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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.09.05 22:10:00 -
[1]
First off, I understand some people enjoy gate ganking/camping, this is ment for people who want something closer to real pvp.
Problem: Currently in EVE pvp can only occur in destinations areas due to the fact warping is not interactive state of play, thus all pvp ends up being at places people warp to or from, and due to the fact warping = get away, players are forced to MOB other players inorder to engage and have a chance at killing players before they warp out, so either you need extreme dps or a tackler which means you have to outnumber people to win which is lame imho.
Solution: Creating new content in systems that consists of a large (say 5000square km) nowarp/slow warp areas that contain desirable content. Example a chain of roid fields, that have valuable compact ore, or high bounty rats, which players would need to manually pilot thier ship to instead of warp from belt to belt, you fly from belt to belt and the belts might be 350-500km apart. You can onyl warp to the edge, of this area then pilot in some 350-500km to reach the first edge of the content, and to leave you have something like a 2min warp initiation ( RP the delay to magnetic fields, or course plotting due to all the belts etc..) Most likely you will need to RP off being able to target from the inside out and vice versa prolly something like a 20km cushion on the border. you could even have contested complexes inside which corps could fight over.
Now you have an area where players will go to make ISK either to rat or to have mining ops. Due to longer travel times within this slow warp zone the rats will need a little higher bounty, and the ore will need to be compact so that you don;t require frequent runs to dump at stations.
Now suddenly the dynamics of pvp have changed. You no longer need local for protection in these systems, you can see your enemies warping to the edge of the area and you have time to prepare for battle or call reinforcements, or even flee if you act fast. Your enemies will have to pilot thier ships to approach you and engage, YOU can actually defend your miners or cargo ships by flying out to engage your enemies before they reach your miners etc... something not currently possible, as they just warp in target those ships blow em up and wapr out rinse repeat.
Real tactical layers have been added to combat now, and attackers are put at risk ( uh uh another fleet just showed up behind us and we are 350km in! what do we do!, or we are in range! oh oh hey 5 battleships just uncloaked.......) No more of the lame all warp in pick a target incinerate it and warp out rince repeat fleet battles.
True new content could finally be added to EVE, but more importantly it lays the foundation for the change EVE needs to alter the focus of battles from simple warp in shot warp out style we currently have to actual battles, where once you get in knee deep your in knee deep. Organization and fleet structure would play a big role. You can also build in new mods for support ships like gang speed enhancers, gang shield hardeners etc.
This is am important step to the final goal of not only great pvp, but true 0.0 soveriegnty, as moons and POS can be placed in these types of zones allowing true defense of a base, and the building of a true 0.0 economy and factions so you can have commerce since you can defend your station properly. A full shifting of focus from gate camping to TERRITORY defense/control can occur.
The final nail in the coffin would be adding line of sight to weapons so that you could use a roid as a defense lets say or another structure including ships, now formations come into play also, and we have the enviroment where piloting a ship truly matters on the battlefield.
Feedback?
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Urdatorn
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Posted - 2006.09.05 22:22:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
Problem: Currently in EVE pvp can only occur in destinations areas due to the fact warping is not interactive state of play, thus all pvp ends up being at places people warp to or from, and due to the fact warping = get away, players are forced to MOB other players inorder to engage and have a chance at killing players before they warp out, so either you need extreme dps or a tackler which means you have to outnumber people to win which is lame imho.
Feedback?
No, it's forcing people to work together, and the reason for this is becous eve is a MMO :p
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Kitchi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.09.05 22:22:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Kitchi on 05/09/2006 22:22:25
Analysis: Post contains idea that takes away I-WIN button piracy.
Suggested action for OP: Get on your flame-retardant suit fast.
Probabilities:
Multi-page flame-fest of I-WIN button pirates vs. statistically correct novel writers: 42%
Single page, limited approval and heavy flame from Maya: 54%
Multi-page, inteligent discussion of concept viability: 3%
CCP implimentation factor: 0.023%
Overall quality of idea: 73%
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"Somebody sent us up the bomb"
"We get signal"
"What"
"Main screen turn on"
"5m or i pod u, lol"
"What you say"
"wtf omg lag" |
Kaomi Zorbaz
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Posted - 2006.09.05 22:31:00 -
[4]
I was reading over the lore of EVE and their jump drive technology. They mention there will be future generations of jump drives. I dont see why we cant keep the current gate system. But add the ability to skill up and equip every ship with a jump drive and let people warp across the universe without gates. Use the same limitations the capital ships use in terms of fuel. This would allow for noobs or prople traveling short distances to use the gate system, but people who need to travel further or more free the ability to set a destination and go.
This game is supposed to be about space but you are constricted to a series of jump gates that makes it feel less than "open". Enhance probe skills to allow for people to send probes systems away to scout for prey.
The nice thing about this is it will add an enhancement to the market situation as demand for fuel will greatly increase.
/shrug
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Auldare
Soundless Storm
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Posted - 2006.09.05 22:32:00 -
[5]
This kinda thing would really liven things up 
too tired to comment more, need bed..... but i do like it
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Auraurious
Celtic Anarchy
Black Reign Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.05 22:34:00 -
[6]
I like!
Signed!
Now just to wait and see if it stands up to maya poking holes...
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.09.05 22:35:00 -
[7]
"No, it's forcing people to work together, and the reason for this is becous eve is a MMO :p"
No idea why you would think anything in my suggestion doesnt incorperate even more reason and rewards for working together, but yes you're correct, they are working together but in the msot simplestic and weakest manner. I mean 5 people working together to kill 1 player in most likely an inferior ship to any one of them in the first place is not exactly the backbone of MMO cooperation. Right now alot of functions intended by developers like escorting are just not feasible by game mechanics because EVE PVP is quite simply and on/off function of warping, fundamental problem pretty much acknowledged by anyone and everyone regardless if you like camping gates or not ( which is why they are mindlessly camping a gate to start with  .
What my post is about is even more cooperation and opening up the permuations of PVP besides hey me and my 4 friends will sit at this gate perfectly set up to annilate any 1-2 ships than warp blindly in, while eye balling local so that if too many new names pop up we warp out to safety and wait for the local list to clear out....
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Major Stormer
Caldari
Demon Womb
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.05 22:39:00 -
[8]
/signed.
i would pay more money if this was in :)
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0.01 ISK to the first mod that writes in my sig! :D
Pay cash value in cookies plskthx - Immy
Oh man thats gonna be a lot of cookies.
Make them chocolate chip aswell - Xorus
I'll give ya a goat for them cookies!-Tirg |
Usotsuki
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Posted - 2006.09.05 22:48:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Usotsuki on 05/09/2006 22:49:19
/signed
And might i suggest for a nowarp zone, procedurally generated asteroid belts that actually are what their name implies: asteroid belts that go all the way around a star.
I'll never forget the first time i warped to an asteroid field and found a few clumps of rock instead of the epic looking belt of thousands/millions of asteroids that i expected.
It was heartbreaking. /me crys
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Jerick Ludhowe
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
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Posted - 2006.09.05 23:08:00 -
[10]
I like the general idea of it however I think that combat as a whole would need to be completely reballanced. I do agree that the game does not feel free form enough, everything is from point a to point b with small engagments usually happening within a 50km area from warp in.
The problem I see with the system that you have proposed is that there is no place for short range ships in EVE after such a change. If Line of Sight was implemented as you suggest with plenty of objects to hide behind then I can see such a system working however I doubt that LOS will be happening anytime in the forseable future.
I'd love to see this game have a more hands on free form feel to it however I really don't think it will be happening anytime soon sad to say.
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Major Stormer
Caldari
Demon Womb
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.05 23:30:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Major Stormer on 05/09/2006 23:30:22
Intresting thing about LOS is that you cannot return fire while behind something. So smart players will use to grab that needed armor rep cycle or reload etc.
with LOS i think fights will generally last longer and be more intresting overall. which is of course great :)
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0.01 ISK to the first mod that writes in my sig! :D
Pay cash value in cookies plskthx - Immy
Oh man thats gonna be a lot of cookies.
Make them chocolate chip aswell - Xorus
I'll give ya a goat for them cookies!-Tirg |
Attractive Spokesmodel
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.09.05 23:58:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Usotsuki
Edited by: Usotsuki on 05/09/2006 22:49:19
/signed
I'll never forget the first time i warped to an asteroid field and found a few clumps of rock instead of the epic looking belt of thousands/millions of asteroids that i expected.
It was heartbreaking. /me crys
But even our own asteroid belt in the Solar System is empty. The actual odds of seeing an asteroid in the asteroid belt are pretty slim.
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Usotsuki
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Posted - 2006.09.06 00:00:00 -
[13]
Yes but after watching sci fi movies for the last two decades, the concept of a dense asteroid field has been drilled into my fragile little skullful of mush....
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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.09.06 00:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
First off, I understand some people enjoy gate ganking/camping, this is ment for people who want something closer to real pvp.
Problem: Currently in EVE pvp can only occur in destinations areas due to the fact warping is not interactive state of play, thus all pvp ends up being at places people warp to or from, and due to the fact warping = get away, players are forced to MOB other players inorder to engage and have a chance at killing players before they warp out, so either you need extreme dps or a tackler which means you have to outnumber people to win which is lame imho.
I don't think many truly enjoy ganking / camping. After you have gone 1v1 a few dozen times only to see a fleet of his mates all drop out of warp around you, you start making sure you have back-up around. As for gate camps, when you need to defeat up to 8 WCS and still have the hurt to stop the ship as well as lose a few tacklers without losing the target you do rapidly end up with a growing gang.
Par for the course I'm afraid, but tactics you will have to use or they will be used against you.
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
Solution: Creating new content in systems that consists of a large (say 5000square km) nowarp/slow warp areas that contain desirable content. Example a chain of roid fields, that have valuable compact ore, or high bounty rats, which players would need to manually pilot thier ship to instead of warp from belt to belt, you fly from belt to belt and the belts might be 350-500km apart. You can onyl warp to the edge, of this area then pilot in some 350-500km to reach the first edge of the content, and to leave you have something like a 2min warp initiation ( RP the delay to magnetic fields, or course plotting due to all the belts etc..) Most likely you will need to RP off being able to target from the inside out and vice versa prolly something like a 20km cushion on the border. you could even have contested complexes inside which corps could fight over.
...Real tactical layers have been added to combat now, and attackers are put at risk ( uh uh another fleet just showed up behind us and we are 350km in! what do we do!, or we are in range! oh oh hey 5 battleships just uncloaked.......) No more of the lame all warp in pick a target incinerate it and warp out rince repeat fleet battles.
...
I like this, could use some tweaks but it sounds good. Like deadspace without gates and you can't warp out of it. Go to the ideas forum and submit this as a tactical environment suggestion (something in development at the moment). Some kind of warp disrupting nebula, maybe with gas that can be harvested for boosters as well as conventional 'roids.
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
...POS can be placed in these types of zones allowing true defense of a base, and the building of a true 0.0 economy and factions so you can have commerce since you can defend your station properly. A full shifting of focus from gate camping to TERRITORY defense/control can occur.
POSs are very defenceable as it is. I think a deathstar POS in a tactical area like that would be overkill. Regional defence is multi-layered and gate camps / patrols are only the outmost layer. There are also other defence systems / outpost upgrades on the drawing board as well. The 0.0 economy is pretty good these days.
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
The final nail in the coffin would be adding line of sight to weapons...
Would be nice but it's not there for technical reasons. It used to be in but caused massive lag due to the huge amount of data needed to calculate LoS for every object including laser beams. Now we have a hit/miss dice roll with modifiers and the graphics are just for show.
>> RECRUITING << |
Praetor
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Posted - 2006.09.06 00:26:00 -
[15]
The OP's idea isnt bad at all, could use soem tweakign in a few areas, but overall a very sound idea.
/signed
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Auraurious
Celtic Anarchy
Black Reign Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.06 02:01:00 -
[16]
One other thing I would like to see here is a zone where no warpout whatsoever is possible. Possibly farther in where there are better rewards.
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Blind Man
Caldari
Angel Deep Corporation
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Posted - 2006.09.06 02:11:00 -
[17]
meh, more isk easily accessible = bad.. just need to focus on getting fights away from gates/station/pos and get them into interactive enviroments
SignatureTemporarily Out Of Order |
res0nance
Blind Vengeance
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Posted - 2006.09.06 02:17:00 -
[18]
/signed as long as it was well balanced (nerfed eh ccp).
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Lala Ru
Gallente
Quasar Industries
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Posted - 2006.09.06 02:23:00 -
[19]
I have my own idea about being able to intercept ships in warp, but this is also a good idea. Instead of having many tine asteriod belts, have several huge asteroid belts / gas clouds / whatever that are large tactical combat zones.
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Kage Getsu
Lordless
Unbrella Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.06 02:24:00 -
[20]
I'd love the ability to hide behind objects. Stations are huge after the resizing during Cold War, so it would be awesome if the fights at stations were a bit more dynamic.
Own a piece of the biggest scammer in EVE history! |
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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.09.06 07:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lala Ru
I have my own idea about being able to intercept ships in warp...
Interdictors do this, You just need to drop the sphere before the warp tunnel is created.
>> RECRUITING << |
Rina Shanu
Peace Loving Criminals
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Posted - 2006.09.06 07:19:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Solution: Creating new content in systems that consists of a large (say 5000square km) nowarp/slow warp areas that contain desirable content. Example a chain of roid fields, that have valuable compact ore, or high bounty rats, which players would need to manually pilot thier ship to instead of warp from belt to belt, you fly from belt to belt and the belts might be 350-500km apart. You can onyl warp to the edge, of this area then pilot in some 350-500km to reach the first edge of the content, and to leave you have something like a 2min warp initiation ( RP the delay to magnetic fields, or course plotting due to all the belts etc..) Most likely you will need to RP off being able to target from the inside out and vice versa prolly something like a 20km cushion on the border. you could even have contested complexes inside which corps could fight over.
...Real tactical layers have been added to combat now, and attackers are put at risk ( uh uh another fleet just showed up behind us and we are 350km in! what do we do!, or we are in range! oh oh hey 5 battleships just uncloaked.......) No more of the lame all warp in pick a target incinerate it and warp out rince repeat fleet battles.
...
I like this one very much. You need to submit this for ideras and we need to support you with it.
I really like it.
RECRUITMENT
this ok dear? |
Noluck Ned
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.06 07:51:00 -
[23]
I like it
Originally by: Posidrive
So technically being a pirate is't quite as easy as I thought after reading this guide.
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Sivlan
Amarr
Purify
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Posted - 2006.09.06 08:36:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kitchi
Edited by: Kitchi on 05/09/2006 22:22:25
Analysis: Post contains idea that takes away I-WIN button piracy.
Suggested action for OP: Get on your flame-retardant suit fast.
Probabilities:
Multi-page flame-fest of I-WIN button pirates vs. statistically correct novel writers: 42%
Single page, limited approval and heavy flame from Maya: 54%
Multi-page, inteligent discussion of concept viability: 3%
CCP implimentation factor: 0.023%
Overall quality of idea: 73%
Anyone ever played the (underratted, imho) game Star Control 3?
When I read this post it brought to mind the Daktaklakpak. Those crazy machine guys that talked in "future robot talk" dialect.
Website |
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.06 08:44:00 -
[25]
Bad idea. You assume an alliance only controls 1 system?
Lets say we have an alliance with 10 systems that are worth ratting/mining in. An attacker can choose any of those 10 systems to attack in, and all a defender can do is either spread out and be destroyed in piecemeal fashion, or bunch up and abandon half the systems. Unless of course you leave the current gate system in as well, but then people would still camp gates.
0.0 Alliances are like nations. Nations have borders, its a defining feature, so as to being able to defend its citizens against attack before the enemies actually reach the citizens.
Secondly, it reduces PvP to gunning down opposing battleships. No more interdiction of supplies? How can you stop people from refueling POSses, venturing deep into your sovereign space?
The game has a certain balance currently. Attackers decide when they attack, defenders have the advantage of being able to choose a gate to fight off an attack on their terms if they are organised enough.
The system functions, no need to change it. As for lowsec gatecampers, why don't you find some friends and do something about them?
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Thut'ankh Amon
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.09.06 09:23:00 -
[26]
good idea
/signed
but one thing - increase the speed of ships would seem nessesary with such big playgrounds :) - i dont know how about you but im not very keen on having to fly my blasterthron 300km to target at lightning speed of 180m/s (yes mwd could bring that to 1200-300m/s ish but by the time you cover 2/3 of distance you would be out of cap charges and it would still take you aprox 200 seconds to do it, in other words it would promote extream long range setups for fighting in belts or defending them.
There can be only one Amon
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Misses Gap
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Posted - 2006.09.06 11:02:00 -
[27]
This is one of the first good concepts that will help against the constant degredation of Eve's PvP fields.
It is indeed a terrible drag to have 60 % of PvP at gates, 30 % at stations/POS , 8 % at asteroid belts and the remaining 2 % at random stellar objects a fleeing prey warps to.
Its boring, its over too fast and its terrible hard to find someone to hunt that way either ;)
Maybe the OP's solution will indeed reduce Blobbing as well.
Totally for it and similar solutions - Space on Rails aint the way to go.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.06 11:06:00 -
[28]
Maybe reducing blobbing is only the start of making Eve pvp even better. I personally think you should be able to warp to anything on the scanner, but thats been discussed before without reaching any conclusions.. :)
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Akiman
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Posted - 2006.09.06 11:22:00 -
[29]
yeah in eve u dont travel...u warp..u jump...yup /signed
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Garramon
Gallente
Sturmgrenadier Inc
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.09.06 12:08:00 -
[30]
And we can have a world filled with assault frigates and interceptors as nobody will want manually pilot through 300km of thick space.
For some reason the fact that ~50% of the people replying to the thread fail to read and understand the point of the OP is hilarious. |
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