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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16276
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Posted - 2015.04.28 18:59:38 -
[181] - Quote
You seem to think that the idea is to stop long range deployment at all. It isn't. Deploy away!
The point is to make it such that a long range deployment is now a significant commitment and involves leaving in-space assets at risk. It is.
Half the problem was that it was possible to move a supercap fleet across the map in literally less time than it takes a freighter to cross 9-2
The other half was that is was possible to move them back just as quickly.
When there is close to zero opportunity cost for moving very quickly, then everyone is your next door neighbour. A situation like this very quickly leads to a two-colour map with zero opportunity for anyone not in one of the two blocs to have any meaningful independent existence regardless of any sov system in place.
Thus the three phases of the sov rework, the first two of which have completely reversed the situation as it was in September 2014
1) The Phoebe changes make it militarily even possible to have more than 2 powers on the map. Pre-Phoebe it wasn't.
2) The "Fozziesov" changes will make it extremely difficult (not impossible, but requiring enormous effort) to hold space that you don't live in and utilise. Currently it's trivial.
3) The 3rd phase will be to rework the local economy of nullsec to make it viable to have a relatively small amount of space support a large number of players.
There will still be wars. There will still be coalitions and diplomacy and politics. There will still be long distance deployments and failcascades and battles. What we won't have, if this all works out, is the old stagnant sitaution where everyone sat on their hands for a year at a time, then there was a gigantic lagfest battle that ultimately meant nothing, because the winner didn't even want the loser's space.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16276
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Posted - 2015.04.28 19:01:24 -
[182] - Quote
Incidentally, if all you want to do is move your "taxi carrier", then get a corpie or a friend or even an alt to find an appropriate wormhole.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Lakotnik
TSOE Po1ice TSOE Consortium
8
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Posted - 2015.05.04 06:54:25 -
[183] - Quote
knobber Jobbler wrote:You utterly miss the point of what I said. You see Goon and it's all sandy clunge and hat gons rather than a reasonable and objective discussion.
Stop putting words in peoples mouths. Nobody was discriminating against Goons. You can always have your Alt1 move things from A to B, your 2nd alt from B to C, your main clonejumps from A to C, voila. No fatigue and your stuff is where it should be.
Multple Character training, do you even use it?
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corebloodbrothers
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
1209
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Posted - 2015.05.04 08:20:07 -
[184] - Quote
I love the way it is now, its ofc a quick patch to a more structural issue in null sec force projection, and requires more mechanicsms, wihtout those we also not where we w+ínt to be.
But atm if i look at kills pilots for example in provi get ,they up in numbers and isk, big time, ee have fights without the world pilling onto them, as currently wiht nc. Super and cap deployment is limited and so is tidi. All seem to have fun and fatique and range add strategic choices too it.
For form ups people can travel in industrials through the jb network, ceptors, and jumpclones. Those combined take care of most traffic realised.
So as a player and as a csm i am happy with it for now, and more intrested how it will hold under the new sov mechanics with fozzie sov, and hopefully further down the line with structures, buildable stargates and long term future. I ma also intrsted in the rebalance of titans nad supers, in combo wiht fatique.
So whilst its not your ultimate feature, its a quick patch that workes like intended untiill and so on. |
Stuyvenstein Pompetti
Wurmgat Wandelaars Dark Knights of Eden
0
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Posted - 2015.05.04 22:20:06 -
[185] - Quote
I support the idea of jump fatigue in making sov less stagnant, but I also think having it on jump bridges is a little overkill but removing it from jbs would then most likely make most people go jump bridge crazy. So instead, maybe have a fatigue reduction bonus on jump bridges the same way as on industrial ships? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16320
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Posted - 2015.05.05 07:39:33 -
[186] - Quote
Stuyvenstein Pompetti wrote:I support the idea of jump fatigue in making sov less stagnant, but I also think having it on jump bridges is a little overkill but removing it from jbs would then most likely make most people go jump bridge crazy. So instead, maybe have a fatigue reduction bonus on jump bridges the same way as on industrial ships?
So we can keep the lovely big coalitions intact?:
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
541
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Posted - 2015.05.09 08:07:32 -
[187] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:You seem to think that the idea is to stop long range deployment at all. It isn't. Deploy away!
The point is to make it such that a long range deployment is now a significant commitment and involves leaving in-space assets at risk. It is.
Half the problem was that it was possible to move a supercap fleet across the map in literally less time than it takes a freighter to cross 9-2
The other half was that is was possible to move them back just as quickly. .
Yes, which I agreed with, as stated. Is there something wrong with reading comprehension in this forum or are people deliberately truculent? |
Iain Cariaba
1341
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Posted - 2015.05.09 21:28:49 -
[188] - Quote
knobber Jobbler wrote:Malcanis wrote:You seem to think that the idea is to stop long range deployment at all. It isn't. Deploy away!
The point is to make it such that a long range deployment is now a significant commitment and involves leaving in-space assets at risk. It is.
Half the problem was that it was possible to move a supercap fleet across the map in literally less time than it takes a freighter to cross 9-2
The other half was that is was possible to move them back just as quickly. . Yes, which I agreed with, as stated. Is there something wrong with reading comprehension in this forum or are people deliberately truculent? Both.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16362
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Posted - 2015.05.10 09:58:53 -
[189] - Quote
knobber Jobbler wrote:Malcanis wrote:You seem to think that the idea is to stop long range deployment at all. It isn't. Deploy away!
The point is to make it such that a long range deployment is now a significant commitment and involves leaving in-space assets at risk. It is.
Half the problem was that it was possible to move a supercap fleet across the map in literally less time than it takes a freighter to cross 9-2
The other half was that is was possible to move them back just as quickly. . Yes, which I agreed with, as stated. Is there something wrong with reading comprehension in this forum or are people deliberately truculent?
Because there's no tangible difference between a "space taxi" and a carrier that's being deployed to support force projection. How on earth is whatever mechanic you'd like to see going to differentiate between the two? A pop-up where you can check a box that says you pinky-swear you're not moving your "space taxi" for any nefarious purposes?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Lakotnik
TSOE Po1ice TSOE Consortium
10
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Posted - 2015.05.12 09:23:10 -
[190] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Because there's no tangible difference between a "space taxi" and a carrier that's being deployed to support force projection. How on earth is whatever mechanic you'd like to see going to differentiate between the two? A pop-up where you can check a box that says you pinky-swear you're not moving your "space taxi" for any nefarious purposes?
Naw. A special rig you can apply to your carrier that turns it into a travel carrier with no jump fatigue, but reduces your cargo, fleet and maintenance bays by 100%. Also reduces your drone bay and all defenses by 75%. Ship can't be repackaged or rig destroyed until 3-5 days pass. |
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
8004
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Posted - 2015.05.12 21:22:29 -
[191] - Quote
At which point you are better off using a jump clone that uses no fuel and requires no friend/alt to light cynos for you.
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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Sylphy
TSOE Po1ice TSOE Consortium
73
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Posted - 2015.05.13 07:24:50 -
[192] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:At which point you are better off using a jump clone that uses no fuel and requires no friend/alt to light cynos for you.
Exactly. But people are coming up with ideas on how to evade Jump Fatigue with an excuse that "Logistics movements shouldn't be penalized" but "warlike things should".
The character does not represent the views/opinions of its Corporation or Alliance.
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Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
535
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Posted - 2015.05.14 02:05:16 -
[193] - Quote
Lakotnik wrote:Malcanis wrote:Because there's no tangible difference between a "space taxi" and a carrier that's being deployed to support force projection. How on earth is whatever mechanic you'd like to see going to differentiate between the two? A pop-up where you can check a box that says you pinky-swear you're not moving your "space taxi" for any nefarious purposes? Naw. A special rig you can apply to your carrier that turns it into a travel carrier with no jump fatigue, but reduces your cargo, fleet and maintenance bays by 100%. Also reduces your drone bay and all defenses by 75%. Ship can't be repackaged or rig destroyed until 3-5 days pass.
Because not using a ship with no cargo for up to 5 days just because it equipped a rig isn't somehow worse than making a couple of jumps and slowboating the rest of the way.
Right.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Devilish Ledoux
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
111
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Posted - 2015.05.15 19:38:59 -
[194] - Quote
If the nerves of my brain were laid out in a line, they would stretch approximately 180,000 kilometers. If the word "hate" was written on every single neuron, it would still not equal one one-billionth of the hate I have for jump fatigue.
Hate.
Hate.
HATE.
*apologies to Harlan Ellison |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16374
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Posted - 2015.05.15 20:24:35 -
[195] - Quote
Devilish Ledoux wrote:If the nerves of my brain were laid out in a line, they would stretch approximately 180,000 kilometers. If the word "hate" was written on every single neuron, it would still not equal one one-billionth of the hate I have for jump fatigue.
Hate.
Hate.
HATE.
*apologies to Harlan Ellison
It sustains me.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
563
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Posted - 2015.05.16 12:17:05 -
[196] - Quote
All I can say is - you did it to yourselves. The jump fatigue mechanic is a direct response to the common place actions in nullsec - to wit, blueing up half the known universe and then blasting across the galaxy in back like you were going to the corner market, and stagnating the cluster in a way that had never been done before.
You created this monster. Deal with it.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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Samillian
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
784
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Posted - 2015.05.16 13:01:03 -
[197] - Quote
Devilish Ledoux wrote:If the nerves of my brain were laid out in a line, they would stretch approximately 180,000 kilometers. If the word "hate" was written on every single neuron, it would still not equal one one-billionth of the hate I have for jump fatigue.
Hate.
Hate.
HATE.
*apologies to Harlan Ellison
You made your bed, now lie in it.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16389
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Posted - 2015.05.17 08:40:13 -
[198] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/Co8JGIV.png
OP SUCCESS
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Ashlar Maidstone
Moonfyre Science and Research Inc.
180
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Posted - 2015.05.18 11:56:41 -
[199] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:All I can say is - you did it to yourselves. The jump fatigue mechanic is a direct response to the common place actions in nullsec - to wit, blueing up half the known universe and then blasting across the galaxy in back like you were going to the corner market, and stagnating the cluster in a way that had never been done before.
You created this monster. Deal with it.
I agree, current CSM sold us out and I have 30 days of jump timer to prove it. |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
662
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Posted - 2015.05.18 13:06:09 -
[200] - Quote
Ashlar Maidstone wrote:Elenahina wrote:All I can say is - you did it to yourselves. The jump fatigue mechanic is a direct response to the common place actions in nullsec - to wit, blueing up half the known universe and then blasting across the galaxy in back like you were going to the corner market, and stagnating the cluster in a way that had never been done before.
You created this monster. Deal with it. I agree, current CSM sold us out and I have 30 days of jump timer to prove it.
Which you only have yourself to blame for as previously stated. Look I know you guys would love to go back to the days when the only restriction on your movements was how fast you could get a cyno alt to the next target system but you have to face reality, those days are gone for good and there are tons of entities just like you who instead of complaining or proposing 'fixes' which are simply transparent efforts at sidestepping fatigue have simply pulled their socks up and adapted how they do things.
There's tons of ways you can increase mobility without falling victim to fatigue and im just going to share one of them - wormholes. Wormholes are your new best friends so learn about them, track them, map them and dont be afraid to use them.
Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
you're welcome
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16396
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Posted - 2015.05.19 07:32:28 -
[201] - Quote
Ashlar Maidstone wrote:Elenahina wrote:All I can say is - you did it to yourselves. The jump fatigue mechanic is a direct response to the common place actions in nullsec - to wit, blueing up half the known universe and then blasting across the galaxy in back like you were going to the corner market, and stagnating the cluster in a way that had never been done before.
You created this monster. Deal with it. I agree, current CSM sold us out and I have 30 days of jump timer to prove it.
Actually that was me, not the current CSM.
:smug:
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Samillian
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
792
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Posted - 2015.05.19 12:58:36 -
[202] - Quote
Ashlar Maidstone wrote:Elenahina wrote:All I can say is - you did it to yourselves. The jump fatigue mechanic is a direct response to the common place actions in nullsec - to wit, blueing up half the known universe and then blasting across the galaxy in back like you were going to the corner market, and stagnating the cluster in a way that had never been done before.
You created this monster. Deal with it. I agree, current CSM sold us out and I have 30 days of jump timer to prove it.
The only thing that 30 day jump timer proves is that you didn't seriously consider the well publicised and explained consequences of your actions.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
542
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Posted - 2015.05.20 12:50:01 -
[203] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:knobber Jobbler wrote:Malcanis wrote:You seem to think that the idea is to stop long range deployment at all. It isn't. Deploy away!
The point is to make it such that a long range deployment is now a significant commitment and involves leaving in-space assets at risk. It is.
Half the problem was that it was possible to move a supercap fleet across the map in literally less time than it takes a freighter to cross 9-2
The other half was that is was possible to move them back just as quickly. . Yes, which I agreed with, as stated. Is there something wrong with reading comprehension in this forum or are people deliberately truculent? Because there's no tangible difference between a "space taxi" and a carrier that's being deployed to support force projection. How on earth is whatever mechanic you'd like to see going to differentiate between the two? A pop-up where you can check a box that says you pinky-swear you're not moving your "space taxi" for any nefarious purposes?
Dude, you really need to stop being so flippant, it doesn't really help anyone or anything.
There are ways to deal with this which would be relatively painless, however blanket restrictions on one feature to tackle one problem yet affects many game play mechanics which were never actually much of an issue is bad idea. |
Iain Cariaba
1368
|
Posted - 2015.05.20 18:09:15 -
[204] - Quote
Ashlar Maidstone wrote:Elenahina wrote:All I can say is - you did it to yourselves. The jump fatigue mechanic is a direct response to the common place actions in nullsec - to wit, blueing up half the known universe and then blasting across the galaxy in back like you were going to the corner market, and stagnating the cluster in a way that had never been done before.
You created this monster. Deal with it. I agree, current CSM sold us out and I have 30 days of jump timer to prove it.
30 days of space aids?!?!?!?
Excuse me, but how the **** do you not realize what you're doing wrong long before you get 30 days of space aids?
If you ended up with the max timer after more than 6 months of living with jump fatigue, the true issue is with the being between the chair and keyboard here, not with the jumo fatigue system.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16403
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Posted - 2015.05.20 22:05:57 -
[205] - Quote
test
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
2764
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Posted - 2015.05.20 23:00:48 -
[206] - Quote
is recruiting?
heh heh
m
Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16405
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Posted - 2015.05.21 06:12:26 -
[207] - Quote
I had a big long reply but the forum get 404ing every time I tried to post it. Forums script is I guess telling me not to waste my time trying to reason with people who don't care about reasons.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16405
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Posted - 2015.05.21 06:17:04 -
[208] - Quote
It's all very well saying that there are "painless ways to deal with this", but all the "painless ways" so far proposed have either reduced down to "pinky swear" solutions or are just straight up "let me move as many ships around as fast as I like but this is a power projection nerf because whargle garble". If you've come up with a way to tesseract the hypersphere, then by all means enlighten and impress me.
Don't take too long about it though, please. I'm not sure how much longer I can hold my breath.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Ripcord Zarrek
2
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Posted - 2015.05.21 21:23:57 -
[209] - Quote
I have to agree that the jump bridge fatigue is insanely stupid. I'm willing to accept jump fatigue and all that but having fatigue for going through a JB that you alliance owns, in space you own and that you pay to fuel for each jump should not cause fatigue. JBs are so we can move around easily/avoid camps, we shouldnt be punished for using them.
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
2750
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Posted - 2015.05.21 21:53:09 -
[210] - Quote
Ripcord Zarrek wrote:JBs are so we can move around easily/avoid camps
And they're for the mass movement of fleets across huge distances almost instantly.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
A recent survey of applicants to CODE. corporations showed that 100% accepted James 315 as their saviour. You can't argue with facts.
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