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replace laser cap use bonus on amarr ships

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Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2057	Posted - 2014.12.16 02:59:42 - [31] - Quote i wouldnt buff amarr capacitors, just lower the cap cost of lasers. lasers are unusable on non-amarrian ships. this would remedy that and allow for some good **** s and giggles (laser raven). Amarr can still have powerful capacitors for reasons other than lasers. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
J A Aloysiusz Precision Strike Brigade Easily Excited 94	Posted - 2014.12.16 03:40:39 - [32] - Quote Please get rid of this stupid bonus. Do not put it into a hull bonus. Amarr lasers should be powerful, at the expense of heavy capacitor use. Any ships that would be made unusable due to removal of capacitor use (this mostly affects pvers reliant on passive recharge) could receive a buff to their passive capacitor stats. Amarr is supposed to have the strongest capacitor, after all. ^ My $.02
Tusker Crazinski Delta vane Corp. Mordus Angels 5	Posted - 2014.12.16 04:00:45 - [33] - Quote Yes for the love of god! Granted some cap bonuses to lasers have been removed, namely the Abbadon. But yes laser the laser boats that are stuck with this miss out on application, projection or DPS buffs other hulls in their class get. Make lasers worth the Gigajoules required to fire them instead of making them take less gigajoules Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Or how a tracking bonus on autocannons allows them to hit the target without switching to depleted uranium, or a rate of fire bonus on any weapon gives slightly more DPS than a damage increase while giving some sort of drawback to balance it out: lasers: more cap usage missiles/autocannons: more ammo usage hybrids: more cap and ammo usage artillery: less alpha strike Yes on the Ammo, that should be much more of a limiting factor Yes I guess, the real issue Hybrids are just better than energy and projectiles. Arty. no that is literally the one thing they do good.
Tusker Crazinski Delta vane Corp. Mordus Angels 5	Posted - 2014.12.16 04:02:39 - [34] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Also Amarr ships 'superior' capacitor is actually the weakest Capacitor once actually firing your weapon systems is taken into account. the Dragoon, Geddon, Arbitrator, Prophecy, Guardian, Arguor would like to have a word with you
Cassius Invictus Thou shalt not kill A Nest of Vipers 105	Posted - 2014.12.16 11:52:21 - [35] - Quote Hmm I think we need done something to lasers. It's not the problem with large cap use on it's own, it's than ships like legion can pretty much neut themselves just by shooting, with no good reason (if laser would do more dmg than blasters that would make sense). Insta changing crystals? I fly all races so I can call it a nice but a rather useless bonus. No ammo? Well it's also nice, but handy only when shooting at PoS... Blasters have 5s ammo swap time and it's quite sufficient. I agree that buffing cap of ships is a bad idea since that coud create some sick self-rep combos on some amarr ships. Overall reduction of lasers cap use (medium and large) seems a good idea. Another option is a complete redesign of how lasers work. Make them do much more damage, use much more cap, and use them as a burst (but not alpha) type weapon, that coud do huge damage but for a limited period of time.
Juan Thang Old American Syndicate Silent Infinity 33	Posted - 2014.12.16 14:04:41 - [36] - Quote Just dont come crying to me when you are complaining about having to fit cap boosters all the time on amarr ships after taking the bonus off. Im looking at the battleships in particular here.
James Baboli Ferrous Infernum 391	Posted - 2014.12.16 15:17:24 - [37] - Quote The big issue with amarr battleships is they still have baseline cap stats, even with their weapons using substantially more cap than anyone elses. A sane designer would have set up enough cap to keep the guns going most of the time. Making battleships worth the warp Tech 3 battleships. Moar battleships
Barrogh Habalu Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 807	Posted - 2014.12.16 16:51:58 - [38] - Quote Bronson Hughes wrote: Major Trant wrote: The simple fact is that a ship bonus that reduces cap usage for lasers, effectively amounts to a DPS bonus because it allows you to fire Multifreq considerably longer, rather than say switch to Standard Crystals (45% reduced cap need). I'm going to eat crow here for a moment and admit that, after seeing it explained like this, maybe the cap reduction bonus isn't broken like I had thought it was. It's similar to how I like to point out that optimal range bonuses on Caldari railgun ships is actually a damage bonus because it lets you use antimatter ammo out to longer engagement ranges when other ships would have had to switch to less-damaging ammo. Interesting.... The difference is that there are more than just Caldari ships which can effectively use hybrids. Tracking-bonused gallente ships can be capable at that usage as well. When it comes to energy turrets, however, only Amarr ships use them, other ships neither have bonuses to their stats nor cap to sustain full activation costs of lasers. SoE oddballs are pretty irrelevant here. What that means in reality is that in case with railguns example you have choices between range and tracking coming with different hulls (which means that fleets built around these choices will require different logistics in both senses), but lasers are pretty much glued to Amarr hulls (I can't think of a situation where it can be beneficial to use lasers on non-amarr ships over something else on non-amarr ships or over lasers on Amarr ships). The only exception here is Abaddon that is bonused for lasers but don't have cap consumption bonus. You can argue that in that case you have a choice of not using "hot" crystals and go with longer ranged option instead - that happen to consume less cap. In this case you're not going to match Apoc's damage at any range (provided Apoc have access to all needed crystals) including up close (due to lack of tracking bonus), but you can have somewhat better tank and more DPS against large webbed/painted targets up close (not for long though as it will burn your cap). Not sure if you want such ship over some specialist like Apoc or Mega (not a laser ship, but it's just means to an end and not a contest of laser totters?). Then there's an option to support Abaddons with energy transfer, the question is: is it worth your pilots when there are alternatives? Can a gang/fleet of Abaddons plus some support ships that can allow them to fire their guns do something that a gang/fleet of the same size cannot do better by bringing more combat ships instead of mix of combat and nice support ones? That's one of the questions you need to answer to estimate Amarr ships' place: is it good or not. Saying that some hull have just one bonus instead of two doesn't mean anything: in the end it's just stats of the end product (which we can assume is flown with all Vs anyways, hence non-module bonuses can be considered non-bonuses, just as a bonus to a weapon system that is present on all hulls said system is used with can be considered such too...).
FT Diomedes The Graduates Forged of Fire 712	Posted - 2014.12.16 18:23:44 - [39] - Quote If they removed the cap bonus from Amarr ships, lowered the cap use on the weapons, and gave the ships a new bonus, there is going to be a corresponding nerf somewhere. The cap use bonus is a good bonus, unless lasers as a group are so terrible when compared with other weapons, which is hardly the case in my experience. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1780	Posted - 2014.12.16 19:26:13 - [40] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: If they removed the cap bonus from Amarr ships, lowered the cap use on the weapons, and gave the ships a new bonus, there is going to be a corresponding nerf somewhere. The cap use bonus is a good bonus, unless lasers as a group are so terrible when compared with other weapons, which is hardly the case in my experience. Except for the small fact that Lasers are actually terrible when compared with other weapons. And the change on BS's actually increased the cap useage on ships that used to have a cap bonus. Which is a Nerf of itself as well.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1054	Posted - 2014.12.16 21:44:37 - [41] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: If they removed the cap bonus from Amarr ships, lowered the cap use on the weapons, and gave the ships a new bonus, there is going to be a corresponding nerf somewhere. The cap use bonus is a good bonus, unless lasers as a group are so terrible when compared with other weapons, which is hardly the case in my experience. they actually did that with the apoc and large lasers .. it was only about 10% cap save sadly and the apoc got the tracking bonus, there were no nerfs. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists. ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
Leoric Firesword Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Redux 98	Posted - 2014.12.16 22:15:36 - [42] - Quote as an amarr pilot I see no issue with lasers the way they are. You don't want to neut yourself out? go ahead and switch crystals. don't want to switch crystals? fly a different ship.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1054	Posted - 2014.12.16 23:15:28 - [43] - Quote Leoric Firesword wrote: as an amarr pilot I see no issue with lasers the way they are. You don't want to neut yourself out? go ahead and switch crystals. don't want to switch crystals? fly a different ship. those crystals are lame though .. they reduce your dps so much there not worth using. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists. ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
Niskin League of the Lost 145	Posted - 2014.12.17 14:55:39 - [44] - Quote Harvey James wrote: Leoric Firesword wrote: as an amarr pilot I see no issue with lasers the way they are. You don't want to neut yourself out? go ahead and switch crystals. don't want to switch crystals? fly a different ship. those crystals are lame though .. they reduce your dps so much there not worth using. Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than turning off your guns and waiting. It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship. -MooMooDachshundCow
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1054	Posted - 2014.12.17 17:02:16 - [45] - Quote Niskin wrote: Harvey James wrote: Leoric Firesword wrote: as an amarr pilot I see no issue with lasers the way they are. You don't want to neut yourself out? go ahead and switch crystals. don't want to switch crystals? fly a different ship. those crystals are lame though .. they reduce your dps so much there not worth using. Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than turning off your guns and waiting. i think that sums up the point really .. that the cap use is SO bad we have too talk about special cap ammo and turning guns off.. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists. ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
Niskin League of the Lost 145	Posted - 2014.12.17 18:17:46 - [46] - Quote Harvey James wrote: Niskin wrote: Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than turning off your guns and waiting. i think that sums up the point really .. that the cap use is SO bad we have too talk about special cap ammo and turning guns off.. You have choices in how you fit your ship, choices of which guns to use and which crystals to use. If you choose the least cap stability, with the most hungry guns, with the most hungry crystals... you can't blame the game for your guns shutting off. I've POS busted in an Apoc before, and could have easily fit for cap stability with Multifrequency ammo. But to do that I'd have to leave off the Warp Disruptor and the Armor tank. That would be totally fine, right up until defense fleet shows up. So maybe it's better to say it this way: Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than fitting for cap stability and dying in a fire. It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship. -MooMooDachshundCow
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1054	Posted - 2014.12.17 18:30:26 - [47] - Quote Niskin wrote: Harvey James wrote: Niskin wrote: Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than turning off your guns and waiting. i think that sums up the point really .. that the cap use is SO bad we have too talk about special cap ammo and turning guns off.. You have choices in how you fit your ship, choices of which guns to use and which crystals to use. If you choose the least cap stability, with the most hungry guns, with the most hungry crystals... you can't blame the game for your guns shutting off. I've POS busted in an Apoc before, and could have easily fit for cap stability with Multifrequency ammo. But to do that I'd have to leave off the Warp Disruptor and the Armor tank. That would be totally fine, right up until defense fleet shows up. So maybe it's better to say it this way: Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than fitting for cap stability and dying in a fire. and you seriously don't have a problem with any of that? .. come on.... Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists. ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
Cassius Invictus Thou shalt not kill A Nest of Vipers 105	Posted - 2014.12.17 21:26:17 - [48] - Quote Harvey James wrote: Niskin wrote: Harvey James wrote: Niskin wrote: Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than turning off your guns and waiting. i think that sums up the point really .. that the cap use is SO bad we have too talk about special cap ammo and turning guns off.. You have choices in how you fit your ship, choices of which guns to use and which crystals to use. If you choose the least cap stability, with the most hungry guns, with the most hungry crystals... you can't blame the game for your guns shutting off. I've POS busted in an Apoc before, and could have easily fit for cap stability with Multifrequency ammo. But to do that I'd have to leave off the Warp Disruptor and the Armor tank. That would be totally fine, right up until defense fleet shows up. So maybe it's better to say it this way: Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than fitting for cap stability and dying in a fire. and you seriously don't have a problem with any of that? .. come on.... True I have a choice to use blaster, which I do. This topic is about making lasers worth using.
Niskin League of the Lost 145	Posted - 2014.12.17 21:30:45 - [49] - Quote Harvey James wrote: Niskin wrote: You have choices in how you fit your ship, choices of which guns to use and which crystals to use. If you choose the least cap stability, with the most hungry guns, with the most hungry crystals... you can't blame the game for your guns shutting off. I've POS busted in an Apoc before, and could have easily fit for cap stability with Multifrequency ammo. But to do that I'd have to leave off the Warp Disruptor and the Armor tank. That would be totally fine, right up until defense fleet shows up. So maybe it's better to say it this way: Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than fitting for cap stability and dying in a fire. and you seriously don't have a problem with any of that? .. come on.... Not. Even. A. Little. Bit. That's the point of them giving us choices, so we can make them. I could totally fit for cap stability if I felt there would be no defense fleet, or if having everybody fit that way might get it done faster so we can GTFO before trouble arrives, then that makes sense. Those are the kinds of choices that this enables. It's no different than choosing between Armor Hardeners and Heat Sinks, or Sensor Boosters and EWAR. It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship. -MooMooDachshundCow
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1417	Posted - 2014.12.17 21:33:10 - [50] - Quote Harvey James wrote: Niskin wrote: Harvey James wrote: Niskin wrote: Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than turning off your guns and waiting. i think that sums up the point really .. that the cap use is SO bad we have too talk about special cap ammo and turning guns off.. You have choices in how you fit your ship, choices of which guns to use and which crystals to use. If you choose the least cap stability, with the most hungry guns, with the most hungry crystals... you can't blame the game for your guns shutting off. I've POS busted in an Apoc before, and could have easily fit for cap stability with Multifrequency ammo. But to do that I'd have to leave off the Warp Disruptor and the Armor tank. That would be totally fine, right up until defense fleet shows up. So maybe it's better to say it this way: Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than fitting for cap stability and dying in a fire. and you seriously don't have a problem with any of that? .. come on.... no
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2088	Posted - 2014.12.20 03:36:32 - [51] - Quote Harvey James wrote: Reaver Glitterstim wrote: I would agree to a buff to Amarrian capacitor systems. Laser ships, as a design philosophy, should have uncommonly strong capacitors, even if it comes at the cost of something else. After all, Minmatar ships have smaller sig radius and higher velocity/agility at the expense of reduced hit points. and what would the penalty be? Howabout slightly reduced targeting range and max ship velocity? Tough armor tankers aren't meant to be fast, and beam lasers have less range than any other long range weapon system. I haven't checked, but I think the penalty already exists to match the bonus. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) "What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
Flaming Butterfly Black Serpent Technologies Black Legion. 2	Posted - 2014.12.20 06:33:24 - [52] - Quote We have controlled burst giving -25% at L5 for -5% per level Frig 5 -50 Dessie 5 -50% Cruiser 5 -50% HAC -50% BC 5 -50% CS -50% T3 offensive -40% to -50% BS get no reduction at all Dread -40% to 50% Change Controlled Burst to -10% for -50% and add in an advanced version giving -5% for the full -75% trained at L5. Allows for some cap usage for lasers -only appropriate, but allows other bonuses like: reduced armor repairer activation cost reduced armor repairer duration tracking bonuses greater optimal bonuses drone bonuses armor HP resistance to nos/neut rof/damage
Riot Girl You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack 3616	Posted - 2014.12.20 08:26:21 - [53] - Quote It is a pretty pointless role bonus but Amarr ships aren't exactly struggling. I think they're pretty well balanced as far as the current meta allows, changing the bonuses would just upset things further, although it might make a change to Gallente FOTM madness. Oh god.
Riot Girl You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack 3616	Posted - 2014.12.20 08:31:03 - [54] - Quote I've flown a lot of laser boats and I've never had to make a compromise in ammo selection as a result of capacitor issues. Just use a cap booster. Oh god.

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