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How much ISK is too much?

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Cmdr Sy EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.09.05 23:53:00 - [1] Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 05/09/2006 23:54:02 One complaint that frequently crops up in economy/nerf threads is the presence of too much money in the system. Too many sources, too few sinks, etc. There is disagreement as to whether L4 agents or 0.0 NPCs are the bigger problem, but the general perception is that NPC bounties are feeding more money into the system than is spent on skillbooks and other sinks. Also, it is widely accepted that industry neither creates nor destroys wealth, merely redistributes it, in the absence of meaningful NPC-imposed running costs and taxation. There is supposed to be inflation and its attendant economic distortions, moderated to an extent in the T1 sector by the mineral content of items sold by NPCs, farming activities and so on, but expressed as inflation in the T2 and player services sectors. So how much ISK is too much? At what point does a wallet balance, or stockpile of ships, modules and other items of value purchased with ISK, become a danger to the EVE economy? What is the norm today? What pressures will the recent and ongoing influx of new players exert as time passes and their spending requirements (and earning potential) grow? Just curious what people think. Personally, I think the economy has been strangely stable of late, even HAC prices have changed very little since spring. Are the dangers of Summer '05 style inflation real or exaggerated? Speculate away.
Blind Man Caldari Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.05 23:54:00 - [2] when you spend as much isk as you want on stuff and not care at all if you lose it SignatureTemporarily Out Of Order
Tao Han Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.09.05 23:59:00 - [3] I have to agree with the OP It is my opinion that there is to much ISK in EvE, not enough leaves and from what I've seen/heard alot of it is comming from those 0.0 complexes which are farmed daily by alliances. Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes Leave my sigs alone *sob - Tao Han But they're as close to you as we can get <3-Cathath
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2006.09.06 00:01:00 - [4] Edited by: madaluap on 06/09/2006 00:02:35 Originally by: Blind Man when you spend as much isk as you want on stuff and not care at all if you lose it I can spend as much isk as i want on my atron, and not pose a threat (to the enemy and economics offcourse). Lets see ill spend 30k on it, because thats how much i want to spend... Just because i dont care about losing a ship doesnt mean it will pose a threat to economics. _________________________________________________
d026 Herrscher der Zeit	Posted - 2006.09.06 00:04:00 - [5] complex farming does not bring more isk into eve than regular belthunting.
Lord Dynastron	Posted - 2006.09.06 00:35:00 - [6] They need to make expensive 'fluff' that pilots can buy. Colored ships, special character logos, medals, etc. POS's are one of the greatest isk sinks of all time,,, but there needs to be something between them and outposts. Something in the 5-10 billion isk range that you can put up in empire to bleed off carebear isk. UO did that with floor tiles and what-not,, worked great.
Benglada Finite Auxiliary	Posted - 2006.09.06 00:41:00 - [7] I need to be able to decal my ships. CCP GIVE ME MY PIRATE FLAG PLZ. Id pay 20m to put a pirate flag on my ishtar. --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
Lord Dynastron	Posted - 2006.09.06 00:42:00 - [8] Originally by: Benglada I need to be able to decal my ships. CCP GIVE ME MY PIRATE FLAG PLZ. Id pay 20m to put a pirate flag on my ishtar. Exactly! Yes,, I would pay 20 mil (or way more) to put custom decals on my ships.... all of my ships.
Liegus	Posted - 2006.09.06 00:52:00 - [9] Originally by: Cmdr Sy At what point does a wallet balance, or stockpile of ships, modules and other items of value purchased with ISK, become a danger to the EVE economy? At the very point at which one realizes that one's slice of the pie may have become smaller instead of larger lately, and one rushes to the forums to alert the world that the sky is falling. ;)
xlop Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.06 01:10:00 - [10] Originally by: Lord Dynastron They need to make expensive 'fluff' that pilots can buy. Colored ships, special character logos, medals, etc. POS's are one of the greatest isk sinks of all time,,, but there needs to be something between them and outposts. Something in the 5-10 billion isk range that you can put up in empire to bleed off carebear isk. UO did that with floor tiles and what-not,, worked great. lol pos are the majour isk sinks? what game are you playing look at the BPOS sold weekly look at skills bought weekly look at pos isk burned weekly BPOs are the biggest, followed by skills, then probably followed by poddings tbh, then pos
x racer	Posted - 2006.09.06 01:43:00 - [11] Edited by: x racer on 06/09/2006 01:46:03 There is incredible ignorance surrounding the economic forces in RL. This is, of course, reflected in discussions of the EVE persistant world. The first indicator that there is too much money in eve is the concept of inflation. Inflation Definition Is there inflation in EVE? I dont think so, others might. T2 prices are high due to supply/demand inequality, not inflation. To look for inflation in the EVE world, you have to look at the costs of minerals. I feel certain that the "Alan Greenspan" Dev. watches a variety of indicators and makes small changes to roid respawn rates, costs of manufacturing, etc... to keep inflation (and therefore value) in check. "Too much isk in EVE" should not be the question/discussion...the correct discussion should be more along the lines of "enough money supply to maintain the playerbase, while maintaining the value of goods" gl x
xlop Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.06 02:12:00 - [12] Originally by: x racer Edited by: x racer on 06/09/2006 01:48:03 Edited by: x racer on 06/09/2006 01:46:03 There is incredible ignorance surrounding the economic forces in RL. This is, of course, reflected in discussions of the EVE persistant world. The first indicator that there is too much money in eve is the concept of inflation. Inflation Definition Is there inflation in EVE? I dont think so, others might. T2 prices are high due to supply/demand inequality, not inflation. To look for inflation in the EVE world, you have to look at the costs of minerals. I feel certain that the "Alan Greenspan" Dev. watches a variety of indicators and makes small changes to roid respawn rates, costs of manufacturing, etc... to keep inflation (and therefore value) in check. "Too much isk in EVE" should not be the question/discussion...the correct discussion should be more along the lines of "enough money supply to maintain the playerbase, while maintaining the value of goods" gl x one more thing.....the biggest ISK sink in EVE is the players that never log on again with fat wallets and full hangers, and no orders on the markets mineral prices are oretty much fixed because of npcs, they will never drop below a certain point because of insurance and they will never rise above a certain point because you can refine npc goods so minerals isnt a good example all i knows is, me and many players i know have much much more isk in our wallets and much more assets now than we ever did, and we pvp so a steady state is expected with us
Rajon Kelper Omacron Militia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.09.06 02:14:00 - [13] I dont think there really is much inflation either, tbh. Yes, theres definately TRILLIONS and TRILLIONS of ISK in the system, and it skyrockets each day... but if that ISK sits in wallets, it doesnt overly affect the economy. There are enough carebears in EVE who's sole purpose is to get their wallet as big as possible without spending much for the economy to remain stable. Because theres no mandatory circulation of ISK (such as paying bills and buying food in RL) in EVE, stockpiles are able to be built up, as as long as EVERYONE doesnt start spending ALL of it at once, we're all set. As someone said, t2 prices are simply a supply/demand issue. We need more sources of t2 equipment (such as more BPOs or a similer solution) to balance the supply:demand ratio more if we want the prices to go down. --------------------------------------------------- "The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can, and keep moving."
Hippo117 Caldari 9th Fleet Academy	Posted - 2006.09.06 02:26:00 - [14] 790 billion is too much. Then again people knew that was a scam before it happened and it still made such an obscene amount... -------------- My opinions may not represent the opinions of my corporation or alliance. Booby > Rokh Caldari != win button.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.06 02:49:00 - [15] How much is too much? When you can fly ships you want to fly, and lots of losses have no impact on you, you've got too much. Ofcourse if you like to fly officer-fitted faction battleships, and you die alot, you'll never have enough ISK unless you own several key (T2)BPOs. Originally by: Hippo117 790 billion is too much. Then again people knew that was a scam before it happened and it still made such an obscene amount... A fake amount. Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath
DirtyAmarr Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2006.09.06 02:59:00 - [16] I think ccp thought we had too much money coming into the system right when the lvl4s came into the game, before the bounty nerf. That was the golden age of the market to me, almost everything was inflated.
Doppleganger Minmatar Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.09.06 03:03:00 - [17] Well when it come to my personal wallet... too much isk is when its a 1 with so many zeros behind it that it completely fills one monitor and 1/2 of a second monitor or a number so long it will no longer register with eve. When it comes to everyone elses wallet 30k is too much! So plz send any ammount you have over 30k to my char so he can complete his numerical goal..
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.06 03:22:00 - [18] Originally by: xlop Originally by: Lord Dynastron They need to make expensive 'fluff' that pilots can buy. Colored ships, special character logos, medals, etc. POS's are one of the greatest isk sinks of all time,,, but there needs to be something between them and outposts. Something in the 5-10 billion isk range that you can put up in empire to bleed off carebear isk. UO did that with floor tiles and what-not,, worked great. lol pos are the majour isk sinks? what game are you playing look at the BPOS sold weekly look at skills bought weekly look at pos isk burned weekly BPOs are the biggest, followed by skills, then probably followed by poddings tbh, then pos POS are easily the biggest isk sinks in the game atm. All the fuel is NPC supplied ^^. "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14)
Druadan Gallente Epsilon Eridani Driveworks	Posted - 2006.09.06 04:34:00 - [19] 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 ISK Anything greater than that is too much. And no, it's not an arbitrary number I chose at random :D (P.S.: I'm too new to the game to have a real opinion on it, so I thought I'd make a post in jest. One internents to whoever gets why I chose that number.) "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.06 06:03:00 - [20] Anyone who has more than me has gone too far! --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ephemeron	Posted - 2006.09.06 06:13:00 - [21] I bet if everyone in game would send me all their ISK, my wallet would eventually buffer overflow and something magical would happen Feel free to try it
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2006.09.06 06:16:00 - [22] Originally by: Nifel Originally by: xlop Originally by: Lord Dynastron They need to make expensive 'fluff' that pilots can buy. Colored ships, special character logos, medals, etc. POS's are one of the greatest isk sinks of all time,,, but there needs to be something between them and outposts. Something in the 5-10 billion isk range that you can put up in empire to bleed off carebear isk. UO did that with floor tiles and what-not,, worked great. lol pos are the majour isk sinks? what game are you playing look at the BPOS sold weekly look at skills bought weekly look at pos isk burned weekly BPOs are the biggest, followed by skills, then probably followed by poddings tbh, then pos POS are easily the biggest isk sinks in the game atm. All the fuel is NPC supplied ^^. The ice isn't, but that's besides the point. The devs have already stated that POSs sink up 3bil ISK/day, which is a lot of ISK. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic
Guildless Gwynn	Posted - 2006.09.06 06:34:00 - [23] i think one of the best money sinks they could add would be potions that boost attributes for certain durations.
Cmdr Sy EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.09.06 06:35:00 - [24] Originally by: Rajon Kelper I dont think there really is much inflation either, tbh. Yes, theres definately TRILLIONS and TRILLIONS of ISK in the system, and it skyrockets each day... but if that ISK sits in wallets, it doesnt overly affect the economy. There are enough carebears in EVE who's sole purpose is to get their wallet as big as possible without spending much for the economy to remain stable. Because theres no mandatory circulation of ISK (such as paying bills and buying food in RL) in EVE, stockpiles are able to be built up, as as long as EVERYONE doesnt start spending ALL of it at once, we're all set. As someone said, t2 prices are simply a supply/demand issue. We need more sources of t2 equipment (such as more BPOs or a similer solution) to balance the supply:demand ratio more if we want the prices to go down. I think this could be about right. We don't really have a banking system to break.
Souma12	Posted - 2006.09.06 06:43:00 - [25] well they can always devaluate the isk, making 1bil just 10mils or so, and doing the same with prices of stuff... thats a good way to remove isk from the game lol
Ephemeron	Posted - 2006.09.06 06:47:00 - [26] One of the best new ISK sinks would be to add purely graphical ship customization at a fee. People would want to customize each new ship they get and if they don't die often, they'd still want to change the looks of it from time to time. It could be a great isk sink
Rina Shanu Peace Loving Criminals	Posted - 2006.09.06 07:06:00 - [27] Yes I have to agree to the OP that we have too much isk ingame. I find it rather easy to get my ISK and have never had isk problems since day one. The game is too easy. I find it easy to get a ship and full t2 equipment and just loose it. I can work a bit and get 2 more. If isk would be harder to obtain, items will be harder to get, the thrill will get a new level. We should really work for them isk. Make eve harder. I hate those newcomers taht just start asking for 30k when they could just go out kill a few drones and they have it. Rina RECRUITMENT this ok dear?
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.09.06 07:40:00 - [28] Meh, inflation is when item cost more because there is more money in circulation. Looking at the market, there is no inflation. T1 ships cost about what they have always have. you don;t see tier 2 BS's selling for 115 million just cause people have extra isk to burn on them. Now if people have more isk than they used, too, yes, but there has been no inflation on basic items.
Kalaan Oratay The Imperial Commonwealth	Posted - 2006.09.06 07:45:00 - [29] Originally by: Druadan 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 ISK Anything greater than that is too much. And no, it's not an arbitrary number I chose at random :D (P.S.: I'm too new to the game to have a real opinion on it, so I thought I'd make a post in jest. One internents to whoever gets why I chose that number.) Hindu cosmological number --- Originally by: Archilies Ignore what others say: Fit what you want, with what you have, whenever you want.
Hamatitio Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.06 07:46:00 - [30] Originally by: Kalaan Oratay Originally by: Druadan 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 ISK Anything greater than that is too much. And no, it's not an arbitrary number I chose at random :D (P.S.: I'm too new to the game to have a real opinion on it, so I thought I'd make a post in jest. One internents to whoever gets why I chose that number.) Hindu cosmological number Google ftw. --- I'm going through sigs fast these days.

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