You're not making a lick of sense now, other than an irrational insistence you have to be right. Of course ISK makes a difference and determines the risk.

NEWS FLASH: It's not just a multi-player game either. Guess what there are solo players (I know quite a shock to gankers) and guess what? Solo players, new players - like the relative safety of hi-sec. Get used to it - and don't feel you're entitled just because you're in a giant sociopathic grief group.

As far as I know, CCP advertises the game for solo play and group play. It's suppose to be for all kinds of players: not just yahoo gankers in Uedama.

NEWS FLASH: It's not just a multi-player game either. Guess what there are solo players (I know quite a shock to gankers) and guess what? Solo players, new players - like the relative safety of hi-sec. Get used to it - and don't feel you're entitled just because you're in a giant sociopathic grief group.

As far as I know, CCP advertises the game for solo play and group play. It's suppose to be for all kinds of players: not just yahoo gankers in Uedama.

Wrong. Not all of Eve is nul-sec.

Oh, so you admit that context helps with building things? You mean like putting a poorly built video game system in context within the world it was built in and trying to relate that to the real world to show why it doesn't make sense? Glad to know we agree.

One of the more reasonable arguments I have read. I still think though that the RISK vs REWARD equation is not equal when a bunch of cheap dessies can take down a multi-billion freighter in hi-sec. The gankers need to put out more if they want to gank in hi-sec IMO.

I don't believe organizing an alliance group to gank in dessies are equivalent to the amount of loss to an Industrialist losing a multi-billion hull along with whatever she had in that hull (which can be billions too). This will especially be true regarding rigged ships.

Yes - it does take effort to organize a large gank group. But is equivalent - nope.

There needs to be a space for new players and players who want to be free of griefers like the Goon alliance.

Hell, if any of these guys were in an actual PvP fight - I doubt they'd be able to tell the difference between their butts and black holes in space.

I am also chuckling quite heartily at the Goon Knuckleheads & Trolls who fail time & again to defend Highsec ganking. It shouldn't surprise me that people who have regularly established themselves as Sociopaths & Antisocials would be ok with an activity that is the online equivalent of battery.

Uh - there are quite a few solo players in Eve. And even more players who like to switch between solo play and group play. But we got the Goons who want everyone to have a fleet of ships every time they fly their freighter in hi-sec. Because - it's the victims fault that they fly freighters in hi-sec.

Goon logic.

being in highsec doesn't grant you special purchase from this ironclad fact of life in Eve: Online, a spaceship game

You are correct, the ganker is not responsible for that. What they are responsible for is pulling the trigger.

Or are you telling me that victim blaming suddenly became a valid argument and that you believe such things like women are responsible for sexual assault because they didn't dress appropriately?

Actually - I think hi-sec should be gank proof, unless someone war-decs you. The ganking going on in Uedama right now is just another kind of griefing IMO.

But that's just my opinion, and I know you and others don't agree with me. I really have found it misguided that there seems to be this ironclad motto in Eve that gankers should have free reign anywhere in the game. I think it narrows the game quite a bit. Really - to open up the game to all kinds of players you should allow for different areas (as in most MMOs) where different play styles and game playing can be encouraged.

This is a space simulation - so you got an unlimited canvas to create an almost unlimited amount of different mechanics, environments, ships, deployments etc. To make the game only fun so a certain alliance can grief players who just are out missioning or doing incursioning etc in hi-sec - an area designated in Eve as suppose to be pretty safe - I think does a disservice to what I suspect is a pretty large base of players who enjoy Eve without having to deal with the gankers or even PvP.

What's limiting here is the mindset and insistence that all areas of Eve must absolutely be played like you're in nul-sec. It's a counter-productive view of Eve and limiting. I hope the future development of Eve takes this narrow view into account- and broadens its player base by allowing all sorts of gameplay in the sandbox - providing different areas for gameplay - and not making Eve into one huge force projection for one alliance that wants to dictate everything in the game and thereby ruining the gameplay for many.

Yeah - that's so funny!

Seriously. Seriously!

What makes eve online beautiful and unique is different for different people and different types of gameplay. Stop trying to make the rest of us play only the game you want to play.

You people talk about suicide ganking like ever freighter gets blown up the first time it undocks.

I've been flying through Uedama the last few months almost regularly every day - usually in a Viator, which by the way, is pretty impervious to the gankfest going on (so apparently Eve isn't all about just making every ship gankable).

It's been like a wreck junkyard in there (especially on the weekends) - of mostly destroyer hulls and single freighter hulls. You say it isn't hard "folks". Well tell that to the folks who've had their freighters ganked these last few months by a bunch of cheap dessies - that cost about 20% - 25% of what their freighter cost. You tell me who is taking the big risks here - in an area of the game that is SUPPOSE to be relatively safe for moving goods around.

If the intent of hi-sec is not suppose to be safe - then why is there a hi-sec at all? Why not make the game all nul-sec where as you claim everyone can fly in their freighters and be perfectly safe like you can?

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Perhaps a better question to ask is what is the intent of hi-sec? To allow the Risk vs Reward design concept in Eve to be abrogated by a group of cheap destroyers taking down a very expensive freighter hull?

................... - but I've been away from the game for a year. ................. an unfair Risk vs. Reward equation. ........................ It just seems a bit ridiculous to me to release it and have it so easily susceptible to being ganked by cheap dessies. And look - that's what is going on - I see it nearly every day in Uedama which IS a choke point between Dodixie and Jita.

.......................- especially for players new to the game who might want to enjoy the safety of hi-sec and be able to move their ships around in a tugboat that isn't easily susceptible to a large alliance that has nothing better to do (apparently) then to gank defenseless ships in hi-sec.

Frankly I think it seems more central to your argument than you are making it out to be. But other than that and "kill rights", I still don't think you have any real data to back up your point. I've seen no decrease in hi sec ganking/high sec griefing activity despite all the changes over the past year or two.

This does make me wonder if the real design goal of the Bowhead is just to provide more cannon fodder for gankers? Since as it stands now - unless you fly with it in a fleet or dual account play and have some kind of logistics, you're going to have to say bye bye to your Bowhead everytime a group of 20 cheap dessies and their CODE? leader want to gank it in hi-sec.

This does make me wonder if the real design goal of the Bowhead is just to provide more cannon fodder for gankers? Since as it stands now - unless you fly with it in a fleet or dual account play and have some kind of logistics, you're going to have to say bye bye to your Bowhead everytime a group of 20 cheap dessies and their CODE? leader want to gank it in hi-sec.

Why invariably is the gankers answer to players who want to fly solo a hauler in hi-sec - that no, sorry you shouldn't play solo?

How many times does one have to repeat that 1) there are quite a few players in Eve that play solo and enjoy playing solo 2) that Eve should allow for all types of play in the sandbox (it's a big universe) - not just group play and not just game mechanics that cater to gankers who like to prey upon defenseless easy victims?

ps: By the way I have played Eve both in groups and solo. I like both. Sue me.

Counting the wrecks I saw in Uedama, I suspect the number of destroyers needed is actually smaller. But even assuming what you say is the bare minimum - 35 destroyers, which being wildly conservative here - cost 10mil a piece - that's 350mil to take down a 1bill+ freighter that you probably have already scanned and know exactly what's in the cargo hold - and would attack unless you knew the loot would be worth it.

A freighter by the way that is flying solo in hi-sec, that is pretty much defenseless other than CONCORD which you as gankers have well timed, so you know exactly what you need to take the freighter down and loot it.

So for the cost of 350mil - you get at least a 200% profit and probably even more. You also destroy 300% what you spent in hull damage to your victim. So not only do you make a huge profit from your ganking, you also cause a lot more ISK damage to your victim - who like most freighter pilots in hi-sec fly solo - because they assume they are safe with CONCORD - or they assume 35 cheap dessies shouldn't be able to take down a freighter in hi-sec because hi-sec is suppose to be relatively safe (unless someone has wardecc'd you).

Currently I think the RISK vs REWARD for gankers in hi-sec (not low-sec or nul-sec) is imbalanced. Gankers should have to put out more and sacrifice more if they want to gank in hi-sec. If gankers want to take down a 1bil freighter in hi-sec, then they ought to be willing to sacrifice 1bil in ship hulls to do it. After all - that's exactly what their victims are losing and have been losing like no tomorrow in Uedama and elsewhere.

Is it just me, or is there some kind of prejudice against solo players? What the heck is wrong with wanting to be a solo industrialist in Eve? Or having an alt that is a solo Industrialist? Am I the only one that has an alt that does this? I doubt it very much tbh.

Actually it's the gankers here that have been arguing for "entitlement" i.e. their entitlement to use a bunch of cheap dessies to take down a Billion+ freighter and its goods.

Counting the wrecks I saw in Uedama

Yeah - that's what I'm saying. If you spend a billion ISK on a freighter, than something around a billion ISK should be spent to take it down in hi-sec. That gankers shouldn't be entitled to take it down unless they also risk what the freighter pilot is risking - a billion ISK.