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N-Rael Bubble, Tactic or Exploit.

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Jeff Anderson	Posted - 2006.08.31 03:48:00 - [1] Edited by: Jeff Anderson on 31/08/2006 03:50:21 Yes, I am a slight noob, but I have seen bubbles work before. But the bubble the campers use in n-rael seems to behave differently. You see the bubble in n-rael is always about 30km behind the gate, not in front, and you'd expect to miss it, but you never do. you can jump 30km from the gate and still hit the bubble on the other side. Example: Bubble - 20km - gate - 30km destination ... end up in bubble. You see yourself overshoot the gate. I've seen both friend and foe use this technique and even seen them taunt people by saying "well jump to the gate, don't overshoot it". You need to jump to 100km from the gate to avoid it (maybe closer but I haven't survived long enough to test it) The bubble position in n-rael always sucks you in despite it being 20km on the other side of the gate. Is this the normal behaviour ot a bug unique to n-rael as I have never seen it occur like this any where else.
TalMahar Golf Industries	Posted - 2006.08.31 03:54:00 - [2] any bubble works like this. this tactic is designed to designed to 1. keep you from running more easily and 2. catch more people.
Hippo117 Caldari Fallout Industries	Posted - 2006.08.31 03:55:00 - [3] That is perfectly normal operation of a bubble. It can be placed anywhere on grid of the destination gate so long as it is in line with the origin. I have pulled ships well over 300km with a small bubble, and its certainly possible to go farther. -------------- My opinions may not represent the opinions of my corporation or alliance. Booby > Rokh Nerf damps.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.31 03:55:00 - [4] Edited by: Nyphur on 31/08/2006 03:55:24 If you warp into any point on the grid that has a bubble along the same vector as your warp path, it will suck you in. It's a bug but it's an old one that nobody really cares about. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Clementina God's of Eve	Posted - 2006.08.31 03:56:00 - [5] That's where you're supposed to put the bubble. It catches people who warp in on instas. Bubble on the gate catches people who jump from the other side. A large bubble camp has both, but what you have to know is that when there's a bubble, there's bad news. You have to warp 1000+ kms from the gate and use the scanner (overview settings off, if I recall correctly) For the N-Rael gate I think you have to make a scout spot before hand, since there are not any planets close enough to see the gate with the scanner.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.31 03:56:00 - [6] Originally by: Hippo117 That is perfectly normal operation of a bubble. It can be placed anywhere on grid of the destination gate so long as it is in line with the origin. I have pulled ships well over 300km with a small bubble, and its certainly possible to go farther. Do you happen to know if it's possible to simply have a bookmark on the grid abov ethe gate and warp to that, then to the gate? Will that bypass the bubble, assuming it's not in line with the gate? Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Jeff Anderson	Posted - 2006.08.31 04:10:00 - [7] Edited by: Jeff Anderson on 31/08/2006 04:10:47 Ok, so from my understanding, if the destination is effected by the bubble, you will be caught by it despite your intented path or point may never touch it. example: bubble is sitting on a BM you have, you warp in at 100km away from that BM, you are caught by the bubble. This is what I'm getting told by high SP players ... is this the intended behaviour of warp bubbles?
Cmdr Sy EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.08.31 04:27:00 - [8] I have anchored many a bubble in P3, and that's the way I always did it - 15km behind gate for a small bubble, in line with the direction of warp. Typically 1/2 the people would dewarp 20km in front of gate, 1/3 would get sucked into the bubble, ans 1/6 would insta through. This proportion was somewhat increased by people taking an insta from a safe at a right angle to the gate-bubble line, but not by much. The bubble sucking effect was always handy, as I have seen covert ops decloak and die after dewarping straight into the bubble generator on a couple of occasions. I never did find out whether this was the intended effect however, no-one on the camps could agree at the time, and I still have no idea exactly how it was intended to work. But it does, and rather well.
Hippo117 Caldari Fallout Industries	Posted - 2006.08.31 04:37:00 - [9] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Hippo117 That is perfectly normal operation of a bubble. It can be placed anywhere on grid of the destination gate so long as it is in line with the origin. I have pulled ships well over 300km with a small bubble, and its certainly possible to go farther. Do you happen to know if it's possible to simply have a bookmark on the grid abov ethe gate and warp to that, then to the gate? Will that bypass the bubble, assuming it's not in line with the gate? That is possible, for a small bubble (radius of 5km) you can put a bookmark as close as 5.001km above the gate (assuming that the gates and bubble lie in the same plane relative) and approx 12km past and you would be 2500m out of jump range on arrival (if you had infetessimal accuracy). Whats really happening is you are taking your origin point and the place the bookmark or gate you choose to warp to and draw a line between them. Extending the line past the destination spot, anywhere along the line on the destination grid, should the line intersect a bubble, you will be pulled in. Even slight changes to bookmark (or covert ops) placement can allow you safe passage to almost in jump range. another idea for often camped gates is to make a bookmark about 10000km above the gate, and 12km below, and warp to them in that order. Unless a bubble overlaps the gate, you're fine. -------------- My opinions may not represent the opinions of my corporation or alliance. Booby > Rokh Nerf damps.
Aeaus Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.08.31 04:50:00 - [10] If your vector hits a bubble in a grid you will wind up on the edge of the bubble. I used to place bubbles up to 100km from the gate with nice results (works best in systems with two gates and stupid enemies) =p My Guides
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.31 07:51:00 - [11] Originally by: Nyphur Edited by: Nyphur on 31/08/2006 03:55:24 If you warp into any point on the grid that has a bubble along the same vector as your warp path, it will suck you in. It's a bug but it's an old one that nobody really cares about. Last time I played around with it post-Dragon it seemed like it didn't suck people in more than 100km from their original warp destination. I'm guilty of believing the old "anywhere in grid" story too, but one have been consistently unable to get caught by a bubble over 100km from the warpin. Not sure if it was a recent change though, as I hadn't looked too closely until recently.
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.08.31 08:05:00 - [12] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Hippo117 That is perfectly normal operation of a bubble. It can be placed anywhere on grid of the destination gate so long as it is in line with the origin. I have pulled ships well over 300km with a small bubble, and its certainly possible to go farther. Do you happen to know if it's possible to simply have a bookmark on the grid abov ethe gate and warp to that, then to the gate? Will that bypass the bubble, assuming it's not in line with the gate? yep this is fine i do this all the time, sometimes when theres 2 bubbles by a gate. just make sure your coming in from an angle that is not aligned with a bubble that is before or behind a gate. if the bubbles on the gate you cant do this.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.31 08:09:00 - [13] Edited by: Plutoinum on 31/08/2006 08:10:16 How it's supposed to be is probably that you are sucked into the bubble, if the BM you select is inside the bubble. Insta BMs are usually behind the gate in the bubble, so it's normal and working as intended that the bubble sucks everyone in, who uses instas. I haven tested my self so far, if the bubble also sucks people in, if the BM is outside the bubble. Guess that's a bug then. Maybe the suck-in radius is bigger than the scramble radius that you see or mayve it's really that you get always sucked in, if your warp-vector crosses the bubble somewhere in the grid. But if the bubble is 20 km behind the gate and you get sucked in on insta, it is like I said just understandable, because your insta BM is usually about 12km behind the gate and well inside that bubble.
Benglada Finite Auxiliary	Posted - 2006.08.31 08:12:00 - [14] puts small bubble in ishtar --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.31 08:15:00 - [15] I've had this happen too, when warping to a gate at 100km. The moral is, don't warp to bubble-camped gates. Though I was only scouting, and I lost my frickin' pod, so I guess the moral is don't scout bubble-camped gates. So overall the moral of the story is, don't ever warp to gates. ----------
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Nova Republic	Posted - 2006.08.31 18:51:00 - [16] Originally by: Cmdr Sy Typically 1/2 the people would dewarp 20km in front of gate, 1/3 would get sucked into the bubble, ans 1/6 would insta through. This proportion was somewhat increased by people taking an insta from a safe at a right angle to the gate-bubble line, but not by much. Awesome! Totally awesome! I was wondering if bubbles behaved this way, thanks for confirming that. Just avoid gate-to-gate instas, and bubbles are unlikely to catch you. This is perfect. -- Guile should always trump hardware --
Punished One Caldari Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.08.31 20:24:00 - [17] There are in fact several ways to get around bubbles, big or small. As a veteran of M-0 and P3 i in the past made several bm's that made it impossible for me to get caught (caveat - does no include interdictor spheres). Making a bm above or below the gate works. 1000km above and 1000km below. What you do is warp from point A to above or below spot and then make an insta from above or below to gate pointed up or down as opposed to behind the gate as per usual. This is almost fullproof and works 99.9 percent of the time. Also, in the middle of the warp to the gate (middle!) acivate your autopilot! This is will ensure 2 things, 1: If are for some reason caught it will turn you around, and 2: you will jump on contact as opposed to mashing the button and hoping for the best. These bm's also serve as perfect spying platforms, you can zip between the 2 spots to move your warp - and on the way through the spots the baddies will show up on your overview - telling you if gate is still camped. I did the same in N-Rael, but people are real bastages there and set up like 20 bubbles which i think is retarded. GL n stuff
Kalixa Hihro	Posted - 2006.08.31 20:30:00 - [18] that's how bubbles work. /----------------------------------------------------------------------------------/ My opinion in no way represents that of my corp or anyone I am associated with, and is probably entirely wrong.
Kalixa Hihro	Posted - 2006.08.31 20:41:00 - [19] Edited by: Kalixa Hihro on 31/08/2006 20:46:54 Edited by: Kalixa Hihro on 31/08/2006 20:45:57 Originally by: Crumplecorn So overall the moral of the story is, don't ever warp to gates. Next time you are there when it's uncamped make a bookmark as you are coming out of warp (like 1,000,000 km from gate), inline with gate to gate. Warp there first, check gate with scanner. If there are no bubbles or interdictors, use the GTG insta you always do. See, when you are warping to that spot, if there is an interdictor, the interdictor pilot will see you coming and probably decloak and drop a bubble. Spam scanner narrowed to gate, on the way, to scan-safe to see him. Normal bubbles will show up on scanner. Then to increase your mobility a little, when system is uncamped, fly up down left and right. Make a spot 250km above gate so you can see where the bubbles are if there's more than one. Make a safe 400km or so out from gate in each of these directions. Make an insta from each to gate. You won't get caught in a bubble behind gate, if you come in from side This will work on anything but interdictors. Based on what you see from 250km, you can pick the right angle to warp in from. If there is more than one bubble, they may have thought of that Like someone else's sig says -Guile is superior to hardware- I've gotten a small fleet of haulers through EC-P8R that way when there's only one or two bubbles. /emote waves is all they got outta me This whole preparation takes less than an hour in an interceptor. It's worth it if you have to go through there a lot. -Kal /----------------------------------------------------------------------------------/ My opinion in no way represents that of my corp or anyone I am associated with, and is probably entirely wrong.
Nihn Lemai	Posted - 2006.08.31 21:17:00 - [20] How do you make a bm 1 000 000 kms from a gate? Take an inty with mwd and just fly for ages? Btw, do we have any dev responses on this bubble issue? Are they bugged? I just dont like beleiving in rumors. --- I want instas gone... now
Jeff Anderson	Posted - 2006.08.31 21:41:00 - [21] ok, so, to some up what everyone is saying, putting bubbles behind a gate in line with a warp path is taking advantage of a "bug" with the bubble. This would mean that ppl are exploiting it and I could put in a petition for the losses due to the use of this exploit. If a dev would comment it would be alot easier to understand what the "normal behaviour" should be.
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.08.31 21:43:00 - [22] This is normal behaviour, has always been so, and you will gain nothing. Should you petition it, I wholeheartedly hope you get fed to a dragon. Next on the list, you can peition everyone you see using instas.
Jeff Anderson	Posted - 2006.08.31 22:08:00 - [23] The info on bubbles mentions nothing about you being pulled 100km beyond your destination into the edge of the bubble. People are saying its a "known bug" and it does get "exploited" ... Just because its been like that "for a long time" doesn't mean thats the way it was intended.
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.08.31 22:14:00 - [24] If you really want to waste GM time, feel free to petition it, get exactly the same answer I gave you, and rest firm in the knowledge that you pushed someone with a valid petition (I'm sure there are some, somewhere) back in the ever-increasing queue. Have you ever wondered why the petition queue is so long? CCP don't have enough GMs to cope with the outrageous amounts of stupid present in eve. If people only petitioned when something had gone wrong for real, petition response times would be 6minutes, not 6 weeks. Hey that sig reminds me of my tempest - Xorus
Jeff Anderson	Posted - 2006.08.31 22:18:00 - [25] bug exploitation is a petitionable thing, just cause you don't want to loose the benifits of it doesn't mean I have to suffer for it.
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.08.31 22:21:00 - [26] I'm not kidding. It is, as far as I know, intended, and you will receive nothing. CCP have never announced it as a bug or an exploit, nor have they indicated any will to change it, and that is in 18months I've played. If you want to try and petition, feel free, but the dragon comment stands. You will just make yourself look like an idiot and waste a GM's time. Hey that sig reminds me of my tempest - Xorus
Xelios Minmatar Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.08.31 22:22:00 - [27] Originally by: Jeff Anderson bug exploitation is a petitionable thing, just cause you don't want to loose the benifits of it doesn't mean I have to suffer for it. It isn't an exploit unless CCP says it's an exploit. Petitioning it would be a waste of your time and a waste of time for the GM's AND everyone who has a legitimate petition pending. The new BFG.
Nihn Lemai	Posted - 2006.08.31 22:24:00 - [28] Hey, whats with that attitude?! If the bubbles can pull someone out of warp at 100 km at one angle, but cant do it at all in another angle, while the item description says it works up to 5 kms... I sure get the feeling that something isnt quite all right. I to want to find an official response on this. If someone is using an item in a certain way so its producing an effect it wasnt intended to then it IS an exploit and exploits ARE petionable! --- I want instas gone... now
Rajon Kelper Omacron Militia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.31 22:41:00 - [29] Originally by: Nihn Lemai Hey, whats with that attitude?! If the bubbles can pull someone out of warp at 100 km at one angle, but cant do it at all in another angle, while the item description says it works up to 5 kms... I sure get the feeling that something isnt quite all right. I to want to find an official response on this. If someone is using an item in a certain way so its producing an effect it wasnt intended to then it IS an exploit and exploits ARE petionable! this isnt an exploit or a misuse of game mechanics, this is a Deployable Module and it works perfectly as it's supposed to. Mobile Warp Disruption bubbles not only keep people caught inside them from warping, they suck in people coming out of warp towards them, to the edge of their bubble. Example: Pilot 1 setups up a small mobile warp disruptor up on gate 1, 30km behind gate 1 and IN LINE with gate 2. Pilot 2 warps from gate 2 to gate 1 at 100kms, and drops out of warp not 100k in front of the gate, but 25kms past the gate. Why? Because he warped directly in line to a warp bubble, which sucked him in. Since the bubble's range is 5kms, he lands 5kms from the bubble generator (on the bubble's edge, but slightly inside the bubble). Pilot 1 can then wtfpwn* pilot 2 who was careless enough to jump to a gate without scanning for bubbles. Welcome to 0.0, remember to update your clone. *assuming pilot 1 is in a omgwtfbbqpwn ship and pilot 2 is in an ibis. Or something. --------------------------------------------------- "The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can, and keep moving."
Jeff Anderson	Posted - 2006.08.31 22:49:00 - [30] ok, got my petition response ... filing a bug report as requested by the GM's. Everyone who has been "sucked" into a bubble should also file a bug report so we can get it fixed.

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