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Buma Firuu
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
0
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Posted - 2014.11.07 17:13:54 -
[1] - Quote
All the changes brought by all releases, from TIDI birth till now, are irrelevant. The most important things to fix are lag and TIDI (no1 enemy of an ejoyable EVE Online). Last night I took part ( for the first time in my EVE history and life ) in a sov null fight in U-QVWD, with merely 600 pilots when I was there. This is what all new pilots wants and dream of, to be part of big events and fights that shape EVE history. But the reality was cruel, not because I lost my ship without even activating a single module, not because my alliance lost a battle or whatever. It was a cruel reality because lag spread its venom everywhere, and then in the staging system, TIDI showed itself to me like a merciless GOD. TIDI destroyed my imaginary big juicy heroic fights with capital ships and all that sheep. It really was not important for me to loose or to win the fight, nor my ship or my pod, because I prepared myself for that. What I was not prepared for was TIDI and the experience of a broken game that had nothing to do with the EVE that I knew till then. It was critically important to enjoy a game that can offer big fleet fights in a normal client/server behavior, like small gang fights or 1v1 duels. I was very disappointed , suddenly when TIDI hit the game it was not anymore the grandiose EVE Online MMO best game of the 20XX , but it was a broken game, a FMMO= Failed Massively Multiplayer Offline game. I thought ; How can the other guys like this sheep ? How can anyone like a game that is broke in one of its most advertized features, in that of Massively Multiplaying (big fleet fights) ? I think the most important thing that CCP should do, is to fix up EVE Online as a real MMO, so that the players can enjoy 1k or 2k or 3k or xk pilots in local system fights as they do in 1v1 without TIDI & CO. Everything else is not important anymore for me. I learned a very bitter lesson and reality ; I can not play EVE Online in its funniest manifestation = BIG FLEET FIGHTS or in Alliance Warfare or in Sovereignty Warfare, and that is 50% or more of EVE Online game experience. TIDI is not the cure, TIDI is the disease, and with TIDI EVE is not anymore a MMO game but a SMO small multiplayer online game.
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Iain Cariaba
602
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Posted - 2014.11.07 17:39:34 -
[2] - Quote
TIDI will not kill EvE. Inability to format a forum post into something readable will be the real death of EvE.
Paragraphs man, use them.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
4142
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Posted - 2014.11.07 17:43:39 -
[3] - Quote
There are changes happening which should help.
Go look for details on Dogma, and Brain in a Box.
(oh, and CCP's doing better than most. more MMO realms do 2-3k total. not all interacting at the one time.)
Woo! CSM 9!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Buma Firuu
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
0
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Posted - 2014.11.07 17:59:38 -
[4] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:There are changes happening which should help.
Go look for details on Dogma, and Brain in a Box.
(oh, and CCP's doing better than most. more MMO realms do 2-3k total. not all interacting at the one time.)
Can you enlight me Mr.CSM Member about Dogma and Brain in a Box? |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
Warp to Cyno.
4127
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Posted - 2014.11.07 19:33:31 -
[5] - Quote
Buma Firuu wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:There are changes happening which should help.
Go look for details on Dogma, and Brain in a Box.
(oh, and CCP's doing better than most. more MMO realms do 2-3k total. not all interacting at the one time.) Can you enlight me Mr.CSM Member about Dogma and Brain in a Box?
there's big changes to do with how the eve servers communicate with each other and the client
the goal is to reduce the amount of data they have to keep sharing. the target data for brain-in-a-box project is character information, which apparently gets sent around more than it needs to and contributes to lag a lot
dogma is the name of some eve server data handling thingo
also. fights with tidi are far better than 'fights' before tidi |
DaReaper
Net 7
1215
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Posted - 2014.11.07 21:22:01 -
[6] - Quote
I don;t think you understand what tidi is or what the actual issue is.
TiDi is the band aid for the servers issues. without tidi large fleet fights are unplayable. No i don;t mean laggy, i mean unplayable, black screens disconnects, hours of black loading. unplayable. TiDi is the remedy for that.
The issue is, eve was build in the age of single core more ghz processors. When the world changed to more cores, eve lagged behind. Some of the old systems don;t scale well for multi core.
This is what a lot of little changes actually do have big impact. Changing some code pieces to scale helps alleviate the pressure that activated tidi.
But there is a lot of projects going on behind the scenes that you will never notice but will improve a lot of stuff. Dogma is in essence the program that deals with ships bonus and interaction (i think) Brain in a box deals with character skills and attributes esp as they go to the ships. These two items being fixed will make a huge difference.
In essence, ccp is working on fixing TiDi.. you just won;t notice it.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
4143
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Posted - 2014.11.07 22:35:27 -
[7] - Quote
Right now, session changes are expensive, time wise.
Watch a fleet taking multiple jumps, and you'll find it causing systems to go into TiDi.
BiaB takes the work that happens at session change, and caches it (basically. It's more complex than that, but it's a good approximation)
The dogma rewrite is something which is required to make that work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diGYlJNpPEo may be of interest.
Woo! CSM 9!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Zappity
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
1520
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Posted - 2014.11.07 23:42:50 -
[8] - Quote
Is there an ETA on the dogma rewrite? This is also required to bring links on grid I think.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
4144
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Posted - 2014.11.07 23:47:48 -
[9] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Is there an ETA on the dogma rewrite? This is also required to bring links on grid I think.
Ongoing, unfortunately.
It's a pretty major rewrite, and because it touches so many things, they have to keep integrating other changes into it.
Woo! CSM 9!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Zappity
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
1520
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Posted - 2014.11.07 23:50:57 -
[10] - Quote
Thanks
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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DaReaper
Net 7
1216
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Posted - 2014.11.08 15:00:48 -
[11] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Zappity wrote:Is there an ETA on the dogma rewrite? This is also required to bring links on grid I think. Ongoing, unfortunately. It's a pretty major rewrite, and because it touches so many things, they have to keep integrating other changes into it.
there is a thread in GD about the Biab rewrite, it has a lot of information from one of the devs working on it. I can say i do not envy his job.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Buma Firuu
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
0
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Posted - 2014.11.09 08:06:46 -
[12] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:I don;t think you understand what tidi is or what the actual issue is.
TiDi is the band aid for the servers issues. without tidi large fleet fights are unplayable. No i don;t mean laggy, i mean unplayable, black screens disconnects, hours of black loading. unplayable. TiDi is the remedy for that.
The issue is, eve was build in the age of single core more ghz processors. When the world changed to more cores, eve lagged behind. Some of the old systems don;t scale well for multi core.
This is what a lot of little changes actually do have big impact. Changing some code pieces to scale helps alleviate the pressure that activated tidi.
But there is a lot of projects going on behind the scenes that you will never notice but will improve a lot of stuff. Dogma is in essence the program that deals with ships bonus and interaction (i think) Brain in a box deals with character skills and attributes esp as they go to the ships. These two items being fixed will make a huge difference.
In essence, ccp is working on fixing TiDi.. you just won;t notice it.
I do know and understand what TiDi is.
What I don't accept is TiDi itself, flagged as a savior or hero to lag and big fleet fight issues.
I don't accept a service (TiDi) with zero or negative quality , speaking of game experience.
It would be more acceptable to limit the number of pilots in systems, as many as client/server communication can really handle in a fight situation , and so have a good quality fight and game experience, than offer big false pilot numbers in
big fake fights with very very slow motion.
My point here is that the quality of game experience must not be traded of with big fake fights.
If before TiDi pilots was offered only black screen, now after TiDi I was offered a colorful screen with the grid not being loaded completely, and the ships being blaped before any enemy ship was loaded in the grid.
Oh this is for sure a better situation than a black screen!!!
Common guys, if client/server can handle only 400 pilots fights in system without TiDi , but with good quality, then limit it to 400, if it is 200 so it be.. This I can accept.
Technology nowadays have limitations I understand this, and I can not ask CCP to achieve or offer something that is beyond tech capabilities, but don't offer a service (big fleet fights) that you can not deliver (with good quality). |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
1816
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Posted - 2014.11.09 15:53:34 -
[13] - Quote
Buma Firuu wrote:What I don't accept is TiDi itself, flagged as a savior or hero to lag and big fleet fight issues.
I've only ever seen if referred to as an interim solution - in which dev post did you see it called any different? From what I've heard of the pre-time dilation period, it was a roll of the dice as to whether you got into the fight or just got a black screen until you woke up in the clone bay. Having fought in time dilation on a fair few occasions, it's way better than that, though obviously not ideal.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
CODE. is recruiting highsec PvPers for wardecs | New Order diplomat
"no one hates you, none of us care enough for that".
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
Warp to Cyno.
4136
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Posted - 2014.11.10 13:15:31 -
[14] - Quote
Buma Firuu wrote:It would be more acceptable to limit the number of pilots in systems, as many as client/server communication can really handle in a fight situation , and so have a good quality fight and game experience, than offer big false pilot numbers in
big fake fights with very very slow motion.
...
Common guys, if client/server can handle only 400 pilots fights in system without TiDi , but with good quality, then limit it to 400, if it is 200 so be it. This I can accept.
this'd make winning timers as easy as 'pack four hundred pilots into the system before the other team then go play something else'
admiral that's what i've heard of pre-tidi fights, too, from csm 6 minutes iirc |
Buma Firuu
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
0
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Posted - 2014.11.11 10:55:28 -
[15] - Quote
Dumb is your viewpoint admiral root.
Who said that the limit number in system would follow the actual rule First Arrived (jump request) First Served ?
If the number that a system can handle is 400 then it can be limited the number allowed for the defense and attack fleets.
For example the alliance holding the sov of the system can be allowed to login 200 pilots to defend the system, and the attack force can be limited to login 200 pilots. How can be done this? With if-else statements ;).
1.Are you an alliance pilot holding the sov of the system X ?
-> if yes then go to 2
-> if no then go to 3
2.Is the number of alliance (sov holder) pilots in system < 200 ?
-> if yes then welcome to the party; you may jump to system X
-> if no then sorry all seats are taken; you may not jump to X system
3. Is the number of non alliance (sov holder) pilots in system < 200 ?
-> if yes then welcome to the party; you may jump to X system
-> if no then sorry all seats are taken; you may not jump to system X
This will require to limit the fleet numbers too.
The limitation with equal number of pilots allowed for defense/attack can be done and well managed.
Then the fight will not depend on how many ships you can bring, but what ships and who you will bring (skills and fc), or how well you manage attack / defense .
There will be room for all the pilots of the alliance to join the fight, but not in one system but in several systems, so an alliance can organize a constellation invading/defense operation or in a whole region at once. Each fight will be enjoyed (without TiDi) and depend only on the skills and decisions (ship fit selection) of the pilots participating in each fight.
There are a thousand ways to achieve a goal, IF YOU WANT TO, but dumb pilots can't see this. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
1840
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 13:12:03 -
[16] - Quote
So the attacker will flood the system with neutral alts in addition to their assault fleet. Yup, I'm definitely the dumb one here.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
CODE. is recruiting highsec PvPers for wardecs | New Order diplomat
"no one hates you, none of us care enough for that".
|
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
4155
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Posted - 2014.11.11 13:30:25 -
[17] - Quote
It's not a new idea. Which is why people immediately discount it, as they've already pointed out all the problems which can occur. No-one's had a way of doing it which isn't hideously open to being gamed.
Woo! CSM 9!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Buma Firuu
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 13:37:41 -
[18] - Quote
admiral root wrote:So the attacker will flood the system with neutral alts in addition to their assault fleet. Yup, I'm definitely the dumb one here.
Yes, you are 
Let me explain again. In an imaginary limit number of 400 pilots per system,
200 seats are reserved to the alliance holding the system (coalition mechanics fucks off this way).
The other half 200 are free for who ever wants to attack that system.
Perhaps you wanted to say that the sov holder would fill the system with 200 alts they control and this way
don't give the chance of the real attack force to be present in that system. This would be a weak point.
But guys I'm not giving or pretending to have the solution, I'm just saying that if devs think seriously (without unlimited numbers in mind) can find an acceptable solution without giving up on quality , and excluding TiDi.
If this limitation on the hole system is not good , what about on a limit number of ships in a location (grid speaking) in system.
The idea is based on divide and conquer the problem (big number of pilots in a fight). |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
1841
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 13:44:37 -
[19] - Quote
Buma Firuu wrote:Perhaps you wanted to say that the sov holder would fill the system with 200 alts they control and this way
don't give the chance of the real attack force to be present in that system. This would be a weak point.
No, I didn't realise your "idea" was intentionally and ridiculously biased in favour of the defender.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
CODE. is recruiting highsec PvPers for wardecs | New Order diplomat
"no one hates you, none of us care enough for that".
|
Buma Firuu
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
0
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Posted - 2014.11.11 15:30:11 -
[20] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Buma Firuu wrote:Perhaps you wanted to say that the sov holder would fill the system with 200 alts they control and this way
don't give the chance of the real attack force to be present in that system. This would be a weak point. No, I didn't realise your "idea" was intentionally and ridiculously biased in favour of the defender.
In fact my idea is intentionally and from many viewpoints ridiculously against ,TiDi and BIG FAKE FIGHTS.
If you are comfortable with TiDi and EVE as it is now , that doesn't mean that everyone else should be.
I just stated at the beginning that I can not play Eve Online (alliance and sovereignty warfare)
as it is now (with all the issues of lag and TiDi and the ridiculous big "epic" fake fights) AND have fun.
One thing is for sure if one plays in big fights with TiDi will NOT have fun.
Do you remember why are you here in EVE Universe admiral? I presume to have fun rather then distress 
Be sincere to yourself. How much fun do you have when you play EVE under TiDi?
This is what I'm talking about here.
If it's not fun anymore to play a game, then you can imagine what will happen to that game.
I'm sorry but I will not bias in favor of TiDi and fake epic experiences in big fights, cause they are not
as they say they are.
They are not fun, and other pilots must know the truth, or will be disappointed, and disappointment is not fun. |
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
Warp to Cyno.
4140
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Posted - 2014.11.11 16:01:55 -
[21] - Quote
isn't artificially limiting the number of people from each side that can access a battle essentially creating a LITTLE FAKE FIGHT? |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
1842
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 16:43:02 -
[22] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:isn't artificially limiting the number of people from each side that can access a battle essentially creating a LITTLE FAKE FIGHT?
Yes, but grrrr, time dilation.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
CODE. is recruiting highsec PvPers for wardecs | New Order diplomat
"no one hates you, none of us care enough for that".
|
Buma Firuu
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 17:55:54 -
[23] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:isn't artificially limiting the number of people from each side that can access a battle essentially creating a LITTLE FAKE FIGHT?
Allright , allright, you got me !
I made a mistake when I begin to think and speak about a possible solution.
But I'm not making a mistake hitting and addressing the white elephant in the room of Eve Online and
game experience quality.
Playing a battle in very slow motion for 20 hours (that should had been 2 hours long) as has happened in the past must not be fun and not a good game experience at all.
At the most it is grinding at the maximum capabilities for a human being when dealing with internet spaceships.
I don't think grinding is fun, do you ?
ps: better real little fights than big unplayable fake fights |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
403
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 19:22:51 -
[24] - Quote
These problems exist because of alliances.
Get rid of alliances in Eve.
The groups are too big and ruin the fun of the game.
Alliances were added to get rid of the marking people blue alliance that existed before.
Formal alliance was made to replace those rag tag versions.
All that happen was those became formal and then the rag tag coalition sprung to life.
The system has never been able to handle the problems this has caused.
It did get the game lots of press due to the fight sizes and CCP figures it was worth it as it brought people to the game.
Shortly after it ran more people out of the game than it ever brought in and Null sec has been broken from that point forward.
Without this big mistake this game could have been so much more than it is today.
Lack of incentive for null sec.
Huge power blocks.
Renter space. (( Why the hell would they allow this? ))
Tidi / lag.
It was a good idea gone bad. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
809
|
Posted - 2014.12.17 10:35:40 -
[25] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:Formal alliance was made to replace those rag tag versions.
All that happen was those became formal and then the rag tag coalition sprung to life.
The system has never been able to handle the problems this has caused.
A huge leap of logic here, as far as I can tell. So you're saying that when alliances were acknowledged by CCP, something that people were doing anyways somehow "sprang to life"?
As for OP: as you've been told already, your issue is on the list. It will get better, eventually. That's the best you can expect from devs to do with this troubled game.
I agree, something that often serves as a public face of EVE should work. We'll be there.
Until then you have time to enjoy other aspects of EVE you could be missing. |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
168
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Posted - 2014.12.17 14:38:44 -
[26] - Quote
I think the main point is prior to TiDi, the node just crashed....nothign happened, everyone logged off and went to bed, fight was over in 20 minutes
TiDi fixed that and now a 2 hour fights takes 18 hours
The problem with limiting systems was brought up for probably the first year after TiDi and continues to raise its ugly head time and time again
There is no way to make a fair go of it unless you did an arena like setup.
For instance, if BNI was defending HED-GP against PL and PL brought a 200 man Wrecking Balla nd BNI brought whatever, PL would be invincible because BNI would never be able to call in backups as the 200 people would be limited to BNI alliance, so BL or no one else could enter based on PL taking up the other 200 slots.
I am sure that wouldn't cause any more tears than are already there, but think about it long and hard before it comes down to:
You might get what you are asking for |
Iain Cariaba
766
|
Posted - 2014.12.17 22:35:44 -
[27] - Quote
Another example of why limiting people in system is bad. Let's use OP's suggestion of limiting to 200 defending alliance and 200 non-defending alliance.
Say Legion of xXDeathXx wants to take one of Bastion's systems. Legion fleet of 200, because that's the cap, starts to form, and CFC spais get word to Bastion, who form their own 200 man fleet. Then, Circle of Two forms their own 200 man fleet, and flies over to assist the Bastion fleet, with both Bastion and CO2 fleets arriving before Legion of xXDeathXx.
According to OP's suggestion, Legion of xXDeathXx will never get a chance to even enter the system. The 200 'sov holder' cap has been met by Bastion, and the 200 'non-sov holder' cap has been met by CO2, thereby removing the ability of anyone else to enter the system.
You can use nearly the exact same example to cover pretty much any variation of system player caps, just adjust the numbers to match whatever arbitrary number is given for player cap. Regardless of how you want to spin it, it will always boil down to whichever group hits the cap will lock everyone else out.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
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Brisco County
Shadows of Rebellion
The Bastion
108
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Posted - 2014.12.18 08:42:26 -
[28] - Quote
tidi isn't that bad. Back in the day when my pubic hairs still had some color to them, if the server got too many commands it would just break the wrist and walk away like rexkwondo. At least now it queues up every command and processes them in the order that they're received. |
Eleven Gage
The Filthy Redcoats
6
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Posted - 2014.12.22 12:22:47 -
[29] - Quote
That aspect of the game will not be fixed until CCP releases the strangle hold on multiboxing by taking the new graphics upgrades down a few notches. They overhauled the graphics without any cause, reason, or patchnotes because Goon told them to do it as part of the campaign against multiboxers, needless to say, it screwed everyone all the way down to the ordinary player because they don't seem to realize that not everyone has state of the art computer tech and top of the line video cards worth hundreds of dollars.
Don't look for that fix, not only are they not going to, CCP does not have permission from the Goonswarms CSM to reverse the sabotage they have implemented with such hellbent dedication. You'll just have to ride it out or upgrade your card. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
2059
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Posted - 2014.12.22 12:34:04 -
[30] - Quote
Eleven Gage wrote:They overhauled the graphics without any cause, reason, or patchnotes because Goon told them to do it as part of the campaign against multiboxers
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That's some industrial grade tinfoil you got there.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
4589
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Posted - 2014.12.22 13:11:34 -
[31] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Eleven Gage wrote:They overhauled the graphics without any cause, reason, or patchnotes because Goon told them to do it as part of the campaign against multiboxers HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That's some industrial grade tinfoil you got there.
Whenn, Iceland does export a lot of Aluminium...
Woo! CSM 9!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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DaReaper
Net 7
1503
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Posted - 2014.12.22 16:50:06 -
[32] - Quote
I get the impression that op was not around before TiDi... you want to see eve break? remove the TiDi Band-Aid before the cause of the bleeding is fixed. Then you will see eve break.
People used to win fights by having more players then the other side in system before a fight. This would cause such lag that as your opponent jumped in all they saw was a black screen. When they finally loaded, they were in a clone vat. or your commands would not register at all. No it was a nightmare. TiDi at least makes eve playable. They just need to finish Dogma, BIAB and other such upgrades.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Tu Ko
Paxton Industries
Tactical Narcotics Team
1
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Posted - 2014.12.25 03:55:48 -
[33] - Quote
There's two types of fights in EVE the one's you win and those that you get crushed in. There is no game mechanic that will limit actual fleet sizes because the ultimate counter to every strategy is 'more dudes' . You can try all the instancing and throttling you want it'll just be gamed by those that had more dudes anyway. Removing Alliances at this point and time is meaningless we have more communication out of game than in game. Overtop of that is the migration of 'talented people' towards one of the larger groups. Those people are what makes 1000 guys jump into ships and press F1 together and over the years they have gotten better and quicker at getting those fleets to the fight. Blame blue donut all you want the fact of the matter is that the ridiculously large fleet is logical and natural to EVE and it has always been that way.
One suggestion for the sake of adding suggestions is right now the current fleet movement tactic is for everyone to approach one guy (the anchor) and effectively follow him around until he gets popped. If we have the server just take everyone that is 'keeping at range' or 'orbiting' just take the movement of the guy they are following and send that to all the clients viewing and have the client 'make up' where everyone is in the ball and anything being shot at in the ball fudges a little on range so that its basically taking a shot at the 'center' of the mass.
Other suggestion is to have the ability of the client to tell the server "I don't need you to send me this set of data' like don't send me broadcast of certain types (I know that you can filter them out but the packet was still sent to your client before it was filtered from your screen) or yank me out of corp/alliance chat, only keep track of certain types of ships and just don't send me anything about other ships unless I leave the current fleet.
TIDI is still a good answer to black screens of death that we had before.
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Sugar Smacks
State War Academy
Caldari State
33
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Posted - 2015.02.03 03:21:36 -
[34] - Quote
I will never join a Null sec corp for this one reason.
Not going to join a fight that takes hours, that isn't really interesting, that is extended, so the whole galaxy can participate.
Tidi is much more damning then the op mentioned. This extends every fight out to a period that any large power block can extend its forces out and control the galaxy.
So by "lagging" us you are actually feeding the large power blocks..
A perception than can be attributed to other Dev choices as well such as CSM.
You think that people should be excited by this prospect? Trust me they are, then they experience it.
Then they never wan't to go back. |
Anthar Thebess
847
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Posted - 2015.02.03 14:51:08 -
[35] - Quote
Leave blob, try to creating something smaller.
Problem solved.
TIDI is mostly because of the blob fights.
This is because you need bigger blob to kill other blob.
Without of ## ships on grid you cannot brake remote tank of ## logistic ships.
Bring more and you win, unless your FC is dumb or you lack skills to put proper isthar or tengu numbers - then you need just more ...
Just to summarize today eve. |
Swanky nutjob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2015.02.11 06:16:44 -
[36] - Quote
Critical mass to break reps is basic math. But yes, the problem actually liesbin the current ship meta and balance problems which have not been addressed in many months. CCP have had 3 chances now to fix Ishtar's but have not done so. This is dumb. |
Lugia3
The Southern Gentleman's Social Club
Psychotic Tendencies.
1492
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 04:44:15 -
[37] - Quote
Bet you a Confessor that OP has never experienced "Soul Crushing Lag".
"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Remove Sov!
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
2456
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Posted - 2015.03.05 13:54:09 -
[38] - Quote
Lugia3 wrote:Bet you a Confessor that OP has never experienced "Soul Crushing Lag".
Of course not - he's an expert. 
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2680
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 16:25:50 -
[39] - Quote
Clearly you never dealt with what happened before tidi. Which was: Defender packs system, attacker blackscreens upon entering and dies before their computer even recognizes that they have jumped in system. |
DaReaper
Net 7
1865
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 19:01:57 -
[40] - Quote
As this thread was necroed anyway. The dogma rewtire presintation at fan fest showed alot fo the issues they were having. The current ETA for both Dogma and BIAB rewrites is possibly later this summer. Baring some crazy mishap. With testing coming soon. So we may see TIDI be a thing of the past.
One of the more interesting factoids, is that BIAB causes your ship to load the next system 2x faster then currently. or was it 4.. i remember 2x.. hmm.. anyway that is a HUGE improvment
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3206
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 17:24:53 -
[41] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Clearly you never dealt with what happened before tidi. Which was: Defender packs system, attacker blackscreens upon entering and dies before their computer even recognizes that they have jumped in system.
You missed out the '7 hours later, Attacker's client updates to show them in a clone bay' part.
Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
16220
|
Posted - 2015.04.02 10:50:42 -
[42] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:Clearly you never dealt with what happened before tidi. Which was: Defender packs system, attacker blackscreens upon entering and dies before their computer even recognizes that they have jumped in system. You missed out the '7 hours later, Attacker's client updates to show them in a clone bay' part.
7hours? It was over 2 days before I was able to log in on Malc after P2TTL.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Malcorath Sacerdos
Circle Mercs
The Bastion
30
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Posted - 2015.04.10 16:39:38 -
[43] - Quote
i partook in my first Tidi battle yesterday .. and altho we lost some ships before tidi came into play i must say that TiDi saved my day in many ways.
1 thanks to tidi a seriously confusing situation was instead just some what nervewrecking.
2 thanks to tidi i had time to react to shyte happening so i think a did do some good in the fight
3 thanks to tidi i didnt just black screen and wake up in station in a fresh clone.
so Thank you CCP for tidi !
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solarius lunarian
BHE holdings
9
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Posted - 2015.06.30 17:32:39 -
[44] - Quote
The problem is that as bad as TIDI was really the only viable solution from a programming standpoint to keep the game from breaking down completely and just not working at all
Without TIDI any alliance with more than 1000 people could just warp in and break jita for example, just cause the entire node to crash, the game in its current form is unplayable without TIDI
people act like they had a choice between TIDI and a bunch of other things
When they built up their playerbase beyond what their servers could handle they really had two options
1. TIDI
2. Set a maximum number of players in a system
As bad as #1 is, #2 is absolutely unthinkable, it would ruin Eve as we know it, it would completely destroy the sandbox nature of the game, what's the point of recruiting 10'000 pilots when you can only use 300 in the decisive battles? CCP would basically have to micromanage any large fight in the game.
That said TIDI does have serious systemic problems that some have brought up
-Favors blob warfare heavily( if a fight takes an hour there isn't time for every player in an alliance to get to a system, there isn't time to bat phone everyone in Eve to get involved, a fight that lasts ten hours gives time for all of this and more.
-unbalances ships, it doesn't matter what speed you warp at, because events going on in the TIDI are 10x slower, a ship that's balanced in a 100 man fight may become completely ineffective with 90% TIDI
-allows pilots to repeatedly come back to an engagement after dieing
-overemphasizes the importance of time zones and downtime, certain timezones have a ridiculous advantage, I'm actually a big advocate of variable downtimes
-makes the game less accessible to casual players
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
16624
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Posted - 2015.06.30 18:52:43 -
[45] - Quote
solarius lunarian wrote:
That said TIDI does have serious systemic problems that some have brought up
-Favors blob warfare heavily( if a fight takes an hour there isn't time for every player in an alliance to get to a system, there isn't time to bat phone everyone in Eve to get involved, a fight that lasts ten hours gives time for all of this and more.
-unbalances ships, it doesn't matter what speed you warp at, because events going on in the TIDI are 10x slower, a ship that's balanced in a 100 man fight may become completely ineffective with 90% TIDI
-allows pilots to repeatedly come back to an engagement after dieing
-overemphasizes the importance of time zones and downtime, certain timezones have a ridiculous advantage, I'm actually a big advocate of variable downtimes
-makes the game less accessible to casual players
TiDi does the reverse of these things. The thing that make things happen more slowly is that there are more commands per tick than the server node can process. The net effect is the same: very large fights take far longer than they should. TiDi makes this deficit occur more evely and gracefully, instead of doing random things like never letting one side load grid, or randomly ignoring turrets cycling (this was why 1400mm arty was so popular for fleet fits a few years ago; when your RoF is determined by the whim of the server hamsters rather than the stats of your weapon, then you want the most bang for your unpredictably rationed buck.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Saisin
State War Academy
Caldari State
266
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Posted - 2015.07.05 20:54:19 -
[46] - Quote
I have the same feeling/issue than the OP about Tidi, and I too look forward to the dogma and BiaB projects' completion.
I will not return to large scale fleets until those are rolled out.
Eve offers plenty other options though, and among those Solo PvP is the most exciting thing I have done since B-R5RB, as it is more like hunting and fishing at the same time, requiring the patience of a fisherman and the skills of a hunter (like not spooking your prey, getting a kill shot not a wounding shot, and learning about your hunting grounds).
Do not discard Eve because of the large fleet component.
At some point, CCP will get it working
This said, I believe they should seriously consider capping the number of players on the same server cluster, and increase this cap as the technology progresses.
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope...
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Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
672
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Posted - 2015.07.22 06:27:24 -
[47] - Quote
Saisin wrote:This said, I believe they should seriously consider capping the number of players on the same server cluster, and increase this cap as the technology progresses.
It has been layed out many many times why this is a terrible idea, mainly because its so easy to metagame.
Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
you're welcome
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shadow-storm
The Constantins
Constantin Republic
1
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Posted - 2015.10.20 05:14:04 -
[48] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Right now, session changes are expensive, time wise. Watch a fleet taking multiple jumps, and you'll find it causing systems to go into TiDi. BiaB takes the work that happens at session change, and caches it (basically. It's more complex than that, but it's a good approximation) The dogma rewrite is something which is required to make that work. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diGYlJNpPEo may be of interest.
Actually a better way would be multiple instances..thats a method that -¦-¦Cry engine-¦-¦ uses for huge multiplayer battles
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
316
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Posted - 2015.10.20 11:36:36 -
[49] - Quote
How would instancing make the game better? You'd be just dividing the world up into little boxes and taking away the grandeur of massive battles. |
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
371
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Posted - 2015.11.01 23:23:25 -
[50] - Quote
There is no TiDi 
Do you think that's real air your character is breathing in game now?
Do you believe that your character being faster outside of TiDi has anything to do with your muscles in this place?
Regards, a Freelancer
PS: http://static.skynetblogs.be/media/32278/the_matrix_1999_blu-ray_pic01.gif
The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans.
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
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