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Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.28 19:13:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Tharrn Buy more Command Ships and make me happy! I earn more selling Armageddons than Command Ships :/ The profit margin is very slim.
Oh, don't worry... Command Ships will have their day soon, as more people train to use them and lose them.
They are only 'reasonably priced' (read: selling for over 100% build cost) at the moment because not many can fly them.
Until the comedy T2 market is sorted, its only a matter of time.
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.08.28 19:57:00 -
[212]
"Fair enough. Kali is coming, why are you discussing about ALL T2 is broken and how it WILL break EvE? It is getting fixed, what is there to discuss further?"
Shut up already Jenny, I am sure YOU LOVE nearly limitless money your making right now, but the fact THE FACT is hac prices are off period. It is being discussed because you know ~30k people log in each day who want to play this farking game they pay for mkay?
We are paying customers who want reasonable access to the games features. WE want some sense of balance, so while I am grinding my ass off trying to make some isk to buy something I don;t think it is fair because of some poorly thought out limited lottery function that the next guy does literally nothing to make absurd amounts of money so that he couldnt give a rats ass how many ships he looses.
Player made stuff is not supposed to be this magical rare items crap that is what officer drops are. IT is obvious the mistake was made and the strict limits that is now over isnt working. You understand that if the 8 hac bpo owners for what ever reason stop playing eve tomorrow there would never be another xxx hac created?
YEs kali is coming but people want to be sure this insanity stops, so we are voicing our opinions to make sure CCP isnt short sighted yet again on adressing this issue Get it? it isn't hard to understand.
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Larkonis Trassler
g guild
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Posted - 2006.08.28 20:38:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Hellspawn01 Maybe a limit for T2 items on the market might help. Like a max price for the ship that you can sell it for. This would stop some insane prices on the market and would kick resellers out of the business for pushing the prices up. You can still sell the ships over escrow and personal trades for your desired price but the market price would be abit more stable. Just an idea.
I'm sorry, but I haven't read anything so ridiculous on this thread yet! I thought the buzz word you were all after was a free market??? It seems that most peoples' gripes come not from T2 in general, the lottery system, availability, or prices but from the amount of money producers of certain HACs are making. However, I can't see these same people dishing out HACs at just over cost price if they were in possesion of a BPO.
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ZOMG!!!111 100K EMFI Share Lotto! 40 mil per ticket!!! |
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.28 20:43:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler
Originally by: Hellspawn01 Maybe a limit for T2 items on the market might help. Like a max price for the ship that you can sell it for. This would stop some insane prices on the market and would kick resellers out of the business for pushing the prices up. You can still sell the ships over escrow and personal trades for your desired price but the market price would be abit more stable. Just an idea.
I'm sorry, but I haven't read anything so ridiculous on this thread yet! I thought the buzz word you were all after was a free market??? It seems that most peoples' gripes come not from T2 in general, the lottery system, availability, or prices but from the amount of money producers of certain HACs are making. However, I can't see these same people dishing out HACs at just over cost price if they were in possesion of a BPO.
Well if you assume that all activities should have a reasonable risk/effort/reward ratio, then T2 BPOs are way offscale.
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Xendie
Hunter Killers
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Posted - 2006.08.28 20:53:00 -
[215]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 27/08/2006 21:55:47
Originally by: Xendie Random smack on T2 BPO owners ...
A true story. Somewhere in EvE, a kind ECM - Multispectral T2 producer made 150+ units and sold them around 2M a piece. The market price in that region was around 4M. In less than two days, they were all gone. Who is stupid? The buyer that buys at 4M or producer who sells at 2M? Producers arent evil people as you potrayed them to be. Blame buyers.
you still dont get it do you? its fully and completely CCP's fault
ill say it again "its fully and completely CCP's fault" did you get the idea now? i most certainly dont blaim the producers who obviously is selling the goods for as much as they can.
i am blaming CCP for handing so few ppl a isk printing machine with enough ink that will alst until CCP goes out of business. CCP needs to stop the insane isk printing machines ink supply after 3-4 months of printing.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Hunter Killers
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Posted - 2006.08.28 20:55:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler
Originally by: Hellspawn01 Maybe a limit for T2 items on the market might help. Like a max price for the ship that you can sell it for. This would stop some insane prices on the market and would kick resellers out of the business for pushing the prices up. You can still sell the ships over escrow and personal trades for your desired price but the market price would be abit more stable. Just an idea.
I'm sorry, but I haven't read anything so ridiculous on this thread yet! I thought the buzz word you were all after was a free market??? It seems that most peoples' gripes come not from T2 in general, the lottery system, availability, or prices but from the amount of money producers of certain HACs are making. However, I can't see these same people dishing out HACs at just over cost price if they were in possesion of a BPO.
and since there isnt a free market and no free competition i guess we will never know will we?
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.28 21:05:00 -
[217]
I dunno about the other T2 BPOs. Every time I see a whine, I will put +50M extra to current Vagabond prices. Not happy with the price, dont buy them. EvE is about player content, isnt it? At least that is what all the forum warriors are telling me. Not all contents must be easily accessible for players. EvE is about subjugation and submission. I doubt anyone wants to flood the market with mass Vagabonds and see their enemies fly Vagabond packs in and out of hostile territory like nobody's business.
Not happy with the price, dont buy them. The price will go down. Want overpowered stuffs? Find an overpowered wallet. EvE is not fair. Dont whine for it to be fair. I blame T2 producers for their kind tolerance at T2 whiners. All those smacks at them. I think they should increase their wares by another 50% to shut them up. --------- In the blindness, a streak fiery thread violently cuts the horizon. Bleeding golden mists, engulfing the blindness from within. Burning the darkness. The touch of dawn. |
Nafri
Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.08.28 21:13:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I dunno about the other T2 BPOs. Every time I see a whine, I will put +50M extra to current Vagabond prices. Not happy with the price, dont buy them. EvE is about player content, isnt it? At least that is what all the forum warriors are telling me. Not all contents must be easily accessible for players. EvE is about subjugation and submission. I doubt anyone wants to flood the market with mass Vagabonds and see their enemies fly Vagabond packs in and out of hostile territory like nobody's business.
Not happy with the price, dont buy them. The price will go down. Want overpowered stuffs? Find an overpowered wallet. EvE is not fair. Dont whine for it to be fair. I blame T2 producers for their kind tolerance at T2 whiners. All those smacks at them. I think they should increase their wares by another 50% to shut them up.
Maybe stop trolling?
Your post contains no info and has no arguments
From Dusk till Dawn
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.28 21:17:00 -
[219]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 28/08/2006 21:18:12
Originally by: Nafri Maybe stop trolling?
Your post contains no info and has no arguments
Dunno, I see so many of my good arguments in this thread. Not sure about yours though. --------- In the blindness, a streak fiery thread violently cuts the horizon. Bleeding golden mists, engulfing the blindness from within. Burning the darkness. The touch of dawn. |
Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.08.28 21:38:00 -
[220]
"I dunno about the other T2 BPOs. Every time I see a whine, I will put +50M extra to current Vagabond prices. Not happy with the price, dont buy them. EvE is about player content, isnt it? At least that is what all the forum warriors are telling me. Not all contents must be easily accessible for players. EvE is about subjugation and submission. I doubt anyone wants to flood the market with mass Vagabonds and see their enemies fly Vagabond packs in and out of hostile territory like nobody's business."
Hush child. We all know you love being spoiled with your hac blueprint. Your posts exemplifies why this issues truly needs a good fix, so some spoiled kid can be everyone boss.
Furthermore you don;t have the guts to raise your prices 50mill for each whine so STFU, and keep farming your EZ money.
Works like this literally 4 great hac's with 8 blueprints each 32 total is a rediculesly ez market monopoloy for a game that supposedly is supporting well over 100 THOUSAND players.
Look I will even say i think the entire loterry system was somewhat tolerable IF it just kept going and going as opposed to opps those 8 are gone nothing left wakka wakka wakka.
Lastly Yes eve is about player content, as well as balance, there is a big difference between player content being limited and it being closed off to 8 people out of 100k. Further more eve is about balance, something you now will have NO clue about. IMHO this entire hac thing should be deemed an exploit and you should loose your money, this is no different than me or some other player finding a lone frigate npc rat worth 1mill isk that insta spawns. Not your fault your just playing the game, I agree, it is 100% CCP's fault and they should rectify it NOW.
All the same though you should understand you have been able to make silly amounts of risk free and time free ISK in eve that is screams imbalance period. Part of these MMOG's responsibilty is to help ensure balance of gameplay.
So you can mark me down as a person not so much mad that HAC prices are high, so much as people have been able to legally exploit the limited hac BP's to make insane ISK with no effort. IF hac blue prints were widely available for those who wanted to produce them but the price was still high because they took longer to build I would not be complaining.
MY problem is I have to compete on the battlefield with someone like you ( and your corp as well who i am sure also enjoy the windfall of your lottery win) who has literally a infinite wallet, that was not earned it was lucked upon by a bad temporary game feature.
Also now as an infinite wallet board warrior, you will continue to comment on aspects of the game with nothing short of a skewed perspective simply because money is no longer a factor for you, unlike 99% of eve players.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.28 21:54:00 -
[221]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 28/08/2006 21:55:55
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Random gibberish.
<Insert name calling when cant win an argument>. What can I comment further?
EDIT: Make it polite and I might read past the first paragraph. --------- In the blindness, a streak fiery thread violently cuts the horizon. Bleeding golden mists, engulfing the blindness from within. Burning the darkness. The touch of dawn. |
Sammiel
Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.28 22:06:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 28/08/2006 21:55:55
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Random gibberish.
<Insert name calling when cant win an argument>. What can I comment further?
EDIT: Make it polite and I might read past the first paragraph.
You have failed to address any of the substantial criticisms (like mine at the top for example) and basically fell back on 'people are paying it.' Which is at best a strawman. No one is asserting that people aren't buying HACs at the inflated prices. They are arguing its a bad design.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.28 22:08:00 -
[223]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 28/08/2006 22:09:34
Originally by: Sammiel You have failed to address any of the substantial criticisms (like mine at the top for example) and basically fell back on 'people are paying it.' Which is at best a strawman. No one is asserting that people aren't buying HACs at the inflated prices. They are arguing its a bad design.
You asked nicely. I will answer you tomorrow. Tired.
EDIT: I didnt claim the current system is perfect. --------- In the blindness, a streak fiery thread violently cuts the horizon. Bleeding golden mists, engulfing the blindness from within. Burning the darkness. The touch of dawn. |
Sammiel
Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.28 22:15:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 28/08/2006 22:09:34
Originally by: Sammiel You have failed to address any of the substantial criticisms (like mine at the top for example) and basically fell back on 'people are paying it.' Which is at best a strawman. No one is asserting that people aren't buying HACs at the inflated prices. They are arguing its a bad design.
You asked nicely. I will answer you tomorrow. Tired.
EDIT: I didnt claim the current system is perfect.
Fair enough, also I realize my tone was probably coming off as overly hostile. I don't have a problem with you personally by any means, and so all my comments were directed at your arguments and not at you.
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.08.28 22:33:00 -
[225]
"<Insert name calling when cant win an argument>. What can I comment further?"
HAha no name calling , just apt descriptions sorry it hurts :( don;t act like a child and people will not adress you as one. Oh know wait I better be quite Jenny might raise her HAC prices again!
You can't comment further because there is nothing to say, you have been the benificiary of a very poorly implented game feature, and you are insisting you deserve to have EZ mode forever end of story. you really have had nothing to say beyond your first post which simply said "Waaaaaah I deserve EZ mode don't be jealous because i got lucky!" .
So feel free to stop posting until you have something additional to add
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.28 22:51:00 -
[226]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 28/08/2006 22:52:44
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 HAha no name calling , just apt descriptions sorry it hurts :( don;t act like a child and people will not adress you as one. Oh know wait I better be quite Jenny might raise her HAC prices again!
You can't comment further because there is nothing to say, you have been the benificiary of a very poorly implented game feature, and you are insisting you deserve to have EZ mode forever end of story. you really have had nothing to say beyond your first post which simply said "Waaaaaah I deserve EZ mode don't be jealous because i got lucky!" .
So feel free to stop posting until you have something additional to add
Sorry, sticks and stones will break my bones but forums name calling will never hurt me. Your posts only makes me realise the level of mentality of a three decade old person is amusing. I can comment further but I choose not to because I dont think you deserve my comment nor my energy nor the community's energy. It isnt worth it. Your posts are always full of whines.
Either you read what I have said in this thread and understand the explicit and implicit meaning or you dont. If your understanding is as good as your spelling, there isnt anything I can do for you. This is my last reply to you unless your posts show something intellectual than verbal diarrhoea. --------- In the blindness, a streak fiery thread violently cuts the horizon. Bleeding golden mists, engulfing the blindness from within. Burning the darkness. The touch of dawn. |
Gort
Rampage Eternal
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Posted - 2006.08.28 23:04:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Indomitus Rex Like Eralus said, the EVE market is nowhere close to a RL market.
In RL, when some company is making a killing off a product other people decide, "Hey, let's make a killing too!" and tons of other producers come into the equation. This in turn forces the original companies producing to either A) Make improvements or B) Sell it cheaper.
In EVE, there are only so many BPOs which inevitably end up in the hands of people who either A) Want to limit the production to their friends (alliance, corp, w/e) or B) Who want to sell them at a retardely high price because they won't ever have any competition. No one else can join that part of the market because of the lame lottery system.
Only way that the stranglehold gets eliminated is if the lottery system is changed, T2 HAC BPOs are put on the normal market, or my favorite. . .if CCP releases some better ships that make HACs pretty much obsolete. Don't really see that happening tho....
In real life only so many companies get to put "Ferrari" on the name plate. If you are Ford, you are out of luck, even if it does go as fast.
There. That's my inane comment of the day. Ok, maybe just the first....
Low-tech sig: "When in doubt, empty the magazine." |
Deja Thoris
Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.28 23:10:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Dunno, I see so many of my good arguments in this thread. Not sure about yours though.
I've yet to see one in this thread or many others that you "contribute" to.
T2 system is borked, now go and add 50mill ISK to the price of your vagas like a good like emo drama chick while telling yourself that 5x the subscribers and no change in bpo numbers makes sense
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Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.28 23:15:00 -
[229]
do { hac.price ++; forum.output += ":("; } while (hac.demand > hac.supply)
...or something.
/Ben
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Cmdr Sy
EUROPEANS
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Posted - 2006.08.28 23:18:00 -
[230]
Stick a T2 fitting on a T1 BC and have the same fun for 1/4 of the price.
Yes, you will look less cool. And you may die sooner. Sorry. *shrugs*
I don't blame anyone for blaming CCP, the T2 manufacturers, the resellers, the herd mentality, and various other scapegoats. We are where we are, HACS still cost 170m, the money is still going into the same pockets, and the choice remains the same - accept the loss of that quantity of ISK if able to do so, settle for second best if not able to do so.
It's just, do people really need to be quite so insulting to each other over this issue? We are all in the same boat. We all end up either losing ridiculous amounts of money, or not flying the ships in the first place. It's not any player's fault that the item is so cool, and so rare.
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Indomitus Rex
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.08.28 23:19:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Gort
Originally by: Indomitus Rex Like Eralus said, the EVE market is nowhere close to a RL market.
In RL, when some company is making a killing off a product other people decide, "Hey, let's make a killing too!" and tons of other producers come into the equation. This in turn forces the original companies producing to either A) Make improvements or B) Sell it cheaper.
In EVE, there are only so many BPOs which inevitably end up in the hands of people who either A) Want to limit the production to their friends (alliance, corp, w/e) or B) Who want to sell them at a retardely high price because they won't ever have any competition. No one else can join that part of the market because of the lame lottery system.
Only way that the stranglehold gets eliminated is if the lottery system is changed, T2 HAC BPOs are put on the normal market, or my favorite. . .if CCP releases some better ships that make HACs pretty much obsolete. Don't really see that happening tho....
In real life only so many companies get to put "Ferrari" on the name plate. If you are Ford, you are out of luck, even if it does go as fast.
There. That's my inane comment of the day. Ok, maybe just the first....
Wha???
Inane AND ignorant AND completely idiotic.
Deutschland. |
Jazz Bo
Caldari Plan 9 from Outer Space
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Posted - 2006.08.28 23:31:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
We are paying customers who want reasonable access to the games features.
And this is what CCP should be worried about. New content is one of the things that keeps veterans playing.
"Meh... bit bored, killed and lost enough battleships already. Maybe I should play another game instead.. hey what's this? New ships in the next patch! *patch arrives and some time passes* "Hey wtf... the new ships cost 300 million each, and can only be insured for 20 million! I can't afford to PvP in those... guess I'll quit after all..."
When HACs came out they cost 45-70 million. Yet there was a great deal of demand, you had to queue for weeks to get one. Still the price didn't go up, it only depended on the price of the components. See, back then the producers wanted people to fly the ships.
Greed.
That's what the current situation is all about. All this "I don't want all my enemies to fly one" is just horse****... poor excuses. Pew pew... ka-boom.... pew pew.... squisssh! |
Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.28 23:35:00 -
[233]
Alot of it is component and resource suppliers as well. Remember when mission runners sold the stuff to build the components (and ran up prices)? CCP fixed that and brought them down. We just need to wait for Kali and new research opportunities thats what I'm working for.
Archbishop
WIN A ZEALOT
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Guillame Herschel
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.28 23:38:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire EvE is about player content, isnt it?
No player has every created a HAC or any other ship. The amount of player-created content in this game is practically nil, and what original content there is consists of mostly of constellations of named secure cans.
Show me the Jenny Spitfire version of the Vangabond, then you'll have shown me actual player-created content.
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MysticNZ
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2006.08.29 00:00:00 -
[235]
I refuse to buy hacs for their price. I don't really care for them anyway. /me loves his cyclone and rupture kitted out.
There are plenty of other ships to use. -=====-
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Xendie
Hunter Killers
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Posted - 2006.08.29 00:13:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 28/08/2006 21:18:12
Originally by: Nafri Maybe stop trolling?
Your post contains no info and has no arguments
Dunno, I see so many of my good arguments in this thread. Not sure about yours though.
its funny though as the only argument you have spouted from start to end is "dont buy it them" and i dont consider that a argument either against or for CCP's current bad design of T2 BPO's, i see it as a output of your own fear of maybe loosing a constant isk print. you bring no valid ideas to fix the current system at all so you are infact just trolling. nafri was spot on with the post she made.
and fyi, only tech2 i fly is BS and shuttles and i dont fly those alot on any of my characters so its not a isk problem for me. the game is advertized as a pvp game in every aspect and a player run free market but even years after T2 has been released there is still no free market nor any player vs player in the T2 market. a select few who suspicioucsly have gotten up to 8 BPO's and maybe more on some has been able to print isk with absolutely no competition at all for years with the current flawed system.
so jenny when you post next time try and think out some kind of idea to fix the current system instead of spouting the same mantra over and over again pls.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Father Weebles
RoadKill Pickup Services
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Posted - 2006.08.29 00:19:00 -
[237]
ban resellers for life
add a lot of bpos/bpcs
problems solved
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Karandor
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Posted - 2006.08.29 00:33:00 -
[238]
If you produce any components for tech 2 construction you know that they are almost as profitable as the ships themselves. It does require effort and a significant down payment but once you get production running the money is incredible.
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Tharrn
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2006.08.29 00:47:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Butter Dog
They are only 'reasonably priced' (read: selling for over 100% build cost) at the moment because not many can fly them.
I hope you don't mean 100% profit, because for Damnations it's more like 20% of the build cost (~80 million production cost, ~95 million going rate \O/).
Now recruiting!
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Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.29 01:45:00 -
[240]
Edited by: Butter Dog on 29/08/2006 01:46:02
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I dunno about the other T2 BPOs. Every time I see a whine, I will put +50M extra to current Vagabond prices. Not happy with the price, dont buy them. EvE is about player content, isnt it? At least that is what all the forum warriors are telling me. Not all contents must be easily accessible for players. EvE is about subjugation and submission. I doubt anyone wants to flood the market with mass Vagabonds and see their enemies fly Vagabond packs in and out of hostile territory like nobody's business.
Not happy with the price, dont buy them. The price will go down. Want overpowered stuffs? Find an overpowered wallet. EvE is not fair. Dont whine for it to be fair. I blame T2 producers for their kind tolerance at T2 whiners. All those smacks at them. I think they should increase their wares by another 50% to shut them up.
This post contains no sensible arguements or even a hint at reasoned discussion.
Jenny you should save face now and stop your desperate trolling. The majority of posters can see the current system flies in the face of EVE's otherwise excellent economic model. Now stop jealously guarding the status quo, because your time will soon be up.
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