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Kal Oman Delta Desperados	Posted - 2006.09.03 20:29:00 - [31] The best tip I can give you... Skip .4-.1 mining. Get yourself into an alliance and mine in 0.0. Its extreamly safe to mine in an alliance controlled area, even more safe than lowsec. The dues you will need to pay to be in that alliance are miniscule compared to the mins you will get.
Siege Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting	Posted - 2006.09.03 20:29:00 - [32] Higher reward comes with higher risk, if you want the good rocks you need to put in effort for them. That may involve a stabbed out mining cruiser, or what about having your corp/alliance have a mining operation to provide escorts? There are ways, but if you are solo they won't be as efficient as you can do in 0.9 space.
Starleena	Posted - 2006.09.03 20:36:00 - [33] Originally by: Carax I have just spent all day minining 0.4 sector for jaspet and had one of my alts ships blown out from under me in three shots and another one barricaded in a station so that it does not get shot at by the same jerks. When I started playing you could mine in low sec and survive as long as you stayed alert. Nowerdays the jerks have got big ships with great weapons and unless you are also in a tank you are dead in five seconds. It is killing the game, there should be a way to stop these killjoys, they can kill without any comeback. Alternatively create a new game for the boys who just want to shot everything and let them play with themselves. I feel your pain, but posting on here will just get you flamed. Theres nothing on here but people who just cant understand that not everyone likes to PvP.
Kage Getsu Lordless Unbrella Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.03 20:38:00 - [34] Human rats? Own a piece of the biggest scammer in EVE history!
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.09.03 20:39:00 - [35] Originally by: Starleena Theres nothing on here but people who just cant understand that not everyone likes to PvP. Actually, we can. We fully understand that not everyone wants to PvP. What we don't understand is what catastrophic misunderstanding on their part leads them to believe that they should be safe, despite their refusal to take the necessary precautions, in unsafe space, having clicked past the "OMG EBIL PIE-RATS CAN KILL YOU!" warning sign. Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected]) RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Carax Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.03 20:39:00 - [36] I am not sayng take all the risk out, it is just that as Lucio said a mining ship stands zero chance against a PVP set-up. I only use all three alts when I am insafe areas but I do use two in low sec. I have resisted joining anyone else corp because of my work I can only play sporadically, perhaps I will have to try joining one. "should my signature go here?"
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.09.03 20:41:00 - [37] Originally by: Carax I am not sayng take all the risk out, it is just that as Lucio said a mining ship stands zero chance against a PVP set-up. And yet, somehow, this is wrong? Tell me, how good is the PvP setup at mining? Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected]) RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
DeadProphet Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.03 20:42:00 - [38] you mean its dangerous in low security space? NO WAI!
Eilie Minmatar	Posted - 2006.09.03 20:46:00 - [39] LMAO! If you're mining (or ratting) in low sec, than you're already doing something very wrong! As everyone knows, the risk vs. reward for low sec is unbalanced and you can make more money while also being safer by mining (or ratting) in 0.0! Even mining veld in hi sec should make you more money than mining in low sec!
Kal Oman Delta Desperados	Posted - 2006.09.03 20:51:00 - [40] Edited by: Kal Oman on 03/09/2006 20:51:42 Eilie speaks the truth... You got Empire, than you got this narrow band of .4-.1, and finally this HUGE area of 0.0. PvP happens in .4- so where do you think the biggest concentration of PvP pirates like to hang? Go into the void and your whole perspective on EvE will change quickly.
Carax Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.03 20:56:00 - [41] So, off to 0.0 for me then . . . Oh and Verus Potestas, you do not die if your PvP can not mine, whereas I die because my miner can not PvP Spot the difference "should my signature go here?"
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.09.03 20:59:00 - [42] You mean that I fitted my ship for a purpose, combat, and sucked at mining. You fitted for mining, and sucked at combat. Well, if you suck at combat, what can you do? Well, I guess you could either avoid combat, or have people in combat ships guard you. But no, you can't do that, because... umm.... Wait, WHY can't you do that? Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected]) RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Zimroel	Posted - 2006.09.03 21:08:00 - [43] Originally by: Carax I could understand taking on a heavy assault ship or something else that could be a challenge but blowing up an indy, it's like popping a baloon. Remind us all where the "challenge" of mining is - seeing as you seem to like challenges. Ah yes - it's the player pirates. You appear to be trying to apply a double-standard - that player pirates should seek a challenge so that miners don't have one. I belive the word I'm looking for is hypocrite. Oh - and I'm NOT a pirate myself.
Ganeus Blancus Minmatar Binary Logistics Inc. The Imperial Order	Posted - 2006.09.03 21:09:00 - [44] Originally by: Kage Getsu Human rats? <3 Beakman's World
MadGaz Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.09.03 21:13:00 - [45] I feel your pain Corax, those 12 year old CS players are ruining this game!! We should be able to mine in peace forever until mega and zyd are worth 0.0001isk per unit! --------------------------- What can I put here without getting banned? Tell me you luv me, and it will all be okay - Immy Make me a sig and I will.
Carax Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.03 21:14:00 - [46] Zimroel, you do seem to have missed the point and then tried to score some cheap points, which is rather like the PvP bullies who love picking on miners. Perhaps you should be rat. "should my signature go here?"
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics	Posted - 2006.09.03 21:29:00 - [47] Originally by: Eilie LMAO! If you're mining (or ratting) in low sec, than you're already doing something very wrong! As everyone knows, the risk vs. reward for low sec is unbalanced and you can make more money while also being safer by mining (or ratting) in 0.0! Even mining veld in hi sec should make you more money than mining in low sec! Yep... Reference the posts i made last week on the low sec ore. Time you finished bringing your friends (which won't protect your jet cans, barges, or haulers anyway) You would be able to mine more minerals in high sec asking them to fit mining lasers instead. This is not the fault of highsec mining, it's the complete unbalance of the practice of mining in low sec with whats up for grabs and the available tactics of agressor. ______ Long ago one gorgeous night, we let the stars grow free. We let Zhuge do that once, he came back carrying a traffic cone, a forsale sign and three empty bottles of dutch lager. He also lost his Zimmer Frame... - Imaran
Zimroel	Posted - 2006.09.03 21:30:00 - [48] Originally by: Carax Zimroel, you do seem to have missed the point and then tried to score some cheap points, which is rather like the PvP bullies who love picking on miners. Perhaps you should be rat. What point did I miss? The post I quoted appeared to complaining that pirates attacking miners have low risk - yet totally ignoring the fact that if pirates DIDN'T attack miners, where would the risk for miners be? If people want to mine with zero risk then they can save themselves $15 a month by typing 1000000+1000000= into their calculator then pressing the = button every X minutes. Then just pretend the number on the calculator is ISK and voila - risk-free mining. I DO agree that some areas of PVP in Eve look imbalanced - but anything which expedites the risk-free creation of ISK is a bad move. So please - explain to me WHICH point it is I'm missing.
Carax Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.03 21:45:00 - [49] Zim, can you re-read your post again because now you are agreeing with me on the basic point, that Eve is too skewed towards human rats. As I have already stated I am not asking for risk free ISK I am asking for a bit more balance. No need to try and be smart. "should my signature go here?"
coldplasma	Posted - 2006.09.03 21:50:00 - [50] Edited by: coldplasma on 03/09/2006 21:51:51 Don't mine in low-sec, it really is dangerous. It's so busy and you don't know who's going to jump into system or who's friendly or not. There are pirates who'll gladly pop you and who are positive sec status. Solution? Join a 0.0 alliance, some of the systems around there have superb ore are quiet enough that maybe a few people will pass through every hour. If that system is in space controlled by your alliance, you are probably not going to see a hostile at all. Also, when someone DOES jump into the system, you instantly know whether they are friendly or not. The reward is also A LOT better, if you ever manage to get your hands on a hulk barge, with the proper skills and proper equipment, you could earn maybe 50million ISK in 1 hour. Just make sure you can tank the 0.0 rats. ____________________________ See you in 0.0 kids...
Arcterran Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.03 21:50:00 - [51] Originally by: Kage Getsu Human rats? A more fitting human rat
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.09.03 21:54:00 - [52] The OP has made many complaints about how what he has doing fails to defend him against pirates. What he fails to explain is why he refuses to change his strategy so he doesn't get owned so hard If you are just going to ignore anything which becomes a problem for you or your viewpoint, why do you post in a forum labelled General Discussion You seem unwilling to discuss any opposing view, you just want the game changed to suit your needs. Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected]) RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.09.03 21:55:00 - [53] miners need to be able to do at least some rudimentry PVP (jump clones have made this much easier) i guess some ppls mentalitiy is just not done for it
coldplasma	Posted - 2006.09.03 21:59:00 - [54] Originally by: Miss Overlord miners need to be able to do at least some rudimentry PVP (jump clones have made this much easier) i guess some ppls mentalitiy is just not done for it It's called "getting-another-person-to-help-guard-you-ffs" ____________________________ See you in 0.0 kids...
Shiraz Merlot Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.09.03 22:07:00 - [55] Originally by: Carax Zim, can you re-read your post again because now you are agreeing with me on the basic point, that Eve is too skewed towards human rats. Get some friends as a guard. This isn't a single-player game.
Carax Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.03 22:07:00 - [56] Verus Potestas - what do you expect me to do? I have posted a statement that i believe he game is too heavily weighted in favour of the PvP bullies against the miners. Some people have made constructive comments, for example I am now looking at the recruitment thread as joining a corp rather than having my own might be a way to get around the problem but it does not solve the problem, which some of the people who have posted here have also acknowledged. "should my signature go here?"
Siege Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting	Posted - 2006.09.03 22:32:00 - [57] For an industrial type, there are a lot of real benefits that joining a thriving alliance can offer you. One is the already mentioned escort pilots, but of even more use is that if you get with an alliance that controls their own 0.0 space it offers areas that are free of pirates for the most part. Yes, the possibility is still there, but you will see less of them and will have help available. Then you can also consider putting up your own POS to do moon harvesting. Yeah, they can be annoying as far as the logistics and the starting price is a bit high, but they do give a steady source of income that keeps running when you are asleep. And don't forget more access to ice as well. If there are a number of manufacturers in the alliance, it gives guaranteed customers for the minerals. Or if you are into manufacturing yourself, the combat pilots are a solid customer base as well. Get in close with them, and you can get some serious income. There is always a demand for T1 Frigates, Cruisers and even Battleships if you can produce them. You don't need to go T2 to make money producing, if you can find market needs that aren't being met. (for instance, Devoid region is really short on T1 projectile turrets, ammo, and Minmatar cruisers most of the time). And then there is the great intangible benefit.... people to talk to in chat or on a voice server, and that sure does break up a lot of the boredom of mining. If you are interested, my alt is in a fairly large alliance and I can check a few corps that always need mining/manufacturing types. Drop me a mail in game and I'll see what I can do.
wierchas noobhunter Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.09.03 22:40:00 - [58] yes u can leave game now and yes u can give me all your stuff ty Hey i get paid to be ebil - Xorus I don't - Imz0r
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.09.03 22:44:00 - [59] OK, I will explain what I wish that you do. Provide a structured and justified answer to each of these questions, taken in order from your original post: 1a) Why do you assume people are jerks (an insult to the real life character of the player), simply because they do not play the game like you, though they are playing exactly the same game, within the same guidlines as you? 1b) Do you think insulting them makes your arguments more convicing? 2) Why should you be able to mine in unsafe space in safety, without making sacrifices or commitments to aid your safety? 3a) How has "as long as you stayed alert" changed? Were you scanning constantly to see people approching you? Were you aligned? Were you fitting (urgh) WCS or ECM? Were you watching local for pirates? 3b) Have you even tried to defend yourself, or did you just come here to complain that Eve is broken? 4) What exactly is "without any comback" supposed to mean? You recieve sec hits for opening fire, and the victim of a one-sided attack gains killrights on the aggressor. He is flagged for 15minutes, during which he will be fired upon at stations or gates (giving a huge advantage to anyone hunting him), and can be attacked without penalty. If he takes enough sec hits, he loses access to much of space. The aggressor is also just as able to be attacked as you in low sec. 5) Do you realise that "it is killing the game" is fully subjective, and what is your opinion is not holy writ, nor is it apparently near the majority view? 6) Is piracy any less valid as a way of making ISK than mining or PvE? 7a) Why do you join a game where this is allowed, and even advertised as such (the original game box said "pirate" as one of the listed professions, though admittedly, it also says bounty hunter, so that could be called into question), and then demand that it is changed to suit your needs, and another game is made for "the boys who just want to shot everything and let them play with themselves"? That game exists, it is called Eve Online, and you joined it. There are plenty of games which are totally carebear (not intended as abuse) focussed out there, yet you joined Eve Online, possibly the harshest game out there. 7b) What gives you the right to demand that the game you chose, despite it being a piratey game, be made your carebear heaven, even though there are many games out there which already fit your mould, and you have disdained them? Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected]) RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Nebuli Caldari Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.09.03 22:51:00 - [60] Originally by: Starleena Originally by: Carax I have just spent all day minining 0.4 sector for jaspet and had one of my alts ships blown out from under me in three shots and another one barricaded in a station so that it does not get shot at by the same jerks. When I started playing you could mine in low sec and survive as long as you stayed alert. Nowerdays the jerks have got big ships with great weapons and unless you are also in a tank you are dead in five seconds. It is killing the game, there should be a way to stop these killjoys, they can kill without any comeback. Alternatively create a new game for the boys who just want to shot everything and let them play with themselves. I feel your pain, but posting on here will just get you flamed. Theres nothing on here but people who just cant understand that not everyone likes to PvP. If you dont like to pvp dont go into low sec, its fairly simple. EVE is a PVP game, the entire game is designed around PVP, maybe youre in the wrong game? CEO - Art of War

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