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Does CCP care about the vets?

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Hamatitio Caldari Fate. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.13 08:57:00 - [1] It seems like more and more these days I am logging in just to sit around and talk to people I know. I haven't truly undocked and played in god knows how long, and I can't even remember the last time I got a kill. Phonix and I seem to sit around on vent and just talk about how great of a game used to be. The truth is, EVE is not the same game it was 2 years ago. It is entirely different, and I've come to accept that. I feel sorry for all of the newer players, they cannot experience what EVE was like for us, they don't know what they were missing. I'll leave it at this - PVP back in the day was glorious. Maybe its my inability to fully accept these changes, but its almost as though the game is unplayable. You truly cannot take any ship (other than a vagabond or interceptor) into enemy territory and expect to get out alive. That is fine, I'll take friends. If you take friends, they take more friends or sit in a station. It is nearly impossible to get a fight, and when you do, it is almost always one you cannot hope to win. It seems that the main reason for fighting these days is because you are bored, you take your gang of 6 into the blob of 20 because you are tired of waiting, you don't care if you die. I'll just leave it here with a /sigh, I could go on this rant for quite a long time. The fun part - WCS/ECM. People say they are broken, people say they are fine. IMO, the entire propulsion system needs to be looked at. Why can a frigate disable a battleship or a carrier drive? At the same time if you change it, will you still see frigates on the battlefield? These are questions that must be asked, cannot be answered, and leave everyone wondering. I dont want to turn this into a flame fest so I am not going to say what I think should be done. Sniping. Probably the most boring thing in the game. Fleet fights sit at about 150km away, warp an interdictor in, pop a bubble, and primary / secondary the enemy fleet down. This leads to all sorts of camping until one fleet shows their force, usually resulting in little fighting, and extreme lag. The more I think about it, the more I agree, multiple ships attacking the same target should reduce the damage. Make fleet fights at least somewhat interesting if we are going to sit at 150km. Why shouldn't shells exploding into the hull of another ship send out particles that could interfere with incoming fire? Or hell, even tracking. Soloability. Yes, this is an MMO. Its an online multiplayer game, that is understandable. However, sometimes I don't have 14 people that can go on an op with me, so what can I do? Go NPC? I'd love to be able to hop into a thorax and go cruisin around space. Unfortunately, you can't. /end argument. That is my 3 am rant for today. I hope you enjoy, and perhaps some of the older players can agree with me on some parts. Missing EVE '03/'04 -Hama --- I'm going through sigs fast these days.
Hamatitio Caldari Fate. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.13 08:58:00 - [2] I never really put my vet point in there but I dont feel like editing. meh. --- I'm going through sigs fast these days.
Turiya Flesharrower Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.09.13 09:08:00 - [3] Originally by: Hamatitio It seems like more and more these days I am logging in just to sit around and talk to people I know. I haven't truly undocked and played in god knows how long, and I can't even remember the last time I got a kill. Phonix and I seem to sit around on vent and just talk about how great of a game used to be. The truth is, EVE is not the same game it was 2 years ago. It is entirely different, and I've come to accept that. I feel sorry for all of the newer players, they cannot experience what EVE was like for us, they don't know what they were missing. I'll leave it at this - PVP back in the day was glorious. Sounds like you need a break from the game for a time, or a change of scene. Quote: Maybe its my inability to fully accept these changes, but its almost as though the game is unplayable. You truly cannot take any ship (other than a vagabond or interceptor) into enemy territory and expect to get out alive. That is fine, I'll take friends. If you take friends, they take more friends or sit in a station. It is nearly impossible to get a fight, and when you do, it is almost always one you cannot hope to win. It seems that the main reason for fighting these days is because you are bored, you take your gang of 6 into the blob of 20 because you are tired of waiting, you don't care if you die. I'll just leave it here with a /sigh, I could go on this rant for quite a long time. Isn't boredom the reason for playing the game itself? In any case, it's perfectly possible to fight in 0.0 without being blobbed; we do it every day. It's also perfectly possible to win against 20 ships when you have 6, all it takes is forethought and planning. Quote: The fun part - WCS/ECM. People say they are broken, people say they are fine. IMO, the entire propulsion system needs to be looked at. Why can a frigate disable a battleship or a carrier drive? At the same time if you change it, will you still see frigates on the battlefield? These are questions that must be asked, cannot be answered, and leave everyone wondering. I dont want to turn this into a flame fest so I am not going to say what I think should be done. If a frigate couldn't tackle a Battleship, how would fights ever result in the destruction of ships? Everyone would just warp away because they couldn't be held down. Quote: Sniping. Probably the most boring thing in the game. Fleet fights sit at about 150km away, warp an interdictor in, pop a bubble, and primary / secondary the enemy fleet down. This leads to all sorts of camping until one fleet shows their force, usually resulting in little fighting, and extreme lag. The more I think about it, the more I agree, multiple ships attacking the same target should reduce the damage. Make fleet fights at least somewhat interesting if we are going to sit at 150km. Why shouldn't shells exploding into the hull of another ship send out particles that could interfere with incoming fire? Or hell, even tracking. Agreed, I made a thread about this in the Ideas Discussion forum which exactly matches the particle interference principle you're talking about. Tuxford is working on a solution, at least. Quote: Soloability. Yes, this is an MMO. Its an online multiplayer game, that is understandable. However, sometimes I don't have 14 people that can go on an op with me, so what can I do? Go NPC? I'd love to be able to hop into a thorax and go cruisin around space. Unfortunately, you can't. /end argument. Why not? Unless you jump into a camp, it's perfectly possible to go anywhere in any ship. As long as you know the territory there's little risk. Quote: That is my 3 am rant for today. I hope you enjoy, and perhaps some of the older players can agree with me on some parts. Missing EVE '03/'04 -Hama I'm an older player, but I don't think it's so much to do with age as it's to do with your attitude. Taking nostalgia too far can ruin the game for you -----
Pestillence Revelations Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.13 09:10:00 - [4] This isn't about vets, it's about the current state of pvp in EvE. A few of us left the MC to form a small corp and we wardecc'd 2 alliances who were doing a lot of pounding of chests and seemed up for a fight. We're willing to fight stupidly outnumbered and even suicide into them if it'll be a good fight. Now they won't even undock. meh
Don ZOLA Caldari TunDraGon	Posted - 2006.09.13 09:13:00 - [5] signed :/ TDG Recruitment
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.09.13 09:14:00 - [6] Getting a fight these days is as you say is ridiculously hard. Its all trap and bait :( The defensive setup is simply better than the aggressive one, with prices of tech 2 ships as they are, people are so fearful of losing them that no one is willing to committ to a fight unless they are sure they can win........ Hope CCP turns the advanatge to the aggressor sometime soon... :( KIA Piccys
Josiah Bartlet Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.13 09:17:00 - [7] Edited by: Josiah Bartlet on 13/09/2006 09:20:59 agree with it all basically By the way, good move on posting this here and not General Discussion. The last thing I want to read is yet another thread polluted by those who have no idea what they are talking about (see most posts in that section regarding pvp). Its all pretty meh to me atm. Eve's been 'down' like this before and usually its the lull between major content patches. However, Eve has been trending towards defensivism for far too long. I just hope they can get it corrected. --- SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR
Altai Saker Omniscient Order	Posted - 2006.09.13 09:36:00 - [8] HAve to agree seems like so many people are afraid to lose ships these days.
Cmd Woodlouse Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.09.13 09:38:00 - [9] /signed -------------------------------- Even WOW is far better than EVE now. Please fix this broken Simcity-Pos-Game!
Deidranna SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2006.09.13 09:39:00 - [10] Edited by: Deidranna on 13/09/2006 09:44:01 Killboards ... Stats ... Efficiency ... there goes the fun its all about "haha we're uber we ganked the noob in his navy raven" not "weeeeeee that was fun, any survivors?" deidranna GM Eldini > Hi, behaving are we?
Deidranna SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2006.09.13 09:43:00 - [11] Edited by: Deidranna on 13/09/2006 09:43:46 grrr -.- GM Eldini > Hi, behaving are we?
Xeaon Minmatar A.W.M	Posted - 2006.09.13 09:46:00 - [12] Originally by: KIAEddZ Its all trap and bait :( ( Agreed, that's the main problem imo. The only way to get a fight nowadays is if someone makes a mistake and agresses so you can warp your gang in ontop of them ------------ Originally by: Righteous Fury Eve is not about the old preying on the new, its about the smart preying on the utterly incompetent.
Wild Rho Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.09.13 09:56:00 - [13] Personally I blame kill mails as they seem to have created a Kill/Death mentality where people seem more worried about this ratio than any real ship loss. Another aspect is that there are alot more players in Eve now so it is easier to blob up than before. WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your ass will be laminated. - Jennie Marlboro
shakaZ XIV Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.13 10:05:00 - [14] Quote: I'm an older player, but I don't think it's so much to do with age as it's to do with your attitude. Taking nostalgia too far can ruin the game for you QFT Imo the current situation is not that bad at all. It's still pretty easy to get a good fight most of the time, you just have to find enemies who also WANT to fight. But they do exist. I find that a lot of people just look at local, count 20 hostiles while they got 10 in their own gang and go "omg they don't fight our much smaller gang!", while half of those hostiles are probably afk or alts, or don't have the appropriate ships, and so on. It's just not realistic to expect every hostile character in a system to form into a gang and come fight you. About the solo thingie in anything other than vaga/ceptor: that's just complete bs, you just need to predict enemy movements + have some luck if you are flying slower ships, but that's not too hard most of the time. Sure, you get camped in by a much bigger group sometimes, but **** happens. It's unrealistic to expect to "get away with it" 100% of the time. We (BOB) got loads of hostile people flying around Delve at their leisure, and it's pretty hard to do anything about it 24/7, we just hope to get a lucky gank on them once in a while if they screw up but it's by no means a water tight defence as that is simply not possible in this game. Atleast not without OmgNoLifeÖ effort. I'm sure it's the same for other alliances when we fly around their space. I personally don't feel that the game was "much better" in the past, in fact I think it's very well balanced out at the moment, except for POS gamemechanics and the lag that goes along with them.
Logan Xerxes Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.13 10:08:00 - [15] Originally by: Wild Rho Personally I blame kill mails as they seem to have created a Kill/Death mentality where people seem more worried about this ratio than any real ship loss. Another aspect is that there are alot more players in Eve now so it is easier to blob up than before. I agree, it's the same reason why Battlefield2 isn't as good as Desert Combat. People becomee obsessed with stats rather than the damn game, and don't take risks. Remove kill/deathmails! "Draw them in with the prospect of gain, take them by confusion." -Sun Tzu It's all fun and games, until you feel the second hand on your shoulder... - Tirg
pershphanie Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.13 10:08:00 - [16] /signed
Rexthor Hammerfists Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.13 10:09:00 - [17] its pretty hard to get good fights these days, very true - im nto sure why that is tho. the last good action i had was the dice/bnc fight vs celes/outbreak, and those fights were mainly bs sniping each other with dictor bubbles to scramble, using hacs is inefficiant these days, its just more firepower through bs.. boring. i blame the pos warfare, and the problems it brings, like the huge lag u get when u attack a pos, dreadnoughts and their designs which requiere huge fleets to b protected - preferably a huge enough fleet so no1 bothers to attack you, etc. and ofc, the stupid high t2 prices, like 15m for a t2 425mm railgun, which makes losses way too harsh imo. i put my hope into kali, maybe bringin a system to reduce the t2 prices to somewhat reasonable levels, and change pos`s, from minor changes which are so important like random reeinforcetimer to complete soverignty changes. the hope dies at last ;) - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
Sherio Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.13 10:18:00 - [18] /signed
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.09.13 10:27:00 - [19] Just accept it and fight the odds anyway, when you pull it off its great! Sounds like you're bored of it to me, you're probably in denial. "Eve was far better back in the day", was it really? Or are you just bored of the game. I always used to think the old counterstrike betas were far better than the post beta 5.2 patches but in hindsight they just weren't. It was simpily me getting bored to death of the game. Take a break!
Taurequis Waylander 01	Posted - 2006.09.13 10:33:00 - [20] Hi, My two pet hates.... POS warfare and the need to blob in a way the servers can handle. Killboards - The kill/loss chest beating ratio. Taur
Darken Two Gallente Generals Of Destruction Syndicate Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.09.13 10:44:00 - [21] I think its the market tahts really affecting PvP. High prices and low availability means people are just too scared to lose their ships. What CCP needs to do is nudge the markets a little and also make 0.0 a little more rewarding so we can have all out conflict again. Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
Earthan Gallente GREY COUNCIL R i s e	Posted - 2006.09.13 10:56:00 - [22] Agreed Hamatito to your points , i also preffered old style pvp but i adopted to vchanges and still have fun:) I think one of biggest mistake was tech 2 ammo insane range, fighting should ocur at maximum range of ~100km max, then its more fun , tacklers have more to do. Aslo im big fan of increasing structure of ships like 3-4 times... - Grey Council military officer,Rise Wing Commander. Grey Council webpage
Phrixus Zephyr Singularity.	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:06:00 - [23] The way i get fights atm is to take a ceptor into 30-70+ hub system's and take as many of them down before i either die or get blobed. Namely ISS, ASCN, POS, Distant Star systems. Even then its 'gank the miner' and hope some of 'ceptor/frigate pilots are retarded enough to take me on, on their own. We don't take anything bigger out of our system mainly because we'll only get outblobbed. The only decent gang fights we get is when someone comes to us and we work out how to fight them with what we've got.
pershphanie Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:06:00 - [24] Originally by: Darken Two I think its the market tahts really affecting PvP. High prices and low availability means people are just too scared to lose their ships. I think its all relative. If it takes you 2 hours of money making to buy a ship do you really want to bring it into a fight where it can die in one volley without anything you can do about it? Ofc not. If it took you 2 hours of money making to buy a ship would you want to bring it into a fight where both sides slugged it out for several hours where you had some control over if you live or die? Hell yes. Even if you lose the ship its still worth it if you get a long epic fight out of it.
Major Tarsis Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:08:00 - [25] Edited by: Major Tarsis on 13/09/2006 11:11:19 Fleets seem to be formed these days to only for one basic reason. They are formed to protect some form of POS warfare. These days either a fleet is formed to support a POS destruction or protect their deployment (mainly the first). However with the insane LAG and damage a POS can inflict (if setup with guns) fighting at a POS is basically suiciding a fleet and no fun what so ever. Rarely do fights happen just for fights. They all seem to happen due to POSes (mainly due to the soveignity issue) I do miss the fights at stations where the defenders were charging shields etc while a hostile force could come into attack them (i.e. no POS guns going to insta-pop a BS). Now fights are arranged or avoided by the amount of stontium a POS has or errors and spies knocking out POSes so more POS spam can happen in oppersite timezones. MT
WETRAIN Minmatar Solidline Enterprise	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:14:00 - [26] /signed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - When the People are Ready the Master will come. - D R S -
wierchas noobhunter Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:19:00 - [27] /signed eve is broken ... Hey i get paid to be ebil - Xorus So how much you want for the ebil goat??-Tirg I don't - Imz0r
Shadowsword Gallente COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:22:00 - [28] Originally by: Taurequis Hi, My two pet hates.... POS warfare and the need to blob in a way the servers can handle. Killboards - The kill/loss chest beating ratio. Taur /signed, but I'd add a few things: - The gap between the big alliances and the smaller ones is growing too large: it's a well know fact that money bring more money, and that's what happens. The bulk of the T2 industry is in the hands of the big alliances, hurting them become nearly impossible, and there come a point where this gap push small alliances to side with the big ones rather than try to dispute their power. Power blocks emerge, but they won't fight each other like alliances used to. (this is also, imho, in no small part due to pos warfare) - Isks doesn't mean much nowadays. I lose my T2 fitted BS? No big sweat, I'll spend 3 hours ratting or mission whoring and I'll have made up my loss. I remember a time where I needed something like 4 days worth of my playing time to replace a T1 fitted BS. That was when NPC battleships were a relatively rare thing in poor 0.0 regions. At the time a dual 1M BS spawn was the very best you could reasonably expect to find, and those spawn were way harder to tank than the triple BS spawns you find a lot today. At that time, losing a BS was something to speak about, so, by extension, killing one was semothing. 18 months ago, a 50 vs 50 fleet fight had an Epic dimension, that a 100 vs 100 fight of today doesn't have. Now you need a capital vs capital to get that feeling back... ------------------------------------------ Nuhwall: Why are some Amarr ships warping backward? Shadowsword: whatever happen, if they need to flee they can honestly say the faced the enemy.
C4w3 Minmatar Phantom Squad iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:24:00 - [29] I had a discussion last night with Phonix and some oldies Hast and homies in a chan. Resulting in me actually wanted to post my personal rant ;0) you beat me to it.... hehe Well here is my 5 cents. ISK = Money sink? at this point of time there is no real risk losing anything not even a pimped out mach issue mega raven and so forth. ppl are filthy rich. Dont even get me started on getting targets, it¦s just lame beyond imagination. Fleet battles, well as a mini pilot 150 km + sniping is co0l and all but by god how boring, remembering the awsome days in providence with Sally che, and the fighting in venal or fountain with SPVD, mo0 Forsaken and that i called PVP battles .... almost crying losing you shiny Tempest or scorp..... having to go 60 some jumps back home ... POS are BROKE, POS wars SUCKS, Read Seleens posts about it pretty much says it all, i cant freekin explain, to drunk atm ;0) Solo PVP well it¦s notting such as solo called in eve no more, just ganks imho. I say ROLLBACK to Castor .......... Now im gonna go sleep. Flame away. And i DO NOT care about spelling gramma or anything like that, all i care about are drugs alcohol and Females. C4 --> OUT. "If all the heroes are standing together around a strange device and begin to taunt me, I¦ll just kill em all!"
Earthan Gallente GREY COUNCIL R i s e	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:25:00 - [30] agree here imho just after castor pvp was best. - Grey Council military officer,Rise Wing Commander. Grey Council webpage

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