Ok Forum ate my post so here is the short version so I can go to sleep.

Remove High Slot from Drake, Cane, Harbinger. Remove Weapon Hardpoint from Drake and Harbinger. Give 7.5-10% Opt Bonus to Harbinger replacing Cap Bonus. Replace Cane Rof Bonus with Opt / Falloff / Tracking Bonus. Cut Heavy Missile Flight Time so Heavies work out to 50-60 Km. Leave current Myrm in as is.

That along with a targeted buff to Cruisers ability to preform unique and useful roles through fitting, slot, bonus tweaking might bring more balance to the field.

As for the Scorp I agree it makes a great Fleet Support Battleship. It doesn't make a good Battleship to base your fleet around though. The Maelstrom / Abbadon and to a lesser extent the Geddon / Tempest are good candidates to build fleets around. One of those Center of the fleet types for Cal / Gal would be a preferable solution then trying to nerf the front runners. Especially if the Gal armor one and Cal Shield one can ride shotgun in the current Armor Amarr / Shield Min Gangs without being looked down on.

BTW: I would rather see the other Pirate Cruisers / Frigs be a bit more useful than an Angel Nerf.

ouch, you pretty much messed up.

Do you remember for the amarr buff back than some years ago, when they lowered EM resists due some stupid reasons
(oh no lasers hit the highest resist or something bs) ?
They also lowered explo resists ,and resulted in an over the top matar buff.
Same stealth matar boost just like now. For some reason CCP just cant let opmatar to go.
It is rly said.

Do you remember for the amarr buff back than some years ago, when they lowered EM resists due some stupid reasons
(oh no lasers hit the highest resist or something bs) ?
They also lowered explo resists ,and resulted in an over the top matar buff.
Same stealth matar boost just like now. For some reason CCP just cant let opmatar to go.
It is rly said.

Looks like thinking isnt in the matar op set.
The patch made projectiles to hit harder--> matar buff no matter how you try to hide it ,it was a matar buff after all.
It boosted emp ammo too, what most matar used for close range.

9% !> 33%

and since when does any Matar with a brain go "close range" on an Amarr ship.....getting scrammed is a pretty sure way to go home in pod. Unless you are referring to one of the rare armor canes, in which case I'm STILL not going to be hitting an armor tanked Amarri ship with ******* EMP because that is just ******* stupid

...and if you are kiting you are using barrage which is lower damage than faction EMP and hitting your strongest resist.


Make up you mind, you ceasing to even be coherent any longer.

Oh, so you basically don't want battlecruisers to be useful?

-Liang

You REALLY want canes that can hit to lock with Barrage and will still outrun you?

Think about that.

And why would that not make Battlecruisers useful.

Are 6 Weapons with 1 Damage Bonus not enough. Would people stop using Heavy Missiles because they go to 60. What about this will kill Battlecruisers.

5% falloff bonus, show me the fit that hits that far.

I'm not saying I'm better than you.

Its criticism (in sarcastic form) of CCPs poor balance.

With barrage and three TEs (may as well since you are fist ******* DPS) 3455+44.1 hurri only locks to 56km

That is on a current cyclone that has (shocker) a 5% falloff bonus.

...and I'll STILL outrun a Harbi

So what changes other than a Amarr fanboi is appeased.

Read previous posts, the tracking bonus mixup was already pointed out (twice before you) and I already acknowledged the mistake (before you posted).

Putting the falloff penalty back in, but at 25% instead of the previous 50%, while Void retains the 50% penalty, is a buff to projectiles, plain and simple.

Hybrid T2 ammo just got more inferior relative to projectile T2 ammo.

The short range autocannon ammo has a 0.75 falloff modifier, the short range blaster ammo has a 0.5 fall off modifier
Win for Winmatar.

The long range autocannon ammo has a 1.5 falloff modifier, the long range blaster ammo has a 1.25 falloff modifier
Win for Winmatar.

Also would like to point out that hybrids are not projectiles. It sounds like you want hybrids to be projectile turrets.

I'll agree that minmatar are able to apply more DPS than hybrids in some cases, but honestly if you can slow them down and start wailing on them, they will crumple.

matar doesnt have less tank than the others , every other race would crumple too

crumple yeah... and how does that differ from any other race? matar doesnt have less tank than the others , every other race would crumple too

crumple yeah... and how does that differ from any other race? matar doesnt have less tank than the others , every other race would crumple too

Cyclone has a falloff bonus now huh.

BTW the new 10% Opt Harbinger stats with Heavypulse would be able to hit that far to it's optimal range with 2 TC's. While a Cane hitting that far would be so far in it's falloff it's Damage would be a joke.

As for outrunning a Harbinger... It is Minmatar of course it will. The long optimal more then makes up for it.

Its damage would be a joke ANYWAY after you chop its bonuses seriously, 650mm pointless and now that you have yanked a high you are talking a 500DPS ship with perfect skills in optimal and optimal is UNDER 4km

In otherwords you want the Harbi to be the premier BC, and the hell with the other three races.P.S. There is nothing stopping the cane from mounting Arties and essentially nuking you from space.

OH but you have to be able to hit with a MEDIUM short range turret into LARGE long range territory......I mean what could possibly go wrong.

...As sorry about the cyclone, that was erroneous, I was actually looking at a x2 TR Vaga.....for reference x2 TEs Vaga hits 3810 + 47500 with 220s with 425s it hits for 4233+51826. x2 TE (more realistic) its optimal plus falloff is still something like 48.

Are you using a speadsheet for this sillyness? This is your idea of balance?

650mm Optimal is not under 4km and you fit 720mm Artillery on a Cane always.
Always.

So the Harbinger would be overpowered but the Cane you were complaining about being underpowered would beat it... Ok there champ.

Absolutely nothing. Since you will still do less DPS then the Drake at that Range without the tank. It will however be instant Dmg and you can switch to MF dmg Crystals up close.

Vega has twice the Falloff Bonus that was proposed so your still using the wrong ship.

Are you using a speadsheet for this sillyness? This is your idea of balance?

Whatever, I can fit both I prefer 650s, YOU may fit 720s "always" but for the type of fighting I often to 650s are better all around, they are right in sweet sport of long point, you can actually hit something with the MWD below 35k AND it lets you fit a better tank.....on a ship that is ALWAYS going to thin in sheild trim.

...and don't bother BCing it, I've never lost one, despite 20 some odd kills.

Not to mention, no kidding atrilery has more than a 4km optimal...I was talking optimal DPS after you cut the ROF bonus and nerf the ship 30% overall. Go back to your spread sheet and show me a 500 DPS arty fit, you aren't getting there without some fairly exotic hardwires AND 650s AND HAMs along with perfect skills....and you are still going to need to overheat.

You play your spreadsheets, I play the game.





After you chop DPS and make it so the options for a shield cane and alpha or leave the field because you harbi is hitting 60km with SHORT RANGE TURRETS

Spare me

What is "going to beat it" a single neut Armor cane? That MAY get to 350DPS





.......jeee that wouldn't sort of make my point.


[quote=Alara IonStorm]
Vega has twice the Falloff Bonus that was proposed so your still using the wrong ship.

Go back to your spread sheet and show me a 500 DPS arty fit,

After you chop DPS and make it so the options for a shield cane and alpha or leave the field because you harbi is hitting 60km with SHORT RANGE TURRETS

Spare me

What is "going to beat it" a single neut Armor cane? That MAY get to 350DPS

None of the T1s HAVE a falloff bonus, you get ROF and damage.....its our flavor.

Either way it makes my point.

"It'll still win", whch is horseshit, if a shield cane is beating you in an armor Harbi solo your are doing it wrong. I intentially avoid them because a decent point will chase me off the field or draw it out until I screw up. Three times I've JUST managed to escape by virtue of suddely ECM drones when I've tried it.

But again, I want to hear how making a Harbi fire to lock inside optimal is in ANY way balanced.

C'mon, lets here something other than my numbers are wrong.

What you've said thus far.
Drake can hit my Harbi further than it can hit back ...nerf HML range 15%
Cane can do more damage in optimal than my Harbi ....nerf it 30%
Myrm isn't a threat ....it's fine

.....oh and my Harbi should hit to lock with pulses

LOL I'm contradicting myself.

Love watching the damage control crew - same faces, same arguments, and same deflection instantly to Amarr.

Love watching the damage control crew - same faces, same arguments, and same deflection instantly to Amarr.