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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5967
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 17:15:41 -
[1] - Quote
Since we are about to have a new type of space introduced to New Eden, and THERA is poised to be the largest and most important system in that new type of space, who is going to be moving there on a permanent or part time basis?
Perhaps more importantly, who is going to try and control it, if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?
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Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
805
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 17:20:44 -
[2] - Quote
I had thought about it, but nah. I expect that system to be a total nightmare to navigate for at least the first couple of months. Granted, it will be extremely...vibrant, but I am actually somewhat concerned that it won't get the chance to blossom into it's full potential. See, a trade hub isn't a trade hub, unless there's stuff there actually worth buying and using. I pity the first few thousand ships that try to get anything in or out.
Just imagine Jita...with bubbles. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6666
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 17:21:31 -
[3] - Quote
i will certainly poke my head in and have it blown off.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Ama Scelesta
100
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 17:24:11 -
[4] - Quote
I will get a jump clone in there, but as said until there is a working market with decent amount of equipment there, there is little point in trying to make it your base of operations. |
Jvpiter
Jovelike
6
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 17:39:51 -
[5] - Quote
Thera could truly become the Mos Eisley of our little universe.
I may not even miss the muppets in Jita Local. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
7155
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 17:41:05 -
[6] - Quote
Jvpiter wrote:
Thera could truly become the Mos Eisley of our little universe.
I may not even miss the muppets in Jita Local.
Muppets always find a way.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5967
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 17:45:12 -
[7] - Quote
For those that aren't up to speed on what is known (and unknown at this point) about Thera, you can find it here: THERA
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Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1276
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 17:46:02 -
[8] - Quote
I'll definitely check it out but I see no reason to "live" there as it will be a complete zoo and I don't have alts anymore (lol).
CCP has no sense of humour.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5967
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 17:47:31 -
[9] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:I'll definitely check it out but I see no reason to "live" there as it will be a complete zoo and I don't have alts anymore (lol). There are a lot of folks flying around who would feel right at home calling a zoo "home".
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Ka'Narlist
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
250
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Posted - 2014.11.11 17:48:03 -
[10] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?
Jita means a major trade hub where everyone and their mother brings their stuff to sell it. How do you think this will happen in a system where everyone is ganking everyone? |
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Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1276
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 17:50:30 -
[11] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: There are a lot of folks flying around who would feel right at home calling a zoo "home". This is not to say that I don't enjoy a zoo, just that my point was that I don't have any high-sec money-making alts anymore and I highly doubt that I'd be able to make any steady ISK in that system. One account and limits on RL cash kind of dictate my play. Although Thera will certainly be very nice for regular visits...
CCP has no sense of humour.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5967
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 17:50:52 -
[12] - Quote
Ka'Narlist wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?
Jita means a major trade hub where everyone and their mother brings their stuff to sell it. How do you think this will happen in a system where everyone is ganking everyone? A couple of reasons:
1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out.
2: It's connected to... literally... everywhere. Depending on how this is handled it could be the most convenient market hub in all of New Eden.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5655
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 17:56:45 -
[13] - Quote
It will be an experiment in what it would be like to not have gates.
Meaning no bubble camps galore.
I'm not planning on using it though, as epic as the idea seems, but mainly because my time to play is considerably lacking these days.
(thanks CCP for the long skill que)
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
806
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 17:58:36 -
[14] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Ka'Narlist wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?
Jita means a major trade hub where everyone and their mother brings their stuff to sell it. How do you think this will happen in a system where everyone is ganking everyone? A couple of reasons: 1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out. 2: It's connected to... literally... everywhere. Depending on how this is handled it could be the most convenient market hub in all of New Eden. While it does have those things going for it, I don't see it developing into much more than some glorified NPC null space. Sure, some people will live there, but overall, I can't see even a moderate number of people wanting to actually base out of it. |
Kharamete
Royal Assent
104
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 17:59:21 -
[15] - Quote
I'll get a jump-clone in there and stay a while, but I don't think it will become the 'new jita' of lawless space. For that to work, you need to be able to ship things in bulk. From what I understand capitals won't be allowed in, and therefore there won't be any jumpfreighters bringing in goods. Or Freighters.
You'd perhaps be limited to Orcas, and let's be honest GÇô considering how risk averse people are, nobody is going to jump into Thera with an Orca without a big escort. And most people don't bother about escorts. So, no Lawless Jita in wormhole space.
That said, it could become an interesting system in its own
CCP FoxFour: "... the what button... oh god I didn't even know that existed. BRB."
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Bed Bugg
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:02:05 -
[16] - Quote
Interesting idea, but it would be like connecting Amamake to everywhere... and putting new lights and gizmos all over... as a trade hub... meh, seriously doubt that. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5967
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:03:11 -
[17] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Ka'Narlist wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?
Jita means a major trade hub where everyone and their mother brings their stuff to sell it. How do you think this will happen in a system where everyone is ganking everyone? A couple of reasons: 1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out. 2: It's connected to... literally... everywhere. Depending on how this is handled it could be the most convenient market hub in all of New Eden. While it does have those things going for it, I don't see it developing into much more than some glorified NPC null space. Sure, some people will live there, but overall, I can't see even a moderate number of people wanting to actually base out of it. Fair enough, but I'm surprised the major alliances are taking a keen interest in having a base of operations that has very easy static connections to empire, as well as a steady stream of wormholes to everywhere... especially considering the new limitations in play that limit fleet movement via Titan bridge.
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Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
55
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:14:05 -
[18] - Quote
The alliance with the ability to move the most amount of players and bubble the hell out of it during tidi will control it.
TLDR: The 2 alliances running null sec atm. |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
806
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:16:16 -
[19] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: Fair enough, but I'm surprised the major alliances are taking a keen interest in having a base of operations that has very easy static connections to empire, as well as a steady stream of wormholes to everywhere... especially considering the new limitations in play that limit fleet movement via Titan bridge.
It would be entirely too easy for an alliance to get their assets camped into such a place. There's a reason that NPC null is either used only for deployments, or as a last resort when all sov is lost. Granted, the recent removal of hobojamming makes this only slightly more difficult, it's still far from impossible. Anyone with enemies could very quickly find themselves hellcamped into that station. It makes far more sense to just use your own sov space, and take full advantage of wormholes within your regions of control. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5967
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:27:37 -
[20] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: Fair enough, but I'm surprised the major alliances are taking a keen interest in having a base of operations that has very easy static connections to empire, as well as a steady stream of wormholes to everywhere... especially considering the new limitations in play that limit fleet movement via Titan bridge.
It would be entirely too easy for an alliance to get their assets camped into such a place. There's a reason that NPC null is either used only for deployments, or as a last resort when all sov is lost. Granted, the recent removal of hobojamming makes this only slightly more difficult, it's still far from impossible. Anyone with enemies could very quickly find themselves hellcamped into that station. It makes far more sense to just use your own sov space, and take full advantage of wormholes within your regions of control. Fair points, although a few other factors may come into play.
We don't know how many stations will be in Thera. Considering the sheer size of the system there could be a LOT.
We don't know what the system mechanics will be like, frankly at this point we don't even know if bubbles will work there. All we know is that CCP doesn't seem to think that moving ships and materials in and out of system will be difficult (or at least not impossible), and that station camping doesn't appear to worry them overly much either... which might indicate that these "unique" and unannounced system mechanics (or environmental peculiarities if you prefer) will make such activities much more difficult.
If trade and manufacturing can flourish there, one would think that a military presence could as well.
We really won't know a lot until we get facts on:
Where the static wormholes end up. How many statics there are. How many wandering wormholes show up, and how often. How big the system is How many NPC stations are there, and how far apart. What are the new and unique environmental factors in play.
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Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
318
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:31:05 -
[21] - Quote
Kharamete wrote:You'd perhaps be limited to Orcas, and let's be honest GÇô considering how risk averse people are, nobody is going to jump into Thera with an Orca without a big escort. And most people don't bother about escorts. So, no Lawless Jita in wormhole space.
People aren't as risk averse as is often said. Most of the time, people don't take risks simply because the reward isn't worth it. If this system is as convenient to get to from everywhere as is suspected, then suddenly bothering with an escort to get an Orca full of goods docked makes sense.
Essentially, the location means demand for goods will be sky high. Supply will be the bottleneck, which means very high margins. Those margins in turn will be determined by the risk involved in creating supply.
Increase Risk -> Increase Margins -> Increase Reward
If this is implemented wisely, CCP may have discovered a self-sustaining mechanism for balancing Risk/Reward. |
Marsha Mallow
1689
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:31:36 -
[22] - Quote
The most sensible items to trade initially might work out to be small volume, high value items. If you consider the types of players who have access to faction/officer drops and WH goodies, Thera doesn't really present all that much of an obstacle for people used to navigating tricky space. With enough ISK, you could force that type of market into being.
People have been mentioning the old freighter convoys with nostalgia for a while, but it simply wasn't viable with pre-Phoebe capital ranges/proliferation. But I suspect long term, people will try the convoy routes again. Also, consider boosters - which are a pain to buy AND sell (and were slated for a massive overhaul a while back, which was put on the back burner for a bit). It's possible booster production will centre around Thera. All it takes is a handful of traders to start a venture there with moderate investment, and it'll have ripple effects on the tertiary hubs. Officer mods in particular aren't in massive supply (although would require a fair chunk to corner).
It's an interesting experiment, really looking forward to it. In a way it tests the concept of spacetravel without gates as well as local removal. And it pokes at the players to see just how much risk they are prepared to take - I'll be really curious to see how many new players try get to Thera, and how long it takes them to try. If there are NPC stations I suspect there will be a mad rush to sneak people in, to open offices and deathclone alts across. It might be worth allowing unlimited office opening initially just to get people in there poking about.
Also, and I hate to say it, but it's only a matter of time before someone creates a WH/sig mapping app for the entire game that is publically available. ATM they are used by closed groups for internal affairs, but I can see some enterprising soul creating a subscription based version which is rapidly made free.
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
55
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:40:47 -
[23] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:The most sensible items to trade initially might work out to be small volume, high value items. If you consider the types of players who have access to faction/officer drops and WH goodies, Thera doesn't really present all that much of an obstacle for people used to navigating tricky space. With enough ISK, you could force that type of market into being.
People have been mentioning the old freighter convoys with nostalgia for a while, but it simply wasn't viable with pre-Phoebe capital ranges/proliferation. But I suspect long term, people will try the convoy routes again. Also, consider boosters - which are a pain to buy AND sell (and were slated for a massive overhaul a while back, which was put on the back burner for a bit). It's possible booster production will centre around Thera. All it takes is a handful of traders to start a venture there with moderate investment, and it'll have ripple effects on the tertiary hubs. Officer mods in particular aren't in massive supply (although would require a fair chunk to corner).
It's an interesting experiment, really looking forward to it. In a way it tests the concept of spacetravel without gates as well as local removal. And it pokes at the players to see just how much risk they are prepared to take - I'll be really curious to see how many new players try get to Thera, and how long it takes them to try. If there are NPC stations I suspect there will be a mad rush to sneak people in, to open offices and deathclone alts across. It might be worth allowing unlimited office opening initially just to get people in there poking about.
Also, and I hate to say it, but it's only a matter of time before someone creates a WH/sig mapping app for the entire game that is publically available. ATM they are used by closed groups for internal affairs, but I can see some enterprising soul creating a subscription based version which is rapidly made free.
Like the one in this stickied post i the WH section.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=320030&find=unread |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
806
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:44:45 -
[24] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: Fair points, although a few other factors may come into play.
We don't know how many stations will be in Thera. Considering the sheer size of the system there could be a LOT.
We don't know what the system mechanics will be like, frankly at this point we don't even know if bubbles will work there. All we know is that CCP doesn't seem to think that moving ships and materials in and out of system will be difficult (or at least not impossible), and that station camping doesn't appear to worry them overly much either... which might indicate that these "unique" and unannounced system mechanics (or environmental peculiarities if you prefer) will make such activities much more difficult.
If trade and manufacturing can flourish there, one would think that a military presence could as well.
We really won't know a lot until we get facts on:
Where the static wormholes end up. How many statics there are. How many wandering wormholes show up, and how often. How big the system is How many NPC stations are there, and how far apart. What are the new and unique environmental factors in play.
Absolutely. I think that all of these question marks are a big reason that you won't see many (if any) organized groups making plans for it just yet. I would assume that more details will be divulged as we get closer to the release. If that ends up not being the case though, the only "mad rush" into that system that I expect to see, is a bunch of CovOps and cloaky/nullified T3s poking around in there for the first week or two. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5967
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:45:07 -
[25] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote:The most sensible items to trade initially might work out to be small volume, high value items. If you consider the types of players who have access to faction/officer drops and WH goodies, Thera doesn't really present all that much of an obstacle for people used to navigating tricky space. With enough ISK, you could force that type of market into being.
People have been mentioning the old freighter convoys with nostalgia for a while, but it simply wasn't viable with pre-Phoebe capital ranges/proliferation. But I suspect long term, people will try the convoy routes again. Also, consider boosters - which are a pain to buy AND sell (and were slated for a massive overhaul a while back, which was put on the back burner for a bit). It's possible booster production will centre around Thera. All it takes is a handful of traders to start a venture there with moderate investment, and it'll have ripple effects on the tertiary hubs. Officer mods in particular aren't in massive supply (although would require a fair chunk to corner).
It's an interesting experiment, really looking forward to it. In a way it tests the concept of spacetravel without gates as well as local removal. And it pokes at the players to see just how much risk they are prepared to take - I'll be really curious to see how many new players try get to Thera, and how long it takes them to try. If there are NPC stations I suspect there will be a mad rush to sneak people in, to open offices and deathclone alts across. It might be worth allowing unlimited office opening initially just to get people in there poking about.
Also, and I hate to say it, but it's only a matter of time before someone creates a WH/sig mapping app for the entire game that is publically available. ATM they are used by closed groups for internal affairs, but I can see some enterprising soul creating a subscription based version which is rapidly made free. Like the one in this stickied post i the WH section. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=320030&find=unread
A lot of what happens in the wormhole section of the forums goes unnoticed by the general population. It is quite possible that will change soon.
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Marsha Mallow
1691
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:45:22 -
[26] - Quote
Or like Siggy, or any other player made app. All of which are being developed internally (and probably better by well-resourced blocs) but my point is... actually, I'm not going to bother explaining it. Work it out.
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5969
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:47:49 -
[27] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: Fair points, although a few other factors may come into play.
We don't know how many stations will be in Thera. Considering the sheer size of the system there could be a LOT.
We don't know what the system mechanics will be like, frankly at this point we don't even know if bubbles will work there. All we know is that CCP doesn't seem to think that moving ships and materials in and out of system will be difficult (or at least not impossible), and that station camping doesn't appear to worry them overly much either... which might indicate that these "unique" and unannounced system mechanics (or environmental peculiarities if you prefer) will make such activities much more difficult.
If trade and manufacturing can flourish there, one would think that a military presence could as well.
We really won't know a lot until we get facts on:
Where the static wormholes end up. How many statics there are. How many wandering wormholes show up, and how often. How big the system is How many NPC stations are there, and how far apart. What are the new and unique environmental factors in play.
Absolutely. I think that all of these question marks are a big reason that you won't see many (if any) organized groups making plans for it just yet. I would assume that more details will be divulged as we get closer to the release. If that ends up not being the case though, the only "mad rush" into that system that I expect to see, is a bunch of CovOps and cloaky/nullified T3s poking around in there for the first week or two. Probably all buying up offices and making bookmarks.
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Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
806
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:50:19 -
[28] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Probably all buying up offices and making bookmarks. Precisely. If the size of the system is anything like what I am imagining, a scanner nerd who knows how to short warp could easily spend a few days amusing him/herself just making tacticals, safes, and a few navigation routes through it. |
Marsha Mallow
1692
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:56:44 -
[29] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Probably all buying up offices and making bookmarks. To be fair, I think it's a good thing. People can baw all they like about blobbing, but organised groups will pre-map all of the logistical headache out then present it all nicely wrapped up for the rest of us in the form of guides/gossip/kms. It's fun to be a part of it, but it's also nice to wait for someone else to smooth out the edges.
Also, CCP could really force the issue. Hehe. Make all the stations CONCORD/Interbus or something, so people have to redeem their LP there. PLEASE DO IT! MY CAT IS CALLED PHOEBE TOO!
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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Nuela
Beacon Light Corporation Beacon Light Alliance
246
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 19:15:25 -
[30] - Quote
Esan Vartesa wrote:Kharamete wrote:You'd perhaps be limited to Orcas, and let's be honest GÇô considering how risk averse people are, nobody is going to jump into Thera with an Orca without a big escort. And most people don't bother about escorts. So, no Lawless Jita in wormhole space.
People aren't as risk averse as is often said. Most of the time, people don't take risks simply because the reward isn't worth it.
QFT.
I have often been called, diplomatically, risk averse. Undiplomatically much worse :)
The problem is that if you choose to play this game for its economy, then you have to play FOR ITS ECONOMY. This means that you need to make smart economic decisions.
Part of that decision is that increase risk means increased reward and since part of that increased risk is to be the plaything of actual people it had damn well better be SIGNIFICANTLY increased reward! I am not going to let some guy blow me up and giggle with glee at my expense so that I can make a measly 20% more per unit of time.
The reason I tend to be risk averse is that not only is there NOT increased reward for increased risk, many times there is a decrease in reward due to losses, losing time to running away/being camped etc etc etc. To say I should do that for 'content' reasons is silly...I am roleplaying a tough-economic minded toon and that toon would NOT do such a thing. To ask her to is basically asking this toon to not be played.
I will definitely be there and taking huge risks *IF* the rewards are worth it. If not, forget it. Based on prior history with the devs in this game...the rewards probably won't even match hisec missioning after factoring in losses in time and material, let alone to make it worth my while to provide content to gankers. However, if the rewards are there...I will be providing plenty of targets for people to catch/blow up.
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Jur Tissant
The TERRA Guardians of Serenity
291
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 19:16:59 -
[31] - Quote
I am skeptical.
They compare it to a virtual Mos Eisley. But in Mos Eisley, you still watched your step for fear of getting shot if you pissed someone off. In EVE, this fear does not exist, or is severely mitigated.
It's like DayZ. In the real apocalypse, you can't trust anyone. In the virtual apocalypse, you can trust everyone - to shoot you for giggles. |
Jvpiter
Jovelike
8
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 19:20:07 -
[32] - Quote
Nuela wrote:I will definitely be there and taking huge risks *IF* the rewards are worth it. If not, forget it. Based on prior history with the devs in this game...the rewards probably won't even match hisec missioning after factoring in losses in time and material, let alone to make it worth my while to provide content to gankers. However, if the rewards are there...I will be providing plenty of targets for people to catch/blow up.
I get what you're saying, but how will you know if the rewards are worth it? Thera not being worth it in this case simply becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Being completely risk averse does not lead to the best business decisions. Informed risk isn't what you are describing here. |
Nuela
Beacon Light Corporation Beacon Light Alliance
246
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 19:27:07 -
[33] - Quote
Jvpiter wrote:Nuela wrote:I will definitely be there and taking huge risks *IF* the rewards are worth it. If not, forget it. Based on prior history with the devs in this game...the rewards probably won't even match hisec missioning after factoring in losses in time and material, let alone to make it worth my while to provide content to gankers. However, if the rewards are there...I will be providing plenty of targets for people to catch/blow up.
I get what you're saying, but how will you know if the rewards are worth it? Thera not being worth it in this case simply becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Being completely risk averse does not lead to the best business decisions. Informed risk isn't what you are describing here.
Exactly. I will take risks...it's just that, In Eve, there is very little reward worth the extra risk.
True about the self-fulfilling prophesy but that is the Devs problem, not mine. I will try it out and give it a fair shake but if it doesn't pan out or look like it has potential to...I will stop.
Thinking about this some more, I'm not sure how this could work ---
Why would somebody build items or accumulate material and sell it here? Answer: Because it is worth the risk. This means however, that stuff sells for more here.
Why would somebody buy here instead of Jita despite it being risky to get it out. Answer: because stuff is cheaper here otherwise would buy in Jita.
Not sure how this paradox could work except that maybe one can't just easily ship in from Jita and use in the new space and this area is a market of its own. However, I don't see this from the description we have. |
DaReaper
Net 7
1220
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 19:33:29 -
[34] - Quote
I see it as a lawless way stations for wormholers.
Depending on the non static connections and how many it could be a decent stop over for wh groups to sell and buy various gases and equipment they need without having to hope that the exits lead to stuff that's needed.
It could also become a hell hole that is perma camped by one group or another, or a good war zone.
Honestly, it would be nice to be a kinda free port, where no one stakes a claim and the market gets good put into it, and the people who pass through police it themselves... but I am sure a wh group will be claming it and going nbsi really quickly after launch.
I will visit it, and as has been said, most likely pop. lol
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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embrel
BamBam Inc. Outlanders United
203
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 19:48:04 -
[35] - Quote
Nuela wrote:Jvpiter wrote:Nuela wrote:I will definitely be there and taking huge risks *IF* the rewards are worth it. If not, forget it. Based on prior history with the devs in this game...the rewards probably won't even match hisec missioning after factoring in losses in time and material, let alone to make it worth my while to provide content to gankers. However, if the rewards are there...I will be providing plenty of targets for people to catch/blow up.
I get what you're saying, but how will you know if the rewards are worth it? Thera not being worth it in this case simply becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Being completely risk averse does not lead to the best business decisions. Informed risk isn't what you are describing here. Exactly. I will take risks...it's just that, In Eve, there is very little reward worth the extra risk. True about the self-fulfilling prophesy but that is the Devs problem, not mine. I will try it out and give it a fair shake but if it doesn't pan out or look like it has potential to...I will stop. Thinking about this some more, I'm not sure how this could work --- Why would somebody build items or accumulate material and sell it here? Answer: Because it is worth the risk. This means however, that stuff sells for more here. Why would somebody buy here instead of Jita. Answer: because stuff is cheaper here otherwise would buy in Jita. Not sure how this paradox could work except that maybe one can't just easily ship in from Jita and use in the new space and this area is a market of it's own. However, I don't see this from the description we have.
It might work out due to opportunity costs of hauling especially to backwater systems (from Jita), but I'd assume for the bulk, these opportunity cost will not be sufficient. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3247
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 20:04:58 -
[36] - Quote
It's not hisec. 'nuff said.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5655
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 20:07:50 -
[37] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: Fair enough, but I'm surprised the major alliances are taking a keen interest in having a base of operations that has very easy static connections to empire, as well as a steady stream of wormholes to everywhere... especially considering the new limitations in play that limit fleet movement via Titan bridge.
It would be entirely too easy for an alliance to get their assets camped into such a place. There's a reason that NPC null is either used only for deployments, or as a last resort when all sov is lost. Granted, the recent removal of hobojamming makes this only slightly more difficult, it's still far from impossible. Anyone with enemies could very quickly find themselves hellcamped into that station. It makes far more sense to just use your own sov space, and take full advantage of wormholes within your regions of control. Fair points, although a few other factors may come into play. We don't know how many stations will be in Thera. Considering the sheer size of the system there could be a LOT. We don't know what the system mechanics will be like, frankly at this point we don't even know if bubbles will work there. All we know is that CCP doesn't seem to think that moving ships and materials in and out of system will be difficult (or at least not impossible), and that station camping doesn't appear to worry them overly much either... which might indicate that these "unique" and unannounced system mechanics (or environmental peculiarities if you prefer) will make such activities much more difficult. If trade and manufacturing can flourish there, one would think that a military presence could as well. We really won't know a lot until we get facts on: Where the static wormholes end up. How many statics there are. How many wandering wormholes show up, and how often. How big the system is How many NPC stations are there, and how far apart. What are the new and unique environmental factors in play.
I would like to add to your list:
How much mass the wormholes would handle (would they be in accord with where they link or would these be "special cases"?)
I still think this is more of an experiment and I gotta say I like it when CCP experiments. That's a sign they might have clubbed their marketing department like baby seals and carted them off (a good thing).
How players use these new systems and the overall result might even drive future changes to the game so there lies another reason to have interest in this.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Skydell
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
650
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 20:16:02 -
[38] - Quote
Nobody 'lives' in Jita except maybe Alts.
Thera will be Arena PvP until the node crashes with 600 interceptors on a bubble infested wormhole.
I'm not saying don't do it. I, like others just see the direction it will take because certain player groups in EVE are all about the I-win button. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5970
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 20:16:19 -
[39] - Quote
Nuela wrote:Jvpiter wrote:Nuela wrote:I will definitely be there and taking huge risks *IF* the rewards are worth it. If not, forget it. Based on prior history with the devs in this game...the rewards probably won't even match hisec missioning after factoring in losses in time and material, let alone to make it worth my while to provide content to gankers. However, if the rewards are there...I will be providing plenty of targets for people to catch/blow up.
I get what you're saying, but how will you know if the rewards are worth it? Thera not being worth it in this case simply becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Being completely risk averse does not lead to the best business decisions. Informed risk isn't what you are describing here. Exactly. I will take risks...it's just that, In Eve, there is very little reward worth the extra risk. True about the self-fulfilling prophesy but that is the Devs problem, not mine. I will try it out and give it a fair shake but if it doesn't pan out or look like it has potential to...I will stop. Thinking about this some more, I'm not sure how this could work --- Why would somebody build items or accumulate material and sell it here? Answer: Because it is worth the risk. This means however, that stuff sells for more here. Why would somebody buy here instead of Jita despite it being risky to get it out. Answer: because stuff is cheaper here otherwise would buy in Jita. Not sure how this paradox could work except that maybe one can't just easily ship in from Jita and use in the new space and this area is a market of its own. However, I don't see this from the description we have. My money is on this: If there is one area that is certain to not have ready access to Thera, it will be Jita.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5971
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 20:23:55 -
[40] - Quote
Skydell wrote:Nobody 'lives' in Jita except maybe Alts.
Thera will be Arena PvP until the node crashes with 600 interceptors on a bubble infested wormhole.
I'm not saying don't do it. I, like others just see the direction it will take because certain player groups in EVE are all about the I-win button. Well, Thera has one incentive for people to live there that Jita will never have... an unending supply of unsuspecting targets right on the other side of the wormholes that open and close constantly.
If nothing else it is the ideal base of operations for a group that enjoys pirating and raiding.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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somedudeinaship
Star Whorz
42
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 20:28:07 -
[41] - Quote
Park lots of smartbombing Augoror's on the station and sit and wait? |
HeXxploiT
Little Red X
51
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 20:39:24 -
[42] - Quote
The only way I can envision this system working is if there are a bare MINIMUM of 20 entrances into this wormhole and preferably fifty. Very few small groups would actually run sites in this system. This would be limited to larger corps/alliances that can actually provide security. The only way around this is if the site is going to be 1000AU across so it takes forever to actually find people with normal probes. Individuals and small groups who decide to reside here will be dependent on running sites in neighboring systems. This is a problem because if there are a limited amount of exits they'll have to be fitted to get through camps but if they're fitted to get through camps then they won't be fitted to run sites. Having dozens of entrances could fix this issue however as all entrances are not likely to be camped.
Really we need to know more before we can gauge just how popular this system will be for small groups & solo folk. |
Jon Joringer
Zero-K
146
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 21:00:50 -
[43] - Quote
This is definitely interesting. We'll have to see how it plays out, but it could be an amazing place to call home. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
2352
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 21:10:19 -
[44] - Quote
Another "thunderdome", further perpetuating the systemic failure of CCP to create meaningful PvP blended seamlessly with basic income generation.
I mean, neat idea from a pure brawling perspective, but just more of the same in the grand scheme of things.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
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Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
391
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 21:24:26 -
[45] - Quote
I see Thera working under very specific circumstances - if WH corps are able to use it as a resupply depot.
This would mean a fair amount of C1-C6 connections from Thera, so that everyone in WH space can be fairly confident that they'll hook up with Thera once month. If that happens, Thera becomes the go-to place to sell T3 components/sleeper loot and the like, and to buy things like ammo, fuel, and other necessaries to bring back into the WH.
This also assumes that you'll be able to use the stations in Thera. Meaning CCP would likely have to add heavy station guns that shoot at anyone committing an aggressive act, solar effects that prevent the use of bubbles . . . kinda like W-space "lite." Otherwise, I don't see it being convenient enough to get established, and instead it'll just devolve into a system that random corps periodically move to for cheap kills because they can't handle W-space without 1) a static K-space connection, 2) station services, and 3) no need to fuel a POS.
I hope for the former, I expect the later.
I am not an alt of Chribba.
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
2352
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 21:25:41 -
[46] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:I see Thera working....
Love it when someone else summarizes my thoughts more or less exactly, and saves me the trouble.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
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Renegade Heart
Smack My Ship Up
270
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 21:58:28 -
[47] - Quote
I reckon CCP will pull it off and Thera will be a resounding success. They must have some juicy content planned if they are calling it "Jita without Concord". I expect something in that system will entice large numbers of players to go there. |
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
1044
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 22:36:00 -
[48] - Quote
I do hope that once it gets released on Sisi for testing that people will abuse the hell out of it, showcasing all the weak spots & such they can improve on to make it a dangerous system, without turning it into a slaughterfest system.
I see two things at least to make it work: -No bubbles (else people will cage in the stations if the system ever takes off, and thereby nullify it) -Powerful station guns, to prevent station games: while undock shouldn't be 100% danger free, it should at least not be a fire at will zone.
If people/CCP want to see it turn into a new Jita, traders have to be able to move in not only modules & resources, but also ships in large quantities & acceptable security (meaning it can be dangerous, but never too dangerous to offset profits, else there's no use setting up a tradepost there)
All in all, looking forward what it'll be.
Newly discovered sleeper sites contain advanced weapon blueprints!
The return of Dr Hilen Tukoss, Arek'Jaalan project leader
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Wendrika Hydreiga
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
86
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 22:53:24 -
[49] - Quote
More to the point, what sort of corp will own Thera? And can we do missions for them?
Here's hoping SOE owns Thera. It would only be fitting. |
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
214
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 23:07:36 -
[50] - Quote
Thera sounds like a very big step. There are a number of big steps afoot in CCP. The question for me is in which direction are we walking.
Please let this be part of a much bigger picture. |
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Tarpedo
Incursionista
1400
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 23:33:55 -
[51] - Quote
Without ganking (CONCORD) and scamming (local chat) it's not even close to Jita. So far nothing interesting enough to move. |
Hal Morsh
Exodus Mining Corp
184
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 23:34:24 -
[52] - Quote
I see afk cloakers becoming more dangerous in this system, and at the same time becoming a non existent issue to everyone (figure that one out).
I'm also curious to see if pirates decide to camp wormholes and try a toll system for neutrals. Wouldn't that be cool? Then again what am I thinking, they'll probably kill everything that can't kill them, or run away.
If the system is vast and entrances numerous. This could go very well, otherwise it'll be a glorified low-sec.
I enjoy a good session of mining.
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Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
214
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 23:58:03 -
[53] - Quote
Hal Morsh wrote:I see afk cloakers becoming more dangerous in this system, and at the same time becoming a non existent issue to everyone
I do not understand your point here.
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Hal Morsh
Exodus Mining Corp
184
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 00:03:11 -
[54] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Hal Morsh wrote:I see afk cloakers becoming more dangerous in this system, and at the same time becoming a non existent issue to everyone I do not understand your point here.
Local, gone poof.
I enjoy a good session of mining.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5971
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 00:11:17 -
[55] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:Without ganking (CONCORD), scamming (local chat), cheap trade hub - it's not even close to Jita. And everything is behind EVE scanning mini-game - which I despise.
So far nothing interesting enough to move. Ganking doesn't require Concords presence, even suicide ganking doesn't necessarily require Concord to provide you with instant death for killing a target... and I see no reason why there won't be scamming in local.
Local exists, you simply don't show up in local unless you choose to speak in local.
I do agree that the need to frequently use scan probes will be difficult for those of us that suck at it.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
215
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 00:13:19 -
[56] - Quote
Hal Morsh wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:Hal Morsh wrote:I see afk cloakers becoming more dangerous in this system, and at the same time becoming a non existent issue to everyone I do not understand your point here. Local, gone poof.
Yes that has been clarified a few times. How does that make afk cloakers more dangerous?
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Hal Morsh
Exodus Mining Corp
184
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 00:22:30 -
[57] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Hal Morsh wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:Hal Morsh wrote:I see afk cloakers becoming more dangerous in this system, and at the same time becoming a non existent issue to everyone I do not understand your point here. Local, gone poof. Yes that has been clarified a few times. How does that make afk cloakers more dangerous?
Actually it makes intel not instant. But you can't even D-scan them. actually I guess they aren't more dangerous, just not visible in local meaning no one complains. Excuse my derp.
I enjoy a good session of mining.
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
3261
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 02:00:18 -
[58] - Quote
I'm picturing something maybe 50 million AU across with what? 150 stations? At least? I mean that is at the bare minimum what it would take. I could see living out of it. I'm going to give it a crack, for sure. Really to me it sounds like all of Fountain in one system plus you're in a wormhole. Seems like a lot of fun... and solves pretty much every problem with trying to be a pirate operating out of a wormhole. There will be pirates. Oh yes. ...but also wormhole ratters, some industrialists (full station services), campers of various kinds, hard-core PvPers, really crazy miners (bring support!), perhaps even mission runners. Depending on the design which we know very little about, you might even see every alliance finding a strategic advantage in keeping this or that fleet in the system. Nowhere else in EvE could you have so many players with so many totally different objectives (if any) in one system.
Really, I think most EvE players will have more reason to be in Thera than Jita.
This begs the question, how many pods we talking?
I'm not worried about PvPers, I'm worried about lag. How are they going to do this if there's 5k or 10k pods bopping around?
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5971
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 02:58:09 -
[59] - Quote
I've seen some things here and there that would suggest they have been taking precautions for the expected lag issues, but nothing concrete. Dedicated node perhaps?
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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Ayni Naskingar
Axolotl Armageddon
2
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 03:05:05 -
[60] - Quote
Gogela wrote:I'm picturing something maybe 50 million AU across
u wot m8 ? Do you even realize how big 50 million AU is? At 3AU/s warpspeed it would take like 96 days 10 hours 48 minutes 53.33 seconds to warp half the system |
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Satoris Terona
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 06:08:11 -
[61] - Quote
If HERO get pushed out of Catch Thera wouldn't be a bad place for them. They are big enough to hold even a very large system with multiple entry points so long as no supers ever come into play (which they won't, not there).
It wouldn't be a bad thing for the game either as most of HERO still measure their gametime in fun/hr rather than isk/hr so they are willing to fight pretty much anyone and everyone just to have gudfights.
It's an interesting possibility though I am not sure how likely it really is. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
3261
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 06:52:15 -
[62] - Quote
Ayni Naskingar wrote:Gogela wrote:I'm picturing something maybe 50 million AU across
u wot m8 ? Do you even realize how big 50 million AU is? At 3AU/s warpspeed it would take like 96 days 10 hours 48 minutes 53.33 seconds to warp half the system
They said the system had unique properties. I bet one of them is warp speed. But your right... 50 million. That's a number a guy who smoked pot would come up with. What was he thinking? (Colorado rules!)
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Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
64
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 07:12:30 -
[63] - Quote
Fozzie said on the o7 show that it was by far the largest system and that 9-2 system is like 204AU so I would guess it is up there around 500AU. There is a really good chance that bubbles/interdictors won't work because of some new something from the star. It also wouldn't surprise me if they added some type of effect that dampens sensors to near uselessness. They want people in the system so creating a WH that is basically a death trap doesn't make much sense. It may be the "Mos Eisley" of New Eden but it can't be so dangerous that no one enters. There will be some type of mechanic used to prevent or at least curtail combat. I am interested to see how they are going to accomplish it, I won't live there but I would enjoy jumping in every once in a while just for the fun of it.
I also think that he said there will be no WHs to other WHs only to K space. That will help out some because pilots will only be able to engage you on one side of the hole, if it is a HS. Scanning is going to be a *****, trying to scan down the entire system is going to take a while without deep space probes.
Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why.
Hunter S. Thompson
|
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
218
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 07:21:24 -
[64] - Quote
Imagine if it was 600 au across and the celestials actually rotated around the sun. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5656
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 07:47:39 -
[65] - Quote
Burl en Daire wrote:Fozzie said on the o7 show that it was by far the largest system and that 9-2 system is like 204AU so I would guess it is up there around 500AU. There is a really good chance that bubbles/interdictors won't work because of some new something from the star. It also wouldn't surprise me if they added some type of effect that dampens sensors to near uselessness. They want people in the system so creating a WH that is basically a death trap doesn't make much sense. It may be the "Mos Eisley" of New Eden but it can't be so dangerous that no one enters. There will be some type of mechanic used to prevent or at least curtail combat. I am interested to see how they are going to accomplish it, I won't live there but I would enjoy jumping in every once in a while just for the fun of it.
I also think that he said there will be no WHs to other WHs only to K space. That will help out some because pilots will only be able to engage you on one side of the hole, if it is a HS. Scanning is going to be a *****, trying to scan down the entire system is going to take a while without deep space probes.
500 AU...
are they bringing back the deep space probes?
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
65
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 07:51:11 -
[66] - Quote
I don't know if they are but with any system that starts pushing 100 AU it is going to take a while to scan. The system I live in is just under 70 and combat probes at max range and max spread just covers it. Who knows if they'll bring them back but now is the time.
Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why.
Hunter S. Thompson
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Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
218
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 08:08:09 -
[67] - Quote
Burl en Daire wrote:I don't know if they are but with any system that starts pushing 100 AU it is going to take a while to scan. The system I live in is just under 70 and combat probes at max range and max spread just covers it. Who knows if they'll bring them back but now is the time.
A competent prober can hit specific targets in under 2 minutes upon entering a 70 au system with normal combat probes. making it 600 and not bring back deeps brings an element of luck to tracking down pvers. |
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
219
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 08:40:37 -
[68] - Quote
Imagine if bookmarks deteriorated over time in Thera and could spit you out 50, 100 or even 500km from your desired location. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty. Circle-Of-Two
4955
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 08:46:11 -
[69] - Quote
I have to express my worry that I think Thera runs a serious risk of not becoming what CCP want it to be, because there'll be too much shooting and not enough trading. I'm not saying that the shooting is neccessarily a bad thing, per se, but for Thera to not just be "a place one goes to get shot" (Rancer, anybody?) there actually needs to be a fair amount of not-shooting going on to make it worthwhile. If I'm just going to get shot any time I try to enter the system, what's the point of going there to trade when I could just go to Jita and run a vastly less serious risk of getting shot?
I may be subscribing to wishful thinking here, but the ideal solution would be a coalition essentially acting as a player-based CONCORD - providing enough safety and security to make the system usable by anyone but based solely on player interaction, not NPCs.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Luwc
Confederation of Independent Contractors Swamphole
290
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 08:58:22 -
[70] - Quote
I rather stay in a proper wh :D
http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif
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Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
487
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 11:44:29 -
[71] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:Without ganking (CONCORD), scamming (local chat), cheap trade hub - it's not even close to Jita. And everything is behind EVE scanning mini-game - which I despise.
So far nothing interesting enough to move.
There is local, just not for intel purposes. So if you want to chat - it'll work.
Being as people will be coming from normal space and local channel is used, it won't be just shut down so you can expect the usual jita style local banter. |
gantin Adoudel
Daimonic
5
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 13:19:00 -
[72] - Quote
but wasn't it said that there would be zero capitals? would be great profit to be had but the amount of trips back and forth would probably cause you trouble. |
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 13:35:02 -
[73] - Quote
Jvpiter wrote:
Thera could truly become the Mos Eisley of our little universe.
I may not even miss the muppets in Jita Local.
I'd parallell the whole idea more to Nimbus III myself ... including it's future. But, time will see.
|
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 13:40:30 -
[74] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:I may be subscribing to wishful thinking here, but the ideal solution would be a coalition essentially acting as a player-based CONCORD - providing enough safety and security to make the system usable by anyone but based solely on player interaction, not NPCs.
This ... 'effective' stable player based policing / protection within a particular system(s) to enable a high degree of safe travel for non-combatants (in terms of risk management, greater that 80% safety, or less than 20% chance of dying - heck, even with those odds playing out, from a business point of view it's not workable as your profit margin will be eaten up very quickly), is the 'one' thing that I've never truly seen. Most likely due to the exact nature of EVE, and it's inherant instability.
The idea is awesome though, if it could work. |
Jvpiter
Jovelike
25
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 13:46:40 -
[75] - Quote
Luwc wrote:I rather stay in a proper wh :D
Do you mean a WH with tea and biscuits?
Sign me up. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
743
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 13:49:11 -
[76] - Quote
If it really has as many entrances as it sounds like, this will not be seriously camped. Imagine 6 exits and the typical gatecamper (with bubble, falcon and logistics), that's 3 guys min on each hole for 18 total that need to permanently be out there. If one camp is ambushed by a bigger force and you have to project, this gonna take you up to several minutes. So the sheer manpower to hold this would be excessive.
If you got small goods with decent value like implants, drugs or blueprints, you can get those in risk-free using a nullified T3 (since wormholes will kick you out at around 6km if you go without prop and up to 10km off if you go with oversized prop). If a ceptor sits on the hole at zero, he'll have to burn up to 12-14km to decloak you... Doesn't sound like a lot of risk.
If you got cargo-intensive stuff to get in like hulls, minerals or ammo (just to name a few), then a freighter with some DD support as the hole you're intending to use is clear doesn't sound that troublesome either. Added that with instadock bookmarks there is little that could go wrong.
If your leaving through the k-space exits to roam or run an exploration (hacking/complexes w/e) tour, I'd imagine you'd rather sell your stuff on the local market in Thera (since there is one) after returning to log, instead of once again moving it to jita. I'm quite eager to see how industry job costs will develop in there.
"I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
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Heather Austrene
Fried Liver Attack
21
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 14:03:07 -
[77] - Quote
No doubt this new corner of the sandbox will be turned into something it's creators didn't envision. But kudos to CCP for adding creative new content to Eve. |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
818
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 14:04:04 -
[78] - Quote
Fortunately for everyone, it's looking like the groups who have enough manpower to even try to lock down a system like Thera, have no interest in doing so.
Yet, anyway. |
Jack dannels
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 14:28:14 -
[79] - Quote
lol goons will own it
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Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
372
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 14:37:53 -
[80] - Quote
To sum it up what has been said so far on the video by CCP Fozzie :
NPC-stations, definitely more then one station, all very far a part to discourage camping. Mix of all sec statuses but no concord, might or might not have bubbles. Sleepers as NPC's Statics to k-space with random w-connections. No capitals can be brought or built in the system. No POS allowed in the system. Stations will have full services with clones, refineries etc. so having a main clone in Thera might be good. No local because of w-space Lot's of lore related land marks and new w-space graphics.
Moving on sisi by 'move me' bot when available, also a devblog will be released in a week (?)
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Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
599
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 14:40:06 -
[81] - Quote
The possibilities are there, it's all up to how it's implemented really, I'll certainly be sending a character in for a look around to see what's up |
Charlie Firpol
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
275
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 15:40:32 -
[82] - Quote
There will be 1000 unsuccessful tries to get ships and modules in, people will be getting angry how CCP could even think this is a good idea. It will be a gankers paradise!
Then there will be very few people actually able to get ships and modules in, and they will sell them. For a ton of ISK. They might get filthy rich. And they will say it was the best idea ever. Its a good traders paradise! |
Marcus Tedric
Tedric Enterprises The Star League
11
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 16:10:53 -
[83] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:............................... If you got cargo-intensive stuff to get in like hulls, minerals or ammo (just to name a few), then a freighter with some DD support as the hole you're intending to use is clear doesn't sound that troublesome either. Added that with instadock bookmarks there is little that could go wrong........................
No freighters.....
DST probably the largest.
Battleships will have to be built in-system (or actually flown in).
Modules, Ammo, etc will be reasonably easy to get in - ship hulls won't (be so easy) until they are built there.
Pilots will find it relatively easy to get in (in frigates, certainly).
My current best guesses: 1000 AU; 25-50 stations; no bubbles; 10 k-space entries
An interesting idea would be to have station guns that shoot everyone after 30-60s. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5973
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 16:27:00 -
[84] - Quote
Baneken wrote:To sum it up what has been said so far on the video by CCP Fozzie :
NPC-stations, definitely more then one station, all very far a part to discourage camping. Mix of all sec statuses but no concord, might or might not have bubbles. Sleepers as NPC's Statics to k-space with random w-connections. No capitals can be brought or built in the system. No POS allowed in the system. Stations will have full services with clones, refineries etc. so having a main clone in Thera might be good. No local because of w-space Lot's of lore related land marks and new w-space graphics.
Moving on sisi by 'move me' bot when available, also a devblog will be released in a week (?)
Pretty good recap! For clarity and convenience here is a link to that specific portion of the interview with pauses for some speculative commentary based on community response throw in at the appropriate points: THERA
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
54
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Posted - 2014.11.12 16:31:42 -
[85] - Quote
No, only because they chose to go with a name that's been rehashed to death by old browser games since the 90's: "Thera". Thats just Earth jumbled up.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
54
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 16:42:38 -
[86] - Quote
Jur Tissant wrote:I am skeptical.
They compare it to a virtual Mos Eisley. But in Mos Eisley, you still watched your step for fear of getting shot if you pissed someone off. In EVE, this fear does not exist, or is severely mitigated.
It's like DayZ. In the real apocalypse, you can't trust anyone. In the virtual apocalypse, you can trust everyone - to shoot you for giggles.
Pretty much this. They're comparing apples and oranges with this Moss Icely thing.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
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Atrapa Bathana-Sura
Alpha Eridani
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 17:00:09 -
[87] - Quote
An idea: maybe Thera will indeed feature bubbles, but its stations will be really huge and with multiple exits? So there can still be gameplay with bubbles but getting in and out is feasible. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
746
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 17:17:00 -
[88] - Quote
He, does that mean there are to be no freighters in Thera?
This sounds like fun.
"I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
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Felicity Love
Imperium Galactic Navy
2162
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 17:21:45 -
[89] - Quote
Has the potential to be nothing more than one long string of ganks... sort of like the SOE stations when the new SOE faction ships were announced and most people just went to gank and probe down the mission runners, and then the novelty wears off and people go back to Jita because that's where the easiest resupply of 'everything' is.
TL;DR... congrats, CCP... you've just added an ARENA to EVE...
"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.-á-á ( Pick four, any four. They all smell. -á)
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Nick Bete
The Scope Gallente Federation
289
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 17:37:05 -
[90] - Quote
Placing a major trade hub in the middle of a lawless piece of space is like placing a stock exchange in downtown Mogadishu. What could possibly go wrong? |
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Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
745
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 17:52:06 -
[91] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:No, only because they chose to go with a name that's been rehashed to death by old browser games since the 90's: "Thera". Thats just Earth jumbled up.
Thera |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5975
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 18:55:52 -
[92] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:No, only because they chose to go with a name that's been rehashed to death by old browser games since the 90's: "Thera". Thats just Earth jumbled up. I'm not familiar with any other sci fi game that features a place called Thera (although I certainly could have overlooked some)... however I am familiar with ancient Thera here on earth which would appear to be very similar to what we will see in game.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5975
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 18:59:33 -
[93] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Jur Tissant wrote:I am skeptical.
They compare it to a virtual Mos Eisley. But in Mos Eisley, you still watched your step for fear of getting shot if you pissed someone off. In EVE, this fear does not exist, or is severely mitigated.
It's like DayZ. In the real apocalypse, you can't trust anyone. In the virtual apocalypse, you can trust everyone - to shoot you for giggles. Pretty much this. They're comparing apples and oranges with this Moss Icily thing. One for the simple fact that if things go wrong in one, you are perma-dead. I think you are missing the point of the Mos Eisley reference. It refers to Mos Eisley being a "wretched hive of scum and villainy" and has little, if anything, to do with what happens when you die. I'm not even sure why people would try to make that comparison.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
813
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 19:13:05 -
[94] - Quote
Thera systems are on the map and covert cyno's can be lit once in system?
Thera systems are not on the map and all traffic is herded through wormholes.
Those are the questions that determine how fast Thera content decays in to control by blob, exclusive to blues content. |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
373
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 19:24:56 -
[95] - Quote
Ocih wrote:Thera systems are on the map and covert cyno's can be lit once in system?
Thera systems are not on the map and all traffic is herded through wormholes.
Those are the questions that determine how fast Thera content decays in to control by blob, exclusive to blues content.
It's a w-space with some special rules thrown in, guess if cynoing capitals in is part of that equation when CCP Fozzie explicitly stated that you cannot bring or even build capitals in Thera ?
Not to mention that no cynos or even clonevats for that matter work in regular w-space and I would be very surprised if they would work in Thera either. |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
813
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 19:32:08 -
[96] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Ocih wrote:Thera systems are on the map and covert cyno's can be lit once in system?
Thera systems are not on the map and all traffic is herded through wormholes.
Those are the questions that determine how fast Thera content decays in to control by blob, exclusive to blues content. It's a w-space with some special rules thrown in, guess if cynoing capitals in is part of that equation when CCP Fozzie explicitly stated that you cannot bring or even build capitals in Thera ? Not to mention that no cynos or even clonevats for that matter work in regular w-space and I would be very surprised if they would work in Thera either.
And I said covert cyno's, not cyno's.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5658
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 19:43:28 -
[97] - Quote
Charlie Firpol wrote:There will be 1000 unsuccessful tries to get ships and modules in, people will be getting angry how CCP could even think this is a good idea. It will be a gankers paradise!
Then there will be very few people actually able to get ships and modules in, and they will sell them. For a ton of ISK. They might get filthy rich. And they will say it was the best idea ever. Its a good traders paradise!
Granted that when you can mine in almost total peace with Concord you see lots of min-maxing and isboxing galore too.
And if you are given a gankers paradise, an ability to create choke points and no space police, we'll see the SAME exact min-maxing obsession not with ISK but with kills.
But your assertion might not be correct. If it's a gankers paradise and only a few manage to get modules in for sale, who will buy them?
There won't be mining because that would last 30 seconds. But it's not known what the science and industry availability would be (knowledge check?)
If it is set up to be a gankers paradise and it's just "EC-P8R in wormhole" I would not be surprised to see a large alliance take control and make it possible to use it - for a protection fee of course. Or something like that. Who knows.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Tikitina
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
213
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 20:05:34 -
[98] - Quote
Ocih wrote:Baneken wrote:Ocih wrote:Thera systems are on the map and covert cyno's can be lit once in system?
Thera systems are not on the map and all traffic is herded through wormholes.
Those are the questions that determine how fast Thera content decays in to control by blob, exclusive to blues content. It's a w-space with some special rules thrown in, guess if cynoing capitals in is part of that equation when CCP Fozzie explicitly stated that you cannot bring or even build capitals in Thera ? Not to mention that no cynos or even clonevats for that matter work in regular w-space and I would be very surprised if they would work in Thera either. And I said covert cyno's, not cyno's.
I think "no cynos" means all types of cynos, including the covert ones.
The only advantages covert ones have anyways are that they don't show up as a celestial beacon and they bypass Sov cyno jammers. Oh, you can't warp to them either if they are on grid.
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Tikitina
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
213
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 20:10:00 -
[99] - Quote
Nick Bete wrote:Placing a major trade hub in the middle of a lawless piece of space is like placing a stock exchange in downtown Mogadishu. What could possibly go wrong?
CCP can't place a major trade hub anywhere. Its up to the players to decided where such a thing is.
All CCP can do is place a unique system with very different properties and see what happens. In any case, it will be interesting, especially where the backstory goes, as in things to come....
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5977
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 20:43:16 -
[100] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Ocih wrote:Thera systems are on the map and covert cyno's can be lit once in system?
Thera systems are not on the map and all traffic is herded through wormholes.
Those are the questions that determine how fast Thera content decays in to control by blob, exclusive to blues content. It's a w-space with some special rules thrown in, guess if cynoing capitals in is part of that equation when CCP Fozzie explicitly stated that you cannot bring or even build capitals in Thera ? Not to mention that no cynos or even clonevats for that matter work in regular w-space and I would be very surprised if they would work in Thera either. No capital ships doesn't necessarily mean no covert cyno's but I find it doubtful that Thera will be in range for a covert battleship bridge or jump into system.
However the NPC stations will be fully clone capable.
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Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
373
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Posted - 2014.11.12 20:57:42 -
[101] - Quote
Seems like a little lore time: Normal or covert cyno won't work because w-space are no one knows where except that they are far enough part for a cyno to not work from k-space or w-space. Cyno doesn't work in empire because of cyno jammers placed in each "civilized" system that empire has namely that is high sec and obviously empires also have better cyno jammers then capsuleers since they work on covert cynos as well but then again who knows what else was scooped by the empires before "project Crielere" fell flat on it's face.
That's the lore part the actual in-game reason is that CCP just didn't want you to easy mode stuff into W-holes nor dropping bombers on miners in high sec. |
Hamish McRothimay
Norse Complex Inc
2
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 21:24:04 -
[102] - Quote
Tikitina wrote:Nick Bete wrote:Placing a major trade hub in the middle of a lawless piece of space is like placing a stock exchange in downtown Mogadishu. What could possibly go wrong? CCP can't place a major trade hub anywhere. Its up to the players to decided where such a thing is. All CCP can do is place a unique system with very different properties and see what happens. In any case, it will be interesting, especially where the backstory goes, as in things to come....
I suppose you could push trade there by banning the sale of certain things in k-sapce markets and SCC doesn't wan capsuleers to have certain items
http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/scc-set-to-increase-prices-on-sleeper-components/ |
Cypher Decypher
Flowery Twats
36
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 22:13:11 -
[103] - Quote
Frankly, for now it's all postulating. We don't know until SISI just what the rules are. No Local, and big, That's all we know. The rest is up for grabs...
Since Fozzie mentioned that this is going to be a place of opportunity - and he laid a fairly loaded reference to industry - I suspect that Thera's physics will allow cynos. And possibly disallow bubbles. So given the inferred size (400+ AU anyone?) of Thera's dimensions, that would give the indy guys enough wiggle room to make it work.
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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
902
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 22:30:52 -
[104] - Quote
I predict Thera will be the place to 'find' mercenaries.
Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.
I invented Tiericide
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Heather Austrene
Fried Liver Attack
25
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 23:41:46 -
[105] - Quote
The one thing that I think could make it a center of trade, regardless of the risk from pirates, is if there was some game mechanic that made it SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper to manufacture there. |
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
75
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 00:08:19 -
[106] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Burl en Daire wrote:I don't know if they are but with any system that starts pushing 100 AU it is going to take a while to scan. The system I live in is just under 70 and combat probes at max range and max spread just covers it. Who knows if they'll bring them back but now is the time. A competent prober can hit specific targets in under 2 minutes upon entering a 70 au system with normal combat probes. making it 600 and not bring back deeps brings an element of luck to tracking down pvers.
I have all scanning skills maxed and mid virtues so I do pretty well at scanning so yes, even in 100+ AU systems scanning can be done quickly. 500+ systems will still be tough.
Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why.
Hunter S. Thompson
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Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3465
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 00:25:56 -
[107] - Quote
It will quickly become de-facto owned by one group, and occasionally change hands. It won't be anything like Jita, perhaps something closer to old VFK. It is human nature to secure advantages over your competition. If it can be secured, it will be, even if systems don't make it easy. |
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3465
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 00:28:01 -
[108] - Quote
Burl en Daire wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:Burl en Daire wrote:I don't know if they are but with any system that starts pushing 100 AU it is going to take a while to scan. The system I live in is just under 70 and combat probes at max range and max spread just covers it. Who knows if they'll bring them back but now is the time. A competent prober can hit specific targets in under 2 minutes upon entering a 70 au system with normal combat probes. making it 600 and not bring back deeps brings an element of luck to tracking down pvers. I have all scanning skills maxed and mid virtues so I do pretty well at scanning so yes, even in 100+ AU systems scanning can be done quickly. 500+ systems will still be tough.
Not really. It is mostly open space. Familiarity with how people move and anoms spawn means the actual area you have to cover by scans is still going to be miniscule unless you want a deep sweep. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5979
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 00:40:04 -
[109] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Burl en Daire wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:Burl en Daire wrote:I don't know if they are but with any system that starts pushing 100 AU it is going to take a while to scan. The system I live in is just under 70 and combat probes at max range and max spread just covers it. Who knows if they'll bring them back but now is the time. A competent prober can hit specific targets in under 2 minutes upon entering a 70 au system with normal combat probes. making it 600 and not bring back deeps brings an element of luck to tracking down pvers. I have all scanning skills maxed and mid virtues so I do pretty well at scanning so yes, even in 100+ AU systems scanning can be done quickly. 500+ systems will still be tough. Not really. It is mostly open space. Familiarity with how people move and anoms spawn means the actual area you have to cover by scans is still going to be miniscule unless you want a deep sweep. I have a strong hunch that anything worthwhile is going to be scattered mostly around the rim of the system, maximizing the difficulty of finding something and of getting people there quickly. That would best leverage some of the "natural advantages" the system would provide to free trade without too much in the way of artificial restrictions.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5979
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 00:42:08 -
[110] - Quote
Hamish McRothimay wrote:Tikitina wrote:Nick Bete wrote:Placing a major trade hub in the middle of a lawless piece of space is like placing a stock exchange in downtown Mogadishu. What could possibly go wrong? CCP can't place a major trade hub anywhere. Its up to the players to decided where such a thing is. All CCP can do is place a unique system with very different properties and see what happens. In any case, it will be interesting, especially where the backstory goes, as in things to come.... I suppose you could push trade there by banning the sale of certain things in k-sapce markets and SCC doesn't wan capsuleers to have certain items http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/scc-set-to-increase-prices-on-sleeper-components/ Good find! That could be part of the process to convert sleeper reverse engineering to be more like invention, or it could be a move to make these "new" systems THE place to manufacture tech 3.
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Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
814
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 05:04:46 -
[111] - Quote
Tikitina wrote:Ocih wrote:Baneken wrote:Ocih wrote:Thera systems are on the map and covert cyno's can be lit once in system?
Thera systems are not on the map and all traffic is herded through wormholes.
Those are the questions that determine how fast Thera content decays in to control by blob, exclusive to blues content. It's a w-space with some special rules thrown in, guess if cynoing capitals in is part of that equation when CCP Fozzie explicitly stated that you cannot bring or even build capitals in Thera ? Not to mention that no cynos or even clonevats for that matter work in regular w-space and I would be very surprised if they would work in Thera either. And I said covert cyno's, not cyno's. I think "no cynos" means all types of cynos, including the covert ones. The only advantages covert ones have anyways are that they don't show up as a celestial beacon and they bypass Sov cyno jammers. Oh, you can't warp to them either if they are on grid.
The 'advantage' to covert cyno is it allows Cyno without allowing capital. Only one ship can jump to a covert cyno, the Black Ops and very few ships can bridge to it. Ones with covert cloak options.
Ocih wrote:Thera systems are on the map and covert cyno's can be lit once in system?
Thera systems are not on the map and all traffic is herded through wormholes.
Those are the questions that determine how fast Thera content decays in to control by blob, exclusive to blues content.
That was my original comment. It still stands. Note, there are two considerations there. The second one being the likely of the two and the result mentioned. They will become part of the blue donut, just like most of Null. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5979
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 05:17:02 -
[112] - Quote
Quite possibly, although I believe the intention it to prevent the ability to easily have total control over the system via other mechanics. It remains to be seen if those mechanics will have the desired effect.
In fact Null entities could very well discover that even if they could expend the resources and manpower necessary to control the system, it might prove to be more advantageous for them not to in the long run.
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Nami Kumamato
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
314
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 09:37:51 -
[113] - Quote
The WH corps/alliances should declare it a Porto Franco and enforce security in it. After all, with this hub - wouldn't their economical reliance on K-Space be diminished significantly?
I mean now you will have the "high-bears" bringing goods at your doorstep day in and day out instead of the Holers having to find a way to Jita.
[i]"And now my ship is oh so cloaked and fit
It never felt so good, I never felt so hid"[/i]
- Ramona McCandless, Untitled
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Dave Stark
7151
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 09:43:25 -
[114] - Quote
i predict it'll be bugger all like jita, to be honest.
i mean, literally any system in null sec could be "jita without concord" how many are? pretty much 0. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2529
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 10:04:50 -
[115] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:i predict it'll be bugger all like jita, to be honest.
i mean, literally any system in null sec could be "jita without concord" how many are? pretty much 0. Depends on how many kspace exits it has at any given time, I suppose. Most 0.0 systems are , by definition, rather out of the way, making them unsuitable for use as a "hub" for the eve community as a whole. Jita, on the other hand, is in a geographically centralized location.
If it's got 20-30 kspace statics at a time, it'll be a hub of something for sure. |
Dave Stark
7152
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 10:48:21 -
[116] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Dave Stark wrote:i predict it'll be bugger all like jita, to be honest.
i mean, literally any system in null sec could be "jita without concord" how many are? pretty much 0. Depends on how many kspace exits it has at any given time, I suppose. Most 0.0 systems are , by definition, rather out of the way, making them unsuitable for use as a "hub" for the eve community as a whole. Jita, on the other hand, is in a geographically centralized location. If it's got 20-30 kspace statics at a time, it'll be a hub of something for sure.
even 20-30 ain't a lot, when you consider how many systems there are. |
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 11:44:41 -
[117] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Dave Stark wrote:i predict it'll be bugger all like jita, to be honest.
i mean, literally any system in null sec could be "jita without concord" how many are? pretty much 0. Depends on how many kspace exits it has at any given time, I suppose. Most 0.0 systems are , by definition, rather out of the way, making them unsuitable for use as a "hub" for the eve community as a whole. Jita, on the other hand, is in a geographically centralized location. If it's got 20-30 kspace statics at a time, it'll be a hub of something for sure. even 20-30 ain't a lot, when you consider how many systems there are.
it's all about the kevin bacon factor. If those 20 connections connect every system by a KBF of 2-5, then it's a hub. If over 50% are greater than 15, then it's not as much a hub. All depends on it's reach. |
Amseln deBrabant
Ochsenbruegger
13
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 11:50:51 -
[118] - Quote
It all depends on connectivity. If there are 100s of connections, the idea might work |
Amarrian Cougar
Veritas Theory Fidelas Constans
9
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 15:50:28 -
[119] - Quote
Thera will NOT be the next Jita, it won't even be the next Dodixie or Rens. It will most likely end up being the next Rancer.
No one is going to jump bulk amounts of goods into a system where they can be killed at will. Capitals aren't allowed so you can't even do it with some sneaky cyno tactics. While there may be no static gates, considering it takes a good prober under a minutes to find a wormhole entrance/exit, they're will still be bubbles out the wahzoo on all exits. Thera is just going to turn into a massive battleground, probably between the big coalitions. Whoever controls that system would have a hub that exits to all corners of the galaxy and would thus be the most important strategic system in the entire EVE universe. It would also be one of the most valuable systems in the EVE universe simply due to the amount of content it would create. No more looking for a fight, there will be gangs from all over coming in to cause trouble, all the time. Single serving fights at a moments notice.
Thera is going to be the PVP arena of EVE, not the new market arena. |
Nuela
Beacon Light Corporation Beacon Light Alliance
249
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 15:56:38 -
[120] - Quote
Heather Austrene wrote:The one thing that I think could make it a center of trade, regardless of the risk from pirates, is if there was some game mechanic that made it SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper to manufacture there.
Didn't think of that...it could work.
Say 2/3 of a mineral will count as 1. This would provoke both in and out flow as people try to bring in minerals as well as getting cheaper stuff out. |
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5981
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 16:19:24 -
[121] - Quote
Amarrian Cougar wrote:Thera will NOT be the next Jita, it won't even be the next Dodixie or Rens. It will most likely end up being the next Rancer.
No one is going to jump bulk amounts of goods into a system where they can be killed at will. Capitals aren't allowed so you can't even do it with some sneaky cyno tactics. While there may be no static gates, considering it takes a good prober under a minutes to find a wormhole entrance/exit, they're will still be bubbles out the wahzoo on all exits. Thera is just going to turn into a massive battleground, probably between the big coalitions. Whoever controls that system would have a hub that exits to all corners of the galaxy and would thus be the most important strategic system in the entire EVE universe. It would also be one of the most valuable systems in the EVE universe simply due to the amount of content it would create. No more looking for a fight, there will be gangs from all over coming in to cause trouble, all the time. Single serving fights at a moments notice.
Thera is going to be the PVP arena of EVE, not the new market arena. To be fair, they did not simply say "Thera will be the next Jita". They said "Thera will be like Jita without Concord, a major hub for those of a more lawless disposition". Commerce and manufacturing are implied with their emphasis on including all of the necessary facilities, as well as the game mechanics of the system making it much more difficult than normal to lock it down. But they at no point implied that it would be just like Jita in all ways, only in as far as it's capabilities and level of activity is concerned.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
|
Jvpiter
Jovelike
71
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 16:24:59 -
[122] - Quote
Amarrian Cougar wrote:Thera is going to be the PVP arena of EVE, not the new market arena.
The PVP arena of EVE is all of EVE. Nobody needs a named wormhole system for that.
Also I love your name. It gave me a nice giggle. |
Lakshata Chawla
Blue-Fire
109
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 16:32:46 -
[123] - Quote
Ka'Narlist wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?
Jita means a major trade hub where everyone and their mother brings their stuff to sell it. How do you think this will happen in a system where everyone is ganking everyone?
Im not seeing the difference... |
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
2
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 16:36:02 -
[124] - Quote
Lakshata Chawla wrote:Ka'Narlist wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?
Jita means a major trade hub where everyone and their mother brings their stuff to sell it. How do you think this will happen in a system where everyone is ganking everyone? Im not seeing the difference...
there's is a very very very small level of gankage in Jita. Made louder by disproportionatly loud complaints of victims.
It's roughly 99% odds of not being ganked, if you're not afk.
Compared to entering a 0.0 hub-ish system with the reverse. |
Cypher Decypher
Flowery Twats
37
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 17:25:40 -
[125] - Quote
Burl en Daire wrote:... I have all scanning skills maxed and mid virtues so I do pretty well at scanning so yes, even in 100+ AU systems scanning can be done quickly. 500+ systems will still be tough.
Sure - but you're making an assumption that within Thera they're keeping the "spawn within 8AU of a planet" rule. CCP could easily triple that or even spawn holes anywhere in-system - in which case even with 8 x 32AU probes at minimal overlap in a 200AU diameter system, you'll need at least half a dozen preliminary scans just to cover the full area.
The point is we don't know what mechanics CCP have adjusted - or indeed are keeping up their sleeve. What's pretty certain is that it will be a sandox within a sandbox, and CCP will be tweaking it to make it work. And as I see it, that will be led by finding the right balance between risk and reward for industrialists as well as the envisaged oasis of lawlessness and derring-do. |
Anslo
Scope Works
21243
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 17:32:42 -
[126] - Quote
Frig/dessie only holes.
Yes.
**** yes.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
Starrakatt
Hunter Killers. Forsaken Asylum
122
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 17:48:11 -
[127] - Quote
Thera Dev Blog is out: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/thera-and-the-shattered-wormholes/?_ga=1.47709351.1268328153.1415655716
342+ AU system, 4 SoE stations, interesting times are coming to us.
Forsaken Asylum's ways
|
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
602
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 18:04:36 -
[128] - Quote
And with all the currently interesting lore entries pointing at it Thera is getting more interesting by the day |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5985
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 21:13:24 -
[129] - Quote
Thanks for that. These things always happen while I'm at work.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
|
Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
125
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 21:39:47 -
[130] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Since we are about to have a new type of space introduced to New Eden, and THERA is poised to be the largest and most important system in that new type of space, who is going to be moving there on a permanent or part time basis? Perhaps more importantly, who is going to try and control it, if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity? Edit: It occurs to me that some people may not be up to speed on this, you can find a run down on what we know (and don't know) about Thera here.
If I were going, I wouldn't tell everyone on the forums.
As for jita without concord...
er no...
It won't be.
At best it will become a diplomatic outpost and meeting place for the elite scum of the cluster.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
|
|
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
247
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 21:40:46 -
[131] - Quote
Interesting Link, here are the new confirmed I learned:
Four NPC stations
K162 connections that can connect it to W-space
Freighters will be able to squeeze in
The stations are spread between three different planets at the edges of the system and warps between them can be up to 342 AU.
Anchored warp disruption bubbles will not be usable within Thera, although interdictor and heavy interdictor bubbles work normally.
The Thera system is colonized by a research expedition organized by The Sanctuary corporation, and more information about their presence in Thera will be revealed bit by bit in the future.
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5985
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 21:50:40 -
[132] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Interesting Link, here are the new confirmed I learned:
Four NPC stations
K162 connections that can connect it to W-space
Freighters will be able to squeeze in
The stations are spread between three different planets at the edges of the system and warps between them can be up to 342 AU.
Anchored warp disruption bubbles will not be usable within Thera, although interdictor and heavy interdictor bubbles work normally.
The Thera system is colonized by a research expedition organized by The Sanctuary corporation, and more information about their presence in Thera will be revealed bit by bit in the future.
Everything is pretty much as I thought it might be with one exception, I'm concerned that there are only 4 NPC stations there. Granted they are extremely far apart, but still 4 stations can be locked down by for coordinating teams. They just won't be able to back each other up quickly.
Well, that and they may have changed their mind about a system wide effect.... or simply want to bring it in a bit later as part of a storyline event.
Hmm, I wonder if this is going to affect the availability of SOE ships.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5985
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 21:55:00 -
[133] - Quote
Mharius Skjem wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Since we are about to have a new type of space introduced to New Eden, and THERA is poised to be the largest and most important system in that new type of space, who is going to be moving there on a permanent or part time basis? Perhaps more importantly, who is going to try and control it, if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity? Edit: It occurs to me that some people may not be up to speed on this, you can find a run down on what we know (and don't know) about Thera here. If I were going, I wouldn't tell everyone on the forums. As for jita without concord... er no... It won't be. At best it will become a diplomatic outpost and meeting place for the elite scum of the cluster. Possibly, but I think the activity levels in there will be a bit beyond what I would consider an "outpost", and that sounds pretty much exactly like what a Jita without Concord would be like.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
|
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
247
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 22:20:34 -
[134] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:Interesting Link, here are the new confirmed I learned:
Four NPC stations
K162 connections that can connect it to W-space
Freighters will be able to squeeze in
The stations are spread between three different planets at the edges of the system and warps between them can be up to 342 AU.
Anchored warp disruption bubbles will not be usable within Thera, although interdictor and heavy interdictor bubbles work normally.
The Thera system is colonized by a research expedition organized by The Sanctuary corporation, and more information about their presence in Thera will be revealed bit by bit in the future.
Everything is pretty much as I thought it might be with one exception, I'm concerned that there are only 4 NPC stations there. Granted they are extremely far apart, but still 4 stations can be locked down by for coordinating teams. They just won't be able to back each other up quickly. And if those 4 stations can be locked down even temporarily by heavy interdictors, thats going to create a rather large problem for a lot of the people that would like to manufacture there. Well, that and they may have changed their mind about a system wide effect.... or simply want to bring it in a bit later as part of a storyline event. Hmm, I wonder if this is going to affect the availability of SOE ships.
I was hoping there would be 8+ stations. 30-40 pilots on each station with bigger support fleets hanging out in the middle of the system might be enough to lock it down.
If I was still heavy into manufacture, I'd aim to have 200 plus interdictors ready to sell in those stations.
|
Nightingale Actault
Big Richard Club
38
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 22:25:19 -
[135] - Quote
Just to clarify, as it seems there are some misconceptions here regarding cynos in WHs.
You CAN light and use both regular and covert cynos in WHs.
You cannot jump to a cyno in a WH from another system, so a cyno lit in Thera will only be useable if both you and the cyno are within the Thera system. |
Paranoid Loyd
2608
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 22:26:04 -
[136] - Quote
I kinda felt like this came out of nowhere when I read it, makes plenty of sense now.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
|
Tollen Gallen
Glory of Reprisal Enterprise
8478
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 22:27:22 -
[137] - Quote
yes yes very nice.. new space... I want the Raven model on the table!!!
I like Battleships.
Zimmy Zeta - I f*cking love martinis. the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap.
Your old Friends can use me for 7 days, free!!!
|
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1781
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 22:36:29 -
[138] - Quote
It'll be the only trade hum more poorly stocked than Rebs. |
Paranoid Loyd
2608
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 22:39:10 -
[139] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:It'll be the only trade hum more poorly stocked than Rebs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZYKVNT-VWA
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5660
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 23:25:55 -
[140] - Quote
LOL
Here is what we call a "disconnect" in perception:
Quote:Anchored warp disruption bubbles will not be usable within Thera, although interdictor and heavy interdictor bubbles work normally.
Then:
Quote:As always, we know that our players will take EVEGÇÖs new features in creative directions that we at CCP can never fully foresee...
Uh.... Hello?
I'll take gankfest for 400.
I'm more interested in the "events" they speak of. I hope they are un-planned unscheduled live events like what was done for the Incursions. If it's more " OK here is what's going to happen at this exact time so everybody and their brother get ready!" then that too will be meh.
Skill que at 138 days...
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
|
Waltaratzor
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 00:43:36 -
[141] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Ka'Narlist wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?
Jita means a major trade hub where everyone and their mother brings their stuff to sell it. How do you think this will happen in a system where everyone is ganking everyone? A couple of reasons: 1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out. 2: It's connected to... literally... everywhere. Depending on how this is handled it could be the most convenient market hub in all of New Eden.
On point 1. The problem isn't getting into the system. Its getting into the trade station itself, which will undoubtedly be camped 23/7. Especially if you are in a freighter. And if freighters can't navigate it, it won't be a trade hub. |
Nightingale Actault
Big Richard Club
38
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 01:00:07 -
[142] - Quote
Waltaratzor wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Ka'Narlist wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?
Jita means a major trade hub where everyone and their mother brings their stuff to sell it. How do you think this will happen in a system where everyone is ganking everyone? A couple of reasons: 1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out. 2: It's connected to... literally... everywhere. Depending on how this is handled it could be the most convenient market hub in all of New Eden. On point 1. The problem isn't getting into the system. Its getting into the trade station itself, which will undoubtedly be camped 23/7. Especially if you are in a freighter. And if freighters can't navigate it, it won't be a trade hub.
I disagree, I've stocked a trade hub personally using nothing but Blockade Runners and DST. It sure takes a lot longer than a freighter or JF, but it can be done. |
Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
170
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 01:16:53 -
[143] - Quote
Thera looks like a cool place. It won't work as a hub. The only hubs in PvP space that work are those used by major territory holding alliances where access to them can be controlled. Bubbles or no bubbles, anywhere that can be gotten to by anybody will fail as a trade hub. Thera will be taken over by a group. If that group runs some kind of police operation like an altered version of NRDS where they punish all aggressors, a diverse Mos Eisley culture will develop. But if the group that gains control of Thera ends up shooting anyone that isn't them, it will be used as a raid center.
Most likely the Goons will take it over and use its random connections to raid far off lands. |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere Republic of the 5phere
869
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 01:18:31 -
[144] - Quote
Wait, are bubbles allowed? If so, I can see some dedicated groups looking to take complete control, regardless of the size of the system. Specifically Null sec groups, I can imagine them seeing a massive advantage in owning a system that connects to pretty much everywhere.
Assuming bubbles are not allowed, I'm extremely excited at the idea of Thera. I might even move there and live the dream!
Post with your main, like a BOSS!
And no, i don't live in highsec. -áAs if that would make your opinion any less wrong. -á
|
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
177
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 01:40:00 -
[145] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:Wait, are bubbles allowed? If so, I can see some dedicated groups looking to take complete control, regardless of the size of the system. Specifically Null sec groups, I can imagine them seeing a massive advantage in owning a system that connects to pretty much everywhere. Assuming bubbles are not allowed, I'm extremely excited at the idea of Thera. I might even move there and live the dream!
No anchorable bubbles are allowed. Hictor and dictor bubbles are still allowed, but depending on the geometry of the stations it's probably not going to be hard to avoid them. |
Cypher Decypher
Flowery Twats
37
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 09:24:08 -
[146] - Quote
Bullet Therapist wrote:Xen Solarus wrote:Wait, are bubbles allowed? If so, I can see some dedicated groups looking to take complete control, regardless of the size of the system. Specifically Null sec groups, I can imagine them seeing a massive advantage in owning a system that connects to pretty much everywhere. Assuming bubbles are not allowed, I'm extremely excited at the idea of Thera. I might even move there and live the dream! No anchorable bubbles are allowed. Hictor and dictor bubbles are still allowed, but depending on the geometry of the stations it's probably not going to be hard to avoid them.
I played on SISI last night and mosied around Thera for a few hours. There are 4 SoE stations, two of which are barely 350km apart. It will be pretty simple to strangle traffic to any of them with a group of hictors, particularly undocking, which makes the place unattractive to industrialists trying to push freighters (which are allowed) through.
Basically, Thera will be ripe for a large corp/alliance takeover unless CCP further alter the mechanics. |
Aivo Dresden
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
390
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 09:36:47 -
[147] - Quote
You guys do realise that there won't be any gates there, or back right? You will have to fit a probe launcher, or take an alt scanner. Even then, finding WH exits to people who are not experienced with it, can be tricky and time consuming. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
21273
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 09:49:44 -
[148] - Quote
Aivo Dresden wrote:You guys do realise that there won't be any gates there, or back right? You will have to fit a probe launcher, or take an alt scanner. Even then, finding WH exits to people who are not experienced with it, can be tricky and time consuming. Yep sure. I'll go take a look and spend some time there if there is a well stocked market.
Should be a good place to shoot and be shot at.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Aivo Dresden
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
390
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 09:53:57 -
[149] - Quote
I think a lot of people forget how WHs work. You can only put so much mass through a hole as well. You won't be able to just fly through a 100+ battleship fleet. Forget about that. You'll also close the hole behind you, so getting back to your K-space staging system might be a bit of a pain.
It'll be interesting for sure, but I think a lot of people just aren't really familiar with WH mechanics and are being wildly ... imaginative. |
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
2
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 10:55:48 -
[150] - Quote
Nightingale Actault wrote: I disagree, I've stocked a trade hub personally using nothing but Blockade Runners and DST. It sure takes a lot longer than a freighter or JF, but it can be done.
just because it can, don't mean it will. It's all effort versus reward, and volume. BR's are tiny by comparison and markets can be hungry. Chances are, unless you're allied with the controlling forces, then you will not be able to keep up, and the allied suppliers will be high enough in volume to keep prices low enough so as to not make it worth anyon'es while spending time and effort on a high risk venture (whene there's better and easier rewards elsewhere).
|
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Moraguth
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
120
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 11:01:37 -
[151] - Quote
I approve of this thinly veiled attempt to promote your youtube channel. well played.
I got a Feature Added!
Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn". It is "uh-bad-in"
dictionary.com/abaddon
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Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1542
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 12:07:54 -
[152] - Quote
I think there need to be more stations if there are bubbles. Four will just be camped.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Dave Stark
7167
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 12:35:21 -
[153] - Quote
Aivo Dresden wrote:You guys do realise that there won't be any gates there, or back right? You will have to fit a probe launcher, or take an alt scanner. Even then, finding WH exits to people who are not experienced with it, can be tricky and time consuming.
wormholes are one of the only places i've never lived...
but if thera has a bunch of high sec statics surely finding a way in to thera is literally as easy as logging on to a character inside thera, scanning a wormhole that connects to kspace... and well, yeah that's it. there's your kspace entrance to thera. |
Dornlin Labiani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 12:46:03 -
[154] - Quote
Nightingale Actault wrote:Waltaratzor wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Ka'Narlist wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?
Jita means a major trade hub where everyone and their mother brings their stuff to sell it. How do you think this will happen in a system where everyone is ganking everyone? A couple of reasons: 1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out. 2: It's connected to... literally... everywhere. Depending on how this is handled it could be the most convenient market hub in all of New Eden. On point 1. The problem isn't getting into the system. Its getting into the trade station itself, which will undoubtedly be camped 23/7. Especially if you are in a freighter. And if freighters can't navigate it, it won't be a trade hub. I disagree, I've stocked a trade hub personally using nothing but Blockade Runners and DST. It sure takes a lot longer than a freighter or JF, but it can be done.
I agree with you. Could be done. Probably won't be based on the description of the system as it stands.
Looks like a free for all zone, though I suppose you could bring in compressed ore and blueprint copies to make ships for profit. But it's going to be very dangerous.
Risking 125m in ship, plus fitting, is not really a problem. Losing the cargo is. Any medium or small operations will avoid this. Once again it's big-boy-land. Not a negative. But it's not a place that my people would go. |
Liz Laser
Blood Tribe Inc Circle-Of-Two
73
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 17:41:44 -
[155] - Quote
I'm going to agree with the people who said Freeport and ThunderDome.
I got to experience the FreePort and ThunderDome experiments in the Delve/Querious about 2 years ago, so I'll definitely poke my head in with an alt and see what Thera turns into.
|
Winter Archipelago
Thera Industries
287
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 20:27:14 -
[156] - Quote
I absolutely plan on being there, and I intend to try and get a bit of industry running. It'll be a fun experiment, if nothing else.
Consequently, and shameless promotion, I've created a channel in-game called Thera Industries as a general public chat for industrialists planning to try living there.
Join the channel Thera Industries in-game for a general public channel for Thera-based industrialists.
|
Aurelius Valentius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
394
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 20:42:32 -
[157] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:I absolutely plan on being there, and I intend to try and get a bit of industry running. It'll be a fun experiment, if nothing else.
Consequently, and shameless promotion, I've created a channel in-game called Thera Industries as a general public chat for industrialists planning to try living there.
Noted for future war targets... thanks. \o/!
|
Toria Nynys
Surly Dinos
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 21:08:31 -
[158] - Quote
I can't see this working as intended. Static wormholes are just gates, minus aggression countdown and guns. Thera is no different than Rancer or Amamake with a few more gates. In fact, with bubbles, it's even WORSE.
Normally I'd put an alt there and run a few blueprints in just in case it's profitable, but seeing as I'm down to one account that's not happening either.
Might be a fun place for people to generate KMs and a shortcut for w-space dwellers to highsec. I can't see it being a freeport system, there's just nothing to encourage that.
|
Winter Archipelago
Thera Industries
287
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 21:11:47 -
[159] - Quote
Aurelius Valentius wrote:Winter Archipelago wrote:I absolutely plan on being there, and I intend to try and get a bit of industry running. It'll be a fun experiment, if nothing else.
Consequently, and shameless promotion, I've created a channel in-game called Thera Industries as a general public chat for industrialists planning to try living there. Noted for future war targets... thanks. \o/! Thera is in W-Space. W-Space is 0.0. If you're wasting 50m on a wardec, well... you're wasting 50m on a wardec.
Toria Nynys wrote: In fact, with bubbles, it's even WORSE.
No anchorable bubbles, according to CCP.
Join the channel Thera Industries in-game for a general public channel for Thera-based industrialists.
|
Toria Nynys
Surly Dinos
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 21:29:01 -
[160] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:[quote=Aurelius Valentius]
No anchorable bubbles, according to CCP.
Ceptor/dictor bubbles are good enough to pull people out of warp. Not as low maintenace, but still ++danger.
Complete theorycraft until it goes live + a few weeks. I fully expect to join massive blobs destined for or passing through Thera for purposes of raiding. Trading and manufacturing there? Not so much. Even though I have perfect Sissies standings.
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Bed Bugg
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 07:15:47 -
[161] - Quote
The viability of this as any sort of trade hub will not just be the ability to get into it. Probably the bigger concern will be the ability to undock.
Undock mechanics will really be a big key.
Poor mechanics will make it "Hotel California". You can check in anytime you like, but you can never leave
Anyone have any updates on New Rancer from the test server?
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corebloodbrothers
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
664
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 14:31:02 -
[162] - Quote
To me its more a thunderdome then a market hub. Ofc people will sneak stuff in, and public contracts eill hold small ships at a inflated price, as demand suply blabla
Big warps between stations make simulatanious fukl control hard. Nu anchorable bubles, and a delayed local are all going to be fun. Nullified gangs, snipers, it will all be there. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1552
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 19:21:16 -
[163] - Quote
Yep, can't see this becoming a major market hub. Bubbles and only four stations will limit that pretty severely.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
|
Saisin
State War Academy Caldari State
188
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 22:13:21 -
[164] - Quote
I really like the reference Fozzie made about Sigil, the Dungeons & Dragons planescape city connected to all other realms and dimensions...
There is great potential, I am just concerned that four stations only may be too easy to shut down by the largest groups...
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope...
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
988
|
Posted - 2014.11.16 08:21:09 -
[165] - Quote
*reads up on Thera*
Ok.
No bubbles (NO DAMN BUBBLES) except for dictors and heavy dictors.
Huge system.
No moons. No PI.
No local (WH space....wheeee).
No caps (but freighters/JF's can squeeze in, barely).
This isn't going to replace Jita, but for some people its going to be absolutely glorious.
Glorious, I tell you.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5664
|
Posted - 2014.11.16 09:08:01 -
[166] - Quote
A part of me hopes that Thera will be like Tortuga from POTC.
But my experience with the min-max sperglords tells me that it'll be get pulled out of warp then die and that's that.
It might be assumed that I'm referring to killmail min maxers, but I'm not. I refer to the ones already in place, doing with they do best that we all have written and read about.
And this means that nobody will be hunting the hunters because you don't maximize your ISK doing that.
Meaning that "Tortuga becomes the place the Black Pearl went to get a crew after being raised from the deep "and was sunk in 24 hours end of story (or, no story at all for that matter and no game at all for that other matter where this analogy is made).
Get rid of all kinds of bubbles and we'll have a cauldron of PVP. Keep the dictor bubbles and we'll have a WTFOMGBBQPWMWellThatSuckedBackToIncursionsMeh,
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
245
|
Posted - 2014.11.16 09:32:05 -
[167] - Quote
Nuela wrote:
Exactly. I will take risks...it's just that, In Eve, there is very little reward worth the extra risk.
You just tell that to yourself to make you feel better about your risk averse self. |
Grey Stone
Fatal and The rabbit The G0dfathers
28
|
Posted - 2014.11.16 11:09:35 -
[168] - Quote
I personally would like if CCP would make any kind of bubbles in Thera impossible. I think it would make this system much more believable and fun. People would need to work harder to get kills. my 2c. |
Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
178
|
Posted - 2014.11.16 23:27:37 -
[169] - Quote
Yeah I posted my initial skepticism about Thera as a trade hub a few pages back.
Putting a lot of entrances and exits into the system will make the system as a whole impossible to lock down. However, there are only 4 stations. 4 stations are not hard to lock down.
If CCP wants Thera to be a trade hub, they need to come up with some uniquely powerful station guns that work like CONCORD or something. Basically that will give us high sec stations in WH space.
Failing that, Thera can't be a trade hub. it can still be a really cool system for people to go visit. But it won't live up to its expectations until people can freely dock and undock from the stations. I am writing this post for the future. From what I am getting, when they say something is coming out during the next release, they are usually pretty much done with the major technological issues of it. They respond to feedback but usually only to adjust numbers or make changes that don't require much code. Anyway, my suspicion is that at this point Thera will be hitting the market as currently written. But for the expansion AFTER Thera, you could add some really intense station guns to make sure anybody can dock and undock. Then, given the huge number of entrances and exits from the system, savvy traders could get in and out.
The station guns should shoot bubbles as well as aggressive ships. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
5190
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 00:00:33 -
[170] - Quote
Well, a covert nullified strategic cruiser can haul in some 1k m-¦ in minerals at a time.
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
|
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
2134
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 00:30:14 -
[171] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Yep, can't see this becoming a major market hub. Bubbles and only four stations will limit that pretty severely.
Edit: which is a great shame. In a way this could be harder to stock than null systems because you can't JF in. I believe you can cyno jump within the same wormhole system.
Interesting, isn't it?
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
Moraguth
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
124
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 01:33:49 -
[172] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Zappity wrote:Yep, can't see this becoming a major market hub. Bubbles and only four stations will limit that pretty severely.
Edit: which is a great shame. In a way this could be harder to stock than null systems because you can't JF in. I believe you can cyno jump within the same wormhole system. Interesting, isn't it?
Yeah, that was my thinking for being a pirate in the system. Covert cynos would allow your entire cov ops fleet to cross the entire system on a moment's notice. I guess it would work for jump freighters too (so long as they can get in system without being bubbled).
I got a Feature Added!
Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn". It is "uh-bad-in"
dictionary.com/abaddon
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Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
1056
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 02:42:18 -
[173] - Quote
A market hub with WH rules. Boy, I see no room for exploitation there. Especially if a large group with coms decides to show up and use it to grief all known space. Luckily EvE does not have people like that, very large groups who sole purpose is to destroy games.
Looks like we dodged a bullet there thanks to CCP fully thinking this change through.
This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
|
Telegram Sam
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1396
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 02:46:17 -
[174] - Quote
Late in discussion, but OP's posted video was excellent, I thought. Well reasoned, fact-checked, background researched, precision edited, and voice-presented like a Morgan Freeman. Total pro. Do you get paid for this kind of stuff in RL?
Will check your 'Youtube channel again. |
WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame
3618
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 08:17:39 -
[175] - Quote
Goons. =ƒÆ¢=ƒÆÖ=ƒÆ£=ƒÆÜG¥ñ=ƒÆö
A.K.A Hodor Von Grootenberg
I'm a Snaper - imgur.com/8EHPPWU
-
mad? ( -í° -£-û -í°)
|
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
3
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 09:06:52 -
[176] - Quote
corebloodbrothers wrote:To me its more a thunderdome then a market hub. Ofc people will sneak stuff in, and public contracts eill hold small ships at a inflated price, as demand suply blabla
Big warps between stations make simulatanious fukl control hard. Nu anchorable bubles, and a delayed local are all going to be fun. Nullified gangs, snipers, it will all be there.
seriosuly? Four stations makes simultaneous contorl hard? Do you ever play eve? Locking down four areas in one system is easy. Four groups of people. Bing, done. What's so hard? The distance between stations is irrelevant if people don't need to move between them.
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Snagletooth Johnson
Snagle Material Services CAStabouts
192
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 12:16:30 -
[177] - Quote
Bwhahahah. A merchant going to Thera will be like driving a beer truck through Detroit...at night...with the doors open...with Ice Cream truck music playing...while stuck in second gear...
...I could go on, but I think you all get the point. |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
208
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 13:21:08 -
[178] - Quote
You know there is life outside of highsec. Indeed some people almost never venture into highsec. As for "we need lots of stuff before its good for trade and to live there". Our wormhole had no trade hub in it at all. We bring everything with us. In our old C2 there was at least 2 people who didn't even base out of a POS.
As for locking the system down. Well with only hics and interdictors, it is at least harder. Also there is a rumor that station guns may not like bubbles or bubblers. But we will have to see. Of course there is not a lot of point in doing this unless there is someone to play with. Even the f1 monkeys in the big corps get bored.
As for more stations? How many stations are in jita? I don't know, i only ever use one the very rare times i am there. Howmany of you have every used any of the other stations.
This place, and the 100 other new WH systems all sound like a lot of fun to me.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
|
Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
181
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 14:52:30 -
[179] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:You know there is life outside of highsec. Indeed some people almost never venture into highsec. As for "we need lots of stuff before its good for trade and to live there". Our wormhole had no trade hub in it at all. We bring everything with us. In our old C2 there was at least 2 people who didn't even base out of a POS.
As for locking the system down. Well with only hics and interdictors, it is at least harder. Also there is a rumor that station guns may not like bubbles or bubblers. But we will have to see. Of course there is not a lot of point in doing this unless there is someone to play with. Even the f1 monkeys in the big corps get bored.
As for more stations? How many stations are in jita? I don't know, i only ever use one the very rare times i am there. Howmany of you have every used any of the other stations.
This place, and the 100 other new WH systems all sound like a lot of fun to me.
It will be a lot of fun.......for people to mess around, explore, and fight in.
It's just that CCP is hoping that it will be one of the most populated systems in space so they are making sure it has an uncrashable server. That won't happen.
They are making an exception to the no caps rule for freighters because they want it to become a trade hub. That won't happen.
The goons are going to come in and put 50 dictors at each of the 4 stations and perm camp it and blow up anyone who undocks.
Thera will be cool and it will be fun. It's just not going to be the Jita in WH space they hope it will be. The only way they will achieve their goals is to make the stations uncampable by having some station guns that shoot 500K HP damage at anything that violates a yellow safety setting within 10K of the station. If you want to make Thera a freeport, you need the 4 ports to be free. The rest of the system can be complete lawless WH space. But you have to protect the ports for docking and undocking.
I think everybody agrees with you that Thera is some very welcome and super cool new lore related content, the first in years (other than mission types and whatnot). It's a real major deal and we're all really excited. But it's not going to be one of the most populated systems in Eve rivaling Jita or anything. If they want that they need to protect the stations. |
DeadDuck
Mining Industry Exile Foundation The Camel Empire
128
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 15:43:03 -
[180] - Quote
Seems THE place to go for some pew pew. Instead of roaming around you will go there on the 1st place. |
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Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
425
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 17:47:07 -
[181] - Quote
Saisin wrote:I really like the reference Fozzie made about Sigil, the Dungeons & Dragons planescape city connected to all other realms and dimensions...
There is great potential, I am just concerned that four stations only may be too easy to shut down by the largest groups... That depends on the stations. What if they themselves were huge, and had multiple undocking points; you couldn't cloak up beside them with out being 10's of kilometers from the undock.
I am a pod pilot:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
|
Ardevealca Capella
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 17:51:58 -
[182] - Quote
Will there be asteroid belts full of mercoxit ore? |
Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
182
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 18:57:55 -
[183] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:Saisin wrote:I really like the reference Fozzie made about Sigil, the Dungeons & Dragons planescape city connected to all other realms and dimensions...
There is great potential, I am just concerned that four stations only may be too easy to shut down by the largest groups... That depends on the stations. What if they themselves were huge, and had multiple undocking points; you couldn't cloak up beside them with out being 10's of kilometers from the undock.
Or what if they had station guns that worked like CONCORD?
Thera will be really cool on release, but solutions to the station problem will need to be implemented with further releases. I guarantee it. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5675
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 20:11:31 -
[184] - Quote
Snagletooth Johnson wrote:Bwhahahah. A merchant going to Thera will be like driving a beer truck through Detroit...at night...with the doors open...with Ice Cream truck music playing...while stuck in second gear...
...I could go on, but I think you all get the point.
:-D I LOLed!
I would also add: with Bud Girls hanging off the back.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6009
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 22:54:33 -
[185] - Quote
Telegram Sam wrote:Late in discussion, but OP's posted video was excellent, I thought. Well reasoned, fact-checked, background researched, precision edited, and voice-presented like a Morgan Freeman. Total pro. Do you get paid for this kind of stuff in RL?
Will check your 'Youtube channel again. Thanks for that!. I just need to get off my lazy butt and get on the test server.
Too much time editing, not enough time playing.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
|
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
157
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 23:29:05 -
[186] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
And this means that nobody will be hunting the hunters because you don't maximize your ISK doing that.
Hey Herzog, Hope you are well.
I've been watching the topic of Thera as this is something I am very interested in.
I think that the introduction of Thera will prompt the rise of the security corps/alliances who for a fee will attempt to keep people safe within Thera. If this is Truly going to be a Jita without concord then all of the stations will be perma camped.
I think something like Hub Zero could work here because working in a team has lots of advantages. If Hub Zero has taught me anything it's the fact that there are some cool guys out there who like to help people. There are lots of people who would enjoy helping others get to Thera for example scout a wormhole entrance for them to see if its camped. Intel sharing among a trusted group could be valuable to those involved.
My future actions may involve starting a corp that specializes in security for Thera, I may also create an alliance for small corps and solo players who want a better chance at survival within Thera. I would want to aim it at helping the little guy.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
|
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
6
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 09:44:27 -
[187] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:Saisin wrote:I really like the reference Fozzie made about Sigil, the Dungeons & Dragons planescape city connected to all other realms and dimensions...
There is great potential, I am just concerned that four stations only may be too easy to shut down by the largest groups... That depends on the stations. What if they themselves were huge, and had multiple undocking points; you couldn't cloak up beside them with out being 10's of kilometers from the undock.
you seriosuly think people would need to cloak? lol This wouldn't be covert campage, this would be blob gankage. There's going to be no subtly about the camping of these four stations. |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
380
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 09:53:03 -
[188] - Quote
Two stations 350km apart -> place a hictors in undocks -> place a snipe fleet in middle -> go to town.
|
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
6
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 09:59:43 -
[189] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Two stations 350km apart -> place a hictors in undocks -> place a snipe fleet in middle -> go to town.
weren't they 350 AU apart? ... that would be some damn long snipage! |
ggodhsup
internet spaceship relocation movement
14
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 10:09:01 -
[190] - Quote
im excited about this place....im also really curious about how they intend to keep the stations form being camped till down time everyday.
aught to be fun either way. |
|
Square PI
Hedion University Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 12:31:35 -
[191] - Quote
Every time CCP tried to "control" the player trade hubs it failed.
Does everyone remember Yulai?
The player decide where they want to do the trades. And if the new system is worth it, it might happen that the trades move over to it. But i really doubt it. |
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
6
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 13:21:12 -
[192] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:A couple of reasons:
1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out.
2: It's connected to... literally... everywhere. Depending on how this is handled it could be the most convenient market hub in all of New Eden.
yup, difficutl and impossible to lock down four points? Four stations is four points. And unless stations are gunna be several AU wide, no matter how big they are a gang will be able to run around it easy as pie. One gang on each gate. You just have to look at the perma 'camp' outside several HI-sec places right now - 0.0 alliances can easily replicate that if they choose to base out of a system for strategic control.
And don't forget, strategic control is not always about aquisition of something for using it. It can quite often be aquisiation so that your opponent can't use it.
So, saying a system is big ... is irrelevant to saying it can't be locked down. Make 20 stations, or 30 ... 'then' you might be getting close to a massive headache to lock it down for even the larger alliances. But even then, it's not 'impossible'.
You don't need a massive number of ships to prevent trade. The threat alone is enough to stifle it significantly.
|
Ralen Zateki
Void.Tech Get Off My Lawn
178
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 16:40:50 -
[193] - Quote
[quote1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out.[/quote]
Yup. Just like Titans were too big and too resource intensive for anyone to... uh... oopsy... nevermind.
Ya I'll check it out just 'cuz every now and then I like to visit the zoo. And I love the driving through Detroit analogy... |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
380
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 18:03:59 -
[194] - Quote
Leannor wrote:Baneken wrote:Two stations 350km apart -> place a hictors in undocks -> place a snipe fleet in middle -> go to town. weren't they 350 AU apart? ... that would be some damn long snipage!
There are 4 stations in total of which 2 are 350AU and 2 are only 350km a part i.e. practically on same grid. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6964
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 19:11:19 -
[195] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Leannor wrote:Baneken wrote:Two stations 350km apart -> place a hictors in undocks -> place a snipe fleet in middle -> go to town. weren't they 350 AU apart? ... that would be some damn long snipage! There are 4 stations in total of which 2 are 350AU and 2 are only 350km a part i.e. practically on same grid. They are on the same grid, that's where everyone is brawling on sisi
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
5207
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 19:16:25 -
[196] - Quote
One block of compressed veldspar is 417 m-¦. These should be a mandatory item to put into the cargo for anyone jumping into Thera from k-space. Only way to get anything close to industry going there.
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
|
Bed Bugg
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 23:01:54 -
[197] - Quote
If the system can be locked down... It will be.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6012
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 01:14:19 -
[198] - Quote
Leannor wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:A couple of reasons:
1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out.
2: It's connected to... literally... everywhere. Depending on how this is handled it could be the most convenient market hub in all of New Eden. yup, difficutl and impossible to lock down four points? Four stations is four points. And unless stations are gunna be several AU wide, no matter how big they are a gang will be able to run around it easy as pie. One gang on each gate. You just have to look at the perma 'camp' outside several HI-sec places right now - 0.0 alliances can easily replicate that if they choose to base out of a system for strategic control. And don't forget, strategic control is not always about aquisition of something for using it. It can quite often be aquisiation so that your opponent can't use it. So, saying a system is big ... is irrelevant to saying it can't be locked down. Make 20 stations, or 30 ... 'then' you might be getting close to a massive headache to lock it down for even the larger alliances. But even then, it's not 'impossible'. You don't need a massive number of ships to prevent trade. The threat alone is enough to stifle it significantly. Hello leannor, one point that you and the poster above you should remember is that the statement you have quoted was made well before it was revealed that there would be only 4 NPC stations in Thera.
That being said, it will still be next to impossible to for a single organization to effectively lock down the "system"... but unless there is more to be revealed it will be fairly easy to lock down the "stations".
So yes, unfortunately a relatively small force can prevent most of the commercial features of Thera to go unused as it stands now... but even a very large entity is unlikely to prevent large amounts of traffic from using Thera's other advantage as a major hub for travel and PVP activity. Much still depends though on just how many high sec statics they are, where those statics go, and how many (and how frequently) wandering wormholes open up there.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
|
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
159
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 03:46:16 -
[199] - Quote
Lets face it, it will be easy to do a covert camp on the wormhole entrances that lead to more populated K-space. We all think in similar ways and Freighters will obviously gain access to Thera via hi sec entrances because it will be less risk going via null or 0.0. I very much doubt the solo guy with a freighter will ever risk bringing it in. I think K-space alliances and wormhole corps will lead the way in stocking markets because they have the manpower to provide heavy escorts and they already do similar operations on a daily.
We also have to consider that if the sleeper sites are going to be level 3/4 and if there are more of them that respawn faster then people may adapt and not even bother using the stations.
I think this is about coin. Whoever controls Thera can sell blue status for a large fee and use the coin to equip their men ensure stations are not camped. There are ways to stop a station being camped if you can get a good set of guys together.
I feel as if this is my calling, The defence of a single system is right up my street and it is something I am keen to do again.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
|
James Rapture
Dead Star Syndicate I'd Rather Be Roaming
5
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 16:02:48 -
[200] - Quote
I think there is a reason why CCP wants Thera to be a hub. This system will be the staging point when player created stargates come around. Why so much room in the system? To prevent it from being locked down? Maybe. Probably. But I think it also to have plenty of room around for groups to setup shop for mini mobile bases and/or stargate building projects. As someone mentioned before, you can live in a WH out of POS. The idea of a Sigil type of city is closer than we think. A system with doors to everywhere known, to lead to anywhere unknown... |
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Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
9
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 16:19:46 -
[201] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Hello leannor, one point that you and the poster above you should remember is that the statement you have quoted was made well before it was revealed that there would be only 4 NPC stations in Thera. That being said, it will still be next to impossible to for a single organization to effectively lock down the "system"... but unless there is more to be revealed it will be fairly easy to lock down the "stations". So yes, unfortunately a relatively small force can cause most of the commercial features of Thera to go unused as it stands now... but even a very large entity is unlikely to prevent large amounts of traffic from using Thera's other advantage as a major hub for travel and PVP activity. Much still depends though on just how many high sec statics there are, where those statics go, and how many (and how frequently) wandering wormholes open up there.
Good response.
My thoughts would that if itGÇÖs going to be a hub, that means trade (as in make/buy/sell) or occupation (ie extract/indy/pvp), it has to revolve around stations. Unless there is some major revolutionary mechanism that will move EVE activity away from stations GÇô and that would be GÇÿmajorGÇÖ. The use of POS in WH is close, but it still feels small to me, and certainly wouldnGÇÖt be the idea in Thera it seems.
If itGÇÖs not a Hub as above, then there really is no other kind of Hub. Transport hubs in EVE have another name: Choke Points. And if this is just a transport hub, then itGÇÖs going to be a Choke Point. Albeit with a difference, lots of moving entry points, potential for player constructed (private use?) gates etc GǪ
You canGÇÖt just GÇÿnameGÇÖ a system as a Hub. HubGÇÖs develop naturally out of demand and opportunity. ThatGÇÖs why Yulai is dead now, the demand was there but the opportunity got taken away when it became isolated. Literally overnight.
And, if it is stations based, then, something will need to be done to prevent four perma camps (even if they rotate between a few factions they will still prevent free and open trade GÇô proper traders needs routine, not waste gaps of inaccessibility).
This, regardless, will be interesting to watch though. nüè
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
|
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
96
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 17:27:18 -
[202] - Quote
Give me a reason to. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6015
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 00:55:25 -
[203] - Quote
Leannor wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Hello leannor, one point that you and the poster above you should remember is that the statement you have quoted was made well before it was revealed that there would be only 4 NPC stations in Thera. That being said, it will still be next to impossible to for a single organization to effectively lock down the "system"... but unless there is more to be revealed it will be fairly easy to lock down the "stations". So yes, unfortunately a relatively small force can cause most of the commercial features of Thera to go unused as it stands now... but even a very large entity is unlikely to prevent large amounts of traffic from using Thera's other advantage as a major hub for travel and PVP activity. Much still depends though on just how many high sec statics there are, where those statics go, and how many (and how frequently) wandering wormholes open up there. Good response. My thoughts would that if itGÇÖs going to be a hub, that means trade (as in make/buy/sell) or occupation (ie extract/indy/pvp), it has to revolve around stations. Unless there is some major revolutionary mechanism that will move EVE activity away from stations GÇô and that would be GÇÿmajorGÇÖ. The use of POS in WH is close, but it still feels small to me, and certainly wouldnGÇÖt be the idea in Thera it seems. If itGÇÖs not a Hub as above, then there really is no other kind of Hub. Transport hubs in EVE have another name: Choke Points. And if this is just a transport hub, then itGÇÖs going to be a Choke Point. Albeit with a difference, lots of moving entry points, potential for player constructed (private use?) gates etc GǪ You canGÇÖt just GÇÿnameGÇÖ a system as a Hub. HubGÇÖs develop naturally out of demand and opportunity. ThatGÇÖs why Yulai is dead now, the demand was there but the opportunity got taken away when it became isolated. Literally overnight. And, if it is stations based, then, something will need to be done to prevent four perma camps (even if they rotate between a few factions they will still prevent free and open trade GÇô proper traders needs routine, not waste gaps of inaccessibility). This, regardless, will be interesting to watch though. nüè Indeed it will.
I have left thoughts on why we keep fixating on only part of Fozzies statement that it will be like a "Jita without Concord".... IE we focus on the Jita reference, and tend to ignore the rest of the statement. Jita without Concord would actually not be a trade hub any longer, but merely a killzone of epic proportions until another hub evolved.
I won't go into that again, but something else occurred to me as I read your post. We all heard of the tentative plans to evolve POS's into something more than they are now... and we also know that they should be revamped relatively soon. The reason why I bring this up in relation to Thera is that some of the things discussed about the future of POS's might be relevant. That being:
Being able to place them anywhere, not just at moons. Being able to link multiple POS structures together, in effect form POS cities or outposts. Being able to trade from them, even have market access.
These are all things Greyscale has tentatively proposed, and we have no idea if this is the direction they will go in or if another direction entirely has been developed. But this might possibly (slim chance I know) explain why there are only 4 NPC stations in Thera.
Just a thought, but I felt it was worth mentioning.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
|
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
159
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 01:45:37 -
[204] - Quote
Hmmm, I've had a think about the stations in Thera and I've come to the conclusion that they are red herrings. By that I mean the stations may be a distraction for the people who need to feel like they have achieved something by ensuring no one can dock/undock. Thera will have many wormholes leading into it, this is now fact and It would be easier for players to base themselves out of a K-space station and scan their way into Thera daily to do sites. if the gas/mining is that of a class 6 wormhole then it will be rewarding.
Who in their right mind would buy from a market where they probably couldn't dock anyway and prices would be high due to the high risk involved in getting it there. The better option would be to scan a wormhole to K-space and buy at a reasonable price. The cost of buying a 1mn mwd II will probably be 12 million plus the entire value of whatever ship you're flying.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6015
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 01:50:25 -
[205] - Quote
Aaron wrote:Hmmm, I've had a think about the stations in Thera and I've come to the conclusion that they are red herrings. By that I mean the stations may be a distraction for the people who need to feel like they have achieved something by ensuring no one can dock/undock. Thera will have many wormholes leading into it, this is now fact and It would be easier for players to base themselves out of a K-space station and scan their way into Thera daily to do sites. if the gas/mining is that of a class 6 wormhole then it will be rewarding.
Who in their right mind would buy from a market where they probably couldn't dock anyway and prices would be high due to the high risk involved in getting it there. The better option would be to scan a wormhole to K-space and buy at a reasonable price. The cost of buying a 1mn mwd II will probably be 12 million plus the entire value of whatever ship you're flying.
I tend to agree (at least with things as they currently are).
As it stands any new trade hubs are much more likely to spring up where ever the static wormholes reside in k space.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6015
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 01:51:13 -
[206] - Quote
Aaron wrote:Hmmm, I've had a think about the stations in Thera and I've come to the conclusion that they are red herrings. By that I mean the stations may be a distraction for the people who need to feel like they have achieved something by ensuring no one can dock/undock. Thera will have many wormholes leading into it, this is now fact and It would be easier for players to base themselves out of a K-space station and scan their way into Thera daily to do sites. if the gas/mining is that of a class 6 wormhole then it will be rewarding.
Who in their right mind would buy from a market where they probably couldn't dock anyway and prices would be high due to the high risk involved in getting it there. The better option would be to scan a wormhole to K-space and buy at a reasonable price. The cost of buying a 1mn mwd II will probably be 12 million plus the entire value of whatever ship you're flying.
I tend to agree (at least with things as they currently are).
As it stands any new trade hubs are much more likely to spring up where ever the static wormholes reside in k space, then using Thera as a handy route to other locations.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
|
Vyl Vit
874
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 08:11:34 -
[207] - Quote
So, has this Thera become the dream come true for those who invent as they go along? OR...we'll see, won't we?
Anyone with any sense has already left town.
|
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 08:16:01 -
[208] - Quote
A trade hub without trade is no trade hub. Without commerce there is no Jita. People go to Jita because its safe aside from wannabe scammers. A trade hub that does not allow traders to safely conduct trade makes no sense. Aside from the local scams. Why should people go there to get scammed? |
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
12
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 09:01:45 -
[209] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:
Indeed it will.
I have left thoughts in other threads as to why we keep fixating on only part of Fozzies statement that it will be like a "Jita without Concord".... IE we focus on the Jita reference, and tend to ignore the rest of the statement. Jita without Concord would actually not be a trade hub any longer, but merely a killzone of epic proportions until another hub evolved.
I won't go into that again, but something else occurred to me as I read your post. We all heard of the tentative plans to evolve POS's into something more than they are now... and we also know that they should be revamped relatively soon. The reason why I bring this up in relation to Thera is that some of the things discussed about the future of POS's might be relevant. That being:
Being able to place them anywhere, not just at moons. Being able to link multiple POS structures together, in effect form POS cities or outposts.Being able to trade from them, even have market access.
These are all things Greyscale has tentatively proposed, and we have no idea if this is the direction they will go in or if another direction entirely has been developed. But this might possibly (slim chance I know) explain why there are only 4 NPC stations in Thera.
Just a thought, but I felt it was worth mentioning.
OMG Droolage!! Make me a hamster / ewok city and I'm HAPPY! lol.
but seriosuly, that would be awesome, for me anyway!
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
|
Fizy45
TURKISH BROTHERS
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 09:50:08 -
[210] - Quote
Because that its brand new most of the capsuleers out there will want to have a look in it and some big alliences are aware of it.
So after few lucky entries some group folks will jump in and create a nightmare for many others who tries to enter and even if you can enter the place around the stations and other places will be mess.
So unless you are really experienced or lucky or with a big fleet going there in first days will be a suicide...
Also let me remind you that long warp times will be boring for many players too. |
|
Beta Maoye
51
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 11:25:45 -
[211] - Quote
Thera can't be another Jita. Thera will be a nice place for explorers looking for fortune or pirates looking for ships to blow up, but it is not a place for trade.
Most people wouldn't want to move haulers packed with valuable goods through a place full of thugs and bandits. It will be asking troubles for himself. Major trading hub that most people will trade their stuffs requires a safe and easily accessible environment to exist. Thera is not such a place. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
2143
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 12:41:45 -
[212] - Quote
Today there were 8 wormholes in Thera on Sisi:
2 leading to highsec 3 to lowsec 3 to nullsec
That could all change, obviously.
I wonder how we will find Thera on TQ? Until people start to actively use (open) those static connections, the only way in will be random ones, correct? I wonder how many of those will there be...
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6015
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 15:50:12 -
[213] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Today there were 8 wormholes in Thera on Sisi:
2 leading to highsec 3 to lowsec 3 to nullsec
That could all change, obviously.
I wonder how we will find Thera on TQ? Until people start to actively use (open) those static connections, the only way in will be random ones, correct? I wonder how many of those will there be... Those 8 were the statics correct? Do you remember what systems they were connected to? As you so rightly point out this could very likely change, but I'm still curious.
If that number and the exit points don't change, that would suggest that the emphasis would be on providing movement options for Null/Low sec entities to move with/against each other more so than for travel to and from high sec, which isn't exactly what I had expected. In particular only 2 high sec statics ensures heavy camping at those locations.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
|
Serene Repose
1640
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 16:07:34 -
[214] - Quote
I have a theory about a theory, hypothetically speaking that is.
I'm not sayin'. I'm just SAYIN'!
I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
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Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere Republic of the 5phere
871
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 16:29:37 -
[215] - Quote
I'm seriously considering selling my wormhole and moving there. I can see alot of opportunities for those willing to live in such a hive of scum and villainy. I also don't think it's beyond reason for a single entity to control the system, given enough players. With access to the entire galaxy, there would be significant benefits to anyone that manages to establish some sort of player-run order within Thera. Sure, they won't be able to stop anyone from entering the system, but they can certainly ensure that anyone not following their rules gets punished for violations.
Personally, I'm extremely excited.
Post with your main, like a BOSS!
And no, i don't live in highsec. -áAs if that would make your opinion any less wrong. -á
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
2143
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 19:26:49 -
[216] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Today there were 8 wormholes in Thera on Sisi:
2 leading to highsec 3 to lowsec 3 to nullsec
That could all change, obviously.
I wonder how we will find Thera on TQ? Until people start to actively use (open) those static connections, the only way in will be random ones, correct? I wonder how many of those will there be... Those 8 were the statics correct? Do you remember what systems they were connected to? As you so rightly point out this could very likely change, but I'm still curious. If that number and the exit points don't change, that would suggest that the emphasis would be on providing movement options for Null/Low sec entities to move with/against each other more so than for travel to and from high sec, which isn't exactly what I had expected. In particular only 2 high sec statics ensures heavy camping at those locations. I'm no wormhole expert, but I assume they were the statics.
None of them were K162 - obviously, whats the chance that someone opened a WH LEADING to Thera, within the past 1-2 days, on the test server???
I also didn't try to collapse them to see if they would respawn lol.
I just checked the 3 lowsec ones, they lead to lowsec systems in Heimatar, Metropolis, Kor-Azor.
I too would love dozens of statics, but maybe CCP wants to make them camp-able, with some effort. By the way, if you're equipped to survive in Thera, you should also be capable to take a couple of jumps in lowsec to get there...
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
Tsixlas
The Idiot Kings Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 21:14:53 -
[217] - Quote
Try to imagine the scenario:
You are a 0.0 player and a new wormhole gives you access to Thera where you can jump and buy stuff. Expensive probably but fast. What would you do? |
The Greenmachine Greenmachine
Green's Bicycle Shop
102
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 21:35:32 -
[218] - Quote
me. im curious how the effects from the wh will affect the players willingness to accept my great deals... |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6016
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 22:32:37 -
[219] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Today there were 8 wormholes in Thera on Sisi:
2 leading to highsec 3 to lowsec 3 to nullsec
That could all change, obviously.
I wonder how we will find Thera on TQ? Until people start to actively use (open) those static connections, the only way in will be random ones, correct? I wonder how many of those will there be... Those 8 were the statics correct? Do you remember what systems they were connected to? As you so rightly point out this could very likely change, but I'm still curious. If that number and the exit points don't change, that would suggest that the emphasis would be on providing movement options for Null/Low sec entities to move with/against each other more so than for travel to and from high sec, which isn't exactly what I had expected. In particular only 2 high sec statics ensures heavy camping at those locations. I'm no wormhole expert, but I assume they were the statics. None of them were K162 - obviously, whats the chance that someone opened a WH LEADING to Thera, within the past 1-2 days, on the test server??? I also didn't try to collapse them to see if they would respawn lol. I just checked the 3 lowsec ones, they lead to lowsec systems in Heimatar, Metropolis, Kor-Azor. I too would love dozens of statics, but maybe CCP wants to make them camp-able, with some effort. By the way, if you're equipped to survive in Thera, you should also be capable to take a couple of jumps in lowsec to get there... Agreed, and I'm sure many will. I am equally sure that many more won't if a high sec route is at hand.
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|
Nightingale Actault
Big Richard Club
44
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 23:55:52 -
[220] - Quote
Clarification regarding WH statics. A static HS connection (as an example) will always be a WH leading to HS, but after the mass or time of that WH has expired, a new WH of the same type will appear at a different place in the Thera system. Once scanned down and warped to the corresponding exit k162 will then appear in a different random HS system. Setting up a trade hub in the HS connection system is not feasible as the connection to Thera will only be available from 15 minutes up to the max lifetime of that WH type (normally 16-48 hours). |
|
Vapor Ventrillian
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 01:20:24 -
[221] - Quote
See what Im thinken is we get as many npc's together and claim it for Npc...you aint npc ...You Dead bruh!
For Thera!!
Crazy idea no 123
o7 Vapor
The Evil Overlord of Scope, self elected as all good overlords should be
|
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
159
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 02:17:19 -
[222] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Today there were 8 wormholes in Thera on Sisi:
2 leading to highsec 3 to lowsec 3 to nullsec
That could all change, obviously.
I wonder how we will find Thera on TQ? Until people start to actively use (open) those static connections, the only way in will be random ones, correct? I wonder how many of those will there be...
Did you check the entire system? Is it a possibility you could have missed some?
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
|
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
2152
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 08:15:42 -
[223] - Quote
Aaron wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Today there were 8 wormholes in Thera on Sisi:
2 leading to highsec 3 to lowsec 3 to nullsec
That could all change, obviously.
I wonder how we will find Thera on TQ? Until people start to actively use (open) those static connections, the only way in will be random ones, correct? I wonder how many of those will there be... Did you check the entire system? Is it a possibility you could have missed some? I checked the 8 signatures that appeared on the overlay/scanner.
I believe that with current mechanics, all signatures present in the system automatically show on your overlay/scanner.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
Humera Hekard
Hekard Industries Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 08:23:57 -
[224] - Quote
T-Space is going to be an interesting place. :) |
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die Retribution.
190
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 09:23:31 -
[225] - Quote
its a completely stupid idea... sorry.... |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
760
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 17:04:36 -
[226] - Quote
Aaron wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Today there were 8 wormholes in Thera on Sisi:
2 leading to highsec 3 to lowsec 3 to nullsec
That could all change, obviously.
I wonder how we will find Thera on TQ? Until people start to actively use (open) those static connections, the only way in will be random ones, correct? I wonder how many of those will there be... Did you check the entire system? Is it a possibility you could have missed some?
I've been scanning thera over the last week:
3 low-statics, 3 null-statics are in there, no doubt. 2 more Q063s are cruisersized holes that connect to anywhere in K-space, not necessarily though to Highsec.
2 wandering holes in highsec (one large, one frigsized) exist. 5 wandering holes in wormholes (F135) connecting to Thera exist.
Then in addition, there seems to be atleast one frigsized hole in null and one in low connecting to Thera.
People that say Thera got two highsec-statics are wrong. Thera doesn't have a highsec static. Just that one static might connect to highsec.
"I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
|
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
2161
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 20:06:08 -
[227] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Aaron wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Today there were 8 wormholes in Thera on Sisi:
2 leading to highsec 3 to lowsec 3 to nullsec
That could all change, obviously.
I wonder how we will find Thera on TQ? Until people start to actively use (open) those static connections, the only way in will be random ones, correct? I wonder how many of those will there be... Did you check the entire system? Is it a possibility you could have missed some? I've been scanning thera over the last week: 3 low-statics, 3 null-statics are in there, no doubt. 2 more Q063s are cruisersized holes that connect to anywhere in K-space, not necessarily though to Highsec. 2 wandering holes in highsec (one large, one frigsized) exist. 5 wandering holes in wormholes (F135) connecting to Thera exist. Then in addition, there seems to be atleast one frigsized hole in null and one in low connecting to Thera. People that say Thera got two highsec-statics are wrong. Thera doesn't have a highsec static. Just that one static might connect to highsec. Thanks, great info! If it stays this way on TQ, obviously...
I'm obviously clueless on wormholes lol...
Anyway, good to know about the 3 lowsec statics!
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
ZAKURELL0 LINDA
Black Scorpions Inc
57
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 03:22:55 -
[228] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Ka'Narlist wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?
Jita means a major trade hub where everyone and their mother brings their stuff to sell it. How do you think this will happen in a system where everyone is ganking everyone? A couple of reasons: 1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out. 2: It's connected to... literally... everywhere. Depending on how this is handled it could be the most convenient market hub in all of New Eden. imagine JITA 5-5 being hell bubbled...... no one can ever undock unless u have massive support fleet clearing the way out for da haulers................
RIP Iron Lady
|
Opertone
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
311
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 20:16:15 -
[229] - Quote
bombs, bring more bombs ! |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1585
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 03:55:13 -
[230] - Quote
I had a look at Thera on Singularity. It is hard to see how this will turn into another Jita. Sure, the stations will be stocked but the prices will be atrocious. The connections are:
Q063 This wormhole seems to lead into high security space. Up to medium sized ships can pass through this wormhole.
V898 This wormhole seems to lead into low security space. Larger ships can pass through this wormhole.
E587 This wormhole seems to lead into null security space. Very large ships can pass through this wormhole.
Only the null E587 allows freighters through. This means that if you want to properly stock Thera with hulls you have three options:
- Fly or jump your freighter to the null entry and come in through there.
- Import hulls in a smaller industrial one at a time (for cruisers) or just fly them in manually.
- Build them in Thera (which just removes the problem one level for material importation unless you are crazy enough to try and mine in this system).
This is disappointing. I was looking forward to the challenge of stocking this system but I think the risk is too high. I donGÇÖt understand why freighters would be excluded from low and highsec connections.
Does CCP think that the risk for freighters would be too low? It will be enormous regardless of where you jump in from. At least open up the lowsec connection please.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
|
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6047
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 05:07:08 -
[231] - Quote
ZAKURELL0 LINDA wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Ka'Narlist wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?
Jita means a major trade hub where everyone and their mother brings their stuff to sell it. How do you think this will happen in a system where everyone is ganking everyone? A couple of reasons: 1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out. 2: It's connected to... literally... everywhere. Depending on how this is handled it could be the most convenient market hub in all of New Eden. imagine JITA 5-5 being hell bubbled...... no one can ever undock unless u have massive support fleet clearing the way out for da haulers................ Your frame of reference is off. That quote was made before we knew how many stations would be in Thera.
It now looks like Thera may be more of a transport/combat hub than a trade hub, much as Fozzie stated it would be... as Jita would be without Concord.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
|
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
16
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 09:32:48 -
[232] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:ZAKURELL0 LINDA wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Ka'Narlist wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?
Jita means a major trade hub where everyone and their mother brings their stuff to sell it. How do you think this will happen in a system where everyone is ganking everyone? A couple of reasons: 1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out. 2: It's connected to... literally... everywhere. Depending on how this is handled it could be the most convenient market hub in all of New Eden. imagine JITA 5-5 being hell bubbled...... no one can ever undock unless u have massive support fleet clearing the way out for da haulers................ Your frame of reference is off. That quote was made before we knew how many stations would be in Thera. It now looks like Thera may be more of a transport/combat hub than a trade hub, much as Fozzie stated it would be... as Jita would be without Concord.
seriosuly? ... you think a couple more stations will make a difference to Alliances that field 1,000+ players? That live in systems with high populations ... entirely their own?
You think there is a difference between 1 and 4 stations?
20, maybe ... but not a handful. lol
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
|
Tarpedo
Incursionista
1411
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 10:01:19 -
[233] - Quote
I won't move to There. Boring scan mini-game is killing everything. |
Signal11th
1470
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 12:10:32 -
[234] - Quote
tiberiusric wrote:its a completely stupid idea... sorry....
Have to agree.
Powered by reaTh Filter V1.23 "All posts by this pilot are personal held views and not representitive of any corp or alliance I am currently a member of. Like I'd give a sh*t anyway.
God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and wo
|
Andreus Ixiris
Duty. Circle-Of-Two
5026
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 14:51:05 -
[235] - Quote
Leannor wrote:seriosuly? ... you think a couple more stations will make a difference to Alliances that field 1,000+ players? That live in systems with high populations ... entirely their own?
You think there is a difference between 1 and 4 stations?
20, maybe ... but not a handful. lol But the way the system is laid out, you'd need that alliance to dedicate most of its manpower to permacamping the four stations and all the wormholes and not to something like, say, holding conventional nullsec territory. What exact benefit are you then getting from camping Thera 24/7?
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
|
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
19
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 15:21:04 -
[236] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Leannor wrote:seriosuly? ... you think a couple more stations will make a difference to Alliances that field 1,000+ players? That live in systems with high populations ... entirely their own?
You think there is a difference between 1 and 4 stations?
20, maybe ... but not a handful. lol But the way the system is laid out, you'd need that alliance to dedicate most of its manpower to permacamping the four stations and all the wormholes and not to something like, say, holding conventional nullsec territory. What exact benefit are you then getting from camping Thera 24/7?
er ... if it's your base ... you'd not camp the enterances, granted ... but the stations, you would (and you only need to cover one of the two anyway to make it an unviable nuetral trade hub)... and ... why else does anyone blob a system in eve? ... to own it.. there's rarel;y any rationale reason besides that.
besides ... you don't need to perma'camp' it ... threat is enough. How many people don't undock if there's a single red in system? ... like I say ... not a viable nuetral trade hub. That's easy to happen for an allaince basing out of there. 100+ in system is all the camp you need, don't matter where they are, or cloaked, or docked, ... hub relies on traffic flow, and that just wouldn't happen to any industrialist. (import export wise) ...
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9093
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 15:22:05 -
[237] - Quote
The real truth is that no one knows what will happen with Thera, and speculating about it this much is rather stupid. |
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
19
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 15:53:11 -
[238] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The real truth is that no one knows what will happen with Thera, and speculating about it this much is rather stupid.
assessing what we know, isn't . That's all I'm doing :) Based on what they have said and their spoken intent.
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
|
Kaye Kaye
Mining and Trade
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 17:42:25 -
[239] - Quote
I am brand new, but can't see how this will be any type of trade hub. Seems like it will be NPC Null Sec without Local, with perma camped stations.
Pass. |
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
22
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 09:09:13 -
[240] - Quote
Kaye Kaye wrote:I am brand new, but can't see how this will be any type of trade hub. Seems like it will be NPC Null Sec without Local, with perma camped stations.
Pass... seems more like a place to have big PVP battles though.
This much is true. And why it is not a bad idea. I'm not against this idea in anyway, all for new space and new toys. All I challenge at the moment is that it's said it will be a trade hub. If it is destined to be a trade hub, maybe the comments of logic will help it actually become a trade hub. Firstly, a tonne more stations (think Ammamake? that lo-sec system in minnie space with like 30,000 stations), 'and' some kind of station fighting nerf (be it guns, or range, or timer guns, or something) and some bonus to the WH's - maybe ... that cloakble ships don't need to de-cloak after jumping into system? That together with station guns, no bubbles, and access from across eve directly, would create a trade hub.
Of course ... I'll admit one thing actually. Trade hub. Funny. That doesn't actually specifiy 'what' is being traded .... one just assumes it's 'everything'. Could just be the control choke point of trdaing a certain sleeper or Jove technololgy. In which case, that is a very BIG reason why alliances will want to dominate it. Anyway ... what's the point of living if you can't specualte and gossip and imagine. Life would be very dull ... and no one would have said "Crazy idea guys, what about getting loads of people to pay for a game where they fly around in ships and blow each other up ..."
(yeah, that's been said better too ... the whole "EVE, the experiment where people pay to have a job" )
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
|
|
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1401
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 09:48:20 -
[241] - Quote
Zappity wrote:I had a look at Thera on Singularity. It is hard to see how this will turn into another Jita. Sure, the stations will be stocked but the prices will be atrocious. The connections are: Q063This wormhole seems to lead into high security space. Up to medium sized ships can pass through this wormhole. V898This wormhole seems to lead into low security space. Larger ships can pass through this wormhole. E587This wormhole seems to lead into null security space. Very large ships can pass through this wormhole. Only the null E587 allows freighters through. This means that if you want to properly stock Thera with hulls you have three options:
- Fly or jump your freighter to the null entry and come in through there.
- Import hulls in a smaller industrial one at a time (for cruisers) or just fly them in manually.
- Build them in Thera (which just removes the problem one level for material importation unless you are crazy enough to try and mine in this system).
This is disappointing. I was looking forward to the challenge of stocking this system but I think the risk is too high. I donGÇÖt understand why freighters would be excluded from low and highsec connections. Does CCP think that the risk for freighters would be too low? It will be enormous regardless of where you jump in from. At least open up the lowsec connection please.
I notice that there may also be the strong possibility that there'll be a significant number of wandering or roaming connections. these will not reopening from Kspace due to the low numbers of people on SISI. Fozzie also mentioned initially opening holes so that some or all appeared on the test server opening into Thera, Naturally he will not be doing this 24/7 while it is on test, so the numbers are likely to be considerably higher than we are seeing.
Moving forward, we do not know what they have planned for later, why it is expected to become a major trade hub, But there are some Very clear pointers that indicate where this is going........ Interesting times ahead.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
159
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 12:02:49 -
[242] - Quote
If a 1000+ man alliance can get in there and secure it then I guess they can make it into whatever they want.
They could keep it for themselves and have 100s of guys camping stations in order to secure their corp/alliance docking only or they could do what I tried to do and create a trade hub/community using the standing setting to allow traders and customers to operate there. A trade hub is still a possibility, one which I think can make trillions if its done correctly.
Most eve players don't see the benefit of setting others blue for the benefit of trade or creating a community, when I tried this I was trolled, ridiculed and insulted. Now I see that he who has the biggest guns makes the rules, its really as simple as that.
I think CCP knows what they're doing, they've prompted us to take certain actions. They've created an area of space where only team work on a massive scale will allow you to make lots of isk.
The very nature of eve is "I killed you" CCP even make songs about this fact. Why can't it be "I helped you" ?
If there was a trustworthy corp/alliance controlling and blue'ing traders and customers I for one would set up there and be happy to contribute isk to whoever is controlling Thera. Does such an honourable entity exist? No.
Either way, I am keen to see what happens in Thera.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
|
Magnasis Drakkenwolf
9
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 06:57:01 -
[243] - Quote
I expect to get blown up a lot there...
There can be only one..
http://www.youtube.com/user/KensCrazyGaming
|
Persifonne
Monkey Demons Of Narnia
43
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 07:05:46 -
[244] - Quote
They just introduced new dictor scripts and bubbles right? Someone should start selling those mods cuz gonna be like 2000 up on the 4 stations and wh exits all the time.
Also lol@ccp for making like 1 wandering hisec exit lol. Great way to get players in that hole........ SIKE! |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
327
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 18:54:47 -
[245] - Quote
Ka'Narlist wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?
Jita means a major trade hub where everyone and their mother brings their stuff to sell it. How do you think this will happen in a system where everyone is ganking everyone?
Which means less selection, less volume, and higher prices.
PvP Gank zone it will be for sure.
A robust market for all wares it will not.
|
Attivol
27
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 21:21:49 -
[246] - Quote
Sounds like Thera is all set to become the ******* of the EvE universe. |
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
22
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 13:33:57 -
[247] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Ka'Narlist wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?
Jita means a major trade hub where everyone and their mother brings their stuff to sell it. How do you think this will happen in a system where everyone is ganking everyone? Which means less selection, less volume, and higher prices. PvP Gank zone it will be for sure. A robust market for all wares it will not. maybe, you've got the supply bit right, (less supply can lead to higher prices - scarcity) but ... you're fogetting the other half that is required, demand. If demand is not there prices will fall.
Jita exists because so many people can trade in safety, both sides. It's also why it's a buyers market usually, not a sellers market. Demand often drives prices a little lower than most other places, but this can be maintained because there's such a volume of traffic that prices are constantly correcting.
If people aren't able to supply the market, and the people buying aren't able to buy safely, then, both supply and demand do not exist, and that means all it does it match every other 0.0 system and many lo-sec systems. Where there is usually the absence of a market.
I'm looking forward to seeing what specific conditions CCp are going to provide to 'enable' this to become a trade hub (and it will be a time before it happens), or what very specific attributes the system will have to make it worth while fighting over (location isn't 'everything').
Ore and Minerals have their Hi-sec low value and 0.0 High Value. Moons have their Lo-Sec low value and 0.0 High Value. PI has the HIgh Sec low volume and 0.0 HIgh Volume. Market has HIgh Sec Boom and 0.0 Void.
Would be great if we can turn around the last one ...
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
|
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
164
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 00:33:09 -
[248] - Quote
Leannor wrote:I'm looking forward to seeing what specific conditions CCp are going to provide to 'enable' this to become a trade hub (and it will be a time before it happens), or what very specific attributes the system will have to make it worth while fighting over (location isn't 'everything'). Ore and Minerals have their Hi-sec low value and 0.0 High Value. Moons have their Lo-Sec low value and 0.0 High Value. PI has the HIgh Sec low volume and 0.0 HIgh Volume. Market has HIgh Sec Boom and 0.0 Void. Would be great if we can turn around the last one ...
Why has CCP got to provide something to 'enable' Thera to become a trade hub? In my opinion CCP has given us more than enough so that we the players can turn it into a trade hub. CCP has given us a blank canvas and some paint where we can draw whatever virtual reality we the players want.
I have tried projects involving the eve community and populating an NPC region of space called Stain. The projects have ceased and on all of the attempts I felt we only scratched the surface of what NPC 0.0 has to offer. I felt the projects failed because I got involved with people who did not have a keen interest in creating an economy in Stain. Lots of people found it difficult to adapt to the harsh conditions in Stain.
I think if Thera is to become a trade hub then we the players will have to use whatever means available to us to make this happen. Based on the facts we know so far I believe It will require a blue coalition to defend the stations dock and isk grinders if this is achieved the economy will be extended to Thera. I don't think any alliance would be prepared to share Thera with anyone else if they are in a position to lock it down, they are more likely to keep it all for themselves.
I might be able to find the time to create a corp/alliance that will be commissioned by it's blues to defend Thera in order for a trade hub to grow. There would be a fee charged for blue standing, the isk generated will be used to equip well trained pilots to provide escorts and station dock clearance services to the people of Thera. Anyone choosing to finance such a corp will be investing in Thera to make it safer place to dwell in.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
|
Malcolm Faust
Soldiers of Cthulhu
11
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 01:55:48 -
[249] - Quote
-I believe it's going to be >350 au across, that's twice as big as the largest system I've ever flown through (around 130au).
-It's going to be Lore heavy, lots of storyline role play stuff for those that are into it. And for the record, RP is what keeps expanding the game like this. Want more? Get deeper into the game and understand what going on and why.
-Expect lots of T3 cloaky cruisers (and other ships) that are immune to non targeted interdiction.
-Don't bother docking, because undocking would just about be suicide for anyone who isn't well versed in undocking mechanics.
-There will be a lot of unsolicited fights, but I don't think there will be a controlling faction because there isn't enough isk to be made from controlling Thera. I think there is some Ice mining and DED sites, no POS though.
-You can shoot anyone you want, all the time. But that's no different from low/null/wh space anyway. So we're back to EVE Lore. |
Doramina
Elite Firebird Investments
1
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 02:08:19 -
[250] - Quote
If there's multiple random connections into Thera. It won't be like shooting into a fish bowl gate camps. |
|
W3370Pi4
Comel Technology
126
|
Posted - 2014.12.06 11:47:45 -
[251] - Quote
In light of the impending Rhea release
Please join the "Thera Public Intel" channel
GåÆGÿà Join the "Thera Public Intel" Channel -GåÉGÿà
|
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1640
|
Posted - 2014.12.10 09:27:07 -
[252] - Quote
Thera is great. I have my characters installed in the system now. My experience with the forecast "lock down" consisted on a Vexor Navy and a Crow on an entry half a dozen jumps from Amarr. No trouble at all.
Lots of ships on the undocks but I didn't see a single bubble in system today.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
|
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
489
|
Posted - 2014.12.10 09:39:15 -
[253] - Quote
Leannor wrote:
I'm looking forward to seeing what specific conditions CCp are going to provide to 'enable' this to become a trade hub (and it will be a time before it happens), or what very specific attributes the system will have to make it worth while fighting over (location isn't 'everything').
Why would CCP do that? Don't you remember what Seagul said? They wanted less predictable outcomes. Thera itself defies this idea with limited mechanics however I don't want to lose faith quite yet and call them hypocrits within just a few months of that "less predicable outcomes" statement.
|
Fu Qjoo
Pangalactic Frontline Supply Agency
24
|
Posted - 2014.12.10 11:02:24 -
[254] - Quote
Thera is a perfect intermediary hub for certain goods if you plan ahead, It will be Jita->RI-JB1 in 5 or even less jumps if you just wait long enough. Consider it as a logistic distribution warehouse.
And yes you can theoretically permacamp it if you have enough dedicated people that are consistently scanning and camping 15 wormholes 24/7. Although there might be some insane players in this universe, I doubt any alliance will be able to do this for a longer time period (and why should they).
Even to bring a freighter in and out is not a big issue atm for a small gang (this might or might not get harder over time). |
Fu Qjoo
Pangalactic Frontline Supply Agency
24
|
Posted - 2014.12.10 11:21:45 -
[255] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Zappity wrote:I had a look at Thera on Singularity. It is hard to see how this will turn into another Jita. Sure, the stations will be stocked but the prices will be atrocious. The connections are: Q063This wormhole seems to lead into high security space. Up to medium sized ships can pass through this wormhole. V898This wormhole seems to lead into low security space. Larger ships can pass through this wormhole. E587This wormhole seems to lead into null security space. Very large ships can pass through this wormhole. Only the null E587 allows freighters through. This means that if you want to properly stock Thera with hulls you have three options:
- Fly or jump your freighter to the null entry and come in through there.
- Import hulls in a smaller industrial one at a time (for cruisers) or just fly them in manually.
- Build them in Thera (which just removes the problem one level for material importation unless you are crazy enough to try and mine in this system).
This is disappointing. I was looking forward to the challenge of stocking this system but I think the risk is too high. I donGÇÖt understand why freighters would be excluded from low and highsec connections. Does CCP think that the risk for freighters would be too low? It will be enormous regardless of where you jump in from. At least open up the lowsec connection please. I notice that there may also be the strong possibility that there'll be a significant number of wandering or roaming connections. these will not reopening from Kspace due to the low numbers of people on SISI. Fozzie also mentioned initially opening holes so that some or all appeared on the test server opening into Thera, Naturally he will not be doing this 24/7 while it is on test, so the numbers are likely to be considerably higher than we are seeing. Moving forward, we do not know what they have planned for later, why it is expected to become a major trade hub, But there are some Very clear pointers that indicate where this is going........ Interesting times ahead.
Currently all of the wormholes were
- HS<->Thera: small
- LS <->Thera medium
- W-space<->Thera medium
- 0.0<->Thera very large
Which is good, as otherwise every carebear and his mom would be able to flood the market. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1640
|
Posted - 2014.12.10 11:24:06 -
[256] - Quote
Yes, I think it will be fine. Certainly won't reach anywhere like Jita scale but it doesn't need to.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
|
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
30
|
Posted - 2014.12.10 13:14:18 -
[257] - Quote
Aaron wrote:Leannor wrote:I'm looking forward to seeing what specific conditions CCp are going to provide to 'enable' this to become a trade hub (and it will be a time before it happens), or what very specific attributes the system will have to make it worth while fighting over (location isn't 'everything'). Ore and Minerals have their Hi-sec low value and 0.0 High Value. Moons have their Lo-Sec low value and 0.0 High Value. PI has the HIgh Sec low volume and 0.0 HIgh Volume. Market has HIgh Sec Boom and 0.0 Void. Would be great if we can turn around the last one ... Why has CCP got to provide something to 'enable' Thera to become a trade hub? In my opinion CCP has given us more than enough so that we the players can turn it into a trade hub. CCP has given us a blank canvas and some paint where we can draw whatever virtual reality we the players want. I have tried projects involving the eve community and populating an NPC region of space called Stain. The projects have ceased and on all of the attempts I felt we only scratched the surface of what NPC 0.0 has to offer. I felt the projects failed because I got involved with people who did not have a keen interest in creating an economy in Stain. Lots of people found it difficult to adapt to the harsh conditions in Stain. I think if Thera is to become a trade hub then we the players will have to use whatever means available to us to make this happen. Based on the facts we know so far I believe It will require a blue coalition to defend the stations dock and isk grinders if this is achieved the economy will be extended to Thera. I don't think any alliance would be prepared to share Thera with anyone else if they are in a position to lock it down, they are more likely to keep it all for themselves. I might be able to find the time to create a corp/alliance that will be commissioned by it's blues to defend Thera in order for a trade hub to grow. There would be a fee charged for blue standing, the isk generated will be used to equip well trained pilots to provide escorts and station dock clearance services to the people of Thera. Anyone choosing to finance such a corp will be investing in Thera to make it a safer place to dwell in.
Why to enable? Well, because if they don't, as explained previosuly, there is no reason at all for this system to emerge as a trade hub, which was their expressed desire. Personally, I don't mind either way if it's a trade hub or not (more systems is always a great thing, not matter what's in them), just, at current setup, it will need something else (sandbox wise) to enable it to emerge as a valid trade hub.
Projects based around 'goodness' and self protection, have never succeeded outside of empire. ISS tried ... and failed. Even lo-sec 'vigilante' style protectionsim systems usually fail. Primarily because bad guys (those who want to PVP) are better and more determined at it than those who want to protect people 'from' PVP. And also, generally, the PVPers are generally more ballsy and passionate about doing PVP, and those anit PVP are generally more apathetic - otherwise they'd be the PVPers themselves. THose that are good at PVP and ballssy enough to try and police an area are like gold dust. :)
And if you're saying "but we're just going to get a group of people who are blue to each other and defend it" ... then, my friend, that is pretty much the definition of every Alliance (aka PVP) in EVE.
Yes, a trade hub is purely down to us. But, if we don't have a reason for it to be a worthwhile hub, then as it stands right now, it has little chance of becoming a trade hub, if people can't trade there in some kind of security.
(There is a reason why 5th Ave isn't based in Harlem - get the parallel?). Bring on Thera though. It's a system full of intruge. (And I'm sure the fact that it's twice as big across will have very little impact on much at all to be honest. I'm still very much to be convinced on how that will have any significant meaningful effect on security or trade).
Again, nothing I'm saying here is saying that thera is a bad idea ... don't get me wrong. :)
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
|
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
5463
|
Posted - 2014.12.10 14:32:23 -
[258] - Quote
Well, kept my promise. 100,500 units of compressed Veldspar are now on the market in Thera. This should allow some industry to start up.
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
|
Bed Bugg
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 21:36:58 -
[259] - Quote
Have heard almost nothing about Thera in a while.
How is the market out there?
Anyone with an update? |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6307
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 23:11:54 -
[260] - Quote
So how are things going in dictor-bubble death camp land? I found a hole to Thera once but I didn't feel like changing over to a rookie ship to feed to the sharks.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3790
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 23:19:51 -
[261] - Quote
Bed Bugg wrote:Have heard almost nothing about Thera in a while.
How is the market out there?
Anyone with an update?
You have heard almost nothing about it because almost nothing is going on there. That's your update.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
|
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
299
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 00:51:08 -
[262] - Quote
Allowing bubbles in Thera was a mistake.
Hell, imo, bubbles in general are a mistake. Risk>>>>>Reward |
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
293
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 01:09:34 -
[263] - Quote
Ravasta Helugo wrote:Allowing bubbles in Thera was a mistake.
Hell, imo, bubbles in general are a mistake. Risk>>>>>Reward
Can you imagine if the Empire had used bubbles agains the Millenium Falcon? Very short movie. |
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
931
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 01:27:44 -
[264] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:Ravasta Helugo wrote:Allowing bubbles in Thera was a mistake.
Hell, imo, bubbles in general are a mistake. Risk>>>>>Reward Can you imagine if the Empire had used bubbles agains the Millenium Falcon? Very short movie.
If you read the Star Wars novels, the Empire had bubbles and used them quite often on main characters. Led to many entertaining moments.
Vote Sabriz!
|
Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries Fortis Et Certus
178
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 01:31:11 -
[265] - Quote
Been there... for me it was like a nullsec system With stations.... ergo dull |
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
738
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 01:57:29 -
[266] - Quote
Bed Bugg wrote:Have heard almost nothing about Thera in a while.
How is the market out there?
Anyone with an update?
How is the market?
Update? |
Hal Morsh
Aliastra Gallente Federation
264
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 02:18:04 -
[267] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:Ravasta Helugo wrote:Allowing bubbles in Thera was a mistake.
Hell, imo, bubbles in general are a mistake. Risk>>>>>Reward Can you imagine if the Empire had used bubbles agains the Millenium Falcon? Very short movie. If you read the Star Wars novels, the Empire had bubbles and used them quite often on main characters. Led to many entertaining moments.
I played a starwars RTS that had interdictors, when one was on map you couldn't retreat from the battle, you couldn't warp any ships in on it (had to be at range) and it also had something that could be turned on and off, which caused missles to fly out of control.
I honestly think warp bubbles could be catagorized. One that pulls you out of warp and causes a small timer (cooldown? stabilize warp core?) before you can warp again, then one that doesn't pull you out of warp but instead prevents warp off in a radius and cannot be placed on top of each other.
CCP - Outpost code is scary.
|
malcovas Henderson
THoF
347
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 03:22:57 -
[268] - Quote
blah. useless post by me :) |
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
770
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 08:07:45 -
[269] - Quote
Ravasta Helugo wrote:Allowing bubbles in Thera was a mistake.
Hell, imo, bubbles in general are a mistake. Risk>>>>>Reward
I've said many times before, bubbles are awesome. They are pretty much the only way players can influence the battlefield. I think CCP has gone the right way with deployables, but that there is so much further they can go. If I had my way, there would be many and varied types of bubbles (imagine the wormhole effects but in deployable bubble-sizes, imagine webbing bubbles, target painting bubbles, cap draining bubbles, the skys the limit).
|
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
36
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 09:01:13 -
[270] - Quote
Why would I want to do a stupid thing like that, y'all? |
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2782
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 10:24:20 -
[271] - Quote
Hal Morsh wrote:Ned Thomas wrote:Harrison Tato wrote: Can you imagine if the Empire had used bubbles agains the Millenium Falcon? Very short movie.
If you read the Star Wars novels, the Empire had bubbles and used them quite often on main characters. Led to many entertaining moments. I played a starwars RTS that had interdictors, when one was on map you couldn't retreat from the battle, you couldn't warp any ships in on it (had to be at range) and it also had something that could be turned on and off, which caused missles to fly out of control. I honestly think warp bubbles could be catagorized. One that pulls you out of warp and causes a small timer (cooldown? stabilize warp core?) before you can warp again, then one that doesn't pull you out of warp but instead prevents warp off in a radius and cannot be placed on top of each other. Star Wars: Empire at War (Gold)
It's actually an amazing RTS game, at least the space portion. It's on Steam, and was recently part of a Star Wars Humble Bundle.
And yeah, both sides had gravity well technology.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6311
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Posted - 2015.02.25 17:58:36 -
[272] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:Ravasta Helugo wrote:Allowing bubbles in Thera was a mistake.
Hell, imo, bubbles in general are a mistake. Risk>>>>>Reward Can you imagine if the Empire had used bubbles agains the Millenium Falcon? Very short movie.
Gravity wells.
It's not the bubbles, it's the gates. Nobody is complaining about their use in the battlefield. It's the bubbles all over and around the gates. If the Falcon had to go through gates and plus the gravity wells and plus numerous pilots killing everything that moved for no reason (or maybe for backstory, some esoteric religion called "MuhStats") , there would not have even been a movie. Heck all systems not under constant patrol by Star Destroyers would be empty save for a few pilots each system who would immediately dock up if they saw another pilot they didn't know. There would be no story at all. Just a lot of meh in space.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
934
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Posted - 2015.02.25 18:06:06 -
[273] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:.....no story at all. Just a lot of meh in space.
So CCP will be unveiling that as the new slogan for Eve at fanfest?
Don't get lost alone
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ACESsiggy
University of Caille
30
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Posted - 2015.02.25 22:00:05 -
[274] - Quote
Seems interesting. However I'm sure those static entrances to this location will be camped unless they remove the gate on the other side allowing players to randomly populate within Therra. Also just like Jita there's usually one station that primarily deals with trading so adding 20+ extra stations within Therra wouldn't help unless the items are accessible at any station?
GÇ£The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.GÇ¥
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Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
937
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Posted - 2015.02.26 00:42:05 -
[275] - Quote
ACESsiggy wrote:Seems interesting. However I'm sure those static entrances to this location will be camped unless they remove the gate on the other side allowing players to randomly populate within Therra. Also just like Jita there's usually one station that primarily deals with trading so adding 20+ extra stations within Therra wouldn't help unless the items are accessible at any station?
Just checking on Eve Scout, it looks like there are currently 25 connections into Thera. The few days I was there, the only connections that were reliably camped were high sec entrances, especially if it was near a trade hub. Null sec entrances were maybe camped if it led to active space. Lowsec and j-space connections were generally ignored. It's been awhile since I've been there (need to go back), but I can't imagine that behavior has changed much.
Can't speak on the market. It was in it's infancy when I was there. I seem to remember there being things for sale in all four stations though.
Don't get lost alone
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Aaril
Aideron Robotics
5
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Posted - 2015.02.26 01:17:45 -
[276] - Quote
It would be interesting to see what happened if they did remove bubbles. Currently it is too easy to lock down the system and people don't seem to be taking the risk.
I, for one, think that the concept of Thera is amazing. A lawless hub that is connected to places all over New Eden. I do not enjoy station games, though, and it seems many other people do not either. Therefore, at this time, I cannot justify basing out of Thera. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
979
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Posted - 2015.02.26 03:22:13 -
[277] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:Just checking on Eve Scout, it looks like there are currently 25 connections into Thera. The few days I was there, ... Why did you not feel compelled to make it your home?
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
122
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Posted - 2015.02.26 09:28:22 -
[278] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:Ravasta Helugo wrote:Allowing bubbles in Thera was a mistake.
Hell, imo, bubbles in general are a mistake. Risk>>>>>Reward Can you imagine if the Empire had used bubbles agains the Millenium Falcon? Very short movie. Gravity wells. It's not the bubbles, it's the gates. Nobody is complaining about their use in the battlefield. It's the bubbles all over and around the gates. If the Falcon had to go through gates and plus the gravity wells and plus numerous pilots killing everything that moved for no reason (or maybe for backstory, some esoteric religion called "MuhStats") , there would not have even been a movie. Heck all systems not under constant patrol by Star Destroyers would be empty save for a few pilots each system who would immediately dock up if they saw another pilot they didn't know. There would be no story at all. Just a lot of meh in space.
personally I think bubbles are rthe worst invention in EVE to date. Dictors, unsure. YOu have frigates for warp jamming, use them, and encourage variety in fleet.
Hey ho.
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30608
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Posted - 2015.02.26 10:02:45 -
[279] - Quote
Thera.
hahahha I love that joke.
Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3797
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Posted - 2015.02.26 14:18:58 -
[280] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Thera.
hahahha I love that joke.
CCP didn't got it even as it was their joke...
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
63
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Posted - 2015.02.26 14:26:07 -
[281] - Quote
I mean, Have I misread what it is?
Its a hub, but in a WH or Null system, and you go in if you want to be killed, right? |
Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
940
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Posted - 2015.02.26 16:38:06 -
[282] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Ned Thomas wrote:Just checking on Eve Scout, it looks like there are currently 25 connections into Thera. The few days I was there, ... Why did you not feel compelled to make it your home?
Actually I just joined a Thera based corp and will probably be in and out of there more frequently than anywhere else for the foreseeable future. I probably should start calling it home.
Don't get lost alone
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
107
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Posted - 2015.02.26 17:14:49 -
[283] - Quote
Thera: heaven for station gamers. Why would I want to live there?
They should put a no-weapons buffer of 300k or so around the stations. Would make that system interesting. |
Seifer Al'Masy
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
21
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Posted - 2015.02.26 17:24:59 -
[284] - Quote
Thera is good to "live" in. If you want to roam and explore all of Eve. Try docking as less as possible (I learned that the hard way, yesterday.....)
It's a huge system, find yourself a couple of safe spots, and you should be fine |
Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
940
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Posted - 2015.02.26 17:28:03 -
[285] - Quote
Seifer Al'Masy wrote:Thera is good to "live" in. If you want to roam and explore all of Eve. Try docking as less as possible (I learned that the hard way, yesterday.....) It's a huge system, find yourself a couple of safe spots, and you should be fine
Was going to ask how that happened
Don't get lost alone
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Seifer Al'Masy
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
23
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Posted - 2015.02.26 17:37:09 -
[286] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:Seifer Al'Masy wrote:Thera is good to "live" in. If you want to roam and explore all of Eve. Try docking as less as possible (I learned that the hard way, yesterday.....) It's a huge system, find yourself a couple of safe spots, and you should be fine Was going to ask how that happened
Turns out that Corp Instawarp BMs are compromised...... go figure... I warped to one of the BMs, and than, instead of warping to one of my SafeSpots right way, my Eve IQ levels weren't at it's best, and I stood there for 20secs....
... a Stileto lands 4km off me, and I though "Oh, look, a corp member warped to the same BM as me......Wait.., why is the Stileto showing on my overview....."
I got decloaked and I though "Oh well, one less Tengu...... "
So yeah, stay in space, my friend.... stay in space..... |
Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
941
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Posted - 2015.02.26 17:42:21 -
[287] - Quote
Note to self: don't hang around corp bookmarks too close or too long
Don't get lost alone
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
774
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Posted - 2015.02.26 19:38:46 -
[288] - Quote
Aaril wrote:It would be interesting to see what happened if they did remove bubbles.
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:They should put a no-weapons buffer of 300k or so around the stations. Would make that system interesting.
I am forever perplexed with some peoples definition of "interesting". To me, removing the ability for conflict brings up terms more like "tedious" and "boring", rather than "interesting". Thera is more than interesting enough, removing peoples guns is not going to make it more exciting, unless in truth, that isn't what you want, you just want the bad people to not be allowed to hurt you. How about you go out and impose your will on space, rather than waiting for CCP to bubble (heh) wrap the game for you.
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Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
305
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Posted - 2015.02.26 21:22:53 -
[289] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Aaril wrote:It would be interesting to see what happened if they did remove bubbles. Demerius Xenocratus wrote:They should put a no-weapons buffer of 300k or so around the stations. Would make that system interesting. I am forever perplexed with some peoples definition of "interesting". To me, removing the ability for conflict brings up terms more like "tedious" and "boring", rather than "interesting". Thera is more than interesting enough, removing peoples guns is not going to make it more exciting, unless in truth, that isn't what you want, you just want the bad people to not be allowed to hurt you. How about you go out and impose your will on space, rather than waiting for CCP to bubble (heh) wrap the game for you. This isn't about making the game safe. It's about making it safe enough that trade is even possible.
Right now, it isn't. Activity is limited to ganking people stupid enough to be curious. |
The Newface
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2015.02.26 22:35:14 -
[290] - Quote
There is 0 reasons for me to move any character there. |
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Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
534
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Posted - 2015.02.26 22:58:11 -
[291] - Quote
I moved to Thera, but a Goonwaffle moved in next door to me and the property value shot down to 0.
Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
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Bed Bugg
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2015.03.04 05:05:53 -
[292] - Quote
Bed Bugg wrote:The viability of this as any sort of trade hub will not just be the ability to get into it. Probably the bigger concern will be the ability to undock. Undock mechanics will really be a big key. Poor mechanics will make it "Hotel California". You can check in anytime you like, but you can never leave Anyone have any updates on New Rancer from the test server?
Thanks you all for the updates.
Sadly, several folks sort of predicted the way this would end up going. A lot of flash, and then a fizzle.
Perhaps they should put that old veterans home that they promised out there.... Seems apropos somehow.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6336
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Posted - 2015.03.04 06:04:18 -
[293] - Quote
What did I say?
We have old sayings in Eve. We need a new one:
If it can be death camped, it will be.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Ciel993
Vision Partners End of Natural Lifetime
2
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Posted - 2015.03.04 06:19:20 -
[294] - Quote
If CCP really wants Thera to be anywhere near populated (by populated I mean filled with ppl form all over new eden so trade prospers things go on, not inhabited by one or two big alliances who have the manpower to not being squashed once undock), I think they should put a DMZ or concord SOE equivalent or something 1000km around the station. Once inside this area, it would be like a 0.5 highsec system, but once out it would become lawless like 0.0 and where all the fun activities(anom, ices, etc) are located. This would allow more people to move in since the barrier of entrance got lowered.
I mean, Thera is supposed to be a unique big system, it should offers more than just 5min boring warp time enough to make an instant noodle and D-scan spam being less useful, right? How about a huge 0.0 without local, yet everyone can access and can find the thrill of living in a lawless zone? |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Intrepid Crossing
1641
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Posted - 2015.03.04 07:18:07 -
[295] - Quote
Thera will never be a trade hub, or any kind of hub other than a transit hub, once initial interest wears off. Eventually, it'll just be a wh system that people pass through to get somewhere else, after scouting both holes for bubbles, and stations will be largely abandoned.
Given the nature of Eve's player base (98% male, 100% adolescent/mentally adolescent), it'll never work. Most of the time, undock has drag bubbles in line of it, so you can't even use insta undock bms. If people can't get stuff in or out, it can't be a trade hub. |
Crest Zah Donartal
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2015.03.04 08:31:24 -
[296] - Quote
Thera is just a free kill zone more. It is ridiculous to talk about "trade Hub".
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Tung Yoggi
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
68
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Posted - 2015.03.04 09:58:01 -
[297] - Quote
Thera's market is surprisingly well stocked, to meet the local demand as well as serving as a quick pitstop for travellers.
There is definitely money to be made for traders in Thera. |
God's Apples
Genos Occidere Warlords of the Deep
566
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Posted - 2015.03.04 11:03:51 -
[298] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Thera will never be a trade hub, or any kind of hub other than a transit hub, once initial interest wears off. Eventually, it'll just be a wh system that people pass through to get somewhere else, after scouting both holes for bubbles, and stations will be largely abandoned.
Given the nature of Eve's player base (98% male, 100% adolescent/mentally adolescent), it'll never work. Most of the time, undock has drag bubbles in line of it, so you can't even use insta undock bms. If people can't get stuff in or out, it can't be a trade hub.
You know you can't anchor bubbles in thera right...
"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX
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Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1008
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Posted - 2015.03.04 13:01:58 -
[299] - Quote
So after about a week, Thera is certainly the most interesting place I've lived so far. And as much as everyone swears the market is barren, it's surprisingly easy to get what you need, either in system or through one of the connections. And yes, there's always a fight going somewhere, but it's by no means a guaranteed death trap.
Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers!
Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
212
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Posted - 2015.03.04 14:19:07 -
[300] - Quote
Ravasta Helugo wrote:Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Aaril wrote:It would be interesting to see what happened if they did remove bubbles. Demerius Xenocratus wrote:They should put a no-weapons buffer of 300k or so around the stations. Would make that system interesting. I am forever perplexed with some peoples definition of "interesting". To me, removing the ability for conflict brings up terms more like "tedious" and "boring", rather than "interesting". Thera is more than interesting enough, removing peoples guns is not going to make it more exciting, unless in truth, that isn't what you want, you just want the bad people to not be allowed to hurt you. How about you go out and impose your will on space, rather than waiting for CCP to bubble (heh) wrap the game for you. This isn't about making the game safe. It's about making it safe enough that trade is even possible. Right now, it isn't. Activity is limited to ganking people stupid enough to be curious.
This is true, the only real trade for anything outside of highsec is 1. the people that have the system under lock down that do their own "trading" to corp/alliance members or 2. the few people that get lucky to dock/undock with out being instalocked/popped off the face of the galaxy. (I ran a courier job for a friend that pull stuff out of low sec in a viator and everytime I docked or undocked (I bm'd both warp in and instawarp out)I was instalocked by a tornado the second I undocked or docking permission was requested. the only thing that saved me from the shots fired was the permission being granted in or the fact I was already engaged in warp out)
CCP thinks that players will allow other players not part of their groups to come out and set up markets outside of empire, when the truth is everyone is to worried about getting a kill for their KB's rather than spreading the economy. If it was encouraged id be doing trading all the time, even incursion FCs have shot down traders that would usually trade under their high prices but selling just higher than jita.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
115
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Posted - 2015.03.04 23:58:28 -
[301] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Aaril wrote:It would be interesting to see what happened if they did remove bubbles. Demerius Xenocratus wrote:They should put a no-weapons buffer of 300k or so around the stations. Would make that system interesting. I am forever perplexed with some peoples definition of "interesting". To me, removing the ability for conflict brings up terms more like "tedious" and "boring", rather than "interesting". Thera is more than interesting enough, removing peoples guns is not going to make it more exciting, unless in truth, that isn't what you want, you just want the bad people to not be allowed to hurt you. How about you go out and impose your will on space, rather than waiting for CCP to bubble (heh) wrap the game for you.
The biggest blob enforces their will. And we all know who that is. I, like most players, have no interest in Thera because I know that most of the entrances and certainly the stations will be deathtraps, and any attempt to fight the campers will just result in being escalated beyond my ability to match.
Want trade in Thera? Trade requires security. Higher level economic activity is not possible in a lawless environment.
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Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
764
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Posted - 2015.03.05 00:15:22 -
[302] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Aaril wrote:It would be interesting to see what happened if they did remove bubbles. Demerius Xenocratus wrote:They should put a no-weapons buffer of 300k or so around the stations. Would make that system interesting. I am forever perplexed with some peoples definition of "interesting". To me, removing the ability for conflict brings up terms more like "tedious" and "boring", rather than "interesting". Thera is more than interesting enough, removing peoples guns is not going to make it more exciting, unless in truth, that isn't what you want, you just want the bad people to not be allowed to hurt you. How about you go out and impose your will on space, rather than waiting for CCP to bubble (heh) wrap the game for you. The biggest blob enforces their will. And we all know who that is. I, like most players, have no interest in Thera because I know that most of the entrances and certainly the stations will be deathtraps, and any attempt to fight the campers will just result in being escalated beyond my ability to match. Want trade in Thera? Trade requires security. Higher level economic activity is not possible in a lawless environment.
In other words, you don't want to put out the effort and you fear loss? Trade doesn't require security it requires half a brain which you clearly lack. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
115
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Posted - 2015.03.05 00:58:48 -
[303] - Quote
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Aaril wrote:It would be interesting to see what happened if they did remove bubbles. Demerius Xenocratus wrote:They should put a no-weapons buffer of 300k or so around the stations. Would make that system interesting. I am forever perplexed with some peoples definition of "interesting". To me, removing the ability for conflict brings up terms more like "tedious" and "boring", rather than "interesting". Thera is more than interesting enough, removing peoples guns is not going to make it more exciting, unless in truth, that isn't what you want, you just want the bad people to not be allowed to hurt you. How about you go out and impose your will on space, rather than waiting for CCP to bubble (heh) wrap the game for you. The biggest blob enforces their will. And we all know who that is. I, like most players, have no interest in Thera because I know that most of the entrances and certainly the stations will be deathtraps, and any attempt to fight the campers will just result in being escalated beyond my ability to match. Want trade in Thera? Trade requires security. Higher level economic activity is not possible in a lawless environment. In other words, you don't want to put out the effort and you fear loss? Trade doesn't require security it requires half a brain which you clearly lack.
The recorded history of the human race begs to differ.
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Cancel Align NOW
Greater Order Of Destruction The Good Christian Society
465
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Posted - 2015.03.05 01:06:51 -
[304] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
The recorded history of the human race begs to differ.
Eve Is Real |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1416
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Posted - 2015.03.05 01:43:47 -
[305] - Quote
I wrote a song for the thread:
Walking in Ammar Walking back from your dock Walking in Ammar Feet they hardly touch the ground Walking in Ammar My feet don't hardly make no sound Walking in, walking in Ammar
Some may say I'm wishing my days away No way And if it's the isk I pay Some say Tomorrow's another day You stay I may as well play |
Asura Vajrarupa
Sanguis Inceptum
33
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Posted - 2015.03.05 02:00:02 -
[306] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
The recorded history of the human race begs to differ.
If you sell it, they will come.
Ignorance is the cause of suffering.
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Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
764
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Posted - 2015.03.05 02:38:04 -
[307] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
The recorded history of the human race begs to differ.
Differ on what? That being successful at anything only requires intelligence and the will to do what you want? I think you need to actually read about history outside of Blizzard's website... |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1044
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Posted - 2015.03.05 04:04:24 -
[308] - Quote
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:That being successful at anything only requires intelligence, the will ... ... resources, finances, education, personal network, economic climate, political environment, personality, most acceptable appearance, physical ability, et cetera.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Hippinse
University of Caille Gallente Federation
58
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Posted - 2015.03.05 04:09:51 -
[309] - Quote
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
The recorded history of the human race begs to differ.
Differ on what? That being successful at anything only requires intelligence and the will to do what you want? I think you need to actually read about history outside of Blizzard's website...
I think the point being made was that you don't see Wal-mart or Target opening stores in Somalia, for example. |
Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1019
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Posted - 2015.03.05 04:26:31 -
[310] - Quote
Lost my ship last night because I made a mistake (oddly enough, not in Thera).
Confirming I was unable to replace my ship, plus all fittings, because the Thera market is completely barren. Then I was completely unsuccessful at undocking and getting to a safe point because the station was ultracamped. I then could not make my way through one of the connections because that connection was also stupidcamped and I couldn't bother to check one of the other connections.
It really isn't that bad.
Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers!
Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6346
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Posted - 2015.03.05 05:08:49 -
[311] - Quote
Hippinse wrote:Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
The recorded history of the human race begs to differ.
Differ on what? That being successful at anything only requires intelligence and the will to do what you want? I think you need to actually read about history outside of Blizzard's website... I think the point being made was that you don't see Wal-mart or Target opening stores in Somalia, for example.
Hence the "Jita without Concord" thing was pure sarcasm.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
123
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Posted - 2015.03.05 13:48:26 -
[312] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
The recorded history of the human race begs to differ.
The point you're all missing, and he's alluding to above, is that traders by their very nature (usually) are not PVP, they're flying vulneravble ships by definition to be able to carry out trade. And these types will need a secure space to be able to move. And yes, traders are not up for risking loss, as their income from trade is their epeen, not kills. So by its very nature they're not going to risk that. PVPers only risk is getting killed and loosing out a kill, plus they're defended and in a ship able to compete in a fight.
(we're talking bulk traders here, not part time small PVPers that trade small amounts in their pvp ships).
So, unless part of a blue network, traders will not operate here. And if there's a blue network - then it's absoltuly no different to any existing 0.0 space - aside from the physical connections.
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
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Daerrol
Furtherance.
39
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Posted - 2015.03.05 14:28:41 -
[313] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
The biggest blob enforces their will. And we all know who that is. I, like most players, have no interest in Thera because I know that most of the entrances and certainly the stations will be deathtraps, and any attempt to fight the campers will just result in being escalated beyond my ability to match.
Want trade in Thera? Trade requires security. Higher level economic activity is not possible in a lawless environment.
This post made me a little mad. Yup, I'l admit it, some nerd rage here. CCP Gave us some content- really cool, new content to be exact. The players are already interacting with it in different and interesting ways, and yet here is someone who flat out refuses to even consider investigating it. Why? "I'lll die!" Good heavens! I may be one known for simply throwing ships away, but come on. Use a rookie ship! You'd see immediately almost all the wormholes to and from Thera are not camped. Another 15 minutes of warping around, you would see only Paleo and Obs are camped with any regularity... Which of course they are they are A: The same grid, B: the top station.
Furthermore the usefulness of Thera is not the stations, it's the bajillion WH connnecting all of EVE to all of EVE. In an era where jump drives are nerfed to the floor, Thera still offers a very easy (albeit a little less safe) way to get your stuff from Null to high, or whatever it is you need to do. Groups like EVE Scout and Furtherance. even exist to help you do it. Stop assuming the world is dark and scary, go engage it in cheap, cheap ships. |
Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1022
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Posted - 2015.03.05 14:42:29 -
[314] - Quote
Daerrol wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
The biggest blob enforces their will. And we all know who that is. I, like most players, have no interest in Thera because I know that most of the entrances and certainly the stations will be deathtraps, and any attempt to fight the campers will just result in being escalated beyond my ability to match.
Want trade in Thera? Trade requires security. Higher level economic activity is not possible in a lawless environment.
This post made me a little mad. Yup, I'l admit it, some nerd rage here. CCP Gave us some content- really cool, new content to be exact. The players are already interacting with it in different and interesting ways, and yet here is someone who flat out refuses to even consider investigating it. Why? "I'lll die!" Good heavens! I may be one known for simply throwing ships away, but come on. Use a rookie ship! You'd see immediately almost all the wormholes to and from Thera are not camped. Another 15 minutes of warping around, you would see only Paleo and Obs are camped with any regularity... Which of course they are they are A: The same grid, B: the top station. Furthermore the usefulness of Thera is not the stations, it's the bajillion WH connnecting all of EVE to all of EVE. In an era where jump drives are nerfed to the floor, Thera still offers a very easy (albeit a little less safe) way to get your stuff from Null to high, or whatever it is you need to do. Groups like EVE Scout and Furtherance. even exist to help you do it. Stop assuming the world is dark and scary, go engage it in cheap, cheap ships.
Dude, c'mon. You didn't see the fleet of 1000 Goon ishtars rolling around curbstomping everything in Thera last night? We're totally at the mercy of gigantic blobs. Hell, I'm being blobbed right now and I'm not even logged in.
Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers!
Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3828
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 14:43:38 -
[315] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:That being successful at anything only requires intelligence, the will ... ... resources, finances, education, personal network, economic climate, political environment, personality, most acceptable appearance, physical ability, et cetera.
...and luck.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
|
Daerrol
Furtherance.
41
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 15:04:58 -
[316] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:Dude, c'mon. You didn't see the fleet of 1000 Goon ishtars rolling around curbstomping everything in Thera last night? We're totally at the mercy of gigantic blobs. Hell, I'm being blobbed right now and I'm not even logged in. Yeah man, I saw'em. We moved a freighter from Grav to the oft camped Paleo. Thank heavens the 1000's of ishtars couldn't land a point during the 30 second warpout. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1048
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 15:20:30 -
[317] - Quote
Thera doesn't interest me because:
"Why would I want to live in a system that is undefendable and share it with reds?"
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10070
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 15:23:39 -
[318] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:That being successful at anything only requires intelligence, the will ... ... resources, finances, education, personal network, economic climate, political environment, personality, most acceptable appearance, physical ability, et cetera. ...and luck.
TL:DR I can't do anything because I don't have all the outside stuff on needs to be successful. I mean really, that Jen guy spent the time making up an 'excuse list'.
And those two posters get mad at me when I tell them they display victim thinking... |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1049
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 16:14:53 -
[319] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:TL:DR I can't do anything because I don't have all the outside stuff on needs to be successful. I mean really, that Jen guy spent the time making up an 'excuse list'. And those two posters get mad at me when I tell them they display victim thinking... ... or I pointed out how lame the patronising tone of their post was?
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10071
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 16:19:54 -
[320] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:TL:DR I can't do anything because I don't have all the outside stuff on needs to be successful. I mean really, that Jen guy spent the time making up an 'excuse list'. And those two posters get mad at me when I tell them they display victim thinking... ... or I pointed out how lame the patronising tone of their post was?
You did no such thing. What you did do was post a 'roadmap to loserville'. I've known many who think like that ("I can't get ahead in life because I didn't get the education the rich kids got, she got the job over me because she's better looking etc etc") and I think is sad.
People display that mentality in game. "I can't do anything in high sec because of gankers", all the while I'm doing what I want in high sec in a pirate faction ship laughing my backside off at gankers. People fail because fail is a part of their personalities, not because of some external evil. |
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Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
693
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 16:55:24 -
[321] - Quote
Thera is the best place to be in game if youre interested in small gang PvP, however just as long as you use the sometimes 20 wh exits to roam, PvP in Thera itself is hell.
Topic: yes I moved to Thera and never had as much fun as I do now.
RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
115
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 17:14:25 -
[322] - Quote
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
The recorded history of the human race begs to differ.
Differ on what? That being successful at anything only requires intelligence and the will to do what you want? I think you need to actually read about history outside of Blizzard's website...
Awe. You actually believe that, how cute.
|
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
115
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 17:23:13 -
[323] - Quote
Asura Vajrarupa wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
The recorded history of the human race begs to differ.
If you sell it, they will come.
Not when the same goods are available elsewhere with greater safety and lower cost. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
115
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 17:30:28 -
[324] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:That being successful at anything only requires intelligence, the will ... ... resources, finances, education, personal network, economic climate, political environment, personality, most acceptable appearance, physical ability, et cetera. ...and luck. TL:DR I can't do anything because I don't have all the outside stuff on needs to be successful. I mean really, that Jen guy spent the time making up an 'excuse list'. And those two posters get mad at me when I tell them they display victim thinking...
So you're denying that any of those things are a factor?
I think we just found the Republican nominee for 2016.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10075
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 17:38:40 -
[325] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:That being successful at anything only requires intelligence, the will ... ... resources, finances, education, personal network, economic climate, political environment, personality, most acceptable appearance, physical ability, et cetera. ...and luck. TL:DR I can't do anything because I don't have all the outside stuff on needs to be successful. I mean really, that Jen guy spent the time making up an 'excuse list'. And those two posters get mad at me when I tell them they display victim thinking... So you're denying that any of those things are a factor? I think we just found the Republican nominee for 2016.
I'm saying that people will find any external excuse for their failures (or for the existence of things in life that they don't like) when the problem tends to be internal (themselves). The post I quoted is a text book example of the kind of thinking behind that.
And I'm not running in 2016. 2020 maybe, if the rent is still too damn high.
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
116
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 20:09:00 -
[326] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
I'm saying that people will find any external excuse for their failures (or for the existence of things in life that they don't like) when the problem tends to be internal (themselves). The post I quoted is a text book example of the kind of thinking behind that.
And I'm not running in 2016. 2020 maybe, if the rent is still too damn high.
Of course people make excuses. But their options are also defined by many factors outside their control including genetics, geography, parentage, and environment. You can label any statement as an excuse in order to avoiding acknowledging that it is true.
And this is a departure from my sole point which was that a cursory glance at human history proves that markets require stability and order to develop. People engage in economic activity in EVE for the same reasons they do in real life - to make a profit. An environment prone to high levels of unpredictable risk is not an attractive business climate.
I'm sure Thera is interesting from an exploration/PvP perspective and useful as a transit point between the different security zones, but it does not meet the conditions for a viable trade hub.
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March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1548
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 20:45:16 -
[327] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: I'm saying that people will find any external excuse for their failures (or for the existence of things in life that they don't like) when the problem tends to be internal (themselves).
so... You are saying that should be find yourself in space without your space suit you will happily do whatever you want to do. Because you 'don't need excuses'?
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
116
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 21:05:24 -
[328] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: I'm saying that people will find any external excuse for their failures (or for the existence of things in life that they don't like) when the problem tends to be internal (themselves).
so... You are saying that should be find yourself in space without your space suit you will happily do whatever you want to do. Because you 'don't need excuses'?
John Galt would assemble his own space suit out of space particles and sheer force of will.
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Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
308
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 23:41:30 -
[329] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:March rabbit wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: I'm saying that people will find any external excuse for their failures (or for the existence of things in life that they don't like) when the problem tends to be internal (themselves).
so... You are saying that should be find yourself in space without your space suit you will happily do whatever you want to do. Because you 'don't need excuses'? John Galt would assemble his own space suit out of space particles and sheer force of will.
Therea is cool. Most people over the age of 19 view Ayn Rand as a hack. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1050
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 00:19:09 -
[330] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:People display that mentality in game. "I can't do anything in high sec because of gankers", Grab an interceptor and come ask our standing fleet about what we can't do and who is saying what we can.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
|
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Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1040
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 00:39:31 -
[331] - Quote
We're referencing Atlas Shrugged now?
Someone poke me when we start comparing the Keynes-Hayek comparisson to running sleeper sites in Thera.
Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers!
Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
|
Cancel Align NOW
Greater Order Of Destruction The Good Christian Society
467
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 01:22:15 -
[332] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
I'm saying that people will find any external excuse for their failures (or for the existence of things in life that they don't like) when the problem tends to be internal (themselves). The post I quoted is a text book example of the kind of thinking behind that.
And I'm not running in 2016. 2020 maybe, if the rent is still too damn high.
Of course people make excuses. But their options are also defined by many factors outside their control including genetics, geography, parentage, and environment. You can label any statement as an excuse in order to avoiding acknowledging that it is true.
So let us join together in collectives where the work of all is amassed and divided equally amongst all. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10096
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 03:39:47 -
[333] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: I'm saying that people will find any external excuse for their failures (or for the existence of things in life that they don't like) when the problem tends to be internal (themselves).
so... You are saying that should be find yourself in space without your space suit you will happily do whatever you want to do. Because you 'don't need excuses'?
No, I would prevent myself from being n space in the 1st place were there any doubt about having a space suit. Only irresponsible people "find themselves" in dangerous places, responsible people think and plan before hand.
To put an arbitrary number to it, peoples problems tend to be 99% them. The other 1%is the entire rest of the universe. People that understand this succeed (master your self, have more control over your fate) win, people who find excuses, oh, im sorry, "reasons" why the can't move forward, fail. Simple as that.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10096
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 03:43:00 -
[334] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Of course people make excuses. But their options are also defined by many factors outside their control including genetics, geography, parentage, and environment. You can label any statement as an excuse in order to avoiding acknowledging that it is true.
Those things are not barriers for anyone save someone who surrenders to them. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12015
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 05:00:28 -
[335] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Of course people make excuses. But their options are also defined by many factors outside their control including genetics, geography, parentage, and environment. You can label any statement as an excuse in order to avoiding acknowledging that it is true.
Those things are not barriers for anyone save someone who surrenders to them.
You're talking to people who genuinely believe that a Fortune 500 CEO only has his position because of some nebulous "privilege".
Don't bother.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
3725
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 19:47:24 -
[336] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Of course people make excuses. But their options are also defined by many factors outside their control including genetics, geography, parentage, and environment. You can label any statement as an excuse in order to avoiding acknowledging that it is true.
Those things are not barriers for anyone save someone who surrenders to them. You're talking to people who genuinely believe that a Fortune 500 CEO only has his position because of some nebulous "privilege". Don't bother. I'd argue the #1 trait to hold such a position is being ruthless.
Fortune 500 CEOs would fare well in EVE.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
ashley Eoner
457
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 22:27:03 -
[337] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Of course people make excuses. But their options are also defined by many factors outside their control including genetics, geography, parentage, and environment. You can label any statement as an excuse in order to avoiding acknowledging that it is true.
Those things are not barriers for anyone save someone who surrenders to them. You're talking to people who genuinely believe that a Fortune 500 CEO only has his position because of some nebulous "privilege". Don't bother. Not all but there is no doubt the right family name makes it far FAR easier.
Donald Trumph for example. The only reason he isn't a broke loser living on the streets is because mommy and daddy had a lot of friends. I could list a good hundred or so names of similar CEOs...
Then there's the people like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs who climbed their own way up and then took different paths once they reached that level. Steve Wozniak just wasn't a big enough ******* to counter Jobs. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3830
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 22:56:56 -
[338] - Quote
ashley Eoner wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Of course people make excuses. But their options are also defined by many factors outside their control including genetics, geography, parentage, and environment. You can label any statement as an excuse in order to avoiding acknowledging that it is true.
Those things are not barriers for anyone save someone who surrenders to them. You're talking to people who genuinely believe that a Fortune 500 CEO only has his position because of some nebulous "privilege". Don't bother. Not all but there is no doubt the right family name makes it far FAR easier. Donald Trumph for example. The only reason he isn't a broke loser living on the streets is because mommy and daddy had a lot of friends. I could list a good hundred or so names of similar CEOs... Then there's the people like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs who climbed their own way up and then took different paths once they reached that level. Steve Wozniak just wasn't a big enough ******* to counter Jobs.
Well, Bill Gates climbed his own way...
...but not before first attending to the only High School in the US which had a private-owned computer. That allowed him a kind of access to computers which few professionals, and let alone freak teens, had at the time.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
|
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1911
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 05:33:12 -
[339] - Quote
I think CCP should allow freighters through Thera's highsec and lowsec statics. An alternative (and my preference because it would help industry at the same time) would be to give the system a unique reprocessing buff.
I tried stocking the Thera market with T1, T2 and faction hulls of all sizes along with modules and consumables. I gave up. The turnover and profit was less than my lowsec stations, even with the same margin of approximately Jita + 10%.
Does anyone disagree that the Thera market has utterly failed to live up to Fozzie's stated goal that Thera should become a 'Jita without CONCORD'? Thera is a unique system that offers unique PvP challenges to older players. This concept could, and should, be extended to the market. Jita trading is profitable but, frankly, routine and boring. I want something more.
So why has the Thera market not boomed? I think it is because of a) the PvP style and, b) the fact that there are so many statics.
First, the PvP style is small gang as opposed to large fleet with rigid doctrines. These sort of players are typically more flexible and better able (and willing) to supply their own needs. This, combined with the fact that there are so many useful statics to highsec and lowsec, means that restocking is rarely a problem. A DST through a lowsec connection will bring in half a dozen cruiser hulls, a dozen destroyers or two dozen frigates, along with a big pile of consumables. One such run is adequate to supply a good small gang pilot for quite a while.
This means that pilots are easily able to avoid the elevated charges that are currently associated with the Thera market. So should the number of exits be reduced? Of course not. This would defeat the purpose of Thera. I would, instead, like to see the mass limits on the lowsec and highsec connections increased to allow freighters through.
I doubt this would greatly change the Thera meta. Perhaps it would have back when Thera was opened up but the novelty of the system has now worn off and the meta is now firmly established.
What alternatives to a DST through a lowsec entry exist now? First, I could use a jump freighter to get stock to nullsec and then through an E587. No thanks. The risk/reward isn't even close to worth it. Let's say I were to fill the jump freighter with cruiser hulls, averaging 50m each, and charge a 10% margin. That is ~165m profit per load. This might sound like a lot but, considering the risk involved in getting the freighter to null and then into a Thera station, it isn't remotely close to being attractive. Especially given the margins and throughput that can be attained with far less risk.
What is the second alternative? Manufacturing in Thera. This is entirely reasonable due to compression mechanics. It is possible to bring in enough compressed ore to build an awful lot of ships. However, even having the highest possible standing with The Sanctuary does not approach the best nullsec reprocessing rates. And this is in the face of a ship market which quite often operates below cost.
Therefore, my wish is for the highsec and lowsec exits to be enlarged to allow freighters to fit through. Alternatively, the stations in Thera could be given a uniquely high reprocessing rate to make the DST -> hull route attractive.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3421
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 07:53:32 -
[340] - Quote
Contrary to the belief in certain places of Iceland, Somalia is not a industrial haven and Somalian pirates are not known for leading world industry charts.
Trade needs one thing: stability. A trader must be reasonably sure that he will be in time to gather/produce, transport and deliver the items to the market. Being killed along the way is an option only when the market is flourishing, which doesn't happens when too many pioneeers are being killed along the way.
If Thera had high sec status, it would be flourishing. It wouldn't be safe, but it wouldn't be like walking in the streets of Mogadiscio with a handful of 100 dollar bills in your hands and looking stranger.
Also would help that the wormholes lasted enough to allow gather/produce-transport-deliver without alarmclocking and while conducting an adult life -you know, the one which limits access to EVE.
A highsec Thera with connections lasting three days and allowing way to no less than a hundred freighters each way would be like a traveling trade caravan -with a chance to buy low and sell high just by waiting for the right wormhole link, and a modicum of protection to attract enough pioneers as to seed the market.
But oh, CCP knows better. If wasn't that players too know when to dismiss a piece of poor design...
The Greater Fool Bar_ is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! _
|
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Malcaz
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
25
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 09:04:39 -
[341] - Quote
I love how this thread about Thera evolved into a discussion about Ayn Rand and capitalism. |
Leannor
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
143
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 09:10:23 -
[342] - Quote
I'm shocked people are even wondering why Thera isn't the blossoming market they thought it was meant to be. I'm also amaze danyone even tried to make it work.
Trade needs stability and (relative) safety. Shooting ships in a barrel with random hidden connections was never going to make a Jita. Ever.
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
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Leannor
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
143
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 09:12:35 -
[343] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Of course people make excuses. But their options are also defined by many factors outside their control including genetics, geography, parentage, and environment. You can label any statement as an excuse in order to avoiding acknowledging that it is true.
Those things are not barriers for anyone save someone who surrenders to them.
true, but it can make the effort required vastly different from a particular starting point to finish.
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
|
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1912
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 09:17:54 -
[344] - Quote
Oh, and get rid of the bubbles too.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Malcaz
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
25
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 09:26:21 -
[345] - Quote
Maybe something can be done to make Thera safer for economic activity that doesn't make it into a highsec system. For example, if you initiate combat in Thera, the stations won't let you dock for a week. It still allows attacks, but because there are also no POSes, the logistics of pvp becomes harder, and it is harder to base yourself in a way that you can make a career out of pvp in Thera. |
Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1338
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 09:56:54 -
[346] - Quote
There's something wrong with the market in Thera?
Oh, and freighters can use the lowsec holes now.
Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers!
Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
|
Sequester Risalo
Significant Others
89
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 10:14:04 -
[347] - Quote
Thera does not need any changes. It is what mentally unchallanges persons expected it to be from the outset.
To be fair to CCP they never claimed that it would be a major tradehub. The unfortunate Jita comparison was not referring to the market but to the traffic. I quote from the Devblog:
"We expect that Thera will appeal most strongly to players who find the concept of living at the center of an ever-shifting set of wormhole connections appealing. Residents of Thera will know that each day they will have a different menu of neighbors and access to different areas of known space.
We anticipate this to be one of the busiest nullsec systems in EVE over sustained periods, and have plans in place to ensure that it receives appropriate hardware support."
Someone with beter data mining skills might tell you if this has happened. In the beginning it was all the rage. But I guess the traffic has died down now.
Just by reading the devblog I knew that it would not be the place for me. Apparantly others first had to venture there to come to the same conclusion.
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Leannor
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
143
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 10:17:08 -
[348] - Quote
Sequester Risalo wrote:Thera does not need any changes. It is what mentally unchallanges persons expected it to be from the outset.
To be fair to CCP they never claimed that it would be a major tradehub. The unfortunate Jita comparison was not referring to the market but to the traffic. I quote from the Devblog:
"We expect that Thera will appeal most strongly to players who find the concept of living at the center of an ever-shifting set of wormhole connections appealing. Residents of Thera will know that each day they will have a different menu of neighbors and access to different areas of known space.
We anticipate this to be one of the busiest nullsec systems in EVE over sustained periods, and have plans in place to ensure that it receives appropriate hardware support."
Someone with beter data mining skills might tell you if this has happened. In the beginning it was all the rage. But I guess the traffic has died down now.
Just by reading the devblog I knew that it would not be the place for me. Apparantly others first had to venture there to come to the same conclusion.
thing is ... Trade = Traffic. And if they're talking about resident traffic (rather than choke point 'passing' traffic) then by imferrence they're talking about trade causing that traffic, as nothing else is EVE will maintain a constant level of mixed traffic.
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
|
Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1338
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 10:18:30 -
[349] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Oh, and get rid of the bubbles too.
Which ones? The ones that last two minutes or the ones made by the ships that make attractive targets? Both are very easy to work around.
Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers!
Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
|
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1912
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 10:36:27 -
[350] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:Zappity wrote:Oh, and get rid of the bubbles too. Which ones? The ones that last two minutes or the ones made by the ships that make attractive targets? Both are very easy to work around. All of them. What, there's not enough risk without them? Seriously?
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1912
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 10:38:58 -
[351] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:There's something wrong with the market in Thera?
Oh, and freighters can use the lowsec holes now. Yeah, the market is rubbish.
I must have missed the lowsec change. When did that happen? Not that a freighter through lowsec is particularly attractive from any perspective anyway. It should be opened up to high as well. There is enough risk within Thera that I don't understand why there needs to be added risk outside it as well.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1338
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 12:07:42 -
[352] - Quote
Zappity wrote:All of them. What, there's not enough risk without them? Seriously?
What little risk is in the system would be greatly reduced without them. Besides, it is still a wormhole. It needs SOME bubbles (although not allowing anchorable bubbles is nice, I must admit)
Zappity wrote:Yeah, the market is rubbish.
I must have missed the lowsec change. When did that happen? Not that a freighter through lowsec is particularly attractive from any perspective anyway. It should be opened up to high as well. There is enough risk within Thera that I don't understand why there needs to be added risk outside it as well.
I've found the market to be slow, but haven't had any problems buying or selling. Constantly being close to different trade hubs keeps the market interesting. The lowsec holes allowing freighters is new with Scylla. I could agree with expanding it to highsec holes as well. Fingers crossed. I'll stick to my Prowler though.
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Leannor
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
145
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Posted - 2015.03.27 17:00:55 -
[353] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:Zappity wrote:All of them. What, there's not enough risk without them? Seriously? What little risk is in the system would be greatly reduced without them. Besides, it is still a wormhole. It needs SOME bubbles (although not allowing anchorable bubbles is nice, I must admit) Zappity wrote:Yeah, the market is rubbish.
I must have missed the lowsec change. When did that happen? Not that a freighter through lowsec is particularly attractive from any perspective anyway. It should be opened up to high as well. There is enough risk within Thera that I don't understand why there needs to be added risk outside it as well. I've found the market to be slow, but haven't had any problems buying or selling. Constantly being close to different trade hubs keeps the market interesting. The lowsec holes allowing freighters is new with Scylla. I could agree with expanding it to highsec holes as well. Fingers crossed. I'll stick to my Prowler though.
case rested ...
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3429
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Posted - 2015.03.27 20:02:40 -
[354] - Quote
Leannor wrote:Ned Thomas wrote:Zappity wrote:All of them. What, there's not enough risk without them? Seriously? What little risk is in the system would be greatly reduced without them. Besides, it is still a wormhole. It needs SOME bubbles (although not allowing anchorable bubbles is nice, I must admit) Zappity wrote:Yeah, the market is rubbish.
I must have missed the lowsec change. When did that happen? Not that a freighter through lowsec is particularly attractive from any perspective anyway. It should be opened up to high as well. There is enough risk within Thera that I don't understand why there needs to be added risk outside it as well. I've found the market to be slow, but haven't had any problems buying or selling. Constantly being close to different trade hubs keeps the market interesting. The lowsec holes allowing freighters is new with Scylla. I could agree with expanding it to highsec holes as well. Fingers crossed. I'll stick to my Prowler though. case rested ...
"Slow" as in "it takes 3 weeks to sell a dozen T2 modules"...
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Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1341
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Posted - 2015.03.27 21:14:08 -
[355] - Quote
Eh, it works for me. I don't operate at a high trade volume and don't care how long something takes to sell.
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Daerrol
Furtherance.
76
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Posted - 2015.03.27 21:31:03 -
[356] - Quote
I buy as much in Thera as I did in Kamela... (not much) But I still probably spend more time in Thera than _any_ other system out there. There are more groups in Thera living than most other 0.0 systems... I suspect it has around 40-60 people at any time who are based there, weather they are in the system itself is not really relevant to the uses of the system. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1912
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Posted - 2015.03.27 21:32:01 -
[357] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:Eh, it works for me. I don't operate at a high trade volume and don't care how long something takes to sell. 'high trade volume' and 'takes ages to sell' are pretty much mutually exclusive. Do you mean you have a lot of items up for sale?
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1348
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Posted - 2015.03.27 21:51:16 -
[358] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Ned Thomas wrote:Eh, it works for me. I don't operate at a high trade volume and don't care how long something takes to sell. 'high trade volume' and 'takes ages to sell' are pretty much mutually exclusive. Do you mean you have a lot of items up for sale?
My mistake. Small number of things for sale.
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Desimus Maximus
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
188
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Posted - 2015.03.27 22:27:05 -
[359] - Quote
Thera was ill-conceived unless it's only purpose was to give "leet" pvpers more opportunity, or "GUD FIGHTS" aka kills on unsuspecting noob carebears in Retrievers and Ventures in C2 WHs.
In that case, well done *clap clap clap*, well done indeed...
Protip, if ur so leet and need "GUD FIGHTS" take a little swim into lowsec... or are you scared? |
Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1354
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Posted - 2015.03.27 22:53:02 -
[360] - Quote
Desimus Maximus wrote:Thera was ill-conceived unless it's only purpose was to give "leet" pvpers more opportunity, or "GUD FIGHTS" aka kills on unsuspecting noob carebears in Retrievers and Ventures in C2 WHs. In that case, well done *clap clap clap*, well done indeed... Protip, if ur so leet and need "GUD FIGHTS" take a little swim into lowsec... or are you scared?
From what I understand, the pvp'ers like the lowsec holes for small gang roams. Fights in the nullsec holes are usually larger affairs, and kills in the wormholes are quick strikes against pve targets with larger fights being extremely rare. And as an explorer, the lowsec holes are where I prefer to roam as I feel more comfortable there than nullsec (I feel most comfortable in other wormholes, of course).
I'm just one little space pacifist though
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Leannor
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
146
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Posted - 2015.03.30 10:10:45 -
[361] - Quote
Malcaz wrote:Maybe something can be done to make Thera safer for economic activity that doesn't make it into a highsec system. For example, if you initiate combat in Thera, the stations won't let you dock for a week. It still allows attacks, but because there are also no POSes, the logistics of pvp becomes harder, and it is harder to base yourself in a way that you can make a career out of pvp in Thera.
maybe, ... but effectively you're saying "reduce PVP", which is what High Sec does (no matter what some 0.0 people claim).
Reducing PVP shouldn't be the objective. Increasing safety for Industry should be the objective ('if' you want to create a JITA style market). How you do this, I don't know. But with a safe stable industrial sector, you will have a healthy, well stocked and fast market. This can supply a local population determined on killing each other for whatever reason.
Maybe there's a way to encourage people to not target 'easy' targets such as Industrial ships, and instead target fair battles: cruiser against cruiser, etc. Or at least PVP ships against PVP ships.
Anything short of this, will only lead to just another busy lo-sec/0.0 system. Nothing more. Never a Jita.
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
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Vyl Vit
1158
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Posted - 2015.03.30 14:56:43 -
[362] - Quote
How did this all work out? Is Thera "the new Jita without CONCORD"?
Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
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Daerrol
Furtherance.
79
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Posted - 2015.03.30 15:14:08 -
[363] - Quote
Thera is a lot of fun. It is not Jita. It is a high activity nullsec system. |
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
725
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Posted - 2015.03.30 15:34:43 -
[364] - Quote
Thera is still great as a staging system and the last gaps in the market are filling (Rigs mostly). The exits are not camped 99% of the time and if thats too much risk for our dear elite market PvPers they cant be helped. Recently another PvP group moved in aswell, I think we gonna have a lot of fun together.
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Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1377
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 15:51:03 -
[365] - Quote
Thread just keeps going, eh?
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Daerrol
Furtherance.
79
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 16:28:53 -
[366] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:Thera is still great as a staging system and the last gaps in the market are filling (Rigs mostly). The exits are not camped 99% of the time and if thats too much risk for our dear elite market PvPers they cant be helped. Recently another PvP group moved in aswell, I think we gonna have a lot of fun together. I just set up some manufacturing jobs to bring those very rigs in. Assuming you guys don't gank my hauler again >.>
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Liam Inkuras
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
1501
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Posted - 2015.03.31 02:45:51 -
[367] - Quote
Daerrol wrote:Baali Tekitsu wrote:Thera is still great as a staging system and the last gaps in the market are filling (Rigs mostly). The exits are not camped 99% of the time and if thats too much risk for our dear elite market PvPers they cant be helped. Recently another PvP group moved in aswell, I think we gonna have a lot of fun together. I just set up some manufacturing jobs to bring those very rigs in. Assuming you guys don't gank my hauler again >.> Pay your parking fee
I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
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