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OrangeAfroMan Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.09.13 02:28:00 - [61] Man, this forum is a classic example of "group think." One or two people who are very new come along and complain about Amarr, then those people who read them believed, and passed on the misinformation. The model just keeps growing and growing.. In almost any thread, like a recent thread asking for advice about interceptors, somebody told them Amarr suck, and he just said "Oh ok" and accepted it. :/ Gronsak is Tux's angry alt.
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2006.09.13 04:15:00 - [62] Happens when people don't try ships out on there own and rely on input from people who might not know anything about it. Eve is pretty balanced for the most part ship wise. Some ship combos are pretty overpowering no dout. However, all combos can be countered. This isn't WoW where there is no real way to stop leet warrior from leet one shotting you with his big axe other than running like a little girl. When you fly ships in eve. Just think of them as a sandbox. You have a whole world of options out there. Maller suck? Only if you suck using it. Same goes for the Rupture. Tactics + Any Ship + Fitting + Experience = Win
Benjamin Olson	Posted - 2006.09.13 19:21:00 - [63] Edited by: Benjamin Olson on 13/09/2006 19:21:49 Haimeh. Someone who thinks the maller can win a fight, meet me in haimeh and send me an Email. For a fight against a Rupture. Any skilled minmatar pilot will drop a Maller in seconds. Tank or no Tank. And its not like were pulling numbers out of our rumpius maximus...we use the ships on a daily basis for ratting or missions. We KNOW they suck, and it gets annoying when people tell us to "shutup" or "screw it" and they havent used a Maller once in their lives. I believe it was mentioned in this thread earlier? EVE physics > Amarr.
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2006.09.14 02:51:00 - [64] Originally by: Benjamin Olson Edited by: Benjamin Olson on 13/09/2006 19:21:49 Haimeh. Someone who thinks the maller can win a fight, meet me in haimeh and send me an Email. For a fight against a Rupture. Any skilled minmatar pilot will drop a Maller in seconds. Tank or no Tank. And its not like were pulling numbers out of our rumpius maximus...we use the ships on a daily basis for ratting or missions. We KNOW they suck, and it gets annoying when people tell us to "shutup" or "screw it" and they havent used a Maller once in their lives. I believe it was mentioned in this thread earlier? EVE physics > Amarr. Experience > Your input
Zosimos Sabina Amarr Loot	Posted - 2006.09.14 03:58:00 - [65] No doubt the Maller isn't a pushover, but it sure isn't a Rupture :/ Sure, I could fit a Maller to blow up a Rupture, but hopefully we're discussing general purpose pvp fits here. I just think cruiser-sized lasers need a serious fitting reduction, and quad light beams need to move to the pulse category so we can use conflag with them. I dislike SAR + 1600mm + Frig lasers, but it only makes sense with the fitting reqs on cruiser lasers being so high, with only a 10-15% dps increase; reduced vs frigs ofc. If you could actually put a decent tank and cruiser lasers on the Maller, it'd be greatly improved.
Commander Thrawn Fluffy rabbit killer's inc	Posted - 2006.09.14 04:00:00 - [66] Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Happens when people don't try ships out on there own and rely on input from people who might not know anything about it. Eve is pretty balanced for the most part ship wise. Some ship combos are pretty overpowering no dout. However, all combos can be countered. This isn't WoW where there is no real way to stop leet warrior from leet one shotting you with his big axe other than running like a little girl. When you fly ships in eve. Just think of them as a sandbox. You have a whole world of options out there. Maller suck? Only if you suck using it. Same goes for the Rupture. Tactics + Any Ship + Fitting + Experience = Win funny comming from a minmatar char... i fly almost exclusively amarr bar my barger2 :P then again, i fly almost exclusively amarr tech2 ships with the exemption of BSs amarr tech1 cruisers and frigs blow.(not counting the arbitrator) you cannot fit heavy pulse on either the maller or the omen. its virtually impossible unless you fit in some RCU. 2 on the omen it you want a rep and after burner. it is absolutly horrible. the maller is tank wise but its dmg output is so sad any other tier3 cruiser in game will *****it, even the moa which is a crappy cruiser will beat it. vexor>maller thorax>maller caracal>maller moa>maller rupture>maller Stabber>maller omen>maller its really a bad ship fly one and see how well you do. im dead serious
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2006.09.14 12:34:00 - [67] Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 14/09/2006 12:34:38 Originally by: Commander Thrawn Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Happens when people don't try ships out on there own and rely on input from people who might not know anything about it. Eve is pretty balanced for the most part ship wise. Some ship combos are pretty overpowering no dout. However, all combos can be countered. This isn't WoW where there is no real way to stop leet warrior from leet one shotting you with his big axe other than running like a little girl. When you fly ships in eve. Just think of them as a sandbox. You have a whole world of options out there. Maller suck? Only if you suck using it. Same goes for the Rupture. Tactics + Any Ship + Fitting + Experience = Win funny comming from a minmatar char... i fly almost exclusively amarr bar my barger2 :P then again, i fly almost exclusively amarr tech2 ships with the exemption of BSs amarr tech1 cruisers and frigs blow.(not counting the arbitrator) you cannot fit heavy pulse on either the maller or the omen. its virtually impossible unless you fit in some RCU. 2 on the omen it you want a rep and after burner. it is absolutly horrible. the maller is tank wise but its dmg output is so sad any other tier3 cruiser in game will *****it, even the moa which is a crappy cruiser will beat it. vexor>maller thorax>maller caracal>maller moa>maller rupture>maller Stabber>maller omen>maller its really a bad ship fly one and see how well you do. im dead serious See you think it's all about the DPS. Trying to fit heavy pulses on a maller, tisktisk. Yes, I am heavly spec'ed in minmatar ships and utility. That means, when I fly a rupture, I bring the pain to the max. So I know what the ship can do as far with relation to my skillset. Maller can beat any Tech 1 cruiser in the game. More to the Maller or any cruiser to that fact than trying to get the best DPS. My rupture has more DPS than my Claw. Claw pilot can still own my Rupture. When you can understand how something with a smaller tank, less DPS, and cheaper ship can defeat my Rupture. Then you can understand how a Maller can defeat any ship.
Rant Anplan	Posted - 2006.09.14 12:52:00 - [68] Originally by: Zosimos Sabina Edited by: Zosimos Sabina on 14/09/2006 04:21:24 No doubt the Maller isn't a pushover, but it sure isn't a Rupture :/ Sure, I could fit a Maller to blow up a Rupture, but hopefully we're discussing general purpose pvp fits here. If you could fit a Maller that blows up a Rupture you have found a general purpose fitting.
Mjukisdjur	Posted - 2006.09.14 13:04:00 - [69] plz! every body is talking about rupture vs maller, but how about the moa and rax! MOA: whit 4 t2 blasters and 2 t2 heavy and in medslots you will need to fit a cap injector so you will have the cap now you will need speed to get close and a weeb the other slots you can have shieeld resistens and in low armor repair 1x rcu and 1 energis adaptiv nano plate t2 and a medium armor extender :) now ofc you will need good skills but now this ship has a much dps and whit the 2 heavy missiles that can do the big things on the armor and the blastars is going ti kill your armor repair!!! ofc do some thing like this on a rax! so now everybody the moa is a realy good ship
Nicocat Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.14 14:26:00 - [70] A Maller was part of a group that attacked my fully best-T1 kitted Cyclone yesterday. I can safely say that I didn't know a Maller could tank like that. Kudos to the pilot, and thank you for the fabulous loot. ---------------------------- The opinions expressed by Nico do not reflect his corporation. He's just an ass. -Alexi Yes, I PvP in a Hookbill. How insane am I? EVE-Mail me and tell me!
inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.09.14 14:32:00 - [71] Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Maller can beat any Tech 1 cruiser in the game. More to the Maller or any cruiser to that fact than trying to get the best DPS. My rupture has more DPS than my Claw. Claw pilot can still own my Rupture. When you can understand how something with a smaller tank, less DPS, and cheaper ship can defeat my Rupture. Then you can understand how a Maller can defeat any ship. A Claw beats your rupture by orbiting faster than your 220mm can track, by being fully passive (and hence resistant to Nos) and by being small enough that missiles won't hurt it significantly. And a Maller does all that, does it?
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2006.09.14 14:36:00 - [72] Rupture will win vs all cruiser in any situation... gankthorax will die when rupture has 80% armor , with 1600mm plate or with mwd speed setup and using falloff. 0 cap wont hurt it and it deals great dps from quite far out. imo rupture is impossible to kill when facing a good rupture pilot, it just cannot be done... excluding special implants or faction/officer stuff on other cruiser. But i would find that odd. _________________________________________________
Nicocat Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.14 14:48:00 - [73] Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 14/09/2006 12:34:38 Maller can beat any Tech 1 cruiser in the game. More to the Maller or any cruiser to that fact than trying to get the best DPS. My rupture has more DPS than my Claw. Claw pilot can still own my Rupture. When you can understand how something with a smaller tank, less DPS, and cheaper ship can defeat my Rupture. Then you can understand how a Maller can defeat any ship. Funny, my Rupture doesn't have Inty trouble. idly strokes his set of Hornet IIs ---------------------------- The opinions expressed by Nico do not reflect his corporation. He's just an ass. -Alexi Yes, I PvP in a Hookbill. How insane am I? EVE-Mail me and tell me!
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.09.14 14:57:00 - [74] OK. Rupture vs Maller. We're all agreed, the Rupture is one of the best cruisers out there. There will always be one ship that's better than others in any given class; true balance is impossible. However, of all ship classes, cruisers are one of the most balanced; Mallers aren't so far removed from Ruptures that a better player won't win. Now for example compare a Dominix vs an Apoc, where even a bad Dominix pilot would beat an Apoc if it caught one. Really, the Maller is an amazing tanking ship. Tanking ships are generally not so good in direct PvP, but they do have roles. It's not a gunship; nerfing other ships or boosting the Maller will never make it compete in that department. That being said, if anyone would like a Maller vs Rupture fight - I'll fly the Maller - please feel free to give me a shout in-game. Scrapheap Challenge Forums - All the cool kids are doing it!
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2006.09.15 02:01:00 - [75] Originally by: inSpirAcy Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Maller can beat any Tech 1 cruiser in the game. More to the Maller or any cruiser to that fact than trying to get the best DPS. My rupture has more DPS than my Claw. Claw pilot can still own my Rupture. When you can understand how something with a smaller tank, less DPS, and cheaper ship can defeat my Rupture. Then you can understand how a Maller can defeat any ship. A Claw beats your rupture by orbiting faster than your 220mm can track, by being fully passive (and hence resistant to Nos) and by being small enough that missiles won't hurt it significantly. And a Maller does all that, does it? Nope, it's the point of tactics and everything else that plays a major role in PvPing. This whole thing about ships winning be default is wrong. Don't know why anyone is asking for duels. Just fit 1 minmatar racial and your maller just won. That goes for the Moa vs Rupture as well. So many things play a major role in a win it's not even funny. The cries about the mallers DPS is not good enough. The DPS is normal and can be above normal. The tanking is supurb because of it's lows and having the most PG of the cruisers. Only think you should really have a right to ***** on is having no drone bay :)
Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2006.09.15 02:14:00 - [76] Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Originally by: inSpirAcy Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Maller can beat any Tech 1 cruiser in the game. More to the Maller or any cruiser to that fact than trying to get the best DPS. My rupture has more DPS than my Claw. Claw pilot can still own my Rupture. When you can understand how something with a smaller tank, less DPS, and cheaper ship can defeat my Rupture. Then you can understand how a Maller can defeat any ship. A Claw beats your rupture by orbiting faster than your 220mm can track, by being fully passive (and hence resistant to Nos) and by being small enough that missiles won't hurt it significantly. And a Maller does all that, does it? Nope, it's the point of tactics and everything else that plays a major role in PvPing. This whole thing about ships winning be default is wrong. Don't know why anyone is asking for duels. Just fit 1 minmatar racial and your maller just won. That goes for the Moa vs Rupture as well. So many things play a major role in a win it's not even funny. The cries about the mallers DPS is not good enough. The DPS is normal and can be above normal. The tanking is supurb because of it's lows and having the most PG of the cruisers. Only think you should really have a right to *** on is having no drone bay :) Ok Mallers tank > Ruptures tank Mallers damage...wait, the maller puts out damage? Mallers ability to beat a general setup Rupture of the same skills... 0. It cant tank any better than any other cruiser save it may have a tad more cap..which is outweighed by the fact that any pvp ships now carries NOS. And the Mallers DPS is too little to break a mining ospreys ratting tank so any ship with nothing in their low slots save a small armor rep can tank it... That and theres the whine "Lasers arent broken, it just so happens AC's work better." That has to be the best oxy-moronic statement of this forums. "Amarrs weapons arent broken, they just suck so much other race's weapons work better EVEN when Amarr has a bonus to lasers..." Is actually what you guys are saying. Originally by:** Angus McLean Basically we've established, EVE physics < Amarr
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.09.15 02:36:00 - [77] A good Ruppie pilot pwns a Maller. If you think you have some "ubersekritomgpwnage" setup for the Maller evemail it to me. I have pretty much maxed amarr and fitting skills. I have tweaked, tricked, and fit mallers every which way to Sunday and they are just sub-par compared to the Rax or Ruppie. I will try your setup daily in pvp for a week. If it really is good I will post back (and will not list your setup if you so prefer) here and readily admit that I was wrong, and your Maller setup is wonderful/uber/omgbbq. TBH I don't think anyone is going to mail me. Anyone who mails me a setup that says "OMG fitz 3 of teh Phaze Jammerz" gets a hearty "FU!" back from me in true amarrian dictator style. The real root issue is the imbalance between Tanking and Damage cruisers. While the Moa and Maller have minor problems in and of themselves the core issue is the lack of CPU/Grid needed for tanking ships to be able to tank better. You see, when you fit the Tier 3 cruisers with equivalent guns/missiles you will find they all have about the same Grid/CPU left over. In this situation the damage bonus on the Rax and Ruppie means that they will do more DPS than the Tanking ships. This is fine. But in order for the Maller/Moa to fit a noticably better tank they have to downgrade thier weapons. Now, even with equivalent weapons the tanking ships are doing less than HALF the damage of the damage cruisers. Cruiser DPS When you really tank a Maller (which should be playing to thier strength) you increase the damage gap even farther, at which point you can tank better than another Tier 3, but it doesn't matter because they can do twice your dps. If you gave the Maller/Moa a lot more grid/CPU so that they could fit a big tank AND the decent weapons they would still do vastly less damage than thier counterparts, but the smaller dps differential would make it so that the increased tanking may actually make a difference. This is why you see so ppl suggesting maller setups with ACs. The low fitting/cap actually lets you fit a tank impressive enough to make a difference in the fight while maintaining "non-laughable" dps. SUMMATION: Ships with tanking bonuses need more grid/cpu than thier damage counterparts. Even with similar weapons they do less DPS (a lot) but need the extra fittings to fit a marginally better tank. One last thing: BOOST ENERGIZED REGENERATIVE MEMBRANES TO GIVE +50% TO ARMOR. DO THE EQUIVALENT FOR SHIELD MODS. It provides hitpoints to make fights last longer, something decent to actually stick in all those extra low slots Amarr ships have laying about, and no "oversizing" problems. Boost tanking FFS! Nyxus PS- More "tanking" items that are on different stacking penalties would be nice as well. There just arent very many "omgmusthave" low slot items. Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Cohkka LoneWolf Mining R i s e	Posted - 2006.09.15 02:49:00 - [78] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: twisted 1 well, best cruisers is: no particular order.. Thorax Rupture Blackbird Caracal(ew ftw!) + Vexor Actually this is the single most pwn cruiser. Wonder why everyone mentiones the Thorax first when they're asked about the best cruisers. I used to fly duramaller for quite a while, it served me very well, never realy used a Rupture. Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5...
jerrard iceni	Posted - 2006.09.15 07:40:00 - [79] Originally by: Angus McLean That and theres the whine "Lasers arent broken, it just so happens AC's work better." That has to be the best oxy-moronic statement of this forums. "Amarrs weapons arent broken, they just suck so much other race's weapons work better EVEN when Amarr has a bonus to lasers..." Is actually what you guys are saying. i always thought (and cant be bothered to double check atm) that certain armarr ships, like the maller, dont have any bonni that effect weapon damage, fall off, optimal etc. so i really cant see why it matters if people want to fit ac's to mallers instead of lasers, certainly not a bad thing.
Robke	Posted - 2006.09.15 08:49:00 - [80] Originally by: jerrard iceni i always thought (and cant be bothered to double check atm) that certain armarr ships, like the maller, dont have any bonni that effect weapon damage, fall off, optimal etc. so i really cant see why it matters if people want to fit ac's to mallers instead of lasers, certainly not a bad thing. They do not have a dmg bonus, but they do have a bonus to lasers. If even projectile weapons without a bonus are better than lasers with a bonus, don't you think that is an imbalance? Maller boni: Special Ability: 10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret capacitor use per level and 5% bonus to all Armor Resistances per level.
Yuki Li Caldari Omerta Syndicate Pure.	Posted - 2006.09.15 09:53:00 - [81] Depends on specific fit this one i think. Looks like ALOT of you underrate the Maller, it's a very, very capable cruiser, and one i really don't like fighting because of the way it tanks. I'd rather fly a Stabber than both, though Website / Forums / Recruiting
MacDuncan Minmatar Unknown Society	Posted - 2006.09.15 10:55:00 - [82] Edited by: MacDuncan on 15/09/2006 10:56:06 Even if i prefer a Rupture over a Maller every day without even thinking about it (Minmi cruiser Lvl5 vs. Amarr cruiser Lvl4, all small & med T2 projektiles + secondary skills maxed vs. T2 small lasers Lvl3 e.g.), i had some really nice fights while sitting in a Maller...especially against minor frig swarms...:-) --
Dred 'Morte Sabre Inc Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.09.15 11:09:00 - [83] Edited by: Dred ''Morte on 15/09/2006 11:10:27 Quote: Lots of stuff how Maller sucks by Nyxus The only problem of the Maller is lack of cpu. I do have a nice setup on my Maller, fitted to fight almost any kind of cruiser. I have yet only had a chance to duel my boss Thorax and I defeated it. No I won't evemail you the setup, however, if you can come to Obe, I'll gladly have a duel with your maller or whatever cruiser The trick is thinking out of the box. Signature made by Mr Floppykickners
Wolverine PL Gallente Bermuda Syndrome	Posted - 2006.09.15 12:04:00 - [84] Rupture with pasive tank (1600plate, no rep, cruiser size guns) should kill maller with ease. Rupture is best cruiser in game, second would be vexor not maller.
Dred 'Morte Sabre Inc Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.09.15 12:53:00 - [85] Originally by: Wolverine PL Rupture with pasive tank (1600plate, no rep, cruiser size guns) should kill maller with ease. Rupture is best cruiser in game, second would be vexor not maller. LoL sorry but how is that possible? Signature made by Mr Floppykickners
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.09.15 13:56:00 - [86] Edited by: Nyxus on 15/09/2006 13:58:11 Originally by: Dred 'Morte Quote: Lots of stuff how Maller sucks by Nyxus The only problem of the Maller is lack of cpu. I do have a nice setup on my Maller, fitted to fight almost any kind of cruiser. I have yet only had a chance to duel my boss Thorax and I defeated it. No I won't evemail you the setup, however, if you can come to Obe, I'll gladly have a duel with your maller or whatever cruiser The trick is thinking out of the box. Agree with you on the CPU thing. Geddon is in the same boat. Tanking mods take TONS of cpu to fit. Yet the tanking specialist ships have very little CPU to fit them. It makes no sense. I think it needs more grid as well. Honestly: giving the Maller more grid/cpu to tank AND fit a decent rack of weapons would make it balanced. Right now you can tank and fit the smallest pulses, if you use fitting mods (oftentimes multiple fitting mods). And you can't even THINK about fitting Beams, the only Amarrian weapon that is slightly better than the competitions. Dred - I will evemail you and see if we can get together in OBE or P3EN. I think we play in the same timezones. Maller does suck right now in comparison to the other Tier 3s. But if the tanking Tier 3s got a boost to fitting, I think it would balance out pretty well. Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
korrey Level Five	Posted - 2006.09.15 19:18:00 - [87] Originally by: jerrard iceni Originally by: Angus McLean That and theres the whine "Lasers arent broken, it just so happens AC's work better." That has to be the best oxy-moronic statement of this forums. "Amarrs weapons arent broken, they just suck so much other race's weapons work better EVEN when Amarr has a bonus to lasers..." Is actually what you guys are saying. i always thought (and cant be bothered to double check atm) that certain armarr ships, like the maller, dont have any bonni that effect weapon damage, fall off, optimal etc. so i really cant see why it matters if people want to fit ac's to mallers instead of lasers, certainly not a bad thing. Amarrs weapons is lasers. LASERS. If Amarr ships dont work well with lasers then something is wrong. 2 years ago people used lasers so much that even Minmatar Tempests fitted lasers. And something WAS terrribly wrong. And it WAS fixed. Can you honestly tell me now that because Amarr has to use Projectiles that everything is dandy? Originally by: Angus McLean Basically we've established, EVE physics > Amarr The basis of all Amarr threads.
Deven Sunstorm	Posted - 2006.09.15 23:11:00 - [88] Best PvP cruiser in the game is the GankMu, hands down the best. GankMu
carleyjones Caldari Blood and Silver	Posted - 2006.09.15 23:51:00 - [89] Originally by: korrey Can you honestly tell me now that because Amarr has to use Projectiles that everything is dandy?
Magniacapra	Posted - 2006.09.16 00:01:00 - [90] Originally by: Nicocat A Maller was part of a group that attacked my fully best-T1 kitted Cyclone yesterday. I can safely say that I didn't know a Maller could tank like that. Kudos to the pilot, and thank you for the fabulous loot.

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