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Jenshae Chiroptera
607
   |
Posted - 2014.12.15 22:56:51 -
[181] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Defenders to be able to extend wars indefinitely for free.
This already exists. Quote: Defenders to be able with confirmation from other corps and alliances to add them to their side of the war. So does this. Do you even play this game?
It has been three years since I cared that I was war dec'ed. So, I haven't bothered looking into it.
Really? Indefinitely for free where the attacker can't back out unless you let them and you can bring in as many allies as you like for free also?
CSM Ten movement for change.
EVE - the only MMO that not so subtly serves up victims.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Kaarous Aldurald
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10823
|
Posted - 2014.12.15 22:58:40 -
[182] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
It has been three years since I cared that I was war dec'ed. So, I haven't bothered looking into it.
Really? Indefinitely for free where the attacker can't back out unless you let them and you can bring in as many allies as you like for free also?
Not quite as far as the defender extending a war, but they can be made mutual. RvB does this, most notably. And as for allies, yes.
And as for talking about things without bothering to look into them.
Don't.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Foxicity
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
40
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Posted - 2014.12.15 22:59:25 -
[183] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
It has been three years since I cared that I was war dec'ed. So, I haven't bothered looking into it.
Really? Indefinitely for free where the attacker can't back out unless you let them and you can bring in as many allies as you like for free also?
It's called a mutual war. The attacker can still back out. Not sure how one is started, but I do know that they're awesome. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10823
|
Posted - 2014.12.15 23:04:16 -
[184] - Quote
And once again I have rung for the mods to put an end to Basil's street corner ranting about "griefing".
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Basil Pupkin
Why So Platypus
70
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Posted - 2014.12.15 23:04:32 -
[185] - Quote
Jurico Elemenohpe wrote:I doubt ratters are getting 20m ticks without shiny BS (e.g. pirate/marauder) or carriers.
Not sure about mission runners.
Incursions are 90-200m/hour, so it depends. 90 is for the noob groups, 200 for high class blitzing groups that get lucky. 120 is pretty standard.
It's worse than PI, but PI is a passive income
20 minutes of PI per day (not including setup times) average (updating the extractors, hauling). 600m/month. That's 600m for 600 minutes of work. so 1m/minute.
Yeah, wormholers are just rich. They do some of the hardest PvE and have to deal with logistics, which is a pain (unless they day trip, but that's not as good). It's also annoying to find a good place to set up, and you'll probably require a corp for extended stays. The risk is also pretty high and you need to probe a lot.
FW is largely variable isk. 60-90m/hour, if you manage to farm uninterrupted, but that's hard to do, because people are always hunting.
Industrials as in people that invent/research/manufacture? Well, that depends on who you're comparing it to, but probably in man hours, less isk/hour, yeah.
Traders have no steady ISK/hour. But the high end traders are able to make more than most other activities in the game.
Not really, the profit would be roughly equal to hauling a freighter, but that's not steady isk like most other activities, because other people could take the contracts/high end contracts, you need to keep lots of isk in liquid for collateral, but if you could get constant contracts, and assuming it takes 4 minutes/system (to travel), you're making like 250k/minute, which is like 15m/hour. Which is about 3/4 what a linked miner can make.
The point was not to make a complete present-moment comparison of income levels. The point was to highlight that there is an overwhelming number of professions which do not rely on minerals for their income, and thus your income does not scale automatically with mineral prices. Actually, it does with everything you can build from minerals - which is T1 ships and meta0 modules. With anything else, and that's pretty darn big group of stuff, it does scale compared to how much ISK people of other income sources are throwing in it - and this is the reason mining for profit is dead at the moment: because literally any other activity in the game is above it.
That, and 4 minutes per system sound like bs. It takes 6 minutes to cross Thera, you know.
A crap ton equals 1000 crap loads in metric, and roughly 91 shit loads 12 bull shits and 1 puppy's unforeseen disaster in imperial.
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Abla Tive
74
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Posted - 2014.12.15 23:18:32 -
[186] - Quote
As a miner, one of life's little pleasures is to go fetch a coffee and then return to the computer to see your retriever smouldering, a cloud of Concorde drones and a wrecked Catalyst beside the rock you are pounding.
Don't forget to type 'gf' in local to the lazy ganker hiding in station who could not be bothered to check if you had your damage control running. I consider it the social thing to do.
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Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
13
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Posted - 2014.12.15 23:31:13 -
[187] - Quote
Goethe wrote:I am the Spirit that denies!
And rightly too; for all that doth begin
Should rightly to destruction run;
I don't really think that there are a lot of people who really hate miners. However a mining barge is a spaceship just like any other and as such a commodity. For the market to be alive you need people who make them, people who use them and people who blow them up, preferrably in equal amounts.
I saw a post further up this thread where somebody conjured the hypothetical situation of all miners suddenly stopping to do their thing, nullifying the supply of minerals. Naturally, this would be a disaster. However if suddenly all pvp combat pilots suddenly stopped doing their thing, it'd nullify the demand for minerals. And a fool is he who thinks that situation would be any less horrid. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
1215
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 00:21:35 -
[188] - Quote
Of course one common way to avoid wardecs is just disband your corp and fleet up as solo players from whatever NPC corps your char drops back to by default. There are lot of activities in EVE that require you to be in a corp but mining is not one of them. |
Basil Pupkin
Why So Platypus
70
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 00:38:59 -
[189] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Of course one common way to avoid wardecs is just disband your corp and fleet up as solo players from whatever NPC corps your char drops back to by default. There are lot of activities in EVE that require you to be in a corp but mining is not one of them.
You still need that compression POS, and corp hangars make it that much easier.
Otherwise, yeah, if mining weren't dead and gone at the moment, it could be done in a fleet with a one-man corp managing the POS.
A crap ton equals 1000 crap loads in metric, and roughly 91 shit loads 12 bull shits and 1 puppy's unforeseen disaster in imperial.
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Basil Pupkin
Why So Platypus
70
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 00:42:28 -
[190] - Quote
Violet Hurst wrote:Goethe wrote:I am the Spirit that denies!
And rightly too; for all that doth begin
Should rightly to destruction run;
I don't really think that there are a lot of people who really hate miners. However a mining barge is a spaceship just like any other and as such a commodity. For the market to be alive you need people who make them, people who use them and people who blow them up, preferrably in equal amounts. I saw a post further up this thread where somebody conjured the hypothetical situation of all miners suddenly stopping to do their thing, nullifying the supply of minerals. Naturally, this would be a disaster. However if suddenly all pvp combat pilots suddenly stopped doing their thing, it'd nullify the demand for minerals. And a fool is he who thinks that situation would be any less horrid.
Actually, not. That would cut the demand for PvP ships indeed, however, a lot of ships are used and lost in PvE as well. They would also keep a market for ammo and other expendable items alive. Of course, PvP and PvE losses aren't really comparable, but they do exist, and they consume ammo, lose drones, take up mining crystals, set up new planets with PI, etc.
Thus, situation will be quite bad, but not nearly as bad as PvE players quitting.
A crap ton equals 1000 crap loads in metric, and roughly 91 shit loads 12 bull shits and 1 puppy's unforeseen disaster in imperial.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10823
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 00:51:06 -
[191] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Thus, situation will be quite bad, but not nearly as bad as PvE players quitting.
You overestimate your importance to the state of the game.
With CCP about to deal the deathstroke to so very many ISBoxer accounts, thus far the only thing that I've really noticed that effects me is lower plex prices.
And that's a good thing. So it seems to me that the game could very well do with less of you.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
261
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 01:15:45 -
[192] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote:
Thus, situation will be quite bad, but not nearly as bad as PvE players quitting.
You overestimate your importance to the state of the game. With CCP about to deal the deathstroke to so very many ISBoxer accounts, thus far the only thing that I've really noticed that effects me is lower plex prices. And that's a good thing. So it seems to me that the game could very well do with less of you.
You are STILL talking to these clueless trolls?
Sheesh! Get some life of your own, man! |
Jenshae Chiroptera
607
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 01:21:12 -
[193] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Don't.
I will make my own decisions on what I do and do not do. 
CSM Ten movement for change.
EVE - the only MMO that not so subtly serves up victims.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10823
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 01:24:47 -
[194] - Quote
Sol Project wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote:
Thus, situation will be quite bad, but not nearly as bad as PvE players quitting.
You overestimate your importance to the state of the game. With CCP about to deal the deathstroke to so very many ISBoxer accounts, thus far the only thing that I've really noticed that effects me is lower plex prices. And that's a good thing. So it seems to me that the game could very well do with less of you. You are STILL talking to these clueless trolls? Sheesh! Get some life of your own, man!
My wife's in the hospital, and I'm posting from my phone when she's asleep. Since I've read the few books I brought with me thrice over in the last week(although the 5th edition Dungeon Master's Guide is delightful), I have little else to do.
"get a life" indeed.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Arancar Australis
Dead Sun Rising Enterprises
101
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 01:47:49 -
[195] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Sol Project wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote:
Thus, situation will be quite bad, but not nearly as bad as PvE players quitting.
You overestimate your importance to the state of the game. With CCP about to deal the deathstroke to so very many ISBoxer accounts, thus far the only thing that I've really noticed that effects me is lower plex prices. And that's a good thing. So it seems to me that the game could very well do with less of you. You are STILL talking to these clueless trolls? Sheesh! Get some life of your own, man! My wife's in the hospital, and I'm posting from my phone when she's asleep. Since I've read the few books I brought with me thrice over in the last week(although the 5th edition Dungeon Master's Guide is delightful), I have little else to do. "get a life" indeed.
Since all miners tend to get tarred with the same brush as being nasty individuals who wish death and bodily harm on those who disrupt our playing style...
Kaarous, I hope your wife is not too serious and recovers quickly mate. No sarcasm involved at all. |
Lady Areola Fappington
2373
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 02:28:50 -
[196] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You overestimate your importance to the state of the game.
With CCP about to deal the deathstroke to so very many ISBoxer accounts, thus far the only thing that I've really noticed that effects me is lower plex prices.
And that's a good thing. So it seems to me that the game could very well do with less of you.
I've honestly felt the same about miners, granted from a slightly different direction.
For the most part, miners are the equivalent of NPC vendors from other games. They rarely if ever interact with the outside game in ways other than "Hey got some ore to sell!". They interact the same as Urthog, Orc Vendor of swords in Universe of Magiccraft interacts. The argument that they have to do something to get that ore doesn't wash. The programmer of Urthog up there had to do something to make him work too, but nobody says Bob the Programmer is a valued interacting member of UoM's playerbase due to the "work" he put in making Urthog work.
It reminds me of old Everquest, back when they implemented the market area. You had tons of level 1 characters standing around, loaded with stuff to sell. You walk up, hand the character gold, they hand you back an item. All automated, sort of a proto auction house. Exact same with miners., only with the abstraction level of the market.
CCP could quite literally replace all miners with NPC drones, and very few would notice a difference. We could go the simple route, and just RNG some NPC sell orders, or go the complex route and base sale orders on production and such. Even throw in some NPC mining ships to explode.
Maybe all the miners SHOULD just up and quit mining. It'll motivate CCP into fixing the problem that is non-interactive resource gathering. Get a system going that actually rewards being a part of the community.
It isn't really hard, but I think there are customers that you can lose in a good way and there's customers that you can lose in a bad way. If people come in and fundamentally don't like EVE Online, then I think that might be a good way of losing customers. . -á--CCP Soundwave
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Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
261
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 02:41:50 -
[197] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Sol Project wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote:
Thus, situation will be quite bad, but not nearly as bad as PvE players quitting.
You overestimate your importance to the state of the game. With CCP about to deal the deathstroke to so very many ISBoxer accounts, thus far the only thing that I've really noticed that effects me is lower plex prices. And that's a good thing. So it seems to me that the game could very well do with less of you. You are STILL talking to these clueless trolls? Sheesh! Get some life of your own, man! My wife's in the hospital, and I'm posting from my phone when she's asleep. Since I've read the few books I brought with me thrice over in the last week(although the 5th edition Dungeon Master's Guide is delightful), I have little else to do. "get a life" indeed.
Sheesh! Holy ****!
I hope she'll get better soon! |
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
4089
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 03:03:16 -
[198] - Quote
I consider miners to serve a useful role as the bottom of the food chain. Someone's got to do it.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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Jenshae Chiroptera
608
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Posted - 2014.12.16 03:07:15 -
[199] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:I've honestly felt the same about miners, granted from a slightly different direction..
By the same token, reds are just more sophisticated belt rats that need to be shot at with only overwhelming force.
CSM Ten movement for change.
EVE - the only MMO that not so subtly serves up victims.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
|
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
265
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 03:10:06 -
[200] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Lady Areola Fappington wrote:I've honestly felt the same about miners, granted from a slightly different direction.. By the same token, reds are just more sophisticated belt rats that need to be shot at with only overwhelming force.
Bring it... I'll be working on my -10 again ...
... and unlike all the lesser gankers who hide behind scouts and the group ...
... I am not an easy mark ..........
Pffffft reaching -10 will take ages ........ |
Justin Zaine
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
104
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 03:12:02 -
[201] - Quote
Hate?
Hate is a strong word.
Even so, people act as though the emotions they convey in-game bear any quantifiable resemblance to their real life identity and mental state. I don't hate anybody in Eve - In fact i'd probably get along great with a lot of the people i've had disagreements with, if I were to bump into them on the street. Who I am in this game is about as true-to-life as my character's six-pack abs.
I've been a downright ******* to some people in this game. Do I hate them? Not at all. I do what I do because I can (Because I find it entertaining to some extent), because it's part of the game and because that is Eve. I make sure not to take it personally when It's my turn to be on the receiving end.
Fucks Given --Perception/Willpower--
Skill at social interaction. 20% decrease per level to the number of fucks given in any particular situation.
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Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
265
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 03:15:22 -
[202] - Quote
Justin Zaine wrote:Hate?
Hate is a strong word.
Even so, people act as though the emotions they convey in-game bear any quantifiable resemblance to their real life identity and mental state. I don't hate anybody in Eve - In fact i'd probably get along great with a lot of the people i've had disagreements with, if I were to bump into them on the street. Who I am in this game is about as true-to-life as my character's six-pack abs.
I've been a downright ******* to some people in this game. Do I hate them? Not at all. I do what I do because I can (Because I find it entertaining to some extent), because it's part of the game and because that is Eve. I make sure not to take it personally when It's my turn to be on the receiving end.
You suck.
Noob. |
Arancar Australis
Dead Sun Rising Enterprises
102
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 03:24:54 -
[203] - Quote
If the health of an online game is measured in the amount of "raging opinionated threads" then EVE online is very healthy (yes a non-stealth Eve is not dying post).
It is amazing how blinkered both sides of this age old argument really are. For my part, yes i will afk mine from time to time (i say this knowing it may put a target on my head  ) and if i get caught out, you won't get a "gf" from me, as it is not a fight at all. You will get a well played, a self deprecating laugh at myself and a "have fun" remark as i disappear. The reason why i can do that?
Easy, this is a game. It is not life or death (since we keep on coming back in our clones anyway). It's for enjoyment in the method that we each individually want. Yes we may disagree on what is the best or right playing style, but all playing styles are allowed on here. Yes PVP is the dominant one as it is a game where one of the major aspects is PVP, but that doesn't mean that it is the only voice that should be heard and all others should be ignored.
Both sides whine about this topic. Miners go "Why don't you leave me alone to play how i want to play...CCP make them stop". PVP/Gankers" How dare you play with no risk and play PVP like this game is about...CCP get rid of Concord".
I say "Suck it up the both of you". Miners, when we go out into the belts to mine, we should accept that we will lose a ship because the sandbox allows it to happen, because that is the risk we should be aware of , and if replacing a ship because it is so expensive...well i don't know what you are doing with your ISk after selling. To the PVP/Gankers, you speak of miners/highsec being risk averse and yet you want Concord removed or lessened so that your risk is removed so you gank at will...hypocritical much, lead by example and accpt the risk to yourself because you want to gank in the sandbox that allows you to do so and accept the consequences.
Not saying we should all get along, just realise that all playing styles are allowed in this game and do what you want in game, don't take it out of game to remove anothers ability to play it in the style they wish.
TL:DR version...Just enjoy the game for what it is and what it can be and allows, you numpties 
Oh and Sol, i do enjoy mining ...no lie there mate, so don't assume you know my thought process...other than that i enjoy your posts  |
Seven Koskanaiken
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
1375
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 03:28:40 -
[204] - Quote
Embrace it. You are harvesting their tears just by existing. |
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
265
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 03:36:07 -
[205] - Quote
Write an essay about the excitement of watching paint dry and grass grow.
Seriously. If you enjoy mining, actively, you'll write bestsellers! ;) |
Arancar Australis
Dead Sun Rising Enterprises
102
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 03:45:32 -
[206] - Quote
Sol Project wrote:Write an essay about the excitement of watching paint dry and grass grow.
Seriously. If you enjoy mining, actively, you'll write bestsellers! ;)
Well since they remove the ability to ISbox my audience has been dimished. I could have been swimming in a pool of Isk...damn you CCP, damn you!! |
Vapor Ventrillian
The Scope
Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 03:52:15 -
[207] - Quote
Why cant we do both man....gawd peeps be hating each other 
*believes haters secretly wish they were in long skirts singing abba*
The Evil Overlord of Scope, self elected as all good overlords should be
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Lady Areola Fappington
2374
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 04:00:24 -
[208] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
By the same token, reds are just more sophisticated belt rats that need to be shot at with only overwhelming force.
Kind of expected that response. In some ways it's true. My argument against is, in almost every other case in EVE, player interaction strives to move away from behaving like an NPC. You'd get stomped in no uncertain terms, if you modeled your PVP style in a similar way to rats. In fact, one of the bigger complaints is that PVE red cross shooting DOESN'T prepare one for PVP, because red crosses act in very predictable, easy to exploit patterns.
Mining, on the other hand, is the exact opposite. It strives TOWARDS being as NPClike as possible. The more you interact and engage in the game, the less efficient your mining is. The perfect ideal for a miner would be to always have ore/mins on the market, always selling, with as minimal amount of actual player interaction as possible.
It's a failing of the Eve resource gathering system, and I don't totally fault miners for it. Eve really does push resource gathering to be as "bot-aspirant" as possible.
Also Jenshae Bat how are you posting bats don't have fingers go home and eat some bugs bat.
It isn't really hard, but I think there are customers that you can lose in a good way and there's customers that you can lose in a bad way. If people come in and fundamentally don't like EVE Online, then I think that might be a good way of losing customers. . -á--CCP Soundwave
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Clockwork Robot
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 04:07:45 -
[209] - Quote
Gankers spend all day justifying messing with the playstyles of anyone they can.
This is for tears, and lulz. Miners are told that its just pixels. Just a game.
CCP messes with ganking playstyle. Gankers write endless... ENDLESS pages of epic diatribe and unhappiness about them durn ol carebears getting their playstyle ****** with.
You ganker dudes spend as much time crying about your butthurt as you do inflicting it on others. Get a freakin life, guys. Go "create content". Stop abloo-blooing because the people who you screw over get you screwed over.
And tell your homie Psychotic Monk that Belligerent Unupdateables is not a content creation blog anymore.
(And tell Feyd to stop freaking crying, man. Seriously. Your blog is great, when youre not gnashing teeth and wailing about "carebears".) |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1776
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 04:54:45 -
[210] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Kind of expected that response. In some ways it's true. My argument against is, in almost every other case in EVE, player interaction strives to move away from behaving like an NPC. You'd get stomped in no uncertain terms, if you modeled your PVP style in a similar way to rats. In fact, one of the bigger complaints is that PVE red cross shooting DOESN'T prepare one for PVP, because red crosses act in very predictable, easy to exploit patterns.
Mining, on the other hand, is the exact opposite. It strives TOWARDS being as NPClike as possible. The more you interact and engage in the game, the less efficient your mining is. The perfect ideal for a miner would be to always have ore/mins on the market, always selling, with as minimal amount of actual player interaction as possible.
It's a failing of the Eve resource gathering system, and I don't totally fault miners for it. Eve really does push resource gathering to be as "bot-aspirant" as possible.
Also Jenshae Bat how are you posting bats don't have fingers go home and eat some bugs bat.
Go mining in low, or with Hulks/Covetors in a fleet with hauler, managing your scanner to avoid over mining, moving ore to the haulers, and managing deep scan (Which is worth managing even in high sec).
Then realise how much more miners can make while being interactive and engaged with the game. And other players.
Even in a retriever/mack you can be engaged with the game while mining.
Yet how it looks exactly the same to someone observing as an AFW miner. Who simply responds to the sound prompts of the asteroid has been mined out.
AFK miners on the other hand are a myth anywhere but Null Sec, since the rocks aren't large enough anywhere but Null Anoms to actually AFK, or you end up not mining anything. |
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