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Cailais
Amarr
THE SEFRIM INSTITUTE
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Posted - 2006.09.15 12:48:00 -
[211]
The key thing that needs to change is travel. To engage in PvP you need to Find, Fix and Strike the target.
There's no easy method for the 'find' unless you use alt spies, or the delayed agent finder. Fixing is harder still as wcs & instas allow invulnerable escape in most cases (warp bubble excepting). The problem being that if you reslove these issue the 'strike' by blob is an instant kill (focused fire). ALL aspects need to be re examined - becuase by altering just one you alter the balance elsewhere.
People clamour for 0km warps because (currently) its the only option for survival. My personal view is that camping the entry point denies access to all the systems beyond it (and the associated resources. We should be defending the resource itself - not the access to it.
Travel should not be invulnerable however, and we need new ways to catch (or Fix) a target.
C.
C.
www.sefrim.com
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Jasmine Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:12:00 -
[212]
 Originally by: Cailais
As a new player this comments made in this thread make for some interesting, and often depressing reading. I think for the most part Jade Constantine has summed the situation rather nicely. From my perspective (i.e a noob) I would love to engage in some frenetic PvP, to take my small corp into the depths of 0.0 and try to survive. But its suicide really.
Some people are wailing 'no one will fight!' - is it any wonder? I have on average 10mil isk at any one moment. I have a t1 bc I can't really afford to loose. Im faced with a blob of 60+ pilots in system after system in 0.0, heck even in low sec. Yep if your gang of t2 fitted, sniping pwnmobile bs's turn up im going to run for the hills - can you blame me?
0.0 isnt the frontier, its a backwater, filled with bloated alliances guzzling upon their domains.
Don't believe me? Log in now, check the map - look at ships in space vs pods destroyed. Notice how theres nobody in 0.0 for you to go and kill? - thats because you've swatted them at the door.
Its particularly interesting for me with the perspective of Jericho Fraction's traditional IC rhetoric on the nature of territorialism, that the various ailments and maladies we have publicised and condemned in the past seem largely to have come true (and that in and of itself is a huge compliment to Eve online as the pre-eminent simulator of politics and mass psychology in the gaming scene).
Territorial powers put down roots and become fixated on defending a particular zone for pride, national feelings, for money, for safety, whatever, but when those aspects come to occlude the pure joy of spaceflight and sweet existence in the unrestricted frontier regions you find freecaptains and independence subsumed by authoritarian regimes and submission to large scale mechanics above individual prowess and talent.
JF's IC line (which I'm guessing lots of people now know next to nothing about) is that Territorial Imperialism is a hostile contageous "Meme" (literally an idea that is transmitted like a virus between host organisations and is determined to survive and shape society regardless of the interests of individuals) - We've spent years now talking about how the big alliances claiming space and clamming down regions will ultimately lead to the erosion of individuality and individual self-sufficiency and the degree to which this has come absolutely true is sometimes startling.
In the beginning Eve 0.0 was very much like an anarcho-capitalist environment with its share of marauders and outlaws to bring plenty of risk into the risk reward cycle. It was actually hard and challenging to build something out there - be it corp settlement, routine mining, trade runs or whatever.
But the settlers brought the empire with them and eventually over time the POS, sovereignty, big battalion thing has risen to dwarf individual pilot aspirations and desire for freedom. Everyone who wishes to remain in 0.0 ends up running from the big gangs and gnawing away like rats in the wainscotting (like us!) or just joining with the big boys and becoming the new law and authority aping the society we once hoped to leave behind in empire.
And lets face it. Is being ganked 20 to 1 by a territorial alliance fleet holding a bubblecamp in a system where they own a POS (to retreat to in case a significant threat arises) any more enjoyable and rewarding than being instaganked by a Concord fleet in Yulai if you decided to shoot at someone you didn't like the look of?
I'm thinking "no".
So whats happened is that the old constraints of empire are moved to 0.0. Whereas before you had to tow the concord line and behave or die. Now you have to tow the alliance leader line and set standings and behave (or die). The open frontier has gone.
So IC wise (the territorial imperialist meme is winning) And every time I see a grand old pirate or freelancer name joining up with the big NBSI territorials sitting on POS networks it wins a little harder.
_________________
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:20:00 -
[213]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 15/09/2006 13:22:24
Originally by: Malachon Draco
..adapt or die...
After reading through *all* the posts on this thread, the only conclusion one can come to is that Malachon Draco is correct.
We as the community have evolved into what we are and whilst it has been under the guiding hand of CCP the impetus has come from within.
Are the mega-alliances doomed to fail due to extreme boredom?
Will we see a clear divide between those that can be bothered to colonise 0.0 with POS and those that cannot?
Who knows, but to know the answers to these questions I will probably keep playing... not least because I am curious.
CCP must take the blame for the serious loss in performance brought about by the Dragon Code.
.. but we must look in the mirror and see that the EVE we play today has been in no small manner shaped by our own hand.
If you don't like blob warfare don't join a big alliance.
If you don't like POS, territorial conquest is not for you.
If you are not having fun at all in EVE, maybe you are not playing the right game...
EVE is our sandbox and it is has come about in a semi-evolutionary process which cannot be undone....
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Ginger Magician
Minmatar
OctoberSnow Corp
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:44:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii
Originally by: Ginger Magician
Edited by: Ginger Magician on 15/09/2006 12:34:12
I have to agree with most of the points raised here.
The cost of tech 2 items must be reduced and losses must be made cheaper if we are to see more pvp in the game.There needs to be more counters to blobbing and ew as well.
Even with a reputation and a security status of -10 it is sometimes amazingly hard to get people to fight me unless they have a lot of ew/blob.
As has been posted here no one wants to lose anything and its too easy to evade empire wars by sitting in station.
Dude people dont fight you because you fit 6 stabs on your battleships.
You bring it on yourself
Alliaanna
This is a thead for vets not wannabe forum *****s who have never even soloed a single bs.
Try checking some of the post in new players corner and run along.
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karrak
Exotic Dancers Club
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:46:00 -
[215]
Good old days where fun  When people actually dared to to undock and fight. Its not really ccp's fault that combat that dosnt involve a jump inn trap is hard to come by there days.
Some people blame the penaltyes for loosing ships while others love the fact that a death can potentially sting your wallet pretty bad.
Making ships and items cheaper to reduce the death penalty might make people more willing to risk their ships but on the other hand itm might kill the fun for manny that thinks that's whats uniqe about eve. So how does one balance that?
Fleet fight's at 200k with t2 ammo should bee nerfed to hell and back, i know tons of people doing it but none of em actually likes it, go figure.
Instas, it makes it exidingly hard for the agressor and the option to make a bm withinn 100k of anny celestial object should bee removed. While at the same time inserting Digi's suggestion for manual warp feature to gates at 0 km.
Local channels.. die?
I fully approve of removing killmails im seing the obsession with kill/death ratios first hand atm and it just sickens mee. People are so affraid of taking risks inn fear of lowering their statistics.
So what whas so good about the old days? All the oldies i know thinks the same, it was better inn the old days. but none can actually point to what was so more fun.
Thread signed
Nervar
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Jasmine Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:46:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Nez Perces
If you don't like blob warfare don't join a big alliance.
If you don't like POS, territorial conquest is not for you.
If you are not having fun at all in EVE, maybe you are not playing the right game...
Absolutely correct in principle. Problem comes with the tweaking of game mechanics which have gone too far in one direction because thats what we thought we wanted at the time. I think nobody really enjoys the current reality of blob-warfare. The fights should be smaller, more interactive, less about absolute numbers and more about manouver and individual playing skill. These are things we can't just "adapt to" they need to be lobbied for and require developers to understand the situation currently experienced in order that improvements be made.
Quote:
EVE is our sandbox and it is has come about in a semi-evolutionary process which cannot be undone....
Well, you can tweak evolution. Watch the numbers of alliances fade if corporations could set standings to alliances and only people with empire command V could be executors.
Its not enough to be entirely resolved to the status quo. Its good to be honest about the reasons why things have fallen to this pass, but that doesn't mean the future is set and irreconcilable to the aspirations of players.
I'm in for the long term as well Nez, I'm curious too. I love the game and the people in it. I love my character and the ships I can fly and the concept of the single shard political sandbox in space is as alluring now as it was in the beginning. But some things need putting right. We the players (collectively) lobbied the devs for sovereignty and RTS style gameplay - we the players (collectively) can lobby for a return of individual content and improved experience outside of the team/alliance drone thing.
Its our game. Its what we choose to make it.
_________________
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Nebuli
Caldari
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:58:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Ginger Magician
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii
Originally by: Ginger Magician
Edited by: Ginger Magician on 15/09/2006 12:34:12
I have to agree with most of the points raised here.
The cost of tech 2 items must be reduced and losses must be made cheaper if we are to see more pvp in the game.There needs to be more counters to blobbing and ew as well.
Even with a reputation and a security status of -10 it is sometimes amazingly hard to get people to fight me unless they have a lot of ew/blob.
As has been posted here no one wants to lose anything and its too easy to evade empire wars by sitting in station.
Dude people dont fight you because you fit 6 stabs on your battleships.
You bring it on yourself
Alliaanna
This is a thead for vets not wannabe forum *****s who have never even soloed a single bs.
Try checking some of the post in new players corner and run along.
Never fail to be a moron do you Ginger?
2003 player here, pvpd since my first week in EVE to present day, solod more BS than I can count, enough vet for you?
And guess what, I agree with him 100% 
CEO - Art of War
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.09.15 14:02:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Jasmine Constantine
I'm in for the long term as well Nez, I'm curious too. I love the game and the people in it. I love my character and the ships I can fly and the concept of the single shard political sandbox in space is as alluring now as it was in the beginning. But some things need putting right. We the players (collectively) lobbied the devs for sovereignty and RTS style gameplay - we the players (collectively) can lobby for a return of individual content and improved experience outside of the team/alliance drone thing.
Its our game. Its what we choose to make it.
Yes it is our game in a way and what we choose to make it. However, I believe what we choose to make it is primarily on account of what we do as individuals in-game.
I also believe that lobbying CCP for change is highly overrated... I would not be surprised if CCP decide to make changes based upon what the player base do in-game instead of what we say on the forums.
E.g In the days before POS, CCP must have watched us ping-pong the stations like it was going out of fashion. The logical step forward was to introduce sovereignty via POS.
Big mega-alliances have sprung up using the POS mechanics.. if the playerbase decides that POS are too boring they will stop refueling them. Then CCP may have to do something about that...
Whilst the big alliances keep putting up outposts and POS in numbers superior to the hot dinners I have had.. CCP will keep supporting these mechanisms.. no matter the amount of lobbying.
Yes we have control over our environment but through what we do rather than what gets said on the forums.
The lobbying has a place for sure but it is not as powerful as direct action in-game.
Stop refueling the POS and CCP will change them... keep refueling them and CCP will pat itself on the back for a job well done.
Yes there are many tweaks that will improve gameplay.. but right now I would like to see CCP concentrate on sorting out the sub-par dragon code that has introduced several playability issues. How the game shapes up mechanics wise in the future is going to be dictaded very much via our actions in-game.
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Admiral IceBlock
Caldari
Northern Intelligence
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.15 15:27:00 -
[219]
For ****s sake people. Tech2 prices in itself is NOT the problem! The problem is that due to how Tech2 works it is MANDATORY to use it!
You can not achieve optimal of 220km in a non-Tech2 battleship. Since MANY fights occur at this range, it makes Tech2 a REQUIREMENT!
CCP has to remove long-range Tech2 AMMO and give them OTHER specifications. Maybe a DOT effect or AOE effect.
Tech2 should give you a SPECIFIC ADVANTAGE, not an OVERALL PERFORMANCE BOOST.
Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW! |
Lo3d3R
Implant Liberation Front
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Posted - 2006.09.15 15:35:00 -
[220]
Originally by: KIAEddZ
Getting a fight these days is as you say is ridiculously hard.
Its all trap and bait :(
The defensive setup is simply better than the aggressive one, with prices of tech 2 ships as they are, people are so fearful of losing them that no one is willing to committ to a fight unless they are sure they can win........
Hope CCP turns the advanatge to the aggressor sometime soon... :(
to true... why the don't they get that at CCP-HQ
___________________
Eating Chopped Bear:  |
Karash Amerius
Amarr
O.E.C
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Posted - 2006.09.15 16:44:00 -
[221]
Maybe the true winners and losers of Eve are just now being determined?
Merc Blog |
Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.09.15 17:25:00 -
[222]
"i eat and breathe pvp, our gangs rarely exceed 15 people, and yet pvp is getting so frustrating.
our targets see us enter local and no matter how fast we can scan, they are already in warp to the station/POS/safespot
if your not going to remove local showing who is in system, atleast give us a chance, delay our appearance in local by 30 seconds, thats it, 30 seconds, its all i need to get double the fights and make 0.0 a lot more risky. but this only helps us get more ganks..."
Exactly and you know what this game doesnt need to assist ganking anymore, it is already FAR FAR to easy and the msot rewarded type of PVP , while being the least risky and least challenging. Everything possible should be done to discourage ganks. Here is a novel idea stop mobbing everyone and you will be surprised how many mroe people will be willing to fight back.
You know why people run when you show up in local.... I promise you it is the same reason YOU RUN when you're by yourself trying to make a bit of ISK, you just don;t need to take time to make isk anymore. It is because when somoen shows up in local 90% of the time it is some guy in a near perfect tackling set up, who has a small gang waiting to warp in and pwn the poor fool you tackle. Honestly I see no reason why someone shouldnt be able to run away from such ***** weak type of pvpers EVERYTIME.
A large part of eve PVP has come to such because of all the pussies who use numbers to wtfpwn solo players. eve has some of the biggest carebears pretending to be leet pvp'ers i have ever seen in a pvp game. Nearly every smaktalking pretend to be hardass 0.0 pvpers and gate campers i have seen post on these boards is in reality a lollipop sucking carebear who either snipes or runs with a gang to kill solo players. bunch a puuuusssiees.
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Ebers Skeleton
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Posted - 2006.09.15 17:50:00 -
[223]
Amen Jade.
I've been playing for around 1.5 years, not a vet by an standards. But I have noticed the decline in solo-bility in the game. I play with friends yes, but I don't want to all the time. I like having personal goals as well.
I'm curious, Jade you speak very well, do you study human behavior or are you an historian? Very Libertarian or old-world Liberal thinking there. Well done. |
Diablique
The Forsakened Few
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Posted - 2006.09.15 17:55:00 -
[224]
The most fun in a fleet fight I ever had..... well we have to go back nearly 2 years for that.... BEFORE the GNW.
Fade Union was bored, we took a 50man fleet or so up to OBE / P3en-e to mess with F-E
What ensued was a 2 hr all out brawl that ended when BOTH sides ran out of ammo, and we aproached the gate to empire together, side by side laughing at each other.
Why did it last so long? Alot of reasons, Ravens were king, torps blew up each others incoming fire with splash damage, so seperate targeting had to be coordinated, the support frigate and cruiser fleets were decimated after an hour and tackleing could no longer occur.
And back then... it was ok to lose 50% of your fleet as long as you killed 51% of thiers.. it was all good fun.
Now its not exceptable to fight unless you have a 3:1 k/d ration  
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.09.15 18:01:00 -
[225]
".. but we must look in the mirror and see that the EVE we play today has been in no small manner shaped by our own hand.
If you don't like blob warfare don't join a big alliance.
If you don't like POS, territorial conquest is not for you.
If you are not having fun at all in EVE, maybe you are not playing the right game...
EVE is our sandbox and it is has come about in a semi-evolutionary process which cannot be undone...."
Sadly this is a very naive position. It is like telling people to skate up hill to win the race if they think skating downhill is too easy.... the problem is most everyone else will still be skating downhill, so you come in last. not to mention alot of the problems are not solvable by saying if you don;t like it don;t do it. How does that solve the fact some people have the equiuvelent of a ISK duping bug and making insane amounts of money by doing almost nothing? How does that allow me to compete in 0.0 when i instead of being part of the blob get blobed till i am broke or leave? Great so i refuse to snipe now i am relagated to dying every battles to sniping ships? This is gonna fix things?
See the problem is CCP creates the ruleset for the sandbox EVE is not some open freeform world where we create the rules and gameplay. We only have the freedom to work with the toolset granted us and the current toolset has some VERY VERY big problems. Unless this is pointed out to CCP nothing will change....
This is one of the times I truly feel like banging my head against the wall. You see a thread like this sighting game flaws in such a overwhelming majority but yet the developers will literally DO NOTHING to correct this problem for more than a year i will wager /boggle.
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flummox
Circle of Jerks
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Posted - 2006.09.15 20:03:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Earthan
Originally by: flummox
i see the recurring theme of "less damage for multiple hostiles on a single target" throughout this post and i have some questions:
why?
how is it even possible?
thank you,
flummox
Noramlly you programm a mechanism that does it and im a fan of this idea.
An ingame explanation can alwys be found: Like shields
and armour entering into a strange state of boosted resistance oncea critcal dmg/s has beeen reached or the computers stop to aim well when so many energy in one place...
that didn't explain anything? is this for multiple ships firing on you? or multiple WEAPONS firing on you. because most ships have more than one weapon. and, if the shields are going to harden in 'that area', what if i'm firing on two different areas? or, does the affect only matter for shields and not armor? does it stop when shields are gone?
i'm sorry, it's just not realistic in any way.
... bring me my cheese... |
Fred0
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.15 20:08:00 -
[227]
CCP cares about subscribers. The actual gameplay has become secondary. All too evident.
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Celticjim
Minmatar
The Shadow Order
The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.09.15 21:19:00 -
[228]
Most hypocritical post I have read in a while. Look at all the posts by newer players, and the responses.
Look at this post. Should expect the same response, but instead nostalgia. The game has changed, and was admitted by OP
Phonix and I seem to sit around on vent and just talk about how great of a game used to be. The truth is, EVE is not the same game it was 2 years ago. It is entirely different, and I've come to accept that. I feel sorry for all of the newer players, they cannot experience what EVE was like for us, they don't know what they were missing. I'll leave it at this - PVP back in the day was glorious.
Wasn't really all that glorious pre-castor, nostalgia makes it seem better. Still were ganks,the Uber Scorp, Raven, etc. Fleet battles were boring because it was like Red Rover. Each gang lined up at appropriate gate, and then one group finally got bored/couraged up enough to attack. Sometimes you didn't even get to fire off a bloody shot due to splash dmg.
Same thing applies to the vets that applies the newer players.
New Players - Don't want to lose ship you can't afford, dont take it out.
Vets - Don't like large fleet battles, don't participate. Find another group to engage.
btw...definitely not a fanboy of CCP. Not by huge margin. In game 3 years later due to people I met online, not due to CCP's efforts.
However, Ham has got to be given kudos for acknowledging this is his rant, and may be due to his inability to adapt Maybe its my inability to fully accept these changes, but its almost as though the game is unplayable.
Take a break Ham. Come back when the batteries get recharged.
Sincerest Regards
CJ
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Rman
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Posted - 2006.09.15 21:20:00 -
[229]
Quote:
If a frigate couldn't tackle a Battleship, how would fights ever result in the destruction of ships? Everyone would just warp away because they couldn't be held down.
I'm new and even I know the answer to that one. Large, Medium and Small warp scramblers. You all can figure out the rest.
Rman
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Pestillence
Revelations Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.15 22:10:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Ginger Magician
This is a thead for vets not wannabe forum *****s who have never even soloed a single bs.
Try checking some of the post in new players corner and run along.
[18:26:34] Fluffy Rabbit > gj
[18:26:37] Phlax > gf guys
[18:27:45] theblaze > Gf !
[18:29:10] Phlax > Sure is, was a good fight guys
[18:29:24] Crovan > Agreed
[18:29:25] Crovan > gf
[18:29:37] Ginger Magician > lamers
[18:29:43] Ginger Magician > all u do is fight ina lbob
[18:29:50] Ginger Magician > u cant fight any of us1v1
[18:29:57] Ginger Magician > blob and lag are your only ractics
[18:30:06] Ginger Magician > gamew mechanics make it impossible to fight
[ 2006.09.15 15:22:18 ] Ginger Magician > well well a claoking mc *****
[ 2006.09.15 15:22:21 ] Ginger Magician > what a surprise
[ 2006.09.15 15:22:56 ] Ginger Magician > piracy too hard for u was it?
[ 2006.09.15 15:23:02 ] Ginger Magician > coudlnt hack it in ....
[ 2006.09.15 15:23:12 ] Ginger Magician > aww
People don't give you the respect you deserve as EvE's numero uno pvp'r.
By the way, 425 t2's getting a bit expensive now?
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Captain Hudson
Caldari
Bravehearts
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Posted - 2006.09.15 22:56:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Pestillence
Originally by: Ginger Magician
This is a thead for vets not wannabe forum *****s who have never even soloed a single bs.
Try checking some of the post in new players corner and run along.
[18:26:34] Fluffy Rabbit > gj
[18:26:37] Phlax > gf guys
[18:27:45] theblaze > Gf !
[18:29:10] Phlax > Sure is, was a good fight guys
[18:29:24] Crovan > Agreed
[18:29:25] Crovan > gf
[18:29:37] Ginger Magician > lamers
[18:29:43] Ginger Magician > all u do is fight ina lbob
[18:29:50] Ginger Magician > u cant fight any of us1v1
[18:29:57] Ginger Magician > blob and lag are your only ractics
[18:30:06] Ginger Magician > gamew mechanics make it impossible to fight
[ 2006.09.15 15:22:18 ] Ginger Magician > well well a claoking mc *****
[ 2006.09.15 15:22:21 ] Ginger Magician > what a surprise
[ 2006.09.15 15:22:56 ] Ginger Magician > piracy too hard for u was it?
[ 2006.09.15 15:23:02 ] Ginger Magician > coudlnt hack it in ....
[ 2006.09.15 15:23:12 ] Ginger Magician > aww
People don't give you the respect you deserve as EvE's numero uno pvp'r.
By the way, 425 t2's getting a bit expensive now?
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Disco dancer
Old Sebilis
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Posted - 2006.09.15 23:09:00 -
[232]
1/ limit the number of people in a gang ( 5 or 6 max )
2/ create a pvp only server with low sec rules regarding sentries
3/ fog of war on local, gate camping and sniping not allowed anymore
4/ no player owned station, only npc ones
5/ more challenging PvE ( you should not be able to farm these 0,0 spawn all day long on your own ; AI of npc is extremely poor actually if not inexistant
6/ more HP to bigger ships, you should not be able to kill a BS with 20 frig. Whats the point of spending 1 year and half of BS training if 15 1 month old char can gank you and kill you ?? that just encourage BLOB
7/ no T2 BPO lottery , only T2 BPC dropped at random loc by npcs, that would push gangs to belts where PvP could happen . Also no more monopoly from big corp for T2 prod
8/ smaller universe, on a pvp server, you dont need to 1 bazillion "zones" unless you have 20 000 pvpers, which never happen.
9/ faction for each race, by example, amarr territoy KOS to gall etc. also raiding ennemy territoy would give reward from your faction in form of BPC, faction ship etc
10/ limited number of gangs in a raid
a few ideas
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Al Thorr
Caldari
The Wheel
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Posted - 2006.09.15 23:41:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Disco dancer
1/ limit the number of people in a gang ( 5 or 6 max )
2/ create a pvp only server with low sec rules regarding sentries
3/ fog of war on local, gate camping and sniping not allowed anymore
4/ no player owned station, only npc ones
5/ more challenging PvE ( you should not be able to farm these 0,0 spawn all day long on your own ; AI of npc is extremely poor actually if not inexistant
6/ more HP to bigger ships, you should not be able to kill a BS with 20 frig. Whats the point of spending 1 year and half of BS training if 15 1 month old char can gank you and kill you ?? that just encourage BLOB
7/ no T2 BPO lottery , only T2 BPC dropped at random loc by npcs, that would push gangs to belts where PvP could happen . Also no more monopoly from big corp for T2 prod
8/ smaller universe, on a pvp server, you dont need to 1 bazillion "zones" unless you have 20 000 pvpers, which never happen.
9/ faction for each race, by example, amarr territoy KOS to gall etc. also raiding ennemy territoy would give reward from your faction in form of BPC, faction ship etc
10/ limited number of gangs in a raid
a few ideas
Peronally my answers to above
1. - with factional warfare gangs mean diddly
2. - Hell no. single shard even with all its problems ftw.
3. - sniping only really happens with ships arriveing to gates not leaving.
4. - all you get it even more camping around choke points.
5. - agree but all you will end up with is more whines about lev 3 4 being too hard.
6. - time ranges out by a long way. but HP increase wont affect the outcome just lengthens it.
7.- ill thought out. would make t2 even more scarce and up prices further.
8. - see 2 . why repeat it ?
9. is actually getting there with missions and sec hits. -( will never be enforcede due to pve community)
10. - see 1.
Just my 2 iskies in the pond
Regards
Al Thorr
"You cant polish a turd" - The new rendered font is living proof.
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.09.16 00:28:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Disco dancer
WOWstalgica
are you serious??
replacing player content by npcs, instancing, splitting between combat and monetary PvP ... uhm ...
either  or ... dunno what fits better
___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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Gragnor
Order of the Arrow
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Posted - 2006.09.16 02:19:00 -
[235]
I think perhaps the author is missing one little point. In the beginning; everyone started off the same - same skill points and same level of understanding about how the game was played.
Then came MOO. Evereything I have read indicates that these guys were legends; breaking every rule they could and generally causing chaos and carnage. That started Eve on the transition to what it is today.
Then came the next generation of players and T2.
Now; the uber PVP veterans cry about the good old days and complain about a lack of one on one PvP. Well, why the hell would a lesser experienced player dare to take on a veteran? They will ALLWAYS lose as they have lesser skills and their ships are not as powerful. For example, an inexperienced cruiser pilot has no chance against an experienced HAC pilot in a one on one contest.
So the weak and innocent adapt and form the infamous and often derided blob. Thus we have the weaker ganging together to survive the predations of the stronger and more experienced.
That brings up the next point; all the experienced players band togather and form cliques of elite pilots. Numerous pirate organisations, mercenary corps (I am thinkong of one the best self-promoters in Eve) and one alliance in particular (they who shall not be named) all appear to have a policy of only accepting experienced PvPers into their ranks.
So who educates the weak and the innocent; who inculcates in them the fun of one on one PvP? Who shows them the ropes of surviving a two on one engagement?
That's right......no one.
So, as the experienced band together they become more richer and powerful and can easily lord it over the noobs. Can any small corp seriously expect to defeat any one of the BIG 4 alliance plans? Of course not. Heaven help the small corp that dreams big and hopes to be independent of the Big 4. Don't even think about trying to manufacture motherships as there have been numerous corps destroyed for having that goal. And now you wonder why fleet engagements are focused fire blobs of doom?
Simply put, the big boys play in a different league to the rest of us - so don't complain when we run away, uber-stab our ships, log off, form the blob and avoid one on one PvP. It's the only way we can survive.
If you don't like it; you shouldn't have made it so hard for the newer players to flourish and survive. And that's my point - you (the older experienced hands) have made Eve hell for noobs and then you wonder why the game is no longer played your way!
Eve is the most Darwinian game I have ever seen where the experienced carve up the innocent every day; don't now complain when you reap what you have sown.
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Hamatitio
Caldari
Fate.
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.09.16 08:39:00 -
[236]
Edited by: Hamatitio on 16/09/2006 08:40:27
Skillpoints only go so far in the game, pilots skill and setups are important as well.
And can we get off my alliance tag?
This thread was doomed the moment it was moved here.
Although I am surprised it has stayed on topic as much as it has, and I thank you guys for that. Never thought a 3am rant post would inspire a people!
viva la resistance 
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I'm going through sigs fast these days. |
Phonix
Fate.
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.09.16 08:49:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Nez Perces
Originally by: Jasmine Constantine
I'm in for the long term as well Nez, I'm curious too. I love the game and the people in it. I love my character and the ships I can fly and the concept of the single shard political sandbox in space is as alluring now as it was in the beginning. But some things need putting right. We the players (collectively) lobbied the devs for sovereignty and RTS style gameplay - we the players (collectively) can lobby for a return of individual content and improved experience outside of the team/alliance drone thing.
Its our game. Its what we choose to make it.
Yes it is our game in a way and what we choose to make it. However, I believe what we choose to make it is primarily on account of what we do as individuals in-game.
I also believe that lobbying CCP for change is highly overrated... I would not be surprised if CCP decide to make changes based upon what the player base do in-game instead of what we say on the forums.
E.g In the days before POS, CCP must have watched us ping-pong the stations like it was going out of fashion. The logical step forward was to introduce sovereignty via POS.
Big mega-alliances have sprung up using the POS mechanics.. if the playerbase decides that POS are too boring they will stop refueling them. Then CCP may have to do something about that...
Whilst the big alliances keep putting up outposts and POS in numbers superior to the hot dinners I have had.. CCP will keep supporting these mechanisms.. no matter the amount of lobbying.
Yes we have control over our environment but through what we do rather than what gets said on the forums.
The lobbying has a place for sure but it is not as powerful as direct action in-game.
Stop refueling the POS and CCP will change them... keep refueling them and CCP will pat itself on the back for a job well done.
Yes there are many tweaks that will improve gameplay.. but right now I would like to see CCP concentrate on sorting out the sub-par dragon code that has introduced several playability issues. How the game shapes up mechanics wise in the future is going to be dictaded very much via our actions in-game.
First of all skills points mean **** really.. I know alot of people that could kill me and have a 1/2 of my SP. Its the way you train and fit your ship.
Second m0o was great, I had the best time in my EVE carrer with them. I still keep in touch with alot of them and are still really good friend's, The problem is there cant be a m0o again or anything like that because of the game mechanic's. Pirating is pretty much gone, people will run for there lives in low sec to a pos they put up for a measly 220mil safespot.
Satan,
I understand your tactic is effective, in the meantime its dull and lame. If Hama, Razor and a few other friends did the same lame 150k 4 stab damper setup, we would be firing missles at eachother for hour's the only thing that would kill one of us would be the lag CCP promised to fix.
Fist and Jexter are still the post respected players in the old EVE they did pretty much the same thing as BE but had class and I never recall them using stabs. Stabs are for the weak and will not come back untill they fix them.
A good friend of alot in the EVE community almost deleted his charcater a few days ago with around 40mil sp because people simply dont fight or if they do its with 4+ stabs and 100k away.
CCP can do something, but there intrested in this 30k user bullsh!t.
That is why eve is dull.
CEO of Fate
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Jasmine Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.09.16 11:41:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Ebers Skeleton
I've been playing for around 1.5 years, not a vet by an standards. But I have noticed the decline in solo-bility in the game. I play with friends yes, but I don't want to all the time. I like having personal goals as well. I'm curious, Jasmine you speak very well, do you study human behavior or are you an historian? Very Libertarian or old-world Liberal thinking there. Well done.
Historian by academic career, libertarian by personal politics. And with regard to Eve Online, well, it was clear from the offset it represented an amazing opportunity to play with ideas and social development in a blank slate diaspora of uber-powered individuals newly independent from the cultural structures that spawned them.
Just reading the paper manual that used to come with the game round a friends house when we decided to give it a whirl depicted these human-beings on the verge of becoming virtual post-humans with a form of immortality and whole new currency and set of expectations for the future.
What particularly inspired Jericho Fraction as a whole (back then) was this idea of the war of influence for the metaphorical souls of the capsule pilot community. Some would ape their pre-transcendence life and loyalties and become loyalists and zealots. Some would go off the deep end and become murdering psychopaths because the consequences of murder were diminished between peers (and murder of the "lesser" species - ie ordinary baseline humans in the ship crews became institutionalised and mundane). Still others would embrace the financial and cultural independence granted them by the circumstances of genetics and go enjoy the post-human experience as beacons of anarcho-capitalist endeavour.
Or to put it another way. Eve has a deep background and very interesting setting. The chronicals, the backstory, the technology and rationalisation for such in the player realm is all extremely compelling. I found it impossible to look at such things and not be inspired to see the game as a little more than little spaceships shooting each other - it was (and is) a political simulator as much as a wargame, and its been fascinating to see Eve develop over the years since.
As a corporation JF has attempted the whole ideological guerilla movement pretty well I think, and we've maintained our standards and ROE consistantly since the beginning. But we've certainly been losing the war for hearts and minds amongst the capsulars of the frontier ... territorialism is rife and almost unquestioned by the leaders and influential voices out there. People have almost autonomously slipped down the road into land-grabbing, defensive outpost building, xenophobic ROE (NBSI) adopting policies which entirely ape the concept of the most extreme authoritarian states of our own understanding. And although its darkly satisfying on one level to hear gamers uttering the same kind of justifications for close-minded attrocity as history records for other devils in times before, its been a little sad that Eve hasn't really produced the heroes and idealogues to promote the opposite extremes in the open political environment.
I think personally, that a lot of the ennui and general disatisfaction veteran players feel today has to do with the degree to which they've become mere followers blindly doing the bidding of leaders and generals with identical ethics and approaches to the game. When you strip out the imagination and colour and politics and rhetorical flourish from the in-game entities you bleach the whole experience of its distinctive appeal. And fighting for X,Y,Z 0.0 entities who have the same agenda, same ROE, same treatment of strangers, same focus on killmails, same style of community etc etc - must get boring.
0.0 Eve at the moment has two camps of villains and precious few heroes:
You've got the territorial fascists and their NBSI approach.
You've got the pirate psychopaths and their kill all approach.
And thats it.
_________________
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Demitri Klashnikov
Amarr
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.09.16 12:00:00 -
[239]
Meh, Nostalga isn't like it used to be
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Disco dancer
Old Sebilis
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Posted - 2006.09.16 12:27:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Originally by: Disco dancer
WOWstalgica
are you serious??
replacing player content by npcs, instancing, splitting between combat and monetary PvP ... uhm ...
either or ... dunno what fits better
Mate, I was just giving my opinion based on my previous MMORPG experiences ( FYI, i begun to play MMORPG in 97, Ultima Online and so on, so I think I know a bit about PvP ), now you can agree or disagree with what I said, but at least try to bring something more constructive if you want to reply instead of or .
I'm sorry but gankfest and gate camping are not pvp, then the lowest form of it. Every MMORPG since their creation always had people hidding behind numbers, its not really new but what is really impressive in this game is the number of people doing it .
I guess all the MMORPG who stays more than 1 or 2 years always mutate into something different and so , attract different kind of players and gameplay. You ve got also another typical MMORPG problem, that's call muflation. That means that in order to retain the oldest players, dev teams create always bigger and more powerfull items, and that generally change a lot the gameplay even if in surface its still the same game.
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