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Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
425
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Posted - 2014.11.17 17:47:07 -
[181] - Quote
Saisin wrote:I really like the reference Fozzie made about Sigil, the Dungeons & Dragons planescape city connected to all other realms and dimensions...
There is great potential, I am just concerned that four stations only may be too easy to shut down by the largest groups... That depends on the stations. What if they themselves were huge, and had multiple undocking points; you couldn't cloak up beside them with out being 10's of kilometers from the undock.
I am a pod pilot:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
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Ardevealca Capella
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.11.17 17:51:58 -
[182] - Quote
Will there be asteroid belts full of mercoxit ore? |
Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
182
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Posted - 2014.11.17 18:57:55 -
[183] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:Saisin wrote:I really like the reference Fozzie made about Sigil, the Dungeons & Dragons planescape city connected to all other realms and dimensions...
There is great potential, I am just concerned that four stations only may be too easy to shut down by the largest groups... That depends on the stations. What if they themselves were huge, and had multiple undocking points; you couldn't cloak up beside them with out being 10's of kilometers from the undock.
Or what if they had station guns that worked like CONCORD?
Thera will be really cool on release, but solutions to the station problem will need to be implemented with further releases. I guarantee it. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5675
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 20:11:31 -
[184] - Quote
Snagletooth Johnson wrote:Bwhahahah. A merchant going to Thera will be like driving a beer truck through Detroit...at night...with the doors open...with Ice Cream truck music playing...while stuck in second gear...
...I could go on, but I think you all get the point.
:-D I LOLed!
I would also add: with Bud Girls hanging off the back.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6009
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Posted - 2014.11.17 22:54:33 -
[185] - Quote
Telegram Sam wrote:Late in discussion, but OP's posted video was excellent, I thought. Well reasoned, fact-checked, background researched, precision edited, and voice-presented like a Morgan Freeman. Total pro. Do you get paid for this kind of stuff in RL?
Will check your 'Youtube channel again. Thanks for that!. I just need to get off my lazy butt and get on the test server.
Too much time editing, not enough time playing.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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Aaron
Eternal Frontier
157
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Posted - 2014.11.17 23:29:05 -
[186] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
And this means that nobody will be hunting the hunters because you don't maximize your ISK doing that.
Hey Herzog, Hope you are well.
I've been watching the topic of Thera as this is something I am very interested in.
I think that the introduction of Thera will prompt the rise of the security corps/alliances who for a fee will attempt to keep people safe within Thera. If this is Truly going to be a Jita without concord then all of the stations will be perma camped.
I think something like Hub Zero could work here because working in a team has lots of advantages. If Hub Zero has taught me anything it's the fact that there are some cool guys out there who like to help people. There are lots of people who would enjoy helping others get to Thera for example scout a wormhole entrance for them to see if its camped. Intel sharing among a trusted group could be valuable to those involved.
My future actions may involve starting a corp that specializes in security for Thera, I may also create an alliance for small corps and solo players who want a better chance at survival within Thera. I would want to aim it at helping the little guy.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
6
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Posted - 2014.11.18 09:44:27 -
[187] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:Saisin wrote:I really like the reference Fozzie made about Sigil, the Dungeons & Dragons planescape city connected to all other realms and dimensions...
There is great potential, I am just concerned that four stations only may be too easy to shut down by the largest groups... That depends on the stations. What if they themselves were huge, and had multiple undocking points; you couldn't cloak up beside them with out being 10's of kilometers from the undock.
you seriosuly think people would need to cloak? lol This wouldn't be covert campage, this would be blob gankage. There's going to be no subtly about the camping of these four stations. |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
380
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Posted - 2014.11.18 09:53:03 -
[188] - Quote
Two stations 350km apart -> place a hictors in undocks -> place a snipe fleet in middle -> go to town.
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Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
6
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Posted - 2014.11.18 09:59:43 -
[189] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Two stations 350km apart -> place a hictors in undocks -> place a snipe fleet in middle -> go to town.
weren't they 350 AU apart? ... that would be some damn long snipage! |
ggodhsup
internet spaceship relocation movement
14
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Posted - 2014.11.18 10:09:01 -
[190] - Quote
im excited about this place....im also really curious about how they intend to keep the stations form being camped till down time everyday.
aught to be fun either way. |
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Square PI
Hedion University Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2014.11.18 12:31:35 -
[191] - Quote
Every time CCP tried to "control" the player trade hubs it failed.
Does everyone remember Yulai?
The player decide where they want to do the trades. And if the new system is worth it, it might happen that the trades move over to it. But i really doubt it. |
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
6
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Posted - 2014.11.18 13:21:12 -
[192] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:A couple of reasons:
1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out.
2: It's connected to... literally... everywhere. Depending on how this is handled it could be the most convenient market hub in all of New Eden.
yup, difficutl and impossible to lock down four points? Four stations is four points. And unless stations are gunna be several AU wide, no matter how big they are a gang will be able to run around it easy as pie. One gang on each gate. You just have to look at the perma 'camp' outside several HI-sec places right now - 0.0 alliances can easily replicate that if they choose to base out of a system for strategic control.
And don't forget, strategic control is not always about aquisition of something for using it. It can quite often be aquisiation so that your opponent can't use it.
So, saying a system is big ... is irrelevant to saying it can't be locked down. Make 20 stations, or 30 ... 'then' you might be getting close to a massive headache to lock it down for even the larger alliances. But even then, it's not 'impossible'.
You don't need a massive number of ships to prevent trade. The threat alone is enough to stifle it significantly.
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Ralen Zateki
Void.Tech Get Off My Lawn
178
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Posted - 2014.11.18 16:40:50 -
[193] - Quote
[quote1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out.[/quote]
Yup. Just like Titans were too big and too resource intensive for anyone to... uh... oopsy... nevermind.
Ya I'll check it out just 'cuz every now and then I like to visit the zoo. And I love the driving through Detroit analogy... |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
380
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Posted - 2014.11.18 18:03:59 -
[194] - Quote
Leannor wrote:Baneken wrote:Two stations 350km apart -> place a hictors in undocks -> place a snipe fleet in middle -> go to town. weren't they 350 AU apart? ... that would be some damn long snipage!
There are 4 stations in total of which 2 are 350AU and 2 are only 350km a part i.e. practically on same grid. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6964
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 19:11:19 -
[195] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Leannor wrote:Baneken wrote:Two stations 350km apart -> place a hictors in undocks -> place a snipe fleet in middle -> go to town. weren't they 350 AU apart? ... that would be some damn long snipage! There are 4 stations in total of which 2 are 350AU and 2 are only 350km a part i.e. practically on same grid. They are on the same grid, that's where everyone is brawling on sisi
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
5207
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 19:16:25 -
[196] - Quote
One block of compressed veldspar is 417 m-¦. These should be a mandatory item to put into the cargo for anyone jumping into Thera from k-space. Only way to get anything close to industry going there.
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
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Bed Bugg
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:01:54 -
[197] - Quote
If the system can be locked down... It will be.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6012
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Posted - 2014.11.19 01:14:19 -
[198] - Quote
Leannor wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:A couple of reasons:
1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out.
2: It's connected to... literally... everywhere. Depending on how this is handled it could be the most convenient market hub in all of New Eden. yup, difficutl and impossible to lock down four points? Four stations is four points. And unless stations are gunna be several AU wide, no matter how big they are a gang will be able to run around it easy as pie. One gang on each gate. You just have to look at the perma 'camp' outside several HI-sec places right now - 0.0 alliances can easily replicate that if they choose to base out of a system for strategic control. And don't forget, strategic control is not always about aquisition of something for using it. It can quite often be aquisiation so that your opponent can't use it. So, saying a system is big ... is irrelevant to saying it can't be locked down. Make 20 stations, or 30 ... 'then' you might be getting close to a massive headache to lock it down for even the larger alliances. But even then, it's not 'impossible'. You don't need a massive number of ships to prevent trade. The threat alone is enough to stifle it significantly. Hello leannor, one point that you and the poster above you should remember is that the statement you have quoted was made well before it was revealed that there would be only 4 NPC stations in Thera.
That being said, it will still be next to impossible to for a single organization to effectively lock down the "system"... but unless there is more to be revealed it will be fairly easy to lock down the "stations".
So yes, unfortunately a relatively small force can prevent most of the commercial features of Thera to go unused as it stands now... but even a very large entity is unlikely to prevent large amounts of traffic from using Thera's other advantage as a major hub for travel and PVP activity. Much still depends though on just how many high sec statics they are, where those statics go, and how many (and how frequently) wandering wormholes open up there.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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Aaron
Eternal Frontier
159
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Posted - 2014.11.19 03:46:16 -
[199] - Quote
Lets face it, it will be easy to do a covert camp on the wormhole entrances that lead to more populated K-space. We all think in similar ways and Freighters will obviously gain access to Thera via hi sec entrances because it will be less risk going via null or 0.0. I very much doubt the solo guy with a freighter will ever risk bringing it in. I think K-space alliances and wormhole corps will lead the way in stocking markets because they have the manpower to provide heavy escorts and they already do similar operations on a daily.
We also have to consider that if the sleeper sites are going to be level 3/4 and if there are more of them that respawn faster then people may adapt and not even bother using the stations.
I think this is about coin. Whoever controls Thera can sell blue status for a large fee and use the coin to equip their men ensure stations are not camped. There are ways to stop a station being camped if you can get a good set of guys together.
I feel as if this is my calling, The defence of a single system is right up my street and it is something I am keen to do again.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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James Rapture
Dead Star Syndicate I'd Rather Be Roaming
5
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Posted - 2014.11.19 16:02:48 -
[200] - Quote
I think there is a reason why CCP wants Thera to be a hub. This system will be the staging point when player created stargates come around. Why so much room in the system? To prevent it from being locked down? Maybe. Probably. But I think it also to have plenty of room around for groups to setup shop for mini mobile bases and/or stargate building projects. As someone mentioned before, you can live in a WH out of POS. The idea of a Sigil type of city is closer than we think. A system with doors to everywhere known, to lead to anywhere unknown... |
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Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
9
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Posted - 2014.11.19 16:19:46 -
[201] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Hello leannor, one point that you and the poster above you should remember is that the statement you have quoted was made well before it was revealed that there would be only 4 NPC stations in Thera. That being said, it will still be next to impossible to for a single organization to effectively lock down the "system"... but unless there is more to be revealed it will be fairly easy to lock down the "stations". So yes, unfortunately a relatively small force can cause most of the commercial features of Thera to go unused as it stands now... but even a very large entity is unlikely to prevent large amounts of traffic from using Thera's other advantage as a major hub for travel and PVP activity. Much still depends though on just how many high sec statics there are, where those statics go, and how many (and how frequently) wandering wormholes open up there.
Good response.
My thoughts would that if itGÇÖs going to be a hub, that means trade (as in make/buy/sell) or occupation (ie extract/indy/pvp), it has to revolve around stations. Unless there is some major revolutionary mechanism that will move EVE activity away from stations GÇô and that would be GÇÿmajorGÇÖ. The use of POS in WH is close, but it still feels small to me, and certainly wouldnGÇÖt be the idea in Thera it seems.
If itGÇÖs not a Hub as above, then there really is no other kind of Hub. Transport hubs in EVE have another name: Choke Points. And if this is just a transport hub, then itGÇÖs going to be a Choke Point. Albeit with a difference, lots of moving entry points, potential for player constructed (private use?) gates etc GǪ
You canGÇÖt just GÇÿnameGÇÖ a system as a Hub. HubGÇÖs develop naturally out of demand and opportunity. ThatGÇÖs why Yulai is dead now, the demand was there but the opportunity got taken away when it became isolated. Literally overnight.
And, if it is stations based, then, something will need to be done to prevent four perma camps (even if they rotate between a few factions they will still prevent free and open trade GÇô proper traders needs routine, not waste gaps of inaccessibility).
This, regardless, will be interesting to watch though. nüè
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
|
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
96
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 17:27:18 -
[202] - Quote
Give me a reason to. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6015
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 00:55:25 -
[203] - Quote
Leannor wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Hello leannor, one point that you and the poster above you should remember is that the statement you have quoted was made well before it was revealed that there would be only 4 NPC stations in Thera. That being said, it will still be next to impossible to for a single organization to effectively lock down the "system"... but unless there is more to be revealed it will be fairly easy to lock down the "stations". So yes, unfortunately a relatively small force can cause most of the commercial features of Thera to go unused as it stands now... but even a very large entity is unlikely to prevent large amounts of traffic from using Thera's other advantage as a major hub for travel and PVP activity. Much still depends though on just how many high sec statics there are, where those statics go, and how many (and how frequently) wandering wormholes open up there. Good response. My thoughts would that if itGÇÖs going to be a hub, that means trade (as in make/buy/sell) or occupation (ie extract/indy/pvp), it has to revolve around stations. Unless there is some major revolutionary mechanism that will move EVE activity away from stations GÇô and that would be GÇÿmajorGÇÖ. The use of POS in WH is close, but it still feels small to me, and certainly wouldnGÇÖt be the idea in Thera it seems. If itGÇÖs not a Hub as above, then there really is no other kind of Hub. Transport hubs in EVE have another name: Choke Points. And if this is just a transport hub, then itGÇÖs going to be a Choke Point. Albeit with a difference, lots of moving entry points, potential for player constructed (private use?) gates etc GǪ You canGÇÖt just GÇÿnameGÇÖ a system as a Hub. HubGÇÖs develop naturally out of demand and opportunity. ThatGÇÖs why Yulai is dead now, the demand was there but the opportunity got taken away when it became isolated. Literally overnight. And, if it is stations based, then, something will need to be done to prevent four perma camps (even if they rotate between a few factions they will still prevent free and open trade GÇô proper traders needs routine, not waste gaps of inaccessibility). This, regardless, will be interesting to watch though. nüè Indeed it will.
I have left thoughts on why we keep fixating on only part of Fozzies statement that it will be like a "Jita without Concord".... IE we focus on the Jita reference, and tend to ignore the rest of the statement. Jita without Concord would actually not be a trade hub any longer, but merely a killzone of epic proportions until another hub evolved.
I won't go into that again, but something else occurred to me as I read your post. We all heard of the tentative plans to evolve POS's into something more than they are now... and we also know that they should be revamped relatively soon. The reason why I bring this up in relation to Thera is that some of the things discussed about the future of POS's might be relevant. That being:
Being able to place them anywhere, not just at moons. Being able to link multiple POS structures together, in effect form POS cities or outposts. Being able to trade from them, even have market access.
These are all things Greyscale has tentatively proposed, and we have no idea if this is the direction they will go in or if another direction entirely has been developed. But this might possibly (slim chance I know) explain why there are only 4 NPC stations in Thera.
Just a thought, but I felt it was worth mentioning.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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Aaron
Eternal Frontier
159
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 01:45:37 -
[204] - Quote
Hmmm, I've had a think about the stations in Thera and I've come to the conclusion that they are red herrings. By that I mean the stations may be a distraction for the people who need to feel like they have achieved something by ensuring no one can dock/undock. Thera will have many wormholes leading into it, this is now fact and It would be easier for players to base themselves out of a K-space station and scan their way into Thera daily to do sites. if the gas/mining is that of a class 6 wormhole then it will be rewarding.
Who in their right mind would buy from a market where they probably couldn't dock anyway and prices would be high due to the high risk involved in getting it there. The better option would be to scan a wormhole to K-space and buy at a reasonable price. The cost of buying a 1mn mwd II will probably be 12 million plus the entire value of whatever ship you're flying.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6015
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 01:50:25 -
[205] - Quote
Aaron wrote:Hmmm, I've had a think about the stations in Thera and I've come to the conclusion that they are red herrings. By that I mean the stations may be a distraction for the people who need to feel like they have achieved something by ensuring no one can dock/undock. Thera will have many wormholes leading into it, this is now fact and It would be easier for players to base themselves out of a K-space station and scan their way into Thera daily to do sites. if the gas/mining is that of a class 6 wormhole then it will be rewarding.
Who in their right mind would buy from a market where they probably couldn't dock anyway and prices would be high due to the high risk involved in getting it there. The better option would be to scan a wormhole to K-space and buy at a reasonable price. The cost of buying a 1mn mwd II will probably be 12 million plus the entire value of whatever ship you're flying.
I tend to agree (at least with things as they currently are).
As it stands any new trade hubs are much more likely to spring up where ever the static wormholes reside in k space.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6015
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 01:51:13 -
[206] - Quote
Aaron wrote:Hmmm, I've had a think about the stations in Thera and I've come to the conclusion that they are red herrings. By that I mean the stations may be a distraction for the people who need to feel like they have achieved something by ensuring no one can dock/undock. Thera will have many wormholes leading into it, this is now fact and It would be easier for players to base themselves out of a K-space station and scan their way into Thera daily to do sites. if the gas/mining is that of a class 6 wormhole then it will be rewarding.
Who in their right mind would buy from a market where they probably couldn't dock anyway and prices would be high due to the high risk involved in getting it there. The better option would be to scan a wormhole to K-space and buy at a reasonable price. The cost of buying a 1mn mwd II will probably be 12 million plus the entire value of whatever ship you're flying.
I tend to agree (at least with things as they currently are).
As it stands any new trade hubs are much more likely to spring up where ever the static wormholes reside in k space, then using Thera as a handy route to other locations.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
|
Vyl Vit
874
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 08:11:34 -
[207] - Quote
So, has this Thera become the dream come true for those who invent as they go along? OR...we'll see, won't we?
Anyone with any sense has already left town.
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Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 08:16:01 -
[208] - Quote
A trade hub without trade is no trade hub. Without commerce there is no Jita. People go to Jita because its safe aside from wannabe scammers. A trade hub that does not allow traders to safely conduct trade makes no sense. Aside from the local scams. Why should people go there to get scammed? |
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
12
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 09:01:45 -
[209] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:
Indeed it will.
I have left thoughts in other threads as to why we keep fixating on only part of Fozzies statement that it will be like a "Jita without Concord".... IE we focus on the Jita reference, and tend to ignore the rest of the statement. Jita without Concord would actually not be a trade hub any longer, but merely a killzone of epic proportions until another hub evolved.
I won't go into that again, but something else occurred to me as I read your post. We all heard of the tentative plans to evolve POS's into something more than they are now... and we also know that they should be revamped relatively soon. The reason why I bring this up in relation to Thera is that some of the things discussed about the future of POS's might be relevant. That being:
Being able to place them anywhere, not just at moons. Being able to link multiple POS structures together, in effect form POS cities or outposts.Being able to trade from them, even have market access.
These are all things Greyscale has tentatively proposed, and we have no idea if this is the direction they will go in or if another direction entirely has been developed. But this might possibly (slim chance I know) explain why there are only 4 NPC stations in Thera.
Just a thought, but I felt it was worth mentioning.
OMG Droolage!! Make me a hamster / ewok city and I'm HAPPY! lol.
but seriosuly, that would be awesome, for me anyway!
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
|
Fizy45
TURKISH BROTHERS
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 09:50:08 -
[210] - Quote
Because that its brand new most of the capsuleers out there will want to have a look in it and some big alliences are aware of it.
So after few lucky entries some group folks will jump in and create a nightmare for many others who tries to enter and even if you can enter the place around the stations and other places will be mess.
So unless you are really experienced or lucky or with a big fleet going there in first days will be a suicide...
Also let me remind you that long warp times will be boring for many players too. |
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