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Wintermoon Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.09.09 18:11:00 - [31] For a more sensible reply then. They are all alright for gang warfare, lending considerable anti frigate firepower to the gang very cheaply. For solo work they only ever work under very specific circumstances. The cormorant being the most generic of the four. Four midslots lend themselves well to ECM (you'll have lost all your hair before finding a tank setup on those). Double optimal bonus and crazy tracking, competes with the harpy as the top notch frigate class sniper. Wins at being alot cheaper but loses at being so much easier to kill. Very nasty up close with all that ECM and some blasters. Thrasher is pretty damn good as well. Full rack of 280mm arties and you generally don't have to worry about the 25% ROF penalty much. The penultimate frigate crusher (the cormy outranges it though). The sick volley damage can even make some tech I cruisers worry. For short range it has more limited midslots than the cormy so it is generally alot less viable like that solo although it works in small gangs like that somewhat. Catalyst. Can squeeze out the highest DPS on this one with a few magic tricks. But that requires blasters. With no MWD/AB. And AWU 5. So basically only useful in station camping where you will always be in range of the target. You can always downgrade the firepower to smaller scale blasters but then the cormorant is just better due to more midslots. Does nicer volley damage with railguns than the cormorant though and has more space for damage mods. Coercer. The least versatile of them all. Only 1 midslot. Will not function properly without a gang. Could dish out some sick damage, but it is mostly EM/Thermal and the biggest frigate beam lasers don't fit even with AWU 5 and two or three MAPCs... Workable as a pulse laser platform but loses alot of the range and functionality when doing so. Better reply?
Murehk	Posted - 2006.09.09 18:40:00 - [32] So from what you've said the setup I have with ECM, blasters and NOS should be ok?
Wintermoon Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.09.09 18:41:00 - [33] Originally by: Murehk So from what you've said the setup I have with ECM, blasters and NOS should be ok? On the cormy, yup. Just be careful of the targets you pick.
Helene Troi Gallente TROJAN VENTURE	Posted - 2006.09.09 18:48:00 - [34] Originally by: Murehk Hi, I've flown caldari and gallente and minny up to BC but out of all the ships I've flwon I like destoyers the most. I've decided to train up so I can become the most uber destroyer pilot going... what skills do you think I should train (currently training for tech 2 turrets). I really like destroyers as I like having lots of firepower, also like BC's.(Recently.) You need destroyers trained to at least 4 and preferably 5... I have a catalyst and a thrasher, though I prefer the thrasher as I feel its a little more versatile... I've specifically trained:- all t2 small weapons targeting to 4 (gives the max 6 targets) and long range targeting all fitting skills In my experience the destroyer works best by the full gank set-up, if you blow up stuff before it can kill you you don't need a tank, though its best to have something there anyway... My only gripe:- Destroyers need more survivability to make them a complete step up from frigates and not just a frigate with a few extra gun slots... gl... Thrasher for level Three Missions! Rogue drone harrassment. Portal to War 1 and 5. The Missing Convoy.
Clais Monaige PPN United Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.09.09 19:03:00 - [35] Destroyers might not be the best ships out there, but as said they can make much fun. Don't go for tank as capacitor is not your friend. Try to max out the damage output besides the range - range is very versatile, imho. Prefer to fly them in a gang as Catalyst and Coercer suck in tackling (too less midslots), so you're the damage dealer who pops frigates from range. Don't go for bigger ships unless you can be sure you won't be targeted - destroyers aren't such an attractive target due to their limited capabilities and their relative low "thread level". Despite the low base speed it could be essential to go for speed, depending on situation of course. One thing i've experienced yesterday was that they have long warping range; guess that's fine when escaping or hunting, dunno. _____________________________ - be excellent to each other -
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.09.09 19:25:00 - [36] long warping range allows them to keep up with the fleet much better then a frigate class ship. they are limited and cant tank worth a damn but you can bet any frigate will know when a dessie shoots them. =)
Dorah Hawkwing Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.09 19:50:00 - [37] despite all the disregarding of the coercer in above posts, it actualyl fullfills it's role quite well. It denies any tackling frig the range to tackle in peace, and rips them apart. 27 km optimal with T2 Dual light beams is enough, and you can fit 8 of them, have 1600 armor HP's with fitting rooom left. Actualyl, at 27 km I'm not even using radio, and doing 150 dps). The coercer has 4 lows, wich allows it to play. The mid. Either AB, SB, or web. Your preffered pray usually will move out of scramble range fast anyway.. but dies in a few volleys. Destroyers are area deniel ships for interceptors. They exist to keep inty's away from your valuable big ships. And they exel at the job. For a destroyer, get your passive HP inceasre skils up, your small gun skill, sharpshooting, motion prediction, /the falloff skill), .. well, all the secondary gunery skills to increase efficiency, ROF, etc. And your cap management skills! Normally, you don't need much speed, as you are in a ship with tracking from hell and a range bonus.
Wintermoon Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.09.09 20:04:00 - [38] Originally by: Dorah Hawkwing [stuff about the coercer] It does function alright in gangs/fleets. But the thread author is also looking for solo possibilities (unless I am reading it wrong) where the coercer is quite limited. But yeah, all your points are valid if we are talking about gangs and fleets.
Murehk	Posted - 2006.09.09 20:30:00 - [39] Edited by: Murehk on 09/09/2006 20:33:14 Well I've just been dueling a PvP rax (small guns and 1600mm plate etc) in the setup I posted earlier and beat it 2 times outta 3. I figure though every cruiser kill I get will pay for another dessy. Basically as long as im reasonably lucky with ECM I win, fail more than 3 cycles and I die. Only happened once though so that aint bad going. Also once I grow more confident I'll fit better stuff and will also have more skills so should do better.
Lisento Slaven Amarr The Drekla Consortium New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.09.09 21:29:00 - [40] I'll tell you right now - 8x Dual Light Pulse II with the close up T2 ammo...uhh...conflag I think it is? That stuff on a coercer hurts =D The best description of the coercer is a guard dog or something along those lines. That's the description posted in one of those setup threads. Pack those dual light pulse II's with uber damage and toss in an afterburner or MWD (if you can fit it) and just bum-rush the first thing you can. You will pump out a lot of damage but you will undoubtedly die. A good tactic is having some friend(s) tackle and then warp in the destroyers. Destroyers pump out a lot of damage. Especially the thrasher and cormorant. I rig the Minmatar, Caldari, and Gallente destroyers all for long range. The Amarr one is the only one I would ever rig for close range chewing. Only because beams suck on frigs/dessies (beams take up too much grid/cpu...one of the two...can't remember which). Destroyers are there to destroy frigates. That's all. They do pump out a lot of damage but they take absolutely none. --- Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE. Put in space whales!
Iyanna Swift	Posted - 2006.09.09 21:56:00 - [41] Originally by: Lisento Slaven The best description of the coercer is a guard dog or something along those lines. Destroyers are there to destroy frigates. That's all. They do pump out a lot of damage but they take absolutely none. Yes. If you can stay out of fire, they can be great for protecting larger ships from smaller ones..... if they can stay out of fire. They're slow and they're delicate, tank shields or armor to buy you a little time, but I would fit a MWD and inertial stab to run since you'll need to in PVP. For PvE, I like them quite a bit against cruisers and battlecruisers and such, a MWD still can hit nearly 2 km/sec and despite the larger signature, orbit at 500m will still dodge most shots. You just have to fit lots of close range guns to decrease the time you need to stay lucky, turn off the MWD when close, and keep your finger near the warp button.... one nasty hit and half your hp could suddenly be missing. I really only use the range advantage when taking on frigates.... anything larger and you won't last long enough/shoot far enough to win most of the time if you keep a 25km+ distance.
Phant Zon Minmatar No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.09.10 04:40:00 - [42] Destroyers are truely very specific ships. I tend to fly them in fleets now and then, but even then your only one cruiser/battleship pilots itchy finger away from instant death. I like to use the Thrasher for ganking enemy scouts/frigs at gates, 3 sensor boosters in your mids and you lock as fast as a interceptor, and with a little luck your alpha can pop the jumper. The downside pretty much is that you are a glass cannon. If you dont warp the instant anything larger than a frigate takes a intrest in you, your toast, but then, destroyers are cheap.
Biotide	Posted - 2006.09.10 05:42:00 - [43] Originally by: Murehk Edited by: Murehk on 09/09/2006 20:33:14 Well I've just been dueling a PvP rax (small guns and 1600mm plate etc) in the setup I posted earlier and beat it 2 times outta 3. I figure though every cruiser kill I get will pay for another dessy. Basically as long as im reasonably lucky with ECM I win, fail more than 3 cycles and I die. Only happened once though so that aint bad going. Also once I grow more confident I'll fit better stuff and will also have more skills so should do better. I'm sorry but i just dont believe you could kill a rax. Try mine on for size and i assure you i would kill you no matter how much ECM you dump on me Bio
Vathar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.10 09:18:00 - [44] Originally by: Biotide Originally by: Murehk Edited by: Murehk on 09/09/2006 20:33:14 Well I've just been dueling a PvP rax (small guns and 1600mm plate etc) in the setup I posted earlier and beat it 2 times outta 3. I figure though every cruiser kill I get will pay for another dessy. Basically as long as im reasonably lucky with ECM I win, fail more than 3 cycles and I die. Only happened once though so that aint bad going. Also once I grow more confident I'll fit better stuff and will also have more skills so should do better. I'm sorry but i just dont believe you could kill a rax. Try mine on for size and i assure you i would kill you no matter how much ECM you dump on me Bio Well, the thing is, unless you're packing two racials (which won't always be the case), you're likely to miss a cycle, and then med drones will hurt you badly (med t2 drones are a must on a rax)! _ Originally by: Stamm Minmatar are kind of like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair firing an uzi
Murehk	Posted - 2006.09.10 09:25:00 - [45] Originally by: Biotide Originally by: Murehk Edited by: Murehk on 09/09/2006 20:33:14 Well I've just been dueling a PvP rax (small guns and 1600mm plate etc) in the setup I posted earlier and beat it 2 times outta 3. I figure though every cruiser kill I get will pay for another dessy. Basically as long as im reasonably lucky with ECM I win, fail more than 3 cycles and I die. Only happened once though so that aint bad going. Also once I grow more confident I'll fit better stuff and will also have more skills so should do better. I'm sorry but i just dont believe you could kill a rax. Try mine on for size and i assure you i would kill you no matter how much ECM you dump on me Bio Well I'm sorry but I did beat a rax, I didn't propally kill it because we we're only dueling but got though all of its armour. I would expect you to beat me though cos ull know I'd be flying a dessy with ECM, whereas the guy I was dueling and most ppl I'll be fighting won't. Also I would have thought I should be able to pop drones pretty snappy with a dessy. And I always have 3 of each racial ECM in cargo or a nearby station so I can just change before I go into a fight.
Garmon	Posted - 2006.09.10 11:51:00 - [46] Originally by: Murehk Edited by: Murehk on 09/09/2006 20:33:14 Well I've just been dueling a PvP rax (small guns and 1600mm plate etc) in the setup I posted earlier and beat it 2 times outta 3. I figure though every cruiser kill I get will pay for another dessy. Basically as long as im reasonably lucky with ECM I win, fail more than 3 cycles and I die. Only happened once though so that aint bad going. Also once I grow more confident I'll fit better stuff and will also have more skills so should do better. He wasn't using drones? :S
Mathias Orsen Gold-dust	Posted - 2006.09.10 13:54:00 - [47] good for 0.0 gate camping when you know a ceptor is coming... 7x 150mm rails and spike ammo with t2 sensor boosters... haven't gotten one set myself yet... but i do have one with 125mm rail IIs... optimal range of 40km and insta lock is nice... other than that.. they are rather useless ships. Strange how the only thing they are good at is exactly what they were designed to do... ---"What's in your wallet?"--- "There are two kinds of respect, fear and admiration.... I'll take what I can get"
Murehk	Posted - 2006.09.10 15:23:00 - [48] They are good at most things PvE wise. I did however also just take down a celestis with ease among other things while I was out hunting so it is quite an effective setup.
Vathar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.10 15:40:00 - [49] About drones, I have to admit that my sabre pops drones so fast it isn't even funny! Insane tracking of autocanons helps a lot ^^ _ Originally by: Stamm Minmatar are kind of like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair firing an uzi
Valtirix Gallente Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.09.11 20:48:00 - [50] Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen Most people who fly destroyers point out that they're crap, can't take damage, etc. And they're right. That's what makes it such an interesting class. The problem with it is that there are too many ships that can do what a destroyer can, but tank better or avoid fire better or something. But there is no ship that can match a destroyer for its specialized role: taking out frigs and inties. I leave out AF here because they count almost as cruisers and unless you get a noob AF pilot you'll probably end up owned. Of the destroyers, three are useful for special roles: The Cormorant, an excellent long range sniper. Most people don't think that cormorant will hit their inty from 110km but I wish I could see the look on their face when mine does The Thrasher is widely regarded as the "best" of the destroyers because you can stuff a bunch of t2 artillery on it and get a ridiculous alphastrike that will blow away most frigates and inties. However, if you do that you'll have virtually no tank. The Catalyst is great all-around and my personal favorite. It's excellent for shorter-range with rails (don't use blasters, you're not fast enough to) and a bit of faction ammo makes it go a long way. It has a more favorable "destroyer-type" slow layout as you (shouldn't) be fitting an AB or MWD anyway because your mass is very high and you can use the fittings for something better. The Heretic makes an excellent choice for reprocessing and construction into one of the three above. You'll need very high skills and some balls to take out a destroyer solo, but it's extremely effective if you choose the right situation to do it in. As was said before, anything not a frigate, interceptor, or another destroyer will rip you a new one. Good luck lol vmir, you posted that be4 u joined ck1 again hehe i bet u do hit ppl that far th ;)
Beef Hardslab	Posted - 2006.09.11 21:20:00 - [51] I'm pretty green but I must say I really enjoyed my Cormy. I used it mostly to protect my buddies mining in 0.5-0.6 space, and it excelled. I use 7 X 125mm rails w/Lead (Guristas are what spawn in our area), 1 X Standard Missile Launcher w/Bloodclaws. As for mids, I have a Cold Gas AB, C5-L Emergency Shield Overload, Shield Extender, and a passive Kinetic hardener. RCU in the low. While I had lots of fun with it, I am kind of disappointed in that Destroyers seem like a dead-end street - they don't really lead to anything. Now I find my buddies are ahead of the curve as far as pilotable ships go, they all have cruisers and I just finally got Cruiser today. I think I will go for a Caracal, as anything else I look at will take forever.
Winter QC Amarr Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.09.12 00:32:00 - [52] Edited by: Winter QC on 12/09/2006 00:33:02 Originally by: Valtirix lol vmir, you posted that be4 u joined ck1 again hehe i bet u do hit ppl that far th ;) Oh god, my eyes . Anyway, concerning Destroyers, I've been playing around with one for the last few days doing complexes and missions. While great for damage, it kinda sucks for tanking. Though it'd be possible to fit 2x 100MM Plates + Small Armor Rep (I'd need like 3 more PG on my Cormorant), it'd still be hard to take down cruisers, especially if it has drones. Though I've never tried ECMs, might change everything (aside from the drones part). EDIT: Plural ftw.
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.09.12 01:00:00 - [53] going from a cormarat to a caracal is dicey,I would either suggest the Moa, or a harpy.
Testicular Testes	Posted - 2006.09.12 01:31:00 - [54] Originally by: Vathar Other thing about destroyers: Alphastrike from a gankathrasher with 280mm arty is sweet I thought nobody would ever say it. Unfortunately the perfect gankthresher needs AWU IV and Electronics V, but it's hilariously fun. Anyways, tbh go down the Thrasher/Sabre route with maybe backup Cormorant/Flycatcher skilling. The Thrasher/Sabre both have very nice damage outputs and are both fast and versatile, whereas the Fly/Cormo can both ECM ***** and the Cormorant can snipe really well. It's actually a reasonable set to train for, as you don't need a whole lot of skills - small T2 turrets are top priority, then Destroyer IV or V and support gunnery, but after that you're free to do as you like (which is probably head towards interdictors). Oh, Nav is of course big on Destroyers (if you plan on flying AC Thrasher/Sabres much).
Snikkt Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.12 01:48:00 - [55] I love my Catalyst for running level 1 missions. I haven't had a problem yet. ------------------- If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Originally by: Aloysia Leyshon Shuttels are urban myth pure and simple. I've yet to see evidence of an actual shuttle.[/qu
K1K1R1K1	Posted - 2006.09.12 04:04:00 - [56] Personally, I wouldn't even consider the destroyer for close range combat. High sig, relativly low speed, 25% rof penalty.... they are fun ships to fly though. You just have to use them properly. The setup I use for my thrasher is: HIGH-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > [ 13 \| 12] 280mm Howitzer Artillery II [10xTremor S] > [ 13 \| 12] 280mm Howitzer Artillery II [10xTremor S] > [ 13 \| 12] 280mm Howitzer Artillery II [10xTremor S] > [ 13 \| 12] 280mm Howitzer Artillery II [10xTremor S] > [ 13 \| 12] 280mm Howitzer Artillery II [10xTremor S] > [ 13 \| 12] 280mm Howitzer Artillery II [10xTremor S] > [ 13 \| 12] 280mm Howitzer Artillery II [10xTremor S] > [ 0 \| 0] Launcher Slot MED-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~ > [ 1 \| 10] Sensor Booster I > [ 1 \| 10] Sensor Booster I > [ 1 \| 20] Passive Targeter I LOW-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~ > [ 1 \| 30] Gyrostabilizer II > [ 0 \| 18] Reactor Control Unit I Optimal: 45km Optimal+Falloff: 53.75km Alpha Strike: 850hp Reload Time: 8.8sec Targeting Range: 64km This will obviously vary depending on your skills, but needless to say few t1 frigs/inties will survive 2 salvos. Tracking at ranges of 30km+ is no problem. Best used in gangs to keeps tacklers off of bigger ships. You can swap the passive targeter for a tracking computer if you want, but I like to think the passive targeter makes you less likely to become the target of your prey (even after you fire the overview doesn't show that you have them locked). If you plan on going solo though, it could be an even greater asset There is a setup one of my friends was tinkering with involving 7x 250mm howitzers and quake ammo, but I haven't tested it personally and believe tracking would become a major issue. P.S. -ALWAYS- stay aligned... ____________________________________________ Don't worry aboutit
Karl Mattar Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.12 05:07:00 - [57] We've found Destroyers to be particularly good ships for new pilots to field in wartime. They are excellent at killing enemy drones from range. Both the Coercer and the Cormorant have proven remarkably effective at this job. That said, you certainly don't want to fit them with anything more than base T1 modules, as they will pop the moment something big swings at you. But when you figure you can fit one out for less than a million ISK, who cares if you lose it? In our last war, my Destroyer counted for nearly 50 million ISK in dead T2 drones, and it survived intact. Most targets were too busy shooting at our battleships to bother targetting a Destroyer that wasn't targetting them. And by the time they noticed who was killing their drones, it was usually too late to do much about it. I did warp out several times with flames engulfing my ship though. :) If you have a huge gang, and don't want to be just another battleship, take up escort duty and fly a Destroyer. It's certainly a blast. Fit everything for offense, and no tank whatsoever. Just warp away when you get targetted. If you are lucky, you'll even make it.
Beef Hardslab	Posted - 2006.09.12 13:33:00 - [58] Originally by: Audri Fisher going from a cormarat to a caracal is dicey,I would either suggest the Moa, or a harpy. Why do you say that? I looked at a Moa, but TBH I thought it was ugly as sin, not to mention it takes more skills and has less cargo. As far as a Harpy, sure I'd love to pilot one, but as I am only a couple weeks old it will be a while - that's a lot of level 5 skills. The Caracal seemed to me somewhat similar to a destroyer tactics-wise... come in at range and alphastrike. Instead of 7 turrets and a missile launcher, it's 5 missile launchers.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.09.12 14:47:00 - [59] Destroyers are such a sweet ship class its too bad CCP doesnt care about them because any buff to the destroyer would make the AF lobby angry that a T1 ship might be better then their T2 ship(and you know you cant have that Anti-Frigate ship being better then a frigate or anything).
Ominus Decre Amarr Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.12 16:06:00 - [60] Coming from someone who's a fan of the destroyer class ships let me say: THEY SUCK! The only one I use is the Coercer. Many players are narrow mindedly biased and these are the ones you typically catch off guard. With a heavy investment into skills for gunnery, engineering and electronics you just might have someone talking more smack after the engagement then before it. They tend to use a lot of "IF's" such as, "if the game wasn't lagging I would have beat you", "if my sister didn't need the computer I would have stayed" "if my Mom didn't need to check her email.." etc... It's funny at times. When you're able to stand up against someone they will occasionaly ask what and how you've got the desty fitted. The destroyers are a niche roll in a fleet operation. they have LOTS of diversity which requires players to think outside-of-the-box. (8 smartbombs with 2x 400mm plates) (NOS w/ remote armor, shield & cap transfers) (8 Medium Pulse Beam II's - check the dps on a Coercer with this fit out) The coercer is an 8/1/4 fit out and they are pretty potent with Medium Beam laser II's. Tech 1 destroyers are dirt cheap and a good means to provide a healthy does of fire power with minimal investment of ISK. Destroyers suck. Anything you can do with a destroyer you can do better with a different ship. The _ONLY_ reason to use a destroyer is for rollplay or when attempting to minimize the ISK spent on firepower. I can solo rat in 0.1 in the Coercer without any trouble (unless there's 4-5 cruisers w/ BCs) and you can even tank a Battleship in 0.0 if you know what you're doing. Destroyer pilots fly with white knuckles! When it comes down to practicality you'll not find it in a Destroyer. The Interdictors are strictly designed for the roll of subversion and, gasp, interdiction. A good player who knows the game and the ship can make them shine but it's not a common sight. There's a terrible deffiency with the Destroyers. they do not have second or third tier ships nor an actual anti-frigate tech 2 version. We need a fleet support destroyer (like a mini-command ship) and an assault destroyer (should eat through frigate class ships). Problem here would be "balance". I'm betting the balancing concerns are the primary reason why the ships suck so damned bad. Bottom line, we need: Tier 2-3 Destroyers, 1 new ship per race, focus should be on speed and resistences. Tech 2 Destroyers, 2 ships per race, 1 to serve as a mini-command ship for frigate class gangs, 1 to serve as an Assault Destroyer with emphasis upon speed, damage and resistences. Think out side of the box. 2% per level would be decent for some modifiers (think, balance) whereas other bonuses should recieve upwards of 5% or even 7% per level. I would also expect a heavy skill requirement and serious specialization to be needed to use the fictious tech 2 Assault Destroyer; should be like learning a mini-battlehip. Boobies:

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