Sorry guys but I didn't get where is the reason in nerf to Drone Hordes.
Before the nerf we had been making more efforts(salvage, collect, sale alloys or refine and build stuff) to earn the same money from dron region towards the regions with bounty.

And now, after last path you(CCP) presented gift for as. We cannot salvage while we do the horde which we need to do in order to get any money. This increases the time it takes to do a horde significantly. Which reduced ISK income.

Everything looks good by now, except drone regions. I think that we need to rework last changes that according to the drone regions.

Thanks. With hope that this problem will be solved.

Sorry guys but I didn't get where is the reason in nerf to Drone Hordes.
Before the nerf we had been making more efforts(salvage, collect, sale alloys or refine and build stuff) to earn the same money from dron region towards the regions with bounty.

And now, after last path you(CCP) presented gift for as. We cannot salvage while we do the horde which we need to do in order to get any money. This increases the time it takes to do a horde significantly. Which reduced ISK income.

Everything looks good by now, except drone regions. I think that we need to rework last changes that according to the drone regions.

Thanks. With hope that this problem will be solved.

Sorry guys but I didn't get where is the reason in nerf to Drone Hordes.
Before the nerf we had been making more efforts(salvage, collect, sale alloys or refine and build stuff) to earn the same money from dron region towards the regions with bounty.

And now, after last path you(CCP) presented gift for as. We cannot salvage while we do the horde which we need to do in order to get any money. This increases the time it takes to do a horde significantly. Which reduced ISK income.

Everything looks good by now, except drone regions. I think that we need to rework last changes that according to the drone regions.

Thanks. With hope that this problem will be solved.

Some regions arent as good as others?

Well I never

That's not the point. Its about your space that you have worked hard building an outpost and upgrading getting nerf'd out from under you on the whim of the Devs. Yes, people will gravitate to the new better space, but it sucks for those on the receiving end of the nerf. And before anyone spouts off about Russian bots its not about that either. Its a nerf to at the keyboard players who run the sites.

Great expansion CCP, but this one thing sours the hole thing for those of us in drone. Especially as you give the other anoms a boost.

Why do I still feel astounded when CCP make a changes without investigating the consequences of their actions. Why don't they get a dev to join a DR corp for a week and actually understand how the anoms work and what's wrong with them.

Is it possible that they did investigate, and found that drones are making miners unneeded? I know this is a nerf to drone shooters, but it should be a much needed buff to miners.

One man's nerf is another man's buff. This is a good thing for the mining profession.

I wonder why I didn't see drone region guys crying for the poor miners who were getting screwed by them before today........

Sheesh, why bother posting? How do you think people in the drone regions should make money then? Just salvaging? Are you absolutely stupid? People in every other region generate more ISK doing anomolies that in drone space, drone anomolies get nerfed and you just say it a good thing for the mining profession.

There is absoltely no reason to reside the the drone regions as it is. Did you know that the drone regions amount to 20% of all nullsec regions? They have the 2nd largest number of sov systems for a faction, yet you think the nerf they're having is fine. LOL, how about you get a clue about the ramifications of what you're saying before you post.

Sheesh, why bother posting? How do you think people in the drone regions should make money then? Just salvaging? Are you absolutely stupid? People in every other region generate more ISK doing anomolies that in drone space, drone anomolies get nerfed and you just say it a good thing for the mining profession.

There is absoltely no reason to reside the the drone regions as it is. Did you know that the drone regions amount to 20% of all nullsec regions? They have the 2nd largest number of sov systems for a faction, yet you think the nerf they're having is fine. LOL, how about you get a clue about the ramifications of what you're saying before you post.

Sheesh, why bother posting? How do you think people in the drone regions should make money then? Just salvaging? Are you absolutely stupid? People in every other region generate more ISK doing anomolies that in drone space, drone anomolies get nerfed and you just say it a good thing for the mining profession.

There is absoltely no reason to reside the the drone regions as it is. Did you know that the drone regions amount to 20% of all nullsec regions? They have the 2nd largest number of sov systems for a faction, yet you think the nerf they're having is fine. LOL, how about you get a clue about the ramifications of what you're saying before you post.

That's not the point. Its about your space that you have worked hard building an outpost and upgrading getting nerf'd out from under you on the whim of the Devs. Yes, people will gravitate to the new better space, but it sucks for those on the receiving end of the nerf. And before anyone spouts off about Russian bots its not about that either. Its a nerf to at the keyboard players who run the sites.

Great expansion CCP, but this one thing sours the hole thing for those of us in drone. Especially as you give the other anoms a boost.

Im sorry, was afk and missed the tears, could you do it again please?

The truth is, people in the drone regions have been getting away with murder for years with those 10-15 minute hordes, to the detriment of miners who should be the primary source of minerals in the game. What you are doing is the same kind of crying the mission runners did when ccp turned off the unholy mineral faucet in lvl 4 missions (which also hurt the mining profession).

. CCP has known it was a problem for a long time and they are finally fixing it. Sorry your gravy train came to an end, but such is eve. You can always take up mining, or move to a real region lol.

So your argument is that you have a personal attachment to the space because of the time and effort you have invested in it? Should CCP intervene if someone decides to attempt to take your space from you in game?

If you want better space, go take it.

So you're saying that drones shouldn't drop alloys and also that drones shouldn't have bounties or any other means of ISK revenue? I just want to clarify exactly what you mean.

So you're saying that drones shouldn't drop alloys and also that drones shouldn't have bounties or any other means of ISK revenue?

Did I say anything about bounties?

I have no problem with people shooting drones to somehow generate isk, although I personally prefer my NPCs be of the pirate persuasion (Death To Guristas and all that).

The problem was they WAY they generated isk (not for me, but for miners, and by extension, for the rest of the game). CCP seems to be trying to fix that, and that's fine with me.

Actually, I think drones should drop alloys. Minerals should come from ore only. Drones should drop tags like Sleepers do that need to be resold in empire (this is actually a buff IMO, as it means less trucking around alloys).

I also think all regular rats (non commander/officer) should only result in metal scraps for salvage. Salvage should solely come from mag sites (yay buff to mag sites).

What would drone alloys be used for?

Fair enough that sleeper tags have to be sold in empire, but I think the ability to sell drone tags should be in any station/outpost. Getting things in and out of nullsec (especially if you're a long way out) can be a royal pain in the arse.

If something has been changed to make hoards worse then I would say the complaint is legit, though it has not been explained exactly what has changed.

For one, if the stuff comes in waves, is that a change? If the drones target everything in mission area, then hold back the noctois.

If you are multiboxing wait for the area to be cleared before puting in notis, while that char is salvaging the stuff in the thousands of M3 your other char can clear a new site

if not multiboxing, well you have to clear the area anyway before reshiping, no salvaging is not safe in industirals with any rats present.

If you are using a maurader does a all in one ship work, or do the presence of rats now prevent tractoring and cycling the salvager.


If whatever change is a problem, clearly state how it is a problem.

Actually, I think drones should drop alloys. Minerals should come from ore only. Drones should drop tags like Sleepers do that need to be resold in empire (this is actually a buff IMO, as it means less trucking around alloys).

I also think all regular rats (non commander/officer) should only result in metal scraps for salvage. Salvage should solely come from mag sites (yay buff to mag sites).

So your argument is that you have a personal attachment to the space because of the time and effort you have invested in it? Should CCP intervene if someone decides to attempt to take your space from you in game?

If you want better space, go take it.

Hell no, CCP should not intervene if someone wants the space and attacks. That's kind of the point of the game. In this case CCP is coming in and devaluing the space. There are no reinforcement timers for that bullsh*t.

Well its good that you're smart enough to see it in that light.

Now, take it the next step and realize THIS IS A GOOD THING. Devalued space means other space is more valuable.

You want value? Leave the drone regions.

Try to guess what will happen if everyone will leave drone regiones

If something has been changed to make hoards worse then I would say the complaint is legit, though it has not been explained exactly what has changed.

For one, if the stuff comes in waves, is that a change? If the drones target everything in mission area, then hold back the noctois.

If you are multiboxing wait for the area to be cleared before puting in notis, while that char is salvaging the stuff in the thousands of M3 your other char can clear a new site

if not multiboxing, well you have to clear the area anyway before reshiping, no salvaging is not safe in industirals with any rats present.

If you are using a maurader does a all in one ship work, or do the presence of rats now prevent tractoring and cycling the salvager.


If whatever change is a problem, clearly state how it is a problem.

Can a dev please explain to me how they are balanced with bounty space for the individual player?

Can you explain to us why they need to be balanced?

Can you explain to us why you think we needed a nerf to be balnaced if being balanced does not matter?

We can go round and round about this. The simple fact is that CCP just hit drone regions with the nerf bat again because the rest of the players cant handle the fact that we make a living in the worst space in the game and make it look easy.

I love how people who DON'T live in these areas are so quick to argue about something they obviously know nothing about...


I also love the snarky comments they make like, "Well maybe it shouldn't be balanced," and "go find somewhere else to live" when I know without any doubt whatsoever that they'd be screaming bloody murder if THEIR gameplay was affected...


So I'll respond to all of them with this comment:

"I didn't ask you for your opinion, so STFU...."

That work for you? Good.


Personally I thought the Hordes were just fine as they were, and I've only been running them now for about a month, busting my a$$ to get the right skills, the right ship, the right fittings, buying BPO's for the drones/fighters, etc... Now it's becoming pretty obvious that carriers - already being useless for PvP - are useless for PvE as well.

So I challenge CCP to address these concerns, as they've now made the "hardest" drone site one of the least valuable. And for those of you who aren't affected by this issue, I invite you to mind your own damned business.

I think it is fairly obvious that, regardless of how much anyone agrees or disagrees with the concept of certain space being of dramatically lower value (or higher opportunity cost), CCP is trying to push drone-residents to get mobile and start hassling other regions for "better," space.

Ultimately, it makes little difference what we think about equitable anom equivalents. CCP has made it's agenda clear ages ago and they clearly think that this is their best bet to get sov. wars going again. Since the NC was evicted, I'll be they even think their plan has been a success thus far.

Personally, I don't think anything short of tech moons will ever be worth structure grinding over, but perhaps i'm under-estimating the boredom super pilots will experience without being able to smack subcaps around.

I think it is fairly obvious that, regardless of how much anyone agrees or disagrees with the concept of certain space being of dramatically lower value (or higher opportunity cost), CCP is trying to push drone-residents to get mobile and start hassling other regions for "better," space.

Ultimately, it makes little difference what we think about equitable anom equivalents. CCP has made it's agenda clear ages ago and they clearly think that this is their best bet to get sov. wars going again. Since the NC was evicted, I'll be they even think their plan has been a success thus far.

Personally, I don't think anything short of tech moons will ever be worth structure grinding over, but perhaps i'm under-estimating the boredom super pilots will experience without being able to smack subcaps around.

Sound thinking, but we may never know CCP's motivation for doing something like this.

we cannot salvage cause its comming in waves wich will kill our noctis fast.

Looks like a renter is rather butthurt. Maybe you could negotiate with your land lord for lower monthly payments since your farming anomalies were nerfed?

Nah, just complain here instead so we can all laugh at you.

also lol carriers useless for PvP; renters not so bright are they?

Vipieris is correct.

Sound thinking, but we may never know CCP's motivation for doing something like this.

Like I said, I'm more inclined to believe CCP's aim is more along the lines of fixing an old and pre-existing problem (the sheer amount of materials coming from drone regions, which affects markets AND a whole 'nother profession), just like they did when they nerfed loot drops from missions.

---

The people who have been spoiled by the old ways are complaining about it rather than trying to find ways to adapt. I don't fell sorry for them, the whole "shoot structure, get aggro, bring in noctis to salvage in complete safety" method was unfair to those of us who were NOT in drone regions. You know, us guys who have to kill the WHOLE sanctum to finish it lol.

Some of my drone region buddies are doing the same complaining, to which I said "can't you just put capital remote reps on your carrier and perma rep your noctis so it can survice the spawns?". They were all like "oh yea" lol.

Sorry drone regions require actual effort now, but thats EVE :) .

Well if the mighty DMC says so, then obviously this is the case.

Why are you posting about something you know nothing about?

The hordes ARE completed as they won't respawn if they're not (are you really that stupid?). Also, since when were people in the drone regions spoilt by the old ways considering the following:

Hordes gave less ISK value than Sanctums
Hordes needed to be salvaged to realise the value
The drone alloy had to be transported to a station for refining etc

The drone regions were always WORSE, so what is your point.

I'm considering putting bounties on them and turning them into normal rats.

I hate gunmining with a passion.

CCP Bettik has been going spreadsheet crazy; reviewing the average payout for anomalies and increasing their values. You will see more NPCs in anomalies and, best of all, more ISK in your wallet! A more detailed blog about the Anomaly rebalancing effort, by CCP Greyscale, will be published next week.

If you weren't terrible you could make ~300mil per hour running drone hordes with smart bombing carriers till they nerfed that.

Drone hordes always completed? No....everyone who lives there with a brain knows to just kill the bs, warp out and go next site. Warp in rorq/noctis a couple mins after to the last site when it has despawned.

Just go away please. You're a cocky little tw@t that gets an e-peen hardon by trolling and commenting on posts that you have no clue about.

Well, since CCP nerfed Drone Hordes, the Drone Regions have been lacking. I have come to a simple but brilliant solution.

Move all the drone sites from high/low/pirate nullsec to drone nullsec.

All those Rogue Drone Asteroid Infestations, Haunted and Chemical Yards, move them all to drone nullsec. You give the drone regions that much needed ISK buff they deserve, and you nerf safe highsec ISK farming!

A GM told me that the changes to the hordes was because the original triggers was a bug letting players bypass them,

Sorry guys but I didn't get where is the reason in nerf to Drone Hordes.
Before the nerf we had been making more efforts(salvage, collect, sale alloys or refine and build stuff) to earn the same money from dron region towards the regions with bounty.

And now, after last path you(CCP) presented gift for as. We cannot salvage while we do the horde which we need to do in order to get any money. This increases the time it takes to do a horde significantly. Which reduced ISK income.

Everything looks good by now, except drone regions. I think that we need to rework last changes that according to the drone regions.

Thanks. With hope that this problem will be solved.

We're talking about 1 week ago compared to today, not 'pluck a date out of the sky' compared to today.

Regarding the despawning, you're not getitng this gist of the problem, now that the drones can't all be spawned at once, you can't just kill BS and then bugger off. Also, AFAIK the site won't despawn if there are NPC's left in it.

Your last post said drone regions where always worse than normal npc space, I was just saying you were wrong. Up until Incursion (Nov '10) you could make easily x3-4 as much as people running anomalies in non-drone space.

When I did c5-6 wh we used to bring tanked proteus fit for tractor and salvager into the site so we can start clearing wrecks and collect loot instead of spending another 15-20mins doing it after the site is cleared. You can do the same in your drone anomaly :D

Why the personal attacks bro?

PS: If I disagree with you its a troll, amirite?

Why the personal attacks bro?

PS: If I disagree with you its a troll, amirite?

a) Yes, Hordes are worse than any Sanctum (the non drone 'equivalent'). and were still worse pre Crucible.

b) I don't really care what it was like a year ago, I'm comparing pre to post . Trying to create a comparison between a year ago and a week ago vs now is plain stupid.

c) You do realise that the alloys from a Horde take up approx 3000m3 of cargo space? Also, lol at trying to compare salvaging c5/6 wh's to salvaging hordes.

I just dislike your attitude. You come across as a spoilt brat that gets off on being annoying. I wouldn't get on with you ingame or out of game, simple.

Is it possible that they did investigate, and found that drones are making miners unneeded? I know this is a nerf to drone shooters, but it should be a much needed buff to miners.

*knock* *knock* it was not ccp it were the players who requested that :> Please read the csm notes of the past months especially may summit.

Well I dislike your face. OR LACK THEREOF.

You come across as a butthurt spaceship captain who takes things just a tad too seriously

amirite amirite?

use your brain...just because you salvage and collect loot in a can beside the proteus doesn't mean you have to haul it with proteus :D

Heh, talk about taking things a tad bit too seriously. Actually the personal attack was started by Emperor Salazar which was conveniently left out of the quote. However, this response just proves Sub Prime's statement is correct.

This type of reply is a classic example of a prepubescence immature mentality that is currently plaguing these Forums.

This type of behavior is uncalled for and is detrimental to the Community, these Forums and the game itself. Fortunately there's a 'Report' option and after submitting a few of those, there's another option called 'Petition'.

Citizens of Missions and Complexes!

Never fear!

DMC, the White Knight of Gotham is here!

He shall save us all from ourselves!

Yay.

ps: your little elitist "IM SO MATURE, YOU ALL NEED TO GROW UP AND STOP ACTING LIKE CHILDREN" attitude is a bad joke; a little anarchy and foolishness is good for humility...you know that thing that prevents you from being a pretentious douche?

also, while its all fun and games, I actually didn't start the personal attacks. I believe I was likened to a....lets see... cocky little tw@t that gets an e-peen hardon

hurp durp, thats not playing nice now is it?

DMC is still mad because he was the last pilot to discover that you could bypass certain gates in certain missions.

Well if the mighty DMC says so, then obviously this is the case.

Doing a complete horde site and salvaging now yields around 350 Plush, previously it was 800ish.

Well done on the stealth nerf CCP

TLDR: Mining the "old fashioned way" is as boring as ****, so is doing drone hordes but when compared to mining its an absolute shitload more tolerable. CCP's approach by nurfing the hordes to force people to go back to mining in a hulk to get the same mineral retruns is the equivilant of CCP cooking up porrige, telling everyone they put in the chef's own, fresh "special sauce with a side of assahirs" then shoving it down their throats regardless of their begs/cries to opt-out.

You are butthurt because I called you mighty? In what world is that a personal attack? I was commending your prowess.

But really, on a scale of 1 to copious amounts of vagisil, how butt hurt are you?

You're one of those guys that comes to a complete stop at a stop sign, waits 3 seconds, and slowly starts driving away again when its clear aren't you?

PS: I find it rather flattering that you are willing to put so much effort into defending the citizens of Missions and Complexes from all the trolls and meanies.

Wow bro - you really have a frightening infactuation with "butts". I wonder if you're a big Justin Bieber fan...

No no - I'm not asking, so don't tell...

Your language, attitude, and personality is disgusting, but I know your type: "I talk big on the internet 'cause I'm safe there."

The bottom line is, your comments are completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, and quite possibly the reason that CCP has seemingly ignored this thread. EVE (and I'll wager a guess humanity as a whole) would be better off if you just disappeared.

But go on ahead calling others "self-righteous" - I need fodder for a children's book I'm writing about pots accusing kettles...

Just did a Drone Horde in -1.0 on Sisi and got this:

Loot

Offtopic and inappropriate posts removed.

Please keep it civil.

EDIT: As CCP Greyscale mentioned in another topic, we are considering switching drones to bounties in order reduce the income disparity in these regions. Would be happy to hear your opinions on this.

Offtopic and inappropriate posts removed.

Please keep it civil.

EDIT: As CCP Greyscale mentioned in another topic, we are considering switching drones to bounties in order reduce the income disparity in these regions. Would be happy to hear your opinions on this.

dont worry, all of drone regions got nerfed so the alloys will be more valuable -> ull have ur isk back

also pretty sure other regions had multiple waves in anoms for as long as anoms existed

yea but you dont have to loot/salvage all your wrecks haul/refine and sell the minerals/build something and sell it to see a single isk. Dont post on subjects you have no idea about.

it was fine till this wave nerf


also why are u posting in a thread that has nothing to do with you?

Offtopic and inappropriate posts removed.

Please keep it civil.

EDIT: As CCP Greyscale mentioned in another topic, we are considering switching drones to bounties in order reduce the income disparity in these regions. Would be happy to hear your opinions on this.

Offtopic and inappropriate posts removed.

Please keep it civil.

EDIT: As CCP Greyscale mentioned in another topic, we are considering switching drones to bounties in order reduce the income disparity in these regions. Would be happy to hear your opinions on this.

While I am all for miners getting the income boost that would come of this, don't get me wrong..

Do you guys really think unleashing a Victoria sized isk faucet coupled with a mineral price spike is really the best route to take this? Idk.. I personally don't care as I would adapt, but I can already imagine the implications.

And having them drop 'sleeper' tags to sell to npcs is no different than isk on death bounty. Same thing, slightly more work.

IMO.. readjust their salvage drops, what kind.. how much.. yada yada. I think a wider player base would be more pleased with a rig cost reduction than an explosive market inflation from a massive isk waterfall turned on, coupled with a reduction in avialable minerals.

EDIT: And having drones drop/salvage something that only they can 'make' exist for the production of something would allow certain entities to complete control the market at this moment in time.. I personally have no horse in the race here.. but I would find that interesting, honestly. Might make the area.. more enticing to others and promote more null conflict which on a grand scale is.. lacking atm.

Offtopic and inappropriate posts removed.

Please keep it civil.

EDIT: As CCP Greyscale mentioned in another topic, we are considering switching drones to bounties in order reduce the income disparity in these regions. Would be happy to hear your opinions on this.

You act like there always has been drone regions.. the game was without alloys for years and years and was fine if not healthier. You acting like drone regions fell out of the sky and added 20,000 players.. the fact is those players have always been here. This would spike minerals for a short time but mining would actually become good agian and more and more people would mine and minerals prices would drop and stablize. To combat the isk faucet its simple.. TAKE INSURANCE OUT.<--- period

Some regions arent as good as others?

Well I never

Glad I moved from the drone region now.

Miners could never replace the amount of minerals that come from the drone region.

Everything will just get more expensive which is why miners are happy - they don't buy or lose as many ships as a pve or pvp player. Most are happy once the have a Hulk and an Orca. They buy the odd hulk when Hulk ganking season comes around but apart from that they are cost free.

More expensive ships just stops pvp and stops people experimenting with fits.

To give an opposite perspective to a miner:
I think plush should drop from all wrecks and salvaged wrecks should give ore too.
This would replace the ores that came from the drone region and help keep prices down - or maybe halve the material requirements on all Blueprints for the same effect.

You are butthurt because I called you mighty? In what world is that a personal attack? I was commending your prowess.

But really, on a scale of 1 to copious amounts of vagisil, how butt hurt are you?

You're one of those guys that comes to a complete stop at a stop sign, waits 3 seconds, and slowly starts driving away again when its clear aren't you?

PS: I find it rather flattering that you are willing to put so much effort into defending the citizens of Missions and Complexes from all the trolls and meanies.

Emperor...why do you use vagisil in your butt? You been sharing toys again?...

1/10, please resubmit your entry for a second review

we cannot salvage cause its comming in waves wich will kill our noctis fast.
it took me 15 mins before to do a site and salvage it now it takes me around 1 hour.
the system as is was before was good and with the buff they now made to the other regions it should now have ballance but no you nerfed to an point where you removed most of my corps will to play. we can earn more money in highsec just running 3 screens lvl 4 missions out here we have to kill wait for depsawn then salvage then freighter the stuff to high sec to sell it. it a ton of work and now it isnt worth it.
either put it back to the way it was before or drop the alloys and give us instant bounty officer loot faction loot etc.!

Not intended as a troll, but maybe you're doing it wrong then. Use marauders instead?