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Valandil II
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Posted - 2003.12.05 23:28:00 -
[211]
Yes, I definitely like where this thread is going. Hopefully someone who can do something about it reads it.
I like the focused damage as well, but I think that would take a lot of programming into the game - I don't think it supports something like that to be implemented easily. I'd love to see that in the game though.
I like the swarm formation idea as well. Probably added agility, evasiveness and the like. Also, I liked Veskrashen's point 4 as well. There's a logical limit to a frigate mounting bigger and bigger modules, but there's nothing stopping a BS from mounting small modules. That can easily be fixed. Or tweaked - I'm sure it exists on some level already (I don't know, I don't own a BS).
I want to suggest something totally new, and I don't know how well you guys will take it. All of the ships have a crew, right? But it's not used in the game (like planets, *cough* *cough*). Wouldn't it be cool, if when, say a BS took damage, crew would die off? It would take time at a station for the ship to repopulate it's crew. Also, if we go along with the precision targetting idea (which I have to say again I think is awesome, but could be tricky to do), then certain areas of the ship, not just modules, can be damaged, for instance an engineering bay....you can take it from there :)
Anyway, I'll think of some more stuff later.
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Kardim
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Posted - 2003.12.06 00:03:00 -
[212]
not to be negative agains alot of posters but increasing the cost of bs's wont make them less popular. ppl will just mine a day longer or whatever. either frigates need a bump and a specialization or bs's need to be downgraded or specialized. period (: this will solve the problem... the hard part is exactly how to do that most ideas in here about changes would do it tho...
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SteelFist
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Posted - 2003.12.07 15:21:00 -
[213]
bump
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Flyyn
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Posted - 2003.12.08 02:28:00 -
[214]
I have made many a run on Amarr ships in other then .5 or lower space...I manage to make it out sometimes...Rifters are good for that cheap and fast..kestrals are better...Four M-12 Launchers...4 cruise or eight torps...four afterburners...and two overdrives...with skills trained you can get this puppy going to 1000m/s+. Dont aim for him but close to him hit the ABs soon as he is in range..target and fire...auto with torps...if your lucky he has head up arse and you can do some damage and use this ship again for another run...maybe get away from concord too. If you have five of these going in you can scare the crap out of him. Ten going in he is dead...even his PoD will get it by the splash damage.
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Paw Sandberg
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Posted - 2003.12.08 16:31:00 -
[215]
the splash damege in the pod is a real problem
why not make the pods invuneble for x seconds after the ship blows up
you can do it when we leave a station and when we are done warping
Thank You
Paw Sandberg
for all your BPC needs see
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=55706&page=1
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Ruffles
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Posted - 2004.01.07 13:33:00 -
[216]
Well the pod is like the ejector seat isn't it? It should be designed to kick you from the area of danger.
I agree, perhaps a short duration immunity timer on the pod would be nice, or prevent pods being immobilized. Nothing you can do in an immobilized pod.
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Ruffles
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Posted - 2004.01.07 16:26:00 -
[217]
From the most recent CSM log on evegate:
CSM Chat Log
 Quote:
MOOstradamus > Q: (various) What is going on currently with the balancing of Missile volumes & Launcher requirements? What's the overall plan behind this? (Please explain for each class of ship and race) Also there are rumours of a posible 'ammo bay' or even 'auto-reloading ammo hi-slot module' ... any comments ??
Hellmar > over to tombzor
TomB > Missile volume will not go to Tranquility like they are currently on the test server, I will start a threat on it later on "Ships & Modules" forum
TomB > Amount of big missiles that battleships can carry will not get nerfed
TomB > But we are removing the feature for frigates to be able to shoot cruise missiles for sure
Pann > threat = thread - We don't want people freaking out over that typo. heh
/emote sigh
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Tsunari
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Posted - 2004.01.08 01:28:00 -
[218]
Sign.. do check the link on my sig.
~Tsunari |
Paw Sandberg
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Posted - 2004.01.16 18:43:00 -
[219]
i guess this willnever change 
Thank You
Paw Sandberg
for all your BPC needs see
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=55706&page=1
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Asharee Intrefer
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Posted - 2004.01.16 20:36:00 -
[220]
I havn't seen this thread before, and I don't have to read all the pages at the moment... but I've seen advanced gunnery skills for all small weapon types listed in skill databases, and maybe five more levels improving the damage of small weapons can make frigates more interesting when those skills go live.
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Aura Nefules
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Posted - 2004.01.17 08:14:00 -
[221]
I agree, i love frigs.i think frigs are balanced in the game already though.say you had a large corp and a large corp go to war...and these large corps have mainly newer players.if they get a mixture of frigs,cruisers,and battleships, you will have quite an excelent battle.while the Battleships are focussing in on the larger threats(such as other battleships)you can have other frigs and cruisers break the lines, having support and creating an offence-defence type deally.
I pilot a battleship at the momment, but i had the most fun in eve when i flew my punisher around and faught random sanshas.at the momment, i use frigs for travel and corp frig sparring.
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I'm hot, send me your money. |
Asharee Intrefer
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Posted - 2004.01.17 13:08:00 -
[222]
I had a run-in with two gate camping Apocs in my frigate a few minutes ago... didn't have much of a chance...  But that was a calculated loss. Frigates are cheap, so I use them whenever my agent sends me on missions to 0.4 or lower, and the cost of the frig and the clone was still less than the mission reward.
Speaking about fun and battleships... is it really fun to take out a frigate in a Apoc? I can't see much of a challenge in that, anyway.
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Paw Sandberg
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Posted - 2004.01.18 02:51:00 -
[223]
Quote:
I had a run-in with two gate camping Apocs in my frigate a few minutes ago... didn't have much of a chance... But that was a calculated loss. Frigates are cheap, so I use them whenever my agent sends me on missions to 0.4 or lower, and the cost of the frig and the clone was still less than the mission reward.
Speaking about fun and battleships... is it really fun to take out a frigate in a Apoc? I can't see much of a challenge in that, anyway.
i had that happen in a shuttle 
Thank You
Paw Sandberg
for all your BPC needs see
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=55706&page=1
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Ribbo
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Posted - 2004.01.19 13:22:00 -
[224]
2 things i would like to see added to change the trend
1. miner hardpoints.. - sorry.. but when the great innovators the caldarians made a superior "combat frigate" called a "merlin" they surely didnt expect to see it with 2/3 miner II's on mining away in belts!! surely that's what they made a bantem for! likewise with a moa.. it's like trying to plug yer telly into yer computer because "it's got a bigger screen" . Races made Support Vessels for mining, not EW vessels, Combat or industrial vessels.
2. an additional targetting system, gained through training and maybe a tech level item item, this additional system will be able to be bolted on crafts and will allow ships to target specific points of the craft (slots).. for example each slot would have a resistance to certain weapons/types added and once this targetting system has been fitted to a ship and you have the nessecary skills, you can choose what to target on the ship your persuing (for example you can choose to target a specific slot that the targetted ship has got fitted. i think that although doing many functions that EW does it would make things more intresting for frigates, who can swarm a BS and actually choose what damage to do.
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Vel Kyri
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Posted - 2004.01.19 13:31:00 -
[225]
OK.
that miner hardpoint - thats an oldie, but i still like it. make ships made for mining useful again, and stop the top of the line combat vessels turning into streetcleaning ships.
frigates do have a use, but atm its mainly kestrels and other missile ships which are being used - why.. because in numbers these really hreaten battleships.
as should be.
pity that the other race frigates are becoming lonely - especially amarr! 
some way of making frigate weapons penetrate more perhaps? (to simulate picking out weakspots)
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Onan
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Posted - 2004.01.23 19:44:00 -
[226]
Very interesting ideas regarding "quote" Weapon class vs object size. This is what Frigates need to suvive in Fleet Battles
Ships and Moduals Thread
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DarkStar251
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Posted - 2004.03.05 02:39:00 -
[227]
The point of 'oh I cant pvp cause concord protects people' was kinda disproven by Zombie in yulai methinks.
Bships and cruisers should be slowed down, simple. If a Bship was a lumbering hulk that moved at 50m/sec to a frigs 300, then people would use cruisers and frigs for general duties and bships for defense of more static points (this would have more effect in Shiva where people would use Bships to defend their new installations)
Bships should not just have '8 large turret mounts', but rather 4 large, 2 medium and 2 small or something, the large should have a pathetic tracking speed, and frigates should have a circular approach option to take advatage of this, while the bship mounts a few smaller weapons for frigate defense.
It should still take 10 or more frigates to take out a bship (probably with 5 or more losses) but mixed fleets of say, 1 titan (maybe frigs could dock at titans?) 3 bships, 6 cruisers and 12 frigates should be FAR more effective than a load of bships/titans.
However this would require alot of the silly 5 person corps getting together, EVE in my opinion has far too many small corporations (the list probably extends to thousands) and it should be a game of mid-large corporations.
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Arkasha Kataya
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Posted - 2004.03.05 05:02:00 -
[228]
Love miner hardpoints, should be on mining ships, not on battleships. Indy's should be able to put miners in thier high slots, Apocs no miners in thiers. The future Bismark should not be a miner. Love needing small turrets to track frigs, sm/med for cruisers and lg for strategic targets and battleships. Battleships don't fire main guns at small torpedo boats or aircraft, why, they won't hit them, ( I dont care how many tracking/sensor upgrades you have), unless they are standing still. They have small guns and missiles for that. Missiles can be used against all targets so give BS a better missile or something to compensate for having to mount small guns to take care of fast moving frigs, or hey run with frigs to take out the oppositions frigs. Teamwork, strategy, and good force makeup = success. Also like critical hits taking out modules, now that would add some realism. You don't go down to 50% structure without some systems going off line. (How many times was Enterprise not able to go into warp or use the transporter for all you trekkies out there?). Where is the "submarine" ship. NO real guns, not very tough, but it's a sneaky SOB that mounts a piece of armament that can kill a BS in a few shots. That would be neat.
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Rodge
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Posted - 2004.03.05 13:31:00 -
[229]
Edited by: Rodge on 05/03/2004 13:34:53
The idea of stealth for frigates was a good one.
In naval warfare, no side ever sent in a force completely based of battleships.
(I appreciate that the megacorps we have now have so much cash they can outfit an army of battleships, but that isn't the point.)
Battleships had no defence against smaller craft they couldn't see, ie submarines.
If 10 battleships put to sea against 10 subs, the result would be 10 dead battleships. 10 destroyers against 10 battleships meant 10 dead destroyers. 10 destroyers against 10 subs meant the subs would be in trouble. The fleet needed the smaller support craft, like destroyers, to take on the craft that the battleships couldn't attack.
Like everyone else here, I agree that a battleship is just too multifunctional. A battleship should be able to hit another battleship at a huge range, simply because the other ship couldn't possibly get out of the way quickly enough and it was a large target. But a battleship would never be able to hit some smaller ship with it's larger guns except by pure chance. A force of frigates that catches a battleship on it's own should be able to win the battle.
A fleet, based around a few battleships with numerous types of support craft is obviously the ideal. But CCP will need to change the rules a bit to make this viable which will severely annoy all the carebears who like to patrol in their huge battleship convoys.
And absolutely, battleships should be slowed down! They're meant to be behemoths in space that lumber along with poor manoeuvring and any frigate should certainly move at least 4 times as fast.
[ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
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Neko Makai
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Posted - 2004.03.05 15:36:00 -
[230]
I love the miner idea, i mean WTF. Why do miners have a ship of Mass destruction killing roids. Did Eve intend to be this way? And yay we have frig miners, where the hell are the damn bigger miners or indy miners, oh wait they are called cruisers and BS. An easy way to solve this is to put ships computers to be unable to handle the massive CPU and cap that miners need. BUT with a special ship with right equipment (miner ship) it can easily reduce this. To prevent another race to the biggest and badist miner, we can also set size for big miners. Say for ex, big miners can extract large amounts from roids, but due to its large and careless computers, there is lots of wasteage. Profitable for veld, un profitable for bistot. Smaller miners are the dimond hunters of the pack, they get full enffiency but mine at a slower rate.
Maybe that was off topic, but concerning the unbalance, I dont think eve is a PvP game OR a trade skill game. There is no vehicles pertaining trade skills, and there is too much of an unbalance to make it a fun pvp game. PPl say OHH its an RPG not a RTS or a FPS, but if this is an RPG, where is the damn escalator leveling, or the mass of diverse NPCs, all these guys look like the same thing sept a lil stonger each time. I would prefer a more RTS eve then a RPG eve, or a mixture if u want to argue. Lets get Body shots in this game, lets have miner's actually have MINERs. lets have traders have fast cargo haulers. Lets have pirates have pirate type ships. and one more arguement, Why is everyship pretty much alike, all the resistances are similar, only thing that is different is SOME race benifits, and the amount of slots. not like they have extreme cap or shjislds
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Maaien Tekern
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Posted - 2004.03.05 16:38:00 -
[231]
Quote:
Edited by: Rodge on 05/03/2004 13:34:53
The idea of stealth for frigates was a good one.
In naval warfare, no side ever sent in a force completely based of battleships.
(I appreciate that the megacorps we have now have so much cash they can outfit an army of battleships, but that isn't the point.)
Battleships had no defence against smaller craft they couldn't see, ie submarines.
If 10 battleships put to sea against 10 subs, the result would be 10 dead battleships. 10 destroyers against 10 battleships meant 10 dead destroyers. 10 destroyers against 10 subs meant the subs would be in trouble. The fleet needed the smaller support craft, like destroyers, to take on the craft that the battleships couldn't attack.
Precisely. Excellent analogy. I pray that this thread is read by the Crowd Controllers....
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Soareen
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Posted - 2004.03.05 18:51:00 -
[232]
why not making a special mining shipclass , with big cargo and a lot of turret ( equipable with miner II :) ) .
If mining is less a boring thing , and lot much efficiency , Ship will be cheaper and we'll have time and money to make more pvp .
(and go hunting the heavy cargo miner :) )
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Latiente Baxudov
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Posted - 2004.03.05 23:40:00 -
[233]
Hmm.. i have an idea... if you are all so bothered by ppl mining with BATTLEships (i empasize the BATTLE part in the name with a purpose ... why not put a negative bonus on its mining abilites and really create a mining only ship wich has negative bonuses on weapons and some + bonuses on mining stuff.. like cap recharge or maybe even a small yield bonus... i bet miners would go nuts about those ships 
but... ill leave it to te professionals to think out a way.. about the frigates.. once i got my cruiser.. i never sat in a frigate again except a couple of times when i had to go buy another cruiser or maybe tried a frig fight ... otherwise frigs suck in my opinion i waste them with my scorp any day (except if they use EW.... im dead in that case... but shhhh dont tell anyone  )
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Shintoko Akahoshi
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Posted - 2004.03.06 17:33:00 -
[234]
Anyone who thinks that frigates have no place in Eve, or that they are awful ships for rookies, is a fool. When I first started playing, I flew frigates because they were all I could afford. They were fun, but limited (this was back in July). As soon as I could, I switched to cruisers. I hated how slow and unresponsive cruisers were, but I figured I was stuck with them because at the time a frigate just couldn't cut it in combat.
When they started testing the frigate MWD on Chaos, though, I started playing around with frigates again and haven't looked back. I'm now almost exclusively a frigate pilot (I do keep one cruiser around for certain purposes, plus a couple of indies to move things). Anyone who thinks that frigates are still useless in combat needs to watch frigates attacking larger ships some time. Anyone who thinks that frigates don't have a speed advantage over larger ships needs to see a decent frigate pilot outrunning missiles and evading turret fire. Anyone who thinks that frigates suck just needs to open their eyes and take a fresh look at the things and see them for what they can do, not what they cost.
There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense |
Vel Kyri
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Posted - 2004.03.08 07:28:00 -
[235]
There have indeed been improvements in frigates :)
i have to get back and really try them out again :)
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Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2004.03.08 09:41:00 -
[236]
CCP need to make it so that the SIZE of the vessel make a difference in hit probability.
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kingelmo
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Posted - 2004.03.08 13:16:00 -
[237]
Edited by: kingelmo on 08/03/2004 13:46:02
I totally agree with frigs n cruz needing a purpose. Just think of the starwars films. 1 stardestroyer with corvette's and frigate support, then tonnes of fighters. In Eve it should be 1 BS, a few cruisers, and alot of frigs.
Also get rid of the police!! Let corps defend them selfs! And let corps own stations! This would open up a whole new market! If corps ran their own stations it would open up many more jobs for people to play. And the market would then become very competitive and corps would be encouraged to sabatarge and raid each other!
This goes against what i said in a previous post, but players being able to control their ships using a joystick, dog fighting if you will, would make frigates play a much more vital role. Also making it so you can crash into Roids and stations etc. This way mass fights could take place in astroid belts, and the frigs would have the advantage of being able to dart behind roids where as big ships wud smash into them.
Would be very fun 
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Grimr
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Posted - 2004.03.08 17:47:00 -
[238]
right, you are just *****ing because you ran out of ammo the other day while trying to take our station  4 frigs can take down a cruiser with ease and you can buy more than 14 frigs for the prize of a cruiser, same with cruiser and battleships.
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Grimr
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Posted - 2004.03.08 17:55:00 -
[239]
you can take down a bs with frigs. jsut need to have a supply of them close by, you could lose alot of frigs but never more than maby 3-4 mill worth of frigs and 3 mill for 100 mill aint bad
Thats really cheaper than doing it in another bs as then you are endangering the loss of 100 million or in cruisers you could lose 14-20 mill
so frig be the best if you look at it that way
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Grimr
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Posted - 2004.03.08 18:09:00 -
[240]
And about blockades, you can get through any bs blockade in any frig but not in a battleship, there you have a purpose.
frigates are fast and can hold some ammount of cargo so you could haul some minerals or bp's over long distances for short time
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