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Fleet Battles a thing of the past?

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Valtaer Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.28 03:39:00 - [1] Ok I need 2 disclaimers before I write this: 1) for some reason I can't post with my main despite trying several times but it isn't important to this post anyway. Maybe it will work this time*?? 2) I am prepared for major flamage here by you eve purists but this is a real question and I'm looking for a real answer. On Aug 26th in the afternoon EST I was in a fleet battle in Venal. Again because I don't want to get flamed I'll say we lost the battle, we were never going to win, I don't want the ship back, I'm not whining, losing is not the issue. There was a total of 69 pilots in system and we were fairly evenly matched I think. When the battle started our FC called a primary and secondary and here is what happened: I have all effects shut off The enemy fleet uncloaks (they jumped in on us), I scroll to the primary and secondary and control click them, I hit f1 f2 f3 f4 f5 f6 alt-f1 for my highs and my jammer. All my high slots start flashing, my lock goes through, my highs and jammer light up green but my ammo count doesn't go down (I use rails) neither does my missiles. My FPS drops to about 1. I appear to have stopped moving, my target reticle stops spinning around. I get a combat message that says "so and so's cruise hits you for ~400 damage" I think: wow...that's hard through shields so I hit my hardeners (i was using actives) and my shield booster. Nothing happens, then the screen refreshes, I am in structure, I pop. I warp myself to a planet. Ok, I have been in fleet battles before, bigger ones than that and I know the game lags but that is rediculous and it isn't the first time it's happened just the last. Even getting hit by rats I've been lagged out. I talked to the other pilots in the fleet and they all experienced the same thing... not an excuse for losing! I would like to talk to someone from the enemy fleet and see what they experienced. I have a new comp, 256 mb geforce vid card and a cable modem that runs (according to bandwidth testers) between 3600 kbps (not usually, this is slow) and 5119.2 kbps I have seen it over 6k before. I have talked to friends in other regions of the game in other alliances and they are saying the same thing... fleet battles are dead, the server can't handle them.... What say you, forum commandos?????? Am I the proud owner of a future [Auction] 10 mil SP Caldari PvP account??? Cause I'm not really interested in continuing if this is the future of eve. Hey it posted with my main what do you know... anyway that's me.
Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.28 04:22:00 - [2] Fleet battles aren't dead. When enemy comes to you with a fleet, you have to meet him with a fleet, even if you know, that 80% will be totally lagged out. May be there's some comprehensive resource on the Dragon patch, which should explain us what was all that about. Because so far Dragon patch has brought us mostly new looks in the interface, and lots of lag with that ridiculous queue system.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.28 07:04:00 - [3] This kind of thing doesnt directly affect me. However it is really disturbing. See if the same thing happens in a game like WoW, people will be annoyed, but they will live with it. This is due to the penalty of death being virtually nil in WoW. Now, if this happens in Eve, the tables are turned. Loss can be extremely painful, especially when considering (ie) 40 battleships being lagged out and all of them dying. It just removes all fairness from the game. I personally believe that there should be some kind of warp point for fleet pvp, where the warring sides are moved to their own node automatically. If this isnt possible , there is a period where both sides initiate a fleet combat acceptance. All members of those gangs are then warped to a random area in that system and all modules are unable to be activated for ie 1 minute, giving the system enough time to load all the players. Flying around is still possible. The timer would be just like the server downtime timer. This second option may not do much, but at least it would limit the mass lag that ensues when people have 50 players appear out of nowhere. Who knows if it would work. Either way, something has to be done as currently having fleet battles possible is totally unfair when loss is so severe, and having lag be the only cause of loss is a joke. Insured Research and Production Services
Doltish The Arrow Project	Posted - 2006.08.28 07:14:00 - [4] Originally by: Ricdic I personally believe that there should be some kind of warp point for fleet pvp, where the warring sides are moved to their own node automatically. Ok this has been shot down by Dev's about nine hundred times in many other threads. Moving things to new nodes requires a server shut-down, or something of the likes. It's not something that can be accomplished lightly. It would require a complete "re-do" of EVE and it's hardware to change. So it will never happen, please god stop suggesting it.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.28 07:30:00 - [5] Originally by: Doltish Originally by: Ricdic I personally believe that there should be some kind of warp point for fleet pvp, where the warring sides are moved to their own node automatically. Ok this has been shot down by Dev's about nine hundred times in many other threads. Moving things to new nodes requires a server shut-down, or something of the likes. It's not something that can be accomplished lightly. It would require a complete "re-do" of EVE and it's hardware to change. So it will never happen, please god stop suggesting it. I assume you found something to pick on, and forgot the rest of my post. Here it is in case you can't see it above: Quote: If this isnt possible , there is a period where both sides initiate a fleet combat acceptance. All members of those gangs are then warped to a random area in that system and all modules are unable to be activated for ie 1 minute, giving the system enough time to load all the players. Flying around is still possible. The timer would be just like the server downtime timer. Insured Research and Production Services
Tachy	Posted - 2006.08.28 07:55:00 - [6] Sounds like Dragon Code works like a charm ... but someone forgot to disable all the stop points and extra logging from debugging. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
End Yourself Core Domination	Posted - 2006.08.28 08:28:00 - [7] Edited by: End Yourself on 28/08/2006 08:29:13 Anyone who brings a setup containing shield booster and hardeners for a fleet battle has much bigger problems than laaaag and deserves to die anyway. Not like the shield booster will be running more than one cycle when called primary. Even with zero lag. Making ISK is sooo frickin (too) easy one can make enough for more than one t2 fitted BS(platinum insured one) in a day(just few hours) with ease. So stop whining and start slaving! Not like the other side didn't have the same problems. Maybe they just had "fleet setups" on their ships?!? --- Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
Heritor Caldari Polytope	Posted - 2006.08.28 08:34:00 - [8] Edited by: Heritor on 28/08/2006 08:34:08 Somebody obviously started copying in book marks in each fleet.....silly thing to do but they do it Always where your seatbelt, its far harder for the aliens to abduct you!
Drayce Caldari Solitary Forsaken	Posted - 2006.08.28 08:57:00 - [9] Originally by: End Yourself Edited by: End Yourself on 28/08/2006 08:29:13 Anyone who brings a setup containing shield booster and hardeners for a fleet battle has much bigger problems than laaaag and deserves to die anyway. Not like the shield booster will be running more than one cycle when called primary. Even with zero lag. Making ISK is sooo frickin (too) easy one can make enough for more than one t2 fitted BS(platinum insured one) in a day(just few hours) with ease. So stop whining and start slaving! Not like the other side didn't have the same problems. Maybe they just had "fleet setups" on their ships?!? Um, did you read the part in his post where he claims that he isn't whining about losing? The point of his post was to find out if everyone was having this issue, not a complaint that his side lost. always remember... Think before you post
Shiraz Merlot Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.08.28 09:04:00 - [10] Edited by: Shiraz Merlot on 28/08/2006 09:04:48 Originally by: Doltish It's not something that can be accomplished lightly. It would require a complete "re-do" of EVE and it's hardware to change. So it will never happen, please god stop suggesting it. could probably do it with VMware's Vmotion stuff tbh, if CCP wanted to license it. To the OP: it is currently impossible for a covert ops ship to survive a 'dictor or warp bubble. Until CCP fix that, expect fewer fleet battles.
End Yourself Core Domination	Posted - 2006.08.28 09:08:00 - [11] Originally by: Drayce Um, did you read the part in his post where he claims that he isn't whining about losing? The point of his post was to find out if everyone was having this issue, not a complaint that his side lost. Did you read the part where he "whined" and "threatened" to quit? Originally by: OP Am I the proud owner of a future [Auction] 10 mil SP Caldari PvP account??? Cause I'm not really interested in continuing if this is the future of eve. --- Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
Drayce Caldari Solitary Forsaken	Posted - 2006.08.28 09:13:00 - [12] Edited by: Drayce on 28/08/2006 09:13:30 Originally by: End Yourself Did you read the part where he "whined" and "threatened" to quit? Originally by: OP Am I the proud owner of a future [Auction] 10 mil SP Caldari PvP account??? Cause I'm not really interested in continuing if this is the future of eve. I guess we read his post differently. Still no excuse for posting as unconstructively as you did though always remember... Think before you post
End Yourself Core Domination	Posted - 2006.08.28 09:25:00 - [13] Originally by: Drayce Edited by: Drayce on 28/08/2006 09:13:30 Originally by: End Yourself Did you read the part where he "whined" and "threatened" to quit? Originally by: OP Am I the proud owner of a future [Auction] 10 mil SP Caldari PvP account??? Cause I'm not really interested in continuing if this is the future of eve. I guess we read his post differently. Still no excuse for posting as unconstructively as you did though My post was harsh but it was NOT unconstructive at all. His setup was crap i am pretty sure. It's a good start to know that fact. 90% of the peeps who mount this kind of setups will not wake up if you aren't a bit rude. Lots even will continue mounting them on purpose. Because they do NOT care about their fleet at all. All they care about is their personal assets(in this case the BS) beeing safer(even if it is just <1% safer) And i have been through enough "noob/carebear/leecher/... alliances" to know what i am talking about. Ofc i dunno the OP and can't tell for sure BUT someone who "threatens" to quit does not deserve to be treated with kid gloves at all. --- Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.08.28 09:29:00 - [14] Originally by: End Yourself My post was harsh but it was NOT unconstructive at all. His setup was crap i am pretty sure. It's a good start to know that fact. It's completely and utterly irrelevant to know that fact, unless you seriously believe that running a shield booster increases the amount of lag you suffer. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Khajit Smitty Minmatar MisFunk Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.28 09:32:00 - [15] Originally by: Drayce Um, did you read the part in his post where he claims that he isn't whining about losing? Thats a lost battle, 60% of the people who reply to threads dont have "Forum Thread Reading" trained to level 1.... But to the OP it is a question i wanted to know, has the lag improved at all with the new code branch and fleet battles ? Based on your encouter it sounds like it hasn't which is sad really!
Chewan Mesa Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.08.28 09:49:00 - [16] I think you are talking about the Fleetbattle with us? o.0 I was a bit worried about jumping in but we didnt have much lag at all, some FPS-dropping yeah, but hardly any module-lag. From experience it should've been the other way around though :) Sorry you didnt have a good fight though, was quite fun for us.
End Yourself Core Domination	Posted - 2006.08.28 09:50:00 - [17] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: End Yourself My post was harsh but it was NOT unconstructive at all. His setup was crap i am pretty sure. It's a good start to know that fact. It's completely and utterly irrelevant to know that fact, unless you seriously believe that running a shield booster increases the amount of lag you suffer. If it's not a good thing to know about one's own bad setup so one can change it for the next fleet op and be more effective... well... then... nevermind... i give up. And yes, having been in alliances where a typical pvp setup incl. crap like tractor beams i am a "burnt child". Nice to know that your gangmates are not equipped to be of any help(no EW whatsoever) when you get called primary BUT will be the first to scoop any loot, isn't it? And this paragraph is not aimed at the OP btw. Disclaimer just in case anyone insists on "getting me wrong". And i was as constructive as i could. If he had named his ship type might have even linked to a good setup. Anyway, i'm out. --- Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.08.28 09:57:00 - [18] I think I am thinking about the same battle as you, and the guys you were fighting were not lagged at all. I spoke to an FLA pilot just after the battle who said that you guys had lagged. I don't know how bad it had been for you, but from what I could see, it was the ECM coverage, bad primary calling and the inability to focus fire which cost you guys the battle. Of course, if you couldn't fire because of lag, that is quite a big issue. I'm not sure why (short of ebil sploiters) why the battle would have lagged for one side, and not for the other, particularly given that the hostiles jumped into YOU. As for the setups involved, yours were not impressive. Every raven that exploded blew up had a booster, that is not cool. Still, people having their hardeners off is news to me
End Yourself Core Domination	Posted - 2006.08.28 10:04:00 - [19] Originally by: Chewan Mesa I think you are talking about the Fleetbattle with us? o.0 I was a bit worried about jumping in but we didnt have much lag at all, some FPS-dropping yeah, but hardly any module-lag. From experience it should've been the other way around though :) Sorry you didnt have a good fight though, was quite fun for us. I think if the jumping in part is done properly(jump in 2 or 3 groups so noone gets emergency warped out, then when everyone is there the gang leader clicks regroup to uncloak everyone at same time) then "(client?)lag should favor" the gang who jumped in. The "defending gang" still has the advantage of beeing at optimum range, aligned at speed allready. And they won't be jumping straight inside an interdictor bubble as well. Of course emergency warps due to jump in lag, peeps crashing while jumping in..... can screw it up badly for the "attackers". --- Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
Rayvonuk	Posted - 2006.08.28 10:09:00 - [20] SO has the lag at fleet battles improved, not much reason to keep playing if what im aiming for doesnt work right.
Turiya Flesharrower Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.08.28 10:28:00 - [21] Originally by: Valtaer Ok I need 2 disclaimers before I write this: 1) for some reason I can't post with my main despite trying several times but it isn't important to this post anyway. Maybe it will work this time*?? 2) I am prepared for major flamage here by you eve purists but this is a real question and I'm looking for a real answer. On Aug 26th in the afternoon EST I was in a fleet battle in Venal. Again because I don't want to get flamed I'll say we lost the battle, we were never going to win, I don't want the ship back, I'm not whining, losing is not the issue. There was a total of 69 pilots in system and we were fairly evenly matched I think. When the battle started our FC called a primary and secondary and here is what happened: I have all effects shut off The enemy fleet uncloaks (they jumped in on us), I scroll to the primary and secondary and control click them, I hit f1 f2 f3 f4 f5 f6 alt-f1 for my highs and my jammer. All my high slots start flashing, my lock goes through, my highs and jammer light up green but my ammo count doesn't go down (I use rails) neither does my missiles. My FPS drops to about 1. I appear to have stopped moving, my target reticle stops spinning around. I get a combat message that says "so and so's cruise hits you for ~400 damage" I think: wow...that's hard through shields so I hit my hardeners (i was using actives) and my shield booster. Nothing happens, then the screen refreshes, I am in structure, I pop. I warp myself to a planet. Ok, I have been in fleet battles before, bigger ones than that and I know the game lags but that is rediculous and it isn't the first time it's happened just the last. Even getting hit by rats I've been lagged out. I talked to the other pilots in the fleet and they all experienced the same thing... not an excuse for losing! I would like to talk to someone from the enemy fleet and see what they experienced. I have a new comp, 256 mb geforce vid card and a cable modem that runs (according to bandwidth testers) between 3600 kbps (not usually, this is slow) and 5119.2 kbps I have seen it over 6k before. I have talked to friends in other regions of the game in other alliances and they are saying the same thing... fleet battles are dead, the server can't handle them.... What say you, forum commandos?????? Am I the proud owner of a future [Auction] 10 mil SP Caldari PvP account??? Cause I'm not really interested in continuing if this is the future of eve. Hey it posted with my main what do you know... anyway that's me. I'm quite surprised that you guys had problems the other night; only one or two of our pilots complained of debilitating lag in that fight and I think one of them was the guy you called primary initially so it could be related to that. Personally I was fairly apprehensive about jumping in on you guys since we'd been experiencing problems in the area with jump lag and even jump queues. However I have to say that it was probably one of the most lag-free battles I've ever been in; after I gave the regroup command, we had about 10 seconds where the game froze for everyone but then everything ran smoothly for me at least. If you want a look at what happened first-hand, check out the video here. As you can see from that video, it was pretty smooth riding all of the way through; very surprising I must say considering our experiences during the evening. It's a real shame that unpredictable lag can tilt the balance of a battle, especially given that the battle was relatively small in scale compared to what's happening in D7 and Fountain. The system we fought in probably had a low node priority but that's not a real excuse for this kind of performance. I don't think we should have to move to a high-priority node system in order to have a good time. I'm sorry to hear that lag took the fun away for you guys -----
Tachy	Posted - 2006.08.28 10:39:00 - [22] On the second thought, if the new prelaoding only works for the pilots warping in, the defender is at a big disadvantage now. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.28 10:43:00 - [23] Originally by: End Yourself Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: End Yourself My post was harsh but it was NOT unconstructive at all. His setup was crap i am pretty sure. It's a good start to know that fact. It's completely and utterly irrelevant to know that fact, unless you seriously believe that running a shield booster increases the amount of lag you suffer. If it's not a good thing to know about one's own bad setup so one can change it for the next fleet op and be more effective... well... then... nevermind... i give up. And yes, having been in alliances where a typical pvp setup incl. crap like tractor beams i am a "burnt child". Nice to know that your gangmates are not equipped to be of any help(no EW whatsoever) when you get called primary BUT will be the first to scoop any loot, isn't it? And this paragraph is not aimed at the OP btw. Disclaimer just in case anyone insists on "getting me wrong". And i was as constructive as i could. If he had named his ship type might have even linked to a good setup. Anyway, i'm out. You're "out", but then you keep yapping crap... Sucks that one side was lagged out, and the other was not... Certainly not fair play (not the fault of any players) It's too bad CCP's ineptness gets in the way of the good fun we all pay monthly subs for... I'll never understand game companies who accept lag like this. Lag is part of MMO's, yadda yadda yadda... When is an MMO company going to finally get it right? Why make a game that can't handle one of the major attractions of the game, fleet battles??? ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
NoNameNewbie Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:08:00 - [24] gg the hope: dragon code dragon came, dragon still lags like ** tbh i've given up hoping that ccp even tries to get anything sorted fleetbattle wise. Only thing you can do is this: bring so many ppl that the whole server crahes every ***** time someone does a fleetbattle. All ppl can't play = everyone whining = either ccp does something to fix it or they have to remove it from game.
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:12:00 - [25] Originally by: NoNameNewbie gg the hope: dragon code dragon came, dragon still lags like ** tbh i've given up hoping that ccp even tries to get anything sorted fleetbattle wise. Only thing you can do is this: bring so many ppl that the whole server crahes every ***** time someone does a fleetbattle. All ppl can't play = everyone whining = either ccp does something to fix it or they have to remove it from game. I'd like to know, what the hell will they do when they get 1000 vs. 1000 fleet battles on Serenity? ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Fubear	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:34:00 - [26] Until CCP introduces dynamic node balancing, any sort of large-scale combat is impossible. If you have more than the average number of people the system has to handle, then things get laggy. When two fleets clash, you bring a lot more poeple into a system that is usual, and the servers cannot cope. Even if CCP knows that there is going to be a large battle in a system, they will not give the node the power it will need (this has been confirmed by Oveur), because after the battle the CPU cycles assigned to that system are completely wasted. The way the servers currently work, they cannot cope with a sudden convergence of players fighting in the same system. The only solution to this is dynamic load balancing. It is not impossible to program a dynamic load balancing system, and anyone who says otherwise is lying. It may be difficult to implement one within an exisitng system, and an awful lot of work as well, but this work needs to be done if Eve is going to continue to grow. Of course CCP probably look at the financial costs involved and push the idea to the back burner, so to answer the Op; No fleet battles are a thing of the past, but do not ever expect to have one without massive lag issues outside of a hub system.
End Yourself Core Domination	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:42:00 - [27] Edited by: End Yourself on 28/08/2006 11:45:40 Originally by: Bhaal You're "out", but then you keep yapping crap... Til now i have made one post after the "i'm out"-statement which was meant as i'm out of the fitting discussion. THIS POST Pls point me to a single tiny amount of "crap" in that post. Btw just for your interest i have just watched the video and had a look at all BS kills on beagle killboard. Judging by the BS killmails out of 10 BS killed total 7 were fitted... well... let's say suboptimal. Megathron full of cap rechargers. All ravens "shield tanked". One Raven with tractor beam as well, yay. The other 3 killed BS had good fleet fittings. This battle would have been lost without lag as well. Blaming lag is allways nice and easy. It won't help you to win the next fleetbattle though. By the way those 3 BS are IRON. The other 7 are not. Might want to ask your allies for help with fleet setups. And if you insist on fitting shield hardeners and boosters to your fleet battle ravens(i would suggest taking a scorp instead btw, raven is a nice ship for smaller gangs but that's about it) at least have the hardeners running and don't think you will have time to activate them once called primary. I'd suggest "exploiting" ECM as long as it isn't "fixed" instead of tanking though. The OP btw was in "shield tanked moa"(ok, one multispec) during the fight. He was one of the first to die. Just one minute after the first takedown. My educated guess is that he got pretty much instapopped. And the laaag he was experiencing was pretty much just himself getting into his pod. I'd say just bad luck being one of the first targets. Cruisers don't survive "very long" once under fire. And yes, i'm out now finally. IRON got a good list of suggested fleet setups for all kind of ships. Seen it myself and can only recommend approaching them. --- Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:51:00 - [28] Originally by: Bhaal Why make a game that can't handle one of the major attractions of the game, fleet battles??? Why continue to promote it as a outstanding feature in every interview you see ouver give. Why continue to push the game in a direction where it is an essential part to make things click. Those would be better questions bhaal. It doesn't work now does it, but i very much doubt you will get an answer to either. ______ Long ago one gorgeous night, we let the stars grow free. We let Zhuge do that once, he came back carrying a traffic cone, a forsale sign and three empty bottles of dutch lager. He also lost his Zimmer Frame... - Imaran
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:57:00 - [29] Originally by: End Yourself Edited by: End Yourself on 28/08/2006 11:45:40 Originally by: Bhaal You're "out", but then you keep yapping crap... Til now i have made one post after the "i'm out"-statement which was meant as i'm out of the fitting discussion. THIS POST Pls point me to a single tiny amount of "crap" in that post. Btw just for your interest i have just watched the video and had a look at all BS kills on beagle killboard. Judging by the BS killmails out of 10 BS killed total 7 were fitted... well... let's say suboptimal. Megathron full of cap rechargers. All ravens "shield tanked". One Raven with tractor beam as well, yay. The other 3 killed BS had good fleet fittings. This battle would have been lost without lag as well. Blaming lag is allways nice and easy. It won't help you to win the next fleetbattle though. By the way those 3 BS are IRON. The other 7 are not. Might want to ask your allies for help with fleet setups. And if you insist on fitting shield hardeners and boosters to your fleet battle ravens(i would suggest taking a scorp instead btw, raven is a nice ship for smaller gangs but that's about it) at least have the hardeners running and don't think you will have time to activate them once called primary. I'd suggest "exploiting" ECM as long as it isn't "fixed" instead of tanking though. The OP btw was in "shield tanked moa"(ok, one multispec) during the fight. He was one of the first to die. Just one minute after the first takedown. My educated guess is that he got pretty much instapopped. And the laaag he was experiencing was pretty much just himself getting into his pod. I'd say just bad luck being one of the first targets. Cruisers don't survive "very long" once under fire. And yes, i'm out now finally. IRON got a good list of suggested fleet setups for all kind of ships. Seen it myself and can only recommend approaching them. What's your point? That they would have lost due to improper fittings even if there was no lag? Fine, but that's not the problem here now is it? They could be lying about the lag, but even if that is true, we all know the lag is there, and it's a game killer... Again, I wait to see how the Chinese server deals with this... System ques? That's laughable... Talk about an immersion breaker. (sorry, you cannot supply those reinforcements to defend your outpost until more of your corps pods are popped and the number of players in system is reduced to an acceptable level) Sharding is better than system ques IMO... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Makhaira Gallente Lay Low	Posted - 2006.08.28 12:07:00 - [30] throwing in my 2 pence, the other day (couple of days after Dragon deployment iirc), my corp and a few others formed a squad of about 10 ships, and off we went looking for NMTZ (hi guys! :p) who we were at war with. Few skirmishes round a station, several NMTZ ships dead, zero casualties for us, all good. We then SS'd, and headed to the gate where we had heard that some NMTZ forces were located. (I'd like to add at this point that we knew the other side of the gate was clear due to a scout ). Get to gate, find about 12 NMTZ ships, call primary, engage. Then another 5 NMTZ ships arrive and about 10 fighters. All of a sudden, 10sec lag, impossible to do anything, whole squad just warps out, several ships lost. Now as in the original post, I'm not saying we would have won (fighters would have caused us MAJOR issues apart from anything), but with small local pop, no gate activity, and a relatively small scale engagement, surely there is no need for lag of that magnitude. Just my experiences.

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