect them to continue to enjoy and signup for the game. Are you going for the "They don't know so wont care" style of game design. Of the 28k player that are in game I wonder how many will just not be able to play or care to play after this one. With no newbies in game what are the greifer, pirates or just plain PvPer going to do now :) I hope this action really put a major ripple in the whole of EVE just to see how un-thoughtful it seems to have been. Looking for custom banners? click above, Feedback section.
Pett Brenson Gallente Gallente Venture Inc	Posted - 2006.08.23 23:48:00 - [28] Edited by: Pett Brenson on 23/08/2006 23:52:26 Originally by: Skellibjalla Edited by: Skellibjalla on 23/08/2006 17:46:12 We are sorry but we HAD to do this because of code changes that could not wait Apologies for the inconvenience (especially the implant-thingy, which we should have been compensated for in this patch). But the flipside is that what what the New Player Experience will bring you instead in Kali (spread throughout the patches in the Path to Kali touched on in this brand new Gamespy Review shamelessly plugged here by me) will be SO MUCH BETTER THAT YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE YOUR EYES!! Please bear with us. We love you all I have "beared" with you for three years now. For three years reverse engineering has been promised and never been forth coming, among many other features, why should I now believe that you are going to "deliver" on what you promise when your past history shows that you don't. What is in front of me that I can see is that you have nerfed the one aspect of the game that I could depend on and enjoy, with NO promised time frame for when or IF it is actually going to be re-implemented. Words are cheap action speaks volumes. So far I don't like what your actions are saying. There are no limitions for the creative mind. What others see as limits are nothing but special tools in their hands.
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2006.08.23 23:59:00 - [29] Originally by: Skellibjalla Edited by: Skellibjalla on 23/08/2006 17:46:12 We are sorry but we HAD to do this because of code changes that could not wait Apologies for the inconvenience (especially the implant-thingy, which we should have been compensated for in this patch). But the flipside is that what what the New Player Experience will bring you instead in Kali (spread throughout the patches in the Path to Kali touched on in this brand new Gamespy Review shamelessly plugged here by me) will be SO MUCH BETTER THAT YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE YOUR EYES!! Please bear with us. We love you all It's ok, I forgive you Just please, when you are makeing the new courier missions, make them without a drop of combat. Combat is not everybody's idea of fun. Also calling it "New Player Experiance" has kind of a bad SWG vibe to it. can't you find a better name ?
Delra	Posted - 2006.08.24 02:33:00 - [30] The standing gain from those first mission are realy important with out them u have to start with lvl -17 agents >_<
Digitalfox Central Defiance	Posted - 2006.08.24 05:47:00 - [31] So, since all of you will be obviosly quiting, can I have your stuff?
Tyler Lowe Minmatar DROW Org Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.24 06:44:00 - [32] "New Player Experience" is a really unfortunate phrase that brings up some extremely bad memories. It's way too close to New Game Experience for comfort. Back on topic, perhaps new players should have their standing bumped up a couple of notches with the corp they start with until Kali is released. That really won't help the people that have until now run courier missions for income, but it would help new players by giving them a wider selection of agents to start with, and a small boost in income at the outset. J.A.F.O.
Hawkeye Orlando Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.24 07:45:00 - [33] Well, with the NPC corp they are a member of wouldn't help super lots ... but maybe for the short term start out new players with a 1.00 standing in their faction ... which is basically the same standing they would have after completing the starter storyline missions anyways. Something has to be done ... the ISK beggars are coming out of the woodworks ... and my block list is growing. :\
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2006.08.24 08:04:00 - [34] Originally by: Skellibjalla Edited by: Skellibjalla on 23/08/2006 17:46:12 We are sorry but we HAD to do this because of code changes that could not wait Apologies for the inconvenience (especially the implant-thingy, which we should have been compensated for in this patch). But the flipside is that what what the New Player Experience will bring you instead in Kali (spread throughout the patches in the Path to Kali touched on in this brand new Gamespy Review shamelessly plugged here by me) will be SO MUCH BETTER THAT YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE YOUR EYES!! Please bear with us. We love you all Promises, promises... but exciting, I agree. However, it does not help at all with the current problem. In that article is nothing about courier missions, especially no answer to the most urgent question we all have: WHEN WILL THEY COME BACK? I haven't seen anything other then Soon(TM) or "Kali". Would any Dev be able and willing and give some more substantial information about that? I believe that quite some players would like to know whether to extend their soon running out subscription, or better keep this char on the back burner with a very longterm skill. Juwi Kotch
Ossi Black	Posted - 2006.08.24 08:32:00 - [35] I just joined a couple of days ago, and it¦s been twitchy with patch-day and now this. Then the new price on standard skills seems high too. Guess you have to work a bit harder now, I¦ll hump asteroids for a while and see if it¦s enough pay off. That article is very interesting too.

Zrakor	Posted - 2006.08.24 08:41:00 - [36] Originally by: Juwi Kotch Originally by: Skellibjalla Edited by: Skellibjalla on 23/08/2006 17:46:12 We are sorry but we HAD to do this because of code changes that could not wait Apologies for the inconvenience (especially the implant-thingy, which we should have been compensated for in this patch). But the flipside is that what what the New Player Experience will bring you instead in Kali (spread throughout the patches in the Path to Kali touched on in this brand new Gamespy Review shamelessly plugged here by me) will be SO MUCH BETTER THAT YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE YOUR EYES!! Please bear with us. We love you all Promises, promises... but exciting, I agree. However, it does not help at all with the current problem. In that article is nothing about courier missions, especially no answer to the most urgent question we all have: WHEN WILL THEY COME BACK? I haven't seen anything other then Soon(TM) or "Kali". Would any Dev be able and willing and give some more substantial information about that? I believe that quite some players would like to know whether to extend their soon running out subscription, or better keep this char on the back burner with a very longterm skill. Juwi Kotch We are contemplating having a hotpatch on tuesday to add in a batch of courier missions. No promises until we've thoroughly tested it though. About the 'newbie implant mission sequence', that will be replaced in Kali by a large amount of missions called 'Rookie Cosmos', as well as the 'New Bloodline Newbie Missions' which will offer an implant reward. Obviously I would have preferred that the old newbie courier missions would have stayed in until Kali, but a massive code overhaul in the 'dragon' patch forced us to remove those missions now.

Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.24 08:44:00 - [37] Originally by: Del Kerrin Will you have them back in 13 days? I doubt it. That means that I -- and several other people trying out the game -- won't ever see them. Consider how that might affect our decision to pick up the game full time. I have no axe to grind, I do my kill missions and I'm very happy with them...but you shoudl LISTEN to this guy, he makes a very valid point...in the 13 day window that is the trial, a large part of "what to do in EVE" has just disappeared. --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
Serenity Winterfyre	Posted - 2006.08.24 09:05:00 - [38] Well here is my 2'cents on this. I am 3 days into my trial. I consider myself lucky though to have played this game twice before though for short periods of time since 04' before though so I am roughly aware of basic machanics before I am considering starting up here again. I started the trial on patch day... and I'll I gotta say is "oops" I think I should have rethought that one. But anyways, those newbie missions were very vital to my learning experience and if I had not played this game in the distant past and not remembered the very basics then I would totaly be screwed. As it was I had to ask ALOT of questions on the rookie help channel and search for a decent agent that I could actually use. When I started off I was really relying on those newbie courier missions to get this character's feet off the ground and there were not there so I adapted, however, my point is not everyone is going to do this. Most people would get frustrated and quit with how hard it is to learn this game in the first place. You have to admit this game has the steepest learning curve I have seen for a MMO. Seriously, compared to WoW or any other game... also SwG(The person with the SWG NGE quote I feel you on that one lol though I quit SWG when they made it look like fuggin WoW with the Combat Upgrade) but basically to boil it down: (1) Those newbie courier missions are 75% of the learning experience for the beginning player on the basic game mechanics. Its one thing to have a damn robot voice telling you all this but when you actually go out and do the missions thats where you will learn! (2) Early easy cash flow is gone. simple. (3) Frustration over the damn NPC that is still there, but says its not a fugging agent! I submitted a petition about this btw and got a standard wait it out response. Overall: Am I going to be comming back? Yeah.. I am because WoW sucks and there are no decent games anymore and no matter how much you guys mess up you can never beat SOE and I actually love this game thats why I keep comming back lol. Anyways cya all out in space! =) ~Serenity Winterfyre ps. feel free to flame away if you so wish lol
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2006.08.24 09:29:00 - [39] Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 24/08/2006 08:47:36We are contemplating having a hotpatch on tuesday to add in a batch of courier missions. No promises until we've thoroughly tested it though. About the 'newbie implant mission sequence', that will be replaced in Kali by a large amount of missions called 'Rookie Cosmos', as well as the 'New Bloodline Newbie Missions' which will offer an implant reward. Also the 'copper tag' agents will be back, along with agents for most of the common pirate tags. Ok, looks like we are talking about anything between one to probably three weeks before courier missions - or at least some - are back. And please, make them as reliably as before, meaning that there are some agent profession departments giving out virtually exclusively courier missions. It won't help much, when suddenly all agents across the board would hand out let's say 10% courier missions. Or all former courier mission agents would hand out 60% courier missions and 40% kill missions, or things like that. With regard to the newbie courier missions, it looks like they need to wait until Kali - whenever this will come, and in whatever expansion patch of the announced three it will be included in. Juwi Kotch
Linerra Tedora Criss Cross	Posted - 2006.08.24 09:59:00 - [40] Originally by: Zrakor We are contemplating having a hotpatch on tuesday to add in a batch of courier missions. No promises until we've thoroughly tested it though. About the 'newbie implant mission sequence', that will be replaced in Kali by a large amount of missions called 'Rookie Cosmos', as well as the 'New Bloodline Newbie Missions' which will offer an implant reward. Also the 'copper tag' agents will be back, along with agents for most of the common pirate tags. Obviously I would have preferred that the old newbie courier missions would have stayed in until Kali, but a massive code overhaul in the 'dragon' patch forced us to remove those missions now. ahh thank you for your kind words... that is all we needed to hear. But would have been nice if you could have said that before we had been worrying our minds for 2 days.. grins anyways, now we know what to wait for... thank you.. EvE-CCG Spoiler Database
PhamNuwen Caldari Bungee Jumper	Posted - 2006.08.24 11:09:00 - [41] Edited by: PhamNuwen on 24/08/2006 11:11:55 Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 24/08/2006 08:47:36 ...welcome back... Nic to see you again after a long, long time - will we get now more progress? Or at least SOME MORE informations about future/progress/balance. Thx. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=lastposts&cid=144507256 --- Last 15 Posts - Edited by: Zrakor on 24/08/2006 08:47:36 Please bear with us. We love you all Promises, promises. ... 24/08/2006 08:41:00 - Please read my second post . There are a few versions of Worlds Collide level 4 out there, and only ... 13/06/2006 09:22:00 - At first they could remove all tag hunt offers from the game. Noone is using those because they ar ... 12/06/2006 10:24:00 ---

Zrakor	Posted - 2006.08.24 11:48:00 - [42] Originally by: PhamNuwen Edited by: PhamNuwen on 24/08/2006 11:11:55 Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 24/08/2006 08:47:36 ...welcome back... Nic to see you again after a long, long time - will we get now more progress? Or at least SOME MORE informations about future/progress/balance. Thx. --- There is a lot planned for PVE in Kali. 0.0 COSMOS, by far the toughest missions yet, this has been completed and is currently in testing. Rookie COSMOS and bloodline missions add to the newbie PVE experience. And of course professions sites. And Gas cloud harvesting in 0.0 COSMOS which will introduce the manufacturing of boosters! And last but not least, exploration locations are coming in for all skill levels (noob to advanced players), which will introduce the 'escalating path' system.

R Grainger	Posted - 2006.08.24 11:56:00 - [43] Yep, Kali sounds great. But I have to say the cutout of courier missions altogether just has too strong a whiff of SOE/SWG. This has been my first bad impression of how EVE has been handled. Hope it's the last. SWG Refugee
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2006.08.24 11:58:00 - [44] Originally by: Zrakor Originally by: PhamNuwen Edited by: PhamNuwen on 24/08/2006 11:11:55 Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 24/08/2006 08:47:36 ...welcome back... Nic to see you again after a long, long time - will we get now more progress? Or at least SOME MORE informations about future/progress/balance. Thx. --- There is a lot planned for PVE in Kali. 0.0 COSMOS, by far the toughest missions yet, this has been completed and is currently in testing. Rookie COSMOS and bloodline missions add to the newbie PVE experience. And of course professions sites. And Gas cloud harvesting in 0.0 COSMOS which will introduce the manufacturing of boosters! And last but not least, exploration locations are coming in for all skill levels (noob to advanced players), which will introduce the 'escalating path' system. Sounds really great, one question though: will we ever get lvl 5 courier missions only soloable via freighter?
Lemoning Lemming	Posted - 2006.08.24 12:10:00 - [45] I appreciate the dev responses in this thread. However you have not explained what people who ran these missions are supposed to do between now and the eventual appearance of all this jam tommorrow stuff you are promising in Kali for which we have no firm date. You have to accept that you can't just arbitrarily remove the portion of the game people play and then expect them to keep paying subs while they wait for some future release that will allow them to play again. You need to say exactly when this will be sorted out not some vague promise, as that does not cut it. Otherwise re-instate the features you removed. And next time how about notifying people a little further in advance so they have time to get used to the idea that they have to radically change their playstyle, ie I'm a researcher / builder and don't do combat, but now I going to have to. In my opinion.
Phizuol	Posted - 2006.08.24 14:15:00 - [46] That same Gamespy article plugged above is why I decided to take the 14 day free trial. Now I am left scratching my head as my first post-tutorial mission leaves me defeated quite handily. Too bad I had to put down a deposit to accept it. =) Sounds like maybe I picked a wrong time to try things out.
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.08.24 14:59:00 - [47] Originally by: Gamer4liff Originally by: Zrakor Originally by: PhamNuwen Edited by: PhamNuwen on 24/08/2006 11:11:55 Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 24/08/2006 08:47:36 ...welcome back... Nic to see you again after a long, long time - will we get now more progress? Or at least SOME MORE informations about future/progress/balance. Thx. --- There is a lot planned for PVE in Kali. 0.0 COSMOS, by far the toughest missions yet, this has been completed and is currently in testing. Rookie COSMOS and bloodline missions add to the newbie PVE experience. And of course professions sites. And Gas cloud harvesting in 0.0 COSMOS which will introduce the manufacturing of boosters! And last but not least, exploration locations are coming in for all skill levels (noob to advanced players), which will introduce the 'escalating path' system. Sounds really great, one question though: will we ever get lvl 5 courier missions only soloable via freighter? Not even remotely great Look again, 90% of these shiney new pve toys are in <Drum Roll> 0.0. Whats feking pve about that? 0.0 cosmos is going be a pvp hotzone of epic proportions as alliances battle over ownership (and thus monopoly of) the new booster materials (the pvp is not a BAD thing as such, it's just not the pve stuff you may be looking for..and is another example of CCP giving content exclusively to 0.0 alliances)
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.08.24 15:35:00 - [48] Originally by: Lemoning Lemming I appreciate the dev responses in this thread. However you have not explained what people who ran these missions are supposed to do between now and the eventual appearance of all this jam tommorrow stuff you are promising in Kali for which we have no firm date. You have to accept that you can't just arbitrarily remove the portion of the game people play and then expect them to keep paying subs while they wait for some future release that will allow them to play again. You need to say exactly when this will be sorted out not some vague promise, as that does not cut it. Otherwise re-instate the features you removed. And next time how about notifying people a little further in advance so they have time to get used to the idea that they have to radically change their playstyle, ie I'm a researcher / builder and don't do combat, but now I going to have to. In my opinion. You forget, EVE was created by PVPers for PVPers, pve content is included to get subscribers so salaries can be paid, and fun can be had. CCP will, do and can arbitarily remove/change stuff, its unlikely to have a major impact on subscriptions. Why should they be overly concerned, it's not as if they have been to date, is it?
Angry Dan Caldari Widowmakers Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2006.08.24 16:48:00 - [49] Originally by: Zrakor Originally by: PhamNuwen Edited by: PhamNuwen on 24/08/2006 11:11:55 Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 24/08/2006 08:47:36 ...welcome back... Nic to see you again after a long, long time - will we get now more progress? Or at least SOME MORE informations about future/progress/balance. Thx. --- There is a lot planned for PVE in Kali. 0.0 COSMOS, by far the toughest missions yet, this has been completed and is currently in testing. Rookie COSMOS and bloodline missions add to the newbie PVE experience. And of course professions sites. And Gas cloud harvesting in 0.0 COSMOS which will introduce the manufacturing of boosters! And last but not least, exploration locations are coming in for all skill levels (noob to advanced players), which will introduce the 'escalating path' system. Anyone remember Comets? (they were promised with Exodus). Jam tomorrow is all well and good, but it helps if you don't steal the scones first. Thanks for letting us know the timescale. That is what most people ahve been screaming for. ++++++++++++++++++++ Founder member of the Huzzah Federation. Remember, the grass is greener on our side of the fence Widowmakers director Fear my kneepads of allure!
Vasiliyan PAX Interstellar Services Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.24 16:49:00 - [50] Originally by: Skellibjalla New Player Experience Worst. Name. Ever. You MUST read the reasons why the majority of the playerbase quit SWG after the New Game Experience. There's even a thread on it on these forums somewhere.
Albar Gray Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.24 16:56:00 - [51] Edited by: Albar Gray on 24/08/2006 16:57:33 Great to hear from you Zarakor, and thx for the news. Quote: You forget, EVE was created by PVPers for PVPers, pve content is included to get subscribers so salaries can be paid, and fun can be had. CCP will, do and can arbitarily remove/change stuff, its unlikely to have a major impact on subscriptions. Why should they be overly concerned, it's not as if they have been to date, is it? Compared to the feedback and information given out on "City of Heroes", the information, feedback and general feeling that CCP may actually hear you once in a while is massive. Relatively, Cryptic suck big time. . . -------------------------------------------------- Making the finest ships for Gods chosen
Anemus Thuella	Posted - 2006.08.24 17:33:00 - [52] I don't understand the lvl4 mission runners tbh. If you have a char capable of that you should be out killing stuff i.m.o. Now taking away the newbie missions leaving them with 5000isk and a reaper now that is rough. Atleast when I started 18 days ago, I got enough money from the get go to buy a Rifter and start shooting things. Can't imagine what it would be like to mine veldspar with a basic miner until you got a rifter (200k-250k) and could actually start to shoot stuff up. Even the belt-rats in veldspar regions would force your reaper with that basic gatling-thing to do repairs. My guess it wouldn't be fun at all.
LUC1FER666 Gallente Scotland Inc	Posted - 2006.08.24 17:42:00 - [53] not everyone likes killing NPC's and its a nice easy safe way to make cash, get standing's for clones, ect. Please bring them back.
Pett Brenson Gallente Gallente Venture Inc	Posted - 2006.08.24 18:02:00 - [54] Edited by: Pett Brenson on 24/08/2006 18:04:14 Originally by: Matori Kar You forget, EVE was created by PVPers for PVPers, pve content is included to get subscribers so salaries can be paid, and fun can be had. CCP will, do and can arbitarily remove/change stuff, its unlikely to have a major impact on subscriptions. Why should they be overly concerned, it's not as if they have been to date, is it? Actually PvP wasn't possible when EVE launched, everything was PvE. If you attacked another player Concord was all over you in all systems even the lower sec systems. PvP eventually came in through a series of patches during the first year I don't remember the exact time frame. Back on topic I flew an new alt (a Jin) yesterday through the tutorial and had one kill & several courier missions. Was able to able to get enough cash to purchase and equip two frigs, one for combat and one for mining, no implant mission though. It would appear that, at least in Essence, the tutorial missions were either not nerfed or have been fixed. There are no limitions for the creative mind. What others see as limits are nothing but special tools in their hands.
Ohmy Fugod	Posted - 2006.08.24 18:25:00 - [55] Edited by: Ohmy Fugod on 24/08/2006 18:31:33 Originally by: Matori Kar You forget, EVE was created by PVPers for PVPers, pve content is included to get subscribers so salaries can be paid, and fun can be had. CCP will, do and can arbitarily remove/change stuff, its unlikely to have a major impact on subscriptions. Why should they be overly concerned, it's not as if they have been to date, is it? Well there's quite a problem here, often caused by shortsightness of the situation at hand. If you press F10, you'll notice that well over 75% (and I'd even dare to say 90%) of the players reside in Empire. So, obviously more people chose to go the PVE way rather than the PVP one, in spite of the developers initial plans, and even with the (as of now) still primitive mission system Eve has. Thus, as we can see, those subscriptions not only pay for salaries, but are actually the ones that keep the game alive. That's why a PVE nerf wouldn't, I'd humbly state, precisely help CCP finances-wise, should they really choose to do it. Simply put, people don't want, nor like, to do things they don't feel like, even more when you're talking about a game. And trying to push PVE enthusiasts into PVP with such maneouvers isn't something I feel, or see, regarded as a "We care for you!" move from the developers. So the previous poster was right, no one's gonna step into 0.0 to do those missions unless they're already into a corp or alliance powerful enough to hold it's own where they are, and said alliances will have a green light to run or farm said missions, complexes or resources ad infinitum. Moreover, no one can run missions effectively with a PVP ship, and no one wants to risk their very expensive PVE ships in low sec, unless you got protection from your corp or alliance, or the risk vs reward ratio becomes outrageous in comparison with the Empire one. Which of course, won't happen, simply because of what I typed above. So well, the best idea they could go ahead with, I believe, is to simply not forget to introduce content for Empire space as well, and to not to nerf it either. Oh and regarding the forthcoming tutorials, there's a big difference between "New Player Experience" and "New Game Experience". The former refers to something that modifies how new players enjoy the game, while the latter talks about a whole game change, which is indeed what buried SWG. Well but if folks still believe they're the same thing because they rhyme, then of course, please don't promote EVE with such a tagline... lol And back on topic, if they're putting back some basic couriers for newbies on next Tues, then great idea, hope it does help the player base keep growing and mitigates this week's damage as most as possible :-) Cheers -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ *Quod Natura non da, Salamantica non praesta*
Del Kerrin	Posted - 2006.08.24 19:15:00 - [56] Edited by: Del Kerrin on 24/08/2006 19:15:28 Originally by: Linerra Tedora ahh thank you for your kind words... that is all we needed to hear. But would have been nice if you could have said that before we had been worrying our minds for 2 days.. grins anyways, now we know what to wait for... thank you.. No, sorry...not good enough. I've got ten days left. They're "considering" hot-patching them back in, not that they're going to do it. A WORLD of difference. Waiting for the Next Big Patch (TM) doesn't help me -- or the other 2K trial accounts logged in right now -- AT ALL. I'm baffled as to why they'd just cut us off (the newbies) and leave us hanging out to dry.
Del Kerrin	Posted - 2006.08.24 19:17:00 - [57] Originally by: Lemoning Lemming I appreciate the dev responses in this thread. However you have not explained what people who ran these missions are supposed to do between now and the eventual appearance of all this jam tommorrow stuff you are promising in Kali for which we have no firm date. You have to accept that you can't just arbitrarily remove the portion of the game people play and then expect them to keep paying subs while they wait for some future release that will allow them to play again. You need to say exactly when this will be sorted out not some vague promise, as that does not cut it. Otherwise re-instate the features you removed. Exactly.
Sovelis	Posted - 2006.08.24 19:38:00 - [58] Hey I know it's OT but having never played SWG can some one explain the references to New Gaming Experience?
Risa Brimstone	Posted - 2006.08.24 20:49:00 - [59] Originally by: Zrakor There is a lot planned for PVE in Kali. 0.0 COSMOS, by far the toughest missions yet, this has been completed and is currently in testing. You do know saying PvE and putting in 0.0 is contradictory right? By diffinition 0.0 includes PvP, even if it is just getting to the mission.
Risa Brimstone	Posted - 2006.08.24 20:53:00 - [60] Originally by: Sovelis Hey I know it's OT but having never played SWG can some one explain the references to New Gaming Experience? The SWG New Gaming Experience basicly took the advancement system, deleted it, and put in a new, less flexable one. Oh, and it let everyone be a Jedi, no more unlocking it and therefore flooding the game with Jedi.

Zrakor	Posted - 2006.08.25 00:12:00 - [61] Originally by: Risa Brimstone Originally by: Zrakor There is a lot planned for PVE in Kali. 0.0 COSMOS, by far the toughest missions yet, this has been completed and is currently in testing. You do know saying PvE and putting in 0.0 is contradictory right? By diffinition 0.0 includes PvP, even if it is just getting to the mission. Technically any zone in the game can include pvp. Running missions and complexes is a PVE activity though by definition. But obviously they will be difficult to run in 0.0 unless you have plenty of backup due to the threat of pvp.

Rinaldo Titano	Posted - 2006.08.25 00:36:00 - [62] Edited by: Rinaldo Titano on 25/08/2006 00:37:28 Ive read somewhere now that theres a patch coming on Thursday is it.? This will be bringing in some courier missions.? Will this be a tutorial patch..Include more than than just the tutorial courier set.? Can we get this confirmed. And if this is indeed the case CCP deserves a big thank you for a great play experience and listening to its players. ps: CCP you can drop that 500m ISK in the before mentioned secure container. I dont want to see any CONCORD when I show up to get it. Muhaha !!
Mika Zimmer Gallente Renyn Supply Company	Posted - 2006.08.25 01:45:00 - [63] Originally by: Matori Kar You forget, EVE was created by PVPers for PVPers, pve content is included to get subscribers so salaries can be paid, and fun can be had. CCP will, do and can arbitarily remove/change stuff, its unlikely to have a major impact on subscriptions. Why should they be overly concerned, it's not as if they have been to date, is it? If EVE was made for PVP'er then why does fleet combat suck (lag) so bad?
Kathild	Posted - 2006.08.25 01:49:00 - [64] Edited by: Kathild on 25/08/2006 01:51:12 What do u think your doing CCP? Now i'm not really a newb I have been playing for a little more than a year and its a great game. I use to hunt in 0.0 which is some of the best isk ever. But I would loose my ship sometimes and I wouldn't have enough isk to get a new one and keep ratting. So I would go do my courrier missions to get a bit of cash. I was working on getting my lvl 4 courrier agents when I found out every mission i did was a kill mission which I did not have the ship for. SO GREAT now i'm stuck with no where to turn. I don't have any mining skills and I don't have enough isk to rat. Guess i'll just have to wait until they put them back in. IF CCP DOESN'T BRING THE COURRIER MISSIONS BACK I'M FOR SURE LEAVING THE GAME
Sylper Illysten	Posted - 2006.08.25 02:22:00 - [65] Originally by: Zrakor Technically any zone in the game can include pvp. Running missions and complexes is a PVE activity though by definition. But obviously they will be difficult to run in 0.0 unless you have plenty of backup due to the threat of pvp. Ergo, large alliances/corps will own all the new content, anyone who isn't a) in a large alliance/corp or b) doesn't like the idea of being randomly ganked by 12 year old mentalities (ooh I'm so good a group of 10 oif us just blew a pve ship out of the sky while he was fighting from npc's then we scrambled his pod for an hour made him pay us a huge ransom and podded him for the hell of it what fun). New content in 0.0 is worth exactly 0.0 to myself and any other player in the above situations.
Guillame Herschel Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.25 02:38:00 - [66] Originally by: Mika Zimmer If EVE was made for PVP'er then why does fleet combat suck (lag) so bad? He said PVP not BVB.
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2006.08.25 03:10:00 - [67] Edited by: Gamer4liff on 25/08/2006 03:12:22 Originally by: Zrakor Originally by: Risa Brimstone Originally by: Zrakor There is a lot planned for PVE in Kali. 0.0 COSMOS, by far the toughest missions yet, this has been completed and is currently in testing. You do know saying PvE and putting in 0.0 is contradictory right? By diffinition 0.0 includes PvP, even if it is just getting to the mission. Technically any zone in the game can include pvp. Running missions and complexes is a PVE activity though by definition. But obviously they will be difficult to run in 0.0 unless you have plenty of backup due to the threat of pvp. Well still, just make sure some awesome new content(TM) makes it into empire, if not only lowsec. Originally by: Kathild IF CCP DOESN'T BRING THE COURRIER MISSIONS BACK I'M FOR SURE LEAVING THE GAME Jesus christ, calm down. They said there would be a patch on teusday putting them back in and that sounds pretty concrete to me.
rodgerd Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.08.25 03:58:00 - [68] Originally by: Zrakor We are contemplating having a hotpatch on tuesday to add in a batch of courier missions. No promises until we've thoroughly tested it though. Good news.
rodgerd Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.08.25 04:01:00 - [69] Originally by: Sylper Illysten Originally by: Zrakor Technically any zone in the game can include pvp. Running missions and complexes is a PVE activity though by definition. But obviously they will be difficult to run in 0.0 unless you have plenty of backup due to the threat of pvp. Ergo, large alliances/corps will own all the new content, anyone who isn't a) in a large alliance/corp or b) doesn't like the idea of being randomly ganked by 12 year old mentalities (ooh I'm so good a group of 10 oif us just blew a pve ship out of the sky while he was fighting from npc's then we scrambled his pod for an hour made him pay us a huge ransom and podded him for the hell of it what fun). New content in 0.0 is worth exactly 0.0 to myself and any other player in the above situations. New content at all the sec levels, the man said. You don't have to do 0.0 missions - which already exist - any more than miners have to mine 0.0 ores.
Roddic Gallente The Blood Roses	Posted - 2006.08.25 04:28:00 - [70] Originally by: Matori Kar You forget, EVE was created by PVPers for PVPers, pve content is included to get subscribers so salaries can be paid, and fun can be had. CCP will, do and can arbitarily remove/change stuff, its unlikely to have a major impact on subscriptions. Why should they be overly concerned, it's not as if they have been to date, is it? that dosn't sound quite right, PvE environment was set up to encourage carebares to join so beginning PvP'rs would have something to shoot that didn't shoot back.
Shadarle	Posted - 2006.08.25 08:17:00 - [71] I never did any courier missions or the tutorial and I did just fine. Those starter deadspace areas in the system you start in are the best money you'll make for a long time. You can make several million a day in those things... most people don't realize how much money you can make looting all that stuff. I found lots of 50-100k items and a few 300k+ items in those things.
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.25 08:34:00 - [72] Originally by: Zrakor Technically any zone in the game can include pvp. Running missions and complexes is a PVE activity though by definition. But obviously they will be difficult to run in 0.0 unless you have plenty of backup due to the threat of pvp. I love the way you just casually drop that in there: "due to the threat of PVP". I know this is your game guys, but sometimes I think you don't play it that much. You drop a profitable mission/deadspace/asteroid belt out in 0.0 and PVP isn't a threat, it's a CERTAINTY. And that puts it out of reach of anyone who can't get together a reasonable force. --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
Brazero Amarr Noble House	Posted - 2006.08.25 08:43:00 - [73] To all the new ppl complaining here, those noob courier missions with implant reward are not all that old. I'm pretty sure they came with RMR. Ppl managed to get started before those missions you know. Why don't you just mine a little for starters, you make some isk and have the time to train the skills needed. And as for the new 0.0 PvE content, that must be the most lame and frustrating idea I ever heard of. Really nice work on that one. **********
Hawkeye Orlando Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.25 09:20:00 - [74] Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 24/08/2006 08:47:36 Originally by: Juwi Kotch Please bear with us. We love you all Promises, promises... but exciting, I agree. However, it does not help at all with the current problem. In that article is nothing about courier missions, especially no answer to the most urgent question we all have: WHEN WILL THEY COME BACK? I haven't seen anything other then Soon(TM) or "Kali". Would any Dev be able and willing and give some more substantial information about that? I believe that quite some players would like to know whether to extend their soon running out subscription, or better keep this char on the back burner with a very longterm skill. Juwi Kotch We are contemplating having a hotpatch on tuesday to add in a batch of courier missions. No promises until we've thoroughly tested it though. About the 'newbie implant mission sequence', that will be replaced in Kali by a large amount of missions called 'Rookie Cosmos', as well as the 'New Bloodline Newbie Missions' which will offer an implant reward. Also the 'copper tag' agents will be back, along with agents for most of the common pirate tags. Obviously I would have preferred that the old newbie courier missions would have stayed in until Kali, but a massive code overhaul in the 'dragon' patch forced us to remove those missions now. So until Kali, I just get to keep telling my friends that they should wait awhile to try out the game? The lack of starter missions right now is going to make a lot of people try the game out, get ****ed when they can't get a better ship, and leave. And as of right now, it has EVE off of my games to recomend to friends because I know now that they won't be able to get the same experience I got when I first started. Kali Kali Kali. Read that a lot these days ... but that's then, this is now. And as of right now, things are "not good."
Anawannon Locar Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.25 11:14:00 - [75] I have to agree with many of the posters here as a new player, we definately need courier missions back as soon as possible. What boggles me is, why didn't CCP foresee this and code in/test the new courier missions together with the Dragon patch so they would've been implemented to the game at the same time? I mean, they knew the code would change, why wait and make a hotfix? New player experience is a critical territory for the game to draw in new players and right now the jump from the main tutorial to the fighting missions is just too much.
Bambi Gallente Existentialist Collective	Posted - 2006.08.25 12:52:00 - [76] Edited by: Bambi on 25/08/2006 12:54:46 Originally by: Fubear So basically, new players are stuck with 5000ISK, a newbie ship, and only combat missions to get them started in Eve? and why not... its a recent addition the nice fat starter bank balance. STart out like the rest of us did way back when, mining veldspar... Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit; Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad. Signature dimensions to big, please keep it under 400x120 - Petwraith
Mothmar Friedsquid	Posted - 2006.08.25 16:36:00 - [77] I left SWG because of bad customer service. It was horrific. "New Player Experience" should be scrapped ASAP. Do not even use that nomenclature among yourselves, because it reminds ME of obliteration of a huge portion of a game I loved. The New Game Experience in SWG was an attempt to make the game more 'mass marketable' and SOE ripped apart the game from the ground up and rebuilt it badly. They removed, for example, the equivalent of ALL SHIP AND EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURE from the game. This was a massive mistake because the people with the most time invested in the game not only slagged it repeatedly, they left. And the reverberations will haunt SOE until it no longer makes games. I'm willing to hand out cash left and right on my noob guild channel, but the mistake you have made is one you should have been very much more careful about. Mothmar Friedsquid. Because SWG sucked and EVE doesn't require my entire life. Recruit me if you're part of a huge guild that rocks and is going to build a titan someday.
Rose Kolodny Gallente Space Invaders	Posted - 2006.08.25 17:43:00 - [78] The amount of whine in this thread is amazing, +1. -- Recruiting Video - Recruiting Thread
Pett Brenson Gallente Gallente Venture Inc	Posted - 2006.08.25 18:50:00 - [79] Originally by: Rose Kolodny The amount of whine in this thread is amazing, +1. Beginning Rant: These types of small minded posts always amaze me. If you are not interested in the discussion DON'T read it. If you had read through through the entire thread (which I doubt) you would see that there have been some very good points made along with valuable additional information recieved regarding the discussion from the Devs. In short if you have nothing of value to add to the discussion, please don't waste our time and yours with this type of tripe. End of Rant There are no limitions for the creative mind. What others see as limits are nothing but special tools in their hands.
Undertaker	Posted - 2006.08.25 18:58:00 - [80] Originally by: Kartush Originally by: Skellibjalla Edited by: Skellibjalla on 23/08/2006 17:46:12 We are sorry but we HAD to do this because of code changes that could not wait Apologies for the inconvenience (especially the implant-thingy, which we should have been compensated for in this patch). But the flipside is that what what the New Player Experience will bring you instead in Kali (spread throughout the patches in the Path to Kali touched on in this brand new Gamespy Review shamelessly plugged here by me) will be SO MUCH BETTER THAT YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE YOUR EYES!! Please bear with us. We love you all Oh, god, no... New Player Experience is awfully close to New Game Experience. Any refugees from Star Wars: Galaxies knows what I am talking about. lol u got that right!!!
Relworp Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2006.08.26 11:17:00 - [81] As a new player who started the game roughly 3 days before the latest patch that removed the starter missions, I belive I can give a unique aspect to the argument. Firstly, my charachter I began with had the opportunity to use the begginer missions, My opinion as far as these missions, is that it's good, and bad, that they were removed. It's good, as They are horrifically dull. Get this, go there, repeat. you do NOT want new players who just slogged through an hour long tutorial to have their first missions require about as much attention as a brick. Hit auto pilot, go afk. These missions really, and truely, gave a horrible "first impression" of the game. The only reason I stuck it out and didn't just uninstall eve off of my machine was due to all the rather intresting aspects of the game that "appeared" to be there, but were glossed over or outright ignored. As far as a new player is concenred, the game implies the only thing you can do is mine, and run couriers. Few people find either activity challenging or stimulating, especially when these missions rarely send you out of 0.8 sec space. I was actually very suprsied when i decided to try agents again (as from my experience with the tutorial, it seemed to indicate that agents were glorified courier services) and got given a combat mission. Post-patch, I decided that my starting stats and skills were really aweful for how i intended to start off eve (electronic warfare and electronics isn't doing you any favours when the best you can pilot is a shuttle, also, 3 perc and 13 cha i found werent good starting attribs for a combat pilot). In any case, I re-rolled to my current charachter, this was post-patch and thus no starting missions. It then became painfully obvious to me how much i needed them. I had no money to train skills, i had no money to buy a new ship - and the kicker - agents wouldn't even talk to me unless their quality was outstandingly low, Makeing cash generation a chore of epic proportions. This is why they are needed, Yes, they may be dull and uninspired, but takeing them out and giving no compensation really makes the starting carreer of new pilots nigh unachievable. Ironically, I solved my moneitary problems by purchasing a full account and using my first charachter as a mission runner, and quickly amased 4 million ISK, which i send to my current one. After a long proccess of running low-quality missions for high-sec agents (no one else will talk to me) and scrapeing together what few pennies i could manage, i was able to become self sufficient. My sec standing is still too low to allow me to run missions for anything outside of the one or two corps i grinded low-quality missions for. The best i can manage at the moment are -1 quality agents in 0.7 sec space. I don't mind that you took out the missions, in fact i even stated in the rookie channel that they need to be modified to be more intresting for newer players. But You really need to give compensation for takeing them out, even as a temporary measure, It will take me many days of agent running just to get to the position my first charachter was.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.08.26 11:45:00 - [82] The rookie mission series ended with about half a million in isk, some loot and the implant. Nice reward for becoming accustomed to the interface, the map, travelling, shopping, chatting over the course of a few hours of 'boredom'. Unlike the rookie complexes it allowed an unlimited number of pilots to be around. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
Magnum III Journey On Squad	Posted - 2006.08.27 05:32:00 - [83] Dudes! I did not like those stinking fed ex mission as a n00b!
Frash Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2006.08.27 08:26:00 - [84] Edited by: Frash on 27/08/2006 08:33:24 Originally by: Kartush Originally by: Skellibjalla Edited by: Skellibjalla on 23/08/2006 17:46:12 We are sorry but we HAD to do this because of code changes that could not wait Apologies for the inconvenience (especially the implant-thingy, which we should have been compensated for in this patch). But the flipside is that what what the New Player Experience will bring you instead in Kali (spread throughout the patches in the Path to Kali touched on in this brand new Gamespy Review shamelessly plugged here by me) will be SO MUCH BETTER THAT YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE YOUR EYES!! Please bear with us. We love you all Oh, god, no... New Player Experience is awfully close to New Game Experience. Any refugees from Star Wars: Galaxies knows what I am talking about. Time to run away! 2 1/2 yr vet from SWG, I know exactly what you mean.... Aside from the SWG comment, do we have to roll a new player just to experience these new fangled "new player experience" tutorials? EDIT:I have to agree with the poster above, I started the game about 3 months ago, but RL complications forced me to retire. I came back with this char about a month ago, and just started over. I hadn't remembered how basic ship components or the neocom worked. I didn't even remember that they were gone. What would have been nice is that the devs give the noob players say 500,000 ISK. Roughly the equivalent of all the courier missions. Don't like EVE-Radio.com? Try ETN.FM or Afterhoursdjs.com
Miss Overlord	Posted - 2006.08.27 13:54:00 - [85] keep hte new players on the advisory agents longer (taht is combo of kill and courier and mining missions) factional warfare might get some of em interested (running around with 100 rookie ships on each side shooting each other) that might be the only saving grace But for us PVP guys even courier agents on an alt account challanges our logistic ability (i do em in low sec sometimes just to give hte pirates some targets) the rewards are good and feed our PVP habits as well as keeping the NPC market going (will be more important once colonies are controllable and need feeding in 0.0) of course planets will ahve high value items - production capacity and probably soveringty contributions meaning even the hardcore PVP alliances will to control space develop their industrial sides All 3 factors - factional warfare - planetary combat and control and a basic simulation on an economic and even invasion front - more PVP aspects tying in with every aspect of the new developments to keep ppl shooting as well as industrial - hauling operations Put all 3 on an even develoment footing along with the jove and 0.0 expansions and they might just keep the game going for a few more years
Mangler X	Posted - 2006.08.28 00:29:00 - [86] Originally by: Kartush Originally by: Skellibjalla Edited by: Skellibjalla on 23/08/2006 17:46:12 We are sorry but we HAD to do this because of code changes that could not wait Apologies for the inconvenience (especially the implant-thingy, which we should have been compensated for in this patch). But the flipside is that what what the New Player Experience will bring you instead in Kali (spread throughout the patches in the Path to Kali touched on in this brand new Gamespy Review shamelessly plugged here by me) will be SO MUCH BETTER THAT YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE YOUR EYES!! Please bear with us. We love you all Oh, god, no... New Player Experience is awfully close to New Game Experience. Any refugees from Star Wars: Galaxies knows what I am talking about. x A KAJILLION! I am a refugee from SWG and yes, NPE is way too close to NGE. Call it New Arrival Adventures or Newcommer Training or Greenhorn Refinement. Anything, but never put New and Expeience in the same sentence. As for removing the courier mission. I am a "new player". Just finished my free trial and decided to join. 2 DAYS after I pay up, you guys do a patch update that removes the main thing I was doing to make ISK. My toon isnt even good enough to do any combat missions that are worth it. I hope you re-instate the courier missions before my 30 days are up. Otherwise I wont be too inclined to continue my sub ATM.
Rakhan kane Minmatar Fringe Exploration And Salvage Trust	Posted - 2006.08.28 03:16:00 - [87] Originally by: Gamer4liff Jesus christ, calm down. They said there would be a patch on Tuesday putting them back in and that sounds pretty concrete to me. No they didn't. They said they're contemplating such a patch. They didn't say a) That such a patch excists b) That such a patch will be deployed, even if it did excist or they made one. I wouldn't build much on your concrete. Originally by: Brazero To all the new ppl complaining here, those noob courier missions with implant reward are not all that old. I'm pretty sure they came with RMR. I'm pretty sure they didn't. I did them, and that was 3 months before RMR.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.08.28 07:08:00 - [88] The name 'New Player Experience' is much much older than NGE. I think I read it for the first time when Pann talked about the coming(!) tutorials for new players. That's been about 3 years ago. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
nail gun	Posted - 2006.08.28 22:23:00 - [89] I have never shot a noob in the forehead. But I may start.
syphurous	Posted - 2006.08.28 23:01:00 - [90] Been playing 17 Days, must say n00bs need to find some other n00bs to get a good start. I've got 5 others online I talk to, 2 or 3 & them being n00bs and "living" a few jumps away so we can gang up to do the harder missions. Note the encounter level 1 missions except Worlds Collide and another one I cant remember off the top of my head ( a nasty merc that shreds n00bs with way to much ease, with 3 other basic npc that cant actually land a shot ) are all relativly easy. I've also started recieving skill books as rewards, however no one buys skills and I've already trained the skills they're for. Having multiple units of the same skil book being given out isn't useful to me, but those who I'm hanging out with dont always have the skills so I can benefit them. The tutorial missions need to state more about setting standings, helps when you set positive standings with other players in your gang so you can identify loot.
Miss Overlord	Posted - 2006.08.28 23:06:00 - [91] to the last post u may want to form a player corp with these newbies or find smallish mission running and mining corp locally that isnt at war with anyone This will allow u to set standings all u need is 1 mil ISK and corparation skill level 1 to create corp with up to 10 toons (ethnic relations also drop off advisory agents) allowing multiracial corp. Corp Man 2 will allow u 20 peeps This will also have the benefit of youre corp buddies having corp to NPC corp standings (collective average/total) of members which will be more impoortant in kali which is looking like it is going to be delayed till october
syphurous	Posted - 2006.08.28 23:16:00 - [92] RE:Miss Overlord I've already set standings with them, and the gate sniper who thought he was being funny ( your bio really shows your intelligence :P ). No need to set up a corp yet, the n00b corp you get thrown in is good enough for now. We're not all online every night so just building up some knowledge & deciding on career paths is our main proity. Ganging up is good to start lerning how to work with others.
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2006.08.29 02:45:00 - [93] Would a mission dev like to talk about some of the missions being put back in tomorrow? I'm sure you would make a lot of people happy!
Miss Overlord	Posted - 2006.08.29 09:03:00 - [94] the devs arent saying much we might not even get the courier missions back - they seem to be working very hard and under a lot of stress atm. Patch seems to be being deployed over 2-3 weeks now instead of one which is pushing klai back maybe to late november They will pop up in due time

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