One that can at least tank and tackle (despite being slower) so backup can come finish off the enemy.

What I would like to see considered is a combat / mining hybrid ship.

One that can at least tank and tackle (despite being slower) so backup can come finish off the enemy.

Although I have seen the odd fella trying to PVP in mining barges so maybe the last buff was supposed to be just this.

Nobody mines in lowsec because the same ore is fairly abundant in highsec. To buff lowsec ore: remove lowsec ores from highsec, and nerf the nocxium output of pyroxeres.

no one does crap in low sec, there needs to be more reason to do it.

probe sites are good if you can find them, with this recon thing, its going to murder low sec.

make low sec profitable as it is dangerous!!!

From what you're saying it sounds like the quality of the ore isn't the problem, it's securing the miner.

Nope its the quality of the Ore that is the problem. LS Ore is the least profitable on the market and as such there is no incentive to fish it out. Without incentive for being there, of course it seems less secure.

NS and LS need to swap Ore and Moon Mineral seeding. Then people will live in LS.

While Low sec ores are actually the most valuable...

Lol wut?

Whatever feeble pulse low sec mining had will be snuffed out by the recon d-scan immunity. You'll be docking every time local changes. Although mining in a D-scan immune recon may be the way to go.

(Pro tip - dive a wh and mine there. ABC ores and a lower chance of getting ganked - you'll pay for your ship and pod many times over compared to getting ganked losses)

Short of making miners invincible in low sec, you will never see mining be popular there. Too many people want automated risk-free income.

if you make those rocks very very profitable people WILL come

if you make those rocks very very profitable people WILL come

You can't make those rocks more profitable than null sec or worm holes because worm holes are more dangerous and null sec you have to put in the effort to get SOV.
Null Sec then becomes safer and more profitable than low sec. Ergo, forget about low sec mining ever being a thing.

Edit: Actually, as much as I hate to say this, what you could do is make it so that mining anomolies have to be scanned down and only have this in low sec.
Then miners have a chance to hit a station or a POS when they see probes and then the risk is not so utterly terrible.

Mining anomalies should only be in low sec for null ore. Not in high or null is best solution I can see.

Maybe make people scan down mining anomalies also. So attackers have to apply slightly more effort.

Of the 8 Ore types best regional procurement is.
4 in HS
3 in NS
1 in LS

HS is the worst in 2/8
NS is the worst in 1/8
LS is the worst in 5/8

Until the clear regional disparity between Ore/Mineral procurement is changed, there will never be any reason for people to actively live in a region. LS absolutely needs more in the way of variety, while HS and NS both need to have an increase in scarcity.

Security is a secondary argument, because security will follow profits and necessity.

(This list is compiled based on the output weighting of each Ore found in each region, arguably HS is the best in them all because if you can't find a rock to chew, there is a high chance Jita or Amarr has what you are looking for anyway.)

Is low sec space designed to be owned and managed by the largest and best-organized groups? I would argue, "no." It is designed to be accessible and profitable for small corporations and individuals - and it currently is that.

This thread is premised on the idea that mining - a quintessential small group activity - is not attractive in low sec because it is not profitable enough to draw people there to do it. I would argue that people do not go there to do it because there are other things that make more sense for a solo or small gang pilot to do from a reward/risk perspective in that space.

Low sec exploration, belt-ratting, Level 5 missions, and FW are all accessible and profitable for small corporations and individuals. Yes, they accept greater risk for the greater rewards, but unlike null sec, you don't have to be very large and very well-organized to thrive and survive.

Im not sure where you get that argument from. All security levels of space should have the necessary tools for any size of group to survive and thrive. Arbitrary limitation based on some crackpot theory of "if you want to play big go to nullsec" is fundamentally flawed and a main reason why Low Sec is in the position it is today.

Counter argument: Every system that allows any size of groups to survive and thrive results in only the biggest groups to achieve just that as smaller groups can't use the tools as effectively, efficiently and comprehensible as big groups can. This kind of system puts small groups in a very disadvantageous position. A system that favors none, but makes it harder for certain group sizes to want to live in a given area is neither putting up arbitrary limitations nor does it discourage people from doing what they are doing.

So, you think all K-space should have access to all the basic building blocks required to live and build there? All along the progression from high sec to null sec? That no K-space should have to import basic materials?

I am okay with that, so long as high sec is the least profitable space and fails to provide most of the basic materials needed in Eve.

Moving more ore to losec would simply hand all mineral production to the largest groups who can control the area. No small group or solo player would ever get a look in.

That's your interpretation of my words, not what I said, ie. you didn't correctly understand what I said.

What I said is that a system which gives any group size the means to live in an area, only the biggest survive. It happened in Null sec already, where exactly this kind of system is in place.

Low sec is an attractive enough place as it is -- for the right kind of people. The only problem is that EVE lacks the right kind of people or they have died out over the last years. And now people want to change a perfectly fine system in ways that suits the lazy, convenience-driven player base instead of requiring the players to adapt to the perfectly fine working system, in terms of mining yield that is.

Where do you get that with the resource depletion? If no one is mining, as you and others constantly state, the belts should be full to the brim with roids and ore. I also see lots of very valuable ore anoms all over Low sec space, but no one to mine them. The ore is there. What we are missing are the right people, not just to mine them but also those who support them. And the last kind in particular is in utter shortage. Instead of seizing opportunities and trying something "new", people want to remove mining altogether and call miners things that're worse than "being the doormat of the game".

Low sec ores in order of value ranking.
1st, 4th, 7th.
If you count Kernite as low sec since it's mainly available there, 6th.
And this is with Crokite having a sudden resurgence in value.

Nothing is wrong with the value of low site ores, the Market dictates the prices.

Though you don't say how often you have to warp out, how much time it takes you to get your characters set up, whether you have to factor in the cost of a safe POS in the system, how much you can make mining those tiny rocks (compared to null anoms), whether you have access to an intel network that tells you who's around, and so on. These all impact the profitability of mining. And I can't imagine managing 14 characters mining little rocks that last only a few cycles in a low sec belt without some kind of "external help". it's easier in null when you're hitting a bistot roid that lasts for hours.

Your implications on large groups dominating lowsec is completely irrelevant however to actually making LS viable. If groups of people wish to band together and work as an organized group the resulting outcome is irrelevant. There is no system in place in LS that would cause one megagroup to be the end all be all. Hell that mentality doesn't even fly in NS. There are thousands and thousands of people who play every single day in NS without holding allegiance to one of the 2 big entities, and they are vibrant groups of people who are capable of living and operating in NS solely because it is actually capable of sustaining positive growth. LS in comparison is capped on the availability of randomly generated anomalies, and access to the Jita market. The differences are quite staggering and the only similarity is that Concord doesn't exist in either area.

I am not talking about value of ore. I am talking about procurement of minerals. Look at my list on the last page and see that LS ranks dead last in 5 of 8 categories while being the best in only 1. Whereas HS and NS have much more even spread among availability of ores.

Sure.... You are deliberately biasing the stats to suit your argument.

Yet the market outright disagrees with you on the value of low sec ores, which are valued purely by their mineral content.
Meaning your claims are irrelevant.

Also you can get 'high sec ores' in Low Sec as well, which makes the overall spread of minerals available in low sec much greater, as well as Null Minerals in Grav Anoms.

With regards to the last 2 sentences: What makes you think that way? As said above: people need to mine the regular belts. There is loads and loads of belts in Low sec, they are full of ore and they are replenished every day just like any other regular belt in the game. What makes you think that people should not have to mine regular belts just because they go to Low sec or Null sec? That attitude is the only thing that causes all the problems you and others see. You seem to think that you have an entitlement for easier and special things just because you go out of High sec. This is not the case. I know no one in High sec who overly complains about the relatively low ore yield of the regular belts, but I know a lot of people who constantly complain about that they don't have enough ore in anomalies or not enough ore anomalies to begin with in Low sec and Null sec. And I know a lot of people who complain about how dangerous ore anomalies are as PVPers can easily single them out an warp to your mining fleet.

With that in mind: Let's take a system with 10 belts and 3 ore anoms (one large, medium and small). What do you think is safer? Mining in the 1 viable ore anom or mining a random belt out of the many available? What could delay the most notable threat to your mining op, frigs and fast cruisers, more: warping to your anomaly as they know you are there, or trying to find you with the dscan in one of the belts?